Jeff Cumberbatch – Chairman of the FTC and Deputy Dean, Law Faculty, UWI, Cave Hill

We are a people given to indulging in a public orgy of lamentation, mock horror and indignation each time there is a report of some act of violence perpetrated on an individual. Truth to tell however, violence appears to be hardwired into our DNA. That assertion might explain partially why we are so ready to suggest “he/she could only want beating” as an appropriate remedy for some slight or the other, why despite having solemnly ratified an international treaty that provides otherwise, we are so reluctant to abandon the use of violence towards children in the form of corporal punishment, and why cyber images of the wanton after school battery of some hapless child can go “viral” in a period of one afternoon. It is this last that I refer to as school violence.

The dark period of slavery has influenced our cultural traits in more ways than several. Aping the ways of the master might explain why in a nation where most citizens are of blackish hue, some are frequently referred to pejoratively as being “too black”, or ridiculed for the excessive Africanity of their facial features. It has also, according to some, influenced the nature of our current infirmities, the CNCDs, through generations of malnutrition by the consumption of over fatty and too salty foods that were provided for our ancestors. This mimicry might have also extended to the way we treat those who dis’ us in some way either through dis (respect) or dis (obedience). The nature of the master-slave relation back then would not have possibly contemplated an amicable resolution of a similar incident through polite social discourse. Rather, the whip would have been immediately unhung from its nail and the offender punished to within an inch of his or her life…sometimes. Or some other of those inhuman punishments that have been chronicled would certainly have ensued.

There will be those who will disagree with my equation of that cruel conduct with the present day acts of violence we exhibit towards each other and towards infants in school. Of course the one is not the mirror image of the other, but I am not making that point. I am positing rather that our cultural penchant for mimicking the master causes us to react in a similar way to the extent that we are legally free to do so only.

And to the suggestion that the corporal punishment of infant pupils in school is not and cannot be classified as violence, I respond that such a view might be valid only in a context where the concept is itself to be defined by the perpetrator. In other words, we claim that corporal punishment is not violence, because of an amalgam of the apparent intention of the flogger, his or her motive for executing the punishment, the statutory licence to do so and the milieu in which the punishment is carried out. What if we were to define violence through the perspective of the victim as we do in numerous other contexts? To the child is it any less an insult to his or her physical integrity because a teacher is the one carrying it out even if the child has engaged in misconduct?

In law, the tort of battery – the intentional infliction of unlawful force to the person of another requires an element of “hostility” in order for it to be unlawful and thus actionable. Most laypersons would at once assume that this requirement mandates an intention to inflict violence on the part of the batterer. It does not. “Hostile” has been construed to mean simply, “adverse to the interest of the victim” or without his or her implied or express consent. So that an unwanted kiss may be hostile and while being jostled and pulled by the other would-be commuters when engaged in pushing to board the ‘last’ bus might satisfy the element of the intentional application of force to one’s person, there would be no actionable battery since you would be taken to have at least impliedly consented to any force that might have been inflicted on you in such a crush.

As a youngster of about 8 or 9, I saw a young man “beating” his girlfriend. He did not beat her as he might have beaten another male who chose to retaliate; indeed his effort more resembled some exotic dance as he slapped her face ever so gently and occasionally raised his leg to knee her in the groin, all the while with a look of mild embarrassment on his face and ignoring her tearful pleas for him to stop. He never raised his voice above a murmur, he never swung a fist at her…he simply frustrated her interest in physical integrity until she cried. Was this the enigmatic infliction of punishment with love that the protagonists of corporal punishment in schools go on about? Was he violent? Were his actions hostile?

Vicarious parental responsibility

As one expected consequence of the virality and repugnance of the video clip portraying the horrific battery of the young female pupil last week, criminal charges have been laid against the perpetrators. The Honourable Attorney General, Mr Adriel Brathwaite QC, MP has also suggested that there might be another. He is reported to have stated in reaction, “I’ve been championing changing our juvenile legislation to make not just the juvenile accountable, but also the parents accountable…”

This notion of holding the parent accountable for the sins or wrongs of their children is likely to resonate with the self-righteously indignant in our fair land who are quick to condemn pharisaically the failings of other while ignoring the beam in theirs.

As a matter of law however, it will require legislative intervention since the concept of parental vicarious liability is unknown to our common law. According to an article in the New York Times, there has been the enactment of such legislation in some of the states in the US –an Idaho law authorizes courts to require parents to pay detention costs for a juvenile; in West Virginia the parents of a child that has defaced a public building may be held liable for up to $3, 000 in fines; and in Louisiana, parents can be found guilty of improper supervision of a minor and both fined and confined if their child associates with a convicted felon, drug dealer or members of a street gang. Clearly this last is not a true vicarious liability; the parents are themselves in default of their personal duty to supervise the child.

And in fact, Barbados has already legislated similarly. According to section 64B of the Education Act, Cap. 41-

“A pupil who wilfully damages or destroys school property or the property of any person lawfully on the school premises is guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to fine of $500, if he is under the age of 16 years, or, if he is 16 years of age or older, to such fine or to imprisonment for 3 months or both.

(2) The Court before which a pupil referred to in subsection (1) is tried may, in accordance with section 120 of the Magistrates Jurisdiction and Procedure Act, order the parent of that pupil to pay compensation for the destruction or damage caused.”

Despite its populist allure, this concept has not been met with acclaim by all those concerned with its administration. “Most of these laws are a complete waste of time”, avers the president of the US National Council on Crime and Delinquency. “It’s country club criminology. It sounds good in the suburbs but it’s an empty threat because if you carry it out you just further endanger and pull apart families…”

This caveat apart, the notion of vicarious parental responsibility is also decidedly unbiblical. According to Deuteronomy 24:16 [KJV]

“The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.”

It would be of interest to hear those Barbadians who advocate strict adherence to Biblical injunction offer their views on the AG’s current proposals.

Second, the imposition of vicarious liability ordinarily requires justification because generally the law punishes an individual for his or her misconduct only. In a case where it may be established that the parent negligently supervised the child as in the Louisiana statute cited above liability should naturally follow.

Are the parents now to be held absolutely liable because their child, notwithstanding their best efforts, indulged in misbehavior causing damage? We should think about it some more.

109 responses to “The Jeff Cumberbatch Column – Violence and Parental Responsibility”


  1. Surprised at how well Jeff stumbled through this minefield without blowing himself up. He has skillfully handled a few topics that drives the average Barbadian insane.

    I like the fact that (1) he avoided the ‘it is happening everywhere else, so it can happen here’ refrain and (2) he did not advocate beating the child until he/she is senseless and (3) he did not call for putting parents before firing squads….

    Once I got over the DNA hump, I was fine. A scholarly man like Jeff has to realize that his audience may be wider than Barbados and some racist elements will feast on parts of his essays that is line with their message of racial …..

    Excellente


  2. Very good read.

  3. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger

    Yeah Ha, Ha Austin…tell us what you have done in the last 40 years to rid the UK of it’s sodomites and slavery society, the same society ya ran to for your very survival, the same Sodom & Gomorrah Barbados remains dependent on for their sodomite tourists because of weak men like you who stubbornly refuse to be intelligent and continue to depend on the same sodomites from UK, Canada and US posing as tourists, most of whom just go into the island annually for cheap sexual thrills from minors both male and female and young people………like Lawson and his talk of him and other Canadiàns putting money in stripper’s bikinis….and how would he know if he was not there.

    Ya should form a movement to ban Sodomites from the island to keep it pure, Ha, Ha…..maybe ya can get Greenville Phillips t help ya.

  4. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger

    Lawson….next time ya go into Bim buying strippers…ah hope the police raid the club and put ya face on he front page of the nation…lol

  5. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger

    Lawson….I cannot even go into the Loblaws withou tt ssme cute Canadian dude who is not a store employee following me to aslk me out, you should be familiar with the bisexuals.


  6. @ Enuff
    Very good read
    ++++++++++++++
    Meaning what…?!?
    That you understood all the words…?

    …or you just like the fact that Jeff cussing Bushie …again…?
    LOL
    🙂

  7. Bernard Codrington. Avatar
    Bernard Codrington.

    @ Bush Tea 3 :13 PM

    You are in full flight today. You have made this piece more entertaining and enlightening than I first expected.

    Barbados has not lost her moral compass .It is just that a few of us want to be in the chapel and the church at the same time. It reminds me of the prophet Hosea who likened the Israelites’ behaviour to that of a woman of easy virtue. But we are not on sale nor for sale. The moral majority will take the high road.


  8. @Bernard

    You appreciate there is a price that the moral majority will have to pay? Read the Oregon killings.


  9. Well Well if they following you at the grocery store it is to make sure you aint lifting something. I can understand your concerns of morale decay it wasn’t that long ago a study showed that 86 % of bajans have had sex in the shower the other 14 % claimed not to have been in jail.

  10. Bernard Codrington. Avatar
    Bernard Codrington.

    @ David @ 4: 24 PM

    Yes. And many of us are prepared to pay the price. Virtue has value . Price is irrelevant.

    @ Lawson at 4:28 PM

    Sex inside or outside of the shower is not a sin or the moral issue. Morality is much wider than that. In the Genesis story Adam and Eve obviously thought nakedness was the issue. And God asked them “Who told you you were naked?”


  11. @Bernard

    There is a nuance of the USA (North American) society where patriotism is stoked inculcated from early i.e. history teaching etc. We don’t have that and it is not something you talk.

  12. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger

    Lawson does not think when he carries his Canadian boy or girl stripper buying practices to Barbados, he is contributing to prostitution and moral decay of the island, he sees it as contributing to the economy, just like the holier than thou dummy Ha, Ha Austin.

    Hey Lawson…….look at what they are sayimg about ya embarrassment for a boyfriend’s supporters…lol, lol, haha haha. 

    “Are Trump Supporters Too Dumb To Know They’re Dumb? Science Says “Probably”
    By Rika Christensen on January 25, 2017 7:53 pm ·
    How the hell can anybody call themselves intelligent when they’re supporting Donald Trump? It’s a question that baffles people who are able to think critically, able to read and comprehend both history and current events, and able to see through Trump’s thin façade of know-it-all-ism and deep into what he is – an ignorant, narcissistic, and dangerous conman.

    Trump supporters not only don’t see this, they’re happy that there’s someone running for president that thinks exactly like them. Take Melanie Austin, of Brownsville, Pennsylvania. She thought her beliefs about Obama being a gay Muslim from Kenya and Michelle being transgender were just fringe beliefs – right up until she started hearing similar stuff from Trump and other right-wing extremists.”

  13. angela Skeete Avatar

    Hal for your information barbadianism is dying as laws determined to include gives invitations to other races to vecome a part of the barbados landscape. If that is good or bad remains to be seen.
    The one problem is see apparent is that barbadians are quick willing to assimilate with other cultures

  14. Bernard Codrington. Avatar
    Bernard Codrington.

    @ David at 4:56 PM

    Is that really so ? History was a subject at the primary schools,secondary schools and university until recently.
    Patriotism is embedded in our National Pledge and the National Anthem. We pray in the mainstream churches every Sunday for our Governor General and Government.
    English literature and our theatres put on plays which act as a mirror for us to examine and critique or behaviours.
    The news papers and Blogs etc give us a sense of who we are and where we want to go. How do you rate the outrage at the daily occurrences in our society. We bajans do not jump and wave . We do what we have to do. We are not Americans.


  15. @Bernard

    That is some idealistic verbiage.

  16. Bernard Codrington. Avatar
    Bernard Codrington.

    Yes . We have to start with ideals. Our ideals not a copycat foreign generated ideals. And yes we have to verbalize them. Unlike someothers, we were trained at home and in schools to set our own targets . Not to follow pattern. In recent times too many external persons are setting the agenda for Barbados. Is that being independent? David it is time for you to get idealistic and stop following brass bowls.

  17. angela Skeete Avatar

    Barbadians still living in a world of make belive with their heads buried deep beneath the earth and their asses stick high in the air. While barbadians kick and scream the world swiftly passes them giving no notice or attention to their noises


  18. I have often said trump supporters are dumb who else would put their lives and blood on the line to save peoples around the world while the politicos and hollywood types hide their kids from going to defend the principals that america stands for. I would like to see trump bring back the draft , watch the sycophants run then, all the movies would have english subtitles. Hey I saw the pictures of all the leaders huddling and talking shop and your boyfriend given a time out. Putz


  19. Brilliant contributions from Jeff and the Bushman.I am of the view that a good cutass is an apt remedy at times.Why even Tony Blair got his ass cut in 6 th form.Six of the best too and he never looked back.One of the more successful Prime Ministers of Great Britain until he allowed George Bush( no relative of the aforementioned Bushman)to mislead him into getting Britain involved in the Iraq Quagmire.You have to know when to hit and run.The former cop Johnny Salt Bags had a remedy for the criminally minded.He was a wizard on his feet,something like Bolt and when he caught up with you,he delivered 6 of the best with his bull pistle.Those were the days when the police commanded respect.Nowaday, the criminal have rights.

  20. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger

    Lawson….ya just jealous.

  21. William Skinner Avatar
    William Skinner

    Its amazing how highly intelligent citizens can believe that brutality is the answer to anti-social behaviour. Bring the cane; bring the hangman; bring the bull pistle; bring the cat o nine. Seems we have not traveled too far from the 1930s/40s. Contrary to popular opinion, societies dont deteriorate overnight. Every generation presents new challenges and we keep harping back to nostalgia , fooling ourselves that we had these great societies when every cut ass solved every problem. That is pure hogwash.
    Flogging and inflicting unusual discomfort on children is battery and abuse. When a mother takes up a piece of two by three and beats up her child that is not discipline. That is pure physical abuse. When a headmaster beats an entire class for the actions of ONE pupil that cannot be proper justice.
    We are displaying the same knee jerk reactions that we blame the political class for . We can pop necks forever the guns will still be there. We can beat up children and the problems at the school plants will still be there. Previous generations or those from which I suspect many of the promoters of violence against children on BU, come from were never exposed to drugs. Hiding to smoke cigarettes and getting a taste of rum were our main transgressions. The barefoot boy stood in line with the boy that had shoes and the peer pressure was not there to wear jordans or carry the books in $300 backpacks. There was no television, scarcely a daily newspaper and a fellow with a new bicycle was where the man driving the BMW is today.
    Come on people wake up, the world did not wait on us and we have to start addressing what is now and not what was.
    Every single day I see , read and hear of the majority of our youth trying hard to do positive things. We have many young entrepreneurs with ideas who cannot get a lift up. Yet we determine that the children have demons and every young woman wants to be pregnant. The majority of young people are not sitting on the block smoking weed neither is the majority of our young women out there looking for sex.
    I refuse to join political misfits who are now declaring that my country is the global leader in deviancy. Many of them on BU are just being completely dishonest because in their vile way, they would prefer to see Barbados on its needs to serve the BLPDLP. They dont give a bad penny about their country. A crying disgusting shame.

  22. William Skinner Avatar
    William Skinner

    Should read :Barbados on its knees………………


  23. Angela,
    I have witnessed the experiment in assimilation in London. It has failed. In London we have a number of communities all living in their own little boxes. That is fine for the UK, I hope we do not o down that road in Barbados.
    Anyone who comes to Barbados should accept the Barbadian way of life or leave. Presumably that is the reason why they want to live in Barbados.

  24. angela Skeete Avatar

    There will always be those in society who would advocate lashing because there are unable to see the world beyond the shoe box size that they have envisioned in there mind. To them Barbados is there only world and rather than fix an issue they pretend as that any social problem barbados face can be easily solved using yesterday old methods.
    Take bushtea for example he still clings to his dearly beloved whacker as the corrective method to keep people on the straight and narrow how many individuals has he been able to correct my guess is none.
    Some of the social problems homes encounter today are so complex and rooted by influences that they would need more than a whacker to unearth
    What is missing is the moral code and standards that older generations revered and use as a standard bearer to mould and shape their children
    Many households in most of todays societies frown on morals and most has accepted the independent way of thinking to be the right and only way to process information
    When morals remain obsolete and absoluteness remains continues to be the standard bearer for correct methods all hell will continue to break out
    Unfortunately morals cannot be legalised and for better or worse society has been left to determined what is right from what is wrong at their own peril


  25. Hal exactly there are many places to immigrate to with every possible law that will accommodate you. Want to smoke dope go to Netherlands want to live under sharia many to choose from ,want to drive on the right side of the road canada maybe your choice but when you choose one assimilate and obey current laws otherwise you are coming under false pretenses.and should be booted out


  26. @Hal Austin at 3:54 AM ….for a man of your background you categorize stuff in often most perplexing ways.

    It’s a given surely that ‘assimilation’ with immigrants never works exactly as planned. There clearly will be a melting-pot multicultural vibe in cities with immigrant communities but our basic ethnocentric, clannish nature invariably manifests itself.

    It is not only London that will have it’s Little Italy, Chinatown, West Indian nave, Little Warsaw or its ‘Kremlin Korner’ et al.

    Can BIM avoid that…. yes and no. We are so small that carving out ethnic communities may be less ‘visible’ but surely people will gravitate to their areas of comfort and support..at least initially….thus East Indians previously made the areas around Kensington somewhat of an enclave.

    Immigrants embrace their new countries but they want to savour something of their old too…the immigration experience must be heralded for his positives and the negatives buried and left behind!

  27. angela Skeete Avatar

    USA is a good example of assimilation however for USA citizens predominately black it was a rude and awakening experience mostly because the blacks were being giving the shitty end of the stick in preference to a new breed of foreigners who were already socially and psychologically prepared to do whatever it takes to make better of their lives after much having to experience in their home lands poverty triggered by high unemployment and social decay
    Can barbados a tiny island without much of any productive resources play as close on the same assimilation play field like america , i doubt that and be expected to welcome all with open arms
    It took american citizens many years to accept that assimilation was meant to produce an america as an example for other countries to follow which was easier said than done that even after all these years many in the black race still seem to be offended as they struggle for survival in their own country which seem to be taken over by foreigners


  28. @ Skinner May 29, 2017 at 1:18 AM….you spoke well in your post but as usual with these debates there is always a conflation and confusion with abuse.

    As you stated “When a mother takes up a piece of two by three and beats up her child that is not discipline.” That is a criminal offense. Has nothing to do with parental discipline.

    But what I wanted to highlight was the statement “When a headmaster beats an entire class for the actions of ONE pupil that cannot be proper justice.”

    You know well that team discipline or esprit de corps is crucial for success in military teams, for example a patrol of SEALS or RANGERS, It is not uncommon in that environment to establish a unity of purpose – one for all, one for all – by demanding team ownership of mishaps and member behavior with collective discipline.

    The intent obviously is to ensure the team works c
    ohesively to strengthen any weak link or correct missteps.

    The principal’s flogging may be considered harsh or wrong if one disagrees with flogging but the concept is actually a well trodden leadership model.


  29. Lawson, absolutely. Why come to Britain, for example, then try to turn it in to part of the Caliphate, as is the case? If that is what you want, then stay at home.
    @ Angela, absolutely, you are spot on. The New Communities settle in the new countries with one thing in mind: they are higher up the pecking order than the blacks. Just look at the Eastern Europeans in Britain.
    I come back to something I have said here before: the relationship between blacks and Europeans is not perfect, but far better than it is with other ethnic groups.

  30. angela Skeete Avatar

    Hal i am not making this stuff up recently i traveled and in one of the airports which was employed by predominately blacks in the early seventies and onward i was aghast to find that the latinos had replaced every single black in employment and btw the command of the latinos english language was despicable to say the least and communication skills left a jaw dropping response of WTF (excuse my manner of speak ) . I am saying that to show that the concept of assimilation can be problematic especially if govts refuse or ignore the plight of their own people while giving outsiders the first hand treatment
    Their is order and process which should work together with intelligent thinking bringing what is known as an orderly process
    I just could not help but to think that the blacks in that country had the patience of Job while their livelihoods were being stolen from right under their noses
    Barbados a small country and limited resources ! well id not know how the country would face a deluge of immigrants from other territories when they can least afford to take care of their own


  31. Angela,
    You are preaching to the converted. Just look at the low skilled jobs in London and you will see the number of Southern and Eastern Europeans doing those jobs. Bangladeshis have even removed blacks as cleaners.
    But Bajans are stubborn and believe it would not happen here. Wait until the Muslims have infiltrated themselves in key positions then we will see what they are really like.
    Don’t be like Britain.


  32. A lot of Bajans prefer to beat the crap out of their children than waste time talking to them and guiding them.

    It is easy for teachers to beat OTHER people’s children especially the ones whose skin don’t show welts and bruises.
    Too besides there are some teachers who relish the opportunity to take out the frustrations they brought from home, on the backsides of the children they are supposed to teach.


  33. I see the buffoons running the criminal justice system in Barbados have now charged a 13 yr old girl in connection with the school fight. There is no difference between this serious abuse of authority and someone deciding that since crime is in your DNA the state will put you in prison from birth. Are Bajans the most silly people in the Caribbean?

  34. Vincent Haynes Avatar
    Vincent Haynes

    FINLAND……Teaching of the future????

    https://www.facebook.com/bbcnews/videos/1462276533835409/


  35. There is something inherently wrong with charging minors. As a society we are failing. Understand they have to send a message but it does not change the reality of the situation.


  36. David,
    It speaks to our humanity. A good session between the head of the school and parents would more than resolve this problem; if the kids continue to give trouble then you escalate it. This is the nuclear option – typically Bajan. I am surprised they did not execute them. And they are those who would stupidly think this is the right thing to do.

  37. Vincent Haynes Avatar
    Vincent Haynes

    We have to change our method of dealing with and educating the Nations children,we need to learn to adapt in changing times with newer tools.

  38. angela Skeete Avatar

    Listen up folks this was not just an ordinary after school fight between two children this was an assault not by one or two but by many on one defenseless child.Some how individuals here are in denial as to the nature and act of the violence prepetrated on the victims body with an intent to do serious bodily harm. What if in the process of this violence the victim had died would the outpouring of the bleeding hearts be the same
    Folks this was not a movie or an act intended for movie. Here we have a victim and family members who would have to suffer long term consequences because of a senseless act andhere we have the bleeding hearts crying for the prepetrator of the crime instead of justice for the victim.
    What if it was your child who was kicked bruised and brutally assaulted in a sensless manner to the ground by ruthless chuldren would your heart be crying out for special favours on the behalf of those who had violated your child life
    I do not think so


  39. Children today are considered more ‘brazen’ than children of say the 50’s.The effrontery and the fear of the consequences of one’s actions in the two periods are completely different.We live in very liberal times with all kinds of electronic gadgets which expose children to hitherto unknown or concealed knowledge.The grannies and aunties and stay home neighbours seem a thing of the past.It seems to me that the “yes please mistress” kind of fawning condescending hand downs from the plantation economy are over and done with.Expect these youngsters to stand up for their rights until such time as it becomes the norm that respect has always been and should always be a two way street,so that no jackass minister of government would expect me to kowtow to him or her especially when I know they are thieving corrupt liars among the gods of Bay St.led by a man who neither sees, hears nor believes that any of his ministers are on the take.


  40. Angela,

    Get real. Rid yourself of the Bajan fascism.


  41. The presence of video recording devices has turned the simple fisticuff into combat between two gladiators. Even when one opponent is down and out, the other combatant presses home the advantage as he/she seeks to increase the number of viewers and to have the video go viral.

    Comparing the society of yesteryear with that of today is a comparison of unequals. Yesterday, there was little or no viewership and stories were told mainly by word of mouth. Today, a video made in Bridgetown can be accessible to a person in Bejing in a matter of seconds.

    Our actions are influenced by our technology; the simple fight is now seem as an opportunity to showcase the savage beast.


  42. In case, someone may think of it……preventing upload of fights to the internet will not stop school children from fighting 🙂

  43. angela Skeete Avatar

    Hal fascism what? the penalty must fit the crime and by law assault and battery is a crime and the assault done to victim body fits like a glove into the legal parameters of a criminal act on the victims body
    No i am not calling for a severe penalties so harsh that in the long term the consequences hurt and harm rather than send teachable message e.g maybe in the area of community service helping the elderly or even programs that would give them a view of how life behind bars can wreck their lives putting these children directly into the area to see for themselves,
    There can also be required to active in after school programs that teach crime and violence also the parents should be required to be part of any or all of these programs
    There are many areas and programs that these children can be given a second chance on life to stay on the straight and narrow
    However one cannot forget the victim first and foremost and the state duty to act on hers and the families behalf with a justice that would suffice them making them belief that there is ‘Real Justice ” which can serve a purpose to help and to heal,

  44. angela Skeete Avatar

    No Hal i do not tolerate or have sympathy for ruthless people and especially children been given a free pass because of age. if a lesson is not taught to these children after their first offence these children continue in lives journey to become adult bullies until one day the inevitable happens live behind bars or early death at the hands at someone who is more ruthless than them
    These children must be taught lessons lessons that would punish but give them a renew zeal for the respect of all life


  45. Angela, this is a 13 yr old appearing in court on an assault charge that, if convicted, will damage her for the rest of her life. Is that a fit penalty? This in a society that has lost its moral compass: in which teachers go on strike because of so-called sick building syndrome; for ridiculous pay rises; in which the minister of education was stopped by police for driving without road tax and motor insurance; in which the church, who should give moral guidance, remains silent when the nation is crying out for moral leadership.
    @Angela, step back from being a Bajan and see the incident in broader human terms. As to those talking about the old days, in the 1950s and 60s we threw stones at our rivals, murderous weapons. Not many of us, if any, appeared in court.
    All this in a society with magistrates (who try about 95 per cent of cases) are often badly educated and lack in proper training.
    For benefit of age is that we can look back and reflect; but if we are going to our graves with the same silly ideas of our youth then it is a life wasted.


  46. @Hal

    Debating the point you are trying to make is an exercise in futility. It is like converting a DLP yardfowl to support the BLP. Let us all agree that as a society we are doing something wrong to breed this kind of behaviour. We can also agree that 13 year olds have no place in our jails.


  47. Thanks, David.

  48. angela Skeete Avatar

    David if there is any top of the yard fowl breed that there is it would be you because nowhere in my comment do i ever advocate jail time for these children .
    by the way there is no bigger hypocrite than you

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