Jeff Cumberbatch – Chairman of the FTC and Deputy Dean, Law Faculty, UWI, Cave Hill

We are a people given to indulging in a public orgy of lamentation, mock horror and indignation each time there is a report of some act of violence perpetrated on an individual. Truth to tell however, violence appears to be hardwired into our DNA. That assertion might explain partially why we are so ready to suggest “he/she could only want beating” as an appropriate remedy for some slight or the other, why despite having solemnly ratified an international treaty that provides otherwise, we are so reluctant to abandon the use of violence towards children in the form of corporal punishment, and why cyber images of the wanton after school battery of some hapless child can go “viral” in a period of one afternoon. It is this last that I refer to as school violence.

The dark period of slavery has influenced our cultural traits in more ways than several. Aping the ways of the master might explain why in a nation where most citizens are of blackish hue, some are frequently referred to pejoratively as being “too black”, or ridiculed for the excessive Africanity of their facial features. It has also, according to some, influenced the nature of our current infirmities, the CNCDs, through generations of malnutrition by the consumption of over fatty and too salty foods that were provided for our ancestors. This mimicry might have also extended to the way we treat those who dis’ us in some way either through dis (respect) or dis (obedience). The nature of the master-slave relation back then would not have possibly contemplated an amicable resolution of a similar incident through polite social discourse. Rather, the whip would have been immediately unhung from its nail and the offender punished to within an inch of his or her life…sometimes. Or some other of those inhuman punishments that have been chronicled would certainly have ensued.

There will be those who will disagree with my equation of that cruel conduct with the present day acts of violence we exhibit towards each other and towards infants in school. Of course the one is not the mirror image of the other, but I am not making that point. I am positing rather that our cultural penchant for mimicking the master causes us to react in a similar way to the extent that we are legally free to do so only.

And to the suggestion that the corporal punishment of infant pupils in school is not and cannot be classified as violence, I respond that such a view might be valid only in a context where the concept is itself to be defined by the perpetrator. In other words, we claim that corporal punishment is not violence, because of an amalgam of the apparent intention of the flogger, his or her motive for executing the punishment, the statutory licence to do so and the milieu in which the punishment is carried out. What if we were to define violence through the perspective of the victim as we do in numerous other contexts? To the child is it any less an insult to his or her physical integrity because a teacher is the one carrying it out even if the child has engaged in misconduct?

In law, the tort of battery – the intentional infliction of unlawful force to the person of another requires an element of “hostility” in order for it to be unlawful and thus actionable. Most laypersons would at once assume that this requirement mandates an intention to inflict violence on the part of the batterer. It does not. “Hostile” has been construed to mean simply, “adverse to the interest of the victim” or without his or her implied or express consent. So that an unwanted kiss may be hostile and while being jostled and pulled by the other would-be commuters when engaged in pushing to board the ‘last’ bus might satisfy the element of the intentional application of force to one’s person, there would be no actionable battery since you would be taken to have at least impliedly consented to any force that might have been inflicted on you in such a crush.

As a youngster of about 8 or 9, I saw a young man “beating” his girlfriend. He did not beat her as he might have beaten another male who chose to retaliate; indeed his effort more resembled some exotic dance as he slapped her face ever so gently and occasionally raised his leg to knee her in the groin, all the while with a look of mild embarrassment on his face and ignoring her tearful pleas for him to stop. He never raised his voice above a murmur, he never swung a fist at her…he simply frustrated her interest in physical integrity until she cried. Was this the enigmatic infliction of punishment with love that the protagonists of corporal punishment in schools go on about? Was he violent? Were his actions hostile?

Vicarious parental responsibility

As one expected consequence of the virality and repugnance of the video clip portraying the horrific battery of the young female pupil last week, criminal charges have been laid against the perpetrators. The Honourable Attorney General, Mr Adriel Brathwaite QC, MP has also suggested that there might be another. He is reported to have stated in reaction, “I’ve been championing changing our juvenile legislation to make not just the juvenile accountable, but also the parents accountable…”

This notion of holding the parent accountable for the sins or wrongs of their children is likely to resonate with the self-righteously indignant in our fair land who are quick to condemn pharisaically the failings of other while ignoring the beam in theirs.

As a matter of law however, it will require legislative intervention since the concept of parental vicarious liability is unknown to our common law. According to an article in the New York Times, there has been the enactment of such legislation in some of the states in the US –an Idaho law authorizes courts to require parents to pay detention costs for a juvenile; in West Virginia the parents of a child that has defaced a public building may be held liable for up to $3, 000 in fines; and in Louisiana, parents can be found guilty of improper supervision of a minor and both fined and confined if their child associates with a convicted felon, drug dealer or members of a street gang. Clearly this last is not a true vicarious liability; the parents are themselves in default of their personal duty to supervise the child.

And in fact, Barbados has already legislated similarly. According to section 64B of the Education Act, Cap. 41-

“A pupil who wilfully damages or destroys school property or the property of any person lawfully on the school premises is guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to fine of $500, if he is under the age of 16 years, or, if he is 16 years of age or older, to such fine or to imprisonment for 3 months or both.

(2) The Court before which a pupil referred to in subsection (1) is tried may, in accordance with section 120 of the Magistrates Jurisdiction and Procedure Act, order the parent of that pupil to pay compensation for the destruction or damage caused.”

Despite its populist allure, this concept has not been met with acclaim by all those concerned with its administration. “Most of these laws are a complete waste of time”, avers the president of the US National Council on Crime and Delinquency. “It’s country club criminology. It sounds good in the suburbs but it’s an empty threat because if you carry it out you just further endanger and pull apart families…”

This caveat apart, the notion of vicarious parental responsibility is also decidedly unbiblical. According to Deuteronomy 24:16 [KJV]

“The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.”

It would be of interest to hear those Barbadians who advocate strict adherence to Biblical injunction offer their views on the AG’s current proposals.

Second, the imposition of vicarious liability ordinarily requires justification because generally the law punishes an individual for his or her misconduct only. In a case where it may be established that the parent negligently supervised the child as in the Louisiana statute cited above liability should naturally follow.

Are the parents now to be held absolutely liable because their child, notwithstanding their best efforts, indulged in misbehavior causing damage? We should think about it some more.

109 responses to “The Jeff Cumberbatch Column – Violence and Parental Responsibility”


  1. Careful now Jeff, prepare for a verbal backlash from the “Spare the rod and spoil the child” brigade.

  2. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger

    Great article Jeff.

    Authourities do not look at issues in a practical manner, that is why there is always massive blowback….no vision so they always self destruct and implode.


  3. This is so Flip Wilson …the devil made me do it …you may be on to something with that dna thing, since the vikings used to rule us ruthlessly years ago now every time I smell pickled herring I gag. It sounds like your saying in the second part ya knows the family.
    Ugly kids come from ugly parents if you dont believe it …follow an ugly kid home. Whoever said make the parents pay is right on at the least they will be more diligent in watching what there kids are doing.


  4. Jeff why do we allow the politicians (AG) to grab the narrative on these kinds of issues? Has he brought legislation to address the voting irregularities he and the PM alleged they witnessed post 2013 results? Has he brought the amendment to the domestic abuse act he promised the women? Has he returned to parliament to update the nation on Mia’s LEC?

    What window does he have to rollout all this legislation when they can’t get the Atiqueties Bill off the ground. Has the CPO received an influx of resources?

    #really


  5. Jeff would be well advised to stick with topics that he actually understands.
    This is not one…..

  6. Vincent Haynes Avatar
    Vincent Haynes

    Human beings from known history have shown themselves to be a violent species and one can only conclude that is part of our genetic construct that would require gene alteration.

    Violence….mans inhumanity to man…..has always existed all over the world and on the African continent through tribal warfare resulting in genocide,long before the trans-atlantic slave trade existed……some even posit that prior to that trade all the male captives of those wars were simply brutally killed and that the trade saved a number of lives.


  7. Jeff, as usual. Interesting and provocative. Can you expand on the ‘victim’ since I think it has direct implications for the perpetrator that is often missed. In that sense, the pool of victims are wider. Very complex issues in a human rights era.

  8. angela Skeete Avatar

    So the article ask some burning questions even suggesting that “we ” as a race are hard wired to violence which is in my mind is a an excuse based on stigma and not collectively based on fact
    The facts as pertaining to violence can be seen and heard across any race or culture where traits and culture differ and mental issues can be a triggering force
    How one treats violence cannot be a simple analogy base on a persons race or a method whereby one believes a history based on a past uncivilized society bears relevance and has damaged the social psychological balance of that race
    The problems of violence that children across the global are facing today are multifaceted and can be triggered by numerous forces
    The family unit has been decimated by and replaced by a new and extreme foreign way of life at a rapid speed forcing household to make changes in ways that older generations did not have to deal with adding additional burdens to families sending messages which are confusing to adults and children with ending results which society were not prepared to deal with
    Yes the violence of children is demonstrative of children seeking helping others looking for attention and parents themselves living and lost in a confused world having no solutions.
    So the AG looks for a solution which on the surface seems fair minded as it in itself seems to give some remedy to the victims and family calls for justice . However the burning questions of how WE as a society prepare ourselves and find those solutions that necessitate corrective method resulting for the extreme fall out of a fast and changing world with negative fallout which has entered our daily lives remains to be seen

  9. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    Jeff would be well advised to stick with topics that he actually understands.
    This is not one…..

    @ Bush Tea, trust not to thine own limited understanding. Bombast is no substitute for knowledge!

  10. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    Careful now Jeff, prepare for a verbal backlash from the “Spare the rod and spoil the child” brigade.

    @ Sarge, let them gather…so shall they scatter!


  11. It is a truth that Barbadian culture is aggressive normally, and potentially violent. This is true at every age group. But to suggest this may be rooted in slavery is a bit much; it is s learned behaviour, not biological, although some so-called neuro-criminologists are now suggesting that violence may be rooted in ur frontal lobes; but they are also saying that poverty may also have long-term biological effects on us.
    We got to be careful of these biological/genetic explanations of anti-social behaviour. Remember we are not very far away from Lombroso’s explanation of criminal behaviour and of the Second World War in which Hitler thought there was a Final Solution.
    It is a very short step from such thoughts to state intervention to stop the mentally impaired and genetically violent from reproducing.
    It is also untenable to focus on individual blame when the biggest practitioners of violence is the state, from armed police to nuclear weapons to capital punishment.
    A responsible parent disciplining a child is not the same as a knife or gun attack in a back street or gang attack. To give the two acts moral equivalence is intellectually dishonest.
    Law is a social construct, and the tort of individual violence serves a wider social purpose, including the prevention of anarchy.
    The specific case of the young people shown on an internet video fighting is a good case of the abuse of the power of the state to label and criminalise.
    No one is explaining away the behaviour of the young people, but there is a wider social responsibility on the part of the state, and that is not to criminalise our young people. The prosecution authorities and the police have found themselves in a moral panic and have gone overboard.
    What happened should have been resolved between the parents and the school, with the school head having the authority to suspend the guilty party.
    If found guilty they would have effectively destroyed the future careers of those young people, not only that, they would also have blocked off any escape route for those people since with criminal convictions for violence they would not ab allowed to visit, far less live, in certain countries.
    To remand one of the accused in custody only amplifies the problem. Ironically, it is another manifestation of the state using aggressive behaviour in order to curb aggressive behaviour.
    Young people learn from adults: their parents and neighbours, their teachers and those at the commanding heights of society. With a trade union such as the BSTU, led by Mary Redman, it is my impression that the children are remarkably restraint in their behaviour.
    The problem with having the current attorney general is that he is either reluctant to intellectually defend his positions, or jut cannot.
    Whatever the outcome, we must not allow a moral panic to lead to the widespread criminalisation of our young people. This is snot the answer to incompetent social and political leadership.
    But then again, this is a nation of 300000 people nearly all of whom would love be hangmen.

  12. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    Jeff why do we allow the politicians (AG) to grab the narrative on these kinds of issues? Has he brought legislation to address the voting irregularities he and the PM alleged they witnessed post 2013 results? Has he brought the amendment to the domestic abuse act he promised the women? Has he returned to parliament to update the nation on Mia’s LEC?

    @ David, I suppose because politicians’ words sell newspapers. Have you never attended a function where a Minister gives the feature address and noted the mass exodus of the press corps after his presentation?


  13. George,
    The concept of the victim is one that has come to dominate liberal democratic criminology since the 1970s when it was invented in the US. It was bogus then and is bogus now.
    The state has nothing, or should have nothing, to do with revenge, which is what victimology is. Have you ever read a so-called victim impact report? Where is Christian criminology in this heated debate?

  14. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    Jeff, as usual. Interesting and provocative. Can you expand on the ‘victim’ since I think it has direct implications for the perpetrator that is often missed. In that sense, the pool of victims are wider. Very complex issues in a human rights era.

    @ George, thanks. For me the victim is the one who directly suffers loss or harm from the acts of the perpetrator. Harm includes injury, loss or damage so that the one physically hurt is not the sole victim. For instance in a rod fatality, the deceased suffers loss of life, but his or her dependants also suffer the economic loss of their breadwinner, loss of care guidance and companionship and the person’s society. In that sense they are also “victims” of the tortious act.
    Trust that you are well?

  15. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    Ugly kids come from ugly parents if you dont believe it …follow an ugly kid home.

    @ Lawson, I do not know the address! LOL!!!!

  16. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    But then again, this is a nation of 300000 people nearly all of whom would love be hangmen.

    @Hal Austin, and what accounts for this? Why can’t we search for an alternative solution?


  17. Look… why wunna don’t leave this one alone nuh…?
    In order to speak intelligently on any complex topic, one needs to gave a good grasp of the underlying rules, regulations, laws, and ultimate objectives.

    Imagine a group of American tourists going to Kensington to pontificate on why cricket is such a mass of confusion….and how it can be improved….
    …or some sissy blogger seeking to make Australian rules rugby into a more friendly and family sport.

    As Vincent hints, Human beings are – at the basic level, simply animals ..with typical animalistic tendencies – including predatory violence, selfish self-preservation instincts, and natural ‘fight or flight’ responses.

    What is special about human beings is the POTENTIAL that we have to be much more than mere animals. We have the ability to RISE above such ‘natural’ tendencies and to progress towards a state of being that more parallels the beings that CREATED the whole experience in which we exists called ‘life on earth’.

    Indeed, this is the very reason that the whole project was conceived in the first place….

    What this means is that there exists a wide range of human ‘state-of-beings’ from raw animalistic savages, all the way up to (a very few) enlightened, refined ‘almost BBE-like’ souls who have realised much of their earthly developmental potential….

    Any discussions therefore on dealing with violence needs to take place against the background of dealing with a wide variety of personalities, states of development, and levels of enlightenment.

    What would make sense for a ‘Jeff Comberbatch’ in terms of disciplinary action then, may well be completely counter-productive with Vincent …and would be TOTALLY counter-intuitive in the case of Alvin….

    To completely rule out violence as an option across the board simply creates and empowers a group of ‘untouchable’ savages at the lower end of the human scale ….which would be about as idiotic as expecting to use exotic academic incentives to seek to discipline raw, animalistic idiots who are, for example, simply intent on robbing and murdering defenceless old women for their pensions.

    Discipline (the process of moulding and improving disciples – an integral aspect of true education) is an extremely complex COMMUNITY-CENTRIC issue – and is not one to be compromised with emotional shiite talk.

    There ARE, for example, some people who SHOULD be put to death in the community interest.
    There are some persons who DO benefit from corporal punishment at stages of their life…
    There are some persons who could be harmed by corporal punishment depending on where they are…but who thrive on other forms of correction.
    If it was a simple matter then any idiot would be a good parent; a good teacher; and a good leader…..
    IT IS NOT….. so we tend to have global chaos across the world in this vital matter…. and lots of uninformed comments…


  18. Barbadians would love to ‘pop a few necks’ because of the learned behaviour that drives those in authority to abuse their positions (ie magistrates) then condemn the man or woman in the street who swear out loud or fight.
    Aggression and violence by the authorities in Barbados is a bigger problem than school children fighting. If you want to see ‘natural’ Bajan aggression just read this forum and express contrarian ideas.
    But it is not genetic, it is learned. Are eugenics making a come back?

  19. angela Skeete Avatar

    Hal Austin May 28, 2017 at 8:59 AM #

    It is a truth that Barbadian culture is aggressive normally, and potentially violent.
    …………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

    Please expand or clarify on your above comment since in my mind is provocative and can be interpreted as a view which many hold.

  20. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    If it was a simple matter then any idiot would be a good parent; a good teacher; and a good leader…..
    IT IS NOT….. so we tend to have global chaos across the world in this vital matter…. and lots of uninformed comments…

    @ Bush Tea, funnily enough, I agree with you. It(!) is not at all simple, whatever that “it” may be. But we were not given inquiring minds to accept without question and not try to discover new shores. Your position is a cop out..Don’t question, just accept!

    “Ours is to reason why”!


  21. The only reason corporal punishment is now controversial in Barbados is that it is no longer accepted in the UK and North America.

    It is the “progressive” abolitionist (like Jeff), not the conservative, who is aping our white masters.

    Every Western society that has abandoned corporal punishment in schools has been faced with the problem of large numbers of “out-of-control” criminal youth, including disproportionately large numbers of black criminals, who must be stopped or destroyed with police guns. Vast investments must also be made in prisons and in a private security industry to protect the powerful, the wealthy and the innocent from marauding gangs of thieves, bullies and rapists.

    Can Barbados afford the burden of Jeff’s bad ideas?

  22. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    @ Ewart, And we have not abolished it! With what result? Are you satisfied with the status quo.

    @BU, I gone until after lunch this pm. Arriverderci!

  23. angela Skeete Avatar

    Jeff Cumberbatch May 28, 2017 at 9:10 AM #

    Ugly kids come from ugly parents if you dont believe it …follow an ugly kid home.

    @ Lawson, I do not know the address! LOL!!!!

    Really ! Really so silly !

    I thought / believe that this topic was brought to the attention to find solutions on hard and pressing issues that have engulfed families negatively


  24. @Ewart
    I cannot remember the transgression, but as a teacher in barbados, the headmaster once gave me his whip so that I could flog an offender. It was in 1981 and I refused to do so.
    Perhaps Jeff is not aping your white masters but experiencing some residual effects of action I took in 1981.

    To me, this is on Jeff’s best effort.


  25. Angela,

    It speaks for itself. No explanation is needed. Just look at the mindless aggression some people in this forum aim at you.
    Of the Caribbean people I have met, none matches Barbadians for aggression – not even the much criticised Jamaicans. Of Africans, only the Nigerians come close.


  26. Hal Austin
    is a reliable fount of misinformation.The most spectacular dunce on BU.

    Having lived for a time with the murderous Grenadians, hosted refugees from the murderous Guyanese, helped my sister escape the murderous Jamaicans, and studied at length the recent history of the murderous Haitians, I can say without hesitation that Barbados is an oasis of serenity and goodwill in the Caribbean.


  27. Ewart,

    Aggression, dear man, not murderers. But you prove my point. You obviously disagree, but you want to go for the jugular. It is aa Bajan thing.


  28. @Hal

    You have been around long enough to know who are trolls, yardfowls etc. do like Kenny Rodgers, know when to hold or fold.


  29. David,
    Your advice is always appreciated.


  30. You JAs have decided to point silly comments at Jeff now? Imagine we have an economy in the toilet, a social landscape in the toilet and all you JAs have the brain capacity to do is attack citizens who want the best for Barbados?


  31. It is amazing how many of you resident in the USA label Barbados as backward yet 30 plus states are open to execute people.


  32. @Hal Austin May 28, 2017 at 8:59 AM re “… but there is a wider social responsibility on the part of the state, and that is not to criminalise our young people. …What happened should have been resolved between the parents and the school, with the school head having the authority to suspend the guilty party.”

    Not sure how it is in your part of the world but seems to me that ship as sailed. It now seems almost standard practice that matters once resolved within the school environment are handled by police. The images and stories (in US surely) of children less than 10 being handcuffed by school officers are many.

    The only ‘saving grace’ – if it’s such – is the fact that in most jurisdictions juvenile offenses are sealed away when you become an adult; youthful immaturity should not hamper your future

    @Jeff, this is an interesting legal journey but a quite perplexing piece for the lay man like moi. Below I suspect that I take you a bit out of context, so bear with me if you will.

    From time immemorial it seems to me that ‘[t]his notion of holding the parent accountable for the sins or wrongs of their children ” was entrenched in the basic legal context of the legal dictum of a ‘minor’.

    In layman speak, as a minor you had to obey the direction of your parents because the law said you were unable to enjoin at a mental level to make certain decisions for yourself … and depending on jurisdiction that could be it related to getting married, having sexual intercourse, getting a license, entering into a contract, voting and more.

    You certainly couldn’t authorize your own attendance card or grade report (some surely tried though) at secondary school level either.

    Moreover, if you broke Mr Williams’ window it was the norm that by force of parental responsibility payment was due from said parents.

    Would you consider it ‘self-righteously indignant’ when a parent is held liable for careless use of his registered gun which allowed his minor child to play ‘pretend shooting’ and kill his playmate.

    (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/05/25/we-had-to-watch-my-sweet-beautiful-6-year-old-boy-take-his-last-breath-the-tragic-shooting-that-began-with-a-neighbors-unsecured-gun/;https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/02/06/child-accidental-shooting-father-sentenced/22970401/)

    What about when parents have drugs (legal marijuana for example) around the home and the minor happily makes a few joints and takes to school and shares!

    Or another of us forever smart parents have a really powerful tech array and minor child pride of joy of ours who is the smartest beyond measure enjoys some cool cyber games of the hacking type…and alas gets caught…

    Isn’t the law CLEAR…those ‘delinquent’ minors can be tried at law but the parent is also responsible and too will be fined if ‘found guilty’!

    Is parental vicarious responsibility at criminal court really that hard to accept!

    So yes I readily accept that the local AG has to establish local laws to meet his goal to punish parents vicariously at criminal law for the exploits of their children but is the legal or practical playing field really as unsupportive of such ‘draconian’ steps as we might really believe!!

    I suspect that all here recall the infamous ‘affluenza case’. Where a judge accepted the contention that a minor was so ” unable to link his actions with consequences because of his parents teaching him that wealth buys privilege”. That judge adjudicated that the minor was thus not to blame for the DWI death of four people.

    I recall thinking at the time that such a judgement surely should be matched with one or both the parents being held vicariously liable at criminal court for those deaths and be sent to jail to the full extent of the legal indictment of that accident.

    If a judge can be persuaded as that one was, why then no parental punishment at court also…


  33. @David
    We have some backward states as well.

  34. angela Skeete Avatar

    Hal with all due respect i disagree with your point of view . But this i will say there is a difference in social attitude with this modern generation when compared to the older generation maybe built up by stress and tension . What can be seen as aggressiveness by bajans can be witnessed in other countries in part and mainly because societies have learned and are not eager to repeat some of the mistakes of older generations who were docile and were easily taken advantage believing in the adage that silence is golden come what may while such silence only helped other peoples interest . So what is happening might be a retooling and reshaping and correction of many old social wrongs by this new generation in an effort to make better. Yes the attitude might be overbearing and boisterous but with changes every thing is thrown into the pot
    Yes along the path there would be issues and cussing and shouting but hopefully at the end of the day good would suppress or weed out the bad.
    Btw Hal i have learned how to adjust and access what is being said to me and thankfully nothing said i take personally in that words can only hurt or demean one self esteem if allowed permission a self defeating permission which i have denied all my life favoring to stick to my guns along the way

  35. Bernard Codrington. Avatar
    Bernard Codrington.

    @ Bush Tea 9:30 AM

    I agree with you 100%. What ever sanction works; that is the right one. There is no one system of punishment that works in all societies or for that matter all schools, homes and families.

  36. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    *What about when parents have drugs (legal marijuana for example) around the home and the minor happily makes a few joints and takes to school and shares!

    Or another of us forever smart parents have a really powerful tech array and minor child pride of joy of ours who is the smartest beyond measure enjoys some cool cyber games of the hacking type…and alas gets caught…

    Isn’t the law CLEAR…those ‘delinquent’ minors can be tried at law but the parent is also responsible and too will be fined if ‘found guilty’!*

    @DPD, those are not really cases of parental vicarious liability but rather clear cases of dereliction by the parents themselves for which they ought to and will be held liable. True vicarious liability would simply ascribe the child’s acts to the parents and hold them liable therefor.


  37. @ depedantic

    It is not only in the US and Barbados that we have criminalised bad behaviour by children. In the UK too we have state and private police manning the corridors. Schools now routinely breach data protection by sharing children’s private details with the police. How often do you her police say that children are known to them, children who have never been in trouble before.
    It4 is a failure by the state to keep the peace and of modern parenting.

    @ Angela,

    It is important to note that one of the stereotypes of black Britons is that they are aggressive and even violent. It is a cheap accusation thrown at black people, especially men. But we must negotiate these challenges, it is no excuse for criminalising our children, and in the process, giving justification to what others think of us. We can do better as a people by not behaving to stereotypes.
    But I feel Barbados has long lost its moral compass, and that goes from the church to the man in the rum shop. It is a society that does not know what it wants.


  38. @ Bernard C
    What ever sanction works; that is the right one.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Exactly.
    Bushie would have thought this to be self-evident…. and that ‘wisdom’ and ‘experience’ were the magic ingredients that should guide the choice of sanction. Therein lies the ‘complexity’.

    LOL
    If Bushie was not fully appraised of what currently affects global thinking …and of what guides our general approach to such issues, it would be quite funny….

    Imagine ‘educated’ people who abhor administering a regular ‘cut-ass’ by a parent or teacher… (something Bushie endured to his everlasting benefit for his entire youth) …at the cost of a society where police now are forced to use radical lethal force on those same grown-up youth on a daily basis…

    .. Spare the rod and spoil the child – you can always shoot him later at age 22
    .. A stitch in time saves nine – but is too hard for a foolish parent (teacher) to do..
    .. Shape the branch while it is still young and bendable….

    The kind of intuitive wisdom that was used by the old generation has now been displaced by an illogical, and regressive emotionalism whose results have been devastating for communities where ever it has been applied…. but which somehow continues to capture the imagination of the lost….

  39. angela Skeete Avatar

    HAl

    But I feel Barbados has long lost its moral compass, and that goes from the church to the man in the rum shop. It is a society that does not know what it wants.

    Yes Hal agree with your comment such happens when “real” transformation is forced down peoples throat waywardness and a lost of control raises its ugly head along with a need to rebel
    Such is the nature of the beast .

  40. William Skinner Avatar
    William Skinner

    Capital punishment has not stopped murders. Corporal punishment has not stopped school violence.
    The social scientists and the lawyers will continue to differ.
    We bragged so much about our economic stability over the years yet the society declined.
    The question returns: Do we continue to place emphasis on the economy or the society?


  41. Hal those guys who sliced and diced lee rigby didnt help you. But you are right barbados has lost its moral compass, cropover has become pretty risque over the years but it isnt just the island look at the mob they used to have a code of ethics people never sought to kill or blow up kids but now everyone is fair game. How many old people have to be abandoned at the front of the QEH for people to see that the next generation is a me generation. Never let go of the purse strings , get a licence to carry a concealed weapon permit buy the biggest hummer you can get hire a food taster and you will make out just fine


  42. Lawson,

    Young back men in search of a purpose look out for people like themselves to emulate. When they look they see very few, if any at all. So they look elsewhere: the Mosque, gangs, drug abuse, etc. If we continue the way we are going we my become irrelevant.
    I will give a brief example||: a few weeks ago the minister for Labour raised the question of the future of work; I thought here was a subject for our sociologists, economists, trade unionists, media, etc. Not a word.
    Ask them to swear and be abusive towards anyone in public life and these people, masquerading as respectable, but hiding behind a mask of anonymity, behave like prostitutes on Nelson Street in the 1950s. Nearly all are pensioners. They ought to be ashamed of themselves. How can these people morally tell off their grand children for bad behaviour?
    Look at the obsession with same-sex marriage and lesbianism.
    Barbados is on the precipice of Gomorrah.

  43. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger

    Ha, Ha…ya really outdoing yaself, since your UK and Lawson’s Canada have no such evils, why dont the 2 of you get all those righteous frauds to go into Barbados and teach the people….how not to be criminals and gays and everything your hypocritical, useless minds conjure.

  44. angela Skeete Avatar

    In a nation where there is a differing cultures and races not to mention religious doctrines which applies and would solely define those races and their culture. How does any Govt go about identifying which method of corporal punishment is best suited
    How for instance can Govt issue a Western resolution to corporal punishment in a world where there are people of differing cultures and where ideological differences are at play

    .


  45. Angela,

    The dominant culture is, and must remain, traditionally Barbadian. If New Barbadians do not like our culture they can always leave. Ours is a tolerant and dynamic culture, not one to be malleable.

  46. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger

    Ha, Ha Austin is being his usual dumb self, it was UKs former PM David Cameron said he would spread the idea of gay marriages and gay rights across the earth….the UK has always been infested with homosexuality, their stock in trade, used as a weapon during slavery….now out of contol in UK and can only be managed though acceptance and tolerance.

    When Cameron said that Ha, Ha  Austin….why did you not protest, ya still can….since UK has millions of gays, many millions…you idiot. 

    …as for the one Lawson, you should be tolerant or let me talk out yall secret seeing as every other man in Canada is gay…particularly the younger generation.


  47. Look I am tired of people coming to a country then trying to turn it into the shithole they came from. If you want to come.. learn the laws, abide by them, and the country will stay that enticing free place you wanted to come to.


  48. WW just because a man wont give you a second look doesn’t necessarily mean he is gay, I am sure the village you lived in echoed of Hamlin with all the people following you home.


  49. @Jeff

    Thanks for taking the emotion out of a complex synergistic issue. If only our “leaders” in civil society and education would now do the same and engage each other to get some progress.

    @Bushie 9:23 am

    Proper post!!!!

    Just observing


  50. @ William
    Capital punishment has not stopped murders.
    Corporal punishment has not stopped school violence.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Do yourself a favour and stop saying things like this….
    It fits much better coming from AC and Peter Pollster…

    Nobody EVER said that capital punishment stops murders…
    …or that corporal punishment stops school violence…. well nobody intelligent that is…

    Life is complicated, and many of the ‘results’ that we want to achieve are NOT obtainable via the direct idiot approach…. which is why we need to avoid ‘advice’ from fools.

    For example;
    The way to become really wealthy is by a community-centric attitude giving, caring, and sharing – rather than by greed, hoarding and stealing…

    The way to peace is not by avoiding fights, but by fighting for righteousness, fairness and justice.

    The way to be loved is not by forcing someone to love you, but by loving others…

    Capital punishment is not about ‘ending murders’…. it is about sending a message that life is held in such esteem by the community, that the price for taking one is the highest price that a life-taker can pay….

    Corporal punishment is not about ending school violence, but about sending the message that “if you behave like an animal, you will be treated like an animal….”, and if you behave like a human being, you will be treated accordingly….

    Do you know of a better way than a whip, to incentivise a jackass to do the right things…? .
    ..or are you one of those fellows who mind Jeff and cuddle up to a misbehaving ass…?

    LOL
    ha ha ha

The blogmaster invites you to join the discussion.

Trending

Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading