The Jeff Cumberbatch Column – Violence and Parental Responsibility

Jeff Cumberbatch – Chairman of the FTC and Deputy Dean, Law Faculty, UWI, Cave Hill

We are a people given to indulging in a public orgy of lamentation, mock horror and indignation each time there is a report of some act of violence perpetrated on an individual. Truth to tell however, violence appears to be hardwired into our DNA. That assertion might explain partially why we are so ready to suggest “he/she could only want beating” as an appropriate remedy for some slight or the other, why despite having solemnly ratified an international treaty that provides otherwise, we are so reluctant to abandon the use of violence towards children in the form of corporal punishment, and why cyber images of the wanton after school battery of some hapless child can go “viral” in a period of one afternoon. It is this last that I refer to as school violence.

The dark period of slavery has influenced our cultural traits in more ways than several. Aping the ways of the master might explain why in a nation where most citizens are of blackish hue, some are frequently referred to pejoratively as being “too black”, or ridiculed for the excessive Africanity of their facial features. It has also, according to some, influenced the nature of our current infirmities, the CNCDs, through generations of malnutrition by the consumption of over fatty and too salty foods that were provided for our ancestors. This mimicry might have also extended to the way we treat those who dis’ us in some way either through dis (respect) or dis (obedience). The nature of the master-slave relation back then would not have possibly contemplated an amicable resolution of a similar incident through polite social discourse. Rather, the whip would have been immediately unhung from its nail and the offender punished to within an inch of his or her life…sometimes. Or some other of those inhuman punishments that have been chronicled would certainly have ensued.

There will be those who will disagree with my equation of that cruel conduct with the present day acts of violence we exhibit towards each other and towards infants in school. Of course the one is not the mirror image of the other, but I am not making that point. I am positing rather that our cultural penchant for mimicking the master causes us to react in a similar way to the extent that we are legally free to do so only.

And to the suggestion that the corporal punishment of infant pupils in school is not and cannot be classified as violence, I respond that such a view might be valid only in a context where the concept is itself to be defined by the perpetrator. In other words, we claim that corporal punishment is not violence, because of an amalgam of the apparent intention of the flogger, his or her motive for executing the punishment, the statutory licence to do so and the milieu in which the punishment is carried out. What if we were to define violence through the perspective of the victim as we do in numerous other contexts? To the child is it any less an insult to his or her physical integrity because a teacher is the one carrying it out even if the child has engaged in misconduct?

In law, the tort of battery – the intentional infliction of unlawful force to the person of another requires an element of “hostility” in order for it to be unlawful and thus actionable. Most laypersons would at once assume that this requirement mandates an intention to inflict violence on the part of the batterer. It does not. “Hostile” has been construed to mean simply, “adverse to the interest of the victim” or without his or her implied or express consent. So that an unwanted kiss may be hostile and while being jostled and pulled by the other would-be commuters when engaged in pushing to board the ‘last’ bus might satisfy the element of the intentional application of force to one’s person, there would be no actionable battery since you would be taken to have at least impliedly consented to any force that might have been inflicted on you in such a crush.

As a youngster of about 8 or 9, I saw a young man “beating” his girlfriend. He did not beat her as he might have beaten another male who chose to retaliate; indeed his effort more resembled some exotic dance as he slapped her face ever so gently and occasionally raised his leg to knee her in the groin, all the while with a look of mild embarrassment on his face and ignoring her tearful pleas for him to stop. He never raised his voice above a murmur, he never swung a fist at her…he simply frustrated her interest in physical integrity until she cried. Was this the enigmatic infliction of punishment with love that the protagonists of corporal punishment in schools go on about? Was he violent? Were his actions hostile?

Vicarious parental responsibility

As one expected consequence of the virality and repugnance of the video clip portraying the horrific battery of the young female pupil last week, criminal charges have been laid against the perpetrators. The Honourable Attorney General, Mr Adriel Brathwaite QC, MP has also suggested that there might be another. He is reported to have stated in reaction, “I’ve been championing changing our juvenile legislation to make not just the juvenile accountable, but also the parents accountable…”

This notion of holding the parent accountable for the sins or wrongs of their children is likely to resonate with the self-righteously indignant in our fair land who are quick to condemn pharisaically the failings of other while ignoring the beam in theirs.

As a matter of law however, it will require legislative intervention since the concept of parental vicarious liability is unknown to our common law. According to an article in the New York Times, there has been the enactment of such legislation in some of the states in the US –an Idaho law authorizes courts to require parents to pay detention costs for a juvenile; in West Virginia the parents of a child that has defaced a public building may be held liable for up to $3, 000 in fines; and in Louisiana, parents can be found guilty of improper supervision of a minor and both fined and confined if their child associates with a convicted felon, drug dealer or members of a street gang. Clearly this last is not a true vicarious liability; the parents are themselves in default of their personal duty to supervise the child.

And in fact, Barbados has already legislated similarly. According to section 64B of the Education Act, Cap. 41-

“A pupil who wilfully damages or destroys school property or the property of any person lawfully on the school premises is guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to fine of $500, if he is under the age of 16 years, or, if he is 16 years of age or older, to such fine or to imprisonment for 3 months or both.

(2) The Court before which a pupil referred to in subsection (1) is tried may, in accordance with section 120 of the Magistrates Jurisdiction and Procedure Act, order the parent of that pupil to pay compensation for the destruction or damage caused.”

Despite its populist allure, this concept has not been met with acclaim by all those concerned with its administration. “Most of these laws are a complete waste of time”, avers the president of the US National Council on Crime and Delinquency. “It’s country club criminology. It sounds good in the suburbs but it’s an empty threat because if you carry it out you just further endanger and pull apart families…”

This caveat apart, the notion of vicarious parental responsibility is also decidedly unbiblical. According to Deuteronomy 24:16 [KJV]

“The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.”

It would be of interest to hear those Barbadians who advocate strict adherence to Biblical injunction offer their views on the AG’s current proposals.

Second, the imposition of vicarious liability ordinarily requires justification because generally the law punishes an individual for his or her misconduct only. In a case where it may be established that the parent negligently supervised the child as in the Louisiana statute cited above liability should naturally follow.

Are the parents now to be held absolutely liable because their child, notwithstanding their best efforts, indulged in misbehavior causing damage? We should think about it some more.


  • Hal exactly there are many places to immigrate to with every possible law that will accommodate you. Want to smoke dope go to Netherlands want to live under sharia many to choose from ,want to drive on the right side of the road canada maybe your choice but when you choose one assimilate and obey current laws otherwise you are coming under false pretenses.and should be booted out


  • @Hal Austin at 3:54 AM ….for a man of your background you categorize stuff in often most perplexing ways.

    It’s a given surely that ‘assimilation’ with immigrants never works exactly as planned. There clearly will be a melting-pot multicultural vibe in cities with immigrant communities but our basic ethnocentric, clannish nature invariably manifests itself.

    It is not only London that will have it’s Little Italy, Chinatown, West Indian nave, Little Warsaw or its ‘Kremlin Korner’ et al.

    Can BIM avoid that…. yes and no. We are so small that carving out ethnic communities may be less ‘visible’ but surely people will gravitate to their areas of comfort and least initially….thus East Indians previously made the areas around Kensington somewhat of an enclave.

    Immigrants embrace their new countries but they want to savour something of their old too…the immigration experience must be heralded for his positives and the negatives buried and left behind!


  • USA is a good example of assimilation however for USA citizens predominately black it was a rude and awakening experience mostly because the blacks were being giving the shitty end of the stick in preference to a new breed of foreigners who were already socially and psychologically prepared to do whatever it takes to make better of their lives after much having to experience in their home lands poverty triggered by high unemployment and social decay
    Can barbados a tiny island without much of any productive resources play as close on the same assimilation play field like america , i doubt that and be expected to welcome all with open arms
    It took american citizens many years to accept that assimilation was meant to produce an america as an example for other countries to follow which was easier said than done that even after all these years many in the black race still seem to be offended as they struggle for survival in their own country which seem to be taken over by foreigners


  • @ Skinner May 29, 2017 at 1:18 AM….you spoke well in your post but as usual with these debates there is always a conflation and confusion with abuse.

    As you stated “When a mother takes up a piece of two by three and beats up her child that is not discipline.” That is a criminal offense. Has nothing to do with parental discipline.

    But what I wanted to highlight was the statement “When a headmaster beats an entire class for the actions of ONE pupil that cannot be proper justice.”

    You know well that team discipline or esprit de corps is crucial for success in military teams, for example a patrol of SEALS or RANGERS, It is not uncommon in that environment to establish a unity of purpose – one for all, one for all – by demanding team ownership of mishaps and member behavior with collective discipline.

    The intent obviously is to ensure the team works c
    ohesively to strengthen any weak link or correct missteps.

    The principal’s flogging may be considered harsh or wrong if one disagrees with flogging but the concept is actually a well trodden leadership model.


  • Lawson, absolutely. Why come to Britain, for example, then try to turn it in to part of the Caliphate, as is the case? If that is what you want, then stay at home.
    @ Angela, absolutely, you are spot on. The New Communities settle in the new countries with one thing in mind: they are higher up the pecking order than the blacks. Just look at the Eastern Europeans in Britain.
    I come back to something I have said here before: the relationship between blacks and Europeans is not perfect, but far better than it is with other ethnic groups.


  • Hal i am not making this stuff up recently i traveled and in one of the airports which was employed by predominately blacks in the early seventies and onward i was aghast to find that the latinos had replaced every single black in employment and btw the command of the latinos english language was despicable to say the least and communication skills left a jaw dropping response of WTF (excuse my manner of speak ) . I am saying that to show that the concept of assimilation can be problematic especially if govts refuse or ignore the plight of their own people while giving outsiders the first hand treatment
    Their is order and process which should work together with intelligent thinking bringing what is known as an orderly process
    I just could not help but to think that the blacks in that country had the patience of Job while their livelihoods were being stolen from right under their noses
    Barbados a small country and limited resources ! well id not know how the country would face a deluge of immigrants from other territories when they can least afford to take care of their own


  • Angela,
    You are preaching to the converted. Just look at the low skilled jobs in London and you will see the number of Southern and Eastern Europeans doing those jobs. Bangladeshis have even removed blacks as cleaners.
    But Bajans are stubborn and believe it would not happen here. Wait until the Muslims have infiltrated themselves in key positions then we will see what they are really like.
    Don’t be like Britain.


  • A lot of Bajans prefer to beat the crap out of their children than waste time talking to them and guiding them.

    It is easy for teachers to beat OTHER people’s children especially the ones whose skin don’t show welts and bruises.
    Too besides there are some teachers who relish the opportunity to take out the frustrations they brought from home, on the backsides of the children they are supposed to teach.


  • I see the buffoons running the criminal justice system in Barbados have now charged a 13 yr old girl in connection with the school fight. There is no difference between this serious abuse of authority and someone deciding that since crime is in your DNA the state will put you in prison from birth. Are Bajans the most silly people in the Caribbean?


  • Vincent Haynes

    FINLAND……Teaching of the future????


  • There is something inherently wrong with charging minors. As a society we are failing. Understand they have to send a message but it does not change the reality of the situation.


  • David,
    It speaks to our humanity. A good session between the head of the school and parents would more than resolve this problem; if the kids continue to give trouble then you escalate it. This is the nuclear option – typically Bajan. I am surprised they did not execute them. And they are those who would stupidly think this is the right thing to do.


  • Vincent Haynes

    We have to change our method of dealing with and educating the Nations children,we need to learn to adapt in changing times with newer tools.


  • Listen up folks this was not just an ordinary after school fight between two children this was an assault not by one or two but by many on one defenseless child.Some how individuals here are in denial as to the nature and act of the violence prepetrated on the victims body with an intent to do serious bodily harm. What if in the process of this violence the victim had died would the outpouring of the bleeding hearts be the same
    Folks this was not a movie or an act intended for movie. Here we have a victim and family members who would have to suffer long term consequences because of a senseless act andhere we have the bleeding hearts crying for the prepetrator of the crime instead of justice for the victim.
    What if it was your child who was kicked bruised and brutally assaulted in a sensless manner to the ground by ruthless chuldren would your heart be crying out for special favours on the behalf of those who had violated your child life
    I do not think so


  • Children today are considered more ‘brazen’ than children of say the 50’s.The effrontery and the fear of the consequences of one’s actions in the two periods are completely different.We live in very liberal times with all kinds of electronic gadgets which expose children to hitherto unknown or concealed knowledge.The grannies and aunties and stay home neighbours seem a thing of the past.It seems to me that the “yes please mistress” kind of fawning condescending hand downs from the plantation economy are over and done with.Expect these youngsters to stand up for their rights until such time as it becomes the norm that respect has always been and should always be a two way street,so that no jackass minister of government would expect me to kowtow to him or her especially when I know they are thieving corrupt liars among the gods of Bay St.led by a man who neither sees, hears nor believes that any of his ministers are on the take.


  • Angela,

    Get real. Rid yourself of the Bajan fascism.


  • The presence of video recording devices has turned the simple fisticuff into combat between two gladiators. Even when one opponent is down and out, the other combatant presses home the advantage as he/she seeks to increase the number of viewers and to have the video go viral.

    Comparing the society of yesteryear with that of today is a comparison of unequals. Yesterday, there was little or no viewership and stories were told mainly by word of mouth. Today, a video made in Bridgetown can be accessible to a person in Bejing in a matter of seconds.

    Our actions are influenced by our technology; the simple fight is now seem as an opportunity to showcase the savage beast.


  • In case, someone may think of it……preventing upload of fights to the internet will not stop school children from fighting 🙂


  • Hal fascism what? the penalty must fit the crime and by law assault and battery is a crime and the assault done to victim body fits like a glove into the legal parameters of a criminal act on the victims body
    No i am not calling for a severe penalties so harsh that in the long term the consequences hurt and harm rather than send teachable message e.g maybe in the area of community service helping the elderly or even programs that would give them a view of how life behind bars can wreck their lives putting these children directly into the area to see for themselves,
    There can also be required to active in after school programs that teach crime and violence also the parents should be required to be part of any or all of these programs
    There are many areas and programs that these children can be given a second chance on life to stay on the straight and narrow
    However one cannot forget the victim first and foremost and the state duty to act on hers and the families behalf with a justice that would suffice them making them belief that there is ‘Real Justice ” which can serve a purpose to help and to heal,


  • No Hal i do not tolerate or have sympathy for ruthless people and especially children been given a free pass because of age. if a lesson is not taught to these children after their first offence these children continue in lives journey to become adult bullies until one day the inevitable happens live behind bars or early death at the hands at someone who is more ruthless than them
    These children must be taught lessons lessons that would punish but give them a renew zeal for the respect of all life


  • Angela, this is a 13 yr old appearing in court on an assault charge that, if convicted, will damage her for the rest of her life. Is that a fit penalty? This in a society that has lost its moral compass: in which teachers go on strike because of so-called sick building syndrome; for ridiculous pay rises; in which the minister of education was stopped by police for driving without road tax and motor insurance; in which the church, who should give moral guidance, remains silent when the nation is crying out for moral leadership.
    @Angela, step back from being a Bajan and see the incident in broader human terms. As to those talking about the old days, in the 1950s and 60s we threw stones at our rivals, murderous weapons. Not many of us, if any, appeared in court.
    All this in a society with magistrates (who try about 95 per cent of cases) are often badly educated and lack in proper training.
    For benefit of age is that we can look back and reflect; but if we are going to our graves with the same silly ideas of our youth then it is a life wasted.


  • @Hal

    Debating the point you are trying to make is an exercise in futility. It is like converting a DLP yardfowl to support the BLP. Let us all agree that as a society we are doing something wrong to breed this kind of behaviour. We can also agree that 13 year olds have no place in our jails.


  • Thanks, David.


  • David if there is any top of the yard fowl breed that there is it would be you because nowhere in my comment do i ever advocate jail time for these children .
    by the way there is no bigger hypocrite than you


  • @David May 28, 2017 at 10:30 AM “It is amazing how many of you resident in the USA label Barbados as backward yet 30 plus states are open to execute people.”

    Well you know that Americans like to believe that they are an exceptionally good, wise and moral people; but yet they permit children to marry, sometime children as young as 11, 12, and 13 years old. Of course these marriages mostly fail, yet our American friends are in no hurry to forbid them. I guess that these marriages remove the “stain” of illegitimacy that so worries Hal. Of course these marriages mostly fail, yet the state governments are in no hurry to ban them, and the federal government refuses to go nuclear on this matter with the states.

    11 Years Old, a Mom, and Pushed to Marry Her Rapist in Florida

    ‘In fact, more than 167,000 young people age 17 and under married in 38 states between 2000 and 2010, according to a search of available marriage license data by a group called Unchained at Last, which aims to ban child marriage. The search turned up cases of 12-year-old girls married in Alaska, Louisiana and South Carolina, while other states simply had categories of “14 and younger.”

    Unchained at Last was not able to get data for the other states. But it extrapolated that in the entire country, there were almost 250,000 child marriages between 2000 and 2010. Some backing for that estimate comes from the U.S. Census Bureau, which says that at least 57,800 Americans age 15 to 17 reported being in marriages in 2014.

    Among the states with the highest rates of child marriages were Arkansas, Idaho and Kentucky. The number of child marriages has been falling, but every state in America still allows underage girls to marry…Twenty-seven states DO NOT EVEN SET A MINIMUM AGE by statute, according to the Tahirih Justice Center’s Forced Marriage Initiative.”


  • @ Simple Simon
    The USA is one of the very worse places on earth …by any altruistic measure. However they have been able to to set the global agenda …and have managed to brainwash most of us into thinking that their albino-centric life philosophy is somehow sacrosanct.
    It is more than depressing to listen to otherwise intelligent people default to their failed philosophies wrt matters like education, justice, politics, wealth, race etc…. when ALL the indicators are that this is a failed society on a fast track to self-destruction.

    After enjoying possibly the greatest ever period of economic, scientific, military and industrial success and supremacy in the whole history of mankind – The USA finds itself broke; broken; with a lopsided class structure where 1% owns 90% of all resources; beset with mindless violence; …and led by a globally acknowledged idiot.

    …and yet we have ‘educated’ Bajans who accept their ‘ways’ as the gospel.
    We define ‘success’ in monetary terms..
    We take pride in belittling the idea of a GOD….. and in the concept of absolute righteousness.
    We dismiss centuries old maxims of wisdom – apparently because misguided albinos also referred to these maxims during the 400 years of slavery..
    We have leaders in position of power and influence – CHOOSING to sacrifice honour, pride and nationalism, in favour of personal financial reward….

    Ignorance is bad enough, but it can be excused where those afflicted can RECOGNISE that they do not understand, and that they do NOT know the answers ….. and seek to find them,,

    What is beyond help, is the more common situation where brass bowls REFUSE to see the obvious; refuse to hear the truth; and decide not to even smell the coffee…
    Seeing, they see not, …and hearing, they hear not… and even in smelling (hell) ..they smell not

    We are therefore most likely constrained to continue down the same secular, money-focused, albino-centric line, DESPITE the fact that the results being achieved are trending towards total chaos – …exactly as has happened in those countries which we continue to model and aspire towards..


  • @BushTea May 29, at 10:06 PM re …”The USA is one of the very worse places on earth …by any altruistic measure… It is more than depressing to listen to otherwise intelligent people default to their failed philosophies wrt matters like education, justice, politics, wealth, race etc…. when ALL the indicators are that this is a failed society on a fast track to self-destruction.”————

    That statement is lopsided and dull. It inspires nothing more than the standard crusade to religious proselytizing that booms : the time is nigh. So God’s speed with your screed.

    On the practical side of life…the US is for all real and meaningful purposes 50 different countries. Yes they march to a drum beat called the UNITED States but how can you lump like one piece of coal a nation that stretches from a tropical island in the Pacific ocean to a bone-chilling ice tundra that is Alaska and many time zones, behaviours and climates in between.

    How do you lump this nation where the politics ranges from rabid right-wing, bible thumping zealots who sing from a very similar hymnal as you do to insufferable left-wing fanatics who never saw a ‘progressive agenda’ they would not embrace.

    This nation has done some of the very worst of crimes, period. The nation has yet also stood steadfast at moments to be the best that humanity could offer.

    And of course given half a chance they would impose their will worldwide…but that would mean a lot of your religious diatribes as much as it would mean a lot of LGBT rights and other things you find uncomfortable.

    Yes, it has a middling mark as a bastion of educational achievement in the STEM metrics, reading and English but Americans still fare exceedingly well in technological developments and other areas of intellectial achievement (despite the fact that non-nationals founded some of the most popular systems/platforms).

    I am not shilling for the US, absolutely not. But we need to be real and curtail these rather obtuse remarks about this failing and dysfunctional US hegemony.

    So what if they elected an intellectual buffoon as their leader…so too have many other nations over the years.

    And yes several states have capital punishment on their law books but almost as many do NOT.

    Take the nation for what it is: a complex, multifaceted compilation of people who sing from 50 different hymnals daily even as they conform to a warren of laws that seek to bring them into conformity on issues accepted as constitutionally sacrosanct.

    The damn place is not perfect…but where is besides your BBE paradise.


  • Dribbler,
    As one of their most dedicated disciples, you would be the very last one that Bushie would expect to understand the gravity of their deceit… you have voted with you proximity to their skirts…
    If you had eyes to see, you would understand that ‘REAL deceit’ does not dress itself in black and wear a mask …while hiding in the shadows….
    ‘Real deceit’ parades itself as ‘right’, and ‘true’ and uplifting, and wear ‘white’….

    The biggest robbers on earth are therefore resident in the all-powerful banks…
    The biggest liars on earth are escounched in global education…
    The worse murderers are called ‘peace-makers’…and the “world’s policemen”…

    The USA, by dint of its material blessings, have taken on the role of being the world’s policemen and the world’s personification of ‘success’…. It has done this, built on a philosophy of albino-centric greed, selfishness and spite, which they call ‘Capitalism’.
    This philosophy is the antithesis of truth, justice and ultimate ‘success’ in this life…. what Bushie likes to call the ‘Community-centric’ attitude.

    By so powerfully enforcing such a flawed – indeed diametrically opposite to the REAL truth – philosophy, the USA has single handedly done more harm to the cause of TRUE global success than any other civilisation that has ever existed.
    This wickedness is amplified by the fact that they can CLEARLY see that the results of their adopted ways ARE NOT WORKING…. yet they continue with their slavish dedication to the materialistic shadows that define their reason d’être.

    Needless to say, you cannot comprehend such thinking, …since your foundational basis for ‘success’ is probably directly related to the size of your bank account. But perhaps even you can now see that there are things in life that are WAY more important and complex than the basic materialistic issues of our physical beings….

    It is like a fella with the potential to become a Gary Sobers… but who concentrates almost totally on the ‘Gary walk’, ‘the collar’, and the immaculate whites….


  • Hi David could you replace my (Vincent) post on BUs Jeffs post with this….tks

    Image may contain: 1 person, meme and text

    Logical Men


    1. Money making opportunity?


    2. millertheanunnaki

      @ Bush TeaMay 30, 2017 at 7:03 AM
      “The USA, by dint of its material blessings, have taken on the role of being the world’s policemen and the world’s personification of ‘success’…. It has done this, built on a philosophy of albino-centric greed, selfishness and spite, which they call ‘Capitalism’.
      This philosophy is the antithesis of truth, justice and ultimate ‘success’ in this life…. what Bushie likes to call the ‘Community-centric’ attitude.”

      Bushie, de pedantic Dribbler has your brass-bowl donkey in a pique of intellectual futility resulting in inevitable ‘defeatism’.

      How can you have your BBE-designed paradise on Earth where the boss engineer and his colleagues (no females included here) threw the template of their perfect creation in the fire of Hell when he banished his ‘first’ sentient prototypes out of the same nirvana and cursed them both until BBE’s kingdom returns to your part of the universe?

      You are dealing with purposely modified weak inferior humans, not godly engineers, banished from your BBE world of pure perfection.

      Who are you to question the works (perfect or imperfect, good or bad) of your perfect BBE?

      Let’s face scientific facts.
      The imperfect boss engineer made a mistake when he cloned his perfect man and turned the modified product into a clitoral magnate of pure pleasurably distracting wickedness, right misogynist Bushie?

      BTW, Bushie, criticisms similar to what you are leveling against the great Satan aka America or the Modern Romans were also aimed against the Old Romans.

      America will fall just as previous great nations fell. What goes around comes around, eventually.

      It’s just a matter of time which even your BBE cannot control.


    3. @ Miller
      There is now, and never has been, any point in trying to explain integral calculus to morons who are challenged by basic decimals….. It is called ‘casting pearls to swine’….
      Hall your snout……!! 🙂


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