National Shutdowns and Workplace Rights
Today’s Barbados Advocate editorial attacks the issue of the rights of the employee AND employer during a national shutdown – Barbados Underground
The shutdown order issued by the DEM was ignored by several companies including Minister Denis Kellman at Moontown.
One of the more contentious issues raised during Wednesday’s national shutdown, owed mostly to the weather system traversing the region, was the legality of the actions of some employers who nevertheless decided to open their places of business and consequently to require the attendance at the workplace of employees. The procedures for business operation during a national shutdown are supposedly captured in the policy enunciated by the local Department of Emergency Management- but the circumstance of a national shutdown also raises a number of intriguing legal issues for employees that are not all answered by enacted legislation and that, as many of the rights and duties of the parties to the employment relationship, depend for their resolution on a combination of the provisions of the employment contract, of any applicable collective agreement and general principles of the common law.
Among the numerous questions that are likely to arise in such a scenario are whether an employee is entitled to leave from work to care for a young child who is at home because schools are closed; whether the employee is entitled to prioritize national service in assisting with emergency services over his or her employment duties; whether the employee is entitled to be paid wages even though he or she finds it impossible to attend work because of blocked roads or unavailable transportation or to work at all because the workplace is not in a fit state; and whether the employer is obligated to pay wages to its workers because there is no business owing to the effects of the weather conditions and the consequent national shutdown.
Leave entitlements will of course depend on the terms of the arrangements between the parties as to when and how and for what purposes such leave may be taken, whether expressed in the contract or incorporated therein by means of a provision in a collective agreement between the employer and the worker’s representative. It should be noted in this connection that the Employment Rights Act 2012 classifies as unfair the dismissal of an employee for the reason “that the employee was absent from work as a result of the performance of a “national duty”. According to section 30 (2)(d) of the Act, this includes “participation by the employee in a voluntary emergency management activity in certain stipulated circumstances.
The entitlement to wages is essentially premised on the readiness and willingness of the employee to work, so that once this condition is satisfied the employer cannot escape liability to pay wages merely on the basis that there is little business because of the shutdown, although there may be a sufficient justification for non-payment in the event that the workplace has been severely damaged by the natural disaster and is thus unfit for work or, strictly speaking, should the employee simply not attend at the workplace, although this may be a matter for further negotiation between the parties.
There is little doubt that the rights and obligations of employees and employers are impacted in times of natural disaster and, more so, when a national shutdown has been declared. Perhaps most desirable here would be a statute or a set of regulations that clearly sets out the rights of the respective parties in such a circumstance. In the absence of this however, resort must be had to traditional legal principles where there is any dispute.
Barbados Underground 
I do not believe that scarce legal resources should be wasted in legislating for every eventuality. The “traditional legal principles” should apply. A breach of common sense is a breach of the law. Any judge in the British commonwealth system of justice will come down on the side of any worker who is injured on his way to or from work during a national shutdown. But money ,even if he receives it, is no compensation for disabling injury or death. But this society’s value system is becoming more and more American i.e legalistic. We have changed one form of dependence for another more insidious one.
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In an increasingly litigious society it becomes madatory NOT to have to rely on commonsense during a national shutdown to deal with a natural disaster.
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@ David
In that kind of society law firms are employed to look for loop holes for the criminal mind to exploit. If there is no law there is no blame and no wrong doing. Is that not the argument that those businesses that opened yesterday used?
How large do you want the Attorney Generals office to be? Are you looking for work for those graduates that are being overproduced at Jeff’s work place?
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Wait … this was written by Dr. George?
wuh…
It says nothing, contributes nothing and concludes nothing.
…a damn waste of space. No wonder no one buys the Advocate.
All this lotta talk about ‘national shutdowns’ is just a waste of our damn time. The thing was a damn depression…. just turning into a named storm. winds LESS THAN 40 MPH and rain less than 10 inches.
Shiite man – we had a shower…. some wusses shut shop and hid under their beds, ..and some people with balls went to work … BIG DEAL!!!
Had this been a hurricane, or even a real storm, it is OBVIOUS that no serious businessman would have opened – or called staff to work.
These damn civil servants like to rush and close shop at the slightest excuse …. water off, cane fire, a strange smell, AC unit failed, staff funeral, rain, sun hot…. ANYTHING.
Does ANYONE in their right senses think that even Froon’ clowns would pass a law mandating a ‘national shutdown; for a few 40MPH gusts and some much needed rain..?
At the VERY least such action would require a Category 1 hurricane….
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Back in the day after the ten school rules were specified , the 11th rule was :A breach of common sense is a breach of the school rule. I can assure you that the Headmaster administered more floggings for rule number eleven than the specified 10.
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@ Bush Tea
You have perfect 20/ 20 hind sight. If Matthew had developed into a Hurricane 1 status when it reached Barbados the amount of Brass Bowls that you would have hurled at the AG would incite me to do a citizen’s arrest of your Brass Bowl. In an area of uncertainty the wise thing is to ere on the side of abundant caution.
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David, I must admit that this makes absolutely no sense to me. On what basis of the laws of Barbados does this ‘national shutdown’ work? As I read Mr Bushtea in the other blog he seemed quite rational and accurate (and affirmed by Caswel) that this process has no binding effect in law.
As one follows these things it’s interesting to note that in the US for example it’s against the law to use the federal militarized forces for in-country policing of citizens or in national emergencies. (incidentally the National Guard is State run, not Federally controlled).
Of course under our laws the military can be so used in Barbados.
So what laws covered this ‘shutdown order’?
These posts have discussed injury to a worker heading into work and how they would still be covered by insurance. But could they sue their employer also for mandating they come to work, and if so what law did the employer breach?
And exactly what right under the law did the police have to demand that businesses close their doors?
Consider that the DEM document is described as a “POLICY FRAMEWORK & Standard Operating Procedures…”
So I must agree with the editorial writer that the government needs to codify this Policy Framework with a clear and unambiguous statute that aligns this action with rules governing a State of Emergency or other properly detailed government order.
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@Bernard, that breach of commonsense statue seemed to be properly used here. As Bushtea said 40 mph winds are not hurricane force by any imagination.
Yes they are dangerous as galvanize can fly all about but are you suggesting that good Bajan commonsense was not used to determine that it was relatively safe to venture out!
The precaution was good common sense…acting rationally in the face of some high winds and rain was not a breach of that….Forcing employees to work is a different matter completely.
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@ Bernard
@ Bush Tea …You have perfect 20/ 20 hind sight. If Matthew had developed into a Hurricane 1 status when it reached Barbados
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…and if shit had wings, we would have seen the fan-strike long ago.
Boss..
Decisions were taken based on MET OFFICE specs.
It is them who said that it was a ‘depression’ … not stinking Bushie.
It was THEM who projected that it would produce winds gusts ‘up to 36MPH’ and ‘up to 4 to 8 inches of rain’ …. not Bush s**t.
…and they were right.
If the Met office had predicted a situation …with 60 MPH wind gusts and rainfall in excess of 12 inches, then it would be a hurricane, with all the implications thereof …. and even a State of Emergency may have been appropriate…… EVEN IF Hampton Lovell then turned out to be wrong.
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“On September 22, the deadly Hurricane Janet struck Barbados in 1955. Hurricane Janet started as a tropical wave located just off Barbados and retained this status until September 21, when within a 12 hour period, it strengthened first to a Category 1 and then into a Category 2 hurricane. When Janet hit the island, it was a Category 3 system packing winds of 120 mph!
Janet went on to become the most powerful hurricane of the 1955 season, reaching Category 5 status with winds of 175 mph. The storm killed 38 people in Barbados alone, caused five (5) million dollars worth of damage, and left as many as 2000 Barbadians homeless.
In fact, the only hurricane hunter plane to be lost in the Atlantic on a reconnaissance mission occurred during Hurricane Janet. On September 26, the pilot lost radio contact at 10:15 p.m., before flying into the then Category 4 storm. By 11:00 p.m. the US Navy classified the plane as overdue and the crew was officially reported missing. Neither the remains of the plane nor any signs of the crew have ever been found.
[Images: Taken from the Barbados Advocate, September 1955]
Information source
Depressions, storms, hurricanes are ALL unpredictable…no ine can say whar they will do ir when they will do it….Matthew was cat 2 yesterday, cat 3 & 4 today…metrology is not an exact science…it is best to err on the side if caution…men make errors and cannot forsee everything on a satellite map, the storm was late by a few hours ckntrary to what the met guys said…it could have easily been stronger by a couple categories.
I would not take a report of snow storm or rain storm, thunder or lightening storm lightly because it does not sound serious….there is always the chance that it’s more serious than they know…it happens all the time.
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@ WW&C
Look woman, you live in the USA.
Wunna live under a constant code yellow or some such terrorist threat level shiite …that could turn to red just so… apart from the loonies that shoot up schools and workplaces for recreation.
Do you stay at home under your bed with a bulletproof vest and a topsy nearby…?
Earthquakes could strike without warning ……and idiots like Stinkliar can cause devastation at will…. what is your solution for these threats?
Stop tripping about a little damn rain do.
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0900Hrs, September 22, 1955. Huricane Janet was just beginning to blow hard. No evidence of any damage to homes or trees was observed.Some people were still milling around waiting for the main attack to come ,before taking shelter. My father , fearing the worst, decided to moved us in his car to a safer place.
0902 Hrs. Seconds after we went past an old massive pear tree, one of the biggest in the community, it came crashing down across the road.
The preceeding constant battering of trees and utility poles by 30 or 40 MPH winds , can cause them to fall, long before the main onslaught of hurricane winds. Not to mention flying galvanise sheets.
Staying indoors is goo advice.
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Lol….Bushman…ya better be prepared, dont want to have to come and helicopter you out cause you believed it was a drizzle when it developed into a category 4 hurricane in 2 hours.
Then you will know what for…lol
Carew won’t have nothing on you.
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LOL @ WW&C
…cause you believed it was a drizzle when it developed into a category 4 hurricane in 2 hours.
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It would have to be because the Met Office believed it was a drizzle…
Bushie is obedient and follows the rules … as long as they exist ..and make sense… 🙂
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Experts Caswell, Well Well, Tea Bush, your friends too, clarify what in Jesus name self nominated economic sage Jeremy Stephens prattles on about. Here’s an individual prominent in the news for reasons unknown. His formula consists of gloomy and tragic interpretations of economic data trivial or significant into the imminent death of the island’s financial system. He’s at it for years still the economy remains intact warts and all. He doesn’t offer solutions only tales namely he knew downgrades were on the cards or devaluation looms. The guess is he gets a rise from such comments.
He gleefully says the shutdown cost $22 million failing to add lives were saved from the shutdown. The Customs Dept. permanent go slow robbed the consolidated fund of $20 million last year alone that’s not in Stephen’s doomsday manual because he cant spin it as government’s fault. The difference between Stephens and Straughan his predecessor is Straughan is a pompous yardfowl who will taste defeat shortly in elective politics. Stephens hasn’t told of political leaning. His depressing forecasts makes him a vicious anti-government voice.
Time to give his mouth a vacation from the folly he spews. His opinions lead to the belief underneath it all he longs for the economy to implode. Stephens your wolf cries are stereotyped as was Albert Branford columns when David Thompson lived. You didn’t have to buy a newspaper to know a tipsy Branford would lambaste Thompson. If you are not part of the solution you’re part of the problem. Think on those words Mr. So Called Economist.
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“And exactly what right under the law did the police have to demand that > businesses close their doors? > > Consider that the DEM document is described as a “POLICY FRAMEWORK & > Standard Operating Procedures…” > If there no laws governing a national shutdown one must assume the police used suasion.
NB. Harry aka waiting aka Ins and Out known DLP bird.
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Interesting, to note how the acting PM Sealy was quick to condemn Bynoe and the other businesses that opened during the shutdown but waffled when it came to Moontown. He should have expected the question and prepared a honest response.
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The bottom line being the right of govt to protect its citizenry where there is the possibility of impending natural disaster…weather related disturbances depending on today’s technology are not an exact science but have shown convincing proof necessary that to err on the side of caution is the best method of interpretation therefore by standard and rational logic govt call for a national shut down was a wise decision , businesses who choose to do otherwise was foolhardily but made a choice that their economic wherewithal had a better chance of stemming potential harm by mother nature than govt legally finding them negligent of committing an illegality
The root of this issues lies within the rot of a broken moral compass within the heart and soul of business hence we have now entered an era where greed is the one and only path of existence placed on a platform of perseverance without having the moral suasion that directs and compels to do that which is right . No surprise here that businesses would put the employees betterment last, then when the moral flag raised to convict business of a wrong a foul sell fills the air and injections a so called legal wrangling to convince society that nothing wrong was done regurgitates from the business community
On the face of all the above i would submit that if a law was fully in placed whereby govt could legally implement calls for a national shut down the hue and cry from private sector would be loud hard and howling in the aftermath following a devastation those being that govt having no right to intervene on the rights of private businesses hence the march to law courts for relief would be as ominous as the dark clouds on the day matthew made its way across barbados
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http://www.barbadostoday.bb/2016/09/30/at-a-loss-2/
The real real reality of a catastrophe on the island.
Some people dont know that though the hurricane forecast was off by hours…the hurricane hunter plane could not make it back into the system to give an update..at that time it was only certain areas on the island were experiencing wind and rain.
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“It is true that the country suffered $22 million by the shutdown but this [the shutdown] certainly staved off a possibly much larger loss which could have occurred if persons were not allowed the time to secure their vulnerable loved ones [elderly and children], their property and themselves,” Stephen stressed.
This would have presented major complications because of limited national insurance coverage, Stephen argued.
The economist made reference to the Catastrophe Fund established in 2007 to assist needy Barbadians in times of disaster, saying it was far from adequate.
“The real GDP [gross domestic product] of this island is around $22 million per day. About 16 to 19 per cent of that is Government, so essentially the private sector lost around 18 million dollars.
“There is an insurance policy called the Catastrophe Fund. Based on the premiums this yields around $6,000 per day, which adds up to $.5 million per year. Given the little bit that is collected in insurance premiums, if we were to have mass casualty as a result of persons going to work, the amount of premium gained would not even begin to cover damage and potential loss of life,” Stephen said, acknowledging that figures from private employer policies were not factored into his argument.
In open opposition to Minister of Finance Chris Sinckler’s plans to abolish the Catastrophe Fund, Stephen advocated either an increase in premiums or a greater allocation by the National Insurance Scheme (NIS).
In February of this year, Sinckler took a paper to Cabinet, asking his colleagues to abandon the Fund and place the accumulated $35 million into the Treasury until Government could decide on the best use of the funds.
The proposal was vehemently opposed by Opposition parliamentarian Kerrie Symmonds who threatened “the mother of all confrontations” should any attempt be made to repeal the Act, which established the fund to assist needy Barbadians in times of disaster.
“I don’t know if most people would want to hear about increase in NIS premiums but there is also the option of allocating more of the insurable earnings towards the Catastrophe Fund,” Stephen said, while making a case for better management of the Fund.
He argued that since Huricane Janet, Barbadians had been riding their luck with weather systems for six decades, pushing the limits on the law of averages as it relates to the impact of major disasters.”
Bushman…while it is imoerative to listen to meterologists, they do nit always get it rightm not even the ones with Doppler4000s and Accuweathers, mother nature always has better snd more dangerous plans.
You are fully ware ya have idiots in parliament who do not care about the welfare and wellbeing of the people either…just like employers…..read the above to further confirm.
There is no adequate insurance should there be a wide scale disaster.
Any employees die or are injured because of the callousness of greedy employers….said employers will up foot and run from Barbados….there monies are already banked off island…what or who will stop them.
There is no and has never been, loyalty by employers to employees or there would be no need for employment rights tribunals.
Last Hurricane that destroyed home on the island, the New York Times revealed that insurance fund in the US to help people repair their homes, not only did this government try to keep the release of those fubds, but to this day there are people who never received a dime to repair their homes.
The government and employers on the island are callous and cold hearted and not fit to be around people…they are greedy and always paper hungry.
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Last Hurricane that destroyed homes on the island, the New York Times revealed that insurance fund in the US to help people repair their homes, had been released to the Barbados government….the government tried to hide that information despite knowing that homes had been destroyed and families severly displaced.
Besides….even if employees refused to work during storms and hurricanes…they would be threatened by the lowlife employers on the island…
…….should the employees be killed or injured going to, during or after leaving work…the employers will swear they agreed to come to work….a personal and voluntary decision…..that is all any and all greedy insurance companies want to hear….to not pay a dime.
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@Colonel, either your ‘old man’ was extremely confident about last minute movementations, he hadn’t paid close attention to the weather reports, those weather reports were not very clear on the real danger of Janet or Bajans had again adopted the ‘we are God’s island, hurricanes don’t touch we’ mantra. Something, bro.
Of course it’s good advice to stay inside during high winds so I would have to assume that the reports were decent enough for the time but folks like your old man were a bit apathetic and got caught at the last minute. But can we really rationally COMPARE 1955 reporting to 2016???
@WW&C , I intended to ask you about your 9:52 post but then I realized that I described a ‘statue’ of law. So as I could be that ‘ingrunt’ with possible ‘Quicklisms’ I had to defer from asking you how you could conflate the warnings and details prior to ‘Janet’ with the excellent and up-to-date weather reports offered today.
Cause if I don’t know a statute when one hits me in the court of law then how could I know enough to question your judgement on 50 year tech comparisons of weather reporting. LOLLL
@BushTea I agree with you completely on this matter. Please let’s get back to being on opposite sides. It’s much more fun!!!
@David, come on bro you know that everything must be given its political bath. Why should matters surrounding natural weather events get excused.
@AC you obviously did not READ the last para of your post before you hit submit. That’s an A+ in contradictory palaver.
“… i would submit that if a law was fully in placed whereby govt could legally implement calls for a national shut down … that govt having no right to intervene on the rights of private businesses hence the march to law courts for relief..”.
So you are thus asserting that in the absence of said law and that although Government STILL intervened with private businesses’ rights then there is no march to the law courts.
I now understand why you are a spokesperson for your party…you are absolutely excellent at obfuscation!
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ACs….ah glad Sinckler git exposed again….with the Catastrophe Fund…haha.
Government have obligation to citenzry my tail.
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Pedant…it was not a comparison to modern day systems tracking…it was to reinforce the complex and unpredictable actions of mother nature….which no systems tracker can predict.
As I said…the hurricane hunter plane tried to reenter Hurricane Matthew to give updates, but the centre had become so unstable, the plane could not get in, at that time, except for some wind and rain, there was relative calm.
Echoes of Janet.
That alone should have given everyone, including employers….great pause.
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it goes back to the root of self interest and a broken moral compass that permeates and diverts what is right for a society, No surprise here that the political machinism of the likes of a Jermey Stephens would expose a ferocious appetite for self interest quickened with unnerving resolute to focus on govt actions in a time of national disaster
Hence his overblown article having a tactical downdraft to tear govt actions to pieces with a relentlessness to focus on loss of productivity over looks the non action which can create and complicate the bigger cost of casualties attributed to natural disaster
It is obvious that Stephens does not mind placing himself on the political altar of ultra opportunism . No man can serve two masters at one time one will be hated the other would be love,,,, his article is a true testament revealing what lies in the heart and soul of a Jermey stephens
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At this point, it has nothing to do with laws…cause we know the idiots in parliament are only talking.
They got a defense force…at taxpayers expense…it’s a matter of using commonsense to have the soldiers and police make sure that all citizens and business people are adherring to calls by government for a national shutdown….It’s the responsibility of the government…as we saw…government can force businesses to shut shop…without any laws.
It’s the responsibility of all citizens to secure self, family and homes and not allow greedy, jackass employers to call them out of their homes….during a storm or hurricane.
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Jeremy Stephens is right to inform the citizenry of threats to their wellbeing by foolish government ministers.
He is doing his civic duty as a solid citizen. ..lol
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When an individual such as Ralph Bizzy Williams feels sufficiently emboldened to challenge a legally elected government decision to impose a national shutdown for health and safety reasons then it becomes clear to me that the said “Businessman” has crossed a red line.
When will this government realise that such a man must be shackled in all senses of the word. I cannot recall Ralph ever being elected as the Prime Minister of Barbados yet he agitates and defies this government on a daily basis.
Prime Minister put this man back into a sealed box in which he belongs.
http://www.barbadostoday.bb/2016/10/01/dont-penalize-businesses-says-bizzy/
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Pedantic why have you opt to you remove parts of the last sentence , where the motives of self perseverance by the private sector would be the catalyst wherby govt would find itself being drag through the law courts
I meaning if you choose to be contrary by all means do so but do not cherry pick bits and pieces to make a clever analysis of what is being said from an individual comment
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@AC
The DLP Government had/still getting warnings with convincing proof of the economy, but look where we are today, so the root of all issues in Barbados lies within the unfixable moral compass of the DLP Government PM and his Ministers
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There is an unwritten convention in Barbados that when government shuts down the private section follows. But I maintain that there was never a request for businesses to close. In future there should be clear request or order (take your pick).
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@ Dribbler
Please let’s get back to being on opposite sides. It’s much more fun!!!
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We are good Boss… like a broken clock you will occasionally agree with Bushie (be right) 🙂
@ WW&C
By the same token, can’t you take a hint from the fact that AC is operating in the same time zone as you are on this matter…? As a clock, AC is not just broken, she is shattered …
There are two basic types of people in this world.
1 – those who look for excuses NOT to do one shiite …except lime, fete and sleep (and their repatoire of excuses are extensive and impressive…)
2 – those who look for opportunities to achieve things. Such persons take risks with their time, their money, family, even their lives ….and often reap great rewards by taking such risks.
Take one guess only, ..as to where we can expect brass bowls to fall in this categorisation…..
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WW&C, first of all thank you for the non-Trump retort. LOLL. And to the substantive point of disagreement. I do not dispute your point about the vagaries of the weather but its not realistic or practical to conflate situations of 50+ years ago to today’s robust and more exact technology.
Whether the tracker plane could get back to the storm or not is irrelevant. Based on that era (type buildings and infrastructure) the entire island should have been in a State of Emergency as soon as the reports indicated that Janet was trending towards BIM.
No last minute or updated reporting should have been a reference point of action or prediction. Not in 1955 when we did NOT have that type of storm shutters and other strong safety precautions and not in 2016 either.
All folks 60 years ago should have gotten their dry goods comestibles from the shop, gone to the strongest house in the family group and hunkered down. Period.
Fast forward to the modern era. Every Mary and John can track a storm from a PC in their hands that is more powerful that the frigging computers that NASA used to send men to the moon. We are advanced with tech and we are much stronger with infrastructure. Quite so!
We can see every change in the storm track and its increasing speeds/force. We can immediately understand the expected damage from high sea waves. There are details, details details. One last run by a tracker plane cannot be the difference between life and death. No way.
There has been no natural disaster that I can recall in recent memory which was not basically mapped before our eyes on cable or otherwise.
NYC/NJ ‘perfect storm’ where there was a confluence of various natural events that created the havoc that was Sandy. The prior info on that was comprehensive.
Katrina in Louisiana and across the Gulf was well mapped…no sensible people died because of not heeding warnings or because of insensitive employers. They died primarily from flooding due to the failed flood barriers and other operational or structural problems.
No one questions the unpredictability of mother nature but there were absolutely no echoes of Janet here in my view.
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@Old Baje
Have you not been following the discussion?
There is a protocol.
There is no law to support.
Yes, the practice is if the public sector shuts down private sector will follow.
The recent decision by a few businesses confirm the view -not supported by former AG Dale Marshall -that the shutdown order needs to be supported in law. If not it may create problems how force majeure clauses are interpreted.
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“Family-owned businesses that wish to open during state-declared national shutdowns should be allowed to do so without penalty, prominent businessman Ralph Bizzy Williams has said.
However, the chairman of Williams Industries Incorporated said if such businesses employ people from outside the family, those employees should not be forced to report for work if there were a state order to stay home.”
Bizzy is one of my favorite piñatas, but here is where I agree.., employers are free to get their own families killed or injured in a storm…but leave other employees alone to be with their families…if they stupidly volunteer and get killed or injured…their bad,,, they are liable for themselves.
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http://www.barbadostoday.bb/2016/10/01/dont-penalize-businesses-says-bizzy/
Pedant…what do you think about this opinion.
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“We can see every change in the storm track and its increasing speeds/force. We can immediately understand the expected damage from high sea waves. There are details, details details. One last run by a tracker plane cannot be the difference between life and death. No way.”
Yes it can…the storm trackers specifically warn you NOT to depend on internet satellite imagery fir accuracy….because they are updated minute by minute by real storm trackers….and kne change by the storm can mean the dufference between life and death…if the hurricane hunter cannot get into a storm…all bets are off.
They always warn you and expect that ya intelligent enough to listen.
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Pedant…if you go into barbadostoday or nationnews archives…ya will see the warnings.
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@ac October at 7:12 AM re “why have you opt to you remove parts of the last sentence..”——
Here I am doing my broken clock ting again and agreeing with Mr Bushtea, “AC is … shattered”.
Ok so this is how ‘ellipses’ (three dots) work in an educated world. When used in the middle of a long quote it means that the dots stand in for the part of the sentence that is not relevant to the point being made. At NO time should there be any attempt to reinterpret the original statement or cast a different view by removing the words for which the ellipses are used.
So sir/madam if I say “AC is … shattered” and intentional remove “is not just broken” I have not twisted or reinterpreted de Bushman’s remarks about you. I simply want to focus on the part I cited.
Good lawd man, how does the part I intentionally removed (…the hue and cry from private sector would be loud hard and howling in the aftermath following a devastation those being ) to shorten the quote ‘cherry pick’ to make a ‘clever analysis’?
I did you a good service by removing very badly written verbiage which made the context more understandable and you COMPLAIN. Oh lawd!
You said: i would submit that if a law was fully in placed whereby govt could legally implement calls for a national shut down the hue and cry from private sector would be loud hard and howling in the aftermath following a devastation those being that govt having no right to intervene on the rights of private businesses hence the march to law courts for relief would be as ominous as the dark clouds on the day matthew made its way across barbados.”
I abbreviated as : “… i would submit that if a law was fully in placed whereby govt could legally implement calls for a national shut down … that govt having no right to intervene on the rights of private businesses hence the march to law courts for relief..”.
Please tell me what distress I caused to your assertion!!!
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A load of bullshit.
Any business owner who wants to supply goods or services in time of national emergency and any worker who wants to earn an extra day’s pay for helping him/her do it should be encouraged.
These sheep/sheepdog mentalities have brought this country to the brink of destruction.
We need more doers and less talkers to get us back on the path towards sustainable progress. Maybe we should start by putting some lawyers back to productive employment.
The morons making these decisions have never run a business in their lives; they are tax spenders, not tax earners.
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@David, re “how force majeure clauses are interpreted.” I have not read Dale’s view nor any other lawyer actually so I am intrigued by your remark, “Force majeure” itself is a tenant of law so how can it be “misinterpreted’ in the absence of any binding statue which may ‘defeat’ the principle???
Natural events would generally evoke that principle in certain cases but I can’t see how it could be evoked for example if any employee is mandated to go into work under the rules of this policy framework shutdown. Anyhow, hopefully Jeff or Amused can opine and educate us.
@WW&C, let’s agree to disagree re Janet and modern times. You appear to be suggesting that a nation will track a weather event from formation and use all the plane tracker details to prepare but then ONLY act based on some final trip of the plane tracker.
That is illogical to me. So let’s go our different ways.
Re Bizzy’s view (I didn’t read it) but generally I agree with the contention that he can get all his family members and even his employees who volunteer to come to ‘work’. Just as obviously if there is a disconnect between government mandates and his directives that can be resolved in the courts. This was not a State of Emergency but rather a recommended directive.
He along with Bynoe et al are citizens who proffer a high social connection to their fellow citizens so if they appear ‘callous’ and disdainful towards their government we should rightly question 1) their bona-fides or 2) those of the government. Either way the matter needs to be made clear.
The issue of employees being forced to come to work under those conditions is a matter for the unions and the government to resolve. It should not be an emotive blogging item.
Consider also that coming to work means different things. You may be doing so to help secure the company’s assets and property. I would expect a man of Bizzy’s experience to have pre-planned something like that so that said employees are the ones who can be away from their home without causing distress to their family.
Just as the government has an emergency action plan/framework so TOO do all serious businesses.
But if he is about just opening to sell a few more snack boxes to others who also disobey the government directives then he is being crass and despicable.
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@Frustrated Businessman at 8:26 AM, your view is accurate in the case of this policy framework shutdown folly. It is not in any way acceptable under a properly mandated State of Emergency.
Any business opening its operations under a legally binding directive not to do so should face the full weight of a unwavering legal system.
That’s is like the person who goes into the sea to ride the waves during very high winds of a storm and then many more people’s lives are endangered in trying to save his backside.
Are you like that thrill seeker and despite the clear danger of a declared ‘State of Emergency’ you yet ” want to supply goods or services in time of national emergency”. To whom exactly? Is yours a first responder/emergency services company?
Otherwise, surely you jest.
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@Dee Word
You just reinforced BU’s point.
Do you think the lack of legal clarity around this matter will prevent the army of lawyers from testing matters in our moribund court?
>
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“@WW&C, let’s agree to disagree re Janet and modern times. You appear to be suggesting that a nation will track a weather event from formation and use all the plane tracker details to prepare but then ONLY act based on some final trip of the plane trackers”
I saod no such thing…I said if ya hurricane hunter plane disappeared onside a hurricane….and you did not prepare and was not privy to the info the tracker plane provides….ala Hurrican Janet….38 dead…2000 homeless…ya ass is grass.
I said if ya hurricane tracking plane could not enter the storm and had to turn back,,, making critical updated information on the storm available to you. ..all bets are off…you should stay indoors or be exposed to the risks…that’s all I said.
I dont know ehere ya getting all the other crap ya coming up with from Pedant.., ya overthinking it again.
I coukd care less who gets their asses killed in a hurricane or storm trying to contradict or prove a useless point.
Next time there is a minus 47 degree snow storm in Canada…go to work why dont ya….when they call for national shutdown.
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I said if ya hurricane tracking plane could not enter the storm and had to turn back,,, making critical updated information on the storm UNAVAILABLE to you. …all bets are off.
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Frustrated…ya sounding like another paper hungry greedy businessman.
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And besides, having had 48 hours previous warning about the approaching system, friends told me that the supermarkets were jammed packed with people shopping for basic necessities…ah heard after that ya could not find beer…therefore the only necessities anyone would need after that would be secure windows, doors amd roofs.
Restaurants are not a basic necessity during a hurricane…neither supermarkets after ya have had 48 hours to do all ya shopping…..and cleaned them out.
Bynoe was just being greedy and Kellman and the Restaurants tjat opened were trying to compete for the most greedy prize.
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Yes David I agree with your overall contention.
@WW&C, from your past remarks I would imagine you are closer to Trump in age…because good heavens you certainly argue like him.
I said ‘You appear to be suggesting…’ that final actions are based on the final run of a storm tracker plane and not on the overall tracking and other info ALREADY received (to be precise). You said specifically, ‘if the hurricane hunter cannot get into a storm…all bets are off’.
Your full quote was, “Yes it can…the storm trackers specifically warn you NOT to depend on internet satellite imagery fir accuracy….because they are updated minute by minute by real storm trackers….and kne change by the storm can mean the dufference between life and death…if the hurricane hunter cannot get into a storm…all bets are off”
Those are your words. In response to my comment that “One last run by a tracker plane cannot be the difference between life and death. No way.”
Good gosh. Is Trumpian debate style now the de riguer method: disavow your own words regardless of the situation in order to assert your own sense of reality.
And you tell me “ya overthinking it again”.
Ok WW&C, you love to post and play word games of the illogical type; not discuss matters rationally. I forgot. I gone.
I’ll read you going forward. A lots of bright men couldn’t handle Trump on the campaign trail so I certainly will not fight his stylie and fashion here in the person of yourself. You will catspraddle me too. I gone.
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Pedant…all my points are provable. ..where is your proof to contradict otherwise.
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@Dee Word
This is the kind of codifying we should be discussing instead of the emotional claptrap. To ensure accountability is assured by representing all players acting in a disaster.
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“Volunteer time. Employees of private not-for-profit organizations are not volunteers if they perform the same services they are regularly employed to perform. They must be compensated for those services.”
“Employers should generally be cautious about having employees “volunteer” to assist the employer during an emergency, if those duties benefit the company and are duties regularly performed by employees.”
I have no clue where the fool employers in Barbados believe that employees “volunteering” during natural disasters is a good excuse to use to cover their lies of fircing employees out in dangerous storms or hurricanes…it’s not…it’s a sleazy excuse.
Having the employees make up time lost by incremental overtime spread over weeks after a disaster…makes better sense…PAID OVERTIME.
Employers in Barbados are too small time and sleazy…they are lucky they never had to deal with me…I would have them up before international world bodies in one.
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What an ignorant, sleazy little man…and that is a minister in the government….they may as well let the ACs govern…what’s the difference.
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@ David,
It is one thing for employees to go to work during a storm. What about the family members they leave at home?
I live in CANADA and I checked these web sites while listening to VOB929 and watching CBCTV 8.
nhc.noaa.gov and wunderground.com/hurricane/
It was obvious that the storm (400 miles wide) would affect Barbados. The DEM and MET office provide guidance based on their tracking of the storm.
These so called “responsible” business owners could use the technology available in 2016 to fact check the DEM and MET office.
They could also staff their businesses with their own family and extended family.
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Take care you are not describing yourself WW&C. Like AC, Kellman is bound to be right on occasion…
Bushie suspects that those cowards who hid under their beds listening to the radio and TV stations just feel guilty …knowing that a few others were out and about getting on with business in the absence of any legal or other definitive binding requirements to do otherwise.
One wonders how many of the ‘bedroom bullies’ wanted the electric and water utility employees to shut shop and go home to their safe beds too… and the radio announcers… and the nurses and policemen and shelter wardens… or did they want their lights on ..just as other customers wanted to get some essentials on Saturday morning…
One tires of this shiite topic now …. it is SO obvious that the discussion only serves to highlight why Bizzy, Bynoe and Kellman (and Bushie) run profitable businesses, while WW&C and AC only talk shiite on blogs ..while scrounging off others… and why they are headed for even more downgrades…
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Bushie you were probably running your “profitable business” from the comfort of your own secured and hurricane resistant home. lol
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Pros and cons aside,my view is that there should be no law demanding any business to close.Penalties for failure to follow government directives would have such bite that folk would think thrice before making any bold decisions.There are more weighty matters which require the urgent attention of the AG but which we know will remain on the back burner until next election and the 40% vote with a vengeance to shake up this poor rakey lot.
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In Times of Impending natural disasters call The Met Office
http://www.bush tea.com
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Lol…the Bushman…I bet you were in bed hugged up with ya laptop on BU giving the ACs old hell while Matthew was pissing outside ya locked windows.
My days are long passed to be chasing money, I let money chase me, I left that game long ago for the ultra greedy to get their stress, strokes and heart attacks….
The business people in the island have not yet learned that art…everytime they look at people, they see a potential dollar bill..slaves to paper they rarely enjoy….too miserable looking for the next bundle of paper.
Some I knew personally who did this for years are either sick, long gone, broke or just miserable….ah love my life.
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Is this a tempest in a teapot.
If the stores were opened and no one shopped, then no harm was done.
If the stores were opened and people shopped, then there was a need (by some).
To be a hero and a goat at the same time only shows the party divide.
At least we now have a chance to be on the same page for the next dire situation.
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Of course the workers should be allowed to stay home (if they wanted to).
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Hants October 1, 2016 at 10:53 AM #
It is one thing for employees to go to work during a storm. What about the family members they leave at home
……………………………………………………………….
Speaking from experience. You really think that many of the employers in Barbados care about their employees’ families?
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Exactly Colonel…they dont.
The employers worship the almighty dollar…whst family members what.
http://www.barbadostoday.bb/2016/09/30/just-for-a-few-dollars-more/
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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/hurricane-matthew-roars-caribbean-article-1.2813833
Mother Nature.
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If Barbadians are not heeding the directives issued by the authorities it creates an opportunity to be better with a Communications Plan. We need to stop the blame game and figure out how to improve decision making when in disaster mode. It is unfortunate Dale Marshall of the BLP and AG Brathwaite seem to be singing from different hymn sheets. All national discussions in Barbados deteriorate to polical claptrap.
http://www.barbadosadvocate.com/columns/editorial-trusting-experts
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@ David,
The people who live in big wall house and drive audi,bmw and mercedes SUVs don’t need to follow directives.
A Cat 1 hurricane will only affect those who live in wood houses and drive corollas and micras.
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I read Bizzy saying family owned businesses should be allowed to open and non family employees given the option to work.
Seriously!!!
The typical Bajan employee would go to work “cause de boss man an he family wukkin tru de storm so we shud be wukkin to”
Ingrained subservience.
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Before we attempt toget the merchants to comply with a government directive ,lets practice on the following, to gain some experience in dealing with these hard nosed merchant class.
Get ZR and Minibus operators to respect the law.
Get bicyclists to respect the law.
Get motorcyclists to respect the law.
Get motorists to respect the law.
Get the owners of AK47, Glocks and Collins to respect the law.
Get the Marijauna farmers and distributors and their foot soldiers to respect the law.
Get the crop thieves to respect the law.
Get building contractors to respect the law.
Get Government minister(s) to respect the law
Get coconut and wayside vendors to respect the law.
Get the Swan Street shop keepers to respect the law in relation to dumping their garbage on the street, hours before the passage of a storm.
And the list goes on and on and on. We have failed miserably in getting people in this country, whether they live in a great house, mansion or timber shack to respect and comply with the laws of our land.
Who are in charge ? We are practically on the brink of anarchy. We are hearing more from the law breakers ,than the lawmakers.
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@ Colonel Buggy ,
point taken.
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@ All
Well for all of you who are concerned about these issues of whether we should have closed places of employment because of a pending measly 40 mph storm or try to make a dollar in these hard economic times here is an item that will put all your minds at ease.
Remember that there is an edition soon to be published that is featuring every one of the 16 ministers and Senators to whom this almost 50 year old cuntry can attribute why we are where we are AFTER 8 YEARS OF FECUNDITY
Presenting for your ongoing pleasure The Minister of Wuk Ups who joins all the other ministers, fecundities and waste foops as they wuk up happily on our pooches without grease
Cum leh we wuk up and have a good time.
Next Wuk Up Day Independence Day and the 50th $7 Million Spree
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WHAT IF ?
What if Matthew had come a-visiting on Kadooment Day? We would have more than a few businesses ignoring the shutdown, and especially those ” poor little black people trying to mek a dollar.”
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wtf is happening in Barbados?
“man is believed to have died from a single gunshot to the back of the head.”
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@Hants
What do you mean, Barbados has the lowest murder rate per thousand compared to Jamaica, Trinidad, Bahamas and God knows the other countries.
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“Cuban President Raul Castro has travelled to the eastern city of Santiago to supervise preparations for the storm.”
An exerpt from a BU newsfeed.
>
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@ David,
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/PM-tours-MoBay-ahead-of-Hurricane-Matthew
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http://www.barbadostoday.bb/2016/10/02/search-for-missing-man-ends-in-tragedy/
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AOne sorry for opening
http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/87615/aone-sorry
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“Bernard Codrington. September 30, 2016 at 9:09 PM #
@ Bush Tea
You have perfect 20/ 20 hind sight. If Matthew had developed into a Hurricane 1 status when it reached Barbados”
Unlike 1955 when we relied on iffing there should be no iffing in this day age when there is so much advanced related technology to influence information gathering. No disrespect to those who try their best under difficult circumstances to do their job but like Bushie I think we went too far overboard taking the weather data on which decisions were made into account.
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http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/87615/aone-sorry
When a man has commonsense and can admit he his prone to errors, he can be easily forgiven, cause you know it is highly unlikely he will repeat that error.
Big difference to arrogant, ignorant ministero0 of government Dennis Kellman.
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http://www.barbadostoday.bb/2016/10/02/search-for-missing-man-ends-in-tragedy/
Another execution.
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Pingback: The Jefferson Cumberbatch Column – On Weather Emergency Management | Barbados Underground
In another section of the press mention was made that Carlton &A1, Lemon Grass and a popular fast food chain had opened during the shut down. I find it strange that only certain business were identified while others such as the Moon Town “Mall”were not ……
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Enquiring minds want to know if Housing Minister Denis Kellman is a Minister of the Crown or a shopkeeper .The coverage gives the impression his time is taken up with running a shop rather than a minister’s portfolio. The question arises as to whether he can lawfully operate a variety store while he is a Minister of the Crown. Civil servants say General Orders prohibit them from operating businesses while in the employ of the government. What are the rules as they apply to ministers. Jeff Cumberbatch and Mia what about you Thorne and Speaker Carrington, anyone. Just asking.
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What is there of any substance to do at Housing? The ministry has no money and is saddled with mainly remedial work that the admin/public servants are capable of executing.
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@ Tudor
ammmmmmmm.
You does read de paper Tudor?
Which “popular fast food chain (that) had opened during the shut down” does got Full Page ads in de Nation every day???
You like you want Roy to loss he pick at Fontabelle and tek way de ole man chance uh getting Winston Jordon job when he retire!!!
Match and win dat 1000 dollar prize dat de ole man does run heah pun BU for 1,000 dollars in used plastic forks dat people only lick once when they buy their Wing Dings specials.
Ninjaman tell me de amount of times de forks get lick so you safe to leh de family and visitors use dem ovah without having any fears of sickness.
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Astonishingly , even Mrs Ram did not see it profitable to call out her low paid staff and open up her stores last Wednesday.
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‘It’s a total disaster’ …Hurricane Matthew lashes Haiti
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Proof that Kellman is retarded…..Most sentences include..
1….for the semple reason dat…….
2….yuh muss onderstan de Opportunity Cost
3….yuh see,yuh have to be very careful dat……
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WHAT IS REALLY RETARDED BY THOSE SENTENCES?
HOW DO YOU DEFINE RETARDED? WHAT PARAMETERS DO YOU USE? BU INDIXES?
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Maybe just before he got that bullet to the back of the head he was sorry as ass that all of that sweet money was spent on high powered legal representation…and still a bullet to the back of the head. I wondered if at that time he thought that he would have been better off spending no money and instead had taken his 15 years in an American jail…because’ all like now he would be walking ’boutfree as a bird …instead of heading down to Westbury.
But when ya mek a deal wid de devil…
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” MIDWEEK NATION investigations have revealed that the pay of workers at Divi Southwinds BeachResort was dockedafter they did notreport for work last Wednesday, following a directive from the Department of Emergency Management (DEM) for businessesto remain closed andfor persons to stay indoors.”
http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/87706/wages-docked-shut#sthash.XY4Po1YU.dpuf
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David
Could you print the link to Roy Morris’article in todays midweek nation…….it basically substantiates the point I was making earlier about the shutdown and commonsense.
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@Vincent
Here is the link:
http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/87697/public-kellmanomics >
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EMPLOYMENT FRAUD, AND THE REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH FROM MEN TO WOMEN IN CANADA
Every year, the Canadian tax code takes billions of dollars from men and gives it to women for their support and for so-called child care.
There are additional one-offs:
RCMP Commissioner Bob Paulson delivered an abject apology Thursday to hundreds of current and former female officers and employees who were subjected to alleged incidents of bullying, discrimination and harassment dating back 42 years.
Paulson made the apology as he announced the settlement of two class-action lawsuits stemming from the harassment allegations, some of which date back to September 1974. He said the federal government has earmarked $100 million for payouts
“To all the women, I stand humbly before you today and solemnly offer our sincere apology,” an emotional Paulson told a news conference in Ottawa.
‘We failed you. We hurt you’: Text of apology from RCMP commissioner Bob Paulson
RCMP to offer settlement to hundreds of female Mounties who alleged abuse
“You came to the RCMP wanting to personally contribute to your community and we failed you. We hurt you. For that, I am truly sorry.”
Paulson said the settlements would provide financial compensation for the women and pave the way to end potential class-action lawsuits brought forward by former RCMP members Janet Merlo and Linda Gillis Davidson. There is no cap on the potential cost of the payouts, he added.
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