The Case of Michael Springer QC Versus the Barbados Bar Association
Last Friday, the case of Michael Springer QC versus Barbados Bar Association came on for hearing. BU now reports on what transpired.
Mr Springer QC has always been a member of the BA, but his payment of dues have been without VAT and accepted and receipts issued to Mr Springer by the BA. In 2015, Mr Springer tendered his payment by cheque to the BA, without VAT, which was presented for payment and paid into the BA. Approximately 6 months later, Mr Springer received a cheque from the BA purporting to be the refund of his fees on the basis that the BA could not accept his payment and membership without VAT. Mr Springer’s name has been removed from the BA’s list of members. Mr Springer served the BA with a pre-action protocol letter, advising that if they did not reverse their position, he would be commencing legal proceedings. As usual, at the start of this year, Mr Springer tendered his payment to the BA minus VAT, payment that the BA refused to accept. Mr Springer filed legal proceedings against the BA.
Mr Vernon Smith QC appeared for Mr Springer and Ms Cecily Chase QC appeared for the BA.
Mr Smith submitted to the Court that the BA had not filed a defence in accordance with the Civil Procedure Rules and therefore did not have the right to make any submissions. Ms Chase advised the Court that this was due to a failure on her part and asked for indulgence and leave to file a defence and Mr Smith agreed to this and it was ordered that Ms Chase would be given latitude to file a defence.
Mr Smith asked for his costs of the appearance in any event. The Court ordered that the BA pay Mr Smith’s costs no later than this Thursday.
Mr Smith submitted that the BA had failed to produce to the Court and Mr Springer a resolution by two thirds of its membership authorising that the action be defended in accordance with the BA’s Rules, without which the BA lacks the authority to pay Mr Smith’s costs. The Court ordered that by this coming Thursday the BA must produce such a resolution.
BU has reported that Mr Smith himself has sued the BA on essentially the same subject matter and this case is pending. Mr Smith’s case also ties in to his action against Marston Gibson. Smith vs Gibson was adjourned to Monday 11 April and commences hearing on that date, provided the Registrar has set it down – and if she has not, she will have provided grounds for Mr Smith to bring proceedings against her and to make a formal complaint to the Prime Minister, as the scheduling of hearings is the province of Gibson as Chief Justice and a failure to set down an adjourned matter will be seen as an abuse of power, since Gibson is himself the defendant. It is further noted that Gibson has not filed a defence.
BU has not been able to obtain the latest copy of the Official Gazette. The Registrar has a statutory duty to advertise the names of all attorneys to whom practicing certificates have been issued. It will be recalled that last year the Registrar barely missed being sued in a class action by attorneys who opt either not to pay VAT on their BA dues, or simply not to be members of the BA, when the Registrar omitted their names from the list in the Official Gazette of names of attorneys to whom practicing certificates had been issued. So we now wait to see if the Registrar has carried out her statutory duty – or not.
It has been observed that Mr Barry Gale QC, who seems to have set this whole ball rolling when he was president of the BA, appears to be doing his best to distance himself from anything to do with the administration of the BA.
Barbados Underground 
I am yet to see it argued, but until I am convinced otherwise, I will hold to the view that the section of the Legal Profession Act that requires compulsory membership in the Bar Association is unconstitutional (section 44). Freedom of association is enshrined in the Barbados Constitution. The Legal Profession Act does not give a choice to lawyers. That would be allowed if the Legal Profession Act was saved by section 26 of the Constitution. The Legal Profession Act could not have been saved by section 26 because that act was only passed in 1974. Further, it was not repealing and re-enacting the same provision that existed prior to November 30, 1966 and could not be saved on those conditions either.
Over to you Amused.
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The following note was received by BU, we have not been able to verify.
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So, they cant get this issue of vat or no vat settled that has been going on for years, how are they expected to have the skills to fix a broken system.
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Solved by BU in a matter of seconds.
In 201, the new fees will be the equivalent of the old fees + vat. No vat will be charged on the new fees.
How are you WW&C?
I am still smiling at the phrase that went like this “they can sense if you are packing”
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*2016
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Gazer…glad to see your brain is as sharp as ever…lol
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@Casewell. You have stated your views very well – lawyer-like. But that issue is not argued here and will need to be argued by attorneys who choose not to associate, as, I agree, is their constitutional right.
The thrust of this report is whether VAT is payable on BA dues or not. Neither Mr Springer nor Mr Smith have refused to associate. They have merely provided their legal opinions that VAT is not chargeable and directed the BA to the relevant authority which, in my humble opinion is, like their position, unassailable. They have tendered their cheques to the BA and had them returned. The BA is not the collection agent of Customs and Excise and can only take what is owed to the BA and then report the non-payment of VAT to Customs and Excise for Customs and Excise to bring the matter before the Courts. I note that this all started when Alair Shepherd was president of the BA and was brought to a head by Barry Gale, either of whom, had they not been apparently indulging in ego….hubris….and sought an opinion from senior counsel in the jurisdiction from which our VAT Act is taken almost verbatim.
Instead of that, the BA has waged a campaign that persuaded the idiot we have as a chief justice to effectively disbar Mr Smith without due process. Even the Disciplinary Committee cannot disbar or discipline counsel. It requires due process in the Court of Appeal. As for Mr Springer, by removing his name from their website and refusing his cheque, they have effectively defamed him as well.
I was watching the BBC just a couple of days ago and have since tried unsuccessfully to find an Internet site on which the programme might be available to send to David. In this programme, a well known investment expert and counsellor was explaining the basis of law and practice in relation to the Panamanian off-shore investors. He opined that any investors he had advised would first need to be assured of the judicial standing of the country they were to invest in. He stated that the general rule of thumb in his business was at least that the country have as its final court of appeal the Privy Council, but preferably that they be British protectorates, like BVI and Cayman. Until about 2005, Barbados met the minimum requirement and prospered greatly as a result. Now it does not prosper and, until the minimum requirement is met, is unlikely to. If you add to this the stupidity of the BA, the arrogant idiocy of the Chief Justice and the massive backlog of cases and unconstitutional time it takes, once heard, for a decision to be rendered, what we think is bad now is going to be seen in hindsight as a dawdle in the park. And the problem we as Bajans face is that this will likely result in our beloved country being turned into a safe haven for criminals and their enterprises and there goes our way of life. And this ties right in to @David April 9, 2016 at 2:33 PM. It also highlights the very difficult choice we have waiting for us at the next elections. Out of a pretty pathetic field of choice, who will we trust as to personal integrity and basic decency? I have made my choice already and it is not for a party of whips and teeth marks.
It is a given that Gibson has to go and I have already performed my mea culpas for supporting him in the first place. That said, I thought that the concept of an external appointment was a very good way forward…..pity about who got chosen. The problem now is that after the Gibson experience, I doubt that any political party would be willing to support the appointment of an external CJ. Unfortunately, the field of judges available is, except with one possible exception, not right for the job. In fact, in my view there is only one member of the Bench who could do the job. Equally, I cannot think of a single attorney who could do the job. The problem is that, with few exceptions and no reality at all, most of them think they can, focussing rather of the position and standing, rather than the job itself. The judge I am thinking of as the only local person who might be right, may by no means be prepared to put themselves through the enormous deck stacked against them.
It is true that we live in interesting times, but I certainly wish that they could be a lot less depressing.
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Do the members of other Professional Organisations e.g. Doctors, Engineers pay VAT on their annual fees ?
In my region of the Sunny North HST (similar to VAT) is payable on Lawyers and Paralegal fees, “Amused” is always quoting precedent in other Countries esp. Canada why should it be different in Bim?
https://www.lsuc.on.ca/For-Lawyers/About-Your-Licence/Paying-Your-Law-Society-Fees/
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Amused..remember you are my hypothetical husband, so you cant stay mad at me for long…lol
When they stop making the post of chief justice a political appointment…that is when you will get better candidates.
In my opinion and I could be wrong, the deck was stacked against Gibson before he accepted the post, now he knows….the pit he was invited to manage…. Thompson’s eagerness to rid the supreme court of Simmons was the goal.
Again, political interference is poisonous to any taxpayer funded entity, particularly when there are no checks and balances in place to monitor anything.
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@Sargeant. Yes, you pay VAT on the fees you pay to lawyers – they are conducting a business. However, lawyers (and other professions) do not pay VAT on their dues to a statutory organisation that does not and lacks the authority to, conduct a business. The VAT Act is not taken from Canada, but from the UK – so is the precedent – see http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld199899/ldjudgmt/jd990325/insti.htm. Then, have a look at Section 10 of the VAT Act. You can find it online. Also, where do you get the idea from that I concentrate on Canadian precedent? I might suggest in matters of corporate law that one ought to look to Canadian precedent, but that is because our Companies Act is taken from the Canada Corporations Act 1975.
@Well well. I am not mad at you. As for what you have said, with the advantage of hindsight, I cannot disagree with you, except on maybe very minor points. For instance, I do not think that the deck was stacked against Gibson. While it is true that many disagreed with changing the Constitution, everyone was hopeful that counsel could once again be able to charge fees and make a little (or a lot of) money. Gibson’s academic qualifications, on paper, made him seem to be a reasonable choice. The fact that he was external appeared to put him outside of the “political appointment” range. Unfortunately, as we all ought to have known, academic qualifications simply do not stack up against (or without) practical experience. As for the political aspect, well I think that point has been well settled by Gibson himself. In a nutshell – good idea, wrong person.
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Lord have mercy Sargeant, it is that simple?
There has to be something more abstruse and abstract operating in BIM to have stretched this matter on for the past two decades or so and rendered the legal minds here incapable of a resolution of the problem.
Will wait to see what happens,
I may be out of date but as far as I know, VAT is not paid by Engineers on membership fees of BAPE but I don’t know about doctors and BAMP.
Engineers don’t need to be members of BAPE (fee $300 last time I checked) so BAPE can’t claim to be providing a service …. but … in order to practice and charge fees they have to be Registered, $2500, and that is paid directly to the Government.
No VAT on either sum as far as I know at least, I never paid any VAT or was asked to.
It is thus possible for an Engineer to be registered and practice his/her profession but not be a member of the Barbados Association of Professional Engineers.
Also vice versa.
An engineer can be a member of BAPE and not be Registered.
He/she can’t charge a fee for the practice of his/her profession.
If Lawyers have to be members of the BAR then you could say the BAR is providing a service without which the lawyer could not practice which is completely different from an Engineer.
Don’t know how it works for doctors.
I may be out of date but that was my understanding since 1987 regarding BAPE.
It is clear that you cannot compare one profession with the other and try to make sense of nonsense.
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http://vat-help.co.uk/how-membership-vat-works/
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Amused…based on the precedent you posted, why can’t either side, putting aside the egos and arrogance, arrive at at a solution, one way or the other. The precedent is very clear.
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I presume the ongoing issue is still whether Bar Association is legally able to collect vat from attorneys and they have not all since changed the argument, right…lol
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I used to belong to the Institution of Electrical Engineers (IEE), a UK body of Engineers membership of which conferred chartered status.
That started in 1978 when I graduated.
I can’t remember if I paid VAT but an invoice will turn up and I will be able to say categorically if I did or did not pay VAT.
Maybe I got an exemption as an overseas member.
A few years ago the IEE became the IET, a UK membership body for electrical engineers and technicians.
http://www.theiet.org/membership/profreg/fees/
Looks as though I would have been paying VAT to the UK body unless as an overseas member I got an exemption.
So, the UK position for electrical engineers is quite simple …. yes, they pay VAT on membership dues.
Why is this an issue before the local court?
Isn’t it common sense that the membership body does provide a benefit /service which is vatable?
… means we local Engineers may soon have to start paying VAT too!!
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What a monumental waste of time and abuse of process!!
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Amused says the BA is not a collection agency for Customs and therefore should collect their fee and let Customs take the nonpayment of Vat to court.Seems illogical to me.The question is;has the BA applied and received a Vat Registration Number.If so they had better collect the Vat and pay it into Customs within the stipulated period.Both Springer and Smith are difficult and both have been given a dose of exposure in More Binding.Birds of a feather.
By suggesting you are not voting for whips and teeth,you are a dem den!No surprise there.
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Amused
Re: Your 4:02 p.m. comment.
I think the point of compulsory membership of the Bar Association is relevant. If lawyers were not forced to be members of the association, the question of paying VAT would be moot.
I well remember Vernon Smith saying that the Bar Association was a trade union, and I speak subject to correction, that VAT is not paid on union dues. Mind you, I do not agree that the Bar Association is a trade union even if some of its functions might appear to be union like. In order to be a trade union a body must be registered under the Trade Union Act.
Sent from my iPad
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No wonder the court system is dysfunctional in Bim. Simply look at the decisions written at the SC: 50 % of the text consists of CUT AND PASTE from court rules, foreign judgements and textbooks, not to forget the lengthy description of the facts. These lengthy description lacks any focus on the single case. It reveals a lack of legal practice, a lack of professional efficiency and a lack of judicial experience. It reveals why Bim is falling back on the HDI scale, on the economic scale and in every credit rating.
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Toron
You have hit the nail on the head.If Chaucer appeared before a judge in Barbados today,he would feel at home in the convoluting language adorning our laws.Owen Arthur,a visionary still living,breathing and mixing common sense with educated and informed comment,tried in the early 90’s to bring reform not only to the Civil Service but to some of our archaic and confusing laws especially those relating to real estate transactions,but was stymied and blocked by the army of occupation especially those who would re write our laws.A threat to their livelihood they said because if Arthur had his way,straight forward transactions would take a few days only and lay persons would be enfranchised.
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Tron,
I am afraid that what you describe is the legal method. The facts as stated by the judge are the facts of the case, not what the claimant said they were; not what the defendant said they were, but what the court has found them to be on the evidence.
Second, since legal solutions are generally based on the interpretation of relevant statutes and case law precedent, it is necessary to refer to these so as to ensure that the decision is not overturned on appeal as having been given per incuriam or without reference to relevant material.
Perhaps more oral judgments are needed…except where the parties require that a written judgment be given
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I will say again, the professionals in Barbados are displaying antisocial behavior when they can agree on nothing, solve nothing and continue to want everthing to remain a tangled mess…England saw theirs heading in that direction years ago and fixed it as they moved along, everything legal is copied from England, why not copy what they did to make the necessary changes, as it seems that none of the professionals, loaded with swollen egos and arrogance have any original ideas for change and have to copy and paste everything from somewhere or someone else. The US also fix their archaic messes as they move along, only in the Caribbean professionals feel threatened if the population is enfranchised….because they cannot enrich themselves if a tangled mess is not representative of the legal system…..what would psychiatrist s call that state of mental fck up.
This deserves a serious case study of the psychological kind.
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I don’t know if a psychiatrist would have the word but at school in physics we were taught about systems with high levels of entropy!!
en·tro·py
/ˈentrəpē/
noun
noun: entropy; plural noun: entropies; symbol: S
Physics
a thermodynamic quantity representing the unavailability of a system’s thermal energy for conversion into mechanical work, often interpreted as the degree of disorder or randomness in the system.
lack of order or predictability; gradual decline into disorder.
“a marketplace where entropy reigns supreme”
synonyms: deterioration, degeneration, crumbling, decline, degradation, decomposition, breaking down, collapse; More
disorder, chaos
“life is a struggle against entropy”
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a thermodynamic quantity representing the unavailability of a system’s thermal energy for conversion into mechanical work, often interpreted as the degree of disorder or randomness in the system.
I love that expression!!
Sums up Barbados …. loads of hot air but incapable of doing any work!!
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“life is a struggle against entropy”…true.
But…
What do you call the practice of entropy for self-enrichment and to secure and ensure the disenfranchisement of the population.
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Philip Nicholls is not a psychiatrist but here is his assessment of Vernon Smith.
Quoted from his book, More Binding than Marriage”:
“As I have come to learn, this is a tactic of his, which no doubt fuels his ego because he revels in the inconvenience and pain he causes others. It is typical of his narcissistic behavior. Quite frankly, I have come to the conclusion that he is mad.”
Me, I reckon it is all about self enrichment.
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Self-enrichment…possibly flavored with madness, if one looks at the behaviors mirror image of many of those in the system who should be fighting off entropy as opposed to embracing the destructive end result, you can see a pattern.
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*mirror image behaviors…
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”Jeff Cumberbatch April 10, 2016 at 7:12 AM # Tron, I am afraid that what you describe is the legal method. The facts as stated by the judge are the facts of the case, not what the claimant said they were; not what the defendant said they were, but what the court has found them to be on the evidence.
Second, since legal solutions are generally based on the interpretation of relevant statutes and case law precedent, it is necessary to refer to these so as to ensure that the decision is not overturned on appeal as having been given per incuriam or without reference to relevant material.
And that people need to re and re-read. Tron’s suggestion is not the solution, rather, it IS amply demonstrates the real and underlying issue.
A complete lack of understanding of legal issues and the law, by many / most. Unfortunately, I suspect that such includes many lawyers (not all) too, that IS the issue.
To be blunt, you cant cut glass with a stone, you cut it with a diamond.
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@Casewell. While I agree that the matter of Section 44 of the Constitution and the unconstitutionality of the Act needs to be addressed, I believe that in BU’s report on Mr Smith’s pleadings, although he mentions s. 44, he states that he is not pleading it, because his action is not based on whether he must be a BA member, but on the fact that he is willing to be a BA member, but not to pay VAT. I have not seen Mr Springer’s pleadings, but common sense and experience dictates that they very likely make the same argument. I agree with you that the Act is unconstitutional. But obtaining a declaration of the courts on that would require that dissenting attorneys and I believe there are over 60 such, file a class action seeking such a declaration.
@John. I have found your opinions very difficult to understand and follow and I am not a stupid man – not brilliant, but not stupid either. I must assume that you are trying desperately to discover some way to disagree with the Springer-Smith position, clearly motivated by what certainly appears to be your very personal and oft-demonstrated (here on BU) hatred for anything to do with Mr Smith. At some time, you may like to put us all out of our misery and explain to us whence springs this almost pathological hatred, or find yourself a good psychiatrist to assist you with your problem. I agree with you that it is a monumental waste of time, but my agreement with you goes no further than that and is based on the sole fact that there were abundant opportunities to avoid it by the BA and the CJ. As far as it being an abuse of process, it is very clear that you do not understand in the slightest what constitutes an abuse of process. An abuse of process is where someone deliberately and maliciously attempts to pervert court process, usually by means of bringing a meritless, frivilous and groundless action. Depending on the degree of the abuse, courts have been known to even order costs against the attorney in question. What we have here, regardless of your apparently boundless pathological dislike of Mr Smith, are well-grounded actions, fully supported – not hearsay and speculation and unsupported/unsupportable accusations. There is no abuse of process here.
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Next thing you will be saying the CCJ operated out of hatred as must Philip Nicholls too!!!
Mr. Smith feels the CCJ engaged in a diatribe.
Here is what wiki has to say about the meaning of the word diatribe.
a forceful and bitter verbal attack against someone or something.
“a diatribe against the Roman Catholic Church”
synonyms: tirade, harangue, onslaught, attack, polemic, denunciation, broadside, fulmination, condemnation, censure, criticism; More
Do you think Mr. Smith’s assessment that the CCJ engaged in a harangue or diatribe or tirade or fulmination against him?
If so, do you think it could be indicative of a narcissistic streak Philip Nicholls referred to?
Do you think the CCJ engaged in a diatribe too and did so out of hatred for Mr. Smith?
You see I am sure I can come up with a term for people who when confronted with facts about their errant behaviours believe they are being in some way victimized out of hatred.
… and I am not even a psychiatrist, I just have pretensions of being a physicist.
However, when a lawyer, Philip Nicholls, states someone is mad you have to take note because lawyers and doctors supervise the committal of persons thus afflicted.
Time will reveal if I have surmised correctly!!
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@ John
Entropy is the natural inclination of all matter to tend towards chaos and disorder unless acted upon by intelligent external forces (Bushie’s summary)
It is therefore unfair to use that as Barbados’s main affliction at this time…
Ours is more directly related to ‘brass bowlery’
/brass bowl uh rie/
noun
noun: brass bowlery ; plural noun: Brass bowleries; symbol: S***
Meaning
….a state of ignorance based on deliberately persisting to do shiite…while seriously expecting improvement;
…of adopting unnatural self-constraints in order to meet other people’s standards;
…of ignoring your strengths and concentrating on your weaknesses because your enemies say you should…
synonyms: shiite, idiocy, buffoonery, Froon, Stinkliar, BLP, DLP, Bajan political class; AC, Dribble….
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Unless the BA is Vat registered , and has a VAT registration number, and issues an invoice showing that number and the amount of Vat charged on the invoice, the whole practice of them “collecting” Vat from Members is illegal . My Gosh, they are Lawyers, should they not know this? Can the head Of the Vat Department not make a statement to this effect.? Has the BA paid in to the Vat department , all monies collected from members, for Vat? If so, how? (If they are not Vat registered) if they haven’t, where is this money?
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@John. What is it with you and Smith!!???? Many have commented on it before, but not asked you the question why. What is the problem? You seem incoherent with rage. It is obviously consuming you. Why? Tell us all. You are already on record as being one of the “get Vernon Smith” brigade, so don’t hide behind the complaints of others, tell us your story. It sounds fascinating. Maybe Nicholls’ publisher would be willing to publish your book – I gather their address is a post office box in Oistins. I have not bought nor read Nicholls’ book and I don’t undertake to buy or read yours either, but I have no doubt that I will be regaled with reports about it and, who knows, may even decide to order my own copy.
BTW, I have grave doubts about the soundness of far too many CCJ decisions and utterances and, from the point of view of foreign investments, I think we made a fatal error in replacing the Privy Council. If there is a way to return to the Privy Council, it would really boost our credibility as a sound investment place. As far as Smith and the CCJ is concerned, I believe that the CCJ was in serious legal error on that one and that error from our final court of appeal is affecting us badly financially. This is not guesswork on my part, but after discussions on that and other decisions of the CCJ that I consider highly suspect with leading counsel around the world. Counsel who play a large part in the investment decisions of their uber-wealthy clients and Barbados is not on their radar for many reasons, of which that is one.
Also, I may be totally wrong of course, but I have a very strong feeling that the CCJ might just resent your having put them in the same category of legal expertise as Philip Nicholls.
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Give us a break Amused…. apart from you and Hal Gollop …who the hell likes Smith?
The man has made it his life’s mission to gather as many haters as is possible – and he has been at it for a long time…
He will likely continue for much longer too… cause only the good die young (and those who Karma HAD to fix up early…)
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Oh Lordy, now BT hates Smith too!!!
Poor Smitty!!
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@Bushie. Smith seems to be counsel on every major case. So, is that a tribute to his professional skills or do many more people than you know like him…..or both? The trouble with being a very successful attorney is that every time you win a case, the other side, instead of realising that it is nothing personal and that you are merely carrying out your professional duties, believes it is your fault that they lost and hatred takes over. Also, every time you advise your clients that they have a cause of action for something and they instruct you to proceed and you win for them, there will always be a faction that calls it shit disturbing on your part. Then, if you take action on your own behalf and win, that too is considered shit disturbing. It is a professional hazard that simply has to be borne. I clearly have been a shit disturber all my life, but I have more than my share of good friends and a lot of people also like me – you even like me when I am agreeing with you – but there are many who cannot stand my guts and I am quite content to live with that. I am sure that Smith is the same. Hey, as you pointed out, I like him – erudite, global thinker, a genuine friend, patriot, tremendous integrity and a wicked sense of humour. Ticks all the boxes for me. If it doesn’t work for you, fair enough.
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For heavens’ sake Amused, I don’t hate Mr. Smith, I just dealing in facts.
I note he performed pretty dismally against Philip Nicholls and the CCJ toasted him twice that I know of.
BTW, has he ever won at CCJ?
…. I know, I know …. you don’t think much of them!!
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… toasted should really be roasted …!!!!
Slip of the keyboard
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Bushie
It is not only Gollop and Amused. I don’t know if he likes me or not but I have high regard for Vernon Smith. He taught me Maths and Latin when I first entered Combermere. And as a matter of fact, he represented me in a court case and we won. Mind you, it was not a hard case, I was innocent or very nearly. LOL!
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I don’t think highly of the CCJ either. They do some very questionable work, most notably, Winton Campbell and the Myrie cases. They are responsible for the devastation that Government is wreaking in the public services of Barbados.
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Some of you might not be aware the CCJ follow BU on Twitter.
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@ Amused April 9, 2016 at 4:02 PM
“It is a given that Gibson has to go and I have already performed my mea culpas for supporting him in the first place. That said, I thought that the concept of an external appointment was a very good way forward…..pity about who got chosen. The problem now is that after the Gibson experience, I doubt that any political party would be willing to support the appointment of an external CJ. Unfortunately, the field of judges available is, except with one possible exception, not right for the job. In fact, in my view there is only one member of the Bench who could do the job.”
One wonders who is the anointed ONE deemed to be that “possible exception”.
Only one of them fits the bill. A man of the requisite academic achievement, intellectual substance and moral berthing is the man that should be chosen , right Amused?
How about William J C, aka Zacchaeus, a man of the people who still walks tall with his moral head in the air and his gift of commonsense firmly planted on the ground?
Would he receive your blessings, M’lud?
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I am glad to know that they follow BU, I want them to know that their judgments are mediocre.
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I did not like the Winton Campbell decision either but I know the guy and some of what went on so perhaps there was an element of subjectivity to my impressions.
To be quite honest I wasn’t even vaguely interested in the Myrie case so I really don’t have an opinion.
I see her husband is complaining she beat him!!
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LOL @ Caswell
Bushie did not forget you, but second form Latin does not really count.
Bushie was unaware of the court case…
Nobody EVER said Smith was incompetent – quite the contrary, just that he had a penchant for accumulating haters…. and by the way, Bushie has NOT been one… just observant.
In Bushie’s case perhaps Smith recognized a more ingrunt whacker when he saw one…
In your case Caswell, perhaps it was a case of birds of a feather… 🙂
…in any case, ‘Innocent’ and ‘Caswell Franklyn’ are quite possibly mutually exclusive terms…
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By the way Caswell…. Is it that the CCJ’s judgements are flawed…or that the BAJAN lawyers presenting the legal arguments on our behalf were piss poor?
When does it become the Judges’ responsibility to go and do the research that leads to the best decisions? …If this was the judge’s job then no one would really need lawyers – just present your complaint and let the court do the research and rule…
Bushie likes the CCJ….
They are human, but they seem to have STANDARDS, principles and they respect people’s damn time.
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I went looking for CCJ decisions.
It is quite amazing.
They “all” seem to be easily available online.
Can the same be said of decisions rendered in our courts?
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@Miller. Sorry. My “anointed one” is female and it is not Cornelius. I hope you don’t have anything against a female CJ. I am not saying any more on that.
@Casewell. You are right. Their decisions are mediocre. And we are suffering for it. Investors don’t want, first of all, to expose themselves to the stalled justice system in Barbados and, having got through it, subject themselves to substandard decisions from the CCJ. And why should they, when they can do the same investing in Jamaica and even Trinidad, the home of the CCJ, go figure. And we pay an exorbitant amount of money yearly to support these jokers. I speak under correction, but with the Privy Council, it only cost the litigants, not the taxpayers as well. So, time we kept the money we are paying them and at the same time made the right move to revive and reassure the global investment market.
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@Bushie. I will pass on to my lawyer friends who represent foreign investors that they should reverse their views on the CCJ, because you like the CCJ. I am sure that their investors’ money will flood in.
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why don.t you realise that barbados courts are not technologically savvy and still being run on the old steam engine method also ,,,the judges the lawyers and criminals are all in charge of the nut house
where in the international world would you read of lawyers skinning botsies at judges and not be disbarred
well that is barbados everyone is in charge/
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Ha-ha…I knew there was something I like about Amused. I bet not one of the parliamentarians thought about appointing a female Chief Justice, for balance since they never had one before and to put a different complexion on the male dominated post….while ridding the judiciary of the stigma associated with and created by those who went before.
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Is it not a fact Justices from Barbados have been unable to make the cut at the CCJ? Can anyone say why?
On 10 April 2016 at 20:38, Barbados Underground wrote:
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Maybe the justices just aren’t up to it, … male or female!!
So …. how many cases at CCJ has Vernon Smith actually won?
Is this the real problem Amused has with the CCJ??
… Vernon Smith can’t or is just not able to win there.
I note Barry Gale and Alair Shepherd both do ok at the CCJ and neither are on Amused’s favoured list!!
I was looking at the CCJ decisions to see if these guys regularly beat up on Vernon Smith at CCJ to try and explain Amused’s aversion to the two.
The corruption that has taken over in Barbados was taking over long before the advent of the CCJ and in the presence of the Privy Council.
We are stalled, nothing works, including the Courts.
Entropy reigns.
Take a look at the mess that is Turks and Caicos, a British Colony with the Privy Council!!
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Well Well
They considered appointing a lady as Chief Justice, she came home from the East Caribbean Court and was biding her time on the Court of Appeal. Then a whole lot of begging went down and she was overlooked in favour of a musician.
She was a very able Registrar and since her everything went down hill. People thought that she would have put her administrative skill to good use to bring the court around. You don’t have to like her but I am sure that she would have done a far better job than he who is clogging up the system.
Sent from my iPad
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They have never tried a female Chief Justice so they may want to give it a try and leave the political affiliation out of the process.
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Agreed Caswell.
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@Caswell
Isn’t it evident that no single person can alleviate the load on the court system? In is interesting to note that the court systems throughout the Caribbean are all under pressure.
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@ Amused April 10, 2016 at 4:29 PM #
“Miller. Sorry. My “anointed one” is female and it is not Cornelius. I hope you don’t have anything against a female CJ. I am not saying any more on that”
I was just making a ‘plug’ for an old friend since you are adamant “Gibbie”, an old friend of Fumble, must go.
I have nothing against a female CJ the same way you have ‘nothing’ against a female PM. LOL!!
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So let’s get back to the matter at hand.
There seems to be general agreement that It is a monumental waste of time.
Can we use this as a starting point?
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You only need to read Nichols Book to see that Springer, Gollop and Smith are the recurring miscreants who abuse the legal system.
This nonsense of Vernon Smith claiming he doesn’t need to pay vat has been on going for 10 years. 10 F’in YEARS.
You would think it would have been sorted out by now. To top it off , Vernon smith is suing the CJ and clogging up the courts because of this same issue.
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Leroy Parris is also suing the CJ, everybody is taking a bite.
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I was thinking about the change from the Privy Council to the CCJ in 2005 and trying to figure out if it was for the better or worse.
I concluded it was for the better.
At no time when the Barbadian Courts were going to hell can I remember the PC saying or doing anything to stop the rot.
I remember being in the Court of Appeal in 2002 and hearing a case from 1986 being called on the steps by the marshal …. no response.
Turns out one of the litigants was dead as was one of the lawyers!!
The then CJ, David Simmons had a few words to say and expressed regret but then passed over and disappeared with the panel from whence they had come.
Probably end of story.
In contrast, the CCJ repeatedly writes decisions cataloging the abuse in the Barbados Court system that took place in the cases it hears.
I have read a report on the judiciary prepared by the CCJ a few years ago.
Don’t know if the powers that be did anything but I do know that the scathing descriptions of a dysfunctional court have intensified and have seen the results in the demeanour of the judges, from the CJ back down.
They don’t like the attention they are getting and neither should we.
I would say the CCJ is superior to the Privy Council because at least it is trying to do something.
I hope it succeeds in effecting a change from the dysfunctional system to one in which we can at least have some faith.
The suggestion to return to the Privy Council is about as ludicrous as it gets.
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I realize why Amused is so inveterate against Alair Shepherd.
Mr. Shepherd was opposing counsel in the case at CCJ where Vernon Smith and his associates got cited for abuse of process.
He was also opposing counsel in the Turf Club matter with Melnyck which Vernon Smith lost.
Amused sees Alair Shepherd as a mortal enemy, one who can easily defeat Vernon Smith.
I am beginning to understand a bit about Amused’s mental state.
I wonder if Amused might be a client of Vernon Smith awaiting a hearing in any matter in which Alair Shepherd might be opposing counsel.
I reckon he/she is trembling with fear (shared sh!tless) given Mr. Smith’s record against Alair Shepherd.
I am working on why Barry Gale should incur such wrath from Amused.
I will figure it out too!!
I’ve also figured out that Madame Justice Sandra Mason cannot be Amused pick as CJ!!!
She was part of a panel in the Court of Appeal which described Vernon Smith’s logic as absurd so sorry Ms. Mason, your name is not under consideration.
…. and needless to say, opposing counsel was Alair Shepherd.
Amused’s reasoning is clouded by subjectivity and self interest!!
He yearns for the good old days!!
A good night’s sleep really clears the brain!!
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… scared not shared!!!!
Blasted keyboard!!
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John
I hate to be agree with Amused; I enjoy when we are on opposite sides, but I must agree with him that the CCJ is poor. I have not won or lost ant case before them so I am devoid of the sour grapes effect. I have found some of their judgments to be crappy.
I enjoyed reading Byron CJ when he was at the East Caribbean Court but I have noticed a diminution since he joined the EC Court.
Sent from my iPad
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What would you like to replace it with?
I have read only a few decisions particularly the ones on delay and the need for the Barbados Court to pull up its socks.
That’s probably about six or so and I have not looked at any dealing with matters in Guyana or Belize.
I have to admit the Myrie case was really of no interest to me.
I have also been involved in two matters before it, one of which I have already alluded to on BU involving Vernon Smith and Alair Shepherd so I put two and two together where Amused is concerned!!
Both of them were successful so like you, I have no sour grapes, but for a different reason!!!
… but of course, I admit, there is the element of subjectivity!!
I did not read the Wynton Campbell decision in detail but I did not like it, again as I have said, I know the guy (also an electrical engineer) and a bit of what went on.
I went on gut with that decision.
For me the positive was that the GOB had to go to Parliament to change the law specifically to deal with Wynton so there is the tacit admission that he gave a good account of himself and the GOB met its match!!
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@John. I have not appeared with Mr Smith in any cases before the CCJ. You must be mistaking me for someone else. I have no doubt that the information you have supplied here might well result in someone somewhere being able to identify you and, indeed, perversely, you seem pathetically eager to be identified. But you can leave me right out of that game. I have no interest whatever in who you might be and in any case I intend to observe the ruling principles of BU which, among others, is the right and protection of anonymity. I commend this rule to you.
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To my way of thinking a court does not dispense justice, it simply gives a decision.
I am an engineer, interested only in solving problems.
A decision can be appealed but in the absence of a decision the court is used as a tool to prevent progress and not as a means to solve a problem!!
That is an abuse and calls the court into disrepute.
I am involved in cases brought in 2002, 2003,2006 and 2010 in the Barbados courts in which either decisions are outstanding or they are yet to be heard.
Three constitutional motions followed, the last of which begun in 2012 was adjourned in 2014 and is yet to get a date.
In that one an application for an inquiry as to damages against the AG for the denial of a speedy trial which is constitutionally due a citizen was made.
You can understand my leaning to any final court of appeal that actually seeks to call the Barbados Courts to order as the CCJ does!!
I am not versed in law to the extent that I can appreciate the niceties of the language or logic associated with a written decision but I can certainly appreciate the complete absence of a decision and that is my starting point.
I don’t think there is any complaint against the CCJ for not delivering judgments!!
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Man John, you are 100% on point in this matter.
The only problem with the CCJ has been the usual political idiocy that we have grown to expect with regional matters.
Even the fact that they have not lowered their standards to include Barbadian jurists so far (although Barbados was at the forefront of its creation) sends the message that they are quality conscious.
The fact that some people do not like a court’s decisions is petty..and completely irrelevant to the matter. Inevitably 50% of those involved tend to dislike a court’s decision …except of course in Barbados …where there are mostly no damn decisions…
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Check the man behind the following text, read this text and compare it to the reality-neglecting-approach of the establishment in Bim:
Click to access Bridgewater-Associates-Ray-Dalio-Principles.pdf
Bim is sinking deeper and deeper due to a very wrong culture. When a house burns in Bimshire, the establishment including their consultants talk about some “temporary mild heat and a little smoke”. Meanwhile, the house is destroyed.
We need a leader like the man above, no sweet-an-likin figures twisting the facts.
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So, now, how is Barry Gale linked to Vernon Smith?
Philip Nicholls identifies the two as …. well I can’t use the words in “decent” company so the two at least have Philip Nicholls in common!!
I have come across correspondence between Allan Watson who has an arrest warrant on his head and had absconded to the US with Barry Gale regarding a bogus company so another link into Cottle Catford but that was a long time ago.
But Amused is all bent out of shape over Barry Gale now so it is something he did Vernon Smith that needs to be found.
It may not be as simple as figuring out Amused’s displeasure with Alair Shepherd but then again it may be.
Perhaps Barry Gale’s attempts at bringing down Philip Nicholls back fired and meant Vernon Smith had to resort to tactics to keep Watson out of Philip Nicholl’s clutches and expose himself and the whole racket.
Anyway, I’m on it!!
One thing is sure, this makes one hell of a detective story!!
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@ Tron
Interesting read (scan)
He said…for example..
(Nature’s) perfection and brilliance staggers me. When I think about all the flying machines, swimming machines, and
billions of other systems that nature created, from the microscopic level to the cosmic level, and how they
interact with one another to make a workable whole that evolves through time and through multi-dimensions,
my breath is taken away. It seems to me that, in relation to nature, man has the intelligence of a mold growing on
an apple—man can’t even make a mosquito, let alone scratch the surface of understanding the universe.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
…and then went on to extrapolate the lessons of nature to fine tune his business of making money… while missing the GLARING message that stared him directly in the face…
This serves to demonstrate the POWER of ‘albino-centric thinking’ to distract us into the generally accepted belief that accumulating material things represents a measure of ‘success’ in life…
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http://www.barbadostoday.bb/2015/04/28/lawyers-who-owe-should-be-banned/
I think I may have it.
“The senior lawyer said he would also be pressing ahead with the suit against the chief justice, whom he is accusing of breaching his constitutional rights by effectively “disbarring” him without due process, based on the word of former Bar president Barry Gale, QC, who told the chief justice on April 14, that Smith had not paid his annual fee.”
It is Barry Gale who skinned out Vernon Smith before the Chief Justice!!!!
So Amused is the cheerleader for Vernon Smith spouting invective at any and every body who dares to harm his buddy.
I suspect anything written by Amused on here will have been written with that angle.
It sure fits with the assessment that he/she is scared sh!tless at the prospect of his/her lawyer, Vernon Smith going up against Alair Shepherd in some case in which Vernon Smith is his/her attorney on record.
I am getting there!!!!!!!!
Sometimes you have to go in little steps!!
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Let me repeat a question that was asked yesterday, but let me direct to Mr. Bush Tea
Have you experience a Damascene conversion? it seems to me as if your whacker has become blunted, lost it roar and making some ‘religious’ noises.
Has the words of Zoe found fertile ground in that mind of yours. Put aside that electric whacker and rev up the old gasoline whacker…..
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I just googled and found the the vat ranged from BDS $43.00 to $175.00.
Is that what this fuss is all about;? You have to be kidding me…
The cost of dinner for two at a restaurant. I must be missing something.
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I still can’t figure out why experienced lawyers/CJ/AG/Parliamentarians who legislate laws, cannot get this matter re payment/nonpayment of vat on attorneys fees….resolved.
John…..not sure, but I think Madame Justice Mason retired, so it would not be her. There are not that many female justices so it’s easy to do the process of elimination.
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Is this why the courts are clogged. Large egos battling over trivial sums, so as to make a legal point.
Judges need to carry a bullwhip under their robes. Use it once or twice and this nonsense done…..
Sorry, but I don’t get it. Educate me.
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The Gazer…it’s the most idiotic and meaningless use, misuse and abuse of the court’s time and waste of taxpayer’s money I have ever come across…if I had my way, they would all be in a prison….in Mexico or South America, no easy prison time for them.
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The VAT is ridiculously small and the court is wasting its time trying to split copper wire!!
Amused is trying to say he/she does not agree it is an abuse of process.
These clowns should be thrown out of Court and perhaps into jail to let them have a little time to ponder on the crap they are doing.
Imagine there are 10’s of thousands of Bajans who suffered at the hands of Clico and can’t get a resolution to their problem since 2008 or whenever because the court won’t give it to them.
It is as my grandfather used to say, scandalous, ridicalus.
I hope they end up suing the Government for damages for denying them their constitutional right to a speedy trial!!
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@ TheGazer
To Mr. Bush Tea…
Have you experience a Damascene conversion? it seems to me as if your whacker has become blunted, lost it roar and making some ‘religious’ noises.”
Has the words of Zoe found fertile ground in that mind of yours. Put aside that electric whacker and rev up the old gasoline whacker…..
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You will hardly hear bushie’s whacker making ‘religious’ noises….. But it DOES sing the praises of BBE continually. You may occasionally confuse the two tunes…
EVERYTHING about this experience we call ‘life-on-earth’ carries the BBE- beat ….it is the whole raison d’êtres of life…
Bushie’s ‘Damascene’ moment came MANY YEARS ago…and since then, NOTHING has been the same… all those other shiite topics that you hear Bushie on are just part of the side dishes of life…. The MAIN COURSE is the real gospel…
By the way – it is a four stroke gasoline model with ‘ripping’ power and a vicious bark… Electric shiite!!?? …wid a whole lotta wires bout behind yuh?
LOL
ha ha ha
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Who is the judge hearing this matter?
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Amused April 11, 2016 at 9:56 AM #
@John. I have not appeared with Mr Smith in any cases before the CCJ.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I know …. don’t think I said you did, show me where!!
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@John
Relax, you have been posting long enough on BU to know we will support the anonymity some seek on BU, even you.
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How many cases has Mr. Smith been involved in before the CCJ?
I know of 3, all of which he lost and one of which he was cited for abuse of process!!
Not a very good record!
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Back in the day theologians used to waste time arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin (N. B. That argument has not yet been resolved) instead of using their time to feed the hungry, heal the sick etc. but then came the Reformation…sorry I mean the revolution.
Maybe we need another revolution…sorry I mean Reformation, this time of the legal system.
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I see the court demonstrated uncommon wisdom yesterday!!
http://www.barbadostoday.bb/2016/04/12/case-against-cj-delayed-again/
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Oh, oh…I see SSS is asking about an investigation into the death of Marcelle Smith and Wade Gibbons chimes in……and Jeff….soooo, who is Jeff?
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BTW……let’s hope the adjournment continues for another 10 years, that is called, dose of own medicine..lol
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