โ† Back

Your message to the BLOGMASTER was sent

Submitted by William Skinner
Pauline Benjamin - Principal, Springer Memorial Secondary School
Pauline Benjamin – Principal, Springer Memorial Secondary School

The public debate, in Barbados, surrounding the refusal of a student to pick up paper, on the instruction of a teacher, is instructive of the changing norms the society is having in several areas. The days of the teacher being always right are no longer with us. We must come to terms with the simple fact that children do have rights and these rights include asking why they are being punished or being asked to do any particular task. We should be careful not to come down too hard on the teacher but bear in mind that in this case the child probably saw the request as punishment for something that she was not a party to. It is a fine line, in this case, between request and punishment.

Of course there are those who will present many cases of teachers punishing children back in the โ€œgood old daysโ€. They are suffering from severe nostalgia, hoping in vain for a Barbados that no longer exists. Hence, well intentioned citizens , such as Mr. Carl Moore, does not stand a chance of convincing others, such as retired principal Mr. Matthew Farley, that corporal punishment, sends a message to impressionable young minds that violence is the only antidote to conflict.

In this case, the teacher probably over reached by actually denying the child the rights to class room instruction by making her just wait outside the counsellor’s door, if press reports are accurate. This matter should have been more delicately handled once the child had refused to execute the order. Since the child had not created the infraction by littering the premises, she responded as many young adults do these days; defending what they now understand as their rights. Rights to which the Barbados government is a signatory. We must learn to accept that modern children will be โ€œseen and heardโ€ and are not like those from the good old days, who were sometimes brutalized for acts they did not commit. It was so bad that they were afraid to even discuss the beatings with their parents for fear of being beaten again. In todayโ€™s world such acts are known as violence against children and in more developed societies, will land the teacher and parent in prison!

I can recall quite vividly being beaten with the โ€œwhole classโ€ for acts I did not commit. Like Carl Moore, I am convinced that beating children and using corporal punishment is barbaric. This nonsense about โ€œPeter paying for Paul and Paul paying for allโ€ has no place in a democratic society.

I am therefore in sympathy with both the child and the teacher. Teachers are usually unfairly castigated for all that is wrong with society and young people are also being unfairly blame for the falling values. Both groups must therefore work harder to resolve conflict. In this case, the child did nothing wrong by refusing to accept what she perhaps interpreted as an unjust punishment. It could have been the result of the approach used or circumstances of which the public is totally unaware.


Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

186 responses to “Student Punished by Springer School Principal for not Picking up a Wrapper”


  1. Oops please ignore “resort conflict ” in post it really should be “resolve conflict”. My apologies. Thanks.


  2. Very well said…..I agree totally


  3. People who do not understand the dynamics of GROUP DISCIPLINE should refrain from getting themselves involved in debating this complex subject.
    Raising one or two children in a home is not the same as managing the discipline of 30 (or 800) in a class room (school) every day for five days a week.
    The best approach for the uninitiated is to judge the tree by its fruit….

    How is Springer doing….?
    How about those that are more ‘modern’ in their discipline…?


  4. @Bush Tea,
    While the dynamic is different in each group, there is one over riding principle-the discipline/punishment must be fairly administered. So if you are a parent with two children, an army general with a 20,000 or a teacher with 30, the need for transparency and just treatment to all must be established. In this case, I really believe that the child perhaps believed that she did not litter the premises so in her mind the punishment was unfair and the request to pick up another person’s litter, did not sit well with her.


  5. I can’t believe that not picking up a piece of paper can lead a principal to expel a young lady from class for this length of time. Why didn’t the teacher pick the wrapper up herself to show the students in the classroom it wasn’t beneath her to pick up the piece of paper? Just because I have authority doesn’t mean that I have to use my authority over someone because I can. We have examples of to politicians with post in the government that broke the law and they are still holding their position in cabinet. You have a man who was the chairman of a company who almost brought Barbados to its knees and is driving around Barbados in a range rover and even have the nerve to sue for money, when he should be in jail and every asset belonging to him and his family confiscated and nothing has happened to him. This gentleman is even hanging out with the two highest officials in government and a young lady is being crucified for not picking up a piece of paper. We are not back in the old days when we had to do whatever we were ordered to do and not even bat your eyes. There are a lot of comments about the young lady and her mother, I wonder if those people making the harsh comments have children and if the shoe was on the other foot they would be making the same comments. If the child had drop the wrapper then the teacher would have been in her right to order the child to pick the paper up and then if she didn’t should have been published. But the punishment should not be out of classes for stupidness.


  6. And what was the childs reponse when asked to pick up the litter?


  7. Fair enough William… if we are going to assume unfair administration …then no system will pass the test….
    However you must note your qualification…
    “…you really believe that the student perhaps believed…”
    Have you EVER met a disciplined child that believed the punishment to be fair and reasonable…?

    …and as to what ‘seems fair to a school child’ and the ‘rights’ of a school child… Bushie was under the (obviously mistaken) impression that the WHOLE POINT of being in school. …and being under the guidance of PROFESSIONALS called ‘teachers’, was for these children to LEARN the rules of engagement of living successfully in our society.

    No problem with them questioning, debating, even objecting to ideas and norms, (all part of learning) but can you even IMAGINE the chaos if a whole school of immature children are empowered to outright disobey direct instructions from authorities who are the very PROFESSIONALS hired precisely to teach them…?

    Sometimes we don’t even know what we are asking for…..
    Even though we need only look at our role models in the first world to see the results.


  8. Life is a VERY complex phenomenon.
    There is an approach that SEEMS to be right at first glance, but on careful reflection, the end results is chaos and damnation….. (not an original thought from Bushie ๐Ÿ™‚ )

    LEADERSHIP often requires taking decisions that are ‘unfair’ to individuals within the group, but which, in the overall scheme of things, is absolutely correct for group success

    Picture a wise and dedicated teacher, fully in tune with the various characters within the class, taking a deliberate decision to focus on collective responsibility for cleanliness – perhaps while teaching about the challenges of dengue or zika….. So the teacher drops a wrapper on the floor before class, watches to see if anyone notices and responds, and after no such response, calls on student X to pick up the litter (perhaps based on student X’s characteristic of being contrary …. or of questioning instructions) …and hoping to lead to good class discussions on how community cleanliness could and should be addressed….

    …Then some TV-trained ‘mother’ agrees that she did not send her daughter to school to pick up garbage….

    Message being sent to the teacher…
    F*%$ dat!!

    (Frig …. teachers don’t cuss like bushmen..)


  9. @ Bush Tea,
    “Have you EVER met a disciplined child that believed the punishment to be fair and reasonableโ€ฆ?” I assure you that i have interacted with several disciplined children who were able to accept quite willingly what was fair and reasonable punishment, when it was carried out against them. One thing that children can quickly detect is whether they are being unfaired.
    @ Erskine Miller,
    You are absolutely correct. Sometime ago, an attorney at law a QC, skinned his backside at a female judge/magistrate and he is still at the bar. We have had an MP pull a gun on another MP. But we want to crucify a child for essentially saying she would not accept punishment for something she did not do.
    All children have rights and it is difficult to blame the child when there is no evidence that the child was responsible for the littering.


  10. Why has it taken so long for the MOE to get involved? This issue is also an indictment on authority. What about the PTA? What about the trade union?

  11. Retribution-things that make me go hum! Avatar
    Retribution-things that make me go hum!

    I wish this much interest be given to child abuse in the schools.


  12. Bushie,

    Don’t bandy about that word “PROFESSIONALS” willy nilly. Many of today’s teachers do not merit that description. Maybe I would have been guilty of asking the nearest child to pick up the garbage but I would have been knowledgeable enough not to try to enforce it. I would have picked it up myself. Teachers need to be educated on children’s rights so that they will know their boundaries. This teacher, in my opinion, acted outside of her boundaries. No teacher has the RIGHT to instruct anyone to pick up somebody else’s garbage. The teacher should be engaged in teaching everyone to pick up their own and to encourage those with greater understanding to VOLUNTARILY pick up the slack of the delinquent.

    Obviously there would be some situations where it is advisable for children to question their teachers’ instructions (e.g. step into my parlour said the spider to the fly situations etc)and generally I think children know when their rights are being ignored. Children should be taught respectful responses when this occurs. This option should be available to them without repercussions. The disrespectful should be punished for an inappropriate response. The ones who mean to be troublesome will do it anyway.

    Remember, we do not wish to raise another generation of sheeple like the ones currently being staked out in the pasture for years without a drop of water to drink. We must teach our chidren to know their rights and stand up for them in an appropriate manner whilst also recognizing their responsibilities.


  13. That Peter pay for Paul situation was recently overturned by my son’s principal and year head. So far, the children, having been given the right to appeal unfair instruction or punishment have not abused the privilege. This is, in my opinion, because they respect the principal and know they wouldn’t get past him with nonsense anyway. If principal and teachers are RESPECTABLE they will be respected by the majority of students. The delinquents will remain the way their homes made them. There will be no more chaos than before.


  14. Touchรฉ William….
    Many children who are allowed their own way …and occasionally reprimanded with “a stern word” would indeed accept it as ‘fair and reasonable’…

    Unfortunately, REAL life is not quite as forgiving….so when these same children grow up and take those same ‘challenges’ to the authorities you probably would expect that the police etc will just apply some stern words of admonition too … don’t you?
    They are shot down in the streets…. dehumanised in the prisons….

    When they grow up to disregard ‘picking up garbage’, perhaps you would think that mother nature would gently remind them with a stern reminder – rather than a vicious outbreak of deadly diseases like dengue and zika….

    Life is hard…. in order to succeed at it, EDUCATION must be practical….
    Wunna don’t even recognise value when the ACTUAL RESULTS shout it at wunna….


  15. @ Donna
    Life does not revolve around your son and his school.
    You are not a typical Bajan any damn how….. so what is your point…?

    Teachers have to deal with ALL kinds of characters …all damn day long. They are challenged and questioned by brass bowl parents who could not raise two sheep successfully – far less tell a teacher what the hell he /she should be doing… they have to contend with the stupid-ass Ministry of eedykashun and depend on the retarded teacher’s unions to represent their interests…

    You think um easy…?

    JUDGE THE TREE BY THE DAMN FRUIT.

    Rather than picking on the methods of one of the schools that have become a SHINING LIGHT in recent years, we should demand FULL disclosure of all results from ALL schools ….and seek to find out what the problems are with the WEAK PERFORMERS…
    …and who and where the REAL unprofessional teachers are….


  16. Bushie,

    I challenged my mother. “Parents provoke not thy children to wrath!” was my reply to her “Honor thy father and thy mother!” I was vindicated by my father’s response. I have challenged teachers and been vindicated by the principal’s response. I have challenged bosses who wished me to circumvent rules and been vindicated. I pick up garbage voluntarily and never had so much as a parking ticket etc.

    The trick is to teach responsibility along with rights. Also to teach the appropriate time, place and manner of your challenge. Also one must teach that challenges often have consequences and that one must decide if the challenge is worth it.

    Martin Luther King challenged the policemen? So did Nelson Mandela? They were both vindicated. One was killed and the other worse. That is REAL LIFE!

    But challenge we sometimes must!


  17. My style Bushie, is to use my personal experience to inform situations. How does that translate to “the world revolving around my son’s school?” Fact – his school principal also has these same children to deal with in the same numbers and is managing well. Of course it is not easy for the teachers. Especially when many of them make it harder on themselves. I am not your average Bajan you have said, and I find some of them to be appalling. Often I wonder about their powers of reasoning.

    The principal in question has done well. She has now made an error. She had time to correct it. This should have been resolved before it got to the press. Her fault! May this soon pass, may she learn her lesson and may they all move on in a satisfactory manner!


  18. That should read martin Luther King Jr. challenged the policemen. So did Nelson Mandela.

  19. Augustus Octavius Avatar
    Augustus Octavius

    Let’s us continue to re-in force the ignorant
    Bajan mentality of ‘cho-it away’. Have any of
    you witnessed partners responding their
    childs question of what to do with a wrapper
    or a bag or cup? The response from these
    ignorant parents is ‘Cho-it away’ which is rashole
    code for pelt it on the rashole ground. IDIOTS.


  20. How convenient it is to use emotive language in order to strengthen a weak point. Notice how easy it has been for some to move the discussion from “paper wrapper” to “garbage”? It must be very easy for us to play what the Americans call “Monday morning quarterback” in coming to the conclusion that the Year Head and Head Teacher are wrong and the 14 year old student is right in this whole episode.
    Just think about it (1) 30 kids in a class. (2) Teacher issues a direct instruction to one pupil (3) Pupil refuses to comply. (4) Teacher accepts that refusal and as some suggest, carries out the instruction personally. (5) Following day, teacher issues another instruction….need I go on? Anarchy, that’s what we are summonsing.

    We complain daily about the levels of indiscipline in our society exhibited by squatters, ZR culture, airport workers, litter bugs, customer service personnel etc. and yet are unable to make the link between our acceptance of what should never really have been an item for national debate and real problems in Barbados.

    When will we for instance, be able to stand together and unite in our condemnation of government incompetence be it B or D? Probably never as we are blinded by the political tint of our glasses, meanwhile allowing graft and favoritism to flourish. How childish are we to continue accepting wrongdoing because “they did it too” while a country is destroyed right before our very eyes?

    I am the parent of a 12 year old and let me tell you that what happened at Springer could never happen with my daughter. Do you know why? Because while she has been raised to question what may seem to her to be illogical instructions, she has also been raised to respect responsible authority. I suffer fools gladly as others may not be the sharpest tools in the shed but I have zero tolerance for rudeness and disrespect as they are both learned behaviors.


  21. I am also the parent of a twelve year old who would have picked up the wrapper. What I am questioning is the RIGHT of a teacher to instruct a child to pick up somebody else’s garbage. Teachers have to know their boundaries. They DO HAVE BOUNDARIES. Everybody does. You are saying that questioning authority leads to anarchy? I suspect that you yourself are a tool that needs sharpening. Authority unquestioned leads to ………abuse. There must be a balance. There must be a balance in all things.


  22. @Donna,

    Does your son wear gloves or use hand sanitizer ?

    What if the “wrapper” had someone else bodily fluid on it ?


  23. Hants,

    If it was a sweet wrapper which looked as though it had just been dropped in the classroom he would have picked it up. He wouldn’t have touched old dirty looking garbage in the outdoors or tissue of any kind without a glove. He always carries sanitizer. He knows what to do. He also knows how to refuse an unreasonable request from a teacher without being rude.


  24. See what I mean about the reintroduction of the word “garbage”? Anyway Donne, you are correct, I am probably the dullest tool in the shed and that is why I have great tolerance for the other dullards. Still, if I can put so much passion into standing up for my “rights” when asked to execute a simple task, can you imagine when I really have something to protest? Come on, let’s get real. As someone else said, the colonial masters have been replaced by local masters who inflict tax after tax and what do we do? Grumble while the whip is replaced by the tax whip. A wrapper? Really.


  25. The job of teacher cannot be condensed to an instruction to a child about picking up a wrapper. If we continue down this path we will end up like the USA.


  26. Why is this child being given a “pass”by adults who should know better. How is it the child can say to the teacher in a rude and disrespectful manner “That her mother did not send her to school to pick up garbage” and her language is somewhat dismiss or ignore as disrespect
    That kind of attitude is already rampant in society which makes room for disorganization in the work force
    What happen to team work


  27. David,

    This is no longer about the wrapper. This about boundaries for teachers and principals. Long overdue discussions about boundaries for teachers. Some of these teachers know nothing about boundaries. Unless it is their own child that is affected.


  28. Agree that indiscipline and immoral behaviour is rampant. Immoral behaviour from leaders who should know better, like CARRINGTON.


  29. If the student answered rudely then she should have been punished for her rudeness. Not for refusing to follow an unfair instruction. Obviously the further instruction to pick up garbage was not a punishment for rudeness but an attempt to force her to comply with the first unreasonable request.


  30. @Donna

    Let us for the sake of argument accept your position, it is not about a wrapper…

    Why have the authorities allowed this matter to drag out for over a month? Why is the ministry just ‘negotiating’ with the parent to a transferl”

    BTW how does the mother entertain the expectation the girl should be transferred to St.Michaels or (was it Combermere?).


  31. Read “Wild Coot” in today’s NationNews online.


  32. There were a lot of failures along the way. That piece of paper should have been picked up by the first person who saw it. The first student or the first teacher.

    If both the teachers and students are cool with working in a littered room, and if all of them are waiting for somebody else to pick up litter there has been a massive failure to socialize all of them, all of the students in the class, the teacher, and the parent of the child who objected so strenuously.

    No child pass the age of 10 or so should need to be reminded to pick up litter.

    And we are talking about germs?

    What germs?

    Has anybody ever caught HIV from picking up a piece of soiled tissue? If that has ever happened then I have not heard of it.

    Hundreds of thousands of people have caught HIV from having another person put their bodily fluids in their private parts, and yet nobody has given up sex. Not a single soul.

    Don’t we all catch the cold or flu from time to time whether or not we pick up litter?

    Don’t we all want to be doctors or spouses of doctors, and who besides doctors (and nurses) have to deal with nastiness everyday, and yet I don’t see anybody refusing a doctor’s offer of marriage.

    I think that we are demonizing the wrong things. I would bet my life that within 2 years that girl will be engaging in unprotected sex. I bet that within the last 30 years her very defensive mother has engaged in unprotected sex (otherwise how come she has a 14 year old?)

    There is dengue out there, and chickV, and zika and I would bet any amount of money that the family has expensive cell phones, but no insect screens on their doors and windows, and no mosquito nets, and I bet the girl’s mother had not provided her with mosquito repellent to take to school

    And yet nobody has ever died from picking up a sweetie paper, or even a soiled piece of tissue, or a used condom and every year hundreds or thousand of people get sick and some die from dengue and chickV.

    Why is it that we are so afraid of harmless things?

    And yet have no fear at all of truly harmful things such as mosquitoes, and penises and vaginas?


  33. @David February 1, 2016 at 2:16 PM “BTW how does the mother entertain the expectation the girl should be transferred to St.Michaels or (was it Combermere?).”

    Word on the street is that an offer was made to transfer the child to St. Lucy’s Secondary School, but you know how we Bajans are about “good schools” and “bad schools”

    For her impertinence the girl should be given a social promotion to a “good school” some people think.

    Lolll!!!


  34. In which case I will demand that my little Johnnie beat a teacher of something equally bad, so that he can get a transfer to Harsun.


  35. So people of this blog tell me what you would do if one morning you got up and a dead dog, or cat, or rat or monkey was just outside of your driveway.

    It is not your dog, or cat, or rat or monkey.

    Your car did not run over the dog or cat or rat or monkey.

    You did not put the dog or cat, or rat or monkey there.

    Tell me the truth now.

    What would you do?

    Or what have you done when an animal has been killed or died just outside of your home?


  36. Question

    Many years ago I was watching an after school rehearsal for a production soon to be staged by the school. Unwittingly, I had placed my school bag on the benches used by the cast a before I migrated to a different seat. It was time for me to leave to catch the only bus I could catch to my rural parish without the threat of unmerciful pushing and squeezing. It was also the last bus I could catch without breaking my mother’s curfew. (Also any later bus would have arrived after dark and caused my parents great concern.) I approached the bench to retrieve my school bag.

    “MOVE FROM AMONG THE CAST!” yelled the teacher responsible for the production.

    I tried to explain my plight but was brushed aside with the same bellowing. After several attempts to explain and gain permission I decided that my mother was the greater authority and moved to retrieve my bag. My arm was grabbed by the teacher who didn’t expect the slap I gave her to gain my freedom. I barely caught my bus after running all the way to the bus stand.

    What should I have done?

    To the teacher’s chagrin, Elsie Payne saw it my way? She did not tell me so but the fact that I wasn’t punished was enough for me. That’s why we respected her. She was firm but fair. I have found that teachers who are respectable are respected by the majority of students.

    What would you have done?


  37. @Fearplay

    You and Wild Coot will be viewed as two sentimental fools.


  38. @David February 1, 2016 at 2:10 PM “leaders who should know better, like CARRINGTON.”

    He is a leader???

    Stupseee!!!!!!!!!


  39. @Simple Simon

    A reminder he is the leader of what is often described as the highest court in the land. Your response exposes the concern many Barbadians have with the material we have to work with offered by the political class.


  40. Simple Simon,

    You are missing the point. Unlike most people, I have been on clean up campaigns, taken youth groups on the same and regularly conduct neighborhood cleanups SOLO as well as impromptu SOLO clean-ups of parks and beaches when I visit them. But I have NEVER been ordered to do so. I do so because I hate garbage and have more than half a brain. However, suppose Freundel pulled a Fidel Castro and ordered me to pick up the same garbage I would tell him where to get off. It’s all about RIGHTS. He doesn’t have that RIGHT.


  41. Seem to have a problem with question marks today. That should be “Elsie Payne saw it my way.”


  42. Donna what would you have done if you had donated blood for your own mother, and one morning you get a call from the blood bank asking you to donate for somebody else’s mother? And you don’t know that other mother.

    Would you say to the official of the blood bank “It ain’t my mother” and hang up the phone?

    And what if I was the donor and the intended recipient was your new born son?

    Should I have said “My children dun raise already. That ain’t my son”

    And what if you were asked to donate a kidney to a person you was not a friend or relative, or colleague, or neighbour or church member of yours?

    What would you do?


  43. @Donna February 1, 2016 at 3:19 PM “Simple Simon, You are missing the point… But I have NEVER been ordered to do so.”

    We are assuming that the teacher ORDERED the child. Yet have NO EVIDENCE that the teacher, or the principal ORDERED the child to d o anything.

    What if both the teacher and the principal made a police request and the girl (by her own mother’s admission) made a rude response?


  44. We do know don’t we that in other places (Canada for one) there are people who volunteer to give a kidney to a complete stranger and who receive no financial reward for doing so?

    My question is “how far along the road to generosity of spirit is this child and her mother? If any of us needed a kidney, is this child or her mother GENEROUS enough to give a kidney? Or even a single unit of blood?

    And how do we as parents and teachers, and pastors, and political leaders cultivate that generosity of spirit.

    And is generosity still a virtue?

    Should generosity be abandoned?

    Should generosity be encouraged?


  45. I’ve know a man who desperately needed a kidney.

    All of his 8 siblings exercised their RIGHT to say no.

    He died.

    How do we cultivate generrosity? And is generosity even worth cultivating?


  46. NOT police request

    But polite request.


  47. David,

    The authorities are doing their usual thing. They are not in the business of solving problems. The haven’t a clue what to do. Is it true that the principal is defying their instructions? Wouldn’t that fall somewhere along the same line as why we are here in the first place- defiance of instructions from authority? Wouldn’t that be a gag?

    Why would the parent be expecting a “promotion” for the girl? Maybe she thinks she has a case for the law courts and is using what she perceives as leverage. Hope the girl can keep up with the pace if she gets her wish.


  48. Simple Simon,

    As we know, it is not always what you say but how you say it. She should be punished for her rudeness if that was the case but not with picking up the garbage of the nasty folk. Whatever is the usual punishment for rudeness should be given.


  49. Simple Simon,

    We encourage generosity by ENCOURAGING generosity. Generosity cannot be ordered.


  50. @Simple Simon

    Agree with you, we don’t know.

The blogmaster invites you to join and add value to the discussion.

Trending

Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading