Student Punished by Springer School Principal for not Picking up a Wrapper
Submitted by William Skinner
Pauline Benjamin – Principal, Springer Memorial Secondary School
The public debate, in Barbados, surrounding the refusal of a student to pick up paper, on the instruction of a teacher, is instructive of the changing norms the society is having in several areas. The days of the teacher being always right are no longer with us. We must come to terms with the simple fact that children do have rights and these rights include asking why they are being punished or being asked to do any particular task. We should be careful not to come down too hard on the teacher but bear in mind that in this case the child probably saw the request as punishment for something that she was not a party to. It is a fine line, in this case, between request and punishment.
Of course there are those who will present many cases of teachers punishing children back in the “good old days”. They are suffering from severe nostalgia, hoping in vain for a Barbados that no longer exists. Hence, well intentioned citizens , such as Mr. Carl Moore, does not stand a chance of convincing others, such as retired principal Mr. Matthew Farley, that corporal punishment, sends a message to impressionable young minds that violence is the only antidote to conflict.
In this case, the teacher probably over reached by actually denying the child the rights to class room instruction by making her just wait outside the counsellor’s door, if press reports are accurate. This matter should have been more delicately handled once the child had refused to execute the order. Since the child had not created the infraction by littering the premises, she responded as many young adults do these days; defending what they now understand as their rights. Rights to which the Barbados government is a signatory. We must learn to accept that modern children will be “seen and heard” and are not like those from the good old days, who were sometimes brutalized for acts they did not commit. It was so bad that they were afraid to even discuss the beatings with their parents for fear of being beaten again. In today’s world such acts are known as violence against children and in more developed societies, will land the teacher and parent in prison!
I can recall quite vividly being beaten with the “whole class” for acts I did not commit. Like Carl Moore, I am convinced that beating children and using corporal punishment is barbaric. This nonsense about “Peter paying for Paul and Paul paying for all” has no place in a democratic society.
I am therefore in sympathy with both the child and the teacher. Teachers are usually unfairly castigated for all that is wrong with society and young people are also being unfairly blame for the falling values. Both groups must therefore work harder to resolve conflict. In this case, the child did nothing wrong by refusing to accept what she perhaps interpreted as an unjust punishment. It could have been the result of the approach used or circumstances of which the public is totally unaware.
Barbados Underground 
Gosh, that question mark problem hasn’t gone away. Should be – what you are getting at.
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@ Donna
Hahahahahaha…. Come on Donna, I’m just having a little fun with Walter.
Walter mentioned about “an island with commendable social norms, mores, and values,” and also wrote: “we are witnessing the collapse of our social structure as a result of graft, corruption, lax and discriminatory enforcement of our laws……..”
All I’m trying to tell Walter is that the government appointed Apostle Dr. David Durant as a senator.
Therefore, by his calls for “national days of prayers” and other similar actions, Durant seems to be charged with promoting and keeping intact those “commendable social norms, mores, and values” on behalf of the government. This should satisfy Walter.
However, while accepting the above, we should forget that he sits in the Senate to defend and vote in favour of “lax and discriminatory enforcement of our laws,” while remaining silent on “witnessing the collapse of our social structure as a result of graft, corruption (e.g. CAHILL, CLICO).
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Arta,
Oh.
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Artaxerxes February 2, 2016 at 7:13 PM
“Mr. Blackman, as I mentioned in a previous post, you are an academic I admire. But sometimes I get the impression because of your high level of education, you seem to think it’s okay for you to visit BU periodically to write half truths and we should accept it. I know you can do better than that.
Sir, your comments do not have any value because you refused (deliberately so?) to acknowledge the government has within its bosom the services of Senator Apostle Prophet Dr. David Durant……”
Artaxerxes,
Boy, you ain’t easy! I would have thought that writing half truths would get me 50%, but you have given me 0% (my “comments do not have any value”) . Wow!
To think about getting full marks in your books, you want to tell me that I would have to know that Jesus said “Render under Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s?
And that the apostle Matthew warned hard-ears Dr. Durant that he cannot serve God and Mammon too?
And although God Almighty had decided to punish David Thompson, an ungodly deceitful modern day Caesar, Dr. Durant stepped in front of God and assured the nation of Barbados that David Thompson cannot die under his watch?
And for a short while, all Barbadians wondered aloud: “Could Dr. Durant be more powerful than God?”
And that by his actions and words, Dr. Durant was proven before the whole world to be a blasphemous false prophet, and a religious charlatan, after the Lord swept him aside and inflicted divine retribution on David Thompson?
And that, rather than copying the tactics of Sir Eric Gairy, who “ran out of town in an obeah gown”, Dr. Durant ran into the Senate where he became well positioned to hear evil, see evil, but speak of no evil?
Artaxerxes, I am not bright enough to think, know, and write about such things. At first, I thought you were “marking me hard” but, come to think of it, I truly deserve the “nought” you gave me.
I promise to do better the next time I visit BU to write half truths.
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@ Walter
It’s you that ain’t easy…. I ain’t want nutten wid you, yuh. Hahahahahahaha
While I hid behind the “sanctuary” of trying to be “politically correct,” you were brave/bold enough to write exactly what I meant.
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During my apprenticeship,many many years ago,I like this school girl refused to carry out a cleaning job when asked to do so by a senior staff member. I was taken to the General Manager, who I lectured on the dirtiness of his senior operators who leave their work stations filthy, and expect juniors to clean up after them. I was suspended for a short time .
Shortly after retuning from my suspension,I was called to the GM’s office who informed me that he had just got word from Government that a new facility would be built, and he was looking for men , like me, who would be able to appreciate a new facility without messing it up,and furthermore would I be will to go overseas for some specialist training.
Sometimes it pays to rock the boat. Nothing ever changes when you go along like sheep taking anything that is thrown at you. We Barbadians,at times need to hang up our sheep’s clothing and don our wolf’s.
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Colonel Buggy,
Let them continue trying to beat the young people into submission. I know the young people. It will only get worse. They hate hypocrisy and unfairness most of all. They look at the adults’ lives and wonder what gives them the right to get on any high horse. Let them burst the young people tails now and when the time comes the young people will burst them tails.
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@ Donna,
Many of us adults have forgotten one simple truth: “Children live what they see” For example: A student hearing that this blog is discussing this issue will pull it up and read the nasty and vile language some of us use to get across our point. While we are doing that , we expect to set the tone for the elevation of standards in the society. This blog is perhaps the most progressive organ we have in the country today. And some of us cannot even respect the blogmaster by being more respectful with our language. And we are all over a child for refusing to pick up paper. Funny is it not? I have total confidence in our country’s youth. Our generation has learnt the art of hypocrisy as passed down from our colonial masters very well.
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What is so amusing with this episode everyone is giving their opinion ,bashing teacher, headteacher and all. What is the REAL problem here. If I had a problem with my child I would visit the school and have a discussion with the Principal and Board. If I am dis satisfied I would visit the Ministry. No resolve I would then seek the opinion of all.
On the other hand if I have prepared my children with fixed answers for the teachers and those in charge I can expect anything negative or positive and be prepared to handle it. Is all of this about one side of a story anybody ask the people at the school what is their side of the story. Then we can all jump with our opinions
.
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Agree with you Shirf.
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Look Skinner morals and respect should be taught in the family household starting at infancy and not when a child reach teen age years or adulthood
The fact being that we as adults have constantly inched the goal post forward to accomadate bad behavior and attutudes
The question being where does it stop?
The truth being that her attitude is a replicate of thise with whom she interacts mostly and the measures necessary to correct where not enforced in the household resulting with a spillover effect in the classroom
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But….@ William Skinner wasn’t that dictum “Children live what they see” ALWAYS relevant to every generation. When you were at school it was so; it was so when I was there and so too when David.
The ‘young people’ of which we once were always had rebellious individuals. Many set a new tone and became progressive leaders for the next generation and others became cantankerous societal outcasts who today continue to be loud and obnoxious – now given voice with social media.
Simply stated the lad/lass was ill-disciplined not to follow the teacher’s direction. Further stated the teacher was too over-wrought w ith enforcing his/her direction and allowed a bad situation to escalate uncontrollably.
Back when you were a lad (presuming your age here) it would have been a blimp on the national radar…. maybe a dose of lashes from the principal; maybe a suspension for dissent. Or maybe both. Your parents may have reacted according to the times: obey the teachers…even as they sought to get the facts on the matter.
During my time…about the same; parental PTA power was more assertive towards students’ rights so maybe it would have been given a ‘tad bit more’ energy.
Now of course there is social media so the youths believe that the world starts and revolves around them and they judge their validity based on # of likes. Nonsense.
Of course, the child was not sent to school to pick up another ‘s garbage. But as has been said, discipline must be paramount. Obey the small direction and lodge your strong complaint afterwards,
Conversely the teacher and principal should handle the escalation of the matter accordingly and carefully as they too must be aware of the power of social media.
Bottom line the matter would have been minor 50, 35 or 20 years ago. And it’s still minor today. The social media publicity is the bane.
Why do we perceive that youth must be given all this absurd freedom…when did basic discipline and commonsense become so anathema!
Are we acclaiming youth enlightenment or abject ill-discipline!
We cannot continue to coddle behaviour which flaunts the base foundation of discipline under misguided concepts of youthful freedom or indeed adult ‘maturity’.
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Bushie have no idea what Skinner is on about….
Most of the Bushman’s cuss words were picked up recently from modern schoolchildren Boss…
Wuh you think Bushie would have even THOUGHT such language when the Bushman’s mother was alive…?
…but since she died a few years ago at a ripe old age …bushie checked with some school children ..and now Bushie licking cork….
…tell the truth, some of the ‘bad’ language does be sweet as shiite hear…!!? 🙂
Stop nitpicking…. Why wunna think Jesus used to lime with fishermen? …think dem fellows practiced Shakespearian prose or Chaucer’s olde English…?
…not brass bowl fishermen… Not now! …not then….!!
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@Dee Word
Do you understand the concept of unity of command? If the teacher erred should the principal not have intervened to protect the interest of the student?
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@ de Ingrunt Word February 3, 2016 at 4:45 PM
“Bottom line the matter would have been minor 50, 35 or 20 years ago. And it’s still minor today. The social media publicity is the bane.”
Oh yeah, so social media is to blame for the schoolgirl’s act of insubordination?
So how come Leroy Parris and Speaker Michael Carrington both born before 50 years ago can do all sorts of immoral acts and escape punishment other than social media opprobrium?
The schoolgirl was just using Carrington as her role model. She must have asked herself: “Why the f***k must I pick up litter when the Speaker robbed an old wheelchair-bound citizen of thousands and refuses to vacate the Speaker’s chair, permanently? What’s the sinful difference between a moral misdemeanour and a blatant act of thievery?
Shouldn’t the PM or the Minister of Education be advising the mother of the schoolgirl to get Anderson Cheery or Bizzy Williams to go to the school since there is ‘money in dem dar litter’?
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@ Miller…can’t say a word! As the man said, “Children live what they see” .
Regardless though there has never been a generation when adults did not flaunt their sins in the face of their young impressionable up and comers. If you want to discard all discipline based on that premiss then woe betides us all!
@David, not following your drift wid…”Do you understand the concept of unity of command? If the teacher erred …”
The principle has a duty to the school, not only the student or the teacher. I rather pointedly noted “`the teacher and principal should handle the escalation of the matter accordingly and carefully ….”
That spoke to YOUR point very simply. There surely was no need for me to go into any dissertation on school management.
And clearly I do not know what issues of governance, classroom disquiet or whatever else was in that mortar in addition to this itsy-bitsy litter pestle….Why on earth for example would there be talk (as read on BU) of moving the child from the school…over this! Fah real!
Which smart, practical principal would use a sledge hammer of long term suspension etc for such an incident unless there are other serious issues at play.
Anyhow, that’s enough on that.
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The mother also has an attitude problem in effect she is making demands as to where the board of education place her child. an excellent example of the apple not falling far from the tree ,
IMHO that mother should have taken the child back to school with a letter of apology to the teacher after the child smarted at the mouth instead of trying to push the goal post of bad attitudes and misbehavior across the goal line .
What is the mother purpose of opening up a new can of worms which would send the wrong messages to children who believe that the school is a playground where they can make their own rules
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@Dee Word
The point is that the matter escalated to the principal and this is where it needed to be resolved. What has happened here is a system problem and nothing to do with the student at this point.It again exposes the inability to resolve conflict.
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So in what manner should the principal stopped the escalation. Right now all assumptions given on this issue can be assesed by the emotions and response of both child and mother further to be esclated by the mother with her demands
I doubt very much outside the teacher and principle apologizing to the child nothing else would suffice the mother
Reason being as of yet the mother has not address the question of the child insubordination
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Lotta shiite!!
Man David close this blog nuh!
You KNOW that things bad when AC sounding vaguely sensible….and Simple Simon actually sounds wise…
You see why Barbados is CURSED…? Um ain’t only the politicians – the whole place fulla brass bowls…
Imagine this is one of the DEMONSTRATED better set of teachers in the public school system who have TURNED the reputation of that school 180 degrees – to the point where it has become highly respected for the RESULTS achieved in discipline, academics and particularly in sport….
..and we have a collection of “know-it-all parents” whose main claim to fame was to have paid Stinkliar’s illegal shiite tax recently …and who happily funds Bizzy with millions of tax dollars – for ordinary water (labeled DESAL) even when it is NOT supplied to BWA …by telling these teachers how to run their school…
How is it that clear brass bowls who cannot even rid themselves of Froon and his band of political bandits …now feel empowered to tell one of our few successful school staff how to run their damn school?
If the parent did not send her daughter to school to ‘pick up garbage’ then perhaps the child is best placed at another school where no one picks up any…
Every damn person wants to go to a school where EVERYONE ELSE picks up garbage – and hence the place is clean ….ent it?
…just like all the damn parents want to live in a decent country of disciplined people – but where THEY can do whatever the hell THEY like….
History is replete with examples of students ending up doing the VERY things they avoided while in school –
…many who avoided hard work end up as labourers
…many who refuse to follow teachers instructions end up following prison wardens’
…many who avoid cleaning garbage end up working for Bizzy…
Of course there are also those like Vincent who refused to listen to reason as a student …and who continues with the same shiite on BU ..even now that he is getting ready for diapers again…
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@ de Ingrunt World,
It is not the Barbados of our time my friend. Nostalgia is sometimes quite harmful. We yearn for a time that is no more.
@Bush Tea,
I am only saying that tone and language are also important to productive discourse.
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The late Gearbox sometimes would stand on the sidewalk on Broad street looking up at a hair in his hand.
When enough people gathered he would say ” I seen a lotta hair around a khunt but I have never seen so many khunts around one hair.” He would then laugh.
Substitute the sweetie wrapper for the hair.
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@ Hants,
That’s a classic ! reminds me of a deadly Michael Holding followed up by a biting Courtney Ambrose. That’s one for the ages.
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Lol!!!
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People want the school to forgive and re-admit the girl and to stop “punishing” her.
People seem to have forgotten that repentance MUST come before forgiveness.
Has the mother and child repented yet?
And asked forgiveness of the teacher and principal for the girl’s rudeness (by her mother’s own admission) and the girl’s insolence?
Its amazing how everybody wants to be forgiven, but not a fella wants to repent.
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“The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.
Children began to be the tyrants, not the slaves, of their households. They no longer rose from their seats when an elder entered the room; they contradicted their parents, chattered before company, gobbled up the dainties at table, and committed various offences against Hellenic tastes, such as crossing their legs. They tyrannised over the paidagogoi and schoolmasters.”
SOCRATES or maybe Kenneth John Freeman, for his Cambridge dissertation published in 1907
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Back in the days of the dinosaurs when I was knee high to grasshopper at my “good school” we were required to pick up our own litter from the school grounds and our classrooms EVERY DAY just before afternoon classes began.
Because after all the teachers had not put the litter there, and after all the teachers had all taught for many years and most of them were parents, and they KNEW that children are nasty, and untidy and ill disciplined. So we were made to clean up our own litter everyday. As a result I rarely litter. I tried to throw a dounce seed out of a car window once and an old school mate gave me a tongue lashing.
If children are taught to pick up their own litter Barbados will grow a generation of people who do not litter and our public spaces will become clean and pleasant places.
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Heard a young woman recently singing the praises of Ms. Ward (retired) of Harsun College. She was so strict that her students knew to pick up all litter and to straighten desks and generally tidy the room BEFORE Ms. Ward arrived.
And this was not in the bad old days.
Ms. Ward was a 21st century school teacher. A boss English teacher. A life skills teacher. Her students are doing wonderfully well, and as grown men and women they do not litter.
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“I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words… When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise
[disrespectful] and impatient of restraint” (Hesiod, 8th century BC)
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They young people have exalted notions, because they have not been humbled by life or learned its necessary limitations; moreover, their hopeful disposition makes them think themselves equal to great things — and that means having exalted notions. They would always rather do noble deeds than useful ones: Their lives are regulated more by moral feeling than by reasoning — all their mistakes are in the direction of doing things excessively and vehemently. They overdo everything — they love too much, hate too much, and the same with everything else.
(Aristotle)
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”
@Befuddled
Unfortunately, Barbadians in authority has [sic] the inbred mentality that children have no rights, and by portraying [sic] such they continue to demonsrate [sic] their ignorance to the world. How stupid do they make themselves appear in other parts of the world. Some adults fail to realize that a child is due respect just as much as the adult deserves to be respected”
The only ignorance is yours. With people like you, we are doomed. That is why democracy is a bad idea. You have the same vote I have.”
While there might be some justification or should I say consternation ‘In we who do nuttin wrong in our yuful dais’ bemoaning the behaviours/attitudes of what we generally see in children theses days; that does not mean that children do not have rights like us. I cannot speak definitively of the incident between student and principal so I am loathe to cast blame. However I cannot agree that because a we were mandated every Friday at school to participate in ‘operation bottle-stopper’ which decreed that pupils pick up the stoppers of bottles from the school yard cand I did so willingly although I could not afford to buy the standard coke or red juc from the canteen but took to school mauby or bay leaf tea instead did not make the unjustifiable instruction fair and just then and does not make it so now. It is misleading to invoke our perception of children’s behavioural patterns into the debate to justify our support for the Principal’s actions whether right or wrong.
I cannot find fault with Befuddled’s in my view reasoned comment.
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Do not understand in what context does the “rights” of this child have any thing to do with rude and uncouthed language.bear in mind that the child could have used suttle language of stating her displeasure to the teacher or even questioning the reason should she have to pick up the litter
However the childs answer gives a clear indication of defiance and combativeness when a request is made wherby she belives it is not of benefit to herself.
Already this child is demonstrating a troubling view which is systematic in society and which many hold fast to in the way business ought to be done in tackling societies problems words to the effect “it is none of my business
This is a clear cut case where remedial measures seeking resolution was treated with a hostile reaction and society if continue to endorse such reaction under the disguise of “superficial rights” would not be bettered
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I guess you have all the facts Ac and can so enunciate with authority. I stand corrected then.
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We always seem to lose the plot with these kinds of issues. The buck stopped at the principal and the MOE to have resolved this matter at an early stage. Yes an action by the student started it, perhaps made worse by the teacher. We should use the incident to improve how we do things. Stop the damn blind analysis especially when the facts are not known.
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balance ac comments are directed towards action and reactions 1. the action of the teacher as stated as a request to student 2 the student inappropriate response,, nothing more nothing less ,
trying to throw a straw man objection to my response is flawed
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@ balance
I guess you have all the facts Ac and can so enunciate with authority
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What the hell ‘facts’ you talking about?
Have you EVER had to deal with large numbers of intelligent teenagers every day
…ALL DAY LONG?
Facts shiite!!
So every little squabble, every fight, every missing item, every disruptive noise, every piece of litter…..you will investigate to get the ‘facts’ – before taking action as a teacher?
Steupsss – your nickname would soon be ‘Equus africanus asinus balance’
You think these children foolish…?
Shiite man – that is exactly what Froon and his goons seem to be doing…. waiting for ‘facts’ to arrive before taking sensible action to arrest crime, bad driving habits, political corruption …anything….
Listen boss…
..Intelligent teachers HAVE to use their judgement and experience to take control of their classrooms …or the students will take control…and they MAY err…
..Intelligent teachers DO NOT FOCUS on conducting forensic tests on dropped sweet wrappers in order to ensure that the student whose fingerprints are on it, is the one to pick it up…
Intelligent teachers take IMMEDIATE DECISIVE ACTION to establish who is running things in that classroom …and quickly get back to teaching.
Ask Vincent how ‘Rubber Nut’ used to deal with disruptive chatter…. or Hants about ‘Tank’..
Stop with the lotta shiite talk bout your picking up stoppers ‘when you had mauby’ – you ever heard about collective responsibility? – it is also called community spirit.
It is OBVIOUS that all of wunna who are talking shiite could NEVER stand in this teacher or principal ‘s shoes. Lotta incoherent noises from confirmed empty bowls….. and pulling down one of the few positives in the whole damn eddykashun system bout here too..
The silence of the Teachers Unions in this particular matter is interesting ..and deafening….
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Shiite man!!
REALLY can’t believe that Bushie defending AC….
The end is near…
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David do you have all of the corresponding facts as to how the MOF is addressing the issue If so bring them to table
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This issue should not have got past the head of the school,now called the Principal but who is the HEADTEACHER.When Major Cecil Noott spoke,no damn dog barked.When 6th former Captain Harold Edmund Crichlow of No 3 Company Barbados Cadet Corps,Head Boy,walked the corridor at Weymouth,not a damn dog barked.There was no school so disciplined as Combermere.Any pupil disobeying Head Boy or prefect let alone a master,knew he had crossed the rubicon and knew what to expect in return for his insolence.The worst punishment was a whipping before the assembled in the school hall.it was a very rare occasion.Not a boy wanted that,the final humiliation.
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Bushie,
Is this principal perfect then? Is she not subject to scrutiny just like anyone else? Should she be given carte blanche to do whatever she pleases? Everyone makes mistakes and it is unfortunate when we refuse to acknowledge them and correct them before they get out of hand. The methods used in days gone by will no longer work because children today have been made aware of their rights.
What is obvious is that you are a dinosaur in certain respects. Let me tell you that I started my teaching at the age of twenty-four, looking like eighteen, at a SENIOR SCHOOL with a class of 15 and 16 year olds. It was a rough class of which two were criminals known by their neighbours but not by the law. Stole from a church. One of them is now in prison for murder and the other, a drug dealer of some repute, is dead. I managed to keep relative order in that class with of course some attempted intimidation from the delinquents. I stood my ground an actually manage to teach the syllabus.There was no turning those guys around though.. They were intelligent but hell bent
Elsie Payne kept more order than Tank Williams by using the opposite method. I saw her tame HARRISON COLLEGE BOYS with a few quiet reasonable words and a statement of her expectations. See the culprits slinking off to the office, heads bowed to turn themselves in.
Kudos to Mrs. Bellamy for her success. She must not however, make the common mistake of thinking that this gives her the licence to do whatever she pleases. She is still answerable to the taxpayers for how she treats their children.
All parents are not brass bowls or antagonistic. I certainly am not. But I reserve the right to question in a reasonable manner what I deem to be unfair actions by any teacher or principal especially to my child.
Lastly, let me tell you, Bushie, that if you as a teacher kept punishing my goody two shoes self for actions committed by other students I would have made sure that you had something to punish me for. And if you kept lashing me for the actions of other classmates you would have seen goody two shoes turn into a mad child, grab the stick and run you out of the classroom. I might not have been able to return but neither would you because you would have been too shame.
Sensible and intelligent teachers usually judge the character of students in a hurry and know what each is capable of. I usually knew who the culprits were likely to be.
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Today’s NationNews (Feb 4, 2016) carries a story about hotel workers in St Lawrence removing old tires and other garbage from the Gap in order to discourage mosquito breeding which could result in the spending of the dreaded Zika virus.
I suppose their parents sent them to school to learn how to pick up garbage. Children repeat what they see, hear and learn. I remember as a boy having to scrub my desk at the end of term and this was when my parents had to pay school fees.
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@Bush Tea “..Intelligent teachers HAVE to use their judgement and experience to take control of their classrooms …or the students will take control…and they MAY err…
..Intelligent teachers DO NOT FOCUS on conducting forensic tests on dropped sweet wrappers in order to ensure that the student whose fingerprints are on it, is the one to pick it up… Intelligent teachers take IMMEDIATE DECISIVE ACTION to establish who is running things in that classroom …and quickly get back to teaching.
Ask Vincent how ‘Rubber Nut’ used to deal with disruptive chatter…. or Hants about ‘Tank’..”
I second this.
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The comments allegedly made by the student has been interpreted by some “pseudo psychiatrists” (without knowledge of the all the facts) as being “rude and uncouth language.” However, we must bear in mind that it is human nature for people to respond to others in a manner similarly to how they were approached.
Is there evidence to suggest that the teacher was polite in her approach to the student? Or has anyone taken into consideration that the teacher may have been rude, uncouth and aggressive in asking to student to comply with her request, causing the student reciprocate accordingly?
Does anyone know if the teacher has a history of being rude and abrupt in her approach to students or are we assuming because she is a teacher, no matter her approach, she is correct and the student wrong?
If the student in question has a history of being obstreperous, would it not be better to find the root cause of her problems by recommending counseling, rather than immediately resorting to some form of punishment?
Those who have an obsession with reminiscing about the “good old days,” (just like Mark Williams and Mark Wilson) would obviously have their bias towards the teacher, because in those days the teacher was “always right.” It was the norm in those days to “give a student lashes for not learning,” and it was the norm for others to say “the teacher right to beat he, ‘cause he (“dumpcy”).”
Any bet those teachers did not know how many of those “dumpcy” students suffered from learning disabilities such as dyslexia, and unjustly administered corporal punishment.
This issue has been debated, ad nauseam, in the print, electronic, social media and public domain; with both parties involved giving “their side of the story.” As such, without having availed ourselves with the facts, we are only continuing to make assumptions.
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The conscientious objectors to civic responsibility are out in out in full force exemplfying their indulgence to be part of the problem and prefer to rather not search for solutions
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@FearPlay February 4, 2016 at 8:52 AM
“Today’s NationNews (Feb 4, 2016) carries a story about hotel workers in St Lawrence removing old tires and other garbage from the Gap in order to discourage mosquito breeding which could result in the spending of the dreaded Zika virus.”
What a perfect example to follow! One can only wish such a paragon of emulation could be adopted by the management and workers of the National Housing Corporation, the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of the Environment.
Has anyone checked to see if the many unoccupied houses built under the stewardship of Michael King Kickback Lashes are the modern breeding grounds for mosquitoes? Who will be held responsible for such dereliction of duty?
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Hmmmm ……….. “conscientious objectors to civic responsibility.”
Using Fruendel Stuart’s terminology, the last time I looked in the dictionary “conscientious objectors” meant:
“Individuals who refuse, on moral or religious grounds (reasons of conscience), to bear arms in a military conflict or to serve in the armed forces.”
So we can re-write:
The users of malapropisms “are out in out in full force EXEMPLIFYING their IGNORANCE to be part of the problem and prefer to rather not search for solutions.”
Wunnuh is nuff, nuff idiots, hear.
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Look, duh want wunnuh out by de Leroy Parris and Michael Carrington blogs.
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@ac February 4, 2016 at 10:06 AM
“The conscientious objectors to civic responsibility are out in out in full force exemplfying their indulgence to be part of the problem and prefer to rather not search for solutions”
When you have demanded from the Speaker Carrington an apology to the Parliament and by extension the public of Barbados we will listen to you, Ac, on any topic of morality involving either children or adults.
When a country can have a primus inter pares bestowing the title of the Right Honourable Estimable Gentleman on a now certified crook called Parris inter Thompson what standard of behaviour would you expect from those of so-called impressionable minds called schoolchildren?
Please get off your hypocritical high-horse of morality and call a spade a ‘blade’.
“Those who are without Sin, cast the first stone”.
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millertheanunnaki,
“Primus inter” Parris. “Parris inter Thompson”.
Are you sure you are speaking Latin?
I can picture Stanton and Bumpy picking up their cane and giving you six, each.
Then when you get home, and go complaining to your mother, she would tell you: “Boy, go to France from in front of me.”
And she would be right. In France, you would become a gentleman and use elegant phrases like: ménage à trois.
Like Austin Powers, am I not a cunning linguist?
LOL
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Fearplay,
I pick up other people’s garage all the time, So does my child but NOBODY FORCES us. It is a question of rights. Aren’t you smart enough to be able to compare apples with apples? Their bosses did not force them. They were smart enough to realize that it is in their own best interest. Children should be ENCOURAGED to do the same.
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Artaxerxes,
Some of these teachers nowadays are extremely rude and uncouth. If they had me to deal with they would be answered as rudely as they addressed me.
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Donna Feb 4th
Some of these teachers nowadays are extremely rude and uncouth. If they had me to deal with they would be answered as rudely as they addressed me.
Name one teacher or relevant interaction/s to verify what you said ..i suspect that you are making up a story to support your insipid belief that children have a right to be ill mannered and disrespectful to the teacher when asked to do remedial task in school .
As to your intent it speaks clearly of a mindset woven together with a disturbing complex view of life expressed in your manner of speech
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What?????
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Good night, Miss Malaprop!
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some people would say or do any thing to arouse suspicion even by way to make certain claims founded on perceptions and speculation which are not true. A claim to the extent where one states to be knowledgeable of a circumstance should be followed by proof
Unless one wishes to exhibit a profound excellence in half truth and misinformation commonly knows as being a liar
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What the hell are you on about AC…. that is gibberish…
Shiite woman – they like they had you picking up garbage all day long when you were at school yuh…
You went to Springer…?
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Minister Jones good for some laughs and a few truths as well.
http://www.barbadostoday.bb/2016/02/04/its-uncouth-says-jones/
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ac February 4, 2016 at 9:22 PM #
“some people would say or do anything to arouse suspicion even by way to make certain claims founded on perceptions and speculation which are not true. A claim to the extent where one states to be knowledgeable of a circumstance should be followed by proof. Unless one wishes to exhibit a profound excellence in half truth and misinformation commonly known as being a liar…”
@ AC
Are you referring to Jeptar Ince?
Your above comments reminded me of an incident involving your Senator and the youngster he knocked off a bicycle. The policeman who investigated the accident said his years experience as a police officer led him to conclude that Ince’s version of the events were not true. So, Ince “exhibited a profound excellence in half truth and misinformation commonly known as being a liar…”
Also, the DLP “exhibited a profound excellence in half truth and misinformation commonly known as being a liar…” when they promised to ITAL immediately after forming the government in 2008. Eight years after….. no ITAL.
How about Ronald Jones comments relative to uncouth teachers. Is he “saying or doing anything to arouse suspicion even by way to make certain claims founded on perceptions and speculation which are not true?”
Below is an excerpt from Thursday February 4, 2016 edition of Barbados Today:
There is an uncouthness in the way some professionals in educational institutions across Barbados are treating students, Minister of Education Ronald Jones has said.
“How you treat them in your verbal communication, how you talk to them, determines how they feel too. I have been coming across a little too much of piggery behaviour from some of our learning institutions and it is doing significant harm,” Jones said.
He added: “Somebody will write in some paper how I am disrespecting somebody. I speaking the truth. I am positioned where I would know. They don’t, so accept my word and shut your foolish mouth. There is a bit too much of uncouth behaviour to our clients.”
So, in your opinion Jones’ “claim to the extent where one states to be knowledgeable of a circumstance should be followed by proof?”
Knowing you, however, as long as a DLP minister is involved you “gine turn yuh mout.”
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Donna February 4, 2016 at 1:05 PM #
“Some of these teachers nowadays are extremely rude and uncouth. If they had me to deal with they would be answered as rudely as they addressed me.”
@ Donna
Pay no attention to those AC idiots, you are correct. Read Ronald Jones comments as in yesterday’s edition of Barbados Today.
http://www.barbadostoday.bb/2016/02/04/its-uncouth-says-jones/
Any bet those AC legion of demons will not make a comment similar to the one they made to you to Jones. They will say Jones is correct.
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Sir i did not direct my request to Jones. But to the recipient of the comment who alleges to know that there are uncouth teachers.
Wherby on that premise i asked the recipient to show proff of any incidents or interactions she might have engaged with uncouthed teachers.
So far none has been provided
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“Sir i did not direct my request to Jones. But to the RECIPIENT of the comment who alleges to know that there are uncouth teachers. Wherby on that premise i asked the RECIPIENT to show proff of any incidents or interactions she might have engaged with uncouthed teachers. So far none has been provided.”
The definition of a RECIPIENT is a person or thing who RECEIVES something.
So are you implying Donna RECEIVED the comment? Or, you asked the RECEIVER of the comment to show proof?
Once, we will say it is a mistake…. but twice?…. dah means yuh en know.
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Sir again i directed a specific request of action to the person Donna to give proof to support the claim which she forwarded stating teachers are uncouthed.
Sir you acting as secondary agent on behalf of Donna and using Jones statement is not sufficient an indicator of first hand knoweldge as to what Donna say she knows
Since you seem to be in agreement with donna claim you ought to bring your own proof as justification
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@William Skinner February 3, 2016 at 11:26 PM …”It is not the Barbados of our time my friend. Nostalgia is sometimes quite harmful. We yearn for a time that is no more.”.
In reality it is not the nostalgia of seeking some halcyon days…rather it’s just to put things in perspective. Let me pick up on Gabriel’s remark re the oft heard days of yore to illustrate.
Former Dean Harold Crichlow lauded over his school as noted but can we imagine ANYONE acting in that authoritative way today and not being vilified and removed?
Read Donna’s (this is not an attack, dear lady) remark rather tongue in cheek or otherwise that she would basically give as good as she got from out-of-line teachers. In the time of the Dean at Waterford and indeed others like Head Boy Simmons at Lodge and others…a time when a Head Boy was the king on ‘campus’ — there would NEVER be a question of an order/direction being ‘out of place’. Nope!
And that – good and bad – is THE big difference with our youth and culture today.
I recall a big fight one day that involved two upper school lads, a 2X3 and a meandering slew of fisticuffs and shouts of impending death that moved from playing field to corridors outside class-rooms. Whole school engrossed in this big bassa-bassa during lunch.
It was not halted, as I recall, until one of the more strapping male teachers brought matters under control.
Now where that happened is absolutely not important as it could have been at any one of our public schools.
The point: Today that would be all over social media, wid style points for fight, cussing and all manner of folly. It would be viral as we are often prone to say…whatever that actually means in a positive sense…
As Hants so amusingly said…a lot of ‘wholly’ mess around a lot of hairy mess’…or something like that.
Gearbox, Sharky and surely King Redvers Dyall were really the first local social media darlings – before we even knew what that meant – as they always had a lot of folks watching their snarky, sartorial sloppy, smelly selves!!!
And of course now we have all that type of folly and indiscipline going viral to millions at a time…oh how we have grown and matured…haven’t we!!!!
Gearbox…turning wid a smile, fah real!
Later.
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@ ac February 5, 2016 at 1:48 PM
“Sir again i directed a specific request of action to the person Donna to give proof to support the claim which she forwarded stating teachers are uncouthed..”
There might not be “evidence’ that some teachers are uncouth but there is ample evidence that too many teachers and principals are blissfully unaware of the inalienable rights of children as setout under the UNICEF charter or convention on the rights of children to which your well-intentioned government has gleefully signed onto or ratified to show off Barbados to be a modern progressive country keen to promote the rights of not only children but all citizens.
Based of the provisions of the following articles of the Charter surely the schoolgirl is within her rights not to pick up litter she did not create.
As for the teacher and the Principal the punishment meted out to the child could be considered cruel and inhuman(e) as covered by Articles 28 & 37.
Article 13
1. The child shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of the child’s choice.
Article 14
1. States Parties shall respect the right of the child to freedom of thought, conscience and religion.
Article 28
2. States Parties shall take all appropriate measures to ensure that school discipline is administered in a manner consistent with the child’s human dignity and in conformity with the present Convention.
Article 37
States Parties shall ensure that:
(a) No child shall be subjected to torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. Neither capital punishment nor life imprisonment without possibility of release shall be imposed for offences committed by persons below eighteen years of age…
Article 39
States Parties shall take all appropriate measures to promote physical and psychological recovery and social reintegration of a child victim of: any form of neglect, exploitation, or abuse; torture or any other form of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment; or armed conflicts. Such recovery and reintegration shall take place in an environment which fosters the health, self-respect and dignity of the child.
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Arexteres
@ac
Any bet those AC legion of demons will not make a comment similar to the one they made to you to Jones. They will say Jones is correct.
Indeed ac would not say Jones is a liar knowing that he has daily interactions with the educational system and ought to have first hand knowledge to verify his comments
However his truthfulness can also be and indictment upon himself as to what he knows and rather than exposing himself as a critic of first hand information IMHO as an elected minister he ought to be guided by a handed of resolution which seeks with purpose and intent to weed out those teachers who display uncoutched and unmannerly actions in a learning environment
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miller
@ ac
Based of the provisions of the following articles of the Charter surely the schoolgirl is within her rights not to pick up litter she did not create
Article 29 (Goals of education): Children’s education should develop each child’s personality, talents and abilities to the fullest. It should encourage children to respect others, human rights and their own and other cultures. It should also help them learn to live peacefully, protect the environment and respect other people.
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To Bush Tea’s point, we are now expected to raise our children by selecting from a menu of laws. We see how that has gone if we peer at the USA way if dog things. Sad.
>
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Well as long as Barbados has signed on to laws and treaties,the inevitable happens, However the impact of such laws gives real guidance which individuals should appreciate and acknowledge bearing in mind that the purpose and intent is the overriding factor which is beneficial to all.
Yes some would nit pick as proof to support their causes . However the impact of these laws are crucial to a re affirming and the security of all human rights
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@ ac February 7, 2016 at 9:08 AM
“It should also help them learn to live peacefully, protect the environment and respect other people.”
And that is precisely why the teacher and the principal erred both morally and legally.
In the absence of specific evidence of the girl creating litter (aka ‘despoiling’ the environment) a lesson should have been taught to the entire class and not just punishing (not even disciplining) the individual child.
Why not let the entire class work on a small project whose core message should be the need to protect the environment from litterbugs to the benefit of society? Such a valuable lesson can be seen as part of the students’ continuing improvement in the whole teaching and learning cycle.
Using a sledgehammer to kill a wayward ant is certainly not on in today’s school learning environment. Let those slave-like Victorian-era approaches to discipline remain where they belong; in the past.
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i would agree with you partially considering the child’s involvement through necessary molding activated by a learning process… However far for you to indicate that such a program is not already implemented in the school curricula
For me the bottom line is the girls unmannerly and rude response to the teacher which merits discipline
Also the parent must now be held for the overextended disciplinary measures with her outrageous demands which is cause for her child not returning to school
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Today’s VoB Brasstacks talk show is being promoted as addressing the issues this matter has brought to the fore.
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The male on the talk show today needs to appreciate outlier feedback CANNOT be trivialized.
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What is he smoking? That the problems if reported will be reported and dealt with efficiently. Please! Did Jones deal with the AX report efficiently?
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Sir different time different issue,, Well i suggest that You take your own advice and respond accordingly relative to current issues
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Japan is one the world’s leading economic powers. You know what makes Japan such a discipline country`? Take a look at the video below. Then when you compared the valuable skills these kids learning ask yourselves why Japan has progressed so fast and why Barbados is still talking about ithttp://www.littlethings.com/school-lunch-in-
japan-v5/?utm_source=quirky&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=misc
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Children don’t complain about collective responsibility. they complain about selective discipline. That’s the difference. This is not like the” bright” ones telling the “dull” ones what to do and teachers’ pets being allowed to get away with all kinds of things
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Really?
http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/77607/police-respond-incident-involving-springer-student
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Really?
Pauline Bellamy?
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Really Ronald Jones?
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Really Springer PTA?
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Really BSTU and BTU?
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You got to be forkin kiddin me!!!
Are they all trying to prove Bushie’s theory that Bajans are brassbowls ?
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What nonsense. A girl is being denied an education for not picking up a candy wrapper. The usual political yard-fowls will, for political reasons, condone the actions of the principal, while condemning the student and her mother.
This matter should not have been allowed to escalate to the point where police had to be involved. If the parent does not want her daughter to attend the school as suggested by the MoE, then a compromise could have been made and the girl allowed to attend a school as mutually agreed by both parties.
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@ David / BU
We need to focus attention on a lot of unjust in Barbados now by these hand pick civil servants, who carry out the ministers dictate to browbeating people
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@Artax
What are you saying? You know the SSS do not give a rats ass about these nasty politicians, but this is a matter that could have easily been dealt with if the instruction given was not meted by the child’s blatant stance. She got her ass suspended and the mother decided to go rampaging. Whose fault was that and how the heck that solved the problem? If the derange mother had any sense that was common to her, she would have made her daughter write a letter of apology for the part she played in her rudeness. I am sure she would have been back in school with no problems. But, no, she escalated the problem in the papers since she felt it was her time to stand up for something instead of falling for the ministry’s anything. I bet you if the headteacher had decided to make the child pick every piece of paper from around the school during her break and lunch period, people would start talking all sorts of shite about child abuse and the slave mentality of the head teacher. The child is out of school because of the child. The length of time that the child remained out of school is the fault of the stupid ass mother, who has shown the world of Barbadians why the child is the way that she is. I ain’t blaming the headteacher or the ministry for how this stupid matter has played out. De-escalate the situation was the asking, not escalating it with ignorance.
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