Submitted by Douglas
Peter Wickham - CADRES
Peter Wickham – CADRES

Does it sound familiar? Just rewind to 2013 and the Barbados general election. A particular pollster/political guru had the DLP to get whitewashed; or as we would say in local lingo – ‘catspraddled’. Well, we all know the outcome; the DLP was returned to office, and that pollster/pundit, who had egg all over his face, now spends every waking hour excoriating the government on air and in print. Big Joker!

Heard him a week or so ago pontificating that the Scottish people deserve better and a ‘Yes’ vote would shake-up Whitehall. However, when a caller tried to put him on the spot and asked him to predict the outcome, he was somewhat non-committal and hedging; probably remembering how he and the Belle Tower made a fool of themselves in 2013. I am waiting to hear that pollster on last night’s result. I am sure he will do a volte-face; that is his accustomed mo.

Scotland’s Referendum is an object lesson for the self-righteous. People Power always wins out. For the record, I was hoping and wishing for a ‘No’ result. It makes sense. Alex Salmond wanted to have his cake and eat it too – aka- the best of both worlds.

Scotland’s ‘No’ Vote: A Loss for Pollsters and a Win for Betting Markets

by Justin Wolfer

Thursday’s Scottish referendum was interesting not just for what it said about Britain, but also for what it said about the state of political forecasting. I’m calling it a loss not only for the pro-independence movement — the “No” campaign won 55.3 percent of the vote — but also for the pollsters.

To be fair, I should start by acknowledging that most of the election-eve polls correctly predicted a majority No vote, but they all underestimated the margin, and many missed by quite a lot. The polls were volatile; they often gave conflicting signals; and it took them until the last few weeks to even start to suspect that this would be a close race. The major polls in the past week ranged from a 6-point lead for the Yes vote to a 7-point lead for the No vote.
And this wide range wasn’t because of wild fluctuations in public opinion. It was the result of two surveys that were taken within a day of each other.

The prediction markets, on the other hand, yielded much more reliable forecasts. Despite the demise of Intrade, these markets remain extremely active, and over at Betfair, bettors rated the chances of a No vote at around 80 percent, an estimate that remained remarkably stable over the past week, fluctuating by only a few points.

British bookies were laying similar odds. According to The Financial Times, a Ladbrokes spokesman argued earlier this week that the referendum would be the biggest political betting event in history, noting that his firm had taken more money in bets than the last British general election and American presidential election combined. Betting on the likely winning margin also suggested that the No vote was most likely to win by around 4 points. Yes, bettors underestimated the winning margin, but they were still closer than the election-week polling average.

My own research with Microsoft’s David Rothschild suggests that pollsters could do a better job if they learned from prediction markets. Instead of focusing on whom people say they plan to vote for, ask them instead to focus on who they think will win. Typically, asking people who they think will win yields better forecasts, possibly because it leads them to also reflect on the opinions of those around them, and perhaps also because it may yield more honest answers.
It’s an idea with particular relevance to the case of the Scottish referendum. As Stephen Fisher, an associate professor of political sociology at the University of Oxford, has noted, there is a historical tendency for polling to overstate the likelihood of success of referendums, possibly because we’re more willing to tell pollsters we will vote for change than to actually do so. Such biases are less likely to distort polls that ask people who they think will win. Indeed, in giving their expectations, some respondents may even reflect on whether or not they believe recent polling.

And in this election, too, voters’ expectations yielded a much clearer signal. A recent IPSOS/More poll showed that voters’ intentions were so evenly balanced as to be within the margin of error, even as the share of the population who expected the No vote to win held a robust 11-point lead over those expecting a successful Yes vote. Lesson: The electorate knew who would win, even as most pollsters failed to ask them.

There’s also a lesson here that’s relevant to the debate about the importance of whether to adjust polling results for “fundamentals,” as Leo, the Upshot’s election forecasting model, does. If you take polling results literally, you can be forced to predict a win even when the polling points in an unlikely direction (as when it suggested Herman Cain would win the Republican nomination). But prediction markets, like sophisticated statistical models, can also take into account other information that would temper such a prediction. In the Scottish case, the “fundamental” worth noting is that it’s hard to get a referendum to pass.

But my real beef with the polls concerns how badly they’ve failed at making useful long-run forecasts. Predicting what will happen tomorrow is never that hard, while predicting what will happen in several months or years is not only difficult but also much more useful.

Thanks to Oliver Lee, an amateur psephologist who has tracked the betting odds day by day, and the good folks at UK Polling Report, who have tracked the major polls, we can compare the very different narratives they’ve given over the longer run. Don’t be fooled by the fact that very similar numbers have a very different meaning: When a pollster says you’re going to win only 30 percent of the vote, you’re set to lose in a landslide, whereas when a market says you have a 30 percent chance to win, it’s saying you’ve got a real chance. And that’s basically what happened.
Throughout most of the campaign, few gave the pro-independence supporters a chance. From the early surveys in 2012 and 2013, all the way through to those run as recently as June of this year, most polls registered support for the Yes campaign as running in the mid-to-low 30s. A few nudged above 40 percent, but far more registered support in the 20s. It’s no surprise, then, that the news media largely ignored the referendum, and that pundits basically wrote it off as a sideshow.

It took a shocking YouGov survey earlier this month, which pointed to a winning Yes vote, to finally awaken pundits from their slumber. But in fact, throughout the entire campaign, prediction markets judged the race as being very much alive, and on average throughout 2012-13, the average betting odds suggested around a one-in-four chance that the pro-independence groups would succeed. True, the independence campaign ultimately failed, but this seemed a better assessment of the actual risks than polls suggesting an electoral blowout.
Ultimately, the Scots didn’t end up voting for change on Thursday. But perhaps this election will change political punditry instead. I’m betting that next time Scottish independence comes up for a vote, political forecasters will rely more on prediction markets or on surveys asking voters what they expect will happen.

Justin Wolfers is a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics and professor of economics and public policy at the University of Michigan.

93 responses to “Scotland and CADRES”


  1. @David
    We are afraid you seem to be flying in the face of a large body of knowledge. We don’t see how the two can be separated in the way you presented. At the highest level, art and science are one. Just like certain people like to say the father and son are One. So are art and science. LOL


  2. @Pacha

    Give thanks it is not Bush Tea commenting because he would probably label polling as Shyte.lol.


  3. @ David
    Are you seeking to argue for ‘art’ instead of science in order to advance doubts about validity? Bushie is incapable of doing anything wrong! LOL


  4. Tridents lose. Ravi Rampaul pole shyte 19th over.lol


  5. Ravi is NOT a death bowler.


  6. Not surprised Wickham is presenting the “art” as a defense a carry over of his artful dodging in formulating his now defunct poll.nobody stupid not to understand what is at play here. however Wickham Poll if as he stated was a part of art .his failure to present its beauty is still questionable.more like a crappy picture that was poorly painted..so much for his artistry.


  7. @PAcha

    Shew on this:

    The scientific method is a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning. …
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_analysis

    How can opinions as a source of the primary data be defined as empirical therefore an error rate of -+5%.

  8. Mia firing of Maria Agard Avatar
    Mia firing of Maria Agard

    It is more clear to the public that this guy Wickham based purely on his recent history and his recent past, itvis very clear that once he given a well paying job to carry out that based on the outcome required by the client he can taylor make his questions and target his right person to Poll to arrive at a verdict that pleases the party who has paid him the fee he sets them to pay, after all you got to give him a little spending money to take these exotic vacations with his boyfriends as often as he needs them.there is no doubt in the minds of many Barbadians that once he gets what money he wants he will deliver the outcome to the purchaser of his fabication what they want his Poll to show, is there is a lot of credibility left ij the guy I hardly think that there is an ounce left to find in him, so he has no reason to worry or even factor in a reputation as it is a loss cause.


  9. An error rate of plus/minus 5% from the mean is acceptable. The reverse is also true and is considered a normal distribution. Meaning that if the same poll was conducted many times over we could expect a confidence level of 95% that the results are repeatable, would be the same. Error is normally 2 times the standard deviation. See a normal distribution or bell cure with 2.5% at either end.

    Opinions or perceptions can be the sources of primary data in several ways. Firstly, a questionnaire could be structured giving respondent a range of choices – (1) Strongly agree – (2) Agree (3) Neither (4) Disagree (5) Strongly disagree. So given these possible responses and we were to ask if FJS was a good PM we would then have data from the respondent to analyze using a number of statistical models. So we would have just transformed opinions into numbers and numbers into statistics. This is a quantitative method. I am really trying to keep this as simple as I can.

    Secondly, if we were doing a case study, for example, we may do long interviews with a relatively small number of people and would ask them the same questions. This is a qualitative approach. Suppose we spoke to 10 people for one hour each and based on the recordings we could then compare the responses to our open ended questions by using one of a number of computer tools. Once the parameters are set, similar to the questionnaire above, we would have essentially arrived at the same point we were at using the quantitative approach as above. In both cases we would turned opinions, perceptions in data. Data into statistics and statistics into a generalized view held by a population. Remember, we are never really interested in the sample, per say, our interests is the population. And because it is difficult to study a whole population we study the sample to then be able to say the population feels this or that way.

    We hope we have not succeeded in confusing you. LOL


  10. So the sample has to be representative of the population


  11. @Pacha

    Garbage in garbage out, whether one used likert scale or not. This is why art is involved in the design of the instrument…lol.

  12. Mia firing of Maria Agard Avatar
    Mia firing of Maria Agard

    You mean the art of drafting the question in the way that you get the response you want to get so as to satisfy the person giving you their dollars ???


  13. @ David
    We still fail to see your difference without a distinction! Art and science are (is) one


  14. The point dear Pacha is that a political poll or in this case a poll on the outcome of Scotland’s referendum cannot be accepted as deterministic. In a charged/emotive environment as was the case in Scotland or the last general election with perceived narrow margins, respondents will screw your population sample every time. What scientific what!?!


  15. oh, oh, david you are being scientific ,,, never heard a manly man refer to another man as “dear” that is my complete scientific analysis on such a term of endearment,,,and yes all know that pacha is a full blooded man hell bent in keeping his masculinity in favour of the opposite sex .


  16. @ David
    We disagree. A poll only measures perceptions at the time/s the data were collected. If your small point is that perceptions could change by the minute, we agree. That constantly changing perceptions can effect outcomes, we agree. But to make the grand charge you have is not tenable, we are afraid. Wickham has a stellar record he has been seldom wrong over, what, 15 years or so! Polls can’t measure vote tiefing either or the emotional impact of circumstances nearer to or on polling day.

    Put it this way, a poll is really a biopsy. A sample of tissue a doctor takes to see if the population, the tumor, is cancerous, for example. There is no difference. If you want to hold your current view you might as well forget any such test your doctor will recommend in the future.


  17. @Pacha

    Feel free to disagree but opinion polling is in its infancy. It is a useful observation that Wickham’s poll failed in a scenario where there was a narrow margin. also, research shows the more complex the polling space the greater probability of failure. What science what!?!


  18. Sorry, let us agree to disagree. But because something is science it can’t mean it is right all the time. On the other hand, to throw it out the window in the flippant way you suggest borders on recklessness. Would you and Bushie want to dispense with all kinds of census surveys of all types too. What a marketing surveys? Or focus groups.

  19. overseasbajanyankee Avatar
    overseasbajanyankee

    @Pacha

    ignore David, polling and surveys have always be designated as a science and that what I have been taught when I did the course even though there are quantitative and qualitative aspect to the aforementioned, graham dann and christene barrow taught us that it was a science, it is not an exact science like natural science.


  20. @ David
    By the way, this thing about polling being in its infancy is wrong too, we’re afraid!


  21. Everything you see around you is based on some kind of test.


  22. Pachamama | September 20, 2014 at 5:47 PM |
    Art and science are (is) one
    you are correct in that whereas science is by definition knowledge, art is the practice of that knowledge.

    A few examples from my profession
    All doctors know the Anatomy of the abdomen; surgeons pracice this knowledge when they do surgery therein THAT IS ARTISTRY!

    In the early 90’s there used to be an antihistamine called Hismanal. It had a long onset of action and a long duration of actions. It took long to start to act, but once it started to act it worked for a long period of time because it was re-excreted in the bile without being quickly destroyed in the liver.

    In hay fever season it was very useful, because one could treat a hay fever sufferer by giving them a histamine with a short onset of action and a short duration of action at the same time you gave Hismanal.

    You would give drug with the short onset of action and a short duration of action so that the patient would have rapid if not sustained relief while the HISMANAL got working. at this time you could stop the short acting drug and carry on with the Hismanal.

    in so doing one used the SCIENCE OR KNOWLEDGE TO PRACTICE THE ART OF USING THESE ANTIHISTAMINES.

    IN LIFE FASHION ONE WOULD USE A DRUG THAT IS LARGELY SECRETED INTO THE URINE TO TREAT URINARY INFECTIONS.

    YES INDEED PACHA IN MANY THINGS ART AND SCIENCE ARE ONE!


  23. sorry to intervene ,,but david ,,dou understand the methodology of polling and the many links attributed to its research and findings through science,,,which is called the psychology or the science of the mind,in other words the (art] plays a small part and is only meant to dissect or cut out,, not at all the pivotal or overriding factor of determination, even though the pollster might use subliminal markers as an invitation or coercion in getting the required answers from the respondent..the fact as pachman stated and the overriding factor when those polls are taken is how the respondent replies, by taking into account a well crafted scientific machine which details and relies on the the reaction of the mind for set or standard answers


  24. Georgie Porgie
    Thanks, you have described this in ways I could not!


  25. @Pacha

    Let us agree to disagree.


  26. l David | September 20, 2014 at 8:45 PM |
    Pacha

    Let us agree to disagree.

    ”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””

    David and the survey SAYS you were WRONG..


  27. But David you are always the man calling on government to have plans for projects and so on. What do you think a plan for development is if not a survey – poll – a way to see the future?

  28. overseasbajanyankee Avatar
    overseasbajanyankee

    @AC

    u really on the ball, it is clear that peter can fool some people, in the final analysis it is a science all of us who would have been exposed to that discipline knows it more science, but we seem to think that peter is this expert and take what he says as gospel. I believe that he would have been exposed to the same theories and methodologies as us. I say no more on this topic,

    By the way I was hoping for the yes to have their way,but it was not to be.

    Ac I am trying to remember the topic that Irene sandiford garner took prodical to task, can u remember the subject of the blog. By the way will be in bim shortly to make some investment, have to help the economy.


  29. @Pacha

    We have focused our argument around political polls and you have generalize some what. We conceded that by using the accepted research methodology there must be the use of science in generating analysis/conclusions etc. Where we deffered was in fashioning the intrument which relies on art. We also contend that political polling in in its relative infancy and is likely to fail when applied to complex political scenarios OR where there is a scenario like the last general election where there was narrow margin read 4600 votes separated the BLP and DLP. This is the recap and it is what we believe. Never disputed science is involved in the process.


  30. @overseas bajan

    here
    Concessions Promised to Tourism Sector Will be Delivered Nice and Slow


  31. first of all David the word art can be described as a craft,,,,which in this case a more applicable and plausible definition is required from us,here in this context your are using the word “art ” as an escape mechanism and applying its use as a functioning apparatus, the word art when applied to polling is neutralized by a set of designed and well organized scientific standards conducive to polling.


  32. @ David
    We have no desire to belabor the point. There is no difference between a methodology that relies on art and one which relies on science. Put it this way, you must first learn the science. When one becomes proficient at the science the practitioner becomes an artist thereby wedding science to art. At this stage neither they can exist without each other!

    All elections in Barbados have relatively narrow margins. Meaning, 3 or 4 thousand votes one way or the other, in critical constituencies, can deliver a landslide to one or other political party. That the last election was relatively closer only increases the probability that polls taken days or weeks earlier are more likely to be unrepresentative of a constantly shifting public sentiment. This is expected and Wickham or no other pollster can control these events.

    Your assumptions about the infancy of polling are not well founded. We have dealt with the close poll above.


  33. David
    PS, Polling goes back to the early 19th century. Around the 1820’s.

  34. overseasbajanyankee Avatar
    overseasbajanyankee

    @David

    you are out of your league on this top and therefore you should give in not to belabor the discussion.


  35. Pachamama | September 20, 2014 at 9:57 PM |
    RE you must first learn the science. When one becomes proficient at the science the practitioner becomes an artist thereby wedding science to art. At this stage neither they can exist without each other!

    WELL PUT SIR!

    ONCE YOU HAVE LEARNED THE SCIENCE OR METHODOLOGY OR TECHNIQUES YOU CAN APPLY THESE AS AN ARTISTS


  36. Georgie Porgie

    Spoke of using medication in his individual way to address a specific problem. Many medications are given on the basis of the Five-Rights coupled with the Doctor’s Orders with must coinsided with federal and state guidelines, which governs the distribution, administration and destruction of medication. Most doctors in the US know very little about medication ( sound surprising doesn’t it?) and therefore, if one has a problem with a specific medication, its best to call the pharmacy rather than doctor. Some medications can be used to treat two problems, for example, Tegretol is primarily use to treat seizure disorders, but it can also be used to treated bipolar disorder. But a doctor has to specifiy in the Doctor’s Orders which condition he is prescribing it for. Lithium is generally used to treat bipolar disorder and rather than Tegretol in the US.


  37. Amused | September 20, 2014 at 3:00 AM |

    Amused, all well and good but unlike Wickham and Pachamama you are nowhere on record as taken a side before the results were known. But now that you have what you think is perfect knowledge you feel competent to recommit to pound and crown. You are the quinessential monarchist! And as long as people of your ilk exist we are forever in real trouble.


  38. @ Amused
    What is this irrational reliance on the Bush and Blaire Corporation all about? Our senses told us that this BBC was as bias as a three dollar bill! We have not listened or watched to them in several decades. Maybe that is an indicated of the gulf between us.


  39. However how does Wickham one of the vocal and outspoken voices for privatisation takes a position against independance


  40. On science and art

    Sure an artist must learn the techniques of painting; the poet of metre, rhyme, alliteration and the rest; the pianist scales, notes; the sculptor the nature of stone. But then what?

    Sure the scientist begins with a hypothesis, and gathers samples, conducts experiments, determines whether there’s ‘enough’, reaches some kind of conclusion however contingent or defeasible. But then what?

    Surely in both cases there is then a leap…in seeing, even through the darkened glass, how this is like that and what that means for the other. In other words, there are, in both cases, elements of awe, wonder, mystery, seeing ‘beyond’, analogical reasoning which ex hypothesi is creative, elements to be found once you set sail into an uncharted sea. The outcome is as much a product of the heart as the mind and certainly far, far more than the mere ability to count.

    To take one example: didn’t Einstein conceive relativity in “sorts of clouds”?

    And what of the ‘falling apple’…how was it like a shooting star?

    On the BBC

    The BBC is generally reckoned to be left of centre. The idea pushed in the ‘raving loony’ blogs, which Pacha clearly reads – as I’ve now discovered researching referendum fraud – and then spews out, that it is somehow a government puppet is total nonsense. As nonsensical as it is for a Russian official to tell the world how you should conduct a fair referendum.


  41. Bullen Robert Ross
    Why de fu*k you dont leave us alone nuh? You wash your back poookey yet this morning. You could only be a Brassbowl to think that a government sponsored news channel could be left of centre when consvervatives rule. When it was in the interests of these rulers for the “No’ to win. The BBC could be only characterized as ‘left of centre’ if you are a rabid conservative, for they themselves don’t recognize that. More fundamentally…………………


  42. Pacha…I am afraid – no, that’s too kind – I assert that you are complete fool, an ignorant one at that, and that it’s time for you to get a grip. Start by removing your head from the sewer.

    I will say this however. It is totally clear to me that you gather your garbage from the hate-filled internet dustbins of the world. You are not an original thinker – though simply mad as I’d supposed – but a mere copyist. Now go talk to Mamma about it.


  43. Pachamama | September 21, 2014 at 12:05 PM |
    Bullen Robert Ross
    Why de fu*k you dont leave us alone nuh? You wash your back poookey yet this morning.
    ………………………………………………………………………
    Why don’t you arrange a date with RR, and settle this ‘shit” between the two of you.

The blogmaster invites you to join the discussion.

Trending

Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading