The POPE and the CHURCH

Pope Francis

Pope Francis

Can we get the Pope and the Church to embrace the righteousness of REPARATIONS, or is it asking too much to get them to stop covering up and shielding the owners of SLAVERY-INHERITED WEALTH?

See article from The Black List

46 thoughts on “The POPE and the CHURCH


    • Christmas & White Supremacy/Capitalism/Consumerism

      Posted by Nana Baakan on December 7, 2013 at 4:30pm
      Is it just me? How is it that having a European looking man, with blonde hair and blue eyes, from the middle east elevated to the status of God, is NOT promoting white supremacy?
      For the next 30 days folks will be peppering their house, lawns, schools and churches and every where else with the image of a “white” child in a manger purported to be GOD incarnate. A so-called Christmas celebration that really is a cloak for white supremacy.
      Think about it, from now on it will be quite alright for Jesus to be depicted as White! All over the world from the deepest jungles to the highest skyscraper, Jesus will not represent every racial group or ethnicity, he, his parents and most of everyone around down to the angels will all be white. What a mind f***ck that must be for every body! They get to promote White Supremacy unabashed and take your money in the process. People keep saying folks are waking up, but this time of year makes me wonder on the real.
      What do I suggest?
      http://theblacklistpub.ning.com/profiles/blog/show?id=2055350%3ABlogPost%3A178317&xgs=1&xg_source=msg_share_post


  1. Did you know that one of the Caribbean’s most prominent politicians was the descendant of slave traders?

    In fact, he wrote a book (one of the few who was competent enough to do so) on the topic of slavery … he called it Capitalism and Slavery.

    It is claimed his ancestors (de Boissiere’s) made their money in the Slave Trade after it had become illegal.


  2. POPE FRANCIS has open new dialogue within the church a man who has not shy away from controversial issues, most of what he says has shown a person of a compassionate spirit not be surprised if and when he gives his views on reparations those to be in line exuding the same compassion and authority for doing right for those who have been wronged,


    • The Catholic Church has no choice but to concede its fundamentalist and medieval positions. Pope Francis, like Obama, has bee selected to make the adjustment.


  3. BTW, the RC church has been in the inherited wealth business for two millennia!!

    It is probably richer than most countries.

    Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are small fry.

    It probably also benefitted from the slave trade, both the Trans Saharan and Trans Atlantic, (its been around that long) and that’s probably one of the reasons why Pope John Paul apologized.

    You may also find that when its budget is analysed, there will be plenty spent on humanitarian and developmental activities in Africa and the Caribbean.

    I reckon more of that expenditure reaches grass roots people than would reach them if the money was spent with politicians under the heading reparations.

    Reparations is political rubbish.


  4. Reparations it has such a nice ring to it, rather than …gimme… you owe me ….I want ….or my favorite…it is only fair. Now I am not adverse to your people getting something but I was thinking more in the lines of a job


  5. Issue for thought and discussion: Was Mandela wrong not to demand reparations from the South African state after years of segregated education, facilities and opportunities [not even purported to be “separate but equal”] for blacks?


  6. BAFBFP | December 8, 2013 at 8:18 AM |
    Thanks for the funny.
    Always a pleasure to listen to any/every piece of Handel’s Messiah Grew up listening to it in my home.
    It is always fun to read opinions on BU about the “church”?
    It is quite clear that none of you have studied Church History or understand the BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE of the “church”


  7. Georgie P

    Would you kindly explain what it is about church history ‘we’ should have studied and what the “biblical perspective on the church” is.

    David

    The ‘white’ Jesus thing is an old scent and I am surprised that these days anyone would seek to talk about ‘white supremacy’ in those terms. But I suppose it’s good for business.


  8. robert ross
    how do you define church?
    when did the church come into existence?
    what is the purpose of the church?
    how did the roman church come into being?
    can it be considered a true church according to what the NT teaches about the church?
    These are some issues that you can probably look into.
    I wont be wasting my time here trying to teach theology any more- it just does not make sense.
    I will just make brief comments when I am bored


    • @GP

      Where is the ideal place forum to comment?

      In a Church to the perceived converted?

      How do you presume who will be impacted by your comments posted on the Internet?


  9. LOL @ David
    …you play that you ain’t know that the last time that GP came with his theology sessions he and his sidekick Zoe got bushwhacked into “compliance with actuality” ….. LOL
    ..you think GP born this century nuh…?!?


    • @ Bushie

      You really need to stop. You and Techie chase away Dictionary, Zoe has finally faded and GP has stated his scorn at the thought of commenting about technology on BU. One would never guess you guys are on the same side, i.e. believe in God. Whither the BU religious triumvirate?}


  10. this may appeal to a religious vet, one of the cargo faiths, You could worship john frum as in Vanuatu, he can be either white or black.Instead of trying to hijack my religion. Remember the pope was a bouncer before …he may have to open a can of whoop ass if this keeps up.


  11. 1. David | December 8, 2013 at 1:12 PM |
    @GP
    Re Where is the ideal place forum to comment? In a Church to the perceived converted?
    In a good Bible teaching church, no one wastes time discussing or mentioning the Pope. A good Bible teaching church seeks to properly “divide the word of truth”.Once that is taught, the REAL CHURCH THAT JESUS ORIGINATED PREVAILS.
    Re How do you presume who will be impacted by your comments posted on the Internet?
    I have reached the stage where I don’t really care to make the effort.
    Bush Tea | December 8, 2013 at 1:22 PM |
    LOL @ David
    …you play that you ain’t know that the last time that GP came with his theology sessions he and his sidekick Zoe got bushwhacked into “compliance with actuality” ….. LOL
    ..you think GP born this century nuh…?!?
    EXACTLY BT. WHY WASTE THE TIME TRYING TO CORRECT YOU.

    David | December 8, 2013 at 1:49 PM |
    @ Bushie
    You really need to stop. You and Techie chase away Dictionary,
    IT WAS ALWAYS NOTEWORTHY THAT ALL TECHNICIAN EVER DID WAS SCOFF AT WHAT HE CALLED the BU triumvirate, BUT HAD NOTHING TO ADD.
    DICTIONARY IS PERHAPS THE BEST I HAVE READ/MET WHO COULD ARTICULATE RELIGIOUS AND BIBLICAL CHURCH HISTORY, MATHS AND SCIENCE AND RELATE TO THE TEACHING OF THE WORD OF GOD. HE BROUGHT A HIGH LEVEL OF BIBLICAL SCOLARSHIP TO BU
    RE Zoe has finally faded
    WHO CAN BLAME HIM. ONE MAY NOT LIKE HIS STYLE, BUT THE MAN HAS A DOCTORATE IN THEOLOGY FROM SOME PROPER SCHOOL AND HAS ALWAYS RIGHTLY DIVIDED THE WORD OF GOD AND BROUGHT PROPER EXEGESIS TO BU’S PAGES
    RE One would never guess you guys are on the same side, i.e. believe in God.
    I DOUBT THIS VERY MUCH DAVID
    Whither the BU religious triumvirate? MANY ON BU WOULD SAY WE ARE NOT NEEDED HERE. BETTER TO GO WHERE YOU CAN HELP A BIT, AND WHERE FOLK WANT TO LEARN AND DON’T THINK THEY KNOW IT ALL


  12. Wait, why pick on the RC church? When the slave trade was in full bore, the Anglican Church had more involvement at both ends on the Atlantic that the RC did.

    And someone mentioned Mandela, the most important think I learned from him is to forgive and forget, move on and include past enemies in the future. Looking back and bringing all the rage and revenge behaviors with us is poison,


  13. Mmmmm….oh I see. THAT is theology. I now see why I missed it.

    But GP, PLEASE don’t be angry. Come and sit by me….. We can make faces at David from the blue corner till he’s red in the face. Who needs him anyway? PS…tell Zoe to come back. I, for one, miss him.


  14. Robert
    I am not angry at all, and I have no problem with David.
    But the shutting down and running away of the biblical scholarship from BU of Dictionary and Zoe, is a characteristic thing in Barbados.

    We just knighted a so called cardiologist in Bim. Do you know how many BAJAN BOARD CERTIFIED CARDIOLOGISTS HE RAN FROM BARBADOS IN HIS TIME?
    Do you know how MANY HE REFUSED TO RECOMMEND FOR THEM TO GO OVERSEAS TO STUDY CARDIOLOGY?

    SAME WITH THE LATE SIR BERTIE GRAHAM

    AS THEY SAY WHO THE DOG LIKE HE LICK
    WHO HE DONT LIKE HE KICK OR PISS PUN


  15. GP

    This ‘running’ thing. I think you’ve got a point really and, yes, of what I know of the heart people they are a pretty mean bunch. Thirteen years ago or so, was it, there was a brilliant African fella (Moraria???? or similar) and then the nice Jamaican. Neither lasted. I wonder how the new one will make out – a thorough and dear person whose role in ‘An Ideal Husband’ I once played twice if you know the Wilde plays. And, yes, the kind of nastiness you mention is to be found everywhere in this Pharisaical nation of ours.


  16. ROBERT
    MY FATHER TAUGHT ME ” IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE A GARBAGE COLLECTOR, BE THE BEST!

    THAT DOES NOT WORK IN BIM
    IF YOU ARE GOOD YOU ARE A TARGET

    AFTER A WHILE YOU JUST GIVE UP


  17. David why would anyone stay in Barbados an tek licks when he can go overseas like GP and be respected for his ability?


  18. GP is 100% CORRECT!

    Guys like GP with a GIANT “S” on his chest under a white lab coat does not exactly inspire or encourage mediocrity!

    But all God’s children get weary!


  19. David | December 8, 2013 at 4:24 PM |
    RE But GP if you are good you can’t be resigned to giving up.
    TRUST ME DAVID, I CAN AND I HAVE

    Hants | December 8, 2013 at 4:30 PM |
    David why would anyone stay in Barbados an tek licks when he can go overseas like GP and be respected for his ability?
    I WISH YOU WERE CORRECT HANTS BUT I HAVE BEEN SEEN TO BE A THREAT AND GENERALLY HATED IN THE INDUSTRY FOR EXPOSING POOR STANDARDS SUCH AS PASSING MEDICAL STUDENTS WHO FAIL THEIR EXAMS CONSISTENTLY INTER ALIA

    David | December 8, 2013 at 4:34 PM |
    @Hants
    One reason is to be a catalyst for change by demonstrating leadership?
    YOU GET FIRED FOR THAT IN OFFSHORE MED SCHOOLS. THEY CARE ONLY ABOUT THE STATUS QUO WHICH ENTAILS MAKING MONEY AND NOT SCHOLARSHIP
    IN THE ONLINE SCHOOL AT WHICH I TEACH, THEY LET THE STUDENTS DO AS THEY WISH, INCLUDING CURSING YOU IF YOU DON’T GIVE THEM A’S

    ANON | December 8, 2013 at 4:47 PM |
    YOU ARE ALSO 100% CORRECT!
    I DON’T inspire or encourage mediocrity! AND IT IS INDEED TRUE THAT all God’s children get weary!


  20. ROSS
    Here is a little about what the NT says about the CHURCH.
    The concept of the CHURCH is a NT doctrine; the CHURCH is never mentioned in the OT.
    Also the NT emphasizes the concept of the LOCAL CHURCH; which is essentially the unit or squadron of the universal army of the church. The NT gives the regulations for what the church should believe and practice etc
    If you put the verses in the NT together you will discover a LOCAL CHURCH is an assemblage of baptized [by immersion] believers.


  21. David
    NT DOES NOT TEACH THAT YOU KNOW
    HOWEVER, IT TEACHES THAT WE ARE NOT TO FORSAKE THE ASSEMBLY OF OURSELVES TOGETHER HEBREWS 10:25
    Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
    THE REAL PURPOSE OF GOING TO CHURCH IS TO ENCOURAGE FELLOW BELIEVERS AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE TEXT ABOVE


    • @GP

      But what if a person chooses not to encourage in the form of an assembly. What does it bode for the ‘believer’?


  22. DAVID
    FROM MY EXPERIENCE
    THE BEST OF TRUE BELIEVERS TEND TO ASSEMBLE IN THE BIBLICAL SENSE AND THEY TEND TO ENCOURAGE.

    MANY BELIEVERS ARE POOR IN ENCOURAGING OTHERS


  23. Nelson Mandela – A Project of the Papacy!

    Thesis, Antithesis (Enslave you, then liberate you)

    The Papacy (CATHOLIC CHURCH) Wants To Give Africans “Another Savior”, a mere man – when Scripture teaches that Jesus Christ is your Savior and Liberator!

    Mandela was a member of the Vatican’s Order of the St. John.

    The Order of St. John is a “Protestant arm” of the Knights of Malta. Both are controlled by the Vatican.

    VATICAN CITY (AP) — “The Knights of Malta, one of the most peculiar organizations in the world, marked its 900th birthday Saturday with a colorful procession through St. Peter’s Square, a Mass in the basilica and an audience with Pope Benedict XVI, himself a member of the onetime chivalrous order drawn from Europe’s nobility.

    The Knights are at once a Roman Catholic religious order, an aid group that runs soup kitchens, hospitals and ambulance services around the globe, and a sovereign entity that prints its own passports and enjoys diplomatic relations with 104 countries — yet has no country to call its own.

    Some 4,000 people — volunteers in neon orange civil protection suits, children in red berets and members each draped in a black cloak with a white, eight-pointed Maltese Cross on the front — processed through St. Peter’s Square and into the basilica for the Mass marking the 900th anniversary of the order’s recognition by the Holy See.

    After the Mass, which was celebrated by the Vatican No. 2, Benedict came to the basilica for an audience during which he thanked the order for its service and urged it to continue providing health care for the world’s neediest while staying true to its Christian ideals.

    The order’s work, he said, ‘‘is not mere philanthropy but an effective expression and a living testimony of evangelical love.’’

    The order traces its history to an 11th century infirmary in Jerusalem set up by a monk to care for pilgrims visiting the Holy Land. During the Crusades, as the order’s humanitarian efforts spread, it took on a military role to protect pilgrims and Christendom as a whole from Muslim attacks. In February 1113 Pope Paschal II recognized the order with a papal bull establishing its sovereign status by saying it was independent of both lay and other religious authorities.

    During its heyday, would-be members had to prove nobility through all eight great-grandparents. Such requirements are now largely relaxed except in some European countries. Still, the order’s members are drawn from some of the world’s wealthiest Catholics, who fund its health clinics, homeless shelters and old folks’ homes in 120 countries and rally for special appeals when disasters strike.

    Sixty of the 13,500 members are so-called ‘‘professed knights,’’ who make vows of poverty, chastity and obedience and live like monks, albeit without being ordained priests.

    The order’s international legal status is entirely unique, a sovereign entity that prints its own stamps, coins, license plates and passports, yet has no territory over which it rules. Its forces once occupied Cyprus, Rhodes and Malta, but Napoleon expelled the order from Malta in 1798, depriving it of the final patch of land over which it ruled.

    Nevertheless, the order still enjoys many of the trappings of a small country: U.N. observer status and diplomatic relations with 104 countries, most of them in the developing world where such ties can smooth the delivery of humanitarian aid. But the United States, for one, has no relations, precisely because it’s a stateless state.

    In his speech Saturday, Benedict affirmed the sovereign status that the order enjoys. He acknowledged its peculiar nature, saying the order’s guiding spirit ‘‘aims not to exercise power and influence of a worldly character, but in complete freedom to accomplish its own mission for the integral good of man, spirit and body … with special regard for those whose need of hope and love is greater.’’

    Nelson Mandela and the Duke of Gloucester, at the Knights and Dames Investiture on November 23, 2004, at St James’s Palace, when the Duke invested Mr. Mandela as a Bailiff Grand Cross of the Order of St. John.

    The Maltese cross is a common feature of the Pope’s garments, reminding us that he is the head of these Orders.

    A Protestant branch of the Knights of Malta is the Order of St. John of Jerusalem. Queen Elizabeth II is the Sovereign Head of the Order of St. John,iii as we can see from her costume in the photograph.

    The Queen’s participation in this Order, which brings with it required obedience to the Pope, is an example of how King John’s ancient concession of the crown to the Papacy is still in effect today.

    The Roman Catholic Church uses military-like orders or societies to carry out their aims and protect the Church. Using these societies as a secret army to do the Church’s bidding protects it from scrutiny and bad press. For example, in the Middle Ages, the Knights Templar was an order that fought in the crusades on behalf of the Papacy. Templar Knights were given the ability to ignore many laws, taxes, and authorities, but had to obey the Pope.

    Note: Queen Elizabeth is the Sovereign Head of the Order of St. John, a Protestant arm of the Knights of Malta.


  24. HISTORICAL SNIPPET OF THE ORDER OF ST. JOHN

    “The Order of St. John [Ed. Note: which later became the Knights of Malta] was founded before the taking of Jerusalem in 1099 by the armies of the First Crusade [Ed. Note: by Roman Catholic Crusaders, and in accordance with the proclamation calling for ‘Holy Crusade’ by Pope Urban II]. It began as a monastic community dedicated to St. John the Baptist, which administered a hospice-infirmary for pilgrims to the Holy Land. Originally connected with the Benedictines, it became, under Blessed Gerard (1120), an independent organization. By the [papal] Bull of 15 February 1113, addressed to Gerard, Pope Pascal II approved the confraternity of the Hospital of St. John, placed it under the protection of the Holy See, and ensured its right of freely electing its heads…without any interference from other ecclesiastical or any lay authority. In virtue of this [papal] Bull and of subsequent Papal acts, the Hospital became an exempt Order of the [Roman Catholic] Church.


  25. Vatican Bank Scandal — JP Morgan, HSBC Cease Doing Business with Vatican by Sonya Sandage – December 8, 2013

    An 11-month Financial Times investigation reveals mismanagement at Vatican Bank

    Many do not realize that the Vatican manages a banking empire with approximately $7 Billion in assets.

    On June 28th, a Vatican cleric, along with a former Secret Service agent, and a financial broker were all arrested by Italian police and charged with fraud and corruption. The three were suspected of smuggling $24 Million by private plane across the border from Switzerland.

    Prosecutors allege that the the Vatican cleric who is a former banker, was using the Institute of Religious Works (The formal name for the Vatican Bank) to transport money for Naples businessmen. In Italy, Naples is considered the base for organized crime. The arrested Vatican cleric was also the head of accounting at the Treasury of the Vatican (Administration of the Patrimony of the Holy See.)

    This is another shock to Italy following upheaval of Pope Benedict XVI’s resignation in February, the first time in 700 years a pope has resigned. The scandal gave the Bank of Italy under Mario Draghi as well as BIS in Brussels the impetus it needed to start investigations and potential regulatory changes at the Vatican Bank.

    Cardinals elect new pope

    DAMAGE CONTROL

    In July, Peter Sutherland, a non-executive chair at Goldman Sachs International, and the former Attorney General of Ireland, flew to the Vatican. He is a practicing Catholic and unpaid consultant to the Vatican’s Treasury, and was invited by reformers inside the Church to speak to the Council of Cardinals, the most senior advisors to the Pope. He did not give a public statement, but two who were aware of the closed door proceedings indicate he advised the Council, “Transparency is necessary.”

    Regulators have already been eager to get into the Vatican before the arrests. “We cannot have any more scandal. It is so shameful,” a senior member of the Vatican’s financial administration said.

    Financial Times interviewed two dozen bankers, lawyers, regulators, and Vatican insiders over 11 months to understand how the Vatican Bank has unnerved bankers, regulators, and governments across Europe and the U.S. The reforms inside Vatican Bank now underway are due to pressure from banks like Deutsche Bank, JP Morgan, HSBC, and UniCredit, all who have found themselves as targets of regulators due to their business relationship with the Holy See.

    REGULATORY NIGHTMARE, BANKING STANDARDS NOT MET

    About 32 of the world’s largest financial institutions were “correspondent” banks for the Vatican. They moved about $3 Billion per year from the Vatican Bank to other banks around the globe, allowing the Church to conduct international business. The banks became so fearful of being tarnished by the Vatican that some have even closed down their accounts for the Embassies of the Vatican. HSBC did cease doing business with the Embassy of the Vatican, and other large banks are considering the same. Regulations and oversight around diplomatic bank accounts and PEP’s (politically exposed persons) has become crushing to the banks, and they no longer seek out these customers. Banks have tremendous surveillance around account owned by those who work high up in any government, especially embassy accounts. It is a large cost and risk to the banks, and they loathe doing business with these customers.

    In March 2012, JP Morgan closed the bank accounts it held for the Vatican because the documentation provided was not thorough. Vatican was asking JPM to move money all around the world for it via wire transfers but the basic Know Your Customer data could not be obtained. When JPM would say, “we need to answer to the regulators on these wire transactions” the Vatican Bank would push back and say, “We answer to God,” according to a bank manager at a large European bank.

    MONEY FUNNELED TO EFFECT POLITICAL CHANGES, EVADE TAXES

    Many bankers, lawyers, and those in business with the Vatican Bank would not speak on record but they did say the Vatican Bank operates unlike any other bank they’ve dealt with. The staff of only 12 were not versed in Due Diligence or KYC (Know Your Customer) standards. There was very little documentation on their cash flows and balances of approximately 19,000 clients. There are 33,000 accounts held
    at the Vatican Bank. 50% of clients come from religious orders, 15% are from Holy See institutions, 13% are Cardinals, Bishops, and clergy, 9% are from dioceses around the world. The rest have some affiliation with the Catholic Church. The Vatican Bank doesn’t have many loans, the books contain mostly deposits, wire transfers, and investments.

    Many of the deposits are donations and cash tithe. 25% of the bank’s business is done in cash. Laura Pedio, a Milan ani-Mafia prosecutor who specializes in white collar crime, was willing to speak on the record to Financial Times. In her previous cases she found a complex system of proxies, with transaction authorization given to the third parties on behalf of unidentified account holders. The proxy holders had no details
    recorded at the bank. Some of the proxies could only be verbally recognized by a few people at the Vatican Bank. She said there was no way to get answers on who these people were, or who was the final beneficiary of the account.

    One advisor to the Vatican says the new clampdown by regulators has caused the correspondent banks to toss aside the Vatican and stop doing business with them. “There is a no nonsense approach from the correspondent banks,” the advisor said in an interview. “We are not here to cover the ass of the Vatican.”

    The most infamous story so far around the Vatican Bank was their relationship withe a large Italian bank that collapsed. The Vatican Bank was the single largest shareholder in Banco Ambrosiano. After that bank collapsed, it’s chairman was found hanged under London’s Blackfriar’s Bridge. Prosecutors in Rome conclude the bank chairman was killed by the Sicilian Mafia but no charges were brought up against an individual. There have been rumors that the Vatican is a large shareholder of Bank of America but this has not been substantiated.

    Mafia victim & bank chairman: Roberto Calvi

    Another question is how the Vatican may funnel money into political actions. Pope John Paul II is said to have used the Vatican Bank to channel money to Poland’s Solidarity Movement. Questions arise as to is and how the Vatican may be swaying elections or effecting political change worldwide. Regulators have been cracking down on tax cheats in offshore havens like Switzerland.

    FIRST POPE IN 700 YEARS RESIGNED IN FEBRUARY, NEW POPE WITH MAMMOTH PROBLEMS TO FIX

    As of March 2013 their new Pope, who is a Jesuit evoking poverty and humility, set a new tone on financial correctness. The new Pope spoke out against the idolatry of money, “all-compassing corruption,” and “Tax evasion that had reached global dimensions.” The new Pope moved his personal residence away from the Apostolic Palace and the Vatican Bank.

    The new Pope has issued papal decrees to help speed inspections and make changes to produce real reform in the legal and institutional framework of their banking system.


  26. George Porgle, I would not necessarily concluded that the real purpose of going church is to encourage fellow believers. Even though it constitutes a crucial part of our Christian faith, but by stating such an interpretation you’re in essence taking the focus off of God, and placing in upon the believer. God is and ought to be the central figure in the Christian religion, and those who do not understand this concept ought and must study their Bible with a pensive contemplation.


  27. MARK FENTY
    you can conclude what you wish
    the proof text I quoted on the subject from Hebrews clearly states that believers ought to go to assembly meetings and encourage one another

    can you support the waffle you wrote by adequate scripture references as theologians do?

    the other important scripture on this subject for you to learn is acts 2 :42……And they continued stedfastly in
    the apostles’ doctrine
    and fellowship,
    and in breaking of bread,
    and in prayers.

    in doing these believers are encouraged!

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