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Barbados Underground (BU) welcomes the Barbados Today report about the George Payne v Edmund Hinkson: Storm Clouds Hovering Over MAM court matter even though it has come several days after we posted. The fact that Roy Morris (Chief Editor) and shareholders in the Barbados Today have chosen to expose one side; that of the plaintiff, and not the defendant is evidence of the stain which the traditional media continues to blot the media landscape of Barbados. BU is aware how matters before the Courts must be treated in the public domain. Given its public profile a media house can easily be joined by either side to a matter like this one. What it does not mean however is that ALL the facts should not be reported. In this case why not ensure that the Statement of Defence (SOD) is included in the report?

BU continues to find this matter intriguing but not for the reasons  political yardfowls on either side will show glee. There are the political ramifications of the court action by Payne for the Barbados Labour Party (BLP). Also, it gives BU the opportunity to explore a related issue associated with libel and slander which are now interchangeably referred to as defamation under the Act.

As we understand it, when we had the legal difference in Barbados between libel (written) and slander (spoken) libel was always actionable without proof of damage. On the other hand with slander one had to prove damage except in a few instances, one of which was imputing criminal offense.  As far as BU is concerned the Payne v Hinkson matter falls into the category of slander actionable. Based on the Barbados Today report it is also alleged that the allegations were published which brings libel into play (no details available).  The legal people will see this as a moot point because the distinction between libel and slander have been removed in the Defamation Act.

Why are we making a big deal of the distinction?

In cases where damages were awarded based on slander the quantum of the damages was dependent on the number of persons who became party to the slanderous statement.  Invariably the awards were quite small. Libel to compare is published and obviously reaches many people which has the greater potential for larger awards. The legal eagles would described libel as something to be viewed as perpetual in this context.

A critique of the Defamation Act may force some interested spectators to ask the eminent jurist Sir David Simmons, who had oversight at the time, why craft the legislation that would ‘limit’ pay outs by media houses if libel was eventually proved?

The political dimension to this matter is equally as intriguing.

If Alair Sheperd QC was man enough to apologize for skinning his botsy at a female Judge, why not newbie Edmund Hinkson as a member of a BLP party looking to chart a new path behind the second coming of MAM?  Seem simple enough a matter to arbitrate, after all these are public figures who represent our government in waiting.

Obviously there is some political strategy playing out deep in the bowels of the Barbados Labour Party which will make for interesting theatre in the weeks to come. Has Hinkson agreed to be the rabbit to force Arthur’s hand much sooner than planned? As Payne sued to counter the Hinkson move? Has MAM decided once and for all to facilitate the bloodletting at this early stage to accrue time later for healing to take place?  If the Hinkson move has forced Payne to move sooner than plan it may mean MAM has the upper hand or has she? What will be the response to Hinkson’s behaviour? How influential are the elders in the BLP party? Will MAM be blamed given her legacy as leader to date? Will the hammer fall on the man of many hats whose legacy in parliament is likely to be recorded in invisible ink?  What about Payne’s sidekick Dale Marshall and Sutherland who appears to be someone being mentored by Payne. Is there an opportunity for the crossing of the floor?

Bottomline, whether Payne or Hinkson wins there is heavy collateral damage which the BLP Battleship is likely to take on. Will MAM call it quits? Will another  leader emerge? Why are we not discussing these issues given the importance of a strong Opposition in our system of government? We all saw what a decimated Opposition caused by the ruckus between Mascoll and Thompson did to the Democratic Labour Party. At a time when BU and others have been asking the political parties to foster a esprit de corps we have this BS.

We look forward to the Hinkson view filed on this matter.

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  1. @Adrian

    You submitted your comment via the feedback box. Feel free to repost in the comments box.

  2. Adrian Hinds Avatar

    Politics continues uh changin’ in buhbados and I like it. 🙂 I applaud Hinckson for his courage to stand up to persons who wear the title of “senior this” and ‘senior that” and who may not be deserving of the privileges the title carries. However, unlike Hinkson I would have cuss Payne with impunity, to do otherwise — as is alleged in the complaint — is to give him something to latch unto in an effort to save face rather than to be made to walk away embarrass with head held in shame.


  3. Its normally the DLP that airs their dirty linen in public. Wuh gine on in the BLP these days. Hinkson’s actions could be described as very brave or very foolish. I personally applauded him for standing up to those goriliphants in the BLP that dragging down the name of the party. I just flashing back to that pic with the opposition sitting together, lol, who knew something like that went down.

  4. St George's Dragon Avatar
    St George’s Dragon

    So what is the fraud that George Payne is accused of?


  5. I read the quotes in BarbadosToday. George Payne had no choice but to sue for defamation.

    While the politicos may try to profit from this matter I believe it was an outburst fueled by emotion.

    The problems in the BLP are the same as they were from the time Owen made the statement about Mia’s acceptance as a leader.

    Owen is once again writing memoires and gardening. Can we expect another critique of Mia?

    let this lawsuit takes its natural course. The BLP must focus on doing what they were elected to do. Oppose.

  6. DLP (formerly CBC) TV Avatar
    DLP (formerly CBC) TV

    Edmund got some balls disrespecting both George and Ronald. We got our opinions on George but he must be afforded respect, after all he did win the seat multiple times beating the DLP candidate and Edmund now come. I can also ask Edmund are there not people in the DLP that are there long ain’t do nutting and are “crooks and criminals”?!!! Ain’t nothing wrong with enthusiasm but you still got to know time or place and who to focus on. i understand George’s position. Mia might be new as leader and might not want to hurt nobody feelings but she got to flex muscles. Tell Edmund to apologize and then tell George to forget the lawsuit .


  7. Is it unreasonable to think that after the tumultuous meeting at Roebuck Street to select an opposition leader that there would have been efforts to engage in dispute resolution effort? The fact that the matter has reached this stage what does it mean?


  8. @David
    The fact that Roy Morris (Chief Editor) and shareholders in the Barbados Today have chosen to expose one side; that of the plaintiff, and not the defendant is evidence of the stain which the traditional media continues to blot the media landscape of Barbados
    *************

    Don’t rush the brush….unless you know something that we don’t i.e. a Statement of Defense has been filed and BT ignored it completely.
    It will be interesting to see how this plays out but judging from Payne’s statement and with Hinkson allegations now in the public domain I don’t see how the action can be curtailed unless someone makes a complete and unreserved apology.

    This bad blood between the two seems to have its genesis in the fight for Eastmond’s seat where the Payne backed candidate lost to Hinkson, but Hinkson having won should be magnanimous in victory and let bygones be bygones since they are from the same party and fighting against the same political foe.

    As this issue proceeds Mia and the BLP will be more focused on damage control that carrying the fight to the DLP which depending on one’s political persuasion is either good or bad for the country……


  9. @Sargeant

    Perhaps you are being naive and unifocussed in view? MAM when she had her much publicised issue with the party indicated the constitution needed to be amended. The party needed to democratise. During this period Payne was Chairman of the Party. This matter appears to be more than a quarrel between Payne and Hinkson.


  10. The fact that the matter has reached this stage what does it mean?

    This matter appears to be more than a quarrel between Payne and Hinkson.

    David clearly Hinkson had a visceral anger building up and exploded.


  11. @Hants

    Maybe so but what is the root cause of the anger? Is said anger supported by evidence? Is Hinkson in a good place to challenge the ‘club’?


  12. Expect that cooler heads will prevail and the strategists and spin doctors will try to stop the lawsuit.

    Most reasonable people would believe Hinkson was telling the truth based on certain knowledge.That is what is expected from a Lawyer and MP who is supposed to be Mr.Clean.

    But this is Barbados and with the current backlog the case may take 11 years to get to court.lol


  13. BT editor Roy morris is an interesting player in the Payne/ Hinckson blowout. If memory serves it was a letter from Minister Payne to Morris with threats to his family which caused Owen to fire Payne from the cabinet with immediate effect. A weeping Payne in the embrace of his perennial escort Dale Marshall was finally cornered and photgraphed by the media after he hid from sight for days after Owen fired him. He refused to answer questions on why he was fired.

    Payne and Morris took different paths after that defining moment . Payne became silent in Parliament as a backbencher literally wasting taxpayers monies for years. Morris went on to be accused on more than one occasion of troubling young girls. He was arrested and charged but in typical Bajan court fashion no one seems to know what happened with the case. Same thing happened with racist lawyer Mark Goodrige charges.

    One can be sure some big shot crooked lawyer or lawyers were involved in the Morris’ case disappearance. Is it possible Morris was eager and happy to break the Payne/ Hinckson story after all he owed Payne a belly searcher.


  14. @David

    So Mia orchestrates this whole affair so that she could make Hats Payne a political eunuch? Someone should go back to school to study political machinations because it failed spectacularly. There is a saying that a man shouldn’t shit where he eats and Payne can shit wherever the BLP eats. Naïve me may not be good at politicking but I am a keen observer of human behaviour and this looks like some kind of “pay back” from an aggrieved politician who wanted to vent his true feelings to another.

    Constitution? Looks like you reading too many “who dunnit” novels.

  15. David (not BU) Avatar
    David (not BU)

    David, i think you maybe reading to much into this. of course i could be wrong but Hinkson seems to have some kind of chip on his shoulder.

    base on what i read and heard, he disrespected everyone in the room. factor this, he disrespected the chair, Payne, Toppin and Sutherland. then regardless of what we may think of Payne, the man has never been shown to do anything Hinkson said.

    you also have to ask yourself a question, was Hinkson given a chance to right this wrong on what he said?

    Hinkson clearly has strong (foolish) feelings. i say foolish because he should have known as a lawyer not to cross the line he did but maybe, just maybe he could be the smartest man in Barbados, knowing he should not have cross that line. what if he could show what he said about Payne is true?

    in the end, this is above the party. Hinkson vs Payne. BLP, MAM or OSA cant do a damn thing to change that fact. its up to the courts now.


  16. This is the fly stick trap Mia set to break Owen neck.


  17. Meanwhile the poor peformance of the DLP , the worst government ever in the history of governments continue………………..
    No Vision
    Pure Lies
    and the fallout from the last ‘BUY ELECTIONS”


  18. @Hants | May 4, 2013 at 6:13 PM |If that is what Hinckson said, I agree with you. Payne had no option but to sue for defamation.

    @David. I completely agree with you that it was not in the interests of the country to eradicate the distinction between libel and slander. I said at the time that it was misguided and would benefit the Nation newspaper (as opposed to the taxpayers) in that it would likely reduce the quantum of damages the Nation (newspaper) might have to pay out. The relationship between the Nation (newspaper) and the directing mind of the Defamation Act Cap. 199 has not escaped notice and adverse comment.

    For the information/interest of the BU family that defamation CAN be tried by a jury, rather than just a judge and, under section 44 of the Juries Act Cap. 115B, it is down to the judge to make such a decision. Likely not worth my raising this point, given the political issues and public interest involved. I cannot see how a judge could justify referring this particular action to a jury from what would assuredly be a tainted jury pool. But with the jackasses we got pun de bench, you never know.

    @David | May 4, 2013 at 9:00 PM | “The fact that the matter has reached this stage what does it mean?” The CPR protocols required that Payne write to Hinckson setting out the details of the matter complained of and requiring Hinckson to withdraw his remarks and issue an apology in a suitable format, plus any other undertakings required to make Payne whole. It can be safely assumed that Hinckson either: (a) denied making the remarks; or (b) is going to use the defense of truth. As a result, Hinckson would have had to have replied in such a manner that Payne could infer refusal to withdraw the remarks. Then Payne could commence court proceedings.

    @Sargeant | May 4, 2013 at 9:10 PM | You are correct. My information is that no SOD has been filed and served as yet. Once it is, it is public domain we should certainly hold BT (and now, belatedly as usual, the Nation today) to its obligation to report fairly by publishing the contents of the SOD.

    @David. I agree that there must be more going on here than meets the eye. Hinckson is a reasonably experienced attorney-at-law and I find it hard to believe that this was merely a moment of, as Hants put it, “visceral anger.” If the allegations are true and Hinckson did indeed conduct himself in the manner complained of, then he started the cat fight…….and we are perfectly entitled, given the political background, to speculate privately as to why. It doesn’t smell right to me either, my friend.

    @ law student | May 4, 2013 at 10:07 PM | Irrelevant. Gossip. Has nothing to do with the issue. Law students should know better. Doubtless, you will become a High Court judge, God help us.


  19. @ Law Student.
    It would serve you well to avoid such low level comment which shows a total lack of thinking . Displaying such an ability to have your objective thought processes manipulated you are well on the road to becoming just ANOTHER mediocre lawyer . Be warned .


  20. Hinkson after twenty five years must be considered an experienced lawyer, but as a public personality he could use a little more experience. These are two lawyers, why should I give a f#ck ..?!


  21. Perhaps Baffy is right after all. The two political parties failing us. At a time when we should be governing the country to the maximum we have Thompson and Mascoll, Arthur (gang of 5) and Hinkson and Payne. How much has/will it cost the country?


  22. That’s the problem, the government never tells the public how much their neglect and incompetence costs the taxpayers, boasting that government pays it’s debts, but everyone finds out when an international agency goes to the media like in this latest exposure below…………..
    http://www.nationnews.com/articles/view/pay-up-blacklisted-for-not-paying-royalties/


  23. @ David
    You are assuming that, were they to put their heads together, we would be in a better position.
    …you know the problem with assuming.

    Truth is, these guys don’t have the first clue of:
    1 – the challenges that face us
    2 – the fundamental causes of those challenges
    3 – the options available for possible solutions
    4 – how to go about identifying the best options to apply

    …..and even if they did, they have not the slightest ability to actually implement ANYTHING.

    Perhaps, sir – by distracting themselves with these petty squabbles (and in the PM’s case, by hiding from the public view as much as possible) they are doing us all a big favour….Wuh if real real managers who have a HISTORY of successfully getting things done are now finding themselves up shit street….what you expect from a bunch of donkey holes who, even in good times showed themselves to be at sea…?

    …all Bushie can see them doing is making things worse than they already are…

    …besides these squabbles are entertaining… 🙂 Wait! …Nobody can’t sue the AG for something? …if Bushie was accused of being his father the bushman would definitely want a DNA test….


  24. @Bush Tea

    It is embarrassing to observe the incompetence. More so during these times. The AG is AG by default? Who other can do the job? How does the PM feel about his charges when taken that he is suppose to be well read? How does it reflect on him? What has stopped him from going outside the rejects at the last poll? Bar Benn and Kenny of course. How can this AG lead the change that is required?

    May God help us!


  25. The PM is proudly well read in Shakespeare, who after recent historical research has now been identified after all these centuries as nothing more than a tax dodger, hoarder and scam artist who also knew how to write pretty nonsense. That would not make the PM a good manager or judge of character of the clowns that Thompson stuck the country/taxpayers with, and the country will be stuck with them cause the opposition is no better and has no backbone.


  26. I am glad, we need to stop with the rumour mongering and character assassination BLP vs BLP, DLP vs DLP, BLP vs DLP and BU posters vs everyone!! Bring proof or keep yuh effin mout shut.


  27. Enuff………………check this out, you may have missed it……….

    http://www.nationnews.com/articles/view/pay-up-blacklisted-for-not-paying-royalties/


  28. It is reported that Hinckson intends to defend this lawsuit. Does he have information that would support a defense of truth position? Could it be that Payne has long forgotten what MAM may have supplied to Hinckson? — She could be in the habit compiling dossiers on her perceived enemies, to be supplied to anyone willing to fight her battles by proxy. 🙂 Will Payne reconsider his lawsuit — not able to fully recall actions that he may have forgotten, and that can support Hinkson’s defense? But how would Hinckson know of these things? 🙂 For as Payne reasons with himself that Hinckson cannot have a winnable truth of defense position unless he can substantiate his invectives as truth? This could be risky; maybe it is better to call off the lawsuit -siting the good of the party- suffering minimal damage to one’s reputation in the court of public opinion, than to risk a defence in a court of law that expose what he would rather remain unprovable. LOL!

    Not a perfect catch 22 but one nevertheless. 🙂


  29. @ Adrian Hinds .
    To accuse someone of criminailty and/or fraud is very easy to defend when once the accuser can point to the appropriate convictions for these offences. Good luck to Mr Hinkson if he finds difficulty in performing this task . To state that Mr Payne is unfit to be a member of Parliament is rather more a matter of opinion which he may very well be able to argue. But however you look at it he is in real trouble.


  30. @Lawyer

    Not condoning Hinkson’s behaviour BUT these are big men in a closed room some with known differences. What law suit what!!!


  31. Seems to be numerous munker names linked to the name David King.


  32. The matter calls for some serious political strategizing and manipulation….Hinkson strikes me as a honest open hearted man. .I could be wrong …it seems to me that GP feels slighted and disrespected by his comments….more like a bruised ego hence the law suit


  33. @ David
    Whether there should be a law suit or not is for MR PAYNE to decide ; NOT you or me !


  34. @lawyer

    You state the obvious. Thank God the public is entitled to form perceptions…lol. History will not record the political career of the man of many hats kindly.


  35. Edmund Hinkson”s response to the defamation suit as published in today’s Sunday Sun is very interesting : “obviously if there is a caase I’ll defend it”. One would think that there is an obvoius case .What Hinkson should be saying is ” if I have a defence I will file it ” .


  36. @lawyer

    We will have to wait for the SOD.

    Barbados has become the laughing stock of the Caribbean.

    First it was the E11 matter.

    Now it is the George v Hinkson matter.


  37. @David
    I don’t see how this situation is so bad that according to you, it makes us the laughing stock of the Caribbean. You does follow Trinidad politics?


  38. @Oilman

    Trini politics has been always bacchanal the coup excluded. Barbados on the other hand the opposite.


  39. @ I do not understand your logic. What does the political career of Mr Payne have to do with the issue at stake ? Are you saying that an unkind recording of that career would justify Hinkson calling Payne a criminal and a fraud?


  40. @Lawyer

    We are saying it may have been a ‘skin the botsy in Payne’s face’ moment. Some acts must be taken for the potential to disrupt for the good. To hell with the law suit right? GWP has done nothing to add value to the political landscape of Barbados in the last 12 years while acting as a Kingmaker in the party. BU’s view of course.


  41. @David
    But you mixing up de issues though. This is about defamation. Whether you think George Payne is de worst mp in de world is not the issue.


  42. @Oilman

    You state the obvious.

    For BU it can be anything we want it to be. For Payne and Hinkson they will have their day in court. The ignorance of it all.


  43. @David
    I read you as a man who is speaking and calling for what is best for the party(BLP). This party politics does always mek big men fools. You mean to tell me that George Payne should not sue after what Hinkson said about him? Get real David. How would you feel being told such things in the presence of newbie politicians, who are now jostling for a position in the pecking order, and who could see you as a light weight and even a criminal after what Hinkson said? Sometimes, in fact all de time one should stand by principle and I can understand the move made by George Payne. .


  44. @Oilman

    Please!

    What do you think the law suit does to enhance the BLP in the eyes of the general public? GWP is on the way our with no obvious leadership path. He can continue to go to parliament and revert to being silent, who will care?


  45. @ David
    Your position is NOW clear : preservation of the BLP as a party . I cannot have any quarrel with that position but try to be logical otherwise.


  46. David you know full well that Hinkson must have been in a rage to say what he is reported to have said.

    There is no way to spin this.

    What is Hinkson going to say? So sorry George. uh din mean it. I was jus vex wid you fuh a long time an it did festerin. I sorry,sorry,sorry.


  47. the moral of the story never test the nerves of a drunken man cause he would always speak the truth.


  48. @Hants

    What about the paramountcy or needs of the party?

    Does it count for some thing?


  49. @David
    GWP is on the way our with no obvious leadership path. He can continue to go to parliament and revert to being silent, who will care?
    ******************
    For as long as I have been on this blog I have never been a supporter of GWP, but no matter what you or I or anyone thinks about him he has a right to defend his name and his character if in his opinion it has been besmirched. Your argument runs counter to your position on what the AG said about Boyce so isn’t Payne entitled to the same respect among his peers?

    When all is said and done it is his good name and if he allows it to be dragged through the mud who will restore it?


  50. @Sargeant

    What is so difficult to understand about the point being made? BU has conceded he can have his day in court as he is entitled. In the exchanges with ‘lawyer’ you should have gleaned we have moved passed this point to arguing what is good for the party. Given Payne’s asociation with the gang of 5 and other political shinnagans it is obvious this issue is bigger than GWP feeling affronted by Hinkson. DLP supporters will obviously want this matter to go to court…lol.

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