The Church and Gay Marriage

David Cameron, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom

David Cameron, Prime Minister of the UK

It is no secret that the BU household frowns on Gay couples being allowed to marry in Church. In our simple view, the institution of marriage, related customs, the Church and reproductive sex are all elements we factor to define marriage.

Interesting to note from our research that Canada has had same sex marriages since 2002 and churches are not allowed to refuse to marry people, only the individual priests. Many believe marriage is a legal matter and to obtain a license to conduct marriages, an institution must conduct ALL marriages.

The news that the UK government will “unveil” plans next week to allow Gay couples to marry in Churches is set to raise another firestorm between Church and State. BU recently reported on Church of England Under Pressure to Change by its refusal to allow women Bishops. Prime Minister David Cameron’s government stated position is to protect “churches, mosques and synagogues which do not want to marry gay couples on grounds of belief.”

BU suspects the UK government has painted into a corner on the issue of Gay marriage and the Church. It is known to be illegal for any business in the UK to refuse gays. How then can it be legally sustainable for the established Church (Church of England) to have an opt out, once gay marriage is made a matter of law?

For those who have followed this matter through the years, the debate next month in the UK parliament is eagerly anticipated. As always the machinations in UK law has implication for adoption in Barbados. Same sex marriage and the role of the Church are issues which remain on the backburner in Barbados. Minister Stephen Lashley who has responsibility for family, and Attorney General Adriel Lashley, have played to the public gallery on the issue of homosexuality and related issues.  The rubber may be about to hit the road on this issue and local politicians and clergy et al may be forced to declare an honest position on the issue!

See related link to The Telegraph:

Gay marriage given the green light for weddings in churches

0 thoughts on “The Church and Gay Marriage

  1. Gay marriage may seem to some people in Barbados to be crazy liberal nonsense but the UK and Barbados are at different points of the same development timeline.
    Britain legalised homosexuality in 1967. Homosexuality is not illegal in Barbados, of course, just buggery, but people here are just starting to tentatively mention that scrapping the buggery law should be discussed.
    Almost two complete generations have grown up in the UK with open gay relationships as accepted and normal and most do not see why gay marriage is wrong. Why would they, when being gay has been openly accepted for nearly 50 years?
    Barbados will legalise buggery at some point. It will probably be done in some grudging way, as overt political support for it could be a vote loser as it would be seen as “promotion” of homosexuality. It was the same in the UK. In 1967 the UK Home Secretary said “those who suffer from this disability carry a great weight of shame all their lives” but they still passed the law.
    We just need to get the debate over so we reach a sane position.

  2. that is a law without guts and commitment.! david cameron is a looking to secure his job and not about protecting the indivudal human rights of the gays through same sex marriages . his is doublesided approach one can say he is not genuine in his proposal of the law.

  3. @St.George’s Dragon

    Agree with you. There is a certain inevitability about the debate.


    The issue in this instance is whether the Church must marry same sex couples.

  4. The argument is about equality and listening to what the people want not imposing religious and social laws about sex, marriage, contraception and abortion choices from past. People shouldn’t be made outcasts in society

    AC it is true DC Is playing the numbers game

  5. yes the instance is about wether the church should marry same sex . but the law only is partially attempting to do so. it gives the church a way out of not having to perform same sex marriages . the church of england is already on record against same sex marriages .so what purpose is the law if it does not function to the fullest extent of what it set out to do! i don’t see nothing spectacular or earthshattering about the proposed law just another politician jocketing for position.l it still does not answer the crtical question of gays being married in churches without having to seek reprisal or condemnation from the church of england .the proposal is a sofetening up of the issue .

  6. Now that the British government is contemplating legislation to legally permit ‘same sex’ marriages across the social divide let them remove the other hypocritical walls by allowing adults to have more than one spouse or partner, legally speaking of course. This will apply to heterosexual men and women, homosexuals and transgender relationships.
    We libertines are sure that such legislation in the UK would appease the desires of the fundamentalist Islamists who believe it’s their divine right to have at least 4 wives according to the Koran.
    Many Bajan men like Bushie and even the happy and gay Peter Wickham would be in paradise should such far reaching legislation reach these conservative hypocritical Christian shores.

  7. the biggest hindrance to same sex marriage is the institution of the goverance with in the church of england .therfore i am at loss as to how the law is going to impact change within that instituion and other organizations of similiar thought. same sex marriage is legal. but also can be denied those who choose to opt out citing curch law and theology. where is the law? less we forgot that embodied within the law must be the human rights guaranteed for all which must be abide by all.until such agreed upon by all the law is only a band aid approach to a problem which could be compounded by the church refusal to adhere.. with activist seeking refuge through courts via lawsuits.

  8. This is in part a question of religious freedoms, churches should be able to marry homosexuals, if they want to.

    The proposed UK law would allow churches to refuse to marry gay couples or marry gay couples according to its own interpretation of religious doctrine.

  9. Marriage should be between two consenting adults, whether same sex, opposite sex, black, or white. Still, it is a religious organization’s right to refuse to marry. Marriage is not a requirement under religion; it is a notion of the state/country, with the various customs left to the religious organizations. Businesses are not allowed to discriminate against certain people in terms of admission or service because businesses take something from the state/country in order to operate – e.g., service permits and licenses – so they are “of the state/country.” Therefore, their ability to turn people away should be limited.

    As an aside, the fact that this is a big issue for Barbados with all of the other pressing economic and poverty issues affecting the country, is tragic comedy.

  10. If the churches,and by churches I mean the congregation,must comply with a man made law that the majority of them do not subscribe to,then we might as well take a leaf out of Joseph Stalin’s book, close down the churches and turn them into factories. Then let marriages, heterosexual or otherwise , take place in the Town Hall, Registry , Constituency Office, or the Houses of Parliament.

  11. well if there’s nothing wrong with gay marriage and gay relationships why stop there? if its their right to exercise their sexual orientation even if its not in line with what God wants then forget about the commandments and let everyone do as they like after all its their right to choose is it not? so let the robbers rob its their right to CHOOSE how they make their living, wow this thing really amazes me and people often want to attack the church just when its convenient, sickening.

  12. @Theone…so it is ok for the Church to continue to pretend that homosexuals are not present amongst the clergy and congregation. And where in the ten commandments does it refer to homosexual activity?

  13. islandgal246 | December 9, 2012 at 5:05 PM |
    And where in the ten commandments does it refer to homosexual activity?
    Exodus 20:17 ………… thou shall not covet thy neighbours ass.

  14. the bible speaks out against homosexuality, not in the commandments, yes it may be in the church so what if the church was jumping into a well would we also follow, the Lord gave us the ability to think, poor argument @island girl, @ buggy good one lol

  15. If we extrapolate from how the Laity voted on women in the role of Bishop one can predict similarly on the matter of the Church of England marrying same sex couples (in terms of measuring sentiment). The Laity if we understand correctly represents the laymen and women of the Church. We are set for an interesting debate in the UK. This is not a slam dunk by any means.

  16. @David “If we extrapolate from how the Laity voted on women in the role of Bishop one can predict similarly on the matter of the Church of England marrying same sex couple”

    But David, what if the laity is composed of a lot of gay people.

    Right here in this Barbados we have a whole lotta gay laity on church councils, church boards etc.

    You see unlike the church priests/pastors who are paid to go to church and attend church administrative meetings and unlike the gay laity who mostly have no children to raise, the people in the pews have better things to do than to go to endless church council/board laity meetings.

    So the gay people do the church work. The gay people do not have to go home and cook, clean and wash for their children.

    If the gay Michelangelo had to go home and cook, wash and clean for 10 children do you think he would have had the time to paint pretty pictures on church ceilings?

    So there you have the reason for so many hard working dedicated gay people in the churches.

  17. @ Simple Simon
    Brilliant logic, sound reasoning, and careful analysis…..and in the churches is where they belong, the blind leading the blind.

    Bushie sees absolutely NO REASON why this is an issue. They can marry, have women bishops, fight…whatever…
    What church what?!
    These are just a collection of clubs of people who generally have nothing better to do, and who are hoping that somehow, despite his lack of logic, conviction or common sense support, Zoe can get them to Heaven – where food is free and angels do all the work (LOL, no wonder so many Bajans go to church…)

  18. @Theone to become number two…I just asked you a simple question about the ten commandments and you want to give me lip. Listen to me number two flush it!

  19. Take note that all of the major religions, and all the minor ones too are younger that agriculture.

    Once women had started to practice agriculture about 5,000 years ago, men had less to do and so they invented religions.

    And then they invented war (often over religious foolishness)

    Take note that the gods, prophets, religious texts and icons are overwhelming male centric.

    Why do you think that this is so?

    Because men don’t have anything better to do.

  20. Simple Simon girl I agree with you 99% and the mistake the men made was to open the schools and universities to women. Now the menz doan know wha hit dem. Bushie can attest to that. Doggie alone ent good enuff to keep a woman happy!

  21. @IslandG 246
    Doggie alone ent good enuff to keep a woman happy!
    There are worse things, however to your statement does the noted swordsman BAFBFP know this?

  22. @ David
    How Bushie blaspheming? You can’t mean the wives, cause Bushie still waiting on Islandgal to get closer to four…. 🙂

    @ Simple Simon
    Bushie agrees with most of what you say too… Except that Bushie have more details than Islandgal.
    …what REALLY happened was that, after moving in with a few women such as Islandgal, the old fellows realized that in order to escape the resulting torture, it actually made more sense to form churches and have a rule that excluded women.
    After a few hundred years more women were in church than men, making life THERE miserable as hell too… So the men created war – where they could kill each other in peace without the lotta women messing up everything.

    As we all know, women have now forced their way into battle, which only leave us men with one alternative…. the damn red button and blow up the whole shebang!

    ….this is scheduled for Dec 21, 2012.

  23. The serious Question is; for our Civilization, at this time in history:

    Does embracing homosexuality REALLY cause* societies to SELF-DESTRUCT?

    What does in-depth research reveal, not from Christian scholars, but from Anthropologists, Historians, Economists and Sociologists, independent of the Bible?

    Why is it, that MOST societies throughout history, in ancient civilizations, including the wealthiest and mightiest, eventually collapsed and came to utter ruination, despite increase in knowledge and technology.

    On the other hand, what is it that allows some cultures to continually bloom, and grow, while others wither, fail, and die?

    What do the collective facts reveal regarding this issue of homosexuality, in societies of the past, and can we expect the same END results that is NOW rampantly pushing its homosexualization agenda throughout the societies of modern-day civilization?

  24. ‘Sex and Culture’

    Oxford anthropologist J. D. Unwin’s work on the rise and fall of civilizations, publish in 1934, that can easily be, perhaps the definitive work on this subject, reveal interesting facts and evidence.

    Unwin’s painstaking research in his study of 86 human civilizations, ranging from tiny south sea island principalities, to mighty Rome, found an underlying malady that ultimately led to the failure, of them all!

    Invariably, Unwin found that when a society imposed limits on its ‘sexual’ practices and expression, that those sexual constraints correlate directly to its theological and religious commitment, and achieved greater social development; whereas, the most primitive societies that only had rudimentary spiritual beliefs, and did not achieve such greater social development, as did those, that adopt what Unwin dubbed “absolute monogamy” who proved to be the most vigorous, economically productive, artistically creative, scientifically innovative and geographically expansive societies on earth. (Brian Fitzpatrick, Copyright 2010 WorldNetdaily, p.38)

    Absolute monogamy is a very strict moral code. Sex can only occur within one-man/one-woman marriage. Premarital sex and extramarital sex are not tolerated and divorce is prohibited.

    Whether monotheistic or polytheistic, they believe devoutly in God or gods, and they order their society according to divine moral law.

    Unwin’s contemporary, British historian, Arnold Toynbee, was much more explicit about the centrality of religion in history. Toynbee’s master-piece, his 12 volume “Study of History,” charted the rise and fall of 26 civilizations. In Toynbee’s view, “The course of human history consists of a series of encounters…in which each man or women or child…is challenged by God to make the free choice between doing God’s will and refusing to do it.

    Why exactly does absolute monogamy, the Pauline moral code, bring vitality to a society? Absolute monogamy fosters cultural growth by solving what anthropologist Margaret Mead called the “central problem of every society”

    -that is, to “define appropriate roles for the men,” Monogamous civilizations require men to choose either lifelong celibacy or the responsibilities of a husband: fidelity, breadwinning and fatherhood. Most men choose to marry, to their good fortune, because married men tend to be healthier, happier and more productive than bachelors.

    Those committed husbands create stable marriages, which offer the greatest opportunity for raising healthy, productive children who can keep a society strong and growing.

    Likewise, the great economist Joseph Schumpeter attributes the success of capitalism not to the entrepreneur’s lust for money or status, but to his love of family. To Schumpeter, the central pillar of any healthy civilization is the self-sacrificing married man who doesn’t spend his income of his pleasures, but prefers “to work and save primarily for wife and children.

    And in “Family and Civilization,” Harvard historian Carle Zimmerman concludes that ” the creative periods in civilization have been based upon” the strongest form of family, which he terms the “domestic” type.

    The domestic family affords a comparatively stable social structure and yet frees the individual sufficiently from family influence to perform the creative work necessary for a great civilization. (Ibid., p.39).

  25. Instead of Cut and Paste – Stick a link up you homo
    Cut ✂ ———————————

    At last, Lee ‘Scratch’ Perry the Upsetter saying in a loud voice:
    is my brand new song, coming from the sea and sun, Jamaica, the
    island in the sun, Emperor Halie Selassie I, Lightning and
    Thunder, Hailstone, Brimstone and Fire, Music; whirlwind,
    hurricane and tidalwave judgment mixed by Earthquake the
    Ambassador, produced by Flood.

    Jesus Christ’s blood on the cross, while a piece of shit stuck in
    Moses’ ass when he was writing the Ten Commandments, as well in
    transfiguration of Jesus Christ on Mount Sinai, lightning flashing
    out of his eye, riding his white horse.

    Lightining, thunder, ball of fire, 1980 and 8 future. Mossiah
    Zodiac, the weather interpretor. Pipecock Jackson, Jack Lightning,
    Jesse the Hammer, Magnetic Abaja Perry. Push Bush alight, ’cause
    it is Lee ‘Scratch’ Perry who control all the American assets and
    world economic structure: The 100 cash index, all millions,
    trillions, zillions of dollars, and millions, trillions, and
    billions in pounds hijack and kidnap by Jesus Christ – my sweet
    prick who piss, and rain come; shake his cock, and lightning
    flash; fart, and thunder roll.

    Seven seas and seven seal, Neptune world, nose code. I am the
    future – and all who doubt it, go and ask Satan: Lucifer, de
    Devil, Phantom Pluto, Lex Luther, the arch-criminal from Krypton
    (Phantom Zone Jail), where he escape in a pail of shit by drinking
    acid and turning into mercury, in Oblivion. But I came and I saw
    and I conquer. I came to London, England, Britian, and conquered.
    I capture Lex Luthor with my Teddy Bear, my hair, and my Invisible
    Chair, and my 144,000 Mosquito Angels what sting with lightning,

    I, Pipecock Jackxon, Jack Lightning, Jesse the Hammer, Lee
    ‘Scratch’ Perry (Perry Lee: £ for pound, $ for Scratch, and ‘D’
    for Daniel Dandelion the Lion; Jah, Jehoviah, Jah Rastafari the
    Crumbler; black supremacy, black music; the ghost of King Arthur
    and his sword, Excalibur – the oath of the King: ‘Death before
    dishonor’) put a curse on BBC radio and television, and BBC
    government that they can never overcome or undo until they repent
    and start playing Mr. Perry records morning, noon, night and day,
    and around the clock- tic toc.

    Tic tic toe. Big Ben de time clock is my headmaster. Together we
    interpretate disaster for the popes, de deacons, and de pastor,
    for all who don’t piss, shit and poop, and spit and fu-ck (makin’
    love like it is), hold up them hand and God will strike them with
    lightning, ’cause He know that they will be committing a sin, that
    their grandfather and grandmother did in the beginning, tempted by

    Highty tighties, mighthy mighties; Jah is mightier. Jah is wicked,
    wickeder than wicked. Jah is evil, eviler than the evils, ’cause
    it is HE, Jah, who creates the good and evils, and it is HE, Jah,
    who creates the good and bad. Jah is cruel, crueler than cruel.
    Jah is mean, meaner than mean. Jah meanie-meanie-tekel nick hell
    riches, nick hell fortune, and nick hell fame; nick hell mo-neyum
    and cashum with opium, onion, garlics, scullion, and thyme. A.D.
    vendetta, the Upsetter, ridding the alligator as the Grim Reaper:
    Killer of theif-ers. Butcherer of traitors. Exterminator of
    vampires. Liquidators of robbers. And the exterminator of the
    I.M.F. And the liquidator of the rich. And the presenter of the
    poor. For the rich shall be poorer, and the poor shall be richer.
    It is a switch connection, comin from Buddha, from Oblivion, where
    He sits in Infinity.

    Tick cop. Tut-tut cop. I am the mop who don’t shoot. I chop, and
    who I don’t run through with my sword, I slew them with my rod.

    Washing machines, water pip. Tops, mops. Fridges, Freezers.
    Ceasers, geezers. Guilders, yen. German marks, sterlings. Pounds
    and dollars. Pence and pences. Cents and sense. Munch and munches.
    Dimes and dimees. Half and quarters. Uncle Sam Sharp return with
    him harp, with ice and sickle, his hammer and pickle. Ashes to
    ashes, dust to dust. Six foot six, and 666; Mixiplix.

    This is a magic potion name VoomVATa, and it have a name:
    BoomTAXa. Voom VATters and boom TAXers. And as for you Locksers,
    repent, before I cut another stench and defuse thee with my
    shit-pipe, hot-pipe. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!

    Voice of the Master, laughin’ in the Echo Chamber. I repeat: I
    break the spell, and I undo what the wicked have done. I now turn
    the Table of Life, and make the rich poor and the poor rich. All
    that a rich man have will be taken away and given to the poor. And
    if them argue about it, we will shoot them in this full-scale
    glorious revolution of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

    Super Ape firmament; Ten Commandments. Death to liars. Death to
    heathens. Death to pagans. Death to vampires. Death to thief.
    Death to robbers. Death to Rulers of Sins and Commanders of
    Murders in Cold Blood. An eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. That
    day gonna be a blood bath, soon.

  26. @ Zoe
    …and you are saying all that to say that Bushie CANNOT have Islandgal….? 🙁
    Cuhdear Bushie only looking for four…. The bushman ain’t in Solomon’s league……yet

  27. Seriously though Zoe, it is about time you got something RIGHT!

    Homosexuality does NOT cause the destruction of society.
    You playing you know a lot of statistics, but the correlation that admittedly exists between full blown sexual deviance and the end of societies is that BOTH of these are caused by an altogether different causative source.

    Sexual deviance is a SYMPTOM of a very serious spiritual illness. The kind that if not addressed URGENTLY, results in societal death.

    where the national systems become corrupt to the core and the basic instruments of society like justice, education, Law and Order and such become unjust and wicked.

    As Bushie tried to explain to you, these spiritual realities are paralleled with physical examples, and we all know that when dirty, filthy conditions are allowed to flourish, diseases come to light – often afflicting totally innocent citizens…..

    Left unchecked, (massive cleanup and new habits) the whole society goes down the drain….

    This is the spiritual mirror image….

  28. Continuing from this mornings post:

    Reasons for decline

    If devotion to God, a Pauline moral code, and strong marriages and families are the keys to cultural success, then what causes civilizations to decline?

    Zimmerman warns of “periods of family decay in which civilization is suffering internally from a lack of a basic belief in the forces which make it work.” Unwin’s explanation would be that if people lose their faith in God, they tend to lose their motivation to live by the strict moral code.

    In “This Present Age,” sociologist Robert Nisbet writes, “What sociologists are prone to call social disintegration is really nothing more than a spectacle of a rising number of individuals playing fast and loose with other individuals in relationships of trust and responsibility.” Moral standards begin to erode when a society’s members chafe at the disciple imposed by absolute monogamy and begin to gratify their personal impulses without regard for the consequences inflicted on others.

    In other words, in an amoral, hedonistic society, you can’t trust the people you need to trust, not even your spouse. Moreover, if people can make and break relationships at will, with no legal repercussions or social stigma, they are much more likely to abandon their marriages – at their children’s expenses – when the going gets tough. Husbands with roving eyes are much more likely to trade in their wives for new models.

    Thus, the founder of Harvard’s sociology department, Pitirim Sorokin, warned that if individualistic selfishness and self-seeking are not checked, a society will lapse into a state of “sexual anarchy.” In “The American Sex Revolution,” Sorokin writes that “both man and society are degraded” as culture becomes “sexually obsessed.”

    The members of such a society are habituated to look at the opposite sex as mere instruments for pleasure…to these individuals, talk of human dignity, religious and moral commandments, and rules of decency is just bosh…the society degrades the values of womanhood and manhood, of motherhood and family, and even of love itself.

    The predictable result? Divorce, desertion, and deviance become commonplace when “what is considered morally reprehensible is now recommended as a positive value; what we once called demoralization is now styled moral progress and a new freedom.” The parallel to the men Paul wrote about, who approve of others who commit heinous sins, is striking. Where as Sorokin described this condition as “moral schizophrenia.” Paul said nations on this condition where on the brink of divine judgment. (Brian Fitzpatrick, Copyright 2010 WorldNetDaily, p. 39)

  29. @ Zoe | December 10, 2012 at 7:50 PM |
    “The members of such a society are habituated to look at the opposite sex as mere instruments for pleasure…to these individuals, talk of human dignity, religious and moral commandments, and rules of decency is just bosh…the society degrades the values of womanhood and manhood, of motherhood and family, and even of love itself.”

    We wonder what these great Christian sociologists and zoologists have to say about the commercial enslavement of people from West African lands leading to 300 years of genocide, physical and sexual exploitation, deliberate dislocation of family structures, cultural castration and religious reprogramming that took place in a plantation system akin to the concentration camps and experiences similar to the Holocaust.

    Where was your Judeo-Christian god when all of this was happening? Sleeping or looking away and having a good laugh at the suffering of these sinful creatures for their race’s original curse? What did these people do to your vindictive god as to invite such heinous punishment?

    And to make matters worse the same stupid race still continue to worship the same sadistic god hoping some day he would forgive them for the curse of their ancestor who accidentally stumbled on a naked drunkard and dared to walk away to tell his brothers.
    Poor Ham, he should have done the decent thing and put his dad Noah back in the Ark with 2 large casks of wine and set it sail to Alaska to drop off the 2 polar bears still on board.

    If you believe that yarn you could as well believe that Jesus was a god made in China.

  30. Miller,

    “Where was your Judeo-Christian god when all of this was happening?

    The same place HE WAS when all the other heinous crimes against humanity was taking place, AND also, the same place WHEN HIS, Only begotten Son, the LORD JESUS CHRIST, BORE the PUNISHMENT of ALL MANKIND’S SINS, BLACK, WHITE, BROWN, YELLOW, and IN-BETWEEN!

    “Sleeping or looking away and having a good laugh at the suffering of these sinful creatures for their race’s original curse? What did these people do to your vindictive god as to invite such heinous punishment?”

  31. Children – the real victims!

    The immediate victims of sexual anarchy, of course, are children.

    Barbara Dafoe Whitehead writes: “After decades of so-called family diversity, the evidence from social-science research coming in: The dissolution of two-parent families, though it may benefit the adults involved, is harmful to many children, and dramatically undermines our society

    What exactly happens when we take fathers out of the family picture? The National Fatherhood Initiative tells the sorry tale: “Children who live absent their biological fathers are, on average, at least two to three times more likely tom be poor, to use drugs, to experience educational, health, emotional and behavioral problems, to be victims of child abuse, and to engage in criminal behavior than their peers, who live with their married biological ( or adoptive) parents. (Whistleblower, November 2010, p.40).

  32. How long does it take for CULTURAL disintegration to set in?

    Unwin observed that civilizations cease to grow within three generations after retreating from absolute monogamy. If they fail to return to monogamy, they will continue to slide into individualism and hedonism, and civial disorder will ensue.

    Likewise, in his “Social and Cultural Dynamics,” Sorokin who studied 1,623 “internal disturbances in Greco-Roman and European history,” found that sexual permissiveness almost always precedes or accompanies ‘an explosion of sociopolitical disturbances.

    Such selfish, undisciplined societies meet ugly fates. Unwin found that every society, without exception, that rejects absolute monogamy either becomes a stagnant backwater or collapses altogether.

    Toynbee famously wrote, “Civilizations die by suicide, NOT by murder.” And Sorokin warned that America, in the 1960s was committing national suicide by sexual indulgence, predicting that as sex outside of marriage became more commonplace, Americans’ birthrate would decline even as illegitimacy increased.

    Unwin might agree with Toynbee that some civilizations die by suicide, but he would also point out that many civilizations do indeed die by murder. Civilizations that have turned permanently from absolute monogamy have often been conquered and absorbed by more vigorous civilizations, he documents. For example, after the first great Western civilization, Grece, was conquered by Rome in the second B. C.

    After all, writes Anne Glyn-Jones in “holding Up a Mirror: How Civilizations Decline”: They were, in Roman eyes, an effete and effeminate people who deserved nothing better.

    Where then does homosexuality fit into cultural decline? Is it just a rightwing “old wives” tale’ that an increase in homosexuality signals the decline of a civilaztion – or is it actually true?

    Will Durant, author of the 11 volume series “The Storyt of Civilization,” observed that homosexual behavior becomes prevalent as socities go into decline. Unwin noted that “the historical evidence [suggest] that homosexuality is a habit that appears in a society…that has been absolutely monogamous, and is relaxing.” And Zimmerman wrote that “Homosexuality is always present in society, but in trustee and domestic family types it is strongly repressed. In late atomistic family systems it becomes much the fashion…”

    If Durant, Unwin and Zimmerman are correct, the increasing prominence of homosexual behavior and its radical legitimization – almost to the point of veneration – in American society confirms omninously that the nation has strayed too far from the “straight and narrow” moral path that invigorates civilizations.

    America currently is choosing whether, and how much, ti embrace and normalize homosexuality. Before deciding to bring homosexuality even further into its cultue, Americans should take careful note at the homosexual political and cultural agenda in light of Unwin’s and others’ revelations. (Ibid, p. 40).

  33. Radical ans Subversive Agenda.

    On its website, the Human Rights Campaign claims to be “the largest civil rights organization working to achieve equality for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Americans.” Their official narrative is that homosexuals are an oppressed, victimized minority group and that activists are merely working to secure civil rights and social “equality” – hence the adoption of the “=” sign as their symbol. But civil equality is only part of the agenda. Homosexual activists are also enacting a radical socio-cultural agenda that would shock Unwin and other classic historians and social researchers.

    As homosexual activists have grown more sophisticated in recent years, they have stopped placing some of their more objectionable demands before the public. For example, the North American Man-Boy Love Association is no longer welcome at most “gay pride” parades, as it once was. ( Author’s note: That dosen’t necessarily mean “gay rights” activists have rejected pedophilia, or even NAMBLA. At the 2008 National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association Convention, I saw a man proudly sporting a NAMBLA tee-shirt at the mixer on the first evening of the event. Organizers failed to kick the man out and noboy seemed to notice that anything was wrong.)

    Since their long-term activist agenda was more plainly expressed in platforms puvlished in years past, here are selected planks of homosexual rights platformds published in 1972, 1987, and 1993, focusing on positions relating to the three pillars of a healthy and growing civilization identified by Unwin: 1) strong marriages and families, 2) striong sexual restrictions, and 3) religion.

    Marriage and family

    * We demand legislation to prevent discrimination against Lesbians, Gays, Bisexuals and Transgendered people in the areas of family diversity, custody, adoption and foster care and that the definition of family includes the full diversity of all family structures.

    * Repeal all legislative provisions that restrict the sex or number of persons entering into a marriage unit.

    * Unrestricted, safe and affordable alternative insemination.

    Homosexual activists would radically redefine the family to embrace virtually ANY combination of people imaginable, from threesomes and foursomes to families with no identifiable father and families without a mother. In effect, the word “family” would become meaningless. Are these the types of aggregations likely to produce children who can keep a society growing?

    * Anti-homophobic curriculum in the schools.

    * And end to discrimination based on sexual orientation in all programs of
    the Boy Scouts.

    Activists would coerce educators into promoting a gay-friendly curriculum in schools, a goal that have already achieved in many parts of the country. they would also force private institutions like the Boy Scouts to go along with the program so children would not be taught that homosexuals behavior is wrong.

    Many commentators have suggested that allowing homosexuals to marry each other would encourage them to turn away from promiscuity for which their subculture is infamous. But adapting the homosexual lifestyle to monogamous marriage is NOT what most have in mind; on the contrary, many wish to change marriage to suit the homosexual lifestyle. According to prominent homosexual columnist Michelangelo Signorile, “gays” would seek instead to make adultery acceptable by redefining the “archaic institution” of marriage.

    In the end, the word “marriage” would become meaningless as well, just as other countries have already discovered that making marriage available to homosexual couples undermines the institution of marriage for all people.

    “Scandinavian gay marriage has driven home the message that marriage itself is outdated,” says anthropologist Stanley Kurtz, ” and that virtually any family form, including out-of wedlock parenthood, is acceptable. Kurtz notes that after 10 years of legalized same-sex marriage in Scandinavia, “marriage parenthood has become a minority phenomenon.” He also reports that growing numbers of heterosexual couples are having families without bothering to tie the knot, and thar the number of children being raised in fatherless homes is climbing quickly because the rate of breakup of unmarried couples is two to thee times the rate of divorce among married couples. (Ibid., p.41)

  34. Sexual restrictions and the Pauline Moral Code

    * Repeal of all sodomy laws and other laws that criminalize private sexual expression between consenting adults.

    * Repeal all laws governing the age of consent.

    The radical homosexual agenda would cast out the Pauline moral code altogether by removing all restrictions on sexual expression except rape. Incest, polygamy, fornication, adultery and sexual practices too repugnant to describe in print would become normalized socially and even protected by law.

    Children would lose the protection of laws that shelter them from sexual predatory adults As long as a child “consents” to an adult’s advances, the predators would have nothing to fear. (Ibid., p.41)

  35. Natural Law is given to us from our Creator, Almighty God, as there can be no OUGHT* unless it is first grounded in an IS*!

    People tend to think they own the earth and should govern it and one another. As a result, both the earth and its people are still traveling a deadly path caused by their dependence on self-rule.

    Scientists and laypersons know that to succeed they must conform to nature’s laws of physics. So with the plethora of wrong results occurring daily, they should welcome news of a formerly unidentified natural law defining mankind’s right behavior.

    Decades ago Richard W. Wetherill identified that law and called it nature’s law of right action. It requires rational, honest behavior, and people need to know that their well being and their very lives depend on adhering to it.

    Ordinarily principled people tend to be admired and respected when, in fact, it is natural-law principles that deserve admiration and respect; not people acting in accord with them.

    Generally speaking, people feel free to satisfy their noble or ignoble desires and ambitions until they learn that rational, honest action is the requirement of this natural law; action lacking appeal to persons seeking acclaim. But Wetherill often said that America is the one nation where nature’s law of right action could safely have been declared, discussed, and finally implemented.

    Apparently irrational, dishonest behavior will continue until more people discover they are pitting their objectives against the higher power of a created natural law.

    Those who do adhere to creation’s law of right action are peaceful and productive members of society. They have learned that the formula for success in human endeavors is to conform to all applicable natural laws, especially nature’s law of right action described in the several Natural-law Essays at our website:

  36. with the unconscionable and despicable tragedy that happen today in Connecticut the questions of “why”would be asked among the greifing and one or many such such question would be asked of GOD in their desire for answers.

  37. apparentley we bajans forget so fast an we dont seem to know what it is exactly we are messing with do not forget sodom an gommarah that could not stand so idk what makes them socialist think its gonna now woe be tid when he returns.everything that is disguisting an nasty be sure britian wud be in it ppl i know we are a sinnfull people but it does not mean we have to engage and accept this abomination into the house of YAHweh NO way HE WONT ALLOW EVEN IF U DO remember sodom and gomarah

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