Submitted by Phoenix
BLP promises to rollback VAT to 15%
Barbados was introduced to an increase in Value Added Tax on 1st December 2010 by Minister of Finance Chris Sinckler. According to the economic review of the first six months of 2012 released by the Central Bank of Barbados in July 2012, provisional estimates for the 2011-2012 fiscal year are that VAT brought in BDS$949.6 million dollars into the Treasury. On a whole, VAT contributed BDS$764.8 million of the BDS$1.2 billion in indirect taxes taken in by government last year – Read more.
The leader of Her Majesty’s Opposition, Mr. Owen. Arthur, at the recent BLP Convention held in the Queens Park, informed all, of a sure reversal of the 2.5 % Vat increase, when his party wins the next elections. This revelation has already left many DLP supporters in shock and awe, for they know such relief would only spell their demise. This welcomed and empathic committal, would take much of the burdensome strain off the backs of the people, and will bring true meaning to the DLP’s empty rant. “A community, not just an economy.”
So why is it that the DLP on coming to power, back in January 2008, with Foreign Reserves to the tune of $2.4 Billon, found it necessary two years later, to slap on a 2.5% increase in Vat? Not only did they collect an additional $100 Million approx. each year for four (4) years, but there was also the jaunty boast by the Minister of Finance Sinckler of $120 Million collected in excess last year. Excessive collections at the expense of increased unemployment, increased food prices, poor quality drugs and an overall decline in the standard of living of all Barbadians. Today, it begs the question was the increase really necessary? Why is it that we are seeing all the large scale extraction of monies from the people, yet no commensurate asset worth to show?
Vat continues to deliver lashes on the people. Lashes so hot and concuss, when delivered in tandem with $400 Million collected on fuel by the BNOC, has left an all but broken spirited people with nothing to pay their increased water and electricity bills. Really now, what was this current administration thinking? Given that the amount was said to be excess and ‘unexpected’, would it not have made more sense in the last Budget to have given it back in the form of relief? How could their “dearly beloved,” people now completely impoverish by these draconian measures, be expected to cope, far less give them another 5 year term to further the inefficacious? Indeed Mr. Arthur, we are waiting. Free the infirmed people from this obvious lamprey. Revamp and give new meaning to Observer’s commensurate calypso “Cat Attack“ Vat Attack. Relief is long overdue and very much needed; do so before anymore lose their wits ends and succumb to this millstone.
“Phoenix”
Who is this BLP joker the Blog owner now dig up?
Saying nothing of any importance.
Is this the best that the BLP can do?
Phoenix
you ought to be telling Bajans about the Payments that they will have to make for all things Educational and Health if they foolishly return you your lot to power.
Tell the civil servants if it is 10000 or 12000 of them who will be sent home.
Dont keep these things a secret from them.
You have the right name.
PHOENIX
A mythical fire bird.
Your Barbados Labour Party plan to set the Civil Service on fire if given a chance.
But it is five more years for you on the opposition benches. Just get used to the idea.
Phoenix
If I were a supporter of a political party I most certainly would NOT want you on my side ’cause you like you really ain’ know too much ’bout too much … But yah new so I will be respectful and offer you advice. Go ‘cross to Barbados Free Press, you might get a better response from ‘cross there hear …
A Daniel…a second Daniel …Oh Mr. Phoenix….thank ya , thank ya ..THE TRUTH DOES HURT …and from what I see from the above RESPONSES…it like Gabby’s “needles and pin”…(Baffy commenting on politics)….WE LOOK FORWARD to see your continued writings MRMRS PHOENIX. (excellent for a first timer)….Ya got DEM LIKE A CAT PUN A HOT TIN ROOF…..keep up the writing ..you surely sent FROM ABOVE……doan mind Balaams finest….he duz take shoite PERIOD !…he can’t help…..best of all your LINK with CariBBean 360 is the bomb….Shite ya mean according to the Central Bank FIGS… DEM come and find $2.5 Billion in Foreign and as of July 2012..IT DOWN TO ONLY $1.3 Billion?….sometihin wrong here….something wrong…way all that money GONE ?
Per CarriBBean 360
Corr : June 2012 sorry…..
snip
“Also, Barbados foreign exchange reserves at the end of June stood at $1,357 million, marking a decline of $63 million since December 2011.”
Read more: http://www.caribbean360.com/index.php/business/595646.html#ixzz2BFQZoCV0
Lemee do my lil shop keeper accounting here….Start wid $2.5 Billion….collect annuda $0.4B from Fuel (BNOC)….collect annuda $4B from Vat..($1billion each yr for 4 years)..total collect $4.4 Billion
Start…………….$2.5 Billion
Collect………….$4.4 Billion
Total…………….$6.9 Billion
Close……………$1.3Billion ???
Ya mean DEM spend $5.6 Billion in 4 years ( $6.9 -1.3Billion)…..pun what may I ask ?…..$ 1.4 Billion a year? ..Madness, sheer madness..
Behold, Onions rises again – this time as a bird of fire 🙂
@Bushie
People never learn. Credibility means nothing.
@Anthony
What was the level of debt pay since the DLP took office?
@ Phoenix
Not only did they collect an additional $100 Million approx. each year for four (4) years, but there was also the jaunty boast by the Minister.
***********************
Ya got me on this one ..you mean 2 years right ?….but you musse do D research….
@Bushie ..doan be a C arrot……I duz write like this?….onions more into story writing bout battles dreams and giant…..don’t see my Mark Twain style in all my thread?..not abrupt like a lexicon.
A simple question, name me one country that has rolled back its VAT after having increased it?
Now looka how some people lookin to eat humble pie…..You really believe Mr. Owen Seymore Arthur would take such a BIG RISK…to roll back on this one and damage his LEGACY. ?…Boss get real
I have always contended and will do so until my dying day that the introduction of VAT was a bad idea. Admittedly it brings in more money but it is taking that money from those who can least afford it. People with lower salaries are paying a greater percentage of their salary in taxes. Consider a person whose wages are $250 per week and another who earns $2,000 per week; let’s say that both are purchasing an item the VAT on which is $50. Now express that $50 as a fraction of their salaries and then see who is paying the higher percentage of their salary in taxes.
VAT is easier to collect but it is burdensome on the poor. No one who claims to be representing the interest of poor people should even have contemplated its introduction. People who earn more should pay more but with VAT, it does not work like that. VAT HURTS THE POOR. Increasing it by 2.5% says that you are only paying lip service to the concerns of the poor.
Additionally, there are a significant number of people who collect VAT and refuse to pay it into Government and no action is taken against them. Instead, they steal and Government increased the rate to make up for the shortfall. Politicians really feel that all Barbadians are idiots.
Good morning Onions
Hope you had a good night’s rest but from your posts so far it doesn’t look so. I know you does be up all night peeping at your neighbour so that may also have affected your thoughts.
Please explain Owen’s legacy up to this point
If so much more VAT has been collected, WHY is Government so reluctant to repay VAT refunds? How many small other businesses like ours have been left waiting over TWO YEARS for refunds?
Since, in a broad sense, we are talking about VAT and just to get away from the standard political mouthings (and those from Cadogan are particularly silly) – will someone who knows please comment on this:-
1. Is VAT chargeable on an imported item INCLUDING the value of the shipping cost?
2. Where import and excise duty are chargeable, is VAT charged on the value of the item PLUS the quantum of import and excise duty or on the value of the item alone (such that the import and excise duties are then added to the value of the item plus VAT)?
The latter is particularly significant. Customs officers at the Post Office are insisting that VAT is computed on the whole but give no reasons. Attempts to find out the answer from Customs and Excise result in the same response – despite promises to ‘come back to you’. If they are right, it means that VAT is chargeable on a tax upon a tax doesn’t it – and that seems totally potty?
Incidentally, are we not entitled to expect that customs officers actually know the basis upon which they are purporting to levy charges?
com’on caswell you can do better than that. that is a poor excuse! it boils down to adjusting or controlling one spending habits, in adddition there are social programs which help the poor,the problem with arthur is that he is trying to please and appease and it is not going to work because of the harsh reality of the ecnomiic climate and then his plans becomes even more suspicious when he does not say how and when and where he is going to generate the revenue lost by vat, except to lay off thousands of people and that in itself is problematic given the negative fallout to follow, in good times OSA never had to scratch his head but now in bad times he knows there are no easy answers but would rather LIE to the public hoping no one would notice,
adrien loveridge you have managed and run a business for years and there is something called “prioritize” the govt have many mouths to feed on a limited and timely budget and as one who have benefited from the good economic times you can understand the dilemma that the govt finds itself in times like these the words of JOHN F> KENNEDY is most appropriate and one should ask themselves such a question especially the well off and privileged among the masses sometimes our civic responsibility should take precedent and not one of being selfishess .we are all of one nation .think about it!
can not get it back as it was used for new cars and trips trips to new york ad Miami for shopping with the families for toys and x boxes and TV things you know..when you is a big shot you got to have a big TV and all that stuff..i hope they drown in their stuff acquired from pure teefing,
simple really thieves and disgusting people abound in barbados.
snigger is a thieving two faced uneducated waste of space and should be shot forthwith.
@Caswell
You are correct that VAT is a regressive tax and given that the poor/working class must spend a greater share of income on food they are the ones that don’t have wriggle room. Unfortunately there is no perfect system and this is where the zero rated basket is to offset the issue you raised but we know the merchants don’t always honour this arrangement. In the absence of a strong consumer advocacy the consumers are left holding the bag.
We all know the late payment of VAT is a combination of an inefficient system which permeates the public service and managing cashflow.
On 4 November 2012 13:16, Barbados Underground
David
The problem with enforcing the VAT laws has nothing to do with the junior public officers whose duty it is to collect the tax. Often, officers are proceeding against someone who has failed to pay the VAT and the officer is taken off the case after the VAT cheat made a phone call to a Minister of Government or a senior public officer.
I remember a few years ago, an officer discovered that Courts Barbados Ltd. was not paying in the VAT. An investigation was carried out and an assessment of $25 million was made against the company. The file was taken away from the officer and she was reassigned other work. The assessment was never pursued. All this was happening while the company was giving away cars and free living for a year, presumably out of the stolen VAT.
By the way, because of that case and others like it, the officer got disgusted and retired early and is now drawing a Government pension.
Excellent point Caswell…..in addition.. why is Gov’t not going after those who not paying IN collected Vat ..that which is Caesar’s? .. why I do recall a stupid piece of Legislat. draft…about making directors’ liable..mouthed by…but recalled for further study…What has become of that?…truth of the matter is Vat is a WIP ..it needs to be fine tuned ..hence the mess.
@Clone…I see you back to being the Clown…that is ok too….the season will end on the week of Jan 9th….then we hope you will also awake..
Income since 2008 : 10.1 billion bds
Expense since 2008 : 13.4 billion bds
Net loss since 2008 : 3.4 billion bds
This doesn’t include bolts or roundabout etc
Vat since 2008 : 3.7 billion
Interest payment since 2008: 2.1 Billion
best not talk about all this money or excess of as the world bank and IMF may come and take it from you idiots as you owe them way more than the highest figure in this column.
@robert ross
1 Yes
2 To correctly estimated the duties & vat to be paid the offical way as far as i know is.
Duties = CIF * (Duty rate + Excess tax if appliable )
vat is = ( CIF + Duties ) * vat rate
ac,
I think I understand your argument, but shouldn’t Government lead by example. I haven’t seen any MP’s and/or Ministers take a pay cut. Nor have I seen a single civil servant being sent home or ‘working’ reduced hours.
What I have seen is senior public workers taking delivery of luxury vehicles and then quitting the job days later.
Is that what you mean by ‘civic responsibility’ ?
Do you know why you pay 17% vat and I pay 13% hst?
Canada ha oil, gas, potash and millions of people willing to work for minimum wage not to mention Americans still buying what we sell.
Barbados has nothing sea sand and lawyers. And a few good men like Bushie,Bizzy an Lowdown the farmer..
There is no way any group of politicians can save Barbados because nothing from nothing.
No oil, no mineralsm no raw materials and no plan to dramatically reduce the dependence on others.
I doan have to read an spell fuh wunna. Read between de lines an wait fuh Owen to sell wunna asses down to underwear.
David forgive my rant.Lewis another DNF so I am not in a good mood. I gine to de river an fish fuh Rainbow trout.
@Hants
Don’t worry, he has probably switched to Mercedes mode already 🙂
On 4 November 2012 14:09, Barbados Underground
@ Anthony
Thankyou very much for responding. I’m not really understanding your formulae but I think you are saying “Yes, VAT is computed on the value of the goods plus import duty plus excise duty.” ie what the customs officer suggested was the correct computation.
If I am right that that is what you are saying it certainly accords with what is taken as the accepted way of doing it – though no-one seems able to suggest the authority for it; and it does not seem consonant with the idea of VAT as a charge on goods and services. – well unless you say that the value of the goods imported is enhanced by the value of the duties imposed on them.
adrien again you have seek to point blame in other areas my question to you would the two cases cited help dramatically in lowering the deficit b. remember for every action there is a reaction and a reaction that which one think might solve a problem might create a bigger problem. remember again as a business person incentives are necessary and an attractive tool for getting the best and most qualified for high profile jobs which at times take more than give when it relates to family and time some thing that can be replaced sometimes we look at the little picture which encompassed not one individual but family and extended family members so before we take we must be willing to factor in what the individual is giving up.think about it!
@ac
The issue Adrian is quizzing is not the efficacy of the tax but the efficiency in how it is being managed.
On 4 November 2012 14:29, Barbados Underground
Its a Fake !
Its a Bluff
Rachel Maddow referred to Mitt Romney’s and the GOP assertion that they will win as a Bluff , a Fake
DITTO –FREUNDEL STUART + DLP hacks
@ Anthony:
Do you know the most recent figure for VAT outstanding, i.e. remains in arrears or uncollected?
david the question poised by adrien was why he did not get his vat refund correlating it to a reluctance on govt part. and as an extension further follow up to state that govt MP’s should take a salary cut and public workers sent home as a a way of resolve .i however sees it differently as by my response.as far as how it is managed i compared to a family of six where the apple can only feed four equal amounts however the head of household to be efficient must slice that apple into a fair set amount not necessarily equal which means the pieces would be smaller in order for all to share and in such cases not everyone would be happy. .
BU agrees with Adrian. It must be hard in these times for businessmen to survive. If government has an obligation to honour VAT refunds, it SHOULD! In much the same way it refuses to honour a Court Order to pay Barack. We are a right mess. Again he is correct that leaders lead by example and one way the government can extend empathy to the people is to reduce the size and cost of the Cabinet. It is about making effective and efficient decisions.
On 4 November 2012 15:05, Barbados Underground
@david 10:46
U r correct. People don’t mind paying once fairness, efficiency and accountability can be shown.
Vat gone up, more money collected, but thee economy moved from stable to stagnant. Kind of reminds one of the BWA increases…
The issues are, can the blp afford to roll back the vat? Doees the other side of their economic formula allow for it? Are the dlp maximizing the little revenue they’re getting while aggresively attacking expenditure? Is a tax the best way to prop up an economy?
The answers to these might lead to a better debate and a better choice in the voting box. I think B’dos deserves one decent devate on the competing economic visions and philosophies. The media back and forth and partisan talking points here and elsewhere don’t help us to reasonably determine which “path” if any is best for thee country and its individuals.
Just observing
@ miller
Last number i hear was 300 milllion of which 50% was supposibly uncollectible since buisness ceased to exist.
@ robert rose
the link should help minus it being a bit out of date talking about enviromental levy http://businessbarbados.com/investor-guide/duties-and-taxes/
@ ac:
“Again he is correct that leaders lead by example and one way the government can extend empathy to the people is to reduce the size and cost of the Cabinet. It is about making effective and efficient decisions. ”
I don’t think it is possible for you “ac” to appreciate the importance of the above statement. You are so myopically partisan that commonsense is the Holy Grail to you. Nothing with a modicum critical constructive objectivity can influence “ac” into seeing the forest from the trees as far as this DLP administration is concerned.
The refusal to process VAT refunds is downright illegal and totally dishonest. It is not the government’s money but amounts already paid upfront on the business inputs. Let the DLP administration do something about the millions collected from innocent customers by the crooked business persons who blatantly and fraudulently refuse to pay over to the VAT office as required by law.
Tell Chris Sinckler to stop meddling in the enforcement exercises of the VAT office but instead haul the crooks before the courts so we will know who these thieving business persons are that stole our tax dollars.
We don’t want to hear any 14 years OSA crap from you on this one, ac! You keep trying to justify bending the rules and flagrantly breaking the law as long as the DLP is running the show. And you claim your husband is an upright and honourable lawyer. What a laugh!
@ Observing(…) | November 4, 2012 at 11:31 AM |
“I think B’dos deserves one decent debate on the competing economic visions and philosophies.”
I too would like to see such! A debate between Mia Mottley and Chris Sinckler; but without reading from a prepared speech. Chris is very poor when it comes finance and economic matters when having to speak ad-lib or on his feet. He waffles and resorts to bullshit and meaningless numbers.
The only problem here is that Mia might let him off the hook when he lies.
He is definitely a square bullshit peg in a round finance hole. Finance is one area where bullshitting is not a strong point or recommended as a strategy in argument and debate. Just listen to Mr. Physical Deficit Jepter Ince!
Politics now is about people getting an opportunity to make money not about Serving the Public. A lot of poor ‘black boys see it as an opportunity to make money and get ahead and this comes with strings attached and long strings to some individuals too. One obviously black Minister, I understand, has 17 million dollars in an overseas bank account—in 4 years of GOVERNANCE——Ha Huh !
@miller
Last elections it was the BLP that ran from debate. Let’s see if we can at least get one this cycle…could you imagine Freundel vs. Owen? Or Mia vs. Chris? Or God forbid Jepter vs. Mascoll? Murda.
The depth of the two teams though is worrying. Apart from 4 maybe 5 names we have a group of politicians who are out of their league in terms of competence, communication, and capability.
Just observing
I maybe missing something but Owen never set a timeline to rollback the 2.5% VAT increase but everyone assume it would be immediately after an election win. I think he did reverse the 8% pay cut but it was years after their first election win
@JahArmy
The BLP 15 point plan is suppose to be implemented by 2016. The issue will always be how can an Opposition promise anything if it is not fully apprised of the state of the treasury?
You guys are so ready to attack where did i say that the govt should not paythe refunds .stuepsee
@ Anthony
Thankyou very much for the link which confirms my understanding of what you said earlier and, indeed, the feedback I’ve had from one businessman who imports regularly for commercial purposes. It still seems odd though….that you can have a tax on taxes….don’t you think?
OSA nobrolling back nutting. man can,t be trusted he need to produce the 100million he claimed he saved for a rainy day
@ ac | November 4, 2012 at 12:47 PM |
“You guys are so ready to attack where did i say that the govt should not paythe refunds .”
So what are you saying then ac? That government must prioritize its commitments? Fine! So why didn’t the same commitment to national service and sacrifice you are calling for apply in the case of the Alexandra School Inquiry? Why was there haste to pay these specially selected lawyers? Why wasn’t there a call from you for the lawyers to work pro bono or at reduced rates in the interest of the nation? Why didn’t you ask Hal Gollop to do his civic and moral high-horse duty since he was about to submit his invoices to the struggling BWA for $1.5 million?
Why didn’t you tell Darcy Boyce not to demand $40 million of taxpayers’ money for the airbrushing redesign of the Pierhead marina project? $40 million that found itself in the offshore account in a St. Lucia IBC?
Why didn’t you ask Mr. Lashes the man who planted much stone and wood around Barbados to stop the laundering of $17 million which has found its way to an offshore account that will soon be frozen since he will be unable to leave Barbados to access?
@ old onion bag
I went looking at retirement homes last week. However, I like to plan ahead – I am not there yet!
You started out talking about the low “Foreign Reserves”, and then try to link this to the “increased” VAT revenues. I don’t see where the two are related. An increase in VAT will not increase foreign reserves unless the government busy such on the money market.
I pay my VAT in local dinero. Remittances are in foreign currencies.
@Hants
I am disappointed in Hamilton as well. His new cars are definitely not as good. He had a stirling career with Mclaren and he ups and leaves. However, he was warned by McLaren’s people that he was making a mistake.
Both parties have reneged on promises and this is why we are having the current debate. How do we hold our political parties accountable. Anybody who believes one of the parties is more virtuous than the other needs their head examined. The reality of parliamentary politics is that an opposition parties only will know the state of the treasure when they assume office. It is the great anomaly which an expectant electorate perennially fails to grasp.
On 4 November 2012 17:46, Barbados Underground
@ robert ross
I think it counter productive. Vat compounds from first landing till it reach the consumer but what can we do about it now ?
All are welcome to the DLP meeting this evening at Foundation School.
@Pat,
I am not disappointed in Lewis Hamilton. I am disappointed that he did not finish.
It is not his fault that McLaren engineers keep making mistakes.
He has made the right move to leave.
I cant understand how some people let the barbados Labour Party fool them time and again.
The Barbados Labour Party was to roll back the Amendments to constitution of 1973, they have been in office many times since with no roll back.
The Barbados Labour Party was to privatise CBC when they came to power in the early nineties. Never did.
The Barbados Labour Party was to modernise the Libel laws when they came to power in the early nineties, never did.
The Barbados Labour Party was to issued additional TV licences when they came to power in the early nineties. Never did.
David “The issue will always be how can an Opposition promise anything if it is not fully apprised of the state of the treasury?”
I don’t believe that. The BLP know what they left and Government spending information is public knowledge.
They can’t be so stupid not to “do the math”
As you know David tiefing is not done by taking cash out of the treasury.
It COULD be done by using foreign contractors for “big projects and cost overruns is the slush fund for deposits in Miami, New York, Toronto and places unknown.
@ David:
What you are saying makes practical sense. The current Opposition except for Owen Arthur’s short period as leader in the 1991-94 session was never “trained’ in the art of opposition politics.
The current DLP administration on the other hand had plenty of time to perfect the craft. Presumably they have learnt their lesson of making unrealistic promises when in opposition as was done in the January 2008 elections and permanently recorded in the DLP manifesto and forever etched in the annals of political unrealism and opportunism.
We will await the coming manifestoes and rate them against the test of economic realities.
BTW, do you think any of the parties will have the guts to make written promises of integrity legislation and freedom of information again?
We notice the rather poor journalism being displayed when the PM speaks and being interviewed by the timid mediocre press on the current campaign trail. Is the press only interested in scandal and hearsay?
Why isn’t he being asked if the international recession is also responsible for the breaking of his promise of enacting Integrity and FoI legislation in the current life of this parliament?
Keep quiet, Kerry!!!
@Miller
Leadership does not require popularity. The BLP has the opportunity to snatch the transparency legislation debate from the government who obviously lacks the will enact it. The challenge for the BLP is that Mia is the only BLPite who has the bank balance not to care about amassing personal wealth.
We need to have an honest debate about the prospects and options for our economy without the political posturing and gamesmanship. It is obvious to a blind man that government expenditure must be trimmed if we are to see our way out of this crisis.
A policy of over-taxation in order to control consumer spending on foreign goods and therefore protect our foreign reserves is short-sighted and is demonstrably not working. Just look at our foreign reserves leakage over the last four years, despite the government’s tax policy.
The best way forward will must include a mix of policies including reduction of public expenditure, tax reduction to stimulate the economy and the rekindling of the productive sectors. There must also be encouragement of import substitution with a special emphasis on agriculture. Perhaps we need also to look at again our offshore oil assets.
This requires national consensus, but these issues (especially cutting public expenditure) must be depoliticised if there is to be significant “buy-in” on the part of the public. I am sure that if called upon, the public as well as all the civil institutions, the private sector, labour and the political parties could come up with many creative and amazing solutions to our problems. Ordinary, simple people may very well come up with the best ideas.
What is needed, though, is governmental leadership towards these ends; something that is sorely lacking at the moment.
@ Anthony | November 4, 2012 at 2:12 PM |
“I think it counter productive. Vat compounds from first landing till it reach the consumer but what can we do about it now?”
I beg to disagree with you, Anthony.
VAT is a tax on the final total cost plus mark-up to the consumer. Unless other duties and taxes are eliminated they will and must be included in the final price to the consumer before the imposition of the VAT. What the importer pays at the port of entry is the input VAT on purchases which by definition must include all costs and charges up to the point of delivery to the warehouse; (treatment of transportation or inward freight can be debated but the associated VAT will be treated as input VAT). The importer is allowed to claim back any input VAT so as to avoid the burden but only if the business is VAT registered. Even if the business is not registered or the imported product does not qualify for input tax treatment then the business will pass on the un-reclaimable tax to the consumer in the final selling price.
Whichever method or view you adopt the duties and taxes will attract VAT at any stage if the VAT mechanism or machinery is to remain efficient.
What do you say, Anthony?
@davidb
Well said
@david
The blp has already sounded the trumpets of good governance and freedom of information. Almost farcical considering their last 4 years but unbelievably plausible given the DLP’s inaction and emepty rhetoric. Go figure.
@DavidB
What do you mean stimulating the economy?
Do you mean creating forex generating projects?
Remember it is about sustainability.
millertheanunnaki wrote “Why isn’t he being asked if the international recession is also responsible for the breaking of his promise of enacting Integrity and FoI legislation in the current life of this parliament?”
When did PM Freundel Stuart mke thiat promise?
@ miller
I mean in term of componding for consumer. If it pass thru 3 entities. each entitiy has its markup and charge the other vat. that mean vat value is compounded with the markup. In the end companies may pay very little vat due to input and output level but consumer get the markup + compounded vat.
@ miller
what haste in the alexander . it took almost 12 years to bring the AX problem to an inquiry . What haste !stupese………….and the other questions i will ignore since you have a way of being disingenuous in about everything to make a point
@ DavidB | November 4, 2012 at 2:45 PM |
“The best way forward will must include a mix of policies including reduction of public expenditure, tax reduction to stimulate the economy and the rekindling of the productive sectors.”
So let’s continue the debate. Are you implying that privatization of most state enterprises is a ‘sine qua non’ in order to achieve that necessary objective so clearly identified and eloquently put by you?
“Perhaps we need also to look at again our offshore oil assets.”
This no longer on the cards. Leave the little reserve of exceedingly heavy crude where it is. Why disturb an old carbon sink? The releasing of the genie out of the offshore bottle will only spell unimaginable socio-economic and environmental problems for this country.
In any event, who will invest in offshore drilling for very heavy crude that can only be processed offshore as fuel oil some of which will be re-imported at world market prices? Where is the profit incentive when there is an overabundance of light crude oil on the world market?
Do we intend to continue burning fossil fuels for our electricity needs? Isn’t this in contradiction to the government’s policy of renewable and alternative energy solutions to our energy requirements? What about it’s much touted ‘greening’ credentials?
millertheanunnaki wrote “Do we intend to continue burning fossil fuels for our electricity needs?.”
Solar powered will be introduced to Barbados by a friend of a friend of the Owner’s of Emera.
Trust me. It is the Canadian way
@Hants
The Trinis have a foot in already!
http://www.caribbean360.com/news/barbados_news/627713.html
@ Hants | November 4, 2012 at 2:56 PM |
“When did PM Freundel Stuart mke thiat promise?”
Hants, PM Freundel Stuart took over the mandate given to the DLP in January 2008 under the leadership of David Thompson. Included in the mandate given to the DLP by the people was the required provision to enact Integrity and FoI legislation. He, Freundel Stuart, by his own actions has acquiesced to the mandate and has taken ownership by his own refusal to call early elections after succeeding DT.
Moreover it was just a few months ago the PM was quizzed on the same matter and he made it crystal clear that Integrity Legislation will be debated and passed by Parliament before the end of this sitting of Parliament.
And Hants, David BU can attest to this promise made by the PM. This not the miller speaking out of his ascribed” BLP mouth” and much maligned on this blog. This is straight from the mouth of the then sleeping Integrity Giant himself. Why do you think he is so aptly called Mr. Integrity from Molasses Hill?
@Miller
You are correct.
http://www.caribbeanelections.com/barbados/resources/manifesto_dlp_08/manifesto_dlp_08.pdf
Page 26 in the pdf, 48 in real document
“Immediately introduce integrity legislation
requiring
• a declaration of assets by public officials,
• a Code of Conduct for Ministers,
• a new Freedom of Information law,
• amendments to the Defamation laws and
• new constitutional provisions to rationalise
the powers of the Prime Minister.”
I think we long gone past immediately.
@ Hants | November 4, 2012 at 3:25 PM |
“Solar powered will be introduced to Barbados by a friend of a friend of the Owner’s of Emera. Trust me. It is the Canadian way”
Stop talking nonsense, Hants! So what will they do with their recently acquired $380 million or so massive investment in a generation plant dependent on imported fossil fuels? Treat it as a tax write-off against whose income for Revenue Canada to allow?
@Miller
If EMERA has this technology in house already ie receiving power into their grid why would they not retrofit their plant to align with emerging technology?
@anthony 4:10
what was amazing was that it was claimed that the EXISTING code of conduct for parliamentarians was enough. Nothing else needed.
@David 4:35
is it in their best interests or profit generating?
@miller
The dlp have hung themselves on FOI and IL. There’re many other pieces of rope but those two are some of the thickest. Unbelievably the “allegedly corrupt” BLP will ride in and proclaim that they will “save the day” by enacting it. Poor politics on the DLP side.
Just observing
@ Miller and Anthony
I accept the idea that in commercial sales ‘value’ will be determined by the expense incurred in importing goods including ‘ancillary’ taxes. There will thus be a knock-on affect to the consumer. And yes, VAT may be reclaimed. But what of the ordinary fella – me, you – who import for personal consumption only. There is no ‘added value’ as a consequence of additional tax expenses – only added losses. Until someone says to me ‘Oh it’s section something or other of the so-and-so Act the ghost of the Great Case of Ship money will ever rear its head.
It all reminds me of the Occupational Pension Benefits Act where government insisted that only 25% of a pension lump sum could be paid as the result of the Act’s provisions and the remainder was to be put into an annuity – until a bright spark did some law with the Financial Services Commission which finally accepted (by public notice of 26 June) that all along they, and the Minister, had got it wrong.
@ Anthony | November 4, 2012 at 3:02 PM |
It is totally incompetently stupid for any government revenue and tax collection system to have an import duties and taxes system running along a VAT system. Except for high value luxury finished luxury goods like high end motor cars, alcohol, clothing and jewellery. To have this blatant distortion is to corrupt and promote the inefficiency of the VAT machinery and imposes an unjustifiable burden of the consumers and by extension the financially disadvantaged sections of the society.
If the Government is really concerned about the VAT burden on the poor then it needs to eliminate duties on all items except the excess duty on luxury items than can be called a Luxury Item Tax. In addition the government needs to enforce the provisions of the VAT legislation and prosecute those who continuously breach the regulations regarding correct application and timing of payment to the Central Revenue Authority of the tax taken from the same ‘poor’ people and others instead of fiddling with the rate of tax willy-nilly to misguidedly make up for shortfalls in projected revenues.
DLP meeting at Foundation School.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/dlpbarbados
@millertheanunnaki,
90% of what I write on BU is intended to be mildly provocative and a lot of it is off the cuff b e.
However, you should not presume that all of it is “nonsense”
millertheanunnaki wrote
“So what will they do with their recently acquired $380 million or so massive investment in a generation plant dependent on imported fossil fuels?”
That is a very good question. If it was in Ontario,Canada they would disassemble the equipment, put it on flat bed trailers and move it to a new location.
They could put it on a ship and send it to anywhere they need to.
Come to think of it they could ship equipment from Barbados to their next power plant in the Caribbean.
But doan mine me. I gine stop talkin nonsense before Bushie and GP come and put me in my intellectual place.
@ Anthony
Income since 2008 : 10.1 billion bds
Expense since 2008 : 13.4 billion bds
Net loss since 2008 : 3.4 billion bds
———–
Could you simplify it for us…Would you say $3.4 Billion loss ( expenditure over income) as a result of no in flows yet from WIP construction projects?… Or could it be considered as a result of less than astute money resources management or even over shooting budgets? How much of that expenses would you estimate went towards incomplete project?.
Your revenue from Vat $ 3.7 Bill….not to far from estimate $4 Bill nor my assessment of the dire financial position of $5.6 Bill to be accounted for
Loss……………………..$3.4 Billion
Interest payments…..$2.1 Billion,,,,,,,, (Dodds Prison loan and others)
Total……………………..$5.5 Billion
In the mist of all these monies collected from Vat… Is it possible to find out was BORROWED since 2008 would complete the picture, don’t you think?
Thanks for the stats supplied todate…..most informative.
To understand the need for VAT you really need to go back to the bad old days before 1997. We had different import taxes coming out of the “kazoo”. High customs duties on many items, a luxury tax, a consumption tax which climbed for about 4% in the late seventies to 21% by the time VAT was introduced. In many cases, these taxes amounted to well over 100% increase in the cost of many imported items. By introducing VAT, it was possible to remove all these differenet and difficult-to-collect taxes and levies and impose one tax to replace them. At the same time, most items had customs duties reduced to the Common External Tariff (CET) level of 20%. VAT had the advantage of being spread to every area of commercial activity, and therefore could be applied at a lower level than was being charged before. The other advantage was that it made commercial entities responsible for collecting and reporting the tax. The fact that many do not do so is not the fault of the tax, but the administration of it. A VAT audit is a very onerous thing for any small businessman, and often they are dealt with unfairly, whilst large and complicated businesses will never be audited because it’s just too difficult for the Customs VAT division to handle.
Finally, if and when VAT is reduced, don’t hold your collective breath waiting for a reduction in prices. The commercial sector in Barbados is well practiced in not passing-on such reductions. The only thing a reduction will stimulate is the bottom lines of the commercial sector.
@ Peltdownman | November 5, 2012 at 7:40 AM
“Finally, if and when VAT is reduced, don’t hold your collective breath waiting for a reduction in prices.”
So what are you implying here; that merchants will continue to charge VAT @17.5% instead of the reduced rate? Are you saying that so-called educated Bajan shoppers would look at their shopping bills and don’t realise that the merchants have not changed the rate of VAT?
What are saying here, man?
What I am saying is that, in many cases, the extra 2.5 % will be used to pad out the merchants’ bottom lines. They cannot continue to charge VAT at 17.5% – that would be illegal. It’s just that they will collect VAT at 15% but not reduce their prices accordingly. It happened when VAT was introduced in 1997 and it will most likely happen again.
@ Peltdownman | November 5, 2012 at 9:21 AM |
What you are saying does not make any sense so far. The reduction in the VAT rate does not affect the price charged by the merchant (actual selling price before VAT). It affects (reduces) the amount of tax to be collected by the merchant on behalf of government.
What could have happened with the introduction of the VAT in 1997 is that the other duties and taxes the VAT was designed to replace were indeed included in the old price build-up that determined the selling price to consumers. It is highly probable and I would agree with you that many merchants took advantage of consumers and refused to adjust their cost price accordingly when the duties and other taxes were eliminated.
They therefore went ahead and imposed the new VAT rate of 15% on the old selling prices without a commensurate downward adjustment in the price build up on any new inventories to reflect the fact that the old duties and taxes were no longer relevant or paid by the merchants.
A future change in the VAT rate will not be occurring in such a scenario.
Do you agree or are you calling the merchants a bunch of crooks? Those who collect VAT from consumers but refuse to pay it over to Government can be so aptly described but you can’t use a tar brush to paint the entire distribution and retail sector.
@Peltdownman
You are correct about merchant pricing approaches in Barbados. It is up to people to rise up. That time will come soon when the straw breaks the camel’s back.
@ Peltdownman
Surprisingly, it is more often than not the smaller business houses who are guilty immediately following…larger companies more follow after a lag….Here is where Min of Comm…Price Control Officers should be more proactive….policing mechanisms suck in BIM…..
I would appear that Miller just doesn’t understand what I have been stating. After VAT is reduced, the guilty merchants won’t be collecting 17.5% VAT, they will collecting 15% VAT, but their prices won’t be reduced to account for the reduction in tax. This is not illegal, it does not make them crooks, but it is par for the course in Barbados. I am not accusing the complete sector, I am just pointing out what happens in many cases, and it has happened in the past, because maximizing profits is every businessman’s job. Personally, because of this fact, I would rather see the extra 2.5% VAT retained by government and used to seriously upgrade this country’s attraction to potential visitors. I’m not holding my breath on that either!
@ Peltdownman | November 5, 2012 at 10:17 AM |
“After VAT is reduced, the guilty merchants won’t be collecting 17.5% VAT, they will collecting 15% VAT, but their prices won’t be reduced to account for the reduction in tax. This is not illegal, it does not make them crooks, but it is par for the course in Barbados.”
We are still at a loss here to appreciate the gist of your argument or assertion? Are you referring to the price charged by merchants before the imposition of the adjusted VAT rate or the price after the adjusted of the VAT rate.
Maybe from the illustration below you might be able to further enlighten us:
(1) Price structure under existing VAT rate:
Price of item before VAT: $10.00 (inclusive of merchants mark-up or profit margin)
VAT charged@ 17.5% $ 1.75
Total price $ 11.75 paid by consumer on shown on receipt
(2) Price structure under a reduced VAT rate:
Price of item before VAT: $10.00 (inclusive of merchants mark-up or profit margin)
VAT charged@ 15% $ 1.50
Total price $ 11.50 paid by consumer and shown on receipt
From the above how would the “crooked” merchant collect the reduced tax but the price to the consumer remains the same or increases unless the merchant increases the basic selling price of $10.00? If the price of the item is not controlled by the government can you tell us how you can stop the merchants from increasing their base prices in a ‘free market’ economy other than shopping at so-called honest merchant houses? “Caveat emptor’ is still the watchword for keen shoppers like you, peltdownman; even where there is another hoax in the making. But don’t blame the reduction in the VAT rate as the cause of the merchant’s gross dishonesty or abuse of the laws of supply and demand.
@Miller
You are over analyzing. All Peltdowman is saying is that merchants will retain price levels by padding the 2.5 % (if VAT is rolled back) in the mark-up.
@ David | November 5, 2012 at 11:37 AM |
So what will happen if the rate is increased to 20% as recommended by the IMF?
All you are saying is that the merchants in Barbados, by and large, are a group of rapacious, selfish and exploitative parasites with little or no concern for or commitment to the general society or country. Are you, now?
BTW, do you have access to a copy of the speech delivered by MoF Chris Sinckler to the BCCI luncheon in May 2011 and which Ms Mottley made reference to in her recent media conference?
@ Miller
OSA is asking the DLP politicians to declare their assets. OSA has been in politics for 30 years, why did he only declare his assets in 2008 when he had formally retired from party politics?
The assets declared from OSA includes the $75,000.00, seventy-five thousand dollars belonging to the BLP that ended up in his FCIB bank account?
@ ac = Oxford Direct
You still dodging and hiding….by the OSA Ghost following you all bout….. if you don’t even understand CIVICS….you cannot make worth while contributes in politics….wait wha OSA do you doa….what is you first name B?
@ Oxford Direct | November 5, 2012 at 12:15 PM |
OSA might be asking the DLP but what about the DLP promises to the nation in January 2008?
Well let me directly remind!
“The Democratic Labour Party will also:
Immediately introduce integrity legislation
requiring
• a declaration of assets by public officials,
• a Code of Conduct for Ministers,
• a new Freedom of Information law,
• amendments to the Defamation laws and
new constitutional provisions to rationalise
the powers of the Prime Minister.”
We don’t expect you to respond to this one. If you, do we will give you
$ 34 million plus $3.333 million plus interest as a gratuity for honouring your commitment and promises to the people.
@Miller
“All you are saying is that the merchants in Barbados, by and large, are a group of rapacious, selfish and exploitative parasites with little or no concern for or commitment to the general society or country. Are you, now?”
If the cap fits
@ Peltdownman | November 5, 2012 at 12:58 PM |
“If the cap fits”
There is some element of truth in that repartee.
Especially if you include the government in the mix through its ownership of the BNOC. Imagine charging electricity consumers, that is, all of us, world market prices plus mark-up plus taxes to charge VAT on fuel oil a third of which is from the local oil wells.
So the DLP proposal to lower the COL was just pie-in-the-sky hot air.
Oxford Direct | November 5, 2012 at 12:15 PM |
@ Miller
OSA is asking the DLP politicians to declare their assets. OSA has been in politics for 30 years, why did he only declare his assets in 2008 when he had formally retired from party politics?
The assets declared from OSA includes the $75,000.00, seventy-five thousand dollars belonging to the BLP that ended up in his FCIB bank account?
NONSENSE
NONSENSE
NONSENSE
LIES
LIES
LIES
STOP THE FOLLY
Anyone heard Kellman admit today that the energy prices help run NCO out of Barbados and that the offer of solar energy couldn’t sway the company? And again he spoke about increased exports…Jesus take the wheel.
The DLP is a bunch of clowns who don’t know what they are doing? But then again Fruendel admits that he was sleeping and now woke up but he like he gone back to sleep. There was a company that came to barbados in 2006 named Alpha making bottles. The company was run by bajans with support from head office in Puerto Rico. Alpha was exporting bottles to the entire caribbean and as far as Aruba. The company only had two customers in Barbados and was operating 7 days a week and doing good business exporting and bringing in foreign exchange. This cannot be disputed because the records are there at the BIDC for all to see. The price of electricity started to rise really high and in the company sought an audience with the DLP government in 2009 but got no response from anyone. After becoming fustrated the company packed up and moved out of Barbados. It is being said that the reason company got no response from the DLP government was because a former employer of a certain senator/minister was pushing the government not to offer any concessions as it related to the electricity to the bottle company because they wanted the bottle company to shut down and then they would apply to the DLP government to bring in their bottles from outside of Barbados duty free which would be cheaper than buying them in barbados. So to satisfy the greed of this beverage company no one met with the bottle company and hence ithe company close and instead of foreign exchange coming into the country by way of all the exports that this bottling company was doing we are now sending foreign exchange out to bring in bottle.
Shame on the sleeping giant and the DLP.
@ Enuff
Kellman is the one who said Manufacturing increased by 20 % in 6 mths…again we ask him manufacturing WHAT? …and where ?
Who else but Kellman like Hutson to run off annuda IBC …..NCO employed 1200+ bajans school leavers and has been here for 10 years……sleeping Kellman just lucky St.Lucy is ona DEM safe seats….the lil short man….really just likes to talk shoite on VOB and cause even the flyin fish to up and gone now….Kellman where D fish you promised us?
@ David
“David B
What do you mean stimulating the economy? Do you mean creating forex generating projects? Remember it is about sustainability.”
==============================
Of course it’s about sustainability, but it is also about doing in the short term what is needed to breathe life into the virtually dead economy.
The plan has to address short-term, medium-term and long-term growth.
The process need to be managed to avoid depleting the foreign reserves too quickly, as the longer term more sustainable actions are put in place.
@DavidB
You have identified the problem now unless you are Mascoll there are multiple suggestion how to fix it.
On 6 November 2012 01:03, Barbados Underground
@old onion bags,
Companies will move from Barbados to increase their profitability.
Cheap labour and freedom to hide profits is what these companies are looking for.
Do you know where the Prime Minister of Canada is?
@ miller
“So let’s continue the debate. Are you implying that privatization of most state enterprises is a ‘sine qua non’ in order to achieve that necessary objective so clearly identified and eloquently put by you?”
=======================
Where did I say most state enterprises would have to be privatized? Certainly, some will need to be privatized and maybe there can be private/public sector partnerships in the delivery of some services. Maybe we need to rethink the modalities of providing services that are now the domain (and responsibility) of the state.
My point is that we need to examine all the possibilities and models in our search for solutions; which no doubt will require compromises with which we shall all have to live.
My other main point is the lack of government leadership. There is a need for a broad social debate, not only on the blogs, but in town hall meetings and other public fora. The
BLP plans to have the town hall meetings, but those meetings could be more effective if they are not politically sponsored/motivated. But the government, as expected, has dropped the ball again.
Onions
Man for man Mr. Kellman is way ahead of Mascoll.
Mr. Kellman is a successful businessman. What is Mascoll success here in Barbados? He has a Master’s Degree and that is all about paper. He got involved with Hardwood Company and it boiled down to fraud.
Mascoll is basically a pompous man who wanted Owen Arthur to give him a constituency which fit his profile. What is that profile?
Mr. Kellman was in parliament through the bad times and good times of the DLP showing that he is a people’s person.
@Clone | November 5, 2012 at 9:44 PM |
Mr Kellman is a liar. And his assertions of 20 % increase in exports has been refuted by the Governor of the CBB.
Anything coming from Kellman’s mouth after that must be tainted with the untruth.
@davidb 9:03
Simple and straight to the point.
The Barbados Labour Party wants to treat Bajans as a Business, the Democratic Labour Party treats Bajans as Human Beings
Reject the Barbados Labour Party.
@ Clone
“Mr. Kellman is a successful businessman. What is Mascoll success here in Barbados? He has a Master’s Degree and that is all about paper. He got involved with Hardwood Company and it boiled down to fraud.”
You must be reminded that an audit into the operations of Hardwood Housing, done by none other than the Auditor General of Barbados, found no evidence of fraudulent activities. The fraud issue was raised by David Thompson, who himself was mentioned in a forensic audit into the operations of CLICO, as it relates to an unscrupulous transfer of funds (which in forensic auditing can be identified as FRAUD). The results of that report are available for all and sundry to peruse and come to some conclusion.
Could any one believe that given overall VAT receipts expanded by 7%….collections $3.7 Billion(Anthony)….regardless Debt increased by 8% ..again I await Anthony’s Figs..fine tuned….POINT is Why why why ?….so much collections $5 Billion and still more thru borrowing…
@Anthony
How much was owed before 2008 ?How much is our Debt todate..with thanks
Great website. Plenty of useful info here. I am sending it
to some friends ans additionally sharing in delicious.
And certainly, thank you for your effort!
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