Est.2007

Barbados Underground

Bringing News and Opinions to the People

Banner promoting anonymous crime reporting with a phone and contact number 1 800 TIPS (8477), featuring the Crime Stoppers logo and a QR code for submitting tips.

How Will Earthlings React To NOT Being Alone In The Galaxy?

← Back

Your message to the BLOGMASTER was sent

CONTACT THE BLOGMASTER ONLY

Submitted by Charles Knighton
NASA's Kepler space telescope discovers 5

In the time I have left on planet Earth, there are a few historic events I am counting on witnessing. World peace isn’t on the list, because I am not that naive; current indications point to a few centuries of additional slaughter. But I am increasingly optimistic that I will be around for the discovery of extraterrestrial life.

Last year, science took a cosmic leap toward that possibility, as astronomers used the Kepler space telescope to identify hundreds of planets around distant suns, including some where temperatures are just right for liquid water and, presumably, life. Astrobiologists will be training radio telescopes on these temperate, Earth-like planets this year.

Our galaxy we now know, is teeming with planets—millions of them. Our solar system is not unique. And how will our species react when confronted with proof that life has arisen elsewhere, whether in the form of bacteria, bugs, or intelligent beings? It will be profoundly disorienting — as disorienting as the discovery of the New World.

Perhaps this humbling new perspective will bring human beings together, as we see the relative unimportance of differences in skin colour, nationality, and religion. Or people might react to their demotion from creation’s centre with a frightened backlash, as they did in the times of Galileo and of Darwin. Perhaps we will be in an uproar for a few months, and then go back to petty bickering, war, reality TV, Facebook and sports. While I can’t speak for anyone else, I’d like to stick around long enough to find out.

Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

61 responses to “How Will Earthlings React To NOT Being Alone In The Galaxy?”

  1. Kammie Holder Avatar
    Kammie Holder

    Earthlings will regret seeking out aliens. Just as Columbus visited the West Indies and claim he discovered it on brhal of the Queen, will we discover in peace. Who say that such other life forms will be carbon form and not single celled? The more we understand the more the more we don’t understand.

  2. ac Avatar
    ac

    just look at the way we treat our own their in lies the answer!

  3. islandgal246 Avatar
    islandgal246

    Mankind will NEVER change, he is a warlike being. He has made war for many reasons, for sovereign supremacy, for religious superiority, for racial superiority and for financial superiority.

    If ever mankind was to discover that another Terra Nova exists he would declare war on them like he did when he invaded and conquered other lands as told by history. Man has been taught and indoctrinated that he has to be a warrior and there is no other way. Mankind will continue on his self destructive path until he discovers that the hunter will become the hunted one day.

  4. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    What does the Bible say about intelligent life on other planets?

    Based on the logical principle of systematic consistency, across the entire range of human existence on earth, starting with Almighty God’s Genesis account of ALL creation, including His prime creation, Mankind, and all that followed the FALL, wilfull, volitional, act of disobedience, which brought SIN* into humanity, the historical veracity, validated by evidence, facts, confirming coherently, exactly what God’s Word the Bible recorded and foretold would follow, up to this present era, End-Times, the brief, but concise article below, summarizes this question of extraterrestrial beings adequately.

    “The question of UFO’s and intelligent life on other planets has become very popular. Many fashionable scientists speculate about the possibilities, insisting that we cannot be alone in the universe. Alien life is the subject of hit television shows and movies, and is also a common belief of many New Age religions. Many people have asked what the Bible has to say about this subject. The following article is an attempt to deal honestly and simply with this subject and to answer the question in an easily understood manner. It is not meant to be an exhaustive or comprehensive theological treatise.”

    “The Scriptures do not directly address the question of alien beings. The Bible does not explicitly confirm or deny the existence of intelligent life from other planets. Although the subject is not addressed explicitly, the Bible teaches implicitly that the only things He created with intelligence are the angels, man, and the animals.”

    “It is important to remember that the stars and planets were not created billions of years before Earth. According to the Bible, Earth is not the result of billions of years of stellar evolution during which many other planets were created. Earth was created before any other planet or star existed. Earth came into existence on the first day of Creation (Genesis 1:1). God withheld the creation of the Sun, Moon and stars until the fourth day (Genesis 1:14-19). Earth is unique and holds center stage in God’s Creation.”

    ” Furthermore, the Bible clearly indicates that the fate of the universe (every other planet and star) is forever linked to God’s timetable for mankind and the Earth. One day, Christ will return to Earth and complete the final act of man’s redemption (2 Peter 3:9-10). He will destroy this present universe and create a new heavens and Earth (2 Peter 3:7,10; Revelations 21:1). All the stars and planets will be destroyed, along with the Earth.”

    “What bearing does this have on the question of extraterrestrial life? The timetable (and the whole reason) for this destruction and re-creation clearly seems to be based on God’s plan for us Earthlings. If God had created intelligent life on other worlds, it is hard to imagine that their lives would be calibrated by the failures of Earth’s inhabitants. It seems unlikely and unfair that their distant planets would be destroyed by God because of His plan for Earth. The implication of Scripture is that there are no other intelligent beings besides man, animals, and the angels.”

    “Why will God destroy the planets and stars along with Earth? When Adam sinned, ALL of creation was affected—the entire universe. Romans 8:18-22 teaches that all “creation was subjected to futility.” Although we are all familiar with the fact that God made man the ruler of Earth (Genesis 1:28), Scripture suggests that even the heavens are subject to mankind.”

    “Thy heavens, the work of the Thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which Thou has ordained…Thou dost make him [man] to rule over the works of Thy hands, Thou has put all things under his feet” (Psalms 8:3,6).

    “And take heed, lest you lift your eyes to heaven, and when you see the sun, the moon, and the stars, all the host of heaven, you feel driven to worship them and serve them, which the Lord your God has given to all the peoples under the whole heaven as a heritage” (Deuteronomy 4:19).

    “Practical experience suggests that nothing in the universe is probably in its more perfect, originally created state. Earth is certainly no longer the paradise described in Genesis. Stars are dying. The moon and planets have been pummeled. It seems that everything in the universe will eventually wear out.”

    “Why would God create such a vast universe if it is only for those on the planet Earth? What purpose does the universe hold? Frankly, God has not revealed all the answers, but he has shared at least some of the reasons:”

    “LIGHT, TIME-KEEPING AND NAVIGATION. Scripture tells us that God created the Sun, Moon and stars to give light (brightening the utter darkness of the night sky) and to assist mankind (Genesis 1:14-15, etc.). That’s right, one of the reasons that God made the Moon, solar system and stars was to provide a way for us to distinguish the passage of time (days, months and years) and predict the coming of seasons. Without these heavenly bodies, the job of keeping time and navigation would have been far more difficult. We learn from history that from the earliest days, ancient peoples used the movement of stars in producing their calendars and finding their way across great distances, just as God designed from the beginning. It may be that even some migrating birds make use of the constellations.”

    “GLORIFYING THE CREATOR. Another purpose for the myriad of stars is to bring glory to God—focusing man’s attention on the Creator’s awesome power and greatness. Psalm 19:1 states,”

    “The heavens are telling of the glory of God; and their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.”

    “The vastness of the universe is a tremendous expression of God’s might and power. God is greater than we could ever imagine, even greater that His spectacular creation, the universe. Psalm 8:1,3,9 states,”

    “O Lord, our Lord, How majestic is Thy name in all the earth, Who hast displayed Thy splendor above the heavens! …When I consider Thy heavens, the work of Thy fingers, The moon and the stars, which Thou has ordained; …O Lord, our Lord, How majestic is Thy name in all the earth!”

    “When we consider the vastness of the universe, let us meditate upon the glory of God, not on dreaming up fantasies of alien beings.”

    “The Bible does not teach that intelligent life exists elsewhere in our universe. Although our all-powerful God could have created such life had He desired, it seems rather obvious from Scripture that He did not. The timetable for this present universe is measured by God’s dealings with us. It appears that God has created the human race, on the planet called Earth, as the sole beneficiary of His fellowship. This fellowship is of such a unique design that we are told that God’s only true extra-terrestrial creations—angels—are eager to observe it in action. It is our privilege to be the center of attention in our vast and wonder-filled universe.”

  5. islandgal246 Avatar
    islandgal246

    Geeze…Zoe you had to come here and spoil everything….STUPSE

  6. David Avatar
    David

    @islandgal

    Accept that you and Zoe are not ‘evenly yoked’ but also accept that we have many like Zoe who believe in a God and therefore are free to share a perspective on the matter under discussion 🙂

  7. Smooth Chocolate Avatar
    Smooth Chocolate

    if they were other beings out their, we would know by now. i go by one statement in Genesis. God created the stars to give light to the earth. nothing in God’s word suggest that they are other beings, what it suggests is that the earth is to God the most important planet in the heavens. all this UFO sightings is the work of beings from another dimension not another planet – that would be satan, the fallen angel and his army, who go all out to prove that they DO NOT exists but that other life forms do.

  8. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Zoe | January 7, 2012 at 8:41 AM |
    “Earth was created before any other planet or star existed. Earth came into existence on the first day of Creation (Genesis 1:1). God withheld the creation of the Sun, Moon and stars until the fourth day (Genesis 1:14-19). Earth is unique and holds center stage in God’s Creation.”

    What a load of codswallop! If you believe that you could as well believe that the Sun orbits Earth and that Earth is the centre of the Universe around which everything revolves!
    Zoe, I thought that from your recent posts regarding the role of the Sun in Earth’s existence and mankind’s religions you would be a bit more, should we say, “scientific” in your comments here. But then again you can’t teach an old “fundamentalist religious bigot truths and facts.

    You better accept that that “aliens” exist. Ask the Anunnaki who, according to your story book of myths and legends, genetically modified your species to upgrade you from ape to looking and behaving in their own image. “Let us make man in our own image” in order to “ape” us and be a bit more technologically advanced than their monkey brothers with whom they share in excess of 95% DNA similarities.

  9. Moneybrain Avatar
    Moneybrain

    GOD is an EXTRATERRESTRIAL! Why do Angels always come from heaven? Where is heaven but UP. Why did Elijah and Ezekiel disappear into what was obviously a space craft from the description given by primitive humans that witnessed the events?

    Why does the Bible constantly refer to super beings from the sky?
    Why does the Mahabharata describe wars in the sky and dog fights among flying vehicles thousands of years before humans developed powered flight.

    Why would God create BILLIONS of stars ie Suns just for navigation etc. The vast majority of the Universe can NOT be seen from Earth, even with modern telescopes. It stands to reason that there are thousands of “blue planets” capable of supporting biological life. Drake’s equation may not be accurate but surely steps in the right direction.

    95% of UFO and USO sightings (USOs are Unidentified Submerged Objects) are explicable BUT 5% have merit especially when seen by pilots, police etc who have knowledge of phenomena and most importantly have much to lose in terms of respect and credibility. eg JAL pilot who saw the giant “walnut” UFO (4x the size of the 747) over Alaska which was seen on radar at Anchorage, the smaller saucers came to a stop feet from the 747 windshield while the 747 was cruising at 575mph”!

    Earthlings will have a rude awakening as to GOD’s true identity and many “believers” will need to reassess their faith. Religion has been used for thousands of years to OPPRESS and CONTROL Earthlings. Please note that the “church” was insisting that the Sun went around the Earth and that the Earth was flat more than 1500yrs after the Greeks had rationalised that the these concepts were nonsense. The people running “churches” are very prone to wanting and worshiping MONEY and POWER!

    Based on our knowledge of human behaviour we should be very skeptical of any Alien specie coming to Earth because there is a high probability that they are up to no good (looking for slave labour etc) or want certain resources like gold, lithium etc.

    Naturally if they are sent by the true God creator then maybe we would be in for the thousand years of peace mentioned in the Bible.

    Personally, I am very keen to learn much more about the real origins of the Earth and Cosmos, religion, origins of mankind etc.

  10. kiki Avatar
    kiki

    some good shit

  11. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Moneybrain | January 7, 2012 at 11:12 AM |

    One notes that your brain is opening and not so much your wallet.
    There is much more in stock. You have just finished Book 1 now onto Book 2 and try to decipher the “Genesis” story as NOT told by Zoe!

  12. ac Avatar
    ac

    “stars die” if Zoe would take his head out of the bible for a split second he would understand why stars die .stars played a very important role in the formation of life and their death is highly significant in order for life to exist.without their they would be no life

  13. Moneybrain Avatar
    Moneybrain

    @M A
    While it is true that my brain is densely packed with neurons etc, I have always been “open” to alternative thinking on a vast array of topics.
    My view has always been that God, Nature or whatever intends for us to question everything and indeed I named my son Thomas because I want him to be intellectually skeptical as a starting point in any and all endeavors. Fortunately he is! Indeed to the point of pissing off his Profs who have bought into others BS!

  14. Ph.D Avatar
    Ph.D

    Mr . MLnuki , been a long time. However can you explain to me in scientific terms where the similarities in DNA between man and monkey lie?. Now we can have a real discussion.

    To all you non beleivers and evolutionists( and I am very glad that MLK used this comparison ), such a random happening as the human being evolving into what we are today ,14 billion years after the big bang, is as likely as placing 100 million monkeys in front of 100 million typewriters, and if it were possible , give them a 100 million years, and at the end expect that one of them will successfully produce the completed text of Macbeth or Hamlet. Yet when you pick up any one of those exceptional pieces , you don’t automatically think ,’ This monkey did a brilliant job.’ FANTASTIC. Someone had to CREATE the story from the very beginning.
    Blessings for the new year.

  15. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Ph.D | January 7, 2012 at 4:11 PM |
    Welcome back, Prof!
    It seems only a topic of such galactic size and import could cajole from your hibernation. All the best for the new year! The year of the dragon or should we say, the sky serpent?) is expected to be full of surprises for earthlings.

    But to address your query of similarities between man the primate and the ape. It’s called the “ESAF” strands. The divergence was caused by the genetic manipulation of the ape man by the Anunnaki to elevate him to a higher level of spiritual as opposed to carnal consciousness (becoming aware of the “fruits” from the tree of knowledge). Hence man being able to imagine, draw, write, read (literature like Shakespeare) but most of all mathematics and astronomy. But you already know this. It’s all set out in your story book of genesis poorly copied and tailored from earlier Sumerian texts.

  16. Random Thoughts Avatar
    Random Thoughts

    Quoting Charles Knighton “How Will Earthlings React To NOT Being Alone In The Galaxy?”

    But earthlings have always know that we are not alone. We have always had the company of gods and devils, angels and sprites fairies and jumbies, baccu men and soucayants.

    Alone what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    We have never been alone.

    We will never be alone.

  17. Hawkeye Avatar
    Hawkeye

    Thanks to everybody here for a very interesting discussion.

    If something created everything, we are part of that creation. A very small part. If we are the only beings in the universe who think and care, then it’s up to us to make a good life for all of us. So far, we’re failing. Nothing can save us. All we have is us.

  18. JUST ASKING Avatar
    JUST ASKING

    WHAT mumbo jumbo crapaud back is this ??

  19. islandgal246 Avatar
    islandgal246

    JUST ASKING | January 7, 2012 at 7:51 PM |

    “WHAT mumbo jumbo crapaud back is this ??”

    The crapaud back mumbo jumbo that is coming out of your mouth! This way above your head so KINDLY BUTT OUT!

  20. David Avatar
    David

    To the scientists among us what tangible evidence do we have that extraterrestrial lifeforms exist(ed)?

    So far we know that atmospheric conditions on some planets might have sustained to lifeforms. Can we deal in the empiricals or is it another case of a leap of faith required?

  21. JUST ASKING Avatar
    JUST ASKING

    DONT you know that the more we learn ; the less we know ???

  22. David Avatar
    David

    @JUST ASKING

    If you are not going to add value to the conversation why comment?

  23. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    @Anunnaki, Monkey-Man (Lol!) like the Evolutionary idiots, like you still are one of those 100 Millions Monkeys typing on 100 Millions typwriters, trying to get the FIRST word in Macbeth right, or maybe, you are just a Bananna, cause the DNA in such fruit is also similiar to the human DNA!

    Uncommon descent, BUT, One, Absolute, Almighty Creator, who Created EACH after its own kind.

    What utter Hogwash these Evo Mat scientists, and these alienated* ALIEN Anunnaki fools, believe in, absolutely NO valid, sound, coherent, sensible, scientific evidence whatsoever

    A shrinking date for ‘Eve’
    by Carl Wieland

    Most creationists will have by now heard of the ‘mitochondrial Eve’ hypothesis, the finding that all modern humans can be traced back to one woman. Some recent findings on when ‘Eve’ is supposed to have lived are very encouraging for creationists. But first we should review a few things, and hopefully sweep away some common misunderstandings.

    Evolutionists do not claim, nor can it be fairly stated, that this evidence proves that there was only one woman alive at any point in the past. Holders to the ‘Eve’ theory certainly insist that all modern humans are indeed descended from one woman. However, they believe that there were other women present at the time, and that any of these other women could have contributed DNA information to our present gene pool of humanity. How does this apparent contradiction come about?

    The answer lies in the fact that while we all inherit our usual complement of (nuclear) DNA from both mother and father, we only inherit mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) from our mother. Think of it like a surname, only related to the opposite sex. In our society, we inherit our surname only from our father. A surname can become ‘extinct’ without implying that all the people in a line have died out—all it takes is for there to be only female descendants at any level.

    In the same way, if a line of descent in a human population has only males at one point, then that line ‘dies out’ as far as its ‘mitochondrial signature’ is concerned, i.e., nuclear DNA is still passed on, but not mtDNA. To make it easier to understand, let’s return to the surname analogy (then later just substitute females for males). Imagine that an island is colonised by four couples, each with the first names Harry and Sally, but with four different surnames: Smith, Jones, Brown and White. In due course the population grows, with each generation marrying only among any of the other surnames available. It is very easy to set up a simple computer simulation to show how readily a surname can ‘die out’ with a line ending in only daughters. In due course, all the people on that island could end up with one surname only—say Smith. (Something like this happened on Pitcairn Island. Of the nine Bounty mutineers, six families settled the island in 1790. Of those six names [Christian, Young, Adams, McCoy, Quintal, Mills] only the first two have survived, even though Christian and Young were not the only ‘founding fathers’ to contribute genes to the island’s current small population. And some names have been ‘added’ from outside male settlers in the interim.) This is only probable where there is only a small number of surnames initially, i.e., a small original population; if the number of surnames is too large, it becomes very improbable for it to narrow down to only one or two.

    In one sense it could be said that ‘Harry Smith’ is the ‘father of all on the island’. Yet this does not imply that Harry Jones, for example, is not the ancestor of any of them. Harry Jones could very well have contributed nuclear DNA to any of today’s islanders, without being their ‘surname ancestor’.

    Let’s say you are a researcher investigating this particular island, without the benefit of any written records. You notice that all people on the island today are named Smith. Now this could be for two reasons:

    1.Because there really was only one couple that colonised the island in the beginning, called ‘Smith’, or

    2.There was only a small number of surnames on the islands to begin with, and the other surnames became extinct.
    Returning to the ‘Eve’ debate, it is clear from the above example (by just swapping the sexes around) that the evidence from mtDNA, which has suggested that all modern humans come from one woman, can mean one of two things.

    1.There really was only one couple in the beginning—i.e, mitochondrial Eve could be the real (biblical) Eve, or:

    2.All modern humans are descended from only a small population existing at one time. The other ‘mitochondrial lines’ (from the other females living alongside the one whose mitochondrial ‘surname’ is found in all populations today) have become extinct whenever a line had no female offspring. ‘Mitochondrial Eve’ is the only one of the original population in whose offspring there has been a continuous supply of female descendants in each generation. Any of the other women living alongside her could have contributed nuclear DNA to today’s populations, via their sons.

    I trust the analogy is clear. The mitochondrial Eve data does not force the belief that there was only one woman from whom we all descended—in other words, it doesn’t prove the Bible—but—a very important ‘but’—it is most definitely consistent with it. In other words, had there been more than one mitochondrial ‘surname’, it would have been a severe challenge to the biblical scenario. And it was not something that was expected by evolutionists. To explain it in their scenario requires a small population of modern humans to arise in one part of the world (archaic humans having already evolved and spread across the globe), and from there, spread out to replace all the other less-evolved humans, so that we all descend from that small original population (the ‘out-of-Africa’ or ‘Noah’s Ark’ theory of human evolution).

    The biblical creationist would conclude that the one woman suggested by the mitochondrial data is almost certainly the real Eve.1

    When did ‘Eve’ live?

    Evolutionists, aware of the way in which the mitochondrial Eve discovery could be seen to have vindicated the Bible, have long countered by saying that their ‘Eve’ lived far too long ago to be the biblical Eve. How do they calculate this? The answer has to do with why this scenario came about in the first place. MtDNA is known to be much more transparent to selection than nuclear DNA. In other words, there are many places where a genetic ‘letter’ can be replaced with another by way of a mutational ‘copying mistake’ without causing any problems to the organism. Comparisons between various groups of people alive today can be made on the basis of the number of letters which are ‘different’, having been substituted by mutation. Modern humans were much closer to each other than standard evolutionary theory had predicted, hence the out-of-Africa theory.

    Evolutionists have guessed at when their mitochondrial Eve lived via the idea of the ‘molecular clock’—i.e., that there is a more or less fixed rate of mutational substitutions per year in any population. How do they know what this rate is—in other words, how is the ‘molecular clock’ calibrated? By using evolutionary assumptions about the timing of events based on their interpretation of the fossil record. For example, if it is believed that humans and baboons, for example, last shared a common ancestor ‘x’ years ago, and if the number of differences between baboon and human mtDNA is y, then the substitution rate per year is y/x. In this way, estimates of when ‘Eve’ lived have varied from as low as 70,000 to 800,000 years ago, more commonly in the range 200-250,000 years.

    It has recently been claimed that Neandertals were not direct human ancestors, but a different species in fact. This claim has been made on the basis of the number of substitutional differences in one stretch of mtDNA between that extracted from the one Neandertal ever tested and the average of today’s populations. In a consistent biblical model, there would be no ‘proto-humans’ having music, jewellery, trade, clothing, shelter, sophisticated hunting weapons and the like. ‘If he/she acts in so many respects like a human, he/she is a human’—and thus a descendant of Adam. Neandertals (some of whose physical traits can be found in some European populations) were not a different species (or a spiritless race not descended from Adam, as Rossists proclaim) but were post-Flood humans, representing a subset of the original gene pool broken up at Babel.

    Creationists have correctly countered both Eve’s ‘age’ and the Neandertal assertions by saying that the molecular clock calibrations are way off.2 Since, for example, the creationist’s (true) Eve lived only a few thousand years ago, the mutational substitutions in mtDNA must have happened at a much faster rate than assumed by evolutionists to date.

    Good news
    In fact, a number of recent studies on living populations have indeed come up with results which indicate a much higher rate of mutation in human mtDNA.3,4

    Although not all studies to date have found the same high rate, at least two studies, looking directly at substitutions occurring today, have found rates as much as 20 times higher than previously assumed.5 Studies on the bones of the last Tsar of Russia also showed that he, along with 10–20 % of the population, actually had at least 2 types of mtDNA, a condition called ‘heteroplasmy’, also caused by mutations.3 This, too, throws off the ‘molecular clock’ calibrations.

    According to one review of the data, these recent results would mean that mitochondrial Eve ‘lived about 6500 years ago—a figure clearly incompatible with current theories on human origins. Even if the last common mitochondrial ancestor is younger than the last common real ancestor, it remains enigmatic how the known distribution of human populations and genes could have arisen in the past few thousand years.’4

    The review in Science’s ‘Research News’ goes still further about Eve’s date, saying that ‘using the new clock, she would be a mere 6000 years old.’ The article says about one of the teams of scientists (the Parsons team5) that ‘evolutionary studies led them to expect about one mutation in 600 generations … they were “stunned” to find 10 base-pair changes, which gave them a rate of one mutation every 40 generations.’4

    Evolutionists have tried to evade the force of these results by countering that the high mutation rate only occurs in certain stretches of DNA called ‘hot spots’ and/or that the high (observed) rate causes back mutations which ‘erase’ the effects of this high rate. Therefore, conveniently, the rate is assumed to be high over a short timespan, but effectively low over a long timespan. However, this is special pleading to get out of a difficulty, and the burden of proof is on evolutionists to sustain the vast ages for ‘Eve’ in the face of these documented, modern-day mutation rates. These are indeed encouraging results for creationists. In summary:

    1.The mitochondrial Eve findings were, in the first instance, in line with biblically-based expectations; while not proving the biblical Eve, they were consistent with her reality, and were not predicted by evolutionary theory.

    2.The dates assigned to mitochondrial Eve were said by evolutionists to rule out the biblical Eve. But these dates were based upon ‘molecular clock’ assumptions, which were calibrated by evolutionary beliefs about when certain evolutionary events occurred, supposedly millions of years ago.

    3.When these assumed rates were checked out against the real world, preliminary results indicate that the mitochondrial ‘molecular clock’ is ticking at a much faster rate than evolutionists believed possible. If correct, it means that mitochondrial Eve lived 6,000 to 6,500 years ago, right in the ballpark for the true ‘mother of all living’ (Genesis 3:20).

    4.These real-time findings also seriously weaken the case from mitochondrial DNA which argued (erroneously) that Neandertals were not true humans.

    Further reading
    The Neutral Model of evolution and recent African origins
    Update: Mitochondrial Eve and biblical Eve are looking good: criticism of young age is premature
    References

    1.I say ‘almost certainly’ to cover the claim that she may have been one of the small post-Flood population, although I would not expect sufficient mtDNA divergence in the small number of generations between creation and the Flood. Return to text.
    2.Lubenow, M.L., 1998. Recovery of Neandertal mtDNA: an evaluation. Journal of Creation 12(1):87–97. Return to text.
    3.Loewe, L and Scherer, S. ‘Mitochondrial Eve: the plot thickens.’ Trends in Ecology and Evolution, 12(11):422–423, November 1997. Return to text.
    4.Gibbons, A. ‘Calibrating the Mitochondrial Clock’. Science 279(5347):28–29, January 2, 1998. Return to text.
    5.Parsons, T.J. et al ‘A high observed substitution rate in the human mitochondrial DNA control region’, Nature Genetics Vol. 15: 363–368, 1997; as cited in ref. 4. Return to text.

  24. David Avatar
    David

    It would be great to get Micro Mock Engineer’s perspective on this submission.

    If he has recovered from the rum and coconut water that is 🙂

  25. ac Avatar
    ac

    so in the begining God created the earth but lo and behold scientist discovers that earth has a twin. some where in the darkness of night hidden away from man God keep this well kept secret alll to himself until scientist discovers it. Now are we going to still pretend that this vast and wide universe so much of which we don’t know was formed or created in 7 days with “A WORD”

  26. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Some more sound, true, scientific reasoning, to refute those ‘Baboonized’ Nuki/Raliens, and Evolutionary Monkey scientists.

    Adam, Eve and Noah vs Modern Genetics
    by Dr Robert W. Carter

    Published: 11 May 2010(GMT+10)

    The evolutionary map of world migrations is startlingly close to the biblical account of a single dispersal of people from Babel. The evolutionary “Out of Africa” theory tells us there was a single dispersal of people, centered near and travelling through the Middle East, with three main mitochondrial lineages, with people traveling in small groups into previously uninhabited territory, and that all of this occurred in the recent past. Every item in that list is something directly predicted by the Tower of Babel account in the Bible. (Image http://www.mitomap.org).

    It comes as a surprise to most people to hear that there is abundant evidence that the entire human race came from two people just a few thousand years ago (Adam and Eve), that there was a serious population crash (bottleneck) in the recent past (at the time of the Flood), and that there was a single dispersal of people across the world after that (the Tower of Babel).1 It surprises them even more to learn that much of this evidence comes from evolutionary scientists. In fact, an abundant testimony to biblical history has been uncovered by modern geneticists. It is there for anyone to see, if they know where to look!

    For our purposes, the most important places to look are in the Y chromosome (which is only found in males and which is passed on directly from father to son) and in the mitochondrial DNA (a small loop of DNA that we nearly always inherit from our mothers only; males do not pass it on to their children). These two pieces of DNA record some startling facts about our past.

    Over the last decade, a vast amount of information has been collected that allows us to answer questions that we could not even consider earlier. The tools of modern genetics allow us to specifically ask questions about history, for our genes carry a record that reflects where we came from and how we got to where we are. The tools at our disposal are powerful.

    Creation and genetics

    There are two brief passages in the Creation account we can use to draw some conclusions about human genetic history. Please note that we cannot use these verses for land animals (because we do not know how many of each kind were initially created) or any of the swimming critters (“with which the waters abounded”—Gen 1:21). These statements apply to people only:

    “And the Lord God formed man out of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being.” Gen 2:7
    “And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.” Gen 2:21–22

    These simple statements have profound implications. They put a limit on the amount of diversity we should find in people living today. The Bible clearly says the human race started out with two people only. But how different were these two people? There is an intriguing possibility that Eve was a clone of Adam. The science of cloning involves taking DNA from an organism and using it to manufacture an almost perfect copy of the original. Here, God is taking a piece of flesh, with cells, organelles, and, importantly, Adam’s DNA, and using it to manufacture a woman. Of course, she could not be a perfect clone, because she was a girl! But what if God had taken Adam’s genome and used it to manufacture Eve? All he would have had to do was to leave out Adam’s Y chromosome and double his X chromosome and, voilá, instant woman!

    I do not know if Eve was genetically identical to Adam. The only reason I bring this up is because we have two possibilities in our biblical model of human genetic history: one original genome or two. Either result is still vastly different from the most popular evolutionary models,2 but we need to discuss the range of possibilities that the Bible allows.

    Your genome is like an encyclopedia (almost literally). And, like an encyclopedia, the genome is broken down into volumes, called chromosomes, but you have two copies of each volume (with the exception of the X and Y chromosomes; women have two Xs but men have one X and one Y). Imagine comparing two duplicate volumes side by side and finding that one word in a particular sentence is spelled differently in each volume (perhaps “color” vs “colour”). Can you see that if Eve was a clone of Adam, there would have been, at most, two possible variants at any point in the genome? If Eve was not a clone, however, there would have been, at most, four possible variants at any point in the genome (because each of the original chromosomes came in four copies). This still allows for a lot of diversity overall, but it restricts the variation at any one spot to 2, 3, or 4 original readings.

    Does this fit the evidence? Absolutely! Most variable places in the genome come in two versions and these versions are spread out across the world. There are some highly variable places that seem to contradict this, but most of these are due to mutations that occurred in the different subpopulations after Babel.

    There are indications, however, that Eve may not have been a clone. The ABO blood group is a textbook example of a gene with more than two versions.3 There are three main versions of the blood type gene (A, B, and O). However, many, but not all, people with type O blood carry something that looks very much like a mutant A (the mutation prevents the manufacturing of the type A trait on the outside of cells). So here is a gene with more than two versions, but one of the main versions is clearly a mutation. This is true for many other genes, although, as usual, there are exceptions. The important take home point is that essentially all of the genetic variation among people today could have been carried within two people, if you discount mutations that occurred after our dispersion across the globe. This is a surprise to many.

    The Flood and genetics

    Like in the Creation story, there are only a few verses in the Flood account that help us with our model. But as seen before, these verses are profound.

    Like in the Creation story, there are only a few verses in the Flood account that help us with our model. But as seen before, these verses are profound. About 10 generations after Creation, a severe, short bottleneck occurred in the human population. From untold numbers of people, the entire world population was reduced to eight souls with only three reproducing couples.

    “So Noah, with his sons, his wife, and his sons’ wives, went into the ark because of the waters of the flood.” Gen 7:7
    “Now the sons of Noah who went out of the ark were Shem, Ham, and Japheth… These three were the sons of Noah, and from these the whole earth was populated.” Gen 9:18–19

    We can draw many important deductions from these statements. For instance, based on Genesis 7 and 9, how many Y chromosomes were on the Ark? The answer: one. Yes, there were four men, but Noah gave his Y chromosome to each of his sons. Unless there was a mutation (entirely possible), each of the sons carried the exact same Y chromosome. We do not know how much mutation occurred prior to the flood. With the long life spans of the antediluvian patriarchs, it may be reasonable to assume little mutation had taken place, but all of Creation, including the human genome, had been cursed, so it may not be wise to conclude that there was no mutation prior to the Flood. The amount of mutation may be a moot point, however, for, if it occurred, the Flood should have wiped out most traces of it (all of it in the case of the Y chromosome).

    How many mitochondrial DNA lineages were on the Ark? The answer: three. Yes, there were four women, but the Bible does not record Noah’s wife as having any children after the Flood (in this case, girl children). And notice the claim in Gen 9:19, “These three were the sons of Noah, and from these the whole earth was populated.” This is a strong indication that Noah’s wife did not contribute anything else to the world’s population. With no prohibition against sibling marriage, yet,4 one or more of the daughters-in-law may have been her daughter, but this does not change the fact that, at first glance, we expect a maximum of three mitochondrial lineages in the current world population. There is a chance that there will be less, if there was very little mutation before the Flood or if several of the daughters-in-law were closely related. At most, we do not expect more than four.

    How many X chromosome lineages were on the Ark? That depends. If you count it all up, you get eight. If, by chance, Noah’s wife passed on the same X chromosome to each of her three sons (25% probability), then there were seven. If Noah had a daughter after the Flood (not expected, but possible), there could be as many as nine X chromosome lineages. Either way, this is a considerable amount of genetic material. And since X chromosomes recombine (in females), we are potentially looking at a huge amount of genetic diversity within the X chromosomes of the world.

    Does this fit the evidence? Absolutely! It turns out that Y chromosomes are similar worldwide. According to the evolutionists, no “ancient” (i.e., highly mutated or highly divergent) Y chromosomes have been found.5 This serves as a bit of a puzzle to the evolutionist, and they have had to resort to calling for a higher “reproductive variance” among men than women, high rates of “gene conversion” in the Y chromosome, or perhaps a “selective sweep” that wiped out the other male lines.6 For the biblical model, it is a beautiful correlation and we can take it as is.

    The evidence from mitochondrial DNA fits our model just as neatly as the Y chromosome data. As it turns out, there are three main mitochondrial DNA lineages found across the world. The evolutionists have labeled these lines “M”, “N”, and “R”, so we’ll refer to them by the same names. They would not say these came off the Ark. They claim they were derived from older lines found in Africa, but this is based on a suite of assumptions (I discussed these in detail in a recent article in the Journal of Creation7). It also turns out that M, N, and R differ by only a few mutations. This gives us some indication of the amount of mutation that occurred in the generations prior to the Flood.

    Let’s assume ten female generations from Eve to the ladies on the Ark. M and N are separated by about 8 mutations (a small fraction of the 16,500 letters in the mitochondrial genome). R is only 1 mutation away from N. This is an indication of the mutational load that occurred before the Flood. Given the assumption that mutations occur at equal rates in all lines, about four mutations separate M and N each from Eve (maybe four mutations in each line in ten generations). But what about R? It is very similar to N. Were N and R sisters, or perhaps more closely related to each other than they were to M? We’ll never know, but it sure is fascinating to think about.

    One more line of evidence crops up in the amount of genetic diversity that has been found within people worldwide. Essentially, much less has been found than most (i.e., evolutionists!) predicted. The general lack of diversity among people is the reason the Out of Africa model has humanity going through a disastrous, near-extinction bottleneck with only about 10,000 (and perhaps as few as 1,000)8 people surviving. However, the reason for this lack of diversity is twofold. First, the human race started out with only two people. Second, the human race is not that old and has not accumulated a lot of mutations, despite the high mutation rate. Third, there actually was a bottleneck event, Noah’s Flood!

    The Tower of Babel and genetics

    The Tower of Babel has been a favorite bedtime story for generations. But is it more than a fairy tale? Could it be possible that there is evidence to back up this tale of rebellion and judgment? Like the Creation and Flood accounts, there are only a couple of verses that apply to our model of genetics. But, like the others, these verses are as profound as they are simple.

    “Now the whole earth had one language and one speech.” Gen 11:1
    “And they said, ‘Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top is in the heavens; let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.’” Gen 11:4

    It sounds like they were in a homogenous culture, but what do people in that situation do? Would you expect them to mix freely? Were language or cultural barriers present that would have prevented the sons of Shem from marrying the daughters of Japheth? Would the daughters of Ham be expected to marry freely with the sons of any of the three men? Note in Gen 11:4 that they knew about the potential for spreading out and getting separated from one another and intentionally did the opposite! However, this was against the express command of God, who had ordered them to spread out (to populate the earth). So, He took matters into His own hands.

    “’Come, let Us go down and confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.’ So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of all the earth, and they ceased building the city.” Gen 11:7–8

    There are tremendous implications that come from the Babel account. First it explains the amazing cultural connectivity of ancient peoples—like pyramid building, common flood legends, and ancient, non-Christian genealogies that link people back to biblical figures (e.g., many of the royal houses of pagan northern Europe go back to Japheth, the son of Noah9).

    The dramatic rise in world population over the past several decades is a well known fact. From a biblical perspective, the current human population easily fits into the standard model of population growth using very conservative parameters.10 In fact, starting with 6 people and doubling the population every 150 years more than accounts for the current human population (a growth rate of less than 0.5% per year!). Population size would have increased quickly given the rate at which the post-Flood population reestablished agriculture, animal husbandry, industry and civilization. So we must ask the question, “Why are there so few people in the world today?” The answer is that the world is young and we have not been here many thousands of years.

    When did the dispersion occur? Our best clue about the timing of the event comes from Genesis 10:25. In referencing the 5th generation descendent of Shem, a man named Peleg, it says, “in his days the earth was divided.”

    To what is this referring? Many people believe this is referring to a division of the landmasses (plate tectonics). This may be true, but it would require a huge amount of geologic activity after the Flood, and this would have occurred in historical times with no record of the events. The interpretation I favor is that this passage is referring to the division of people at Babel. Just a few verses after the Peleg reference, the section is summed up with another reference to the division at Babel. This fits both the context and the science. In context, Peleg was closely associated with Babel.

    How large was the population at the time? We would expect rapid population growth, but we cannot know exactly. There are 16 named sons born to the three brothers, Shem, Ham and Japheth. If we assume about the same number of daughters, Noah had on the order of 30 grandchildren. At that rate of growth, there would have been about 150 children in Salah’s generation, about 750 in Eber’s generation, and about 3,750 in Peleg’s generation. Of course, these generations overlap, etc., so let’s say there were between 1,000 and 10,000 people alive at the time of Babel. This fits nicely with the available data. It is a high rate of growth, but wars and disease had yet to start taking their toll.

    There is one more verse in this section that we need to discuss:

    “These were the families of the sons of Noah, according to their generations, in their nations; and from these the nations were divided on the earth after the flood.” Gen 10:32

    At Babel, God did not separate the nations according to language. He used language to separate them according to paternal (male) ancestry! This has monumental significance and is the key to understanding human genetic history.

    Do you see the implication in this simple verse? At Babel, God did not separate the nations according to language. He used language to separate them according to paternal (male) ancestry! This has monumental significance and is the key to understanding human genetic history. Paternal sorting would lead to specific Y chromosome lineages in different geographical locations. Since males and females from the three main families should have been freely intermixing prior to this, it also leads to a mixing of the mitochondrial lines. It is as if God put all the people into a giant spreadsheet and hit a button called “Sort According to Father.” He then took that list and used it to divide up and separate the nations.

    We already saw that Y chromosomes have little variation among them. We now add the fact that this little bit of variation is almost always geographically specific. That is, after the nations were separated according to Y chromosome, mutations occurred in the various lines. Since the lines were sent to specific geographical areas, the mutations are geographically specific. The current distribution of Y chromosome lines is a tremendous confirmation of the biblical model.

    Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) adds another confirmation. We have already learned that there are three main lineages of mtDNA. We now add the fact that these three lineages are more or less randomly distributed across the world. Also, the various mutations within each of the three main families of mtDNA are geographically specific as well.11 In other words, as the three mixed mitochondrial lines were carried along with the Y chromosome dispersal, each line in each area began to pick up new mutations, just like we would predict.

    After the Flood

    The last remaining significant reference in the Bible that will help us build our model of human genetic history is called The Table of Nations. It is found in Genesis chapters 9 and 10. The Table of Nations is a record of the post-Babel tribes, who they descended from, and where they went. If the Bible is an accurate source of history, one might expect to be able to find a significant amount of evidence for the Table of Nations in genetic data. The truth is not that simple, however, and it is important to keep several things in mind. First, the account was written by a person in the Middle East and from a Middle Eastern perspective. It is incomplete in that there are huge sections of the world that are not discussed (sub-Saharan Africa, Northern Europe, Most of Asia, Australia, the Americas, and Oceania). It also reflects a snapshot in time. It was written after the dispersion began, but not necessarily before the dispersion was complete. Indeed, much has changed in the intervening years. People groups have migrated, cultures have gone extinct, languages have changed, separate cultures have merged, etc. The history of man has been full of ebb and flow as people mixed or fought, resisted invasion or were conquered. The history of man since Babel is very complicated. Modern genetics can answer some of the big questions, but answers to many of the smaller details may elude us forever.

    This is an important topic for the creation model. The world does not look at the Bible in a favorable light. In fact, it disparages it, sometimes with open hostility. Attacks are often centered on the claim that the Bible is not reliable on historical grounds, and if the history of the Bible is inaccurate, what about the theology? Think about what Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3:12, “If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?” Many people today see no history in the Bible; therefore, the spiritual implications are meaningless to them. What would happen for evangelism if the history of the Bible turns out to be true after all?

    Related articles
    The Non-Mythical Adam and Eve! Refuting errors by Francis Collins and BioLogos
    Genetics: no friend of evolution
    The genetics of skin colour in people—something fishy?
    Professor of genetics says ‘No!’ to evolution
    Genetics and God’s natural selection
    One Blood: Chapter 3—Genetics and the human family
    Genetics and Biblical demographic events
    Corals, genes and creation
    Is there enough time in the Bible to account for all the human genetic diversity?

  27. David Avatar
    David

    Video tracks stricken Mars probeComments (59)
    The failed Russian Mars probe Phobos-Grunt has been pictured moving across the sky by the Paris-based amateur astronomer Thierry Legault.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16444063

  28. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    That the Bible, God’s divinely inspired Word, IS* antithetical to ALL other ancient religious text, as Dr. Livingston so aptly points out; BUT, this FACT is also supported by the historic RUINATION and utter demise of all these ancient pagan civilizations, whose ultimate failure, WAS, expressly because of FALSE, demonic gods, whereas God’s Word, the Bible, was an entirely counter revelation, to the Sumerian et al text, whose gross, crass IDOLATRY, was doomed to Almighty God judgment and ruination; and the absolute TRUTH of the Bible, continues to be vindicated, right up to this present time, as its prophetic pronouncements, unfold daily in this crumbling world scenario, exactly as HE* said it would.

    Correlating the Texts of Ancient Literature with the Old Testament

    by Dr. David Livingston

    What is the proper relationship of the literature (texts) of the Ancient Near East (hereafter, ANE) with the Old Testament? Many attempts have been made, and although much data and some admirable insights have been applied to the problem, we are not satisfied that we yet have the proper correlations.

    The Usual Way

    Tremendous scholarship has been invested in the study of the Old Testament text itself. But during the last few decades three presuppositions have controlled the thinking of scholars of theologically liberal leaning. These are:

    The Babylonian Creation Story

    That the Bible contains much “myth” and legend, especially the Pentateuch.

    That the Israelites developed their religion using the religions of their neighbors.
    That the Old Testament and, especially the Pentateuch, was written during the time of the kingdom and had spurious authors.
    Recent near eastern research has been burdened with these presuppositions. Unfortunately, the modern approach often deprecates the historicity of the Old Testament, submerging both it and the epics and myths of the now-translated texts in a fog of unrealism, thus precluding a proper historical understanding. When attempts at correlations are made, some scholars still try to compare what they feel are “myths” of Scripture with the myths of the extra-biblical texts.

    A Better Way
    Proper correlations will only be found when scholars:

    Stop treating the Bible as “myth.”

    Recognize extra-biblical ancient texts for what they are: written authority for divine kingship.

    They should not be considered as “beautiful literature” of the ancient near east. Many of the ancient texts, especially the epics and religious texts, are full of sex, gore, competition for power, deification of man, and many other activities inherent in a divine king absolutism. Their true intent must be discerned before attempting to relate them to the Old Testament.

    Furthermore, many scholars still hold to an evolutionary concept of religion, a sort of revised Wellhausenism. Their premise is that Israel’s religion evolved, or is a revision (improvement) of the religious systems of their neighbors to suit the purposes of the biblical writers. This is a presupposition which has hindered Old Testament research for well over a hundred years. Just as biological evolution has not been validated with real evidence; neither has religious evolution. Because of this misconception, much talent has dribbled off into insignificant detail and a large number of works have been written demonstrating theories for which there is little or no supporting evidence. The biblical system and the ancient near eastern religious systems run parallel from the beginning, with supporting documents for both.

    We will not examine the documentary hypothesis which has dominated so much of biblical studies. The theory has been shown by so many scholars to be deficient and unsupported, that it is not worth using in research.

    Which Came First?
    Part of Babylonian Creation Story

    In comparing the Bible with other literature of the ancient near east we are dealing with historical facts in the Bible, and a contrived religio-politico system in the extra-biblical texts WHICH ARE IN CONSTANT OPPOSITION. Neither grew out of the other. These two systems existed side by side, beginning with Genesis on one hand and documents like the Sumerian King List on the other. How can we assert this? Simply because of the indications of written records from the beginning as we find in Genesis 5:1 and 26:5, along with the phenomenal accuracy of the Table of Nations in chapter 10.

    Some scholars have tried, and done well, in defending the Old Testament against critics who tried to show it unhistorical. However, the tendency has been to use archaeological data to “prove” the Bible and explain the details, rather than developing a comprehensive system which brings together the Bible with the external data to better understand both. We NEED to synthesize the Bible with the cultures in which it was written. We are not satisfied with attempts made thus far.

    New Premises Needed

    The Sumerian King List

    We are suggesting that a new set of premises be used to solve some major problems of correlations. Many biblical scholars believe the Bible is a human book; that it was not Spirit given. Therefore, we should not consider it as a book of Truth.

    Why not, on the other hand, begin with the premise that the Bible is divine, and therefore completely true, and see what the evidence shows? One must begin with some basic presuppositions, or hypotheses, in presenting any new development of thought. George Mendenhall says what any sound researcher knows, “Hypotheses are basic to sound research and are eminently practical; they are constructed, not as a substitute for facts, but to suggest possibilities and to guide further investigation. They should not dictate conclusions” (Mendenhall 1965: 35).

    One has to support these presuppositions with facts, of course. Thus, they should be held somewhat lightly. If the facts disprove the hypothesis, it should be altered to accomodate the new facts which disagree with it, and occasionally it will have to be discarded as being completely out of line. The real problem comes when a person distorts the facts to fit his hypothesis. On the other hand, if the hypothesis is true, then the more thoroughly one investigates, the more detailed becomes the support for that hypothesis until almost nothing can refute it.

    Here are some hypotheses which we feel the facts will support:
    The source material for the Bible is NOT the ancient near eastern texts we know today.

    The Bible is historical fact, not a collection of myths and epics.

    The myths and epics of the ancient near east are fabricated religio-politico documents with a calculated purpose. They did not “evolve”as bards sang them around campfires.

    The Bible is antithetic to ancient near eastern religions.

    The purpose of the author of Genesis was to show the rise of the worship of YHVH

    Finally, the basic issue of both the Bible and the ancient near eastern texts is the question, “Who will control men and the world?”

    1. Looking at these in more detail, probably the most serious misjudgment (in our opinion) made by many biblical scholars is that the Bible is derived from other ancient near eastern sources. Well-known W.F. Albright says, “Enough, however, has been said to accentuate the significance of Israel’s borrowings from Canaanite religion”(Albright 1946: 94). Mesopotamian scholar, Samuel Noah Kramer, who mastered Sumerian, says. “. . . its (the Old Testament) roots reach deep into the distant past and spread wide across the surrounding lands” (Kramer 1959: 143-44). Some scholars suggest they may be cognates. That is, that they both come from a common source. This is possible. But it is only to say that there was, then, really just one source – that one originally composed and preserved by the worshippers of YHVH. For our purposes, however, we assume that the Old Testament is an ANTITHESIS to the religions of the ancient near east. If we consider that the Scripture accounts derived from other literature, this throws the understanding of both the sources and the Bible into hopeless confusion.

    According to Genesis 5: 1, the texts utilized to compose Genesis preceded Moses. The Hebrew word “sefer,” or “book,” is a written record, along with the rest of the “toledots” or “generations.” (See “From What Did Moses Compose Genesis” for more information on “toledots,” early manuscripts, early written records, and possible sources for Genesis.) Since the worshippers of YHVH existed independently of other religions, they must have had their own documents to follow (for instance, Genesis 26:5 speaks of four kinds of written records). The fact that we cannot find copies is not unusual. We do not even have very ancient Old Testament manuscripts. Furthermore, since no temples were built until the time of the kingdom (temples are the place where religious literature is found), this is another reason the earliest literature of YHVH followers has perished.

    2. To say that the early chapters of Genesis are shadowy myths, containing only germs of historical truth, is becoming increasingly untenable. The old custom of mythologizing the early chapters of Genesis created a fog about it making it impossible to discover its true purpose. Certainly, there may be aetiological (explaining the origin of things) accounts. But they are not fictional. They are factual. Much valuable work has been produced by scholars which, when only slightly differently interpreted, can shine a floodlight on God’s Word. What is needed are simple rules of interpretation different from those used previously.

    “I am Cyrus, king of the world, . . .All the kings of the entire world from the Upper to Lower Sea, . . . all the kings of the West . . . brought their heavy tributes and kissed my feet in Babylon. So says Cyrus the Great on . . . .”

    British Museum

    3. Documents, or texts, found on clay tablets of the ancient near east reveal an effort by power-hungry men to control as many people and as much property as possible. The myths and epics contained in them are mythical in that they are deliberately untrue. Historical elements there may be. But these are only pegs on which to hang the fables. They are fabricated religio-politico documents, almost always discovered in the palace-temple of ancient cities (Roux 1964: 87-101). The underlying purpose of these fabrications was to give the commoner the illusion that the king-high priest consorted with the gods and that he was a “son of the god ” (op. cit.: 96).

    The ruins of Khattushash, the ancient Hittite capital, guarded by two stone lions on either side of the city’s western gate. Located near the center of the Hittite empire (present-day Baghazk in Turkey). Khattushash flourished from 1600 BC to 1200 BC through its military might and control over the richest silver and iron mines in all of Asia Minor.
    Being the “son of the god” (a different god in each city), he owned everything, along with the priesthood. Thus he could take anything he wished from the people.

    Just as Ezra and Nehemiah read aloud and explained the Torah to a huge crowd (Neh 8:1 – 9:3), likewise the pagans did the same with their literature. Documents contrived by scribes and priests were intended to be read aloud to all the people at various festivals (op. cit.: 96, 100-01, 191-92). After the religious brainwashing, they may have given anything the king wished. When men have forsaken Absolute Truth (or never have known Him), all that is left is fantasy — a dream world. Rousas Rushdonny makes the point,

    The myth reveals a hatred of history . . . The purpose man then sets for himself in his myths is to end history, to make man the absolute governor by decreeing an end to the movement that is history. Where his myths acknowledge man’s lot in history, man ascribes his sorry role, not to his depravity, but to the jealousy of the gods. The goal of the myth, progressively more clearly enunciated in time, has become the destruction of history and the enthronement of man as the new governor of the universe (1967: 1).

    Thus, one should see the myths and epics for what they are — a deliberate attempt by ambitious and evil men (under the leadership of evil spiritual influences) to subjugate the populace and extort from them, along with the supporting priest-nobles, all that is needed for the most voluptuous lifestyle. When man becomes completely degenerate, he will develop a system to support his degeneracy. Occasionally a ruler might be more lenient with the people. But, none ever relinquishes divine kingship.

    These religio-politico texts can only be recognized for what they are by comparing them with the Bible. Not to do so, makes them basically incomprehensible in their “sitz im leben” (historical context).

    4. The Bible is an absolutely unique book. It actually establishes a positive system of YHVH worship, not simply an antithesis. Other religious literature can be compared and similarities found. But, the Bible can only be understood apart from them, yet reflecting them in its opposition. If we grant that the Bible is an antithesis to ancient near eastern religion, this will explain the apparent, but strained, similarities.

    Even though they are separate systems of thought, there will be similarities when they oppose over basic issues. Being opposites, they may react against each other. The clash between them may mount to the point where they go beyond polemics, and attempts are made at the destruction of the other’s system and adherents. Yeheskel Kauffman said, “Against this religion (Canaanite) the Israelites reacted with such vigor that we find only the scantest traces of it in Yahwehism . . . ” (Albright 1946: 94). The strange actions, for instance, of the Israelites before the fall of Jericho may well have been a travesty of the pageantry of the Canaanite Keret Epic which had very similar pageantry. But one is a reaction against the other, not a copy of it!

    To say that the Bible was derived from those religions and literature, distorts the Bible and does no credit to those religions, either (i.e., we misunderstand them, too). Whereas there is sometimes almost a complete syncretism in pagan religions (e.g., the pantheons of Egypt, Mesopotamia, Greece, and Rome), it is forbidden among the followers of YHVH.

    The Bible is the revelation of God in history. Since the culture was similar to that of the other lands of the ancient near east, there will be similarities for that reason. Similarities will be seen when:

    One mocks or derides the other.
    One counterfeits the true.
    There are common cultural traits.
    Used in both are pageantry and drama. Documents of both systems were written to be read aloud. So there will be similarities in the manner of presentation also.

    There must be a very close correlation between the Bible and extra-biblical texts. If we grant the Bible is completely reliable historically, we should eventually be able to make complete correlations.

    5. The purpose of Moses in compiling Genesis was to show the beginning of YHVH worship with its ultimate blessing to all mankind. Over against it is also laid out the rise and growth of anti-YHVH systems which cause the continual ruination of mankind.

    Yahwehism did not originate with Moses; it began with Adam and Eve and the first reflexes of it in worship were shown by Abel. Note the word “Elohim” in Genesis, chapter one, is used of the Creator. In chapters two and three, Elohim is Equated with “YHVH.” Double names for God thus do not support the Wellhausen theory, but are traditional in most of the ancient near eastern religions. Then, in chapter four, the designation is simply YHVH alone, with Cain worshipping YHVH wrongly, and Abel doing it rightly. Here too, we have the first example of defiant anti-Yahwehism.

    Yahwehism was carried on in the open air by Cain and Abel. Noah built an altar. So did Abraham. No early worshipper of YHVH built a temple. This explains why no trace of YHVH worship has ever been uncovered by archaeologists during this early period. No temples were needed, because the followers of YHVH were not grasping for power and control over people.

    6. One must not impose his preconceptions on Scripture. We should seek to determine what it actually says. It claims to be the Word of the Living God. If this is so, then it is not a disjointed set of humanly fabricated volumes. It should have a continuous theme running all through it, from Genesis to Revelation. The theme is something like: “YHVH is the Creator, King and Redeemer of all creation.” The uniting factor of both testaments is the basic question, “Who will control men and the world now and forever?” There is a continual contest throughout Scripture between Satan and God to control men. On the world scene, the contest is often seen between the emissaries of Satan and those of YHVH God.

    Bibliography

    Albright, W. F.,
    1946 Archaeology and the Religion of Israel. Baltimore: Johns Hopkins Press.

    Jacobsen, T.,
    1939 The Sumerian Kinglist. Chicago: University Press.

    Kramer, S. N.,
    1959 History Begins at Sumer. Garden City NY: Doubleday & Co.

    Mendenhall, G.,
    1965 “Biblical History in Transition,” The Bible and the Ancient Near East.
    New York: Doubleday & Co.

    Pritchard, J.,
    1955 Ancient Near Eastern Texts and the Old Testament. Princeton: University Press.

    Roux, G.,
    1966 Ancient Iraq. Harmondsworth, Middlesex, UK: Penguin Books.

    Rushdoony, R.,
    1967 The Mythology of Science. Nutley, NJ: Craig Press.

    © 2003 David Livingston

  29. JUST ASKING Avatar
    JUST ASKING

    HOW can carnal mind discern spiritual things ?
    HOW ???

  30. BAFBFP Avatar
    BAFBFP

    do people actually read Zoe? I mean the man is sit down and put some real words pon paper. He must be doing it for a reason other than for self gratification.

  31. JUST ASKING Avatar
    JUST ASKING

    IF not GOD and the Bible -who and what ??

    WHY wunnah dont answer these questions ??

  32. kiki Avatar
    kiki

    Is this the Georgie Porgie time for the moment of rapture for him or is this another premature ejaculation from all the hype.
    Is Georgie Porgie really a visionary and prophet despite his bad temper and excessive drinking

  33. kiki Avatar
    kiki

    BAFP, no we don’t read them, zoe is on a different spiritual frequency to you where everything studied and every word has meaning for long stories. He (probably) believes woman are an evil temptation and should be allowed to not go near men because they will corrupt them. People like him believe that there would be no religion if they didn’t study it all day long

  34. Hawkeye Avatar
    Hawkeye

    And they beieve they’re right. Seriously, totally right. Not just for them. For all of us.

  35. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    JUST ASKING, asked!

    “IF not GOD and the Bible -who and what ??”

    If one is not* been led by the One and Only God of historic divine revelation, and His Word* the Bible, then one is been led and influenced by the god* of this present world system, Satan, it is either/or, NOT both/and.

    Secondly, the ‘natural’ man, who is not Saved, cannot, does not, will not understand, grasp or perceive, the things of the Spirit of God, because they are spiritually, discerned* and therefore, remain foolishness to him.

  36. Back To The Future – futuristic – existence – Chamber Of WizdomChamber Of Wizdom

    […] How Will Earthlings React To NOT Being Alone In The Galaxy? (bajan.wordpress.com) […]

  37. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Old Testament prophecy
    fulfilled before our eyes?
    Americans scrambling to Bible to see
    previously untold parallels with today

    What do sycamore and cedar trees have to do with biblical prophecy, the tragic events of 9/11 and the imminent future of the United States?

    The roots of a sycamore tree at Ground Zero felled on Sept. 11, 2001, have been preserved as a memorial to the event in New York City. A local messianic rabbi believes it’s a visible fulfillment of an Old Testament prophecy about God’s current judgment on America.

    Everything, according to a new book which says an obscure text from the Old Testament prophet Isaiah is an urgent wake-up call for all Americans in light of what happened on that fateful day in 2001.

    “The Harbinger” by Jonathan Cahn, a messianic rabbi from the Jerusalem Center-Beth Israel Congregation in Wayne, N.J., deciphers stunning connections between what some may think is a cryptic biblical prophecy to the news events happening right now, in our current time.

    Read “The Harbinger: The Ancient Mystery That Holds the Secret of America’s Future” for yourself!

    The key verse in question is Isaiah 9:10, which states: “The bricks are fallen down, but we will build with hewn stones: the sycomores are cut down, but we will change them into cedars.” (King James Version)

    These words were first uttered by leaders in ancient Israel and in response to a limited strike by Assyria on the lands of Zebulun and Naphtali – an attack the prophet makes clear is actually part of a limited judgment by God against apostasy. It wasn’t meant to destroy the nation, but to awaken it, according to most commentaries.

    Historically speaking, the northern kingdom of Israel did not repent of its rebellion against God’s commandments, and were eventually conquered and deported from their property by the ancient Assyrians. Eventually, the southern kingdom of Judah was also overcome by the Babylonians after the Jews refused to repent as well.

    But in “The Harbinger,” Cahn shows uncanny similarities between what’s stated in Isaiah 9:10 to the 21st century events of 9/11 and the years afterward, suggesting America is currently under a time of focused judgment by Almighty God.

    Cahn claims the part of the prophecy noting “The bricks are fallen down” refers directly to the crumbling of the World Trade Center in New York City, with the verse connoting on an attitude of defiance, a desire to rebuild with stronger materials instead of acknowledging the hand of God and moving toward national repentance.

    The verse mentions sycamore and cedar trees, and it’s here that things start to get eerie with the terrorist attack involving planes that smashed into the Twin Towers, leading to their eventual crumbling.

    “After the cloud of dust began to clear, police officers, rescue workers and onlookers gazed at the little plot of land at the edge of Ground Zero,” Cahn writes in “The Harbinger.”

    “There in the middle of the ash and debris that covered the ground was a fallen tree. It would soon become a symbol of 9/11 and of Ground Zero. And it was a symbol … but one much more ancient than anyone there could have realized, and one carrying a message no one could have fathomed.”

    “The tree at Ground Zero that was struck down on September 11 was a sycamore tree.”

    Cahn notes that in Old Testament times, the Assyrians who attacked the ancient Israelites intended to cut down the sycamore trees belonging to God’s people. But the intention was not present with the hijackers of 2001.

    “The terrorists had no idea of Isaiah 9:10, no idea of the Harbingers, no idea of the sycamore tree growing at the corner of Ground Zero, and no idea that their attack would cause it to fall or that its fall was connected to an ancient prophecy. They had no idea … but it still happened.”

    Not only was a sycamore tree struck on 9/11, but it was replaced in the exact same location by another tree of the type mentioned in the original Hebrew, an “erez” tree, which is the same genus as the cedar.
    The uprooted sycamore tree from Ground Zero was replaced by the “Tree of Hope,” a conifer tree which Rabbi Jonathan Cahn says fulfills the prophecy of Isaiah 9:10.

    “The most natural thing to have done would have been to replace one sycamore with another,” Cahn writes. “But the prophecy required that the fallen sycamore be replaced with a tree of an entirely different nature. So the tree that replaced the sycamore of Ground Zero was likewise not a sycamore. According to the prophecy, the sycamore must be replaced by the biblical erez. So it must be replaced by a conifer tree.”

    And that’s what took place in 2003, as a conifer tree, the “Tree of Hope” as it was called, was planted in the spot where the sycamore was slammed on 9/11.

    “Think about it,” says Cahn. “Who could have put it all together? The tower fell because of the terrorists. It happened to fall exactly as it did in order to strike down that one particular tree. The tree just happened to be a sycamore, which just happened to be growing at the corner of Ground Zero.

    “The tree that would replace it just happened to be given as a gift from outsiders who had nothing to do with anything else, but who just happened to feel led to give it. Their gift just happened to be the fulfillment of the biblical Erez Tree, which just happened to be the same tree spoken of in the ancient vow – the tree that must replace the Sycamore.

    “They just happened to lower it into the same soil in that the fallen Sycamore had once stood – exactly as in the Hebrew of the ancient vow. And the man who led the ceremony around the tree just happened to bring it all together without knowing that he was bringing anything together. No one knew what they were doing. It wasn’t a matter of intent. It was a manifestation of the Harbingers.”

    “The parallels are truly stunning,” says Joseph Farah, founder of WND, who is producing a video documentary about Cahn’s findings. “They are too numerous and too powerful to relate in news story form. In fact, they are overwhelming in their number and their exactitude. I am persuaded God is trying to tell America something and Rabbi Cahn has found the key to unlocking the message.”

    As WND previously reported, two major American political figures actually voiced the Isaiah 9:10 prophecy in public in the immediate wake of the 9/11 onslaught.

    “In the aftermath of the attack, the nation was stunned,” said Cahn, “Everyone was trying to make sense of what had happened – this unprecedented attack on America. The very next day, September 12, then Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle presented America’s response to the world. And what did he say?”

    Daschle said: “America will emerge from this tragedy as we have emerged from all adversity – united and strong. Nothing … nothing can replace the losses of those who have suffered. I know there is only the smallest measure of inspiration that can be taken from this devastation. But there is a passage in the Bible from Isaiah that speaks to all of us at times like this.”

    He then went on to read Isaiah 9:10.

    “Daschle has no idea what he is doing here,” explains Cahn. “He thinks he’s offering comforting words to a grief-stricken people, but he is actually embracing the spiritually defiant and arrogant words of the children of Israel, proclaiming the ancient and ominous vow of the leaders of that nation. He doesn’t realize it, but he is actually inviting more judgment on the nation.”

    It might be of some significance that Daschle, one of the most powerful men in the nation when he spoke those words, later fell into disgrace – to the point where he couldn’t even serve in Barack Obama’s Cabinet.

    That might have been the end of the story – if no other top leader in the nation uttered those strange and obscure words after 9/11. But that’s not the case.

    On the third anniversary of the attack, Sept. 11, 2004, another powerful U.S. senator running for vice president that year and who would famously run for the presidency four years later, gave a speech to the Congressional Black Caucus.

    This time, John Edwards’ entire speech was built on a foundation of Isaiah 9:10: “Today, on this day of remembrance and mourning, we have the Lord’s Word to get us through,” he said. He then read Isaiah 9:10. He went on to talk about how America was doing just that – rebuilding with hewn stone and planting cedars:

    “Like Daschle, Edwards thinks he’s invoking inspirational and comforting words from the Bible, but he’s actually inviting judgment on America,” says Cahn. “He’s repeating the vow that provoked God to bring calamity on ancient Israel.”

  38. Moneybrain Avatar
    Moneybrain

    @Zoe
    Change your title to “copy and paste”!

    You have ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF of God’s existence. Please note that Christians are always reminded to have FAITH, which is identical to conmen and used car salesmen TACTICS!

    In 500 AD there was a meeting at Nicea where the Eastern Pope determined what should go into the Bible! Please dont tell us that you believe that he chose perfectly???? Assuming Mary Magdalene was a disciple and wrote one of the Gospels, it would have been easy to exclude her book and brand her a WHORE! Women did NOT gain the vote until 1900+ yrs later.

    There are several examples of Sumerian writings in the Old Testament taken from the Epic of Gilgamesh etc. God, if real, gave me the IQ to question everything and NOT be totally GULLIBLE!

  39. Moneybrain Avatar
    Moneybrain

    @Zoe
    “Gloryfying the creator” seems exactly like what dictators in various parts of the earth demand eg Nth Korea, certain African leaders etc. Could be all a con game!

    Humans all descended from A&E who were genetically modified from what???? in God’s image!!!!

    Assuming God is perfect and created all humans then why did he have to bring the FLOOD to destroy his own “perfect” creations.???? Sounds like what scientists do with failed experiments….destroy them. Maybe God is a very scientifically advanced leader of an extraterrestrial specie!

    If everyone descends from A&E then that explains why so many people are stupid……..inbreeding!

  40. kiki Avatar
    kiki

    God does exist, the Devil told us
    tithe your money to his Devil church
    if you want to go heaven on a recommend

  41. kiki Avatar
    kiki

    sometimes things get mixed up historically, for example west indians are not from india they are from africa becuase the arawaks looked like they were from india to the white christian men with their bibles and guns

  42. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Moneybrain | January 10, 2012 at 2:57 PM | @ Moneybrain | January 10, 2012 at 3:30 PM |

    I think you are brilliant! You are now offered a place to pursue undergraduate studies at the University of Astral Theology. Jordan Maxwell will be your tutor in year1.

  43. kiki Avatar
    kiki

    i’m gonna take just a one step more
    because i feel like bombing a church now
    now that you know that you know the preacher is lying
    so who’s gonna stay at home when the freedom fighters are fighting

  44. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    @Moneybrain, You are in such a state of IGNORANCE, unlearnedness, [the BLIGHT of IGNORANCE!) you can’t even spell your name correctly, it IS* MONKEYBRAIN, fool!

    “The FOOL* has said in his heart, ‘There is no God.’ They are CORRUPT.” (Psa. 14:1)

    For, the Historic, scientific, logical, legal, coherent, credible, warranted, EVIDENCE, FACTS, for Almighty God’s existence, as declared IN* His* Word, the Bible, across the history of mankind, IS* IRREFRAGIBLE, IRREFUTABLE, INDUSTRUCTIBLE, ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE* INDISPUTABLE, IRREBUTTABLE, so that your irrelevant, utter insignificant, FOLLY, FOOLISHNESS, and HOGWASH, is entirely consistant, coming from a MONKEYBRAIN* like yours, therefore, IQ, with reference to YOU, could only mean:

    IGNORANCE QUOTIENT! Personified!!!

  45. islandgal246 Avatar
    islandgal246

    FOLLY, FOOLISHNESS, and HOGWASH, is entirely consistant, coming from a FALSE PROPHET ZOE* like you, therefore, IQ, with reference to YOU, could only mean:

    IGNORANCE QUOTIENT! Personified!!!

  46. kiki Avatar
    kiki

  47. Moneybrain Avatar
    Moneybrain

    @ZOE
    Interesting response from a SUPPOSED, SELF NOMENCLATURED……CHRISTIAN.

    I KNOW my IQ is in the top 2%! Hence your tirade proves only one fact, you need to read The Bible very closely, indeed The New Testament would suffice, in order to learn how to convey your supposed vast knowledge to the DISBELIEVING Thomases in the Christ approved way.

    Why do you think Jesus introduced Thomas? HINT… to convey to the faithful and easily conned that some high IQ folks would NOT easily buy the simplistic con game and would quite correctly require loads of evidence. The principles and philosophy of Christianity are definitely golden BUT much of the details and the interpretation by humans are certainly open to question.

    Your voluminous epistles ie copy and paste, fail to communicate precisely because peeps just do NOT have time to read 5000 words when 50 could have made the point and references could be included for those who require such.

    Monkeys are widely regarded as the most clever animals and indeed under the Chinese 12yr rotational calendar, I am a Monkey year birth. Zoe you have therefore FAILED in your attempt to discredit me and FAILED before GOD to be truly Christian!

  48. kiki Avatar
    kiki

  49. kiki Avatar
    kiki

    zoe, interesting hypothesis about israeli and american beliefs about 9/11 bringing in the revelations times, as they say in somes books what is hidden from the wise and foolish will be revealed to babes and sucklings.. maybe the towers exploded and israeli and americans knew about the revelations beforehand.. maybe islamists believe in armageddon too

  50. Checkit-Out Avatar
    Checkit-Out

    Interesting discussion here. Don’t know how I missed it earlier.

    I think that the convergence of current multidisciplinary research is suggesting that Mankind has never been alone in the Universe; That much of what we have been exposed to in our Bible is a collection of allegorical myths revealed to priest castes by mischievous entities in another dimension and used by these religions to develop systems for keeping the masses in a state of false knowledge and subservience.

    Science appears to be slowly unraveling the twisted knots of life on this sphere. For several years now there has been the beginning of the convergence of quantum theory and some aspects of some religions and more recently the proposals that underpinning all existence is the human mind. (The Universe is replicated on a larger scale by the immense complexity of the human mind) Google Biocentrism and if you are persistent, discover that biology may be the most important aspect of the universe transcending all other features of that universe.

    The newish scientific proposals have room for Gods (Miller’s Annunaki,) and other entities and might be interpreted to suggest that the science of random chance giving rise to the various complexities of our being will eventually be totally disproven. But we are still a long way from identifying a first cause. The big bang theory might also be a casualty of the ideas emanating from several scientists.

    The Science of beginnings has never been richer and the hope is that the internet and its democratization of information that was formerly restricted to a chosen few, will lead to mankind recognizing the complexities even if not understanding them, and also recognizing the charlatans clothed in the garbs of the high priests and priestesses of both Science and Religion alike.

    Kindle has lots of books on the intertwining subjects. Mankind might be at the cusp of ascending to a new point omega in the not too distant future.

The blogmaster invites you to join the discussion.

Trending

Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading