The Origin of Life: Can Theories Like Abiogenesis, Exogenesis, Quantum Mechanics & Stellar Nucleosynthesis Help In The Debate Between Creationism And Evolutionary Science?

Submitted by Terence Blackett

Charles Darwin

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth – Gen. 1:1

Who holds the “patent” on the things we see all around us in nature? How do we explain that it takes an estimated 100,000 different proteins to construct a human being? Is that the product of accident, chance or randomization – or does it spell Intelligent Design? For many, the origin of how life emerged remains one of the great unsolved mysteries and conundrums for both ancient and modern science.

It is recognized that the subject of this current piece is beyond the gamut of unlimited word count to do it any serious scholarship – however as this is a galvanizing issue and feelings run deep on both sides of the divide, we will attempt to do some form of interim justice given our lack of brevity. For although questions regarding the genesis of life remain a talking-point even within the realm of philosophy – religion (understandably) dominates this platform; yet science continues to hold its own in keeping the debate alive.

So how can concepts like ‘abiogenesis’, ‘exogenesis’, ‘quantum mechanics’ and ‘stellar nucleosynthesis’ assist us in making sense of our primordial quest for understanding?

Let us begin in 1870 where Thomas Huxley opined that “I shall call the…doctrine that living matter may be produced by not living matter, the hypothesis of abiogenesis…” This was a paleoanthropological echo from a not too distant past when Charles Darwin had chained himself to the Tower of Babel in defense that there was no GOD* and in turn hatched a lurid tales of spontaneous regeneration of biological organisms which metamorphosed over billions of years to eventual form all living things including man.

In 1924, Russian biochemist Alexander Oparin also proposed that living cells arose gradually from nonliving matter through a sequence of chemical reactions. This “Warm Soup” theory by evolutionary scientists suggest that according to Oparin, “gases present in the atmosphere of primitive earth, when induced by lightening or other sources of energy, would react to form simple organic compounds. These compounds would subsequently self-assemble into increasingly complex molecules such as proteins. These, in turn, would organize themselves into living cells.”

So abiogenesis – is that field of science dedicated to studying how life might have arisen for the first time on planet earth as some form of primordial protoplasmic globule – a basis that is challenged by the proponents of exogenesis; both concepts in one way or another debunked by quantum mechanics and stellar nucleosynthesis propping up the Big Bang theory and the evolution of life forms.

Huxley’s echo continues to reverberate even today as we witness the power of pseudo-indoctrination and its effects upon the human mind. “I had motives for not wanting the world to have a meaning; consequently assumed that it had none, and was able without any difficulty to find satisfying reasons for this assumption. The philosopher who finds no meaning in the world is not concerned exclusively with a problem in pure metaphysics, he is also concerned to prove that there is no valid reason why he personally should not do as he wants to do, or why his friends should not seize political power and govern in the way that they find most advantageous to themselves… For myself, the philosophy of meaninglessness was essentially an instrument of liberation, sexual and political.” A. Huxley (evolutionist, leftist, and grandson of T.H. Huxley, known as “Darwin’s bulldog”): Ends and Means, p. 270.

Therefore, if abiogenesis posits this idea of life emerging from virtually nothing, it is clear to see why men fail to believe in the existential nature of a Creator GOD* and that as the Designer – He made all things according to His will and commands. Huxley, like many, have landed in a quagmire of meaningless; a soup-bowl of void and nothingness – to find themselves vacuous, empty and alone in the universe.

Let us now examine the theory of exogenesis or panspermia (mutually interchangeable terminologies with slight variants at times) as it is referred to in some circles. Exogenesis is a hypothesis that originated in the 19th century in opposition to the theory of spontaneous generation. The physics of the universe describes exogenesis as an alternative to earthly abiogenesis hypothesizing that “primitive life may have originally formed extraterrestrially, either in space or on a nearby planet such as Mars. Such ideas have had many eminent supporters over the years, including Francis Crick, the co-discoverer of the structure of the DNA molecule, and the astrophysicist Sir Fred Hoyle among others. These theories may go some way to explaining the presence of life on Earth so soon after the planet had cooled down, with apparently very little time for prebiotic evolution.”

But there’s a problem here!

If the “seeds” of life already existed somewhere in the universe or from some nearby or distant galaxy, and that life on earth may have originated through some form of scattered “star-dust” (symbolic of the same way a farmer scatters seed into the wind to sow crops) – then life on our planet was the indirect result of cosmic geoponics involving interdependent cross-colonization and cross-fertilization from nearby worlds. Therefore it would be safe to conclude that there is a reverse process as well – though no scientific proof exists anywhere.

At the molecular level, life as we know it requires the elements hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, iron, phosphorus and sulphur to exist at sufficient densities and temperatures for the chemical reactions between them to occur. These conditions however are not widespread in the universe, so this limits the distribution or scattering of life as an ongoing process damaging the environment for life, as it would be exposed to radiation, cosmic rays, stellar winds and other rogue cosmologies.

Clearly, exogenesis lacks creditability or validity barring a few who would choose to believe that life on earth was the direct result of extraterrestrial phenomena – something Hollywood is keen to exploit in order to engage weak, flaccid and debilitated minds who believe that the concept of a Creator is too simplistic a notion to be given any credence – which brings us to the least understood topic of quantum mechanics and how it can explain (if at all) the origins of life.

Bioastronomy and astrophysics have been in a race to build a quantum computer with the ability to process massive informational data resources inconceivable to the human mind – given the premise that life as defined by information processing and replicating systems could prove that the abovementioned theories of abiogenesis and exogenesis were merely random concoctions of a primordial chemical soup mix.

While some argue that quantum theory deals with the structure and behaviour of atoms and molecules and it really has absolutely nothing to do with the mythology of abiogenesis or exogenesis as a matter of fact – yet quantum mechanics does provide (in theory) the building blocks of biochemistry and therefore provides the relative forces including the coherence, entanglement and superposition constituents which allow non-living matter to make up living matter. The plausibility of this speculative assertion rests, however, on life somehow circumventing the decoherence effects of environmental phenomena.

To simplify – Paul Davies suggests for decoherence to be avoided: “In the presence of environmental noise, the delicate phase relationships that characterize quantum effects get scrambled, turning pure quantum states into mixtures and in effect marking a transition from quantum to classical behaviour. Only so long as decoherence can be kept at bay will explicitly quantum effects persist.” But based on this process of randomization – how plausible is it to keep the fluidity of environmental noise at bay? This is the conundrum!

So to posit with any degree of certainty that the effects of quantum mechanics will play a significant or decisive role in managing the proprietary blends of either abiogenesis or exogenesis would be the subject of an advanced research project.

However, to bring home the disparity that exist within quantum mechanics and the origins of life can be cited from theoretical physicist Paul Davies who argues that “the transition from non-life to life was a quantum-mediated process, and that the earliest form of life involved nontrivial quantum mechanical aspects.” However, J. D. Sinclair argues that based on the Copenhagen Interpretation that “the first question is the indeterminacy of matter while in an unobserved state. This indeterminacy seems to agree very well with a Hindu worldview. Hindus believe the world observed through our senses is an illusion, and the actual reality (the universe) is itself God. One can argue that indeterminacy proves that nature is an illusion after all. It also seems to show that there can be no reality outside the universe, hence God is the universe or there is no God.”

Davies believe that “the field of molecular biology posed interesting scenarios according to Schrodinger (1944) where the stable transmission of genetic information from generation to generation in discrete bits implied a quantum mechanical process, although he was unaware of the role of or the specifics of genetic encoding. But could quantum mechanics solve the issue of the living state of matter? Or did the quantum mechanical process play a key role in the emergence of life up to a predetermined level, and subsequently ceased to be a significant factor when life became fully emergent?”

These are the issues which science is still trying to answer!

The final aspect of our narrative termed stellar nucleosynthesis deals with this concept some call the “BIG BANG” where some proponents believe that many of the plagues which were experienced in the last millennia was due to this theory.

Science explains stellar nucleosynthesis as the collective term for the nuclear reactions taking place in stars to build the nuclei of the elements heavier than hydrogen. Small quantity of these reactions also occurs on the stellar surface under various circumstances. For the creation of elements during the explosion of a star, the term supernova nucleosynthesis is used. So for BIG-BANG* theorists like Chris Halsall this phenomenon is a crucial determinant in their orthodoxy to prove that this is how life originated.

A quantum leap back into the past to the year 1348 – Europe has fallen under the shadow of the Black Death. The Black Death sweeps through Europe between 1348 to 1353 and is thought to have killed one-third of London’s citizens. Many believe that this was the prophesied time of the [7] last plagues of Revelation 15:5, “as the plague decimates all in its path, fear and superstition are rife.”

These were the cinematographic portrayals and projections from the 2010 box office movie release aptly entitled “The Black Death”. Hollywood’s fascination with dark, sinister themes throws us back to a bygone era in time where myths, legends and folklore ruled the day. The Biblical idea of plagues as is termed in Revelation 8:10-11 where it says: “And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter” is a prophecy of damnable proportions which cannot be easily deconstructed using scientific jargon.

But today, the objectification of that kind of medieval primordiality is coined in the words “conspiracy theory”, “doomsday prophecies” and neomythology – theories that tend to either excite, scare or irate most who are moved by them either in one way or another.

However, the line between Hollywood fiction and what is real has been so blurred and it is difficult to tell who is really writing the historical script – both past and present.

A recent study by a team of paleo-archeologists, osteologists and others from universities in Canada and Germany unearthed surviving fragments of DNA in bones and teeth of 2,400 victims of the Black Death who were buried at a special cemetery a few metres from the Tower of London, providing samples for a ground-breaking research study.

The research indicated that the yersina pestis microbe (the infectious agent) was not present on the British mainland prior the Black Death, which suggest it reached Britain from elsewhere. But how did it get here? What were its origins?

A Roman Catholic nun in Italy, Sister Mariaelena Bianchessi draws on theories presented by Dr. Fred Hoyle and Dr. Chandra Wickramasinghe, both known for their belief that influenza outbreaks are caused by newly arriving viruses from outer space in a recently published a research paper. If this can be proved under vigorous examination – then it goes quite some distance in proving the inerrant accuracy of the Bible. The other aspects of this theory can be explored in greater details at publication.

Finally, in conclusion, we can wrap up our theoretical sketch by skimming the surface of the creationist debate to see how they juxtapose with the other theories.

In our world currently, many religious fundamentalists believe that the earth and everything on it was created a six [24] hour days, [6000] years ago while evolutionary scientists, atheists and others believe that a Creator GOD* is a myth and as Professor Hawking lamented earlier this year that “Heaven” ‘is a place reserved for people who are afraid of the dark’. Musketeers like Hawking, Dawkins & Co; believe the Bible is a book filled with mythology; life is the product of randomization; most importantly, life is the product of undirected events. What is lost in the argument is that theoretical scientists look at the designs in nature and copy products and technologies which have been very beneficial to mankind – however they fail miserably in answering with any intellectual honesty the question that says – “if the copy required a designer, what about the ORIGINAL?”

Evolutionary science hinges on [3] basic myths: Mutations provide the raw materials needed to create new species; Natural selection led to the creation of new species; and fossil records document macroevolutionary changes. However, like Christianity, to a lesser extent, belief in evolution requires a serious act of faith. But as evolutionist Richard Lewontin states, “Many scientist refuse even to consider the possibility of an intelligent Designer because we cannot allow a Divine foot in the door.”

0 thoughts on “The Origin of Life: Can Theories Like Abiogenesis, Exogenesis, Quantum Mechanics & Stellar Nucleosynthesis Help In The Debate Between Creationism And Evolutionary Science?

  1. Do you think Buddhism has any more (or less) value than any other belief system?

    buddhist may affirm
    if you felt buddhism has more value, then it has more value
    if you felt buddhism has less value, then it has less value

  2. To Chris:
    Given that question I would have to consider it and get back to you. When you say value; do you mean it subjectively or comparatively. Every belief system would have value at a point and time of the individual’s development, but the real issue is the core beliefs of that system. What essentially is it requiring us to believe or accept as a reality. The problem is many of us surf on the surface not knowing that sharks are circling beneath.

    Got to be somewhere soon. But I shall check your post later.

  3. “If you do not believe in any gods, what do you believe in.”

    This is your problem. You can’t conceive that some people do not believe. For me belief is a doubt and I prefer my position which is, “you either know or don’t know.” Belief leads to ignorance and unreasonable behaviour; as you have been so good at demonstrating.

    When you act on a belief, it means you don’t have the facts and when you don’t have the facts how can your actions be wholesome, fair or just? Actually, when you don’t have the facts, only injustice can be dispensed. I will not join that kind of folly.

  4. What an interesting discussion. I wonder what else I have missed over the summer.

    I have to admit that BSC with Ecology and EarthSciences brought to the fore some of my geography lessons from the late 50’s and early sixties. Poor Lemuel seems to have been shorted or went to a school where students picked their subjects. He should check the Rockies, (young mountain range) the Appalachians (older) and Table mountain in South Africa (one of the oldest). Just looking at the peaks would tell him a lot about the ages of these mountains and erosion. In fact, the Australian natives think Ayres Rock is the remains of a very old, old, old mountain. So there.

    With regard to the rest of the discussuon I have been there and done that with Zoe et al, and has been christened child of DARKNESS, ha, ha, ha.

  5. David it is very difficult to post in this blog with firefox. It is taking too long to load and is freezing up. I may have to change browser any suggestions?

  6. Hello Pat , glad to see you back here. What I can’t understand about Christians is that they cannot accept that people can think for themselves and can discard the Christian faith.

    Rok…… you have explained it so profoundly how you feel yet some Christians find it very difficult to accept. They should be more concerned about themselves and less concerned about others who do not share their belief. They dare not think for themselves so they expect others to do the same.

    The reason most West Indians are Christians today is because they were held captive and had to do whatever it took to survive. They were forced to accept the European man’s religion because they wanted to survive. If our ancestors had been allowed to practice their religion we would definitely not have been a Christian society.

    The East Indians came to the West Indies as indentured servants and brought their religion with them. They weren’t forbidden to practice it like the slaves were. The British tried by occupying India and failed miserably. Why can’t our people open their eyes and see? They have been blinded by this religion called Christianity. Many of them can easily be admitted to the hospital in Black Rock, however it is acceptable to suffer from religious schizophrenia than to get treatment for it.

  7. Bsc, I am having problems with the Internet connections, etc, very frustrating.

    Anyway, I’ll post the intro from a highly qualified biologist, Dr. Robert W. Carter, re; “Genetics: No friend of Evoltion”

    “Genetics and evolution have been enemies from the beginning of both concepts. Gregor Mendel, the father of genetics, and Charles Darwin, the father of of modern evolution, were contemporaries. At the same time that Darwin was claiming that creatures could change into other creatures, Mendel was showing that even individual characteristics remain constant. While Darwin’s ideas were based on erroneous and untested ideas about inheritance, Mendel’s conclusions were based on experimentation. Only by ignoring the total implications of modern genetics, has it been possible to maintain the fiction of evolution.”

    “To help us develop a new biology based on Creation rather than evolution, let us sample some of the evidence from genetics, arranged under the four sources of VIRATION: ENVIORNMENT, RECOMBINATION, MUTATION, and CREATION.” Emphasis added. (First published: Creation
    20 (2): 20-22 March 1998.

    Here endeth, my short Intro from Dr. Carter, on this vital subject of Genetics, which exposes the erroneous position(s) of evolution, as I’m tired from a long day, tomorrow morning, I’ll pick back up, from Carter’s enlightened work, on Enviornment, Recombination, Mutation, and Creation.

  8. To ROK:
    I am assuming that you are practicing the scientific methodology when you use the word fact. This what scientists say about facts: they are a dime a dozen; they are only confirmed observations; they do not explain anything. Tell me now what is this fact that you know and how does it help you in your daily life or shape your way of thinking. What are the knows that you know that are facts. Give me at least one. For I have shared many of my beliefs with you.

    I asked you in the post about the word value but you ignored, and seemed to think that i was running from the discussion. I would go with Kiki’s affirmation approach but I would still have a difficulty with value in relation to what. A large diamond in Europe would bring a man much happiness, but the same diamond in a person in the desert hand may only be a pebble to toss aside. Value in the general enrichment of the human experience. Value in comparison to another system of belief. Remember Chris my understanding is only at two percent so I have to know what we are talking about, and to ensure that ROK and Pat can follow.

  9. @Lemuel
    “What are the knows that you know that are facts. Give me at least one. For I have shared many of my beliefs with you.”

    Really? You have not shared your beliefs with me, you are spouting run of the mill layman’s christianity. Furthermore, your mind is so closed that you could not possibly contribute to anything I may want to say about myself and my thoughts.

  10. @ ROK

    So ROKie, would you like to tell us what you KNOW and what you do not believe?

    De Bushman gine soon come fuh yuh. 🙂

  11. @ BSC EWES
    “Like I will always tell Zoe, I will not say that I am perfect or that my beliefs are absolute. However you and Zoe bring nothing to give us proof of a higher deity and therefore your arguments can be easily turned against you…”



    After a long weekend I am back to follow the so-called “SCIENTIFICALLY” bankrupt arguments being purported by men who spend an inordinate amount of time it seems looking at “ROCKS” to prop their sagging materialistic edifices…

    No wonder Jesus said that if men refuse to give HIM* glory – even the “ROCKS” would cry out!!!

    An interesting use of words for our archeology students and fossil purveyors as well as stone throwers…




    Looking forward to your response!!!


    I am duly aware of your time constraints and unlike some FOLKS* who think I tend to “HIDE” from interaction on issues – I am aware that you will not always be present to avail yourselves to the methodological inquisition that is BARBADOS UNDERGROUND*… LOL!!!


  12. @ DAVID


    But if a man says he has FAITH* – then show me his works!!!

    For faith without works is dead!!!

    FAITH & WORKS are like a hand in a glove…

    They are both INTERDEPENDENT!!!

    Based on my last comment, a lot of issues were inferred however, I don’t believe I was trying to say that “RELIGION”* is not “FAITH-BASED”…

    On the contrary, and in actuality, the proponents of EVOLUTION* refuse to accept that in order to accept their arcane epistemology calls for a “MEASURE” of faith…

  13. @ DAVID

    After 325 + comments this thread is still running is UNBELIEVABLE*…

    If I was doing a “STRAW POLL” on such issues of pertinence I would be in no doubt as to what my conclusive findings would be far-less an exhaustive analytical, methodological, quantifiable survey and evaluation based on research techniques… Can you imagine that folks* PAY FOR THIS STUFF!!! (lol)


  14. Summary of postings
    patronizing christians such as TB/Zoe/Lemuel are extreme closed minded and cannot comprehend the concept of one big world with several religious philosophies and cultures living in coexistence and all have truths and falsities in their belief

  15. I HAD TO POST A VT ON GALTON* (cousin to Darwin) WHOSE INSIDIOUS “eugenic” MOVEMENT IS STILL WITH US TODAY AS IS DARWINIST THEORY and a whole sleuth of humanistic philosophies…


    The tragic IRONY* is that if most of us took some time to study the emergent phenomena of the 18th century period – one would find that there is that clear “SILK” thread which has been woven and now run its way down through 200+ years with its roots steeped in GRECO-ROMAN philosophy and mythology (narratives which are throw-backs) to the era of BABYLONIAN* folklore and superstition…

    This immanitas eschatology is being used by a modern-day elite, and an academic epistemological CARTEL* as cloak ‘n’ dagger SCIENCE* – bottle-fed to our kids & grandkids as acceptable slaughter resulting and producing a generation/subculture who believe that physical and spiritual collateral damage is part of the moral framework of living… A form of sub-human meaninglessness whose “EVIL” shadows are cast over an entire planet in the same way the cosmology of lunar eclipses spawn creeping hallows over the land at noon-day…

    This “INVISIBLE COLLEGE” of doctrinaire mercenaries continue to spew LIES* even citing pieces of BIBLICAL* iconography in a last ditch desperate attempt to “RIP” these “ICONS”*** from their contextual matrix and broader gestalt – “IMPOSING” their own esoteric interpretation!!!


  16. @ kiki

    You saw earlier this year the HUFFINGTON POST was bought out by AOL (America Online) for just over 300 MIL. – don’t be surprise if one day DAVID* gets an offer to part with BU… LOL!!!

    Sadly, the FORMAT* would have to change!!! “sigh”

  17. TMB:
    Your misuse of flowery verbosity does not impress, au contraire it confuses your intended posts and readers.
    If by the use of such you intend to attach some sort of authority to your scribblings, I have to inform you we have 30 politicians back home attempting the same trick who have been exposed as empty rattling tin cans, noisy but no substance,

    Cut the crap, and speak your piece.
    Enough of this trashy “A form of sub-human meaninglessness whose “EVIL” shadows are cast over an entire planet in the same way the cosmology of lunar eclipses spawn creeping hallows over the land at noon-day…”

    WTF does that mean to your audience?
    Only displaying an ignorance of vocabulary that blights your message.

    A word to the wise.
    You are no Blake, take it onboard or suffer the fate of the unwise.

  18. @ ZOE

    Thank you for BIBLICAL* example in all matter pertaining to the exegesis of the Word of God…

    As someone versed in ESCHATOLOGY, SIGNS* OF THE LAST DAYS & The APOCALYPSUS* which will bring about the END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT…

    PLEASE EXEGETE* on the following:

    (1) Can you explain Rom. 8:22 -“For we know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time…”

    (2) Also, Luke 21:25 – “And there will be strange signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides…”

    (3) Finally, Matt. 24:14 – “And the Good News about the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, so that all nations will hear it; and then the end will come…”

    Thanks very much!!!

  19. TMB:
    Let me help in a rational way-
    PLEASE EXEGETE* on the following:

    (1) Can you explain Rom. 8:22 -”For we know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time…”

    Inexplicable twaddle we should ignore

    (2) Also, Luke 21:25 – “And there will be strange signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides…”

    500 events worldwide, each day, every day, 365/24/7, it’s called nature.

    (3) Finally, Matt. 24:14 – “And the Good News about the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, so that all nations will hear it; and then the end will come…
    December 22nd 2012 cannot come too soon to expose you doomsayers, scaring the gullible with your ancient poppycock lies,

    Thanks very much!!!


  20. To ROK:
    Like all those who BELIEVE the sort of non sense that you do, I knew that you could not expound anything. Yes, go hide in your corner. For as Terrence so nicely put it, you need FAITH to buttress any fact or theory or law that you so knowingly know. An assumption my ROK is a measure of FAITH. So you are a believer like me and all believers. ROK have have o have faith that DIOP and Moore and the others you so love to mention are talking some thing of value.

  21. @Lemuel
    “An assumption my ROK is a measure of FAITH.”

    Please do not strain at a gnat to ascribe any faith to me. The next thing I will do to you is out you on my ignore list as I am “assuming” that your attempt is to persecute me because I have no belief in your god.

  22. Dr. Robert W. Carter, a highly qualified biologist, has shown convincingly, that the evolutionary map of world migration IS* startingly close to the Biblical ACCOUNT* of a single dispersal of people from Babel. The evolutionary ‘Out of Africa” theory tells us there was a SINGLE dispersal of people, centered near and travelling through the Middle East, with THREE main mitrochondrial lineages, with people travelling in small groups into previously uninhabited territory, and that all of this occurred in the recent past. Every item in that list is something directly predicted by the Tower of Babel account as found in the Bible, God’s Word.

    As Dr. Carter, says:

    “It comes as a surprise to most people to hear that there IS* abundant evidence that the entire human race came from TWO PEOPLE, just a few thousand years ago ( Adam and Eve), that there was a serious population crash ( bottleneck) in the recent past (at the time of the Flood), and that there was a single dispersal of people across the world after (the Tower of Babel). It surprises them even more to learn that much of this evidence comes from EVOLUTIONARY SCIENTISTS. In fact, an abundant testimony to Biblical history has been uncovered by modern geneticists. It is there for anyone to see, if they know where to look!”

    “For our purposes, the most important places to look are in the Y chromosome (which is only found in males and which is passed on directly from father to son) and is the mitrochrondrial DNA ( a small loop of DNA that we nearly always inherit from our mothers only; males do not pass it on to their children). These two pieces of DNA record some startling facts about our past.”

    “Over the last decade, a vast amount of information has been collected that allows us to answer questions that we could not even consider earlier. The tools of modern genetics allow us to specifically ask questions about history, for our genes carry a record that reflects where we came from and how we got to where we are. The tools at our disposal are powerful.”

    As Dr. Carter, so aptly says: Genetics, is NO friend of Evolution! As when this field of study is properly applied to the facts, and evidence, it overwhelmingly supports and confirms Special Creation, negates and refutes evolutionary materialism!!!

  23. Terence, Only against the historic, Biblical account of the fall of man into SIN, through Adam’s wilfull CHOICE to disobey his Creator, Almighty God, which then not only brought a CURSE upon all of mankind, BUT, also UPON all of the Created Order on earth, that Paul then in Romans 8:22, in the context of the whole Creation, “For we KNOW that the whole Creation GROANS and LABOURS with birth pangs TOGETHER until now.”

    “Groaneth and travaileth in pain” (sunstenazei kai sunodinei). Two more compounds with ‘sun’. Both rare and both alone in the N.T. Even NATURE is pictured in the pangs of childbirth, EVERYTHING, animals, plant life, as we KNOW and SEE, are Groaing and travailing under this curse,

    But, let us back up a bit, to verses 18-21, so that verse 22, will make more contextual sense.

    “For I CONSIDER that the SUFFERINGS of this present TIME are not worthy to be compared with the GLORY* which shall be revealed in us.” (v.18)

    “For the earnest expectation of the CREATION eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.” (v.19).

    “For the CREATION was subjected to FUTILITY, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope.” (v.20).

    “Because the CREATION itself also will be DELIVERED from the BONDAGE of CORRUPTION into the GLORIOUS liberty of the children of God.”(v.21)

    Verse 19, Here physical Creation will be redeemed at the consummation of our Redemption (see v.21). This mystical sympathy of physical NATURE, with the work of God’s grace, is beyond the comprehension of most of us. But, who can disprove it?

    Verse 20, ` The whole created Universe has suffered the consequences of human SIN, being SUBJECTED to decomposition, futility and CORRUPTION* . However, that process of deterioration in only temporary, because Almighty God, our Creator, has provided HOPE, absolute ASSURANCE* of deliverance.

    Verse 21, At the time of our final redemption (v.23) Creation ITSELF will be FREE from enslavement to decay and will share our glory.

    The EVIDENCE of ALL that is described in this discourse from God’s Word, the Bible, re the suffering, pain, and CORRUPTION, of not only mankind, but, ALL else in the created order of everything, is KNOWN, and witnessed by everyone, ALL of us, bar none.

    The difference with those of us, who HAVE EXPERIENCED, and KNOW in the very core of our very being, soul/spirit, mind, body, literally, the ABSOLUTE* REALITY* of the TRANSFORMING POWER* of THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, in our lives, DAILY, throughout the world of nations, in every ethnic range of humanity, for THOUSANDS of YEARS,, can say with ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE* not one single DOUBT at ALL, that our FAITH* BELIEF* IS* grounded IN* what we KNOW* because we have PROOVED* HIM* to be TRUE, in all that He has promised here and NOW, therefore, we KNOW* that He WILL fulfill HIS* promises for the consummated EVENTS, that are literally unfolding daily all around us.

    Let the SCOFFING, SCOFFERS*, continue SCOFFRING! Exactly true to form!

  24. To ROK:
    Please put me on your ignore list; then I shall feel relieved that i can engage in serious discussion and not waste time with you who does not even know what he knows. I think I need to bring back that senility thing. You normally are allowed to dominate discussions especially when people are made aware of your knowing of the black/white arts. For the core belief of all belief systems coming out of egyptology all end at the door of the black/white arts. Some of you to get some satisfaction in announcing to others that you practice the white arts instead of the black arts because you do not do any one harm; it is still the same thing with Satan leading you down a garden path. My friend you are the surfer on top of the waves while the sharks beneath ponder the when and where and how of their meal. My ROK go and live your life of superstition for that is what you know you do not know and please put me on your ignore list. let it begin by not responding to this last post to you.

  25. To Zoe:
    I thought you would have gone the extra mile to indicate with your recent posts that this is why scientists shall always get their observations wrong. They are clearly observing a dying universe but their assumption is that that universe is getting batter when it was sick from the day Eve disobeyed. That is why these two points of view can not co exist. The simplicity of it is that they both start at the ends of a truth, but there is no middle in which to meet. Only one view is the truth. Let them scoff; let them laugh; you and Terrence would have ably done your task. The end result can not be held against you.

  26. @lemuel: “They are clearly observing a dying universe but their assumption is that that universe is getting batter when it was sick from the day Eve disobeyed.

    You are taking the piss. And you are wrong.

    Of course the Universe is dying. What do you think Enthalpy is all about?

    We are all dying.

    Deal with it.

  27. I thought god was the universe, hope (s)he ain’t dying too.
    .. as (s)he created everything then (s)he can’t be just a christian and must be a muslim jew budhist hindu atheist god i.e. all of the above up above
    just like the stars above

  28. @ Islangal 246

    I have not been so happy as I am now…….after throwing the bible and religion out the window. Imagine living your life to suit you without fear of fire and brimstone and so-called religious people damning you to hell!

    I raised my son without religion and I think it is the best thing I ever did. I told him when he was small, that if he wanted to join one when he was grown that was his choice, but I had no intention of putting that “millstone religion” on his shoulders.

    All I have left to do now is dig the sweet potatoes, cut the last planting of callaloo (only three beds) for the freezer and pick the remaing eggplants. I already potted and brought in my bonnet pepper, and I will bring in a spinach to eat fresh during the winter (this is Bajan thick leaf spinach). I am only picking a few okras now, the nights are cool and they have slowed down. I had an excellent crop this year. I fed three famalies in the neighborhood.

  29. @pat
    “I have not been so happy as I am now…….after throwing the bible and religion out the window. Imagine living your life to suit you without fear of fire and brimstone and so-called religious people damning you to hell!”

    I was 19 years old when that happened to me. My shoulders got instantly lighter. For those who think that finding Jesus is the ultimate, you ain’t know nothing yet because finding Christ is like finding a quiet corner in the same jail. Letting go of Christ is like being freed from the jail. of course, there are some who get so accustomed to jail life that they don’t know anything else. They frighten to leave the jail even if you leave the gates wide open.

  30. “There is a way (BU Scoffers et al) that seems right to a man. But its END IS* the way of DEATH ( Separation FROM God’s Mercy, Grace, and Love, NOT annihilation, or cessation of consciousness, in Everlasting Misery, and Torment).” (Prov. 14: 12) Emphasis added.

  31. To Chris:
    I noticed that you did not say what it was dying from. Those who seem to follow the Mayans predictions are at least comforted that it shall die and be renewed. But no thinking man or woman can look seriously at what is transpiring around and not see death on the horizon. Space if full of junk although most astronomers have faith in finding some sign of life. Man has proven that he can not rid himself of his carnality and so we love this natural selection where a few control all even if the majority die daily. So some have decided to bury their heads in the sand; hoping against hope that all shall be well. Citizens in most developed countries now realize that the honeymoon of the beautiful life has now become a sad fantasy. Wake up the end is at hand.

  32. To Chris:
    Are you trying to make me into a theoretical physicist. are you hoping that all those big able equations shall so confuse me and drive me mad. Some on this blog would LOVE that. Something when I read the piece on enthalpy caught my attention. There is the assumption that for enthalpy to be present that the space must be defined and pressure must be present. There also seems to be the assumption that what ever the energy that is produced is finite. Are you saying that this could account for that thing that we human call life and that since its genesis it is now waning , thus the physical deterioration that we are witnessing.

    Remember this concept can also be applied to biblical creation with the assumption that God gave us our life force but because of our separation from Him it is waning.

    The difficulty with it though is the presentation of the conditions that would trigger its genesis. For it has to be applied singularly and collectively if the universe is to sustained by it. This my layman’s take on it.

  33. A bit more from Dr. Rob Carter’s Creationist perspective on DNA, and the Origin of mankind.

    “Dr. Carter has published one particularly important paper in a secular journal on human mitrochondrial DNA. Rob explains. “This ia a little circlet of DNA that is found in sub-cellular compartments called mitochondria. These little factories turn sugar into energy and are only inherited from your mother ( according to theory and many experiments). Working with mitochondrial DNA, we can build a family tree of every person in the world,
    going through the female’s lineages only.”

    “What does this show? Dr. Carter explains that evolutionary models have large populations of humans evolving on the plains of Africa over several million years.”

    “Evolutionists expected modern humans to be descended from many female lineages. When they only found ONE*, they invoked a ‘population bottleneck’ as an explanation. That is, the number of people living in Africa supposedly shrank sharply to as few as 1,000-10,000 people – and we only just escaped becoming extinct. They reason that, while many females lived during this bottleneck period, only ONE lineage persisted, with the others going extinct through RANDOM CHANCE. The parallels to the Bible are glaringly OBVIOUS. Genesis tells us clearly that humanity went through a population bottleneck ( the FLOOD, where only 8 people survived), with ONE ultimate female ancestress ( Eve).”

    “Furthermore, Rob shows that there are THREE main mitochondrial lineages spread out on ALL contenents – which IS* consistent with the Biblical teaching that ALL humanity TODAY IS* descended FROM the THREE daughter-in-law of Noah: Even though they were each DIRECT descendants of Eve, each of them would have carried their own particular mutations, picked up in the generations prior to the Flood. After the Flood, their descendants spread out across the world from Babel.”

    These are a few of the salient points and facts, that Dr. Carter’s honest research as both a Christian, and Geneticist have revealed concerning the origin of man, and the known way that DNA works, once again pointing to, and extremely supportive of the Genesis Biblical account of Creation, the Flood, which where only 8 people survived, with ONE ULTIMATE female ANCESTRESS, EVE!!!

    So, to those ‘Scoffers’ and ‘mockers’ the known facts of DNA, from a strictly scientific perspective, and the evolutionary theory, of the ‘population bottleneck’ is amazingly consistent with the Genesis narrative account, in God’s Word, the Bible, once again refuting Evo Mat, and paradoxically ‘dovetailing’ so-to-speak, with what they, the evolutionists, would like to rabidly deny!!!

  34. @lemuel: “Are you trying to make me into a theoretical physicist. are you hoping that all those big able equations shall so confuse me and drive me mad.


    I am simply suggesting that perhaps you et al should read and understand more.

    This is not actually that difficult to understand. And you don’t need to understand mathematics to understand it. It can be explained in plain language.

    In any closed system, as the enthalpy (potential energy) is consumed to do work, the entropy (randomness) of the system increases.

    So then the question becomes, is our universe open, flat or closed?

    In the first two cases, we all die from cold. In the latter, we all die from heat (but our universe might be reborn).

    Why do you think so much money is being spent to try to prove (or disprove) “dark matter”, and to find the “Higgs Particle”?

  35. @All… Just for the record, I have a message “awaiting moderation” from 2011.09.14.1425 with three links of relevance to this discussion.

    Channelling Kiki…

    “Earth calling Major David…

    “Please respond if you can….

  36. To Chris:
    Are really suggesting that without some knowledge of thermodynamics or an undersatnding of its second law that one can apply enthalpy to the origins of life or not be frightened as some are that the second law indicates some decay of the world, as our energy source which is finite is being utilized? Chris stop blowing warm air up my behind or taking the mickey.

  37. @LEMUEL: “Are [you] really suggesting that without some knowledge of thermodynamics or an undersatnding of its second law that one can apply enthalpy to the origins of life or not be frightened as some are that the second law indicates some decay of the world, as our energy source which is finite is being utilized?

    Personally, I always found physics to be a lot easier to understand than Christianity.

    And please understand I grew up in a Christian family. Who do you think I was named after?

  38. To chris:
    For all the talk, you have not commented on my take on enthalpy as it relates to the origin of life. Or on your earlier thoughts on this dying earth. Chris I want you to be a thinking physicist not a learner of laws and rules that is what most of them are.

  39. @lemuel: “For all the talk, you have not commented on my take on enthalpy as it relates to the origin of life.

    Enthalpy is of course important for life. If you don’t have potential energy, then nothing happens. By definition.

    But entropy is even more important for evolution, and critical for sentience.

    We could get into Quantum Mechanics here, but I have reason to believe the audience is bored….

  40. @kiki… LOL…

    60 == (6 * 10) == ((3 * 2) * (5 * 2)) == 2 * 2 * 3 * 5.

    According to others, we appear to be courting…

    Although I would suggest that such a meeting is ill-advised.

    Such potential energy is likely to cause a very large explosion….

  41. Cameroon-Nweh/Bangwa, Mbo Yemba people: origin of modern humans?

    A new study published in March 2013 in the American Journal of Human Genetics,has placed the Bangwa ,

    the Mbo and the Yemba people based in southwest and west Regions of Cameroon at the origin of modern humans. This discovery was developed and published by scientists and geneticists of the University of Arizona, USA after the analysis of the DNA of an Africa American who submitted his DNA for tests so as to trace his family roots. They found that the male Y-chromosome found in this individual dates back to 338,000 years. Y chromosome are the hereditary factor that determine male sex. Unlike autosomal chromosomes, the Y and Mitochondrial chromosome do not mix during meiosis meaning that except for mutations, the Y haplotype remains constant from generation to generation thus enables an analysis to trace family roots. This findings pushes back by 138,000 years, the time that scientist previously believed modern humans first evolved.

  42. Genetics

    1st African American Man Dates Back 338,000 Years

    Mar 7, 2013 09:53 AM ET // by Jennifer Viegas

    A miniscule bit of DNA from an African American man from South Carolina has been traced back 338,000 years, according to a new study.

    The man’s Y chromosome — a hereditary factor determining male sex — has a history that’s so old, it even predates the age of the oldest known Homo sapiens fossils, according to the report, published in the American Journal of Human Genetics.

    The fellow’s chromosome turned out to carry a rare mutation, which researchers matched to a similar chromosome in the Mbo, a population living in a tiny area of western Cameroon in sub-Saharan Africa.

  43. Christopher, maybe one of the fundamental reasons you have failed in your endeavor to grasped the concept of God. Lies squarely in your inability to actuate means by which to attain the power of the Holy-Spirit. The Bible tells us in the New-Testament, that he who has not the power of God belong not to him.

  44. Modern White Europeans are the descendants of the “Second” Albino invasion of Europe: that of the Germanics, Slavs, and Alan’s.
    As described by ancient Greek and Roman historians, these invading “barbarians” were fundamentally “Pure Albinos”.
    The Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus (56-118 A.D.) from his book: Germany Book 1: Describes them thusly; They All have fierce blue eyes, red hair, huge frames, fit only for a sudden exertion. They are less able to bear laborious work. Heat and thirst they cannot in the least endure; to cold and hunger their climate and their soil inure them.
    Herodotus (ca. 400 B.C.): describes them thusly; “they have all deep blue eyes, and bright red hair”.

    Thus when these millions of “New” Albino Asians Invaded the Europe of Black and Mixed-race people, it of course, over time, changed the appearance of all future Europeans. As attested to by the observations of Herodotus and Tacitus: Today’s Europeans are just slightly different from the original second-wave Albinos into Europe – but still changing. Whereas before, they ALL had Red hair and Blue Eyes: today Red hair is the Rarest hair color. Likewise, Blue Eyes are slowly being “Bred-out” by admixture with Normal people:

    “Since the turn of the century, people born with blue eyes in the United States have dramatically decreased, with only about 10 percent having blue eyes today. According to Mark Grant, an epidemiologist from Loyola University in Chicago. During the turn of the last century, the percentage of people with blue eyes stood at 57.4% for those born between 1899 through 1905; and 33.8% for those born between 1936 through 1951. According to Grant, in a study titled “Cohort effects in a genetically determined trait: eye color among US whites.” This decrease in the occurrence of blue eyes is due to many factors, with the majority pointing to the increase in brown-eyed immigrants, mainly Hispanics and Asians, as well as heightened interracial relationships: as the other determinant. Blue eyes, next to green, are the rarest eye color in the world, as people of counties in Asia and Africa possess brown eyes.”

    The reason why modern Europeans are still so close to the “Pure Albinism” of the original Germanics, Slavs and Turks; as opposed to the admixture readily apparent in Asians, Middle-Easterners etc, is that the population of Blacks in Europe was not nearly as large as the Black population in those other places. That was compounded by the flight of Blacks from Europe, when hostilities between Blacks and the first incoming Albinos began: (See the Sea Peoples Exodus circa 1,100 B.C.). Keeping in mind that the “Entire” Dravidian type Albino population was driven out of Asia by the Mongols. This represented untold millions of people: here again, note what Tacitus said concerning just the Germans. Quote: hence too, the same physical peculiarities throughout so “vast” a population. All have fierce blue eyes, red hair, huge frames.

    Clearly then, just the Germans by themselves, represented an overwhelming influx of people. However, a student of genetics might ask : since Europeans are about evenly divided between the Dravidian Y-dna haplogroup “R” and the Y-dna haplogroup “I” of the indigenous Black Europeans, shouldn’t Europeans be Mulattoes – half Black/half White?

    “Once again, Tacitus provides an explanation:

    Germany Book 1

    (On the Germans going into Battle)

    7. They also carry with them into battle certain figures and images taken from their sacred groves. And what most stimulates their courage is, that their squadrons or battalions, instead of being formed by chance or by a fortuitous gathering, are composed of families and clans. Close by them, too, are those dearest to them, so that they hear the shrieks of women, the cries of infants. They are to every man the most sacred witnesses of his bravery–they are his most generous applauders. The soldier brings his wounds to mother and wife, who shrink not from counting or even demanding them and who administer both food and encouragement to the combatants.

    8. Tradition says that armies already wavering and giving way have been rallied by women who, with earnest entreaties and bosoms laid bare, have vividly represented the horrors of captivity, which the Germans fear with such extreme dread on behalf of their women, that the strongest tie by which a state can be bound is the being required to give, among the number of hostages, maidens of noble birth. They even believe that the sex has a certain sanctity and prescience, and they do not despise their counsels, or make light of their answers.

    Clearly the indigenous Black Europeans, were killing German Males, and taking their Females as spoils of War. Thus the offspring gained the ability to produce “Some” Melanin in their skin, and the Males gained a strengthening measure of genetic diversity. But most importantly, the German females were not taken as wives, they were simply “despoiled” and allowed to return to their tribes. Y-dna does not change, it is passed from father to son, regardless of whether the father is Black or White. Thus their “Mulatto” Male offspring would retain the Y-dna haplogroup “I” of their despoiler father. When these mulatto males bred with their tribal White females, their resultant male offspring would be Quadroons (1/4) Black, but still with the Y-dna haplogroup “I” of their despoiler grandfather. When these Quadroon males bred with their tribal White females, their resultant male offspring would be Octoroons (1/8) Black, but still with the Y-dna haplogroup “I” of their despoiler great grandfather – and so on. Of course the opposite is also true on the maternal Mtdna side, a Mulatto female breeding with an Albino Y-dna haplogroup “R” male, would produce Quadroon male offspring with the Y-dna haplogroup “R” of their Albino father.

    R” and the Y-dna haplogroup “I” of the indigenous Black Europeans, shouldn’t Europeans be Mulattoes – half Black/half White?

    – .

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