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David, one the first question…good question. I’ll stop there.
On the second I ‘hear’ insurance re Tomas that destroyed it etc, but I do not know really.
David, did you know that the owner of the horses from St. Kitts was warned off from Jamaica and cant race no horses there nor Trinidad?
Did you know that there is no dope testing in St Kitts?
Did you know that the objectors in 30 runnings never objected to an overseas entry or any entry in the history of the Gold Cup?
Just thought I would throw a little balance on the question of “competition” versus “interest in the sport”
@Just as Friendly
Why did Jamaica warn-off the Kittitian owner?
Was the BTC aware if it is a matter of public record?
Does it matter that there is no dope testing in St. Kitts if there is in Barbados?
The owner was warned off for horse doping.
I do not know what the BTC was aware of.
Yes it does matter. Can you arrive at the Olympics if you have not been subject to dope testing all year? Come on David, I cant believe you asked that really.
Just being being Devil’s Advocate. Suppose it was Apostle crossing Show me the Money would we be here arguing.
The Kittian owner is a Jamaican
Just as Friendly
What is the process for dope testing in Barbados?
In America David, all the horses are dope tested 2 weeks before the Breeders Cup even though all the horses are subject to dope testing in their respective countries.
No horse from St Kitts can leave St Kitts and run in the Breeders Cup or in any race in England.
Horses from Barbados, Trinidad or Jamaica can.
Just trying to add a little balance
As usual David things are a little more complicated that reported in the press.
You surely know that the official sanctioning of a sports meeting is quite important.
I dont know the process only that we comply
@Just as Friendly
Given all you have stated it seems a slam dunk that the Kittitian horses should have been disallowed.
What are we missing?
I gone David
Just throwing a little balance
Everybody beating up on Melnyck
Yes the man vex to find he bring a horse here and 3 horses from St Kitts in the race before his.
Yet the same man is who revitalise the Gold Cup by bringing a Grade 1 horse called Sterwins here and had the crowd wild.
It is the same man who employs Pat Husbands in Canada
The same man who been bringing big horses here for over 10 years for the gold cup
And everybody cussing him because he vex because his horse was not to run but 3 horses from a horse doper was to run.
The same horses cannot enter any race in Canada. He knows it, the turf club got to know it.
As I said David, a little balance
We missing money David, we missing money.
The St Kitts man got money. He is who gets his way not Melnyck
@Just as Friendly
Thanks, appreciate it.
Dont you think the man who horse was “lick down” in gold cup was vex too and lodge an objection too?
Anybody cussing him and saying he is a bad sport??
Balance, David, balance.
Are you “Just as Friendly” or are you one of the frontline owners. Your stripes are showing.
We missing pride too David too.
Once the people took the entry took the money pushing out Melnyck horse, nobody want to back down and say, sh*t we make a blunder
Yes Tell me Why I am a big frontline owner
BIG
Did hear Robert Corbin ‘bigging up’ this Kittitian/Jamaican person saying how he plans to show Bajans/BTC the state of the art race track in St. Kitts etc.
Wondered why that was being promoted.
Maybe it is making some sense now.
Humm maybe we found the source of funds for the new roof ?
Horses got in the race by ratings, not by ‘money pushing out ‘.
And indeed, although one could argue with the handicappers, the reality is that not one overseas horse got in the first five past the line, in that race!
And the only St.Kitts horse in the race ran last year for the US.
As for Apostle objecting, obviously, that was on a clEar race infringement, don’t be silly. There is no track in the world that the race would have stood.
‘Just as Friendly’ is working on damage control, not balance.
As you said David, all horses here are tested and no we cannot go overseas and race just like that.
There is a thing called quarantine that would alter the timing.
But Just Friendly is right, the US has dope testing, although theirs is different from ours, as they are allowed certain substances that we do not use (as I said already), they are in effectively in the same boat as the St.Kitts horses on that score.
What if one is on Lasix?
It would be disqualified, as it should.
Therefore, the issue is that we do testing at the race, under our rules that follow internaitonal rules.
Someone is trying to do damage control David, damage control .
@Friendly
If bystanders were to judge from yours and Just as Friendly one would have to say there is some tension within the BTC fraternity which needs to be resolved.
Am really disappointed at the level to which operations at the Barbados Turf Club have sunk over the years.. Year after Year we having “controversy” over what is supposed to be our premier horseracing event seen worldwide on ESPN and other international stations. What does this say for Barbados? What does it say for the state of the horse racing industry here? That organisation (BTC) needs cleaning up!!! No wonder they are failing to attract sponsors and losing the attractive ones like Digicel, Banks and BNB. Just not value for money. After that $19.2 million tax waiver lifeline in 2008 by the Government and people of Barbados, I beleive we deserve much better from the Barbados Turf Club. My fear is that soon from now, we will not be able to attract top class horses here if we have more of the spectacle we saw in the 2011 edition of the Gold Cup and the 2009 edition (both involing Apostle)…and please do not forget the result of a couple years ago when Melnyk ended up taking the Barbados Turf Club to court
Jalon after watching this race a few times this was nasty work of (tom the piper son) his horse was reversing and his tactics was to pull and have an inquiry into this race, anyhow, the pipers son days are over and you’re the new kid on the block never stop learning this is not the biggest race of your career god have plans for you and you’re spoken about all over America (where you’re called the boss) good luck and hold ya head high you woke the dead saturday this ride was like out of the movies, take care boss see ya
To all the sympathisers
Samuels was wrong FULL STOP and he’s lucky not to be fined. All you who said there was nothing wrong with the ride, obviously knows nothing about horse racing. What was fortunate is that the two horses were a distance ahead of the rest of the field, had they been bunched, when Trotman had to brake suddenly, it could have caused a pileup and some horses and jockeys would have been seriously injured. However, the young man is a good rider with a lot of potential and on reflection he would see his mistake and stop trying to be so cocky and concentrate on the job he is good at. The race is not over until you pass the finish line.
@ Scout
You may wish to enquire why it is the Barbados Turf Club and Barbados as a country is the only jurisdiction which adopted the English rules of racing that has amended the interference rule to make a disqualification mandatory resulting from the infraction.
Clearly you don’t understanding racing and more importantly you dont understanding that racing in Barbados is predominantly an old boys Club where the rules of racing have been tweaked to allow a merit winner (first cross the post) to be disqualified and placed behind the horse whom he is alledged to have impeded.
The proper rule, is that the jockey should be fined for the infraction and horse remain as the winner providing it cannot be shown that his winning the race resulting directly as a consequence of taking inappropriate and advantageous action (taking another horses racing room).
@ Scout
In other words, Show Me the Money was the merit winner, a known result and notwithstanding the minor infraction, Show me the Money would have always won the race based on the performance in the race.
Someone ought to see how many time Anderson Trotman has used this tactic before to upset merit winners, especially considering he seems to like using it when his animal is beaten and going backwards.
Friendly, I think you need to brush up on your knowledge of the Rules.
Your claim that no track in the world would not disqualify Apostle is quite incorrect.
In the UK, if found guilty of careless riding, the stewards need only disqualify if the horse has improved his position.
The stewards could take the view, a view shared by many at the race, that the horse won on merit anyway.
The UK rules are designed to protect the punter who bet on the winner who won on merit.
Our rules, more closer to the French rules, protect the owner who suffered place money as a result of the infringement.
Your comments on doping are disingenuous.
The US while lenient on pain killers or lasix provide quite clearly against training and racing on steroids or growth hormones.
At the moment leading US trainer Dutrow is in trouble for simply being in possession of needles.
If you are found to have steroids in your barn you are in big trouble.
What anti rules are there in St. Kitts?
I also have it on good authority that the UK jockey on the St Kitts horse rode without providing the clearance document required by the rules.
The declared trainer for one of the St Kitts horses was the same as the jockey ! (quickly and quietly fixed, a perk not granted to ordinary people)
It would seem that the St Kitts horses were able to race and break rules as they would like.
The disqualification reference should be to Show Me the Money and not Apostle of course
David,
For the benefit of readers, attached is the youtube video where CBC explains the disqualification.
At .53 into the video, you clearly see the infraction.
Note that at this point, Samuels has begun to wind up on Show Me The Money, but Trotman has not yet used his whip much on Apostle, just when he goes to use it turning into the straight, is when he is not only crossed, but bumped by Show Me The Money, whose hindquarters rub into Apostle.
It cannot be ascertained at this stage whether Apostle would not have won, because as I said, Trotman has not really gone to work yet and Apostle has always fought on.
In fact, if you forward to 2:40, you will see a different view, showing that Trotman has only used the whip ONCE, and is now ready to begin real work, drawing it a second time, when he is severely hampered.
How many times did Samuels use the whip after that episode? Around nine. He stretched out Show Me The Money for all he was worth.
Either horse could have won.
Also, in terms of the racing fraternity, as I said, I have nothing to do with it, I am only a humble fan.
Video did not post.
Go to youtube and search the following link>>
Sandy Lane Gold Cup 2011 Final Result
THANKS FOR THE INPUT ON TOM THE PIPERS SON, I’M SO GLAD THAT SOMEONE ELSE MENTION ON HIS RIDING TACTICS CLEARLY HE HAD SOME ROOM ON THE INSIDE AS SHOW ME THE MONEY WAS MOVING AWAY FROM HIM, IN MY OPINION A FINED FOR WHAT, PLEASE PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE RACE ANNOUNCER HE NEVER MENTION THAT TOM AND HIS HORSE WAS IN PROBLEMS WHERE HE HAD TO PULL TOM, WE THINK YOU’RE JEALOUS OF THE BOSS NOW THE SPOTLIGHT IS ON HIM
@Friendly
How do you respond to the earlier assert that the jockey should have been fined as would have happened in England by Racing Insider?
KPGM
For your information, it wasn’t me who disqualified Show Me The Money, therefore don’t say that I don’t know anything about racing. Also for your information I worked at the BTC on race days in earlier times, the infringment was too blatant and ANYWHERE there is professional horse racing that horse and rider would have been disqualified. I too have a lot of time for young Jalon Samuels but when he is wrong, he is wrong, this is NOT the first time that he did something stupid. The problem with many people today is that LAWS must always be adjusted to suit a person or an incedent, Samuel should know the rules of racing and follow them. I hope he uses this incedent to teach him a lesson in decent sportsmanship.
@Friendly
Ref comment on March 6 4.35p.m
“”It falls under the banner of life.
No! it falls under the banner of DISHONESTY!
Anyhow are you really trying to compare athletes who used performance drugs “knowingly” to an animal who is injured and whose owners would willingly put that horse in a high profile race. Also knowing that the horse chances ofwinning be small. First of all as an animal rights activist I find this most appalling and disgusting.
Secondly unlike the athlete. The horse can not make any decision as to whether it can perform an in the race it is all up to the owner or trainers .
Comparing the athelte to a horse is like comparing apples with with oranges when it comes to decision making . The horse can’t decide , but the athlete can.The poor sick or injured animal depends on others to make a decision which should be utmost importance to for the well being of the animal..
David, per Insider , In the UK, if found guilty of careless riding, the stewards need only disqualify if the horse has improved his position.The stewards could take the view, a view shared by many at the race, that the horse won on merit anyway.
But, as I said above either horse could have won until the incident, therefore he did improve his position, by Apostle being hindered.
AC, but Rockamadour DID NOT RUN, what is the issue? The connections obviously realised that he was not able to and withdrew, he did not run. Entering a horse is very different from him facing the starter. Up till they entered he must have been okay, but with work injuries can reappear. That is normal.
@Friendly,
The facts are not quite as you would like.
Only these 3 big races in the entire year are officially vetted.
The connections did not withdraw the horses, they were failed by the vet.
About 7 horses failed the vet on saturday from just those 3 races including one horse flown in from St Kitts.
Without the vetting it is almost certain all 7 horses would have faced the starter.
These are disturbing facts
@Just asfriendlyYour comment is truly disturbing and it leaves some doubt in my mind as to whether the well being of the animal is given first preference . Are you saying that during the year horses with injuries are not vetted and allowed to race if decided by connections. If so this is truly alarming! As an animal rights activist I would cleary be looking into this aspect !
During the year there is no vet exam for ordinary races.
Obviously if the vet while at the race sees an injured horse he would get the stewards to scratch.
That is NOT the same as the vet exams for each horse in the 3 big races at Gold Cup day. The vets actually visit the horse and thoroughly examine it.
Friendly would like you to believe that a vet just looking on is the same. If so why the sudden alarming increase in failed horses when a proper exam is done.
It is very worrying that once this proper exam is done 7 horses are failed from just 3 races. I could understand one or maybe two.
It is not good, there is no way around it.
It is not good that we let horses race here from a country without anti doping rules. There is no way around it.
Some people just cant face the facts and its better to attack those who would “object”
@ Just friendly, I wholeheartedly agree with you.Most disturbing is the fact that the connectors would willingly subject their horse knowingly.
The government of Barbados has given debt relief to the Barbados Turf Club (BTC) paid for by the taxpayers of Barbados.
We hope that the management practices alluded to in the above exchanges are improved and the process becomes more transparent.
The Gold Cup has become an international event and we hope the myopia of a few does not lead to the killing of the hen that is laying the golden egg.
BU invites submissions from those of you commenting, who are obviously in the know, about matters at the BTC, sometimes it is the only way to keep things honest in the absence of full disclosure being practised by the principals,
Do any ofyou expect transparentcy to be enforced on the stewards at the BTC when these modern day politicians can’t even show trnsparentcy among themselves? It is all part of the rat race, you scratch my back, I scratch yours. Negro Man, that’s what I’m talking about, the more things change, the more they remain the same. The DLP government is disappointing me or maybe I expected a greater level of accountability from them, maybe I’m asking for too much, that’s why I’m so critical.
Looks like Lord Taylor’s action has negated some of the comments below:
By Ezra Stuart | Tue, March 08, 2011 – 12:11 AM
SHOW ME the evidence for disqualification!
In a new twist to the controversial running of the 30th Sandy Lane Gold Cup, Lord Michael Taylor said yesterday he would be appealing the decision of the Barbados Turf Club’s (BTC) stewards to disqualify his “winning” horse, Show Me The Money.
Lord Taylor told the Daily Nation yesterday that he wanted to have a thorough look at all the available video footage from last Saturday’s 1 800 metres race at the Garrison Savannah that attracted entrants from Canada, the United States, St Kitts and Barbados.
“I have no axe to grind and I am not vengeful and have no dispute with the stewards, but we are going to appeal the decision of the stewards,” he said.
The prominent horse-owner, who is also a BTC director, pointed out that under the rules he had seven days to appeal but would be lodging his appeal to the BTC’s appellate stewards within the next 24 hours.
“I’m not laying blame at anyone and I’m prepared to abide by the rules of the Turf Club, but it would be foolhardy of me, once I’m party to all the evidence which I’m gathering, not to explore the legal process which is opened to all horse owners,” he said.
“It is incumbent on me, in fairness to my trainer, my jockey, my groom and all my staff, to investigate thoroughly the circumstances surrounding the case and then make a judgment as to whether it was fair or otherwise,” he added.
Show Me The Money crossed the finish line well ahead of the other horses. However, the connections of one of the race favourites, Apostle, lodged an objection against champion jockey Jalon Samuel.
The stewards found Samuel guilty of “careless riding” and placed Show Me The Money behind Apostle, who had finished second last.
“While I respect the decision of the stewards and it would be terrible for me to cast judgment, it doesn’t stop me from questioning their decision if the evidence shows conflict with their decision,” Lord Taylor said.
“This is a major incident, a most unusual thing that has happened. The horse won the race on merit, whatever the circumstances, but if it is proven to be correct that the jockey infringed the rules, I have to accept the decision and will accept it in good faith.”
He insisted that there were no sour grapes on his part. “All I want is fairness and to make sure that justice is being done all around and that there is no doubt in anybody’s mind at the end of the day that the decisions that the stewards reached are the decisions that should be made, I will abide by those decisions,” he commented.
The Englishman said he had no beef with the husband and wife team of Derek and Gay Smith, whose horse, Zoom, has been awarded the glittering Gold Cup trophy and the $115 000 first prize.
“I don’t want to discredit the people who were awarded the race. It has nothing to do with them. They are good sport,” he said.
This is a interesting twist to the Gold Cup, all I can say is I hope maturity prevails and that the true winner will be horse racing in Barbados. This is a Battle Royal by the heavy weights and I don’t even want a front seat, I prefer to sit in the back and watch it fom a distance. The participants are COW, Haloute, Taylor, BTC and of course the Smiths. Maybe this battle can be framed and the winner already chosen, if it gets nasty it can spell the end of the Sandy Lane Gold Cup. They are all adults and needs to behave that way. What is ironic about the whole situation is that among these heavy weights, is a little lightweight young man who cause the controversy.
Great job Mr. Taylor what took you so long, the tapes have all the evidence, and show me the money was the clear winner the decision of the stewards can be questionable and the tactics of tom the pipers son, this is a difficult task but you are doing the correct thing. I hope something positive come out of this, Jalon dont worry this is just icing bigger things down the road for you boss, people are saying you’re the best thing since slice bread. Take care
Listened to Haloute on one of the radio stations today suggesting that Apostle was in a position to win and if Trotman didn’t react the way he did jockeys and horses might have been dead. Did not hear all of it.
“People are saying you are the best thing since slice bread!
I wunda what they saying now. Look at the ruckus he s causing . This controversy is being watched worlwide.
I guess Lord Taylor gonna have to lose a second time .
The BTC should ensure that:-
1. All the video footage, especially those used and considered by the race day Stewards are made available to Lord Michael Taylor.
2. None of the race day Stewards are permitted to sit as Appellate Stewards during the appeal.
3. The transcript of the race day Stewards, especially those surrounding the Gold Cup race are made available to Lord Michael Taylor.
4. An investigation into the riding conduct of jockey Anderson trotman to see whether he is guilty of not riding out his horse to the detriment of the wagering public.
5. Commence an immediate referendum of the members of the BTC to see whether there is an appitite to change the interferance rule which leads to mandatory disqualification.
Can someone tell me who were the race stewards adjudicating that Gold Cup Race and is there any appearance of bias or history with any of the complainaints?
T mentioned earlier that had Trotman’s mount collided with Samuels mount when they were in full stride and the horse and/or jockey had fallen it could have caused a mass pileup and that would have been disasterous. I think Trotman did the right thing, whether or not the horse shoe came off because of the sudden halt or whether or not the horse lost its stride is debatable but the fact is the horse was interfered with by Show Me The Money.
Still the best thing, no matter what you all have to say, he won hands down, people are wondering if the btc had money to pay people who place bets on show me the money lol or you spent the 19 million handout, we’re with out national hero (17)yearold (J boss S who’s more popular than the (pm)
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