Submitted by Crusoe (as a comment on the Haiti We Are Sorry blog
You list some good ideas for the structural retransformation of Haiti [Responding to Commenter Dictionary on the Haiti We Are Sorry blog]. Each in of themselves they do not depend on improved education but do depend on improved technical training (farming etc). However, for all, the long-term success of those initiatives individually and collectively leading to a successful Haiti will certainly also depend on improved education, if as we have been informed, the literacy level is so low.
This has two implications.
Firstly, immediately after initial search, rescue, medical, temporary (short and medium term) and security issues have been addressed as priority, the early reformation must include an immediate education programme, for adult and youth, such that the transformation of Haiti can begin with the active participation of her people, not as ‘serfs’ but as active individuals and communities with an understanding of the reasoning behind the methods and the aim of the methods.
I must add, that ‘transformation’ in this context is not meant to refer to bringing Haiti to the same philosophical outlook as anyone other specific group. In this context it is meant to refer to bringing Haiti to a level of self-capability and self-determination. Now, to expect say a three or four year ‘crash course’ in education and technical skills may seem either impossible or unrealistic, but unfortunately, if this is not done as one of the foundations of the rebuilding (in the context of not only structural, but as a nation of people), than all else may eventually prove futile.
This is obviously along the lines of the old phrase of teaching a man to fish instead of giving him the fish. Merely putting up structures, farms etc may certainly alleviate some misery, but while in the short term foreign contractors etc may gain much from the aid given for this purpose, the long-term goal should be to have Haitians and not only elite, but the everyday Haitian, benefit from money flows and thus create an independent people and a vibrant economy.
It is my view therefore Caricom leaders, should address the education of Haiti, as a priority, as much a priority as any other redevelopment effort.
To reinforce a point, the initial effort must not only be to set up an improved schooling system, but implement as an interim measure, an ’emergency education programme’, with the help of international authorities and the Haitian authorities. If one wants a long-term Haiti, this is essential.
We must give thanks yet again, that Errol Barrow saw the necessity of education as a developmental tool. And, we must forever resist ANY attempts to take free education from Barbadians. Indeed, those of us who wish for an improved world, must seek the furtherance of a sound even if basic education, for all peoples, as a necessity for development.
1,421 responses to “The Reconstruction And Transformation Of Haiti: A Global-Moral Imperative”
Back on topic:
Let us look again at the India business incubator video here:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nfISHC0bXM&hl=en_US&fs=1&]
Then, let us address these questions:
1] Why is India focussing on incubators for small and medium sized (and micro) enterprises, with an emphasis on distributed development — as opposed to big city development?
2] What are the existing strategic assets for enterprise and where are the gaps they are spotting?
3] How are they setting about bridging these, and fostering a culture of widespread successful entrepreneurship in India?
4] Why is it that one entrepreneur — who did not initially have his father’s blessing — find it possible to live on the incubator’s campus for three years [while hosting his enterprise in Bldg A1 IIRC for 5 – 6 years], and why did he speak of the training and support programme there as comparable to an MBA in enterprise?
5] What about the women’s micro-enterprise incubator programme, and the attached college for women?
6] What lessons and pointers can we draw for Haiti and for the wider Caribbean? (Note especially how the Indians are plainly looking over their shoulders at China.)
7] From this, how could an incubator strategy be deployed in Haiti — and in the wider region — with what “backative”?
8] How could such an initiative be cross-linked to agriculture development and creation of a sustainable construction industry?
9] And?
_______________
Come now, let us reason together on a gravely important matter . . .
D
The UK charity song Everybody Hurts hits number one .
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8515255.stm
@ Dictionary// February 15, 2010 at 7:00 AM
h –> You will find that he historic Christian faith runs in an unbroken line of testimony and solid scholarship all the way back to the NT. Here is a cite from the first circle of writing Fathers, c. 100 AD, in words that are very close indeed to the well-known Apostles’ creed and the Nicene creed, and of course tot he substance of the creedal hymns and sayings recorded in the NT, such as in 1 Cor 15:1 – 11, Phil 2:5 – 11, Heb 1:1 – 14 [which could have been purpose-written to correct LDS errors] etc etc, and the recorded early sermons:
……………………………………………………
Now, Sir, this is where I have a great problem.
So, do you expect me to believe that mankind being what & who they are would have kept the “historic Christian faith” all clean,neat and properly contained, as the Lord so wished, down through the ages in an “unbroken line of testimony” and that you would now find a “solid line of scholarship all the way back to the NT times”? All I can reply to that is, REALLY!! And the Nicene Creed which came out of the council of Nicea (Nicaea) in AD 325, well, don’t lets waste any time and go there at all! Can you ever imagine that mankind would keep doctrine all correct and tidy through out all this time!? Remember the struggle Moses had with his people after only THREE DAYS of leaving them on their own to go up the mountain. I believe he had to execute something like 3000 people to get things back on course! Mr. Dictionary, that was only something like THREE DAYS, not even a week!! What about the Apostle PAUL who we all know had to be continually correcting the Saints on false doctrine which they were only too eager to grasp at times. And you wish me to believe that mankind would keep so true to the faith on their own after all this time had passed, not just THREE DAYS! Remember that the last of those who had been exposed to the teachings and examples of Jesus The Christ had by 100 AD all been dead! So where was the so called “unbroken line of testimony” that you so loftily spoke about? Remember, we all know what can happen to “a testimony” in man if it is not continually, closely nurtured! Next thing you will be telling me and expecting me to believe was that Peter, the Apostle of the Lord was the “first pope” of the RC church!! If what you claim is true,where then is the Great Apostasy that was supposed to have taken place in the last days of this current dispensation? Where is the Restoration that was to be accomplished before our Lord could make his Grand appearance once more to reclaim HIS Church!! Or, maybe you would want me to believe that these are not the “Last Days” in which we live?
I may be unlearned and without letters after my name, a FOOL even, according to “Mr” Zoe & Dr. GP but I do believe that I have access to the HOLY SPIRIT as is my God-given right! Ah Lie??
As for the quote by Ignatius the Martyr, isn’t that well recorded in the Gospels?
You just have to love the way this man mixes his subtly condescending remarks with the rebuilding ideas. He takes aim at everyone and smartly hides his nitpicking (or bruised ego) after repeatedly saying “he done”, accuses others of hijacking, when in truth it is his ‘buddy’ who has done it without apology, yet he demands apology from others for their thoughts.
The man is a real piece of work!!
Is this what it means to be learned and brilliant?
The Interpreter Needs to Recognize the Unity of the Spirit and the Word.
Without exception, every ‘cult’ system HAS claimed to receive some ‘new’ revelation by their new-found prophet, WHICH always *contradicts* by either adding TO, or taking away FROM, the historic divine revelation of the Holy Spirit, AND the written Word, that *He* inspired in God’s Word, the Bible.
IF, one starts out wrong, that is, using unbiblical, erroneous interpretation of God’s Word, the Bible, with NO set criterior of sound Hermeneutics, THEN, one is entirely open to deception.
The Spirit (Holy Spirit) and *Word* the Bible AGREE ( 1 John 5: 7, 8). The Holy spirit *inspired* the Word, and SO will NEVER contradict it. No person can claim illumination by the Spirit in his interpretation of ANY passage, IF, that interpretation IS in conflict with OTHER passages of Scripture. The believer MUST discern between the spirit of TRUTH and the spirit of ERROR. (1 John 4: 1-6). The spirit of ‘error’ can take a verse and purport it to say opposite of that which the spirit of truth is saying, when in reality NO verse can be made to contradict another verse. The Holy Spirit WILL NEVER communicate to the mind of the believer ANY doctrine or meaning of Scripture which IS NOT already in Scripture itself. (Interpreting The Scriptures, p.12).
The Interpreter Must be Intellectually Honest.
Jesus said that an honest heart is good ground in which the SEED of the Word may grow and bear fruit (Luke 8:15). If there is not intellectual honesty the interpreter can make the Word say whetever he desires. The dishonest interpreter can make the Scripture support any FALSE doctrine he wishes to disseminate ( 11 Cor. 2; 11 Peter 3:15, 16; Eph. 4:14). The false cults in Christendom, with their corrupt system of hermeneutics, are NOT intellectually honest. Rather, they twist the words of Scripture to suit their doctrine, deceiving thousands of people
Scripture, the Word of God, DOES NOT contradict itself, anywhere, because there IS *unity* throughout God’s Word, when IT is soundly and correctly interpreted, AND, it is absolutely necessary that the one seeking to ‘righty’ divide His Word, must be indwelt by the Holy Spirit, WHO *never* ever, guides, leads or teaches, contrary to the Word that He inspired.
Therefore, whenever, some so-called new prophet comes along with some new revelation, and IT contradicts the Word, the Bible, IT must be rejected as a ‘spirit’ of error!
There IS NO, “Another Testament of Jesus Christ’ as is written on ‘The Book of Mormon’ a copy of which I have right before me!
As the Mormons do, they pray and ask God with a sincere heart if this ‘Book of Mormon’ is true, they then claim that the spirit of God tells them, yes!
Well, it most certainly WAS NOT the Spirit of God that said yes to them, IT was a ‘spirit’ masquerading as the Holy Spirit, because they rejected what the Holy Spirit HAS ALREADY said in the Bible, DO NOT ADD, nor take AWAY from His Word, lest you be found a liar! (Deut. 4:2; Prov. 30: 5,6; Rev. 22: 18,19).
Proper application of God’s Word IS dependent upon proper interpretation. All exposition, preaching, and teaching MUST, therefore, be based on the appropriate exercise of the sound principles of hermeneutics, exegesis, and Biblical theology; without which, all kinds of false, erroneous, interpretions with erupt into terribly deceived cult systems, and there are many!
Almighty God has given to humanity certain logical laws, by which to analyse any two competing ‘Truth claims’ as they both CANNOT be right. the Law of Non-Contradiction in logic, emphatically state, that TWO comepeting Truth Claims CANNOT be both right.
Almighty God’s Word, in His sealed Canon, the Bible, IS an absolute truth claim; Mormonism comes along 1700 years after the FACT, and violates that absolute Truth Claim, by ADDING to and taking AWAY from God’s Word, claiming it is ‘Another Testament of Jesus Christ, ‘The Book of Mormon’
Because NO lie or deception, can gain any momentum without getting a ‘piggy-back’ ride on truth, Joseph Smith Jr, hijacked some of God’s Word from the Bible, mixing IT with this erroneous deception from some masquerding demon ‘spirit, called Moroni, with blatant and downright *contradictions* to Almighty God’s Word, in both the Old and New Testaments.
Sorry, Hood, but, I have to say it as it IS, from the Word of God, the Bible!
@ Dictionary
Isaiah 24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the cordinance, broken the eeverlasting covenant.
……………………………………………………
Do we need any further evidence about mankind changing doctrine etc.?
……………………………………………………
And again from Isaiah:-
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
……………………………………………………
And again Amos 8:11-13
11 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
13 In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.
……………………………………………………And you, Sir, trying to tell me what…………………?
…….that we have an **”historical Christian faith in an unbroken line going back to New Testament times”**??
We might have the faith but not uncorrupted doctrine!!
2 Thess. 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
……………………………………………………
Now for the Restoration/Restitution as taught in Acts 3:20-21
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
……………………………………………………
I supposed you also going to try to get me to believe that that rogue Henry 8 was “divinely appointed” as well!
Or that new “prophet” (prophetess) in yesterday’s Nation is now our “divinely” selected spokesperson for God.
May God have mercy on your soul!
@the hood, Feb 15, 2010 @ 10:45AM, to Dictionary.
“Remember that the last of those who had been exposed to the teachings and examples of Jesus The Christ had by 100 AD all been dead! So where was the so-called “unbroken line of testimony” that you so loftily spoke about.”
Hood, man, by 100AD, yes, all of the divinely inspired writers of God’s Word, in the New Testament were dead. Correct! BUT, the Word of God, with ALL of its DOCTRINE, ‘…which WAS *ONCE* for ALL delivered to the saints’ (Jude) was already widely circulated among the NT Churches, and CONTINUED on throughout ( Circa 100 AD and continuing) as WAS cited by many of the Post Apostolic fathers, and this WITNESS, ‘unbroken line of testimony’ never CEASED, not even in the face of rampant apostasy, which started in the very NT Church, and necessitated the very polemic and hard corrections that we find in the VERY NT Scripture!
Hood, your mind is so polluted, confused, with this Mormon nonsense, that you just can’t grasp the truth!
You have SO much unlearing to DO, in order to begin grasping the Truth, so typical of those trapped in Cult systems,
Dictionary, GP and me in pervious threads, have already dealt with the Roman Catholic nonsense, and their corrupt system of dogma and theology!
@GP
At issue here maybe explained by what the most rev archbishop hon Dr. John Holder was reported in the news yesterday. He was heard to tell his priest to go out and spread the word, with love.
First David
I must say that nowhere in the NT- not even the apostle Paul had a title such as “the most rev archbishop hon”.
From whence did these titles come?
Also what does he mean by ” spreading the Word” Is he referring to evangelizing or engaging in the great commission?
Re “in love” did Jesus not teach in love or with love? Did Peter and Paul and Jude and James not teach in love too.
Read Jesus’ scathing denounciation of the religious leaders of his day. Did he not call them a generation of vipers and whited sepulchres?
Did Paul not refer to his own converts in the church in the church he started at Galatia as FOOLISH GALATIANS who wre bewitched?
Do he think that the prophet Isaiah or Jeremiah not love thier coutry men when they railed on them?
Read what was said by the priest/judge. prophet Samuel.
Read the writings and actions of the prophet Elijah. Did he not act in love?
What does the Bishop mean by in love?
What does the Bible say about teaching the Word David?
Would you say Mr David that when Paul wrote these verses from 2 Tim 3 that he was giving advice in love?
II Timothy
Chapter 3
1. This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3. Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4. Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5. Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7. Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their’s also was.
Would you say that in 2 Timothy 4 Paul was preaching in love too?
II Timothy
Chapter 4
1. I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2. Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4. And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
want t teaching in love no
Onlookers:
Predictably, the main issue is being ducked, doged and distracvted from.
Sad, but we can surely do better.
Notes:
TH:
The evidence is there for boththe NT and the church, and as well for mormonism; and you have been invited to examine the objective facts.
I am not entertaining debates on the matter, I just acted for information. (And BTW, I updated the link on the errors of skepticism to include some key extracts from the second link, so why not start there? Check out he pattern that he NON-Christian sources at the close of the Apostolic era were saying about the Nt faith and praxis as the second generation of leadership emerged with the martyrdom of the apostles. Yes, there have been many heresies and apostasies, but here has never been an actual break in the chain of custody and evidence on the historic authentic faith delivered once for all to the saints, and the life of the Spirit transformed has showed just as consistent a pattern of resurrection power through the gospel in the face of Jesus the Lamb of God.)
But, there is a much bigger general issue on the table than minor debates on points that can be settled by doing a few days’ worrth of serious reading in credible sources.
Sorry, but you now have a duty to the truth you know or can easily know.
_________
Technician:
It is sadly interesting that you can find time to discern subtle personalities and arrogance etc on my part and to snipe at them — while ignoring slander, vulgarity and indeed outright calls to arson on the other side — but not time to look at the many technical issues that are on the table as we look at what Haiti needs.
Surely we can do better than this.
Why not take some time to look at the OLPC issue and the idea of digitalising education using networked micro-campus centres and Moodle etc?
What about an “adult” version for HS and Coll students, teachers, apprentices, etc? [I love that 2,000 recharges battery! Typical laptops go out after 500 recharges. ter are those who counsel running he laptop without the battery to conserve it. And Note the XO-1 weighs in at ~ 1 W consumption so the battery will last a goodly length between charges. And US$ 10/ pack is a lot better than the typical replacement costs.]
What about the proposed XO-3 slate?
The Sugar educational application interface?
Linux, the underlying OS?
And on the linux apps front is Gnu Cash a reasonable accounting package for the rest of us, or can it be fixed up to do a Q-books lite like Open Office is on MS Office?
And . . . ?
Let’s try the NYT video again:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBoghPvyhts&hl=en_US&fs=1&]
Okay, can we find a way to work together on a great challenge?
G’day
Dictionary
@ Zoe // February 15, 2010 at 11:38 AM
Sorry, Hood, but, I have to say it as it IS, from the Word of God, the Bible!
……………………………………………………
I am sorry too, “Mr.” Zoe, but I,too, have to say it as it IS, from the Word of God, the Bible!
@the hood, True to form, you have, as usual, again, lifted the Word of God, entirely out of context,(Acts. 3: 20-23) and naturally, implying, the Mormon nonsense of Jeseph Smith, Jr, being the end-time prophet.
Hood, you CANNOT just lift verses 20-23 out of CONTEXT, from the preceding and following verses, to SUIT your twisted, Mormon pretext! Exactly what Mormonisn and other Cults do! Erroneous hermeneutics, entirely false interpretation!
The ‘spirit’ that leads you and Mormons, IS MOST certainly not the Holy Spirit, as *He* DOES NOT lead, teach and guide contrary to the Word of God, the Bible, which Mormonisn seriously and baltantly contradicts!
the hood // February 15, 2010 at 12:24 AM
@GP
“….and BTW, I have never heard anyone correctly Edivide the word who was not spirit led. I john 2:20 & 27 teaches that the Spirit is the believers resident tutor…..”
……………………………………………………
You will understand, Dr. that this is what presents a great problem to me.
How do you KNOW that the word is being divided CORRECTLY?
If I told you that 1 + 1= 5 You would say that?
If I told you that CAT is the spelling of DOG. You would say that?
The fact that 2 Tim 2:15 tells that the word can be rightly be divided would suggest to me that it can also be WRONGLY divided, do you think?
If I told you that Jesus did not come in the flesh, that would be WRONGLY dividing the Word of Truth.
If I told you that the treatment for acute appendicitis was to do an orchidectomy, would I be right or wrong?
How do you rightly divide the Word of truth? 2 Tim 2:15 says by STUDY!
Re And by what Spirit is it being divided?
If you have blatantly misinterpreted a text which Spirit do you think is leading you Sir?
Re Aren’t we all born with the Spirit/Light of Christ within us?
Which Scripture teaches this Sir?
Re And, except if we deny the growth of this Spirit to the point of incompatibility, don’t we all have the right to the influence of said Spirit/light of Christ ? Right or wrong?
Again where does the Scripture teach this about the Holy Spirit?
Some time ago (just as I mentioned to you yesterday) I wrote on BU about Systematic Theology & The Doctrine of the Holy Spirit (aka Pneumatology) and I was laughed to scorn.
Now the Systematic Theology of the Doctrine of the Holy Spirit involves collecting ALL the verses and passges in the scriptures . This facilitates a full understanding of the Biblical Teaching about the Holy Spirit and permits the Topical study or the teaching of this subject as a topic.
Am I making sense.
I can assure you that if you did this, you will find that your view is not supported by the scriptures on the Holy Spirit. This is to an extent what we mean when you hear Zoe or I talk about Hermeneutics.
Hermeneutics is not some esoteric super duper thing it is just simple STUDY and SEARCHING OF THE SCRIPTURE. Fortunately others have done much of this work for us, so we can take short cuts and buy a text book of Systematic Theology, such as Evans’ Great Doctrines of the Bible or Thiessen’s Systematic Theology.
Now you dont have to agree with me or take my advice. But this is how countless numbers of believers have mastered cewrtain TOPICS or areas of the Scriptures.
If you came out of the Anglican Church or many other established churches, much of this might be new to you. But I see it as no different to when I went to Medical school of having to buy Texts for Anatomy, Physiology, Embryology, Histology, Pharmacology, Pathology etc.
I hope this makes some kind of ;ogical sense.
@ David
BTW the concept of teaching with love is found in the PAULINE EPISTLES!
Read Paul’s sermons in Acts and his Epistles and see what is idea of love was.
John also speaks of this love in 2 John. but read the short sharp sayings of John in 1 John!
@the Hood, So far, you have NOT correctly quoted one SINGLE verse of the Bible, in its proper context, not ONE!
Each and every time you make a MESS of God’s Word, because, the underlying ‘pretext’ of all your interpretations, are BASED on the downright FALSEHOOD of Mormonism!
Darkness, being used to interpret LIGHT, the Glorious Light of the Gospel of Christ, as revealed *ONCE* for all in the NT Scripture (Jude).
@ Zoe // February 15, 2010 at 12:36 PM
*He* DOES NOT lead, teach and guide contrary to the Word of God, the Bible, which Mormonisn seriously and baltantly contradicts! And so endeth the WORD of ZOE.
…………………………………………………..
It is “Mr.” Zoe and those other enemies of the Restored Gospel who CLAIM that “Mormonisn seriously and blatantly contradicts ” God’s word!
So sayeth the WORD of ZOE , the Most High Learned One :-
“Each and every time you make a MESS of God’s Word, because, the underlying ‘pretext’ of all your interpretations, are BASED on the downright FALSEHOOD of Mormonism”
…………………………………………………..
Of course we all know that the “WORD of ZOE” is Gospel and cannot be doubted or questioned.
I knew all that kiss and make up nonsense was a sham!!
Wunna had me tho….LOL!!
the hood //
Re your response to Dictionary at February 15, 2010 at 11:57 AM
@ Dictionary
Re I supposed you also going to try to get me to believe that that rogue Henry 8 was “divinely appointed” as well!
It depends on what you mean by appointed! Henry was used to Authorize a translation of the Bible into English for the English people who up to then could not read the Bible for themselves. They were at the tie laboring under the RC misinterpretation of 2 Peter 1:20.
The RC’s taught that the layman could not interpret the scriptures for themselves. But that text teaches that scripture must be compared with scripture for proper interpretation.
If you read the Bible through you will find many instances of God “appointing” or using rogues to do his bidding. Read Habakuk, and you will find that this prophet had great difficulty understanding that. Read the historical books of the OT and you will find God using the neighbouring nations to whip Israel in judgement.
So whereas Henry was a rogue, God used him to answer the dying prayers of a man who died for his work on translating the Bible into English. The man’s name escapes me now. But his prayer was “God open the eyes off the King of England!’
Re And you, Sir, trying to tell me what…………………?
…….that we have an **”historical Christian faith in an unbroken line going back to New Testament times”**?? We might have the faith but not uncorrupted doctrine!!
Yes. Read the History of what is now called the Baptist Church.
You quoted
Now for the Restoration/Restitution as taught in Acts 3:20-21
Do you realize that Deuteronomy 18 is being quoted and exegeted or explained in this passage?
In the passage in Deuteronomy Moses predicted that a special or specific Prophet would arise. Peter is here teaching that Christ was indeed that Prophet.
You will recall from your reading of John’s Gospel that Jesus was often asked ARE YOU THE PROPHET? Or THAT PROPHET?
Hope this helps.
@ the hood // February 15, 2010 at 12:43 AM
I do believe that the Book of Revelation closes the Canon of God’s word to us.
You asked “Aren’t we entitiled to ongoing revelation from a loving Heavenly Father?”
YES I believe he speaks to us by his Word.
You asked
How do we know if what we may hear or be taught is true except it be revealed to us by heavenly powers?
The Holy Spirit within the believer guides the believer into truth via the Word. This is the clear teaching of the NT.
You asked
Did God not tell us in Amos 3:7 “Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.” ?
Yes he did and this is a concept that you can trace throughout Scriptures. Adam, Enoch, Noah, The Patriarchs, Joseph, Moses, Samuel, David, The Prophets etc.
You asked
Aren’t we entitled to be led by prophets today just as people of olden times were led by prophets?
Yes God raises up men who can show us from His word how we should live, and who can explain contemporary events in the light of the revealed Word.
@Georgie Porgie // February 15, 2010 at 12:41 PM
Re Aren’t we all born with the Spirit/Light of Christ within us?
Which Scripture teaches this Sir?
…………………………………………………..
Sir, please reference John 1:6-9 :-
6 ¶ There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
…………………………………………………..
Or perhaps according to your “hermeneutics & exegesis” this may mean somthing completely different to you. Okay, so go ahead, tell me this is only a “pretext” as I have taken it out of context. You fellas realy have a way wid de “Queens English”. All yuh is masta illusionists! LOL.
the hood on // February 15, 2010 at 10:45 AM in your response to
@ Dictionary at // February 15, 2010 at 7:00 AM you asked some questions inter alia.
You asked
So, do you expect me to believe that mankind being what & who they are would have kept the “historic Christian faith” all clean,neat and properly contained, as the Lord so wished, down through the ages in an “unbroken line of testimony” and that you would now find a “solid line of scholarship all the way back to the NT times”?
Yes & NO. No mankind has never been responsible for maintaining the testimony.
YES God has via the Lolards and Petrobuchians and Waldensians etc! This is well documented.
Re the Nicene Creed.
I don’t know if you know it, but the Nicene creed is sound Theology! Every phrase of the Nicene Creed can be supported by Scritures!
In AD 325 the early Church had been infiltrated but not yet fully corrupted. The Nicene creed was convened to settle a raging dispute between Athanasius and the Gnostic, Arius about the Doctrine of Christ.
You ask So where was the so called “unbroken line of testimony” that you so loftily spoke about? Remember, we all know what can happen to “a testimony” in man if it is not continually, closely nurtured!
As long as 2 Timothy 2:2 was/is carried out an “unbroken line of testimony is/can be maintained. In 2 Timothy 2:2 Paul taught how it was to be (and is) done by those who have not aposthatised. There is always a faithful remnant, no matter how small.
Timothy was to entrust the things he had learned from Paul TO FAITHFUL MEN WHO WERE CAPABLE OF AND WILLING TO TEACH OTHERS ALSO. That still happens today even if only to a limited extent.
You ask “If what you claim is true,where then is the Great Apostasy that was supposed to have taken place in the last days of this current dispensation? Where is the Restoration that was to be accomplished before our Lord could make his Grand appearance once more to reclaim HIS Church!! Or, maybe you would want me to believe that these are not the “Last Days” in which we live?”
The Great Apostasy is occurring even as we speak in a very big way Sir. Many protestant churches are reverting back to the RC corruption and joining up with out and out devil worshipers etc.
The Restoration that was to be accomplished before our Lord could make his Grand appearance started since 1948, and continues to today. The Jews have been returning to their land. Read all the OT prophets and you will see that this is there predicted- especially in Ezekiel.
Finally I have nowhere called you or anyone else a fool on BU.
Re I do believe that I have access to the HOLY SPIRIT as is my God-given right!
Could you read the Upper room discourse and the Pauline Epistles and tell me to whom the Holy Spirit is given. I don’t know you, sO I cant say if you have the Spirit or not.
But the scriptures does speak clearly to this matter.
You see Dr. GP, Zoe et al,
I don’t have time for all this “hermeneuticing & exegesising” I don’t even have time for EXERCISING!
But I do have time to read GOD”S WORD and “what I see is what I get”.
@ DICTIONARY,// February 15, 2010 at 12:19 PM
“I am not entertaining debates on the matter, I just acted for information.”
…………………………………………………..
Me likewise, too, Sir, this so called FOOL, I just giving wunna “learned, wise intellectuals” some FACTS from the Lord! So deal wid it!!
@Technician // February 15, 2010 at 1:05 PM
I knew all that kiss and make up nonsense was a sham!!
Wunna had me tho….LOL!!
…………………………………………………..
Techie, man, I apologise to you.
But let me tell you something…….if this was in the times of the Inquisition these fellas woulda dun had muh bun at de stake or muh neck woulda dun get stretch! Yuh tink um easy? Yuh tink Ah Lie? De hood woulda dun get sen back tuh he mekka if lef to these fellas so!
Mr Hood
I honestly cannot see how you can quote John 1:6-9 to assert that
Re Aren’t we all born with the Spirit/Light of Christ within us?
Which part of this text says anything about the Spirit/Light of Christ being born, or being born within us, Sir?
what does the text really say? Sir?
6 ¶ There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
A MAN CALLED JOHN WAS SENT BY GOD
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
JOHN WAS SENT TO BEAR WITNESS OR GIVE TESTIMONY CONCERNING THE LIGHT TO ENABLE OR FACILITATE ALL MEN BELIEVING IN THE LIGHT
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
JOHN WAS NOT HIMSELF THE LIGHT OR THAT LIGHT INTO WHOM ONE MUST BELIEVE
JOHN WAS ONLY SENT TO BEAR WITNESS OR TESTIFY CONCERNING THE LIGHT
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
THE TRUE LIGHT LIGHTETH EVERY MAN THAT COMES INTO THE WORLD
Now Sir have youread on throughout the Gospel of John as he develops the concept of Who the light is? And who the light illuminates, and how?
How does verse 9 relate to verses 11& 12 and John 3:19 or 1 Timotrhy 4:10?
Have you compared Scripture with Scripture as taught by Peter in 2 Peter 1:20?
@ Georgie Porgie // February 15, 2010 at 1:47 PM
Finally I have nowhere called you or anyone else a fool on BU.
…………………………………………………..
In this you are quite correct, Dr. I never said that you did. But check some of the ravings and rantings from earlier posts of the sidekick, “Mr.” Zoe. Want me to copy and post the appropriate comments from “Mr.” Zoe?
Hoodie
You wrote
I don’t have time for all this “hermeneuticing & exegesising” I don’t even have time for EXERCISING!
But I do have time to read GOD”S WORD and “what I see is what I get”.
When you read the Word you must have some system of hermeneuticing & exegesising” to come to an interpretation, man.
Exegete what did you draw out from what you read.
Hermeneutics: did you go chapter by chapter? Book by book verse by verse? What.
I am trying to explain things to you and you are trying to mock me, even though you say you dont know much and that you are a babe?
Hoodie
I dealing wid you one on one. Me and you; GP and Hood in Sherwood forest!
I aint want to hear bout Zoe the Mormons or The Trojans or no body else.
@ GP,
Man Doc, I really got to hand it to you. Yuh real good at rationalising every single scripture. But don’t let it worry you one, of the “BU trinity” said above that one can take any scripture and get it to mean exactly what one wants it to mean. So press on.
@ Georgie Porgie // February 15, 2010 at 1:21 PM
You asked “Aren’t we entitiled to ongoing revelation from a loving Heavenly Father?”
YES I believe he speaks to us by his Word.
You asked
How do we know if what we may hear or be taught is true except it be revealed to us by heavenly powers?
The Holy Spirit within the believer guides the believer into truth via the Word. This is the clear teaching of the NT.
You asked
Did God not tell us in Amos 3:7 “Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.” ?
Yes he did and this is a concept that you can trace throughout Scriptures. Adam, Enoch, Noah, The Patriarchs, Joseph, Moses, Samuel, David, The Prophets etc.
You asked
Aren’t we entitled to be led by prophets today just as people of olden times were led by prophets?
Yes God raises up men who can show us from His word how we should live, and who can explain contemporary events in the light of the revealed Word.
…………………………………………………..
Dr. I have but one word in reply to all this………………………THANKS!
Why don’t you all just say a prayer and ask God for the wisdom and humility to accept that God is truly great and you are all a bunch of less than perfect human beings driven by a need to show your “superior intellect” and or “formal educational qualifications”.
@ GP,
1)Dr., I respect you and all that which you may be trying to prove but, like I
said before there comes a time when one has to agree to disagree on some point or points otherwise we then become disagreeable. It all comes down to a matter of one’s FAITH. Ah Lie?
2) You claim:- I am trying to explain things to you and you are trying to mock me, even though you say you dont know much and that you are a babe?
…………………………………………………..
I sincerely apologise for giving you the impression that I am mocking you but I guess that is because of the difficulties of an online conversation as opposed to a “tete a tete” as we so established in an earlier post. Capische?
@Georgie Porgie // February 15, 2010 at 1:47 PM
In AD 325 the early Church had been infiltrated but not yet fully corrupted.
…………………………………………………..
Now, Doc, seeing that in AD 325 the church was “not yet fully corrupted”….when would you think this occurred and when was it then”uncorrupted”? [Is there such a word – uncorrupted?] But you do get the gist of what I am asking?
Not at all Hants
I am not seeking to prove either a “superior intellect” and or “formal educational qualifications”, Rather I am explaining that in the same way that in other disciplines there are systems or ways to go about getting the correct answers consistently, that there are also logical approaches to Bible Study.
Onlookers,
We are now at 674 commentsd and counting, on a thread bearing the title:
It is astonishing and utterly, sadly revealing about where we are as a region that after this length, we still cannot get a serious, sustained productive dialogue — rhetorical sniping and slanders do not count — going on that focus!
Let us listen to what charity foundation schools can do for the rural poor, as a first step up out of poverty, and a first comonent of an alternative to drifting into urban ghettos:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYi-yGJYz2M&hl=en_US&fs=1&]
a –> think about what digitralisation through the OLPC family of PCs and software could do.
b –> What if such a school was also a community development centre, a trade school and a micro-power community upliftment radio station?
c –> What if the school was also a community health centre?
d –> What if the school also hosted or supported an open university micro-campus centre that helped with secondary and first tier tertiary education up to the Associate Degree level, and had linkage agreements with a network of Colleges that carried this to the next levels?
e –> What if it was a centre for construction industry renewal under the sustainability paradigm? [Bringing in Compressed Stabilised Earth Blocks, tiles and bricks technology, cane and bamboo timber reinforcement and framing, etc etc?]
f –> What if it hosted a node in a regional marketing system for artistic handicrafts and for strategic cash crops?
g –> And?
___________
If you hear an echo or two of my family history in that, courtesy a transformational educator who became a beloved uncle and a daring vegetable growing and agro processing entrepreneur [an Ex-major, British Army], you are only hearing the voice of history.
And if you hear an echo of a current family-funded school, health and community upliftment initiative in Kenya, you are only hearing the voice of the present.
And, if you hear a faint echo of something brewing in our region, why, that is the ghost of the future speaking in hope. In a Haitian accent.
Let us arise and build!
Dictionary
PS: TH, I have very different things on my heart and mind today, but you are in plain obvious need of help.
You were already pointed to links. I will add one more: here, courtesy e-SWORD, you can get — absolutely free — a veritable library of classic Bible resources that would answer to any serious Bible questions you have.
(I know for a fact that my own copy and library of resources have the equivalent of over US$ 2 – 3,000++ worth of key books, including books I once had to cross the breadth of a city to find and consult. If you are serious, you have more than enough to learn the truth, and you have some first class tutors who have been trying to help you too, with information you would otherwise have to go a long way and probably do a lot of researching to find. [Hint: the fact as to who makes the resources freely available and instantly accessible, from Gk and Heb Bibles, to original and vernacular reference tools, to history, the Fathers, to classic commentaries and dictionaries and encyclopedias and more much more, should tell you who is confident of the strength of the case, once it is given a fair hearing. And, oh yes, onlookers, you can start here on understanding the relevant doctrinal position of the LDS, documented from their own sources, and as is corroborated by over 150 years of history with the movement, as well as the testimony of many who having realised they were in grievous error and soul-peril, left: cf here Rom 2:5 – 9, and my discussion in the already linked on typical errors of skeptics, appendix 2]. From that page, go on to the page on what the Book of Mormon — allegedly translated from golden tablets by JS wearing special golden spectacles [all of which then vanished] — teaches. And on and on. I think you will see that it is fair comment to observe that Mormonism is a poly-theistical system, with one main god per planet. Since the Biblical texts and the historic Judaeo-Christian worldview is monotheistic, i tis fair comment to observe that Mormonism is forced to read its views into the text, not take them out by fair and sound principles of study. TH is not to be trusted on Biblical text or on the warranting base of the Judaeo-Christian worldview.)
@ GP the name of the man who died for his work in translating the Bible to English…………. was it John Wycliffe ot William Tyndale? Wycliffe lived, I think around the 1320s/1380s while Tyndale was around 1494-1536. Dates subject to correction, of course.
Tyndale.
@ Dictionary,
PS: TH, I have very different things on my heart and mind today, but you are in plain obvious need of help.
…………………………………………………..
Sir, is this an offer of help from you? If so, I say thanks, but no thanks. Like I said previously it would take an appearance of the Lord himself to me before I would accept one iota of what I have seen coming from you et al thus far! You see there are too many demonising spirits abounding on the earth for me to accept these ideas being spouted here on BU by your saying so. Basically, what I am saying is that I don’t trust your interpretations of scripture thus far! However, let it be understood that you are most welcome to continue with your so called biblical discourses.
I could not leave this one out event hough it is a speech:
Ideas for the transformation of farming, again from India. (And small coffee farming is very relevant to Haiti! Guess where Jamaica’s Blue Mountain Coffee came from!)
Well worth listening:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9xA-bW64T4&hl=en_US&fs=1&]
Notice especially how in an Internet age, a farming coop can market straight to ethical, fair trade and organic markets. (Fair warning, I was advised in Cuba on how hard it can be to get organic certification! But prices are then multiples on the commodities, sometimes triple.)
D
AYFKM???
This is precisely why the world finds itself in the mess its in right now!
The clash of religious beliefs. It is uncompromising, there is (and I dare say) no respect or tolerance for each other. Claws out, fangs bared, ready to die for their beliefs because theirs is the true one and all others are wrong.
Until this issue can be settled (if possible), then the reconstruction of Haiti will be another pipe dream.
One only has to look at the immediate comment and thoughts from religious persons in the minutes after the devastation to get a feel of which, to them, is their primary concern….the rest is merely window dressing.
@ Dictionary February 15, 2010 at 3:45 PM
“…..If you are serious, you have more than enough to learn the truth…..”
…………………………………………………..
The truth, Sir? The truth according to whom, Sir? According to you or “Mr.” Zoe et al? Or the truth according to enemies of an organisation that has so far stood the test of time and of all the hatred and vitriol that people like you & lots of others have thrown at it over the years? Try again, Sir!
I put it to you, Sir, that I view you as a “hostile witness”!
It is one of the two I think . Cant recall which one exactly now.
Re Now, Doc, seeing that in AD 325 the church was “not yet fully corrupted”….when would you think this occurred and when was it then”uncorrupted”?
Would you agree that the church was fairly sound in the first 300 years of its existence? There was then trulye church one faith one Lord!
It was obviously not perfect and even then they were in danger of infiltration from within and without as predicted by Paul in Acts 20: 28-32. Jesus, Jude and Peter also predicted error and adressed error that was around that was threatening the church.
Even in intense persecutin the church held firm, as christians were willing to die for thier faith. We may very well see this happening again in the very near future.
After Constantine merged Church with State the purity of the church went steadily down hill.
Some exp[ositors and commentators ague that the state of the church throughout its history is mirrored or predicted in the decline of the seven churches in Revelation 1&2. Some suggest dates. You may find that interesting reading, and it mifh in part answer your questions.
The Reformation under Luther was a start but the Reformation did not go all the way. As always folk find it difficult to make a clean cut and be separated. But you can see a transition say from RC=> Anglicans => Methodists => the churches that evolved from the Methodists and Anglicans shedding all the trappings and pomp and circumstance, and being more Bibliuo centric or Christ-centric.
The Scriptures promise that God always has a remnant. So the ENTIRE CHUCH DID NOT BECOME CORRUPT. Part of the early church did not join with the RC”s and went underground where they were severely persecuted until they emerged as te Anabaptists in Germany I think it was, because they re-baptised folk who were sprinkled as children, but who later accepted Christ as Savior.
Out of the Methodists came the Pilgrim or Wesleyan Holiness Church due to a split between Wesley and Whitfield over the doctrine of the eternal security of the believer. The followers of Whitfield teach the Word and are sound in the faith.
Out of the Anglican Church i the early 1800’s came the Brethren. In the first 50 years they went all over the world. But though sound the Brethren are generally too low keyed and non adventurous, and their various splits didnt help thier cause either.
Much of this stuff is well documented.
More from Aspen Institute, India:
Making markets work for the rural poor:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYHSzCmSN-k&hl=en_US&fs=1&]
And, BTW, the core of my OB course was on the importance of structured feedback in getting organization change to work: pulling out the ideas that are already there but are blocked in the system, and bringing them in an effective way to the attention of bought-in high-level decision makers through a participative process.
And in Strat Management, one of the key issues was that emergent strategies are often the most effective. Classic example: the Honda 50 cc cub motorcycle was simply being used by engineers at a trade show to move themselves around, back in 1959.
This was not the morotbike market of the day in the US — Harley Hog Heaven!
But, there was a whole hidden, potential market that came out of the woodwork once the little bikes were puttering around town.
The rest is history.
(BTW, when was the last time you saw one of those little Hondas?)
D
@Dictionary
You are casting your pearls before the proverbial……..
Mr Hood
I was unaware of e-SWORD until now, but on checking the opening page, I must confess that there are a number of great books and authors listed there.
The names of these men all occur repeatedly in serious Christian literature man.
Onlookers:
I see TH is at he Pilate-type question (a bit of a perilous position to be in . . . ):
Truth is not an ideology owned or monopolised by any individual or class:
For 2,300 years, that pithy but deadly accurate description has not been bettered; including by some really big names in philosophy.
The real issue then is to find the truth, and to warrant it per reasonable tests. That, I have addressed in the relevant context here, at responsible length for an initial serious look.
It was already linked, and I think you, TH, would be wise to take a little time and effort to read and work your way through some of the issues and evidence.
(Also, this might help. And you are here getting free what others have paid good money for, and which took years to synthesise.)
G’day
D
Unless one has an objective criterior, based on sound principles of biblical interpretation, i.e., Hermeneutics, contextual analysis, and linguistic exegesis; one IS not apt to be able to ‘righty divide’ the Word of Truth, the Bible.
The first absolute prerequisite, IS to be Saved, Justified, Born Again, without which, The Holy Spirit CANNOT indwell you; for *He* only comes in to the heart and life of those He has spiritually regenerated; that IS Biblical theology, pure and simple!
Hood, that ‘heaviness’ you felt, I’m sure was the conviction of the Holy Spirit, bringing you to a place of gentle conviction, that what you believe is not Biblically sound. If you were correct, He would have given you a sense of His ‘peace’ which He has given me many times, in the face of utter rubbish posted here on BU to the defense I have so often posted re God’s Word, the Bible.
I sincerely feel for you, I have encountered many like you, the Mormon young men walking around in pairs, I have confronted a number of them, all very sincere in what they believe and are trying to entice others into believing this false gospel of Joseph Smith.
In every which way, the ‘Another Testament of Jesus Christ’ by Mormonism, IS AT direct variance with, and in contempt of, the Only True Gospel of Jesus Christ as contained IN the Sealed Canon of New Testament Scripture.
It is so sad, that many here and around the world are being led into ‘Another gospel’ HETEROS, FALSE gospel, because they just don’t KNOW and UNDERSTAND the True Gospel of Christ, ‘…ONCE for ALL delivered to the Saints’ (Jude) Cira 100 AD, which IS completely sufficient for ALL sound Doctrine, nothing added or taken away.
One CANNOT spot and recognize ERROR, of any kind, unless, one knows and understands the TRUTH!
ru4real
You realize that too?
But Dictionary, you see is an optimist. Even though he will be cursed for evermore for his ideas, or for suggesting the modification of ideas, he will persist.
His detractors will continue to bray and bark at him, because they can do nothing else.
BU is frequented by bullshitters and big mout idiots who have very little to offer except snide remarks and rants and raves. No one seems to be able to see the other side of a story ever.
Hilarious! These folk who claim to be 98% literate. But 0% in terms of comprehension.
RU
You have a point, but I think it is more like that proverbial sower who went out with seed:
[Could some of the silent onlookers say something? Ignore the carpers . . . ]
D
PS: GP, eSWORD is really, really good — when I saw the Ante Nicene fathers, Schaff, Clarke, Henry, ISBE etc etc etc I went ape on that one, well past 1 gig of resources! (You can also get a lot of modern resources for US$ 20. pk, which is a steal these days!)
If you are not so “get the hands dirty” with ICTs [putting database content files right into the program file folder and all that stuff, for some of the more useful 3rd party sites like David Cox etc. . . never mind the odd doctrinal oddity or two], try The Word which is a little smoother around the edges and comes with a nice preloaded pack of resources. Matter of fact Cox is porting over to The Word.
Thanks for this information Dictionary.
I will circulate this to my friends who study the Word.
Anon:
I know for a fact that there are some really solid people in Bimshire, who I count it a privilege to have known as friends these 35 years or so.
I think of the gentle giant and pastoral piano tuner. I think of our favourite fisher lady and Bible bookstore worker, who shared many an afternoon on many a beach, rod in hand, when the biting was hot and sometimes when it was not. I think of a Spirit filled musician and inventor. I think of a Bible seller who I need to join up with on a beach someday soon. I think of a lady consultant who is all class and all grace backed up by first class brains. I think of an eloquent young teacher and fashion entrepreneur. I think of a pastor and wife of fragrant memory who sowed the seeds of eternal life year after year at Carrington’s PH. I think of Dr A Wingrove Taylor who I am proud to own as adoptive uncle. I think of Gerry S — now Bishop, Dr — in the days back at Agape Christian Supplies on Swan Street over Harmony Store. I think of a cell church and its wonderful lady pastor, a circle that even now is praying for me. I think of a wonderful Jewish entrepreneur and her God-blessed family. I think of a wonderful Arab-Jamaican entrepreneurial family that is also blessed with the promises of Abraham in the Seed of Abraham. There is that teacher-apologist. There is the salesman and cult expert. There is my very favourite ISCF sponsor. A medical doctor and lecturer. A powerful exegete. And so on, with many others too numerous to mention.
It is when I think of people like that, that I know that many who come here to sneer and to dismiss and spew slander and threaten arson have never taken time to listen and to come to know some of the most wonderful God blessed people on earth.
People who met and know and walk with God, whose lives radiate with the glow that comes form the touch of God’s transforming grace in the [very middle eastern!] face of Jesus the Christ.
And when I think of that, I also think about the pain that people are going through in Haiti as we speak, and I know it is high time to reach out and help. Help we are well able to help bring together.
So, it is time to ask the Mordecai moment questions:
Ah gawn for now . . .
D