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Submitted by Doc Georgie Porgie

Cranberry juice, obtained from the berries of the plant Vaccinium macrocarpon Ait.,[Ericaceae] has long been advocated by folklorists for the prevention of urinary tract infections [UTIโ€™S].

Originally, it was thought that the juice acted by increasing the acidity of the urine. However, it is currently thought that cranberry possesses โ€œanti-adherence โ€œproperties, which prevent bacteria from attaching to the lining of the urinary tract. Two compounds have been isolated from cranberry , which inhibit the adhesion of E. coli to cells of the urinary tract. In addition, an as yet unidentified compound [found only in cranberry and blueberry juice] along with fructose [which is found in all fruit juices ] have been shown to inhibit E.coli fimbrial adhesions.

In a recent randomized, double โ€“ blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial involving 153 elderly women who ingested 300 mL of commercially available cranberry or placebo daily for 6 months it was demonstrated that the frequency of bacteriuria with pyuria was significantly decreased [after 4 to 8 weeks] in the cranberry group in comparison with the placebo group. In addition, there was a decrease in the rate of antibiotics prescribed by doctors to treat UTIโ€™S in the cranberry group, suggesting a relevant effect of ingesting cranberry juice. Another small,[n=7] randomized, controlled cross-over trial confirms these findings.

Although no side effects, contraindications or drug interactions are associated with the use of cranberry juice, it is imperative to note that cranberry juice should not be used as a substitute for antibiotics in the treatment of acute urinary tract infections

For the prevention of urinary tract infections cranberry juice may be given in a dose of 150 mL to 600 mL daily or as 300 to 400 mg concentrated cranberry juice capsules twice daily

TURMERIC [Curcuma longa Linn ] Family Zingiberacea

Turmeric is a member of the ginger family which has been used historically for both its flavour [it is a major ingredient in curry powder] and its colour [it is used in the preparation of mustard ].

The primary and secondary rhizomes have been used traditionally in China and India for flatulence, jaundice menstrual difficulties bruises and colic. The active agent in turmeric which is responsible for its characteristic yellow colour and pharmacological activity is curcumin, a phenylpropanoid derivative Circumin is reported to be a potent anti-inflammatory agent, to have significant anti-oxidant activity,to increase bile secretion and flow and to have a variety of other direct effects including inhibition of leukotriene formation,and platelet aggregation as well as increasing the breakdown of fibrin and promoting liver function in many ways.

Among the mechanisms postulated for the action of tumeric as an anti-inflammatory agent are that 1 it has an indirect action via the adrenal cortex, 2- it inhibits cortisone metabolism in the liver, thus increasing the amount of circulating cortisone 3- it inhibits 5-lipoxygenase and 4 it inhibits lipopolysaccharide induced production of tumour necrosis factor [ TNF ] and interleukin-1b[IL-1]..

With respect to its use in rheumatoid arthritis, one clinical study which used the postoperative inflammation model for evaluating NSAIDS found that 400 mg of curcumin was as effective as 100 mg phenylbutazone. Another found that symptoms such as joint swelling, walking speed and morning stiffness were improved to the same degree in patients taking either curcumin 1200 mg daily or phenylbutazone 300mg daily

Tumeric has been traditionally used for a number of liver diseases. Although there are no available human clinical studies which have investigated the efficacy of tumeric in these indications, evidence from experimental studies on animals reveal that it increases bile flow and may play a role in protecting the liver from toxins and that it also provides protection from hepatoxin-induced liver damage

Several animal studies have demonstrated that curcumin may have an inhibitory effect on a variety of experimentally induced cancers because of curcuminโ€™s antioxidant action by inhibition of superoxide production, but the clinical significance of these findings remains uncertain.

Circumin has been reported to decrease cholesterol and lipid levels as well as to have antioxidant properties in animal studies

No drug interactions or adverse effects have been found when tumeric has been used in a dose of 400 mg curcumin three times daily or 1.5 to 3 g tumeric daily. However, prolonged use may sometimes cause gastrointestinal upset, and safety in pregnancy and lactation has not yet been established Individuals with blockage of the common bile duct or gallstones are advised not to use tumeric, because of its reputed ability to increase bile flow. It is note worthy that the German Commission E has approved the use of tumeric as an effective cholagogue and digestive aid

A WORD OF CAUTION

Clinical studies on humans have clearly demonstrated that tumeric has a potent inflammatory action comparable to that of phenylbutazone ,a pain killer which has been discontinued in most countries for almost twenty years. It would seem that tumeric can safely be used in the recommended doses as an adjunct to prescribed arthritis pain killers. Perhaps one can use the tumeric as the mainstay, since it is not reported to have any adverse effects or drug interactions and add your prescribed painkillers only when the pain is unbearable even with the use of tumeric. However it does not seem that there is any clinical evidence which suggests that tumeric can be used for the other indications as advocated in the publications emitting from the folklorists.

One has always to consider a few things when using any extract. What are the active ingredients in the extract ? What are the other constituents of the extract ? Are these ingredients all safe ? What are there adverse effects ? Will they interact with prescribed drugs ? โ€œ


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180 responses to “The Use Of Cranberry Juice In the Treatment And Prevention Of Urinary Tract Infections”


  1. UVA-URSI [Arctostaphylos uva ursi [L]

    The leaves of this plant have been used as a urinary antiseptic for uncomplicated infections of
    the lower urinary tract [e.g cystitis, urethritis and prostatitis ]

    The therapeutic efficacy of cold water infusions of this plant is dependent on the conversion of phenolic glycosides,[especially arbutin ] to hydroquinone ,a known antimicrobial agent. Whereas some researchers think that arbutin is absorbed intact and undergoes hydrolysis in the urine to hydroquinone, others argue that this conversion occurs in the gastrointestinal tract and that the hydroquinone is then transported as a conjugate systemically and the hydroquinone is then liberated in the urine .

    The resulting anti microbial activity in the genitourinary tract, which is noted only when the urine has an alkaline pH of 8 or more is thought to protect the uroepithelium and prevent the retention of microcalculi.

    Antimicrobial activity has been demonstrated in vitro for uva-ursi against a number of organisms which causes urinary tract infections , including Staph aureus ,Bacillus subtilis, E.coli and Shigella sp.

    Side effects of large doses of uva-ursi include nausea and vomiting and [because of the toxic
    potential of hydroquinone] ,tinnitus, shortness of breath, cyanosis, convulsions ,delirium and collapse.

    Uva-ursi is contraindicated in kidney disorders, pregnancy and lactation .Prolonged use
    [more than two weeks ] and excessive doses should be avoided due to the presence of hydroquinone
    and the large amount of tannins in the concoction.

    Cold water infusions are prefered to hot ones since less tannins are extracted thereby. Caution should be exercised with drugs known to interact with
    hydroquinone.

    The dosage of uva-ursi is 1.5-4 g of dried leaves OR 1.5-4mL fluid extract [1:1 in 25 % alcohol ]three times daily or โ€œ cold water infusions of the crude drug equivalent to 400-800mg arbutin per day in divided doses given with an alkalising agent such as NaHCO3

    In Bowman & Randโ€™s Textbook of Pharmacology, we read that chronic infections of the urinary tract are difficult to manage successfully ;the cure rate for chronic infections is no greater than 20 โ€“30% regardless of the type of antimicrobial therapy employed .

    Again the sulphonamides are probably the drugs of first choice in most cases, although these are not always as effective as in the past, because of an increasing incidence of resistant organisms.

    Some authorities recommend continuous treatment for chronic infections, whereas others prefer intermittent treatment .

    In any case the urine should be examined bacteriologically at regular intervals Many physicians prescribe prolonged courses of antibiotics for chronic urinary tract infections but there is little evidence that these are superior to the sulphonamides, and their prolonged use may lead to untoward effects, particularly superinfection.

    With respect to uva ursi, note that its antimicrobial activity has only been demonstrated for a small number of organisms and at that only in vitro [out of the body in experiments ] but there are no clinical trials to prove its efficacy in vivo [i.e in the living ].

    Note also that it is not recomended for prolonged use. Its side effects and contraindications must be considered revolting .

    I would therefore avoid it and stick with a suitable drug as indicated by sensitivity tests. In the case of cranberry juice ,however, it is note worthy that, not only are they no reported adverse effects, contraindications or drug interactions but the efficacy of cranberry juice in the management of chronic urinary tract infections was shown in many clinical trials before a large ,randomised double โ€“blind ,placebo controlled trial, demonstrated conclusively its efficacy for this indication

    Because of its lack of adverse effects contraindications and drug interactions and the conclusive results of the trials I would be prepared to use it as an adjunct in the treatment of chronic urinary tract infections along with suitable antimicrobial therapy, but I wonโ€™t be prepared to consider uva ursi at all for this indication Not on the available scientific evidence.


  2. Thanks Hants for this additional info


  3. @ GP

    It is good that Smokey has put this in the public domain.

    The long lime periods it took for tests and treatment appears to be an issue worth discussing.

    Let us hope and pray for a good outcome for Smokey.


  4. @ All

    For those of you who are not in the know, the common name for Uva-ursi is BEARBERRY. Only the leaves are used.

    It can help in some instances of bedwetting, for gravel in the kidneys and as a douche for vaginal infections.


  5. @BAFBFP

    c,a doit etre amour


  6. @ BAFBFP and ac

    Why dont you start a romantic thread?
    It is amazing how the two of you pop us with your sweet nothings all over the place…….

    Go ahead now cuss muh.


  7. @Pat
    when there is so much bitterness in the world a little love won”t hurt.


  8. @ Hants

    I took your advice. Seems I was keeping it alive and REAL.

    Not a single post today. Seems clear that some bloggers motivate responses.

    Note also that David boasts of millions of hits. You Kind, Sir -say you are in Canada.

    My point is made.


  9. @ Alex Fergusson

    It is good to see you are focussed and commenting on the Political articles.
    You and Sylly G are a formidable combination.

    I am focussed on GP’s health topics.


  10. @ Hants

    Happy New Year. I agree, there is a connection between:

    (a) quality of life investment;
    (b) retirement training planning and councelling,
    (c) active ageing,
    (d) promoting longevity as a national strategic objective,
    (e) The promotion of good health and wellness, and
    (f) Seeing health in its broadest possible context, that is to say: spiritual and moral health, environmental health, economic and social health, technoligical health, cultural health

    When serious discussion starts, I will contribute.


  11. VALERIAN [ Valeriana officinalis L and other species of Valeriana ]

    The tuberous root and rhizome of several species of this plant have been used for many centuries
    as a sedative , anti nauseant, anticonvulsant , for gastrointestinal and urinary symptoms ,for the treatment of migraine and as a pain killer.

    Research directed at the interaction of valerian constituents with the GABA neurotransmitter receptor system remain inconclusive and as yet the mechanism of action of valerian in general,and as a mild sedative in particular remains unknown.

    Valerian extracts appear to have some affinity for the GABA-A receptor. This activity appears to be related to the relatively high content of GABA present in aqueous extracts of valerian is sufficient to account for the release of GABA from the synaptosomes and may also inhibit reuptake. Since GABA does not cross the blood โ€“brain barrier efficiently at low concentrations ,these in vitro results do not support the clinical data.

    Extracts of valerian have been reported to decrease gastrointestinal motility and to exhibit antipyretic and anti-inflammatory effects.

    ANIMAL STUDIES
    Behavioural studies on rodents have demonstrated that valerian has some sedative properties.

    Valerian extracts produce changes in behavioural tests such as rotorod performance,activity,and augmentation of barbiturate-induced sleep similar to changes observed with benzodiazepines. Anticonvulsant effects were also demonstrated.

    One study reported that methanolic extracts of valerian were able to decrease immobility in the forced swimming test in mice, and reversed reserpine-induced hypothermia,which suggests potential antidepressant activity. EEG changes in rats have also been found.
    Cerebral nuclear medicine imaging in rats using radiolabelled glucose showed CNS depressant effects for a dichloromethane extract of valerian.

    HUMAN CLINICAL STUDIES
    Valerian appears to have a mild sedative effect which makes it suitable as a hypnotic.

    Subjective parameters of sleep quality, a decrease in the latency of sleep onset ,and awakening were
    improved with valerian ,in the absence of side effects. Objective EEG measurements confirmed this
    trend but did not reach statistical significance. Objective laboratory sleep observations showed no significant difference between placebo and valerian The efficacy of valerian in treating primary insomnia or insomnia associated with disease states has not been adequately evaluated,nor is there substantial evidence to suggest that valerian is superior to existing medications or other treatments for insomnia.

    There is some evidence of cytotoxicity associated with the use of valerian and it should be avoided in pregnancy until further data is available even though some authors seem to think it is safe for use in pregnancy.

    Little data on specific drug interactions exist, but since valerian evidently has some hypnotic-sedative effects, the concomitant use of valerian preparations with other CNS depressants including alcohol should be avoided as these agents are likely to potentiate its effects.

    The dose of valerian is 2-3 g of root or rhizome[or equivalent dry extracts] orally three times daily or at bedtime OR 1-3 mL of tincture [20% concentration by volume in a 70 % ethanol solution]three times daily or at bedtime.


  12. Alkaline, Ionized Water
    Alkaline, ionized water is anti-oxidant electron rich, restructured, micro clustered, active hydrogen saturated water. Its molecular formula shifts from H2O to H+ OH-, after it goes through an electrolysis process that changes the pH (potential of hydrogen) of the water to alkaline, ionized-rich water. As a result, this water contains essential minerals, such as calcium, magnesium and potassium in an ionic form that can be assimilated immediately into the body. It is a powerful antioxidant, more powerful than any single food or vitamin supplement because it contains active hydrogen, which supplies huge amounts of extra electrons to the body.
    Alkaline, ionized water unique characteristics are recognized in the medical field for their effectiveness in assisting the body in rebuilding itself from dehydration and the many types of illnesses and diseases. Some of the areas that people have noticed improvements in their health include arthritis, chronic fatigue, leg cramps, migraines, diabetes. Also heartburn, poor circulation, gout, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, asthma, skin rashes, dermatitis, psoriasis, obesity, diarrhea, indigestion, heart disease, allergies, constipation, stomach ulcers, hepatitis and cancer.
    Alkaline, ionized water is known to have smaller clusters of 5 to 6 water molecules, as a result of the electrolysis process, which makes it a super-hydrating water. Tap water is typically 12 to 15 molecules per cluster, which is double the size of alkaline, ionized water. Smaller water clusters also mean your body can easily absorb the minerals in this water into your cells in mere seconds. Reverse osmosis, distilled and tap water will slosh around in your stomach and often flush key minerals out of your body because they lack this important property. This is particularly important for your metabolism since smaller elements pass through cell membranes more easily to eliminate acidic waste and flushes toxins from your body more effectively.
    When you reduce active oxygen from the water, you increase its power to slow down the oxidation process, which eliminates โ€œfree radicalsโ€ safely from your body. This effectively helps to slow down the aging process. Active oxygen is not healthy for the body and is what you feel if you have ever exercised too hard and felt your lungs burn. The process of reducing and removing oxygen from the water is called ORP (Oxidation Reduction Potential). Drinking water where oxygen has been eliminated creates a healthy body.

    For additional information visit http://www.purplewater.com


  13. Anon, thanks for posting the info on alkaline ionized water. I’ve been drinking the water for 6 months now and my cholesterol level went from 280 to 195 in that time. The joint pain that I’ve been experiencing for more than 10 years has disappeared. I was baffled that simple water could be so effective in treating such ailments, but after reading what you’ve posted I now understand why it is so effective.


  14. Sweet and healthy

    I think that a lowering of your cholesterol of that magnitude in such a short period of time is significant.

    I would be very interested to hearing more about this product. Is this available in Barbados? If so, where?


  15. GP

    It certainly is significant because I have not taken Lipitor in more than 5 months. My health goal was to get off of medication that has so many side effects.

    The water aparatus is called the Kangen Water Machine and it’s available through distributors. If you are interested in the machine please email me at holisticwater@gmail.com. And yes, I know of several distributorships in Barbados


  16. Sweet&Healthy

    Were you exercising and dieting and losing weight simultaneously in this time period?

    Could any or all of these have contributed to your reduction in cholesterol levels and your being sucessful in eliminating Lipitor and its side effects?

    Or are you honestly attributing your sucess to this water ONLY?


  17. Dr. GP:

    I strongly recommend exercise and a healthy diet to everyone. However, my schedule does not permit me to excise, other than walking to and from my car (smile). As far as dieting is concerned, I have a weakness for sweets (no need to say anymore). What I did eliminate from my diet were juices and soft drinks. I basically ate what I wanted, but drank 9.5 kangen water, along with my meals. Tea and soups were also made with kangen water, and yes, I did lose 25 pounds in 6 mounths by basically eliminating soft drinks and consuming 1/2 gallon of kangen water daily.

    Another site to visit for information: http://www.holisticwtr.com.


  18. @ Dr. GP

    Before you buy, just google Kangen and look at the article: Dont Buy a Kangen Water System.

    Some very interesting information. Could be true, it is still up and no court cases are on-going to my knowledge.


  19. Sweet&Healthy
    You have certainly made some powerful and interesting claims.

    I off course have no experience with the product.

    I see that Pat has some contra- diction or contra- indications to present.

    It would be interesting to hear these, in the spirit of balance, caution and fair play, as we discuss and explore the mechanism of action of this water system, and the relevant chemistry of the ionisation of water involved.

    I have not yet looked into the chemistry and biological or cellulara aspects of the product.

    The first thoughts might be how can water be harmful unless you drink dirty water or fallinto a large body of water, or a large bofy of it falls upon you.

    Pat do you have litterature with relevant chemistry that we can compare the claims of this sweet and healthy lady, and your contra- diction or contra- indications in a proper way?


  20. Dr. GP

    The literature out there says that Kangen is the brand name of the machine and that it is ionized water like any other inonized water.

    The literature also says that Kangen marketing is a pyramid scheme, thus making the product extremely costly. I saw reports of $4000 US. Some say that people buy the machines and also sell the water.

    An ex exployee of the company says that employees can buy a machine from the company for $200 US, that the mark-up is exorbitant, among other things.

    In tests, it is rated at three and a half stars and there are two other machines that rate four at a lesser price.

    Some results from all brands of machines are positive, but the cost of the one (Kangen) is more than twice that of the other. Some companies have several models.

    There is apparently some type of chemicals that go into the Kangen machines but are not identified by Kangen. Apparently they say it is saline solution but when asked if one can substitute their own solutions are told No. The container of chemicals state “do not drink”, but yet go into the water and has to be bought repeatedly.


  21. @ Sweet&Healthy

    If it works for you keep doing it.

    GP your medical opinion would be welcome.

    My opinion is based on a little knowledge about the use of blogs as a marketing tool.

    I will accept a shortened life and drink filtered tap water or bottled water as usual.


  22. Thank you Hants, it does work for me and millions of people world-wide and I will continue to use it instead of the prescribed drugs that so many of us today seem quite happy taking.
    I was taught that if you do not have anything good to say about something, keep your mouth closed. I see Pat seems very content on misinforming readers on BU about kangen water. Pat, could you please tell this forum what kind of chemicals are in kangen water? Malicious, misinformation will not stop this water ionizer from helping the millions it has already helped and will continue to help. The water around the world is in a dire state and you might not want to accept it now, but youโ€™ll have to do so if you live long enough to see what they are recycling and returning to us to drink.
    If anyone finds a water ionizer for $200 that can give them the same type of results as the kangen water machine please go ahead and purchase it. But many of us who’ve had those so called cheaper versions, got no good results and had to resort to the originator, yes, the originator of water ionizers, the Kangen manufacturer.
    My health is too important to me to consume anything cheap, after all God gave me one body to house my mind and soul and to say Iโ€™ll continue to consume things that will destroy this body is sheer ignorance. As far as I’m concerned, $4,000 to maintain good health is nothing compared to a stint in the hospital, prescribed drugs or even a funeral, which incidentally is well over BD$12,000.
    A wise man once said that a little education is a dangerous thing and I couldn’t agree with him more. When I last checked, pyramid schemes are intangible, you get nothing in exchange for putting your hard earned cash into a scheme, unless you are lucky enough to bring other investors in and cycle yourself off the board and then youโ€™ll get your investment back and much more, if you are lucky. Well I have news for you Pat, you do get something tangible with Kangen, a life changing machine (that rids your body of the excess acid, cleans your colon and much, much more), once you give the company your hard-earned money. I say thatโ€™s a fair trade, wouldnโ€™t you. And yes, you can make money if you refer others to purchase this machine. It’s called a referral program. I hope I’ve been able to clear- up any misconception you mightโ€™ve had about the kangen water machine.
    Educating and edifying the masses should be the goal of everyone, even on a blog. Compassion and caring for others is another reason Iโ€™ll ask those of you who drink tap or bottled water to get tested for giardia and cryptosporidium at your next medical check-up.


  23. Sweet & Sexy ……….I mean Healthy
    Re
    Iโ€™ll ask those of you who drink tap or bottled water to get tested for giardia and cryptosporidium at your next medical check-up.

    This is an interesting point! Do you have any statistics of the prevalence of the protozoans giardia or and cryptosporidium here, there or anywhere?

    It would certainly be interesting to know the situation in Barbados drinking water these days.

    Can you indicate how the sytem you advocate removes these organisms or their cysts etc from drinking water.


  24. @Dr GP

    “It would certainly be interesting to know the situation in Barbados drinking water these days.”

    Excerpts from an IBD America article published in 2004:

    โ€œI miss our water when I travel outside of Barbados, whether it be New York or Europe,โ€ says Joseph Griffith, a manager of the recently completed South Coast wastewater plant. โ€œI guess Iโ€™m just used to it.โ€
    But now, supplies of the prized water are rapidly reaching their limit. In 1978, Bajans used 10 gallons of water per day, according to John Mwansa, acting chief engineer of the Barbados Water Authority (BWA). Now the use level stands at 60 to 63 gallons a day for residents, and 179 gallons a day for hotel guests. โ€œWe have reached the limit,โ€ says Mwansa. โ€œWe have taken out as much water from the ground as we can.โ€

    Several factors account for the growing water scarcity. For one, Barbados ranks among the driest countries in the world, comparable to the kingdom of Jordan in terms of available water per inhabitant. Moreover, six out of the past 10 years have been abnormally dry. Despite the near-universal coverage of the public water system, about half of all water production is classified as โ€œunaccounted for,โ€ meaning that it is lost through leakage of aging pipes and other defective equipment, or through unmetered consumption.
    To compensate for these losses, the BWA has been forced to inject growing quantities of artificially desalinated water into the system. Bajans who fill their flasks from the tap are no longer drinking the true โ€œcoral-filteredโ€ water they prize.

    Tough choices. If it is to avoid restricting consumption, the BWA must address the problem on a number of different fronts. One is to upgrade the pipeline and distribution system to reduce losses. Another is to find cost-effective ways to recycle wastewater and new alternatives to increase supply. The government is working to update the rate structure, since the price for water on the island has not been raised for 12 years. A final challenge is to clamp down on illegal connections and take action on delinquent accountsโ€”steps that will inevitably provoke a public outcry.

    Barbados is taking action on almost all of these fronts. It has built two desalination plants since 2000 and has leased a third one that is mounted in a trailer, although this supply solution is subject to controversy because of its expense. The BWA plans to recycle wastewater and to upgrade the distribution system to reduce leakage and other sources of waste. A new wastewater plant to be situated on the islandโ€™s west coast will include a facility to reprocess wastewater for agricultural use and for reinsertion into underground aquifers. The government estimates that it can recover through new investments in treatment and recycling up to 5 million gallons of wastewater a day for nonpotable uses.โ€

    โ€œCan you indicate how the sytem you advocate removes these organisms or their cysts etc from drinking water. โ€œ

    Most developed countries have reached the stage of recycling fecal matter water for potable use. In the US, most municipalities combine 25% of recycled water, which is treated with hundreds of chemicals before it is blended with the other 75% from the reservoir, well, etc. and return to consumers for consumption. The DEP is open about this policy and have warned customers that the government allows 2% of whatever is found in the water to remain there. In other words, of the hundreds of chemicals use to treat the fecal matter water, there is not one chemicals to this date that would eliminate giardia and cryptosporidium. According to a BWA employee in 2008, โ€˜only chlorine is used to treating tap water in Barbados.โ€™

    Kangen water ionizers are manufactured with a carbonate filter that filters out the basic stuff like lead, rust, bacteria, arsenic, rocket fuel, etc. After the water leaves the filter it travels over 7 large plates made of medical grade platinum and titanium (both of these metals are precious and very costlyโ€”platinum when last I checked is trading at US$1,400 an ounce). Check the science behind the cheaper machines, the small size of their plates, along with the aluminum-meshed they are made with can not withstand the 1400 millivolts it takes to electrode and eliminate parasites like these protozoans from the water.


  25. Sweet&Healthy

    Can I call you to hook up for a drink—of water? LOL ROTFLMAO

    You have certainly brought some facts and information to this debate. And I commend you for this because the quality of your contribution is far above the usual bovine excrement that is infused into BU waters offered for drink on this blog.

    Any was we will continue to pick to pieces your claims, and we look foward to your continued able defence of your position. We shall see how this goes.

    I am not writing off your product yet and I sincerely want to embrace you to the BU fold, and to myself with wide open arms! LOL

    Keep up your good posts!


  26. @Dr GP: Thank you! And yes you can call me for a drink of kangen water anytime.

    What is your area of practive?


  27. Sweet & Healthy

    You are so very sweet to extend such a kind invitation to me.

    I am just a washed up extinguished GP who teaches at Medical Schools when I get a pick here or a pick there. I love Biochemistry and Pharmacology, but I have also taught a bit of Pathology and Cell & Molecular Biology.

    So I am very interested in your water and drinking with you and discussing it further.


  28. @ Sweet&Healthy

    My dear lady, I googled the net and read many articles on ionized water machines and reports from users. I do not drink ionized water. Dont think I will if the machine costs $4000 US. I have lived my almost three score and ten without it.

    However, if you are a proponent of this machine and “thinks” it has help you, kudos. I still think eating healthily and exercising will do the trick. I have been doing that and lost 40 pounds, have no problems with the arthritis that almost crippled me and have kept my sugar, cholesterol and blood pressure in check.

    If Health Canada has not approved and from tests verified that it does the things it claims to do, it is not for me. My taxes pay for these scientists to do such and advise us the consumers. I may just go into the site and see what they have to say about this product.

    We always tend to defend the product we are using especially if we have been sold it with a good story. Whatever you say, it is sold by the pyramid method, which adds to the cost considerably. And yes, Kangen employees can get the machine for $200.

    We heard the same thing about the goji berry juice scam which was also a pyramid scheme. To each his own.

    I dont drink filtered or bottled water, but I do boil mine. When I was home last March, I had to boil the water too. Too much chlorine, you could smell it from the moment you opened the tap. I used to drink copious amount of local water but last visit I drank mostly coconut water.


  29. This presentation on water has been uploaded at the behest of Doc GP.


  30. @ Sweet & Healthy

    The below is from Health Canada:

    ‘Water taken from lakes, rivers, mountain streams and ponds may contain invisible but harmful micro-organisms called pathogens. These bacteria, viruses and protozoa can cause symptoms ranging from mild nausea and fever to severe diarrhea and hepatitis. Currently the most common pathogens are the protozoa Giardia, which cause diarrhea commonly called “Beaver Fever”, and Cryptosporidium, which also causes diarrhea. These protozoa can be found in the feces of many domestic and wild animals and can spread to surface waters. Boiling drinking water will remove all known pathogens.”

    They do not recommend ionization. They said filtering would remove crystosp. before boiling.

    Methods of treatment are: boiling, disinfectant tablets, chlorine bleach,
    tincture of iodine,UV irridation, ceramic filtration and ozonation.

    There is nothing wrong with our household drinking water.

    From reading the posts on this Kangen machine, I guess you bought one, hook line and sinker, and as is recommended, your “sponsor” recommended that you also sell to recoup the price of the machine. Only thing is, this scheme has 8 levels (or points). Takes many sales to recoup that $4000 US.

    One bloke enthused that he made $100,000 in a year from this scheme and that was a parttime job. He said even though he no longer sells many machines he still makes money. I say good for him, I hope he is happy ripping gullible people off.

    Seven titanium and platinum plates eh? Must be the size of a grain of rice. The company would be better off to sell the precious metals. They would make more money in the market than they would from the machines – and no overhead or staff to boot!


  31. @ Dr. GP:

    I just sent the below request off to Health Canada. I will await their reply and post.

    “I would like any information you may have, tests, results, etc. on the Kangen Water Ionization machine, or any other machine that ionizes water.

    Do these machines have any medical benefits and if so, what are they. Are these benefits proven and repeated in controlled experiments.

    Have these machines, if on sale in Canada, been rated and approved for consumer use by Health Canada.

    Thank you.”


  32. Interesting posts Pat.
    David my ppt is not coming up when I click on it. I am getting a 404 error.


  33. @Dr. GP

    I read your presentation. Do I understand it to say that the body, ( the machine that the BBE created, as per Bush Tea,) compensates for low H ions and disassociates if there is too much? Then, if the body balances itself out, what is the use of extra ionized water?

    Or, simple minded person that I am, have I misunderstood the presentation?

    Seems like a waste of money.


  34. Dr GP:

    Here is something I came across on the internet that was reported by AP back in March 2008.

    “A vast array of pharmaceuticals โ€” including antibiotics, anti-convulsants, mood stabilizers and sex hormones โ€” have been found in the drinking water supplies of at least 41 million Americans, an Associated Press investigation shows.

    To be sure, the concentrations of these pharmaceuticals are tiny, measured in quantities of parts per billion or trillion, far below the levels of a medical dose. Also, utilities insist their water is safe.

    But the presence of so many prescription drugs โ€” and over-the-counter medicines like acetaminophen and ibuprofen โ€” in so much of our drinking water is heightening worries among scientists of long-term consequences to human health.

    In the course of a five-month inquiry, the AP discovered that drugs have been detected in the drinking water supplies of 24 major metropolitan areas โ€” from Southern California to Northern New Jersey, from Detroit to Louisville, Ky.

    Water providers rarely disclose results of pharmaceutical screenings, unless pressed, the AP found. For example, the head of a group representing major California suppliers said the public “doesn’t know how to interpret the information” and might be unduly alarmed.

    How do the drugs get into the water?

    People take pills. Their bodies absorb some of the medication, but the rest of it passes through and is flushed down the toilet. The wastewater is treated before it is discharged into reservoirs, rivers or lakes. Then, some of the water is cleansed again at drinking water treatment plants and piped to consumers. But most treatments do not remove all drug residue.”


  35. @Pat

    Yes, the kangen water ionizer is approved by the Canadian Ministry of Health and Labour. Lucky Canadians! They know a good thing when they see one. Not like the US and their lobbying machine. Most things get stuck in all of that bureaucratic red tape for decades.


  36. Pat
    I was thinking the same thing from my reading of Slides 21-23 in GP’s presentation

    Ionization of H2O releases hydrogen ions [H+] & hydroxyl ions [OH-]

    In an aqueous solution, most of the water molecules remain intact, but some can dissociate into hydrogen ions (H+) and ( OH-) only to rapidly recombine in a reversible reaction represented thus: H2O H+ + OH-

    also Slide 26

    For the chemical reactions in all cells to work properly, there must be a correct balance of H+ and OH-

    Besides water, other compounds in cells can release H+ or OH- and affect cell function

    So why do we need to drink ionized water $& H ?


  37. I’ve been away from BU for 1 1/2 days and the posts on kangen water ionizers have picked up. I’m truly enjoying the debate, even the negative ones because just 2 days ago I’ve been blessed with 5 sales, 3 at $4,000 and 2 at $6,000. Yes, Kangen has an industrial machine that retails for $6,000. Go figure!

    @Pat, what ever floats your boat and works for you continue to do it. I wish you nothing but the best of health.


  38. Pat & S& H

    Again from GPโ€™s presentation we read that โ€œ No organism, can develop and grow without water.All chemical reactions in organisms occur in liquid water.An aqueous solution, which consists of solutes in water, is essential for chemical reactions to occur. Most biological activities occur in aqueous (water-based) solutions. Water is able to dissolve small non polar covalent molecules, ionic compounds, and other polar covalent molecules.Water soluble molecules are described as hydrophilic (water loving). Hydrophilic molecules dissolve in water. Those molecules that are not soluble in water are hydrophobic (water hating or fearing). Hydrophobic molecules โ€“ repel water.

    Is it not true that most drugs are hydrophobic? So how come that all these drugs are found in drinking water? Surely this does not occur in Bajan drinking water.

    Again we read, and I quote โ€œA substance with a pH of 7,such as pure water, is said to be neutral; it is neither acidic nor basic because it has equal numbers of H+ and OH-โ€ฆโ€ฆIn fact, the acidic soils of the Amazon rain forest contain less than half as many bacterial species as do the neutral soils of the deserts in the American Southwest.

    Would this not indicate that we need acidic water rather than alkaline? Why cant city authorities acidify water slightly to kill microbes before neutralizing the water before sending it out for human consumption?


  39. Pat & S&H once more!

    GP informs us that โ€œFor our purposes, an acid is a chemical that donates H+ to water or another solution. By contrast, a base (or alkali) is a substance that accepts hydrogen ions in solution, often by combining them with the hydroxyls of the base.
    Then in slide 28 he says โ€œA substance with a pH of 7,such as pure water, is said to be neutral; it is neither acidic nor basic because it has equal numbers of H+ and OH-.

    Ion slide 29 we read โ€œAcids and Bases Must Be Balanced in Cells An acid is a chemical substance that donates a H+ to a solution; a base accepts the H+ The pH scale indicates the acidity or alkalinity of a solution. Cell chemistry is very sensitive to changes in pH

    Then from slide 42 onwards he points out that โ€œBuffers Are a Combination of a Weak Acid and Baseโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆ.Buffers prevent pH shiftsโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆ..Buffers are aqueous systems that resist changes in pH when small amounts of a strong acid or base are addedโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆA buffered system consist of a weak acid and its conjugate base. โ€œ

    Then he says โ€œBuffers are a mixture of a weak acid and a weak base that maintain acid/base balance in cells. Excess hydrogen ions can be absorbed by the base and too few hydrogen ions can be provided by the acid.โ€ So wont the buffer systems in our bodies negate or cancel out the effects of this ionized water?

    Have not people been living for donkey years in Barbados without this ionized water?


  40. @ Sweet and Health

    There is no CANADIAN MINISTRY OF HEALTH AND LABOUR.

    Please dont quote the Enagic spin to me.


  41. Pat & S & H again!

    Finally slide 44 where GP asserts โ€œAs microorganismsโ€”and all organismsโ€”take up or ingest nutrients and undergo metabolism, chemical reactions occur that use up or produce H+. It is important for all organisms to balance the acids and bases in their cells because chemical reactions and organic compounds are very sensitive to pH shifts.

    Likewise, when most microbes grow in a microbiological nutrient medium, the waste products produced may lower the pH of the medium, which could kill the organisms. To prevent pH shifts, cells and the growth media contain buffers, which are compounds that maintain a specific pH. The buffer does not necessarily maintain a neutral pH, but rather whatever pH is required for that environment. Most biological buffers consist of a weak acid and a weak base If an excessive number of H+ are produced (potential pH drop), the base can absorb them. Alternatively, if there is a decrease in the hydrogen ion concentration (potential pH increase), the weak acid can dissociate, replacing the lost hydrogen ions.

    If GPโ€™s Biochemistry notes are correct, I really cant see why we need ionized water. It seems that the buffer systems in the body would obviate any effects of such water when it gets into the body and the cells.


  42. @ Anon

    My understanding exactly.

    It seems I was right in my first assumption. Sweet and Healthy is a SALES PERSON for the product. As such anything he/she says from now on is suspect. Maybe they came here just for the marketing.


  43. @sweet&healthy

    You would have found out by now that the BU family is a rather discerning one.


  44. @Anon

    “Is it not true that most drugs are hydrophobic? So how come that all these drugs are found in drinking water? Surely this does not occur in Bajan drinking water.”

    2 reasons anon, maybe they haven’t tested the water in Barbados for pharmaceutical drugs yet. Another, maybe the recycled water hasn’t been returned to the public yet, itโ€™s inevitable.
    @Dr, GP
    Regarding Anon statement: โ€œWhy cant city authorities acidify water slightly to kill microbes before neutralizing the water being sending it for human consumption.โ€
    In science 101 we were taught that the human body is at its healthiest when itโ€™s 80% alkaline and 20% acidic, but nowadays, most of us are 20% alkaline and 80% acidic. In 193?, German scientist Otto Warburg , who won the noble prize said, โ€œno disease, especially cancer, can strive in an alkaline environment.โ€ Given the high rates of cancer, especially in Barbados, I would say that Warburg was a man before his time and was correct since a lot of people, especially the ones who take tons of vitamins, drink bush tea, nooni juice, monavie and things of that nature are still getting cancer at an alarming rate.โ€ Anon, I seriously hope that the government donโ€™t act upon your suggestion and acidify the water. God help those without a kangen water ionizer if they do.


  45. @Anon

    You have to give credit to Dr. GP. He did not argue nor comment. Just posted his presentation from one of his classes.

    He that can understand will understand. He who does not will spend $4,000US on a machine with no verifiable benefits.

    Now I understand why Bush Tea refers to us as MMEs and the Creator as the BBE. Our maker had to have been one BIG BOSS ENGINEER!!! The body is a magnificent creation.

    There is a lady, 105, in Hillswick Village. Mrs. Trotman has never drank a drop of ionized water. She walks everywhere, does her own cooking, reads, sews, cleans, etc. Her daughter helps with her laundry and yard work. I saw her last year, she is still sharp. Two houses from her is a 91 year old. In the same condition. Neither one is on any medication for anything. They are both slim women and have never heard of ionized water.

    A scam is hatched and a fool born everyday.


  46. @Sweet & Healthy

    Now that you have had your 15 mins. of
    free publicity. I think it is time to close
    shop.
    Adios amiga.
    By the way if you stop eating all dem sweets you will lose moreof them extra love handles.
    Dont bother responding because i ain’t no fool.


  47. @Pat

    LOL the last place I would sell anything is around Bajans. For them, health is minor compared to huge houses, the lastest cars and gear.


  48. @ac.

    “Love handles and lose more weight. ” I’m fit as a fiddle at desired weight. Maybe, if you bought a kangen water ionizer you’ll lose yours. The company has direct sales. google them.


  49. @David, I think you should rethink “discerning” more like narrow-minded.

The blogmaster invites you to join the discussion.

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