God is subtle but he is not malicious. – Albert Einstein
Many of our astute and learned intellectuals on BU have been waiting patiently for a discourse on this rather voluminous topic since last year. It would be remiss and foolhardy in denying the pivotal role that science plays in our world today – for ever increasing connectivity has never been so necessary to everyday normal human existence.
Much of modern science starts with Einstein who first proposed his General Theory of Relativity in 1915. It describes how any massive object, such as the Sun, creates gravity by bending space and time around it. Everything in that space is also bent: even rays of light. Consequently, distant light sources, behind the massive object, can appear in a different position or look brighter than they would otherwise. So the total eclipse of 29th May 1919 gave scientists the chance to test the theory for the first time.
Astronomer Professor Pedro Ferreira from the University of Oxford argued that:- “This first observational proof of General Relativity sent shockwaves through the scientific establishment… it changed the goalposts for physics.”
“Einstein’s assumption agreed beautifully with everything else and allowed him to discover a number of great things so that nobody ever questioned it,” said Bahram Mashhoon, Professor of Physics in the MU College of Arts and Science. “All forces need to be of quantum origin, but Einstein’s general relativity theory, which is the modern theory of gravitation, has not yet been brought into conformity with quantum theory. The modern theories of special and general relativity have their origins in the problems associated with the way electromagnetic waves appear to observers in motion.”
However, scientists at Texas A&M University, in the August 24th issue of Physics contend that – “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it,” sums up fairly well how many scientists have viewed Einstein’s theory of general relativity. But outside of the gamut of Einsteinian mathematical wisdom – what is his position on how the Universe is ordered? Are his philosophical paradigms coherent with his ideas on science and God? Also, what can we deduce from other scientists who hold religious, philosophical as well as empirical scientific knowledge?
This is the CONNUNDRUM? This is the circle that many astute and learned men have been trying to square since the days of Copernicus, Galileo, Newton & Halley to mention but a mere few names.
So what is the answer?
The New York Times reported that 40% of American scientists believe in a personal God to whom they pray. The numbers in Europe are about the same. It is from this vantage point that we examine the thesis of our discourse by drawing upon the foundational paradigms of Prof. John Polkinghorne – noted former Professor of Mathematical & Quantum Physics at Cambridge who in his mid career became an Anglican priest. His books include Science and Creation, Science and Providence, Belief in God in An Age of Science, Serious Talk: Science and Religion in Dialogue, The Faith of a Physicist, The God of Hope and the End of the World, Exploring Reality, and Quantum Physics and Theology.
As the goodly Professor puts it – “Physics is powerless to establish the rational intelligibility of the Universe… It is often felt that in religion you have faith; in science you have fact, and that no faith is involved in science. That is patently false. All science depends and proceeds on the basis of believing that the Universe is rationally intelligible, you wouldn’t do science if you didn’t believe that. But science itself cannot give it to you.” He describes his view of the world as critical realism and believes that there is “One World”, with science and religion both addressing aspects of the same reality.
Professor Polkinghorne considers that “the question of the existence of God is the single most important question we face about the nature of reality.” He addresses the questions of “Does the concept of God make sense? If so, do we have reason for believing in such a thing?” But he is “cautious about our powers to assess coherence,” pointing out that in 1900 a “competent… undergraduate could have demonstrated the ‘incoherence’” of Quantum ideas. He suggests that “the nearest analogy in the physical world [to God] would be … the Quantum Vacuum.”
He suggests that God is the ultimate answer to Leibniz’s great question “why is there something rather than nothing?” The Atheist’s “plain assertion of the world’s existence” is a “grossly impoverished view of reality,” he says, arguing that “Theism explains more than a reductionist atheism can ever address.” He “does not assert that God’s existence can be demonstrated in a logically coercive way (any more than God’s non-existence can) but that theism makes more sense of the world, and of human experience, than does atheism.”
Freeman Dyson (Professor of Theoretical Physics at the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton with disciplines in Mathematics and Astronomy, a Futurist, famous for his work in Quantum Mechanics) argue that “the more I examine the Universe and the details of its Architecture, the more evidence I find that the Universe in some sense must have known we were coming” and suggests there is a wide consensus amongst physicists that either there are a very large number of other universes in a multiverse or that “there is just one universe which is the way it is in its anthropic fruitfulness because it is the expression of the purposive design of a Creator, who has endowed it with the finely tuned potentiality for life.”
If epistemology follows ontology according to Professor Polkinghorne, then it is logical to infer that different epistemologies have a relationship of verisimilitude hence the relationship of consonance and assimilation.
Professor Polkinghorne says that he is “believer in the unity of knowledge. There is one world of reality – one world of our experience that we’re seeking to describe. Of course, there are different aspects and levels of that reality; we can encounter the same event in a different way. We could describe it in very physical terms, or as a carrier of beauty, or a moment of moral choice; it could be the moment we encounter God. There are these different layers. But somewhere they’ve all got to fit together. I want to put them together in a way that respects the different characters of each level that I experience, as well as the fact that the experience is of one reality. I want a consonant relationship, for example, between science and theology. Science cannot tell theology how to construct a doctrine of creation, but you can’t construct a doctrine of creation without taking account of the age of the universe and the evolutionary character of cosmic history. I also think we need to maintain distinctions – the doctrine of Creation is different from a scientific cosmology, and we should resist the temptation, which sometimes scientists give in to, to try to assimilate the concepts of theology to the concepts of science. There is a distinction that needs to be maintained.”
As Renaissance shift from the dualistic thinking of Descartes and Newton to the present understanding of reality as one – Einsteinian cosmology helps us to appreciate the role that the general theory of relativity, “that space and time and matter are all linked together, so that the world is relational in that sense. That is a very important development, and many theologians have seen in it a suggestion of the relational thinking of a Trinitarian theology.”
Polkinghorne argues that “the discovery of quantum theory, which has brought about a number of changes in our thinking about the world – suggest that the world is no longer tightly deterministic and mechanical; there is a probabilistic character to physical process. And, of course, quantum theory also has its own relational character. Once two quantum entities interact with each other, they retain a very surprising and counterintuitive power to influence each other, however far they separate. Quantum theory also tells us that the world is not simply objective; somehow it’s something more subtle than that. In some sense it is veiled from us, but it has a structure that we can understand.”
In conclusion, Polkinghorne believes that bottom up thinkers try to start from experience and move from experience to understanding. They don’t start with certain general principles they think beforehand are likely to be true; they just hope to find out what reality is like. If the experience of science teaches anything, it’s that the world is very strange and surprising. The many revolutions in science have certainly shown that. If that’s true of our encounter with the physical world, it’s likely to be even truer of our encounter with God.
You asked a question, it was answered, you disagree, we agree to disagree.
It makes BU point, belief in God is a leap of faith, it is that simple. To engage scientific argument to support if there is a God is a baseless position.
@Chris
David speaks for David.
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Technician
I can tell you this ..God is on every thread….can’t seem to get away from that!
@David
I am getting to like yourspirit.However i did not agree to disagree on this point with you. Moreover I did not ask for any
scientific proof of the existence of God from you .To make a long story longerI am going to presume you are unable to make aleap of faith when it comes to explaining or defining the word “Faith”.
Therefore I must say the word faith is easier said than done or in this case DEFINED
David agreed to disagree on a point of clarification.
Here is a web definition of the word faith, why reinvent the wheel?
Definitions of faith on the Web:
religion: a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; “he lost his faith but not his morality”
complete confidence in a person or plan etc; “he cherished the faith of a good woman”; “the doctor-patient relationship is based on trust”
religion: an institution to express belief in a divine power; “he was raised in the Baptist religion”; “a member of his own faith contradicted him”
loyalty or allegiance to a cause or a person; “keep the faith”; “they broke faith with their investors”
@David
Which one of those definitions you agree on?
Or if any?
answer truthfully. Just be patient.
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Georgie Porgie
May I just say that there is a need to define words like “believe”, “know” and “faith”.
I will write an article on this in due course.
Faith (greek pistis) for example refers to a body of information delivered to the saints (Jude 3) in other words the Scriptures.
I do not have a Stron’s with me, but I am sure that a nother Greek word is used in Luke 18:8 when Jesus said that on his return he will not find faith.
Note that in Romans 1o:17 we read that faith cometh my hearing the Word of God (i.e the faith in a sense).
I wonder if Zoe can give us a word study on faith using his Strong’s .
That should be a start.
When the reformation began it was said that folk would be led by the Word of God.. The world has departed so far from the Word that folk are generally confusedby what is right and what is wrong.
For example should we observe a period called lent as the RC church does and the Anglicans – who are essntially RC’s with a little twist. But does the Lord or any of the apostles teach the keepping of a pweriod called Lent?
You see the Reformers left the RC church but took with them much of the pagan junk that entered the “church” when the church and the state meged in AD 313 contrary to the Word of God.
Yesterday JC was confused about “milk and honey” no doubt because she has heard the prosperity gospel teachers teach the heresy that all believers or church goers should be rich.
Maybe she was confused too because she has heard men teach that Cannaan (where the milk and honey was to be found by Israel ) is a picture of heaven.
And they teach believers are in heaven now (the land of milk and honey ) or headed there. But Revelation 21 doesnot decribe heven in this way. And in the land of the milk and honey, Israel had to fight giants, battles, anrd even themselves. This wont happen in heaven from any descrptin the Bible gives of this place.
We are either going by the Apostle’s doctrine as the early church did or not. Those of us who seek to do so seriously are scoffed at and mocked because we seem to be out of line or to be odd balls. The truth is we are not. The truth is that most of Christendom is teaching error, and are not functioning according to the precepts of the OT.
Where in the NT do you read of believers worshipping in great edifices, or in mega churches or attending stations of the cross, or learning a cathechism etc etc.
Where in the NT do you read of sacrements? The NT speaks of two ordinances on the church, and two offices of the church.
Where in the NT do we read of An Arch Bishop who is over bishops and acaste of priests.
The NT teaches that ALL believers are priess in 1 Peter 2, and that a bishop = an elder = a pastor. And we can go on.
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Zoe
For over 2,000 years of Church History, the true saints of The Lord Jesus Christ have a collective, amazing testimony to their resolute *FAITH* trust, assurance, reliance, in Him and His Word, the Bible, that have been proven in their *lives* across a literal multiplicity of ways and circumstances, that while it does not meet the scientific standard of empirical evidence; nevertheless, IS good enough for US, re the *moral* certainty of what we consider to be ABSOLUTE, from our vast COLLECTIVE experiences.
Let me put it to you this way, IF, Bill Gates offered me 50% of his vast wealth, in CASH, or for that matter, any material thing I wanted, BUT, I had first to DENY, CURSE, and FORSAKE my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, I would SAY to Gates, keep your money man!!
The natural world of all life forms, the unspeakable Majesty and Glory of Almighty God’s Creation, simply CANNOT be observed by and rational person, who then foolishly says, ‘I don’t believe in God…”
But, the WITNESS that true Born Again believers HAVE inside, in their *spirit* that WAS NOT there before, cannot be adequately expressed in words, that IS understandable to the ‘unsaved’ person, it GOES way beyond just subjective FAITH, only those of us who have being *spiritually* regenerated can say with ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE, that we *KNOW* that we *KNOW* because, we….KNOW…”
Quantum physics/mechanics is trying so hard to either define reality or dispel its existence through processes of randomization…
To try and disprove the existence of God through human theory is downright salacious at best and Frankensteinian at worse…
Why would an ETERNAL CREATOR* be bound the fluid laws which HE* put in motion?
That’s where the penny drops….
That’s where human reason, theory and empirical claptrap falls headlong into the abyss of dystopia…
Men who deem themselves wise – but are really IDIOTS* think and even (believe) that they can quantify GOD* down to some reducible phenomena to be studied, discovered and explored…
Let’s face it – QP/QM simply cannot MEASURE* the existence of the reality of GOD* – for the mere fact that God dwells beyond the realm creative reality or imagination…
The problem with most of us (especially scientists) is this idea that reality is either one way or another…
How in the world could QP/QM be ever able to accurately measure what some call “definable reality” when there is really no defined state of reality outside of what we call our physical senses??? Any attempt at these theoretical thought experiments are just that – (USELESS EXPERIMENTS) which attempt to anthropomorphize God in a way that Aristole, Aquinas & Maimonides would have none if it….
“NOW QUANTUM PHYSICS SAYS GOODBYE TO REALITY” – where does it end folks?
I believe that God created humans with a highly developed brain and has left us to develop and improve the world we live in for all. We have failed so far.
I don’t believe God is responsible for the destruction in Haiti or Hurricanes or Tsunamis.
I believe that it is possible he may answer prayers but I have a problem understanding why helpless little children are allowed to suffer terrible illnesses.
My christian upbringing has provided me with a fear of the consequences of any inclination to very bad behaviour.
I simply believe there is a God and that my actions on earth will be judged by him. I hope he will be merciful.
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kiki
people need to have faith in themselves
whatever they believe
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kiki
The Undergods
Where did the whole idea of undergods come from?
We felt that we were underrated.
We underground individuals that carry the torch for so long in itself that we felt we were underdogs.
The we flipped the dogs to Gods.
Then we just know our grounds, it starts from the underground.
We clarify that now.
This is for the underground.
We don’t have major backing.
So we are not looking for major sales.
We are looking to solidify creativity.
Jesus used the word “Faith” to teach his followers a positive way of thinking.Most
people do use faith to guide them.Like when we tell each other “don’t worry everything will be alright’.That statement
in itself is an indication of one’s Faith.
It is the way a person used their mind to influence the outcome of a situation in a positive way.It is a good thing to have “Faith”
@David
Iasked a question of you previously still waiting for an answer
The Undergods (*)
(*)=Undergods
(*)=(aka Keith Murray & Canibus)
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kiki
Underground Horror, Show ’em what crazy is
Underground Horror, Show ’em what crazy is
Underground Horror, Show ’em what crazy is
Underground Horror, Show ’em what crazy is
It’s a hard job but somebody got to do it
It’s a hard job but somebody got to do it
(keith murray)
Come sit with me Canibus and Keith Murray
Ain’t shit been this sick since the legalisation of Christianity
Mentally I explore universally there’s no boxing me in
I rock with Martin Luther-bility
Me and Bis might be
The two sickest scientist emcees probing the galaxy
I know you don’t like me, I get love from your wifey
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Hopi
The only reason why we need faith right now is to help overcome all the religious dogmas that were forced upon us.
The bible said Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Before there was one Bible people didn’t live by faith, they lived by KNOWLEDGE.
@Terence M. Blackett: “To try and disprove the existence of God through human theory is downright salacious at best and Frankensteinian at worse…
TMB, with all due respect, you (and some others) come across as desperately confused. At least to me, and I have reason to believe, many others.
Science is not trying to disprove a “supreme being”; one or more gods.
In fact, the more we research, the stranger the universe within which we find ourselves (and others that we can think about with these (as you claim) “useless thought experiments”).
For the record, as I’ve said before, I shifted my personal believe system from Atheist to Agnostic once I understood the ramifications of Quantum Theory.
However, and importantly, Science relies on *evidence* which can be measured by everyone. Evidence, and Logic and Mathematics which again can be done by everyone.
The fundamental issue (in my and many minds) is when someone tries to tell someone else that only their God(s) can be the One and Only God(s).
Such positions *cannot* be proven. Therefore, it is a dishonest (and frankly, empirically, dangerous) position.
(Note: quoting from one or more ancient books written in nebulous ancient language(s) by ancients who did not “know” what we now “know” talking about events which cannot be proven is not proof.)
But notice that although there is this duality, nobody would deny the existence of light.
There is no indeterminacy in that existence,……
….. just in science’s attempt to explain that existence.
……
…. and so mankind stumbles on, unable to explain,….
…. but ….
….. continuing, like the ancients, to write in nebulous language about what they “knew”……
…. which the ancients before them did not “know”.
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Alex Fergusson
Is is easy to tell that DLP Ministers are intellectually waek; lost and have therefore put this country in a perilous crisis – for which they should all be now sentence for life in economic jail.
+++++++++++++++++
By Clyde Mascoll
“According to the evidence, the three major indirect taxes – Value Added Tax (VAT), excise tax and import duties – fell by a combined $210 million in 2009 compared with 2008.
If the majority of workers are on fixed incomes and prices are rising, then their spending power is reduced.
The imposition of taxes in such an environment would only serve to further reduce their spending power; it is that simple.
If there is a collective reduction in spending across the economy, the Government would collect less VAT.
Furthermore, the reduced spending power of the consumers would cause the merchants to import less and therefore the Government would collect less import duties.
Excise taxes are imposed on alcohol, tobacco, gasoline and diesel, to name a few. Hence, less spending on these commodities would lead to less excise taxes.
According to the provisional data, the country’s import bill declined by almost $800 million in 2009 compared with 2008 and the overall balance of payments position was in surplus as opposed to a deficit of half-billion dollars in 2008.
Therefore, the country should have realised domestic savings – except that the public sector has sucked up all the savings with the untenable fiscal position. ”
@John: “The wave particle duality that exists in electrons also applies to light.
Of course.
The point I was trying to make was that the double slit experiment was first conducted using light (photons), because they were immediately available.
This experiment has since been conducted using also both electrons and protons — duality (read: uncertainty; read: unpredictability) manifests.
@John et al…
The point I keep trying to make (perhaps a little to subtly) is that some rely greatly on ancient writings, written by unknown authors who did not know as much as we know now.
What does the Bible say about electrons?
What does the Bible say about protons?
What does the Bible say about quarks?
What does the Bible say about the Higgs Boson?
These are, for clarity, rhetorical questions; the answer is, of course, nothing.
Because such questions couldn’t even be conceived or asked then — they still hadn’t yet figured out atoms…
My fundamental point is, please don’t try to tell me that the Bible (or any other ancient text) is absolutely authoritative unless it can provide to me tests which I can independently conduct whose results agree with what is claimed.
For what that is worth….
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Alex Fergusson
You do not have to be Einstein to know that if the majority of workers are on fixed incomes and prices are rising, then their spending power is reduced.
You do not have to be Einsten to know that the imposition of taxes in such an environment would only serve to further reduce their spending power; it is that simple.
The DLP is intellectually weak and the longer they remain the government, Barbadians will be forced to endure unnecessary pain and suffering.
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kiki
I just gotta be real, I just gotta be real,
I just gotta be real, I just gotta be real,
(Keith Murray)
You got too much mouth and not enough action
We still possess skills to spit them hot classics
And to whoever, you’ll never
The new two man crew weather
Trapped in a lyrical labyrinth
You don’t understand, keep listening, it will all make sense
Our algorithms to the rhythms
Make rappers look smaller than micro-organisms
(Canibus)
Masters of the Ceremony any territory
Microbial terraforming, UnderGods farming
For the first time in my life, I had to take a step back
Rewind tracks and listen to the raps
No directions, no interruptions, spit substance
I’m nobodies spit puppet, I say what I want you take what you want from it
Just move beyond your differences, don’t run from it
Two of the sharpest who ever done it show you why they love it
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Alex Fergusson
To finance the deficit the Government has relied heavily on the National Insurance Fund.
In the last two years alone, National Insurance has funded over $440m of government deficits, this is more than funded by the National Insurance in the preceding 6 years.
The Government is borrowing from National Insurance in an unprecedented manner and quantity and this requires independent assurances that pensioners are not being put at risk.
Since you keep manifesting, perhaps *you* could answer a question or two:
1. What is your real name?
2. In your opinion, did Jesus Christ ever use an alias?
Please advise.
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Alex Fergusson
Prices in Barbados have increased by more than 12% in the last 2 years in spite of the Prime Minister’s commitment that his top 3 priorities would be cost of living, cost of living, cost of living.
Prices in Barbados have risen more as a result of domestic actions and policies than the international environment.
When oil and commodity prices dropped at the end of 2008 and in 2009 prices continued to rise in Barbados.
Increased water rates and land taxes and other fees have nothing to do with the outside world.
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Georgie Porgie
please don’t try to tell me that the Bible (or any other ancient text) is absolutely authoritative unless it can provide to me tests which I can independently conduct whose results agree with what is claimed.
For what that is worth….
————————————————
METHOD
1- Take a sinner from any nation of any color
2- Present him with the gospel message
3- when that sinner repents of his sin and confesses same and that sinner asks the LORD JESUS TO COME INTO HIS HEART & DAVE HIS SOUL
4 THE CONSISTENT RESULT IS THAT THE SINNER IS GLORIOUSLY SAVED AND LIVES A NEW LIFE
Why is this?
Because 1 John 1: 9 says that Jesus is FAITHFUL & JUST TO FORGIVE US OUR SINS AND CLEANSE US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS
What does FAITHFUL & JUST mean?
FAITHFUL: He is consistent! The repentant confessing sinner will get the same response EVERY TIME and EVERYWHERE
JUST : just means that Jesus won the right to act in this way when he died for the sins of the whole world and the whole world of sin.
Two day ago JC asked why does God forgive me 70 X 7 for my sins. Well Jesus died for the sins of the whole world and the whole world of sin.
In other words he died for all the sins you have committed and those you are yet to commit. Since he made an agreement with Jeus to pay for the sins of the whole world and the whole world of sin, and sinve he is a gentleman, GOD MUST FORGIVE SIN.
But there is the unpardonable sin!
And God will not forgive folk who substitute thier work of trying to copme to him BY THIER OWN MEANS. BECAUSE HE HAS DECLARED THAT MEN MUST COME TO HIM BY THE FINISHED WORK OF JESUS CHRIST ON THE CROSS>
Jesus is the WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER EXCET BY HIM (JOhn 14:6)
For there is no other name given under heaven amng men by which we can be saved Acts 4:12
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Alex Fergusson
Did Thompson LIE?
The Central Bank Report on the economy for 2009 show clearly that current reveune is less than current expenditure.
Is telling lies now acceptable. Has Barbados lost its sense of outrage.
Is it alright for the government to lie to the people?
Are you saying that I and the millions of sinners all around the globe over the centuries, and even in our time and even today does not constitute EVIDENCE.
How can you say that the EVIDENCE OF THE CONVERSION EXPERIENCE OF SO MANY WHO HAVE COME TO CHRIST UNDER THE SOUND OF THE GOSPEL is unsubstantiated claims.
It is a waste of time even trying to communicate with you.
You are too dishonest. I sincerely believe that you are a devil.,,,,not because you disagree with me but you commit the unpardonable sin of not attributing to the Spirit that which he has certainly wrought in the lives of so many.
Re
Have you ever spent any time in a Buddhist country (like, say, Cambodia)? Getting to know the people and their beliefs without trying to convert them? I have.
SO WHAT?
YOU HAVE TRAVELLED.
GOOD FOR YOU.
HAVE YOU EVER SEEN OR HEARD THE GOSPEL MESSAGE PREACHED AND SAW SINNERS REPENT SOULS SAVED AND LIVES CHANGED FROM SIN?
@Mr. Georgie Porgie (probably not his real name): “You are too dishonest. I sincerely believe that you are a devil.,,,,not because you disagree with me but you commit the unpardonable sin of not attributing to the Spirit that which he has certainly wrought in the lives of so many.
But when you get down to it, I’m the real blame
Because I wanted the fame
Money is not only the root of all evil
It’s also the destruction of black people, so
Conjunction junction, what’s your function?
Bein a scout, or sellin out?
Look in the mirror at yourself, eye to eye
And say: who am i?
[gamilah shabazz]
A solid change, have to rearrange this strange
Feelin I’m feelin, so appealin
I am having to deal with
Time to forget the myth, of bein black and a woman
Can’t get ahead, walkin on a thread, a tightrope
Can’t cope, don’t be a dope, have a little bit of hope
Runnin your scope on affairs
You have to be aware, don’t flare up
Let your cup runneth over
I’m not irish, don’t need a clover to fill up my dish
Nor two mango wish to wish on a star, they’re so far
Anyway I’m thinkin about today, not tomorrow
I’m not a follower of anyone
My time has come, it’s already here
My message is clear
Like the women of long ago, I am also here
Also to show, I have the courage
Have the strength, I’m for equal opportunity
No matter the life, length of time
Show me a sign, should I rely on a
Subliminal message, should I question
What would seem to be, lie’s told me?
Yes indeed, so let me speak
[big daddy kane]
And that’s comin from the daughter of malcolm x
So black women put it in your texts
So you can never let, opportunity pass you by
Or even ask yourself, who am i?
Human beings from across every spectrem of *COLOUR* class, ethnicity, from intellectual, i.e., Athiest, Agnostic, Skeptic, former Witches, Satanists, etc, etc, HAVE CAME to the Lord Jesus Christ for Salvation, AND their testimonies, regardless of where they come from, ARE ALL strickingly similar.
My niece’s miraculous healing of Macular Degeneration Wet, at age 39, CANNOT be explained scientifically, even the Jewish eye specialist in Miami, who looked after her for over a year, said, YES, it is a *MIRACLE* as he has NEVER seen or heard of anthing like this in medicine. On her last visit to him, he told her that when he FIRST examined her eye, the CONDITION was so far advanced, he did NOT expect her to have ANY VISION AT ALL, within a short period of time.
BUT….BUT…her mother, my sister, and many other Christians prayed earnestly to JESUS for her complete HEALING, and TODAY….the eye specialist said to her, YOU EYE *IS* as though IT NEVER has MD Wet in the first place. MIRACULOUS!!!
That….Halsall….IS the JESUS CHRIST who HEALED her totally and completely.
BTW, she just moved house, when she is more settled in, she has promised to send me, the BEFORE and AFTER computer print-out’s done by the Eye Specialist in Miami, LIVING *empirical* PROOF of the Miraculous!
JESUS, the same YESTERDAY, TODAY, and FOREVER, the Eternal Creator of the Universe!!!
So Chris you have “graduated” from (ATHEIST* to AGNOSTIC*) on a wing and a prayer in a matter of what (6 months to a year) – the period of time I have been on BU –
WOW Chis* – I fear you may be on a slippery slope heading down (Aspen) towards to your next stop –
BELIEF IN THE LORDSHIP OF JESUS CHRIST!!!
Hey Chris, I’ll keep the “BUBBLY” on ice just in case!!!
@Zoe Don’t you know that God also gave the body the necessary tools in helping to heal itself.
Speaking of miracles.How was it possible for Jesus to feed 5 thousand people with five barley loaves and two small fishes.
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Zoe
@ac “Speaking of mircales. How is it possible for Jesus to feed 5 thousand people with five barley loaves and two small fishes.”
Jesus CREATED the Universe, He sustains ALL THINGS…you think the miracle of feeding 5,000 with five barley loaves and two small fishes is ANYTHING for HIM to DO!
Job: Man’s Frailty and God’s Majesty.
“But Job answered and said:”
“How have YOU helped him whom IS without power? How have you saved the arm that has no STRENGTH? How have YOU counseled one who has NO wisdom? And how have YOU declared sound advice to many? To whom have YOU uttered words? And whose spirit came from YOU?”
“The dead TREMBLE, Those under the waters and those inhabiting them. Sheol is naked before Him. And Destruction has no covering. He stretches OUT the north over EMPTY spaces; He HANGS the earth on NOTHING. He binds up the water in His thick clouds. Yet the clouds are NOT broken under it. He covers the face of His throne, and spreads His cloud over it. He drew a *CIRCULAR* horizon on the face of the waters. At the boundary of LIGHT and DARKNESS. The pillars of heaven TREMBLE, And are astonished at His rebuke. He stirs up the sea with His POWER, and by His understanding He breaks up the storm. By His Spirit He adorned the heavens. His hand pierced the fleeing serpent.”
“Indeed these are the MERE *edges* of His WAYS, And how small a wisper we hear of Him!
“BUT the thunder of HIS POWER…who can understand?” (Job. 26: 1-14) emphasis added.
@ZOE
OK Since you are unable to explain the
“How”in reference to the miarcle of the feeding of the 5thousand.
Then can you tell what is the moral of the story?
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kiki
imho nobody here has any issues with
g o d per say..
it’s just that we find zoey’s and his ilk’s extremism mindset dubious and very
disturbing
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