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3S Barbados SRL To Meet With The PEOPLE Of Barbados To Discuss 'The Construction Of Flyovers On The ABC Highway' ~ We Hope Barbadians Attend In Large Numbers

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deep_found.jpgBU readers are reminded that 3S Barbados SRL, in association with the Government of Barbados, will be holding two town-hall meetings today, October 5, 2007, and Saturday, October 6, 2007. Click here to read the details. The town-hall meetings are a requirement by the Town Planning Department as part of the Environmental Impact Assessment, which was conducted in 2006. Barbados Underground urge Barbadians who can make it to the Samuel Jackman Polytechnic on October 5, 2007 – 6PM, and The Manor Lodge Complex on October 6, 2007 – 4.30PM to do so for two reasons: 1.) We consider it our civic duty and 2.) Attendance will help us to have intelligent discussions on the subject of the Operation Free Flow.

Our anonymous friend to BU and BFP posted the following quote to assist people who will be attending the town-hall meetings. We suspect that the scope of the meetings will fail to address cost issues because it is being promoted as a discussion about environmental impact assessment issues. However, if it is possible to find-out about the 3S Barbados SRL, April 2006 drawings of the Operation Free Flow Project, we should try to do so. Our sources indicate this is a vital piece of the puzzle, which we must expose at all cost.

This week there will be 2 town-hall meetings on the overpasses. Questions that need to be asked include (1) Has the final cost of the flyovers been decided and what is the cost. (2) Has a comprehensive feasibility study been carried out to determine the need for these flyovers. (3) Is the flyover solution the best solution (economically and technically) for the traffic congestion problems on the ABC highway. (4) does this solution solve the problem of traffic build-up on Waterford Road, Green Hill, Highway 2A, Collymore rock, Rendezvous road and other roads off the highway or is it just a solution for the highway leaving the real problem of traffic into Bridgetown untouched. (5) Would a solution that involves a non-traffic approach be a more long term solution. (6) If the flyovers are not constructed immediately will the unpaved areas under the flyovers (Warrens and Gary Sobers) be left unpaved. Does this mean that this approach was deliberately taken to ensure immediate construction of the flyovers whatever the cost.

Source: BU Anonymous Commenter

In one of our previous articles, we highlighted the point that was placed in the public domain by the Barbados Association of Engineers (BAPE). That association supports the view that a project the magnitude of Operations Free Flow should have had a consultant overseeing the project. Instead, we have 3S Barbados SRL where the same company is wearing two hats, that of contractor while at the same time doing the quality assurance work. Maybe, you are aware of some problems that Pakistan has had with flyovers collapsing in recent times. In response to the situation, the government has decided that consultants will have the responsibility for managing all significant projects, and will be held fully accountable for any faults in projects – read the full article.

Again, go out in your large numbers to the town-hall meetings, and hear what is being said about the two-year old 3S Barbados SRL, flyovers project. By the way, we received a note alleging that Robert Le Hunte’s nephew is working with 3S Barbados SRL. In case you have forgotten, BNB is financing the BOLT arrangement for the Operation Free Flow Project.

See links to previous stories:

Barbadians Demand to See The April, 2006 Drawings Detailing The Operations Free Flow Project NOW The FlyoversMedia House Takes Another Feeble Left Jab At The 3S Affair~Come On Vivian-Anne, There Is The Right HAND!!!

Clyde Mascoll Needs Only Three Minutes To Do Damage Control On 3S Barbados SRL

Nation Newspaper Finally Awakes From A Deep Slumber By Publishing The 3S Barbados SRL, Jonathan Danos Story ~ Can They Stay Awake?

The Truth, The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth About The Operations Free Flow Project In Barbados. Will It Ever Be Told?

Operations Free Flow Should Be Stopped NOW Pending A Further Geo-technical Study Media Houses In Barbados In Collusion With Government To Suppress News, Press Freedom Under Threat ~ The Voices Of The People Must Be Heard

Gline Clarke And Rihanna Tell Their Supporters To “Shut Up And Drive”

OPERATION Free Flow, Barbados Road Network Infrastructure Improvement Project (Flyover Project) To Triple In Cost From USD60 Million To USD180 Million~Gline Clarke And The Government Of Barbados Owe Barbadians A Big Explanation

ABC Highway Cost Triples Or More

 

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157 responses to “3S Barbados SRL To Meet With The PEOPLE Of Barbados To Discuss 'The Construction Of Flyovers On The ABC Highway' ~ We Hope Barbadians Attend In Large Numbers”

  1. Adrian Loveridge Avatar
    Adrian Loveridge

    I think if I am able to attend one of the meetings, my first questions might be:

    1) Mr Danos, will you be defending the lawsuit brought by Mabey and Johnson Ltd claiming you committed ‘fraud and conspiracy’?

    2) When did you actually leave Mabey and Johnson and when was 3S (Barbados), SRL registered?

    3) How is it that at a company registered in the United States under Structual Steel Solutions is listed as a communications manfacturer with an annual turnover of US$420,000 and five employees is given what effectively is a contract for a quoted BDS$360 million to expand roads and build flyovers?

    I am sure we can collectively add to these questions.

  2. Avatar
    Anonymous

    if he is being sued in jamacia what does that have to do with barbados idiot ??????????

  3. sensible man Avatar
    sensible man

    opps the above post was mine

  4. sensible man Avatar
    sensible man

    Mr. loveridge go tell Mr. Gordon Brown how to run his goverment and leave us in Barbados alone idiot

  5. B**F**P**E Avatar
    B**F**P**E

    We will be waiting and watching the attendees carefully. It must be videotaped. Make sure to get EVERY FACE of who attends.

    We also need to get a PHOTO of Adrian Loveridge.

    B**F**P**E

  6. Waterboy Avatar
    Waterboy

    I thought I saw a notice in the newspaper cancelling/postponing these meetings until a later date. The notice was in the press a few days ago.

  7. Concerned Bajan Avatar
    Concerned Bajan

    I was planning on going. So it off now?

  8. Fred Avatar
    Fred

    Is there any truth that Owen and Mr Mark Cummings have fallen out on a major issue and he has been asked to resign from the post of chief Town Planner??
    Should this be the case it reflects sadly on the role of the PM in the day to day affairs of the various ministries, it has been said many times before on this site that owen has been deeply involved in the act of overruling the CTP and permitting condos and big houses to be built.

  9. Wishing in Vain Avatar
    Wishing in Vain

    I have not seen any notices re cancellation of this meeting, when was it in the press?

  10. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    My biggest question is how will the flyovers on ABC Highway have a positive impact on my getting to the highway from Wildey, Warrens, Hothersal Turning, the coast road from Worthing to Bridgetown, etc.

    I can see how having the two lanes of traffic in either direction can do away with ignorant jam busting, but I still don’t get why we need flyovers to start with?

    Are these in exchange for something we, the people, know nothing about? It just makes no sense to me.

  11. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    BTW: unless I hear a public service announcement on all the radio stations that the meetings are off, I parking my behind at the Polytechnic and at Manor Lodge…if I can pass through all the traffic on time!

  12. ABC Avatar
    ABC

    Donna, here is how the flyovers will help you – I do not defend the structuring or execution of the project but I will continue to defend the efficacy of its purpose.

    The problem with the highway as it existed was that the roundabouts acted as bottlenecks with traffic going along the highway competing with traffic joining/exiting the highway and crossing the highway.

    The largest percentage of these separate groups was traffic going along the highway. By elevating the traffic that is going along the highway what they do is free up much needed capacity at the roundabouts making it easier to cross and join/exit the highway.

    The ratios are something like:

    Current ratio of volume to capacity of roundabouts at all times of the day in 2005 was 1.14:1 – i.e. 14% more volume than capacity. And given that this is at average at all times of the day you can only imagine what that ratio is at peak travel times. With projected vehicle growth that ratio skyrockets as we get to 2030.

    With the flyovers the ratio plummets to something like 0.2:1 and with the projected growth rates we do not get back into our current predicament until 2030 when the ratio is expected to be 1.1:1.

    In short we have bought ourselves a (now) 23 year solution to traffic congestion. It’s sound in my opinion.

  13. ABC Avatar
    ABC

    Now the natural reaction is to criticise the cost versus the 23 year benefit I’ve outlined above. I do not have an opinion on that as I do not know what the economic benefit is of not having people stuck in traffic for hours each day. Some economist would have to do the calculation of what the improved productivity would contribute to GDP, and by extension tax revenues.

  14. Frankology Avatar
    Frankology

    The meeting regarding the flyovers postponed until further notice. It appeared in the daily newspapers this week. Now let me enlightened you why I feel this meeting was postponed.

    On two occasions, the authorities responsible for the road works advertised meetings for the St. Barnabas Church and cancelled these said meeting hours before the actual meetings. These meetings were to discuss the widening of road and construction of under or overpass in the area. During the postponement, the contractor speed up construction on certain areas that might have been questionable regarding the highway. Would you believe that the next meeting was rescheduled and the residents only heard around 2 p.m on the radio that the meeting would be held the same evening at 6 p.m. The timing was geared to get rid or stop those people who might be diametrically opposed to the road works.

    The Impact and Environmental Impact study for the implementation of the Flyovers is not complete and this meeting might have been postponed to stall for time. In my earlier post, I asked the simple question. Where is the report from Hillis Carnes Engineering Ltd, which states of decaying limestone and the flyover being built on our water table and gullies? I hereby ask. Do we need flyovers in urban areas?

    While we are waiting for this meeting, you will see an increase of work, especially in the Life of Barbados where bases for the flyovers increase. That mean when the meeting occurs, the infrastructure for the flyovers would be in an advanced stage. In fact, we can cry until the cows come home, the Government is adamant to build these flyovers regardless to cost or advice from people.

    Any Impact Study should have been discussed and made public since 2005 when the flyovers were first mooted and not in 2007.

    That is why I keep saying, the Government was privileged to information regarding overall increases and the new scope of work since the early part of 2006.

  15. Frankology Avatar
    Frankology

    ABC your defending of the flyovers serves no logical purpose. Firstly, how can you start a project that will impact on the Environment and the residents living in close proximity of these said flyovers? I ask you in an earlier post to tell Barbadians the distance of a flyover from a residence and any country where flyovers are close to a community? If you fail to answer, do the logical thing and shut up!

    I will keep Barbadians inform about the unnecessary spending of our taxpayers dollars to fulfill a dream For Who? Certainly not us!

  16. Frankology Avatar
    Frankology

    In short we have bought ourselves a (now) 23 year solution to traffic congestion. It’s sound in my opinion. Quote ABC

    What nonsense, stop confusing people of ratios and percentages. The real factor is dollars and sense and we the taxpayers having to deal with this unnecessary flyover spending 25 years from now.

  17. ABC Avatar
    ABC

    re-read my post man – I don’t defend the structuring or execution of the project, I don’t know about laws relating to proximity, I don’t know the distances between flyovers and homes. I don’t really care, not because I am heartless but because as any reasonable person can see, we have a traffic probelm on this island. The reailty is that a solution is being implemented.

    I, as a road user, am interested in how it’s going to work when done and what tangible benefits will accrue to myself and other road users. It’s funny that you use the word logic, because I think my analysis of the logic of the system is quite sound. So screw you – I will not shut up.

  18. Frankology Avatar
    Frankology

    Adrian, I am here to defend you. I am a Barbadian and I have no where else to go. Now, Anonymous, Sensible Man and ABC answer the 3 questions that Adrian asked.

    It is about time we get some answers instead of excuses and personal attacks.

    Thanks to CO Williams for the excellent workmanship. Without them, it surely would have been an additional five to ten times the amount.

  19. ABC Avatar
    ABC

    look dude I was answering a specific question posted by a Donna. You are the one that attacked me calling my argument nonsense and telling me to shut up when my preamble clearly showed that I was not interested in defending parts of the project other than its purpose of easing traffic congestion.

    I even suggested a method by which the benefit could be calculated in dollars and cents – it’s quite possible that it is not worth the price of $360 million – but it is also possible (perhaps with a lower probability) that it is – no one seems to have done that calculation and I do not have the data to do so – otherwise I would.

  20. Frankology Avatar
    Frankology

    Since you are versed in logical thinking regarding flyover usage, you should be realistically smart in distances from residences. Your behaviour is the same way the flyovers were conceptualised. At the spur of the moment without the well being of residence and pedestrians. This is the 4th time I am asking you to answer the questions.

  21. ABC Avatar
    ABC

    Okay here are your answers:

    1 – how can you start a project without an EIA? I don’t know – I agree it doesn’t make sense.

    2 – distance from flyover to community here and in other countries? I guess 20 feet on the hill going down to Bussa, but I’ve never mentioned it. In another country – in Toronto the Gardiner expressway (an elevated roadway similar but larger than our flyovers) is about 5 to 10 feet from several new condo developments at the intersection of Bay Street, Spadina avenue, Yonge street, etc.

    3 – Does it fulfil a dream? Well if it works it will fulfil my dream of being able to go from town to anywhere, or from warrens to anywhere in half the time.

    Do those answers really help you, or anyone else?

    Let me help you frame your argument about costs becasue you seem to be having trouble – I really do not know about distances and type of thing – maybe you can go make some measurements.

    I make a bunch of assumptions for simplicity – I invite other to contribute on this.

    GDP = $6 billion
    workforce = 100,000
    GDP per worker per year = $40,000
    GDP per worker per productive hour = $19.23 ($40k/260 working days/8hours perday)

    If on average people save 30 minutes per day commuting that equals to 75,000 man hours per day or 19.8 million hours per year. If those manhours are put into productive effort then that would equal a boost to GDP of $380 million in one year.

    An economist would probably pick this argument apart due to the assumptions made but its a starting point – I invite you to contribute more.

  22. ABC Avatar
    ABC

    Sorry an error in there (clicked too quick), second last paragraph should be:

    If on average people save 30 minutes per day commuting that equals to 50,000 man hours per day or 13.2 million hours per year. If those manhours are put into productive effort then that would equal a boost to GDP of $253 million in one year (13.2 million hours X $19.23 per hour)

  23. ABC Avatar
    ABC

    Someone here tells me the 30 minutes is too high an assumption. At 10 minutes per day in savings the result works out to be $126.9 million.

    To take this further can someone provide total govt tax revenues as a % of GDP. You can calculate the marginal benefit to tax dollars by multiplying that ratio by the result calculated above.

    Then divide $360 million by that result to see how long Gov’t would take to pay back from the expected increase in taxes.

    If someone else has another method to calculate this I would be happy to help out.

    You see Frankology – using logic to frame an argument makes for a more logical and sound argument. It’s certainly much better than mouthing off with unsubstantiated claims – whether or not they may be correct they are still not supported by relevant information.

  24. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    ABC

    Let me sum up your arguments for you…

    “I do NOT know one sh1* about it, but there must be some sense in it…”

    spoken like a true bajan.

  25. David Avatar
    David

    Thanks for the feedback on the postponement of the meeting. We missed it.

    Now to the debate of the moment. We should not get ahead of ourselves for the reason Frankology has explained. We should not be having this discussion because an EIA has not been done to date. In light of the Britton’s Hill tragedy, this takes on even greater importance given that Barbados is known to have caves, caverns and limestone underfoot. The fact that Hills-Carnes Engineering was contracted by 3S is an admission of the environmental issues /concerns which should have been factored before a bulldozer was started. The debate using opportunity cost about productivity savings is irrelevant at this stage.

  26. ABC Avatar
    ABC

    Instead of attacking me for the sake of it why don’t you try arguing against the points that I’ve made.

    One argument could be that it is not going to work because of x, y and z – therefore it won’t save any time and won’t positivly impact GDP or tax revenues.

    Come on people – the project has been managed very badly. There should have been a fixed price contract signed before commencement of works, perhaps they should have finished one section before moving on to another, the tendering process should actually have gone out to tender – I agree with all of this.

    But those horses have left the stable, vote DLP in the next election to indicate your disapproval with this – that’s how things work in a democracy.

    But now that it is inevitable (they are not going to stop the project becasue of all these issues) is no one even willing to consider the potential benefits?

    What is really truly Bajan is a perennial pessimistic view of everything.

  27. David Avatar
    David

    ABC~it is your right to preach it! It is our right to expect that any benefits of the flyover project will be manifested overtime. However, we prefer to focus on the issue of accountability with a general election on the horizon.

    Bajans are known to have short memories. The Nation has published one blasted article on the 3S affair, VOB has done minimal coverage, CBC-TV and the Advocate, as far as we are aware, have said nothing. Now, tell us why we should sugar coat the flyover project in these circumstances with a general election near?

    The VOICES of the PEOPLE must be heard!

  28. Wishing in Vain Avatar
    Wishing in Vain

    because the regular media are so hand to mouth for the advertising that they pull in from the gov’t they are too scared to rock the boat, what they fail to see is the power of the people sooner rather than later when they continue to withhold news from the public that the public in turn will withhold their money for the newspapers and tell me thin who gets hurt the most.

  29. Thewhiterabbit Avatar
    Thewhiterabbit

    ABC is trying very diligently to get to terms with the terms that Government should have put together and disseminated in the first place. My take on it is that ABC is correct, that saved time does equal money (assuming that people are actually engaged in productive work). Too many Barbadians simply refuse to understand or admit that times have changed. We now have three times as many cars as fifteen years ago. They won’t go away and they take up space on the roads. They are the product of an expanding economy that takes in more of the population. We are drowning in our own success! Flyovers are definitely not “Bajan”, but only because we didn’t have any before, just like anything else that is new cannot by definition be “Bajan”. Flyovers are definitely needed for all the reasons adduced by ABC, or we can all just wallow in our “Bajan-ness” as we poke along at 1 or 2 mph in the molasses of our current traffic problem. They won’t solve all traffic problems, but they are an important part of the overall solution.

    Here is another solution to the traffic problem. Get rid of the 11-Plus exam. Instead of everybody trying to push their children into “good” schools, just make every child go to the nearest school. End of at least 1/3 of all traffic on the road. Saves the cost of administering and marking the 11-Plus. In short order the parents of the “better” students in the local schools will force the local school to become credible. No more need for folks in St. Lucy to carry their kids to Christ Church for secondary school, and vice versa. OK, it’s not “Bajan”, its an egalitarian idea from the US and Canada. It’s not British with the implication of social hierarchy that prevails in the current “Bajan” system, but it is cheaper in the long run, and would definitely cut down on traffic. I certainly hope that Government is, indeed, monitoring this email, maybe they’d soon discover that it was their idea and we’d see some forward progress on getting rid of class hierarchy and traffic. Who would have thought it would be possible to conflate those two notions?!?!?

  30. ABC Avatar
    ABC

    I concede on those points David as I always have – the project has been poorly executed and the blogs have served their purpose very well of getting this message out.

    As unbalanced as the newspapers have been I would suggest that the blogs are equally unbalanced in the opposite direction. Perhaps this is good as some sort of overall balance is acheived. But how many times can people flog the same dead horse?

    I was simply hoping at least for one reasoned comment from someone on the end result.

  31. ABC Avatar
    ABC

    well reasoned white rabbit thank you – I can now go home, fortunately not along the highway….

  32. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    Come back a minute ABC

    Look, NO ONE EVER said that there should be no highway project. No one ever argued that we should NOT look at flyovers

    The problems are these:

    *You do not build a 300 Million Dollar project WITHOUT having PLANS
    * You do NOT award 300 million dollar contracts without competitive bidding (BECAUSE THE LAWS SAY SO) not to mention common sense.
    * You do not award contracts to KNOWN CROOKS who have NO previous experience or expertise in the work.
    *You do not commence work BEFORE doing environmental impact studies
    *You do not change the scope of the project ‘wily nily’ without proper studies and cost analysis
    *You should NEVER be in a position to say ‘we have committed Barbados to it… but we don’t know what the costs is…’

    Now stop talking about traffic improvements and flow rates – that is NOT the issue.
    Apart from that you seem like a sensible person

    don’t take the attacks personally – everybody stressed…

  33. David Avatar
    David

    ABC~let us differ on the flogging a dead horse bit.

    There is a lot of work to do as sensitizing Barbadians go about how government operates and has operated. For too long we have demonstrated our gullibility by accepting whatever we have been fed. We are sorry ABC but the 3S project will be examined by BU from all angles. Did you say that the traditional media has been on the other extreme form the blogs? You are correct and must be aware that when there is a vacuum it will be filled by someone. That’s what the blogs (BU/BFP) have been doing – filling a big vacuum.

  34. Frankology Avatar
    Frankology

    I ain’t got a clue about all your figures. I am a normal Bajan that can look and analyse things based on realistic or absurb. I don’t have to be an economist or an engineer to see we are wasting monies on the flyover. Your calculation seems to be based on someone who owns a car. What about the commuter who have to take a bus from Sam Lords Castle and working down the Harbour Road. He have to be in traffic from Maxwell Road until he reach Bridgetown. He then have to walk from the bus stand to the Harbour Road, or catch a bus from the Lower Green or maybe, he might be lucky to get a drop to the Harbour Road. Will your equation still apply. I must say I admire your scientific skills and the way you are trying to reason. Commenters of your caliber do bring a respectable image to the post instead of those who are only able to get over a point by cussing and personal attacks. Keep it up! By the way which part of the letters ABC are you?

    You mentioned of Gardiner Expressway in Toronto, but why did you not enlightened Barbadians of chunk of concrete falling off the highway on three different occasions since 1999 and damaging vehicles. Yes there are condos but not 5 or ten feet from the condos. Who you think you are fooling.

  35. YUM YUM I like it! Avatar
    YUM YUM I like it!

    thewhiterabbit

    Brilliant!

    Love it!

  36. Waterboy Avatar
    Waterboy

    David , you said “We should not be having this discussion because an EIA has not been done to date”

    However the postponement notice in the press says The meeting is “to discuss the proposed construction of Overpasses on the ABC Highway.”

    Snip

    “These meetings are a requirement of theTown and Country Planning Department as part of the Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) that was conducted in 2006.”

    So it seems an EIA was done at least according to the notice. Am I missing soemthing or getting mixed up? The notice says the EIA can be viewed at

    TCPD – The Garrison
    Samuel Jackman Polytechnic
    Govt. Office Complex Warrens
    Hothersal Trading, Hothersal
    Holetown Library, Holetown

    Has anyone seen the EIA. I am told that usually the EIA goes to the Government regulatory agencies for comment and recommendations and the responses then form part of the EIA. It is these responses by professionals in various Government regulatory departments and other parties that are usually very interesting. They can form the basis of questions to be asked at the Town Hall meeting.

  37. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    …and let me interpret the meaning of ‘true bajan’ for you ABC..

    ..it is the ability to be optimistic even when being p*s*ed on. (“well at least it keeps us cool…and who knows what benefits may be hidden in the urine..”)

    ..it is the ability to continue smiling when you have been robbed of your property… for the 158th time.

    …It is the willingness to give the benefit of any doubt to any person who is not like the majority of us – from “where-ever” and with “what-ever” criminal charges in their background.

    ..and the knack to see every possible fault that could possible affect, now or in the future, any one of us that dares to succeed (Rhyanna?) or who complains about being urinated on (me?)..

  38. Frankology Avatar
    Frankology

    Hello Waterboy, your statement regarding an “Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) that was conducted in 2006.” was really for the road widening aspect of the highway that should have been out in the public domain since 2005 and presented to us two weeks ago. There is nothing tangible regarding any assessment or the Impact it will have on residence, pedestrians, business places. It don’t even conclude the type of overpass for pedestrians and the locations. After reading the hastily submitted papers, I can tell you we need lots more answers. That’s why I presume the meeting was canceled so that they can have a headway with the placement of bases for the highway, that is why the roads close to the flyovers are not paved.

  39. Waterboy Avatar
    Waterboy

    Frankology, ok so if I understand you correctly:

    1)The EIA done in 2006 and mentioned in the notice was for the road widening and not the overpasses.

    2) So although the notice says that the meeting is “to discuss the proposed construction of Overpasses on the ABC Highway.” There is actually no EIA in the public domain for the Overpasses.

    3) Have you read the EIA that they say is at one of the 5 locations?

  40. Frankology Avatar
    Frankology

    The EIA is so weak in presentation that it was discussing the noise impact on residents and they state that the house to the east of the highway will have the most noise and emissions from vehicles. The houses to the west would have the greater impact on noise and emission since we are closer, noise, and emission travel down wind. What I will say that the document is a poor excuse with many repetitions. No wonder the BTP refuse to accept it in its present state

  41. mosquito Avatar
    mosquito

    ‘I ain’t got a clue about all your figures. I am a normal Bajan that can look and analyse things based on realistic or absurb. I don’t have to be an economist or an engineer to see we are wasting monies on the flyover’

    In short you havent the faintest idea of what you are talking about. Try taking ABCs advice

    ‘You see Frankology – using logic to frame an argument makes for a more logical and sound argument. It’s certainly much better than mouthing off with unsubstantiated claims – whether or not they may be correct they are still not supported by relevant information.’

  42. Straight talk Avatar
    Straight talk

    mosquito or whatever name you’re assuming today:

    Yes or no.

    Have the flyovers been ordered?

  43. Avatar
    Anonymous

    Have any of your commenters seen the working drawings for the ABC expansion project, especially those related to the flyovers? If so they will know that the flyovers allow traffic already on the ABC to pass over (“flyover”) the roundabouts and the junction at Upton. The traffic crossing the ABC has to use the roundabouts. A visit to the junctions at Jackson/Green Hill and Waterford/Hothersal at peak periods (especially between 4:00 pm and 5:30 pm will reveal that it takes an exceeesively long time to cross these junctions. This traffic is not impeded by that along the ABC as this traffic had difficulty getting on to the roundabout in the first place. The traffic traversing Green Hill/Jackson and Waterford/Hothersal is impeded by the sheer volume of traffic entering and exiting from these roads. Flyovers will not improve thsi flow significantly. While the need to widen the highway cannot be seriuosly questioned and the removal of right turns on and off the highway is long overdue it has not been demonstrated that flyovers as presently designed is the best solution for the junctions. Another possibility is the removal of the roundabouts (a low volume solution for intersections) and installation of signalised, syncronised intersections. The signals could be remotely monitored and adjusted as warranted. This would remove the need for exhaustive EIA’s for elevated strutures, and the extensive geological studies for these structures. It would also allow traffic in all directions to have equal access to the junctions. The cost would also be considerably less than that of the flyovers (presently in the region of 83 million US). It is not too late to put a hold on the flyovers and consider all the possibilities from an engineering, social and economic perspective. Barbados could only but benefit from such an exercise.

  44. David Avatar
    David

    Interesting stuff anonymous. What should be interesting is the data which was collected and used to make, we hope, the final decision. The data would have shown the traffic patterns over a period of time. We must give Cheryl Bennett-Inniss and her team the benefit of the doubt?

  45. Waterboy Avatar
    Waterboy

    See report from Nation Newspaper below and link:

    ‘Flyovers won’t be safe’
    Published on: 12/5/05.

    A LOCAL civil and mechanical engineer has cautioned that the Adams-Barrow-Cummings (ABC) Highway does not have enough distance between its roundabouts for flyovers to be used safely.

    David Lashley, who has over 40 years’ experience in engineering, told the audience at last Wednesday’s Barbados Chamber of Commerce and Industry breakfast seminar that flyovers would each have to be at least 650 metres long in order to accommodate our 80-kilometre-per-hour speed limit.

    Then, he added, there had to be “an absolute minimum” of 450 metres between flyovers, in order to allow for “weaving” between lanes when accessing and exiting them.

    However, pointed out the chairman and managing director of DLN Consultants Inc, there were few places along the ABC highway where roundabouts had more than a kilometre of distance between them in a straight line.

    “You would see that if we take these sections, the approximate length of the flyover in the implementation between Sir Garry Sobers and the Emancipation Statue . . . the distance between the bottom of one flyover to the [bottom of the] other is much too short for adequate weaving distance; the safety provisions are certainly not ones that would be encouraged,” he said, illustrating his point with a slide projection.

    Lashley added that while the distance between the Emancipation Statue (“Bussa”) and Norman Niles roundabouts was adequate at 1.23 kilometres in length, it was not an “ideal option” because the road curved.

    However, he pointed out that the 2.72 kilometre distance between the Norman Niles roundabout and the Belle Junction, and the distance from there to the Clyde Walcott roundabout, were adequate.

    Lashley, whose firm was involved in the design and construction of the ABC highway, said flyovers would not result in a “true four-lane highway”.

    Instead, he said, what would result with the flyovers would be two lanes above and two “virtually localised lanes between roundabouts” below – which would be a serious constraint to future development of the ABC, would result in speed limit reductions, and compromise safety.

    http://www.nationnews.com/story/332046728583174.php

    I understand from someone at the Chamber’s Breakfast meeting that Mr. Lashley’s presentation was well presented and and he received a rousing applause from the audience.
    Mr. Lashley dealt with the wider traffic issues and traffic management.

    The 3S presenter focused on the Flyovrers and let us just say him and and his presentation were not very well received.

    My friend said the the local engineer blew 3S out of the water and made him proud to be a Barbadian. We have the expertise right here to deal with the so called traffic problem which is t many faceted and flyovers are no panacea.

    But I guess the powers that be know why they went for a company from far and away with no road or flyover engineering or building experience.

  46. Frankology Avatar
    Frankology

    Thanks Anonymous. Just what I have been preaching for months, but Mosquito and ABC are too blind to see. It don’t take an engineer to see an ill-conceived project. I am not against the road widening aspect, I am against the rationale of flyovers. By the way since both of you are bringing statistics that only the Government would have in their domain. Answer this question. Are you associated with any of these entities…3S Barbados SRL, CO Williams or Rayside Construction or maybe, you might be one of the consultants that recommend 3S Barbados SRL, thus your loyalty to the project. Just checking

  47. Avatar
    Anonymous

    Have no fear. Flyovers will not be built in Barbados, at least not as part of the current project.

  48. Frankology Avatar
    Frankology

    Protect us from these Flyovers until all studies are put in the public domain.

    Whereas an Impact and Environmental study should have been submitted before the start of the Project and whereas members of the BAPE and the BEC state that we do not need flyovers and whereas you cannot proceed to build without an estimate or quotation and whereas certain parts of the highway reflect a disaster zone with no lighting at night and whereas we are taking our hard-earned taxpayers money and putting it in the hands of a contractor in-training and whereas important information from an international engineering firm has doubts about the decaying of our limestone and the area is a water table with gullies. Be it resolved that Government should do the right thing and postpone the erection of these Flyovers. I will not write about the flyovers until we have answers.

  49. Frankology Avatar
    Frankology

    I am awaiting the answers regarding the EIA and the report from the 3S contracted engineer?

  50. David Avatar
    David

    Al Gilkes who heads the PR firm which represents 3S Barbados in Barbados publicly admitted in the Sunday Sun that he makes it his business to monitor the bajan blogs. If he does, and we have no reason to doubt him, it means that he would be aware that the public has some concerns. As a good PR man he should want to respond to the public concerns by tabling some facts to clear up some of these matters, e.g. provide the April 2006 drawings of the project for the public to see.

    Instead all we have had is silence from Mr. Gilkes!

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