Submitted by Roland R Clarke PhD (UPenn 95), Caribbean Energy Consultant, Member of the Private Financing Advisory Network (PFAN), Barbados – www.linkedin.com/in/rolandclarke
A solution is only required when there is a problem for resolution. It seems to me that the kernel “problem” in Barbados’ governance arrangements at this time, is the failure of the President to act with timeliness in using the power bestowed to that office under the current Constitution. For me, this is not a problem per sec, but rather a potential lost opportunity.
In order to resolve that particular “problem”, all that needs to happen is that:
(a) The President should reach out to those who are known to be in opposition to the Government within the context of our recent national general elections; or
(b) Politically active “individuals” from the known non-government political parties could/should offer themselves to the President to serve as Opposition Senators. This notwithstanding that any “qualified person” can offer themselves to the President irrespective of party affiliation or otherwise; AND
(c) The President shall use her best judgement to make the final decision and selection of two Opposition Senators.
One more thing, the Prime Minister (PM) must select one more “qualified” individual to be a Government Senator. The notion of “keeping a seat” for an unqualified individual is untenable. That problem could easily be fixed after the fact. It is also recognised that not all qualified individuals may be available right away to take the oath of office and sit in the Senate. The key is for the PM to make the selection NOW.
Once the Parliament is fully “constituted” as per the argument of at least one constitutional lawyer of national repute, then any and all constitutional changes could be properly laid before the Senate AFTER the fact.
In sum, the current impasse is artificially and prematurely created. It only serves to potentially lay bare an intent to insert “political parties” into the Constitution of Barbados for the first time at least since 1966. So far, I have not heard any objections from any political party (as a corporate person in its own right) to the proposed change to the Constitution regarding the insertion of a role for political parties. The silence of the political parties speaks volumes.
Clearly, the solution has predated the problem!
I assert that the premature creation of the problem above also lays bare the potential for a qualified citizen and resident of Barbados to seek leave of the President to bring a Constitutional motion against the President, if such a motion cannot be brought immediately and directly before the High Court of Barbados. Surely all concerned citizens and residents of Barbados would wish for the most vaunted governance institutions of Barbados to be protected at all times. We must protect the King of our National Chest Board, should we not?
The constitutional basis for my analysis above is given in alphabetical listing as follows:
A. Choosing the Leader of the Opposition in the Lower House of Barbados:
Section 74(2) of the Barbados Constitution states in part:
“(2) Whenever the Governor-General has occasion to appoint a Leader of the Opposition he shall appoint the member of the House of Assembly who, in his judgment, is best able to command the support of a majority of those members who do not support the Government, or if there is no such person, the member of that House who, in his judgment, commands the support of the largest single group of such members who are prepared to support one leader:
Provided that this subsection shall have effect in relation to any period between a dissolution of Parliament and the day on which the next election of members of the House of Assembly is held as if Parliament had not been dissolved…” etc..
B. Two Senators to be Appointed by the Leader of the Opposition. I took the liberty of pre-supposing that these two Senators would be “in opposition” to the Government. However, the Constitution is silent on my supposition. See
Section 36 of the Barbados Constitution states:
“36. (1) The Senate shall consist of twenty-one persons who, being qualified for appointment as Senators in accordance with the provisions of this Constitution, have been so appointed in accordance with the provisions of this section.
(2) Twelve Senators shall be appointed by the Governor-General, acting in accordance with the advice of the Prime Minister, by instrument under the Public Seal.
(3) Two Senators shall be appointed by the Governor-General, acting in accordance with the advice of the Leader of the Opposition, by instrument under the Public Seal.
(4) Seven Senators shall be appointed by the Governor-General, acting in his discretion, by instrument under the Public Seal, to represent religious, economic or social interests or such other interests as the Governor-General considers ought to be represented:
Provided that before appointing any person under this subsection the Governor-General shall consult such persons as, in his discretion, he considers can speak for those interests and ought to be consulted.”
C. The two Houses of Parliament “may” meet at the time for a limited purpose at the time of writing this article.
Section 50(1) of the Barbados Constitution states:
“50. (1) Subject to the provisions of this Constitution, each House may regulate its own procedure and for this purpose may make Standing Orders.
(2) Each House may act notwithstanding any vacancy in its membership and the presence or participation of any person not entitled to be present at or to participate in the proceedings of the House shall not invalidate those proceedings.”
D. The issue of a quorum is only relevant during the “sitting” of the Senate. It seems to me that a “sitting” can only occur after the initial establishment of the Senate. See –
Section (52) of the Barbados Constitution states:
52. (1) If at any time during a sitting of the Senate objection is taken by a member that there is not a quorum present and, after such interval as may be prescribed by the Standing Orders of the Senate, the person presiding ascertains that there is still not a quorum present, he shall thereupon adjourn the Senate.
(2) For the purposes of this section a quorum of the Senate shall consist of eight Senators besides the person presiding.
E. The President is “required” to act in lieu of the Leader of the Opposition, “under the current circumstances in Barbados” at the time of writing this article (at least in my opinion given the use of the word “shall” below).
Section 75 of the Barbados Constitution states:
“75. During any period in which there is a vacancy in the office of Leader of the Opposition by reason of the fact that no Leader of opposition. person is both qualified in accordance with this Constitution for, and willing to accept, appointment to that office, the Governor-General shall-
(a) act in his discretion in the exercise of any function in respect of which it is provided in this Constitution that the Governor-General shall act in accordance with the advice of the Leader of the Opposition; and
(b) act on the recommendation of the Prime Minister in the exercise of any function in respect of which it is provided in this Constitution that the Governor-General shall act on the recommendation of the Prime Minister after consultation with the Leader of the Opposition.”
Reference: Do note that the quotes above are taken from the full text version of the Barbados Constitution, posted on the web site of the Organisation of American States (OAS). Since the posting of this full text document, the Barbados Parliament has recently documented thirty-six (36) instances of constitutional amendments in a piecemeal fashion on their website. My current understanding is that the thirty-six (36) documents speak to amendments having to do with the recent transition to republic status by Barbados. See the full text version of the Barbados Constitution at – https://www.oas.org/dil/the_constitution_of_barbados.pdf
My two bits,
The offer was made for DLP to select the 2 seats for opposition representatives
and it is the President’s role to either accept or reject the 2 nominations if forthcoming
An amendment clause to the Constitution should be made for cases when Opposition are obliterated which seems to happen on the regular
The following text was posted on the To the Courts! thread
>People should form an understanding of the intent of dusty old constitution which states
Our economy is down. Many Aborigines prefer to feed themselves on food stamps from the business community rather than through their own labour.
And what are our academics doing in the ivory tower? They discuss some detail of a long outdated constitution.
Time for our Supreme Leader to copy the successful model of Guyana: i.e. currency reform 1:200, 12 hours of work per day and search for commodities in the ocean.
We have now had more than half a century of rotten tropical socialism. Enough is enough.
What an Embarrassment
Barbados being called a Republic in Nov.
Three months later the govt of the day is embroiled in a Constitutional malaise
What a frigging embarrassment
Can’t wait to see this thing headed for the CCJ and Gregory Nicholls tell his version and interpretation of the word vacany
The Supreme Leader all over the place
She wants to copy the Guyana Model
The USA model
The Chinese Model
No wonder she so frigging mixed up
“Three months later the govt of the day is embroiled in a Constitutional malaise”
“Evidence of a Solution Seeking a Problem in the Current Governance Arrangements of Barbados!”
The title above is worded clumsily as any problem solver worth his daily wage will tell you
there are no problems
they are challenges
that need solutions
You and your DLP are clearly part of the problem and not the solution to the Republic of Barbados
and we will not tolerate to stay and listen in this Court if they disrespect the Republic of Barbados
this great nation
Animal House – Deltas on Trial
@angela coxFebruary 14, 2022 6:21 AM
Our Supreme Leader has developed a great plan, she will soon reveal it to the faithful.
The turnaround of Barbados economy and society will require more than leadership from the political directorate. This is the shortcoming, we have become so polarized a society that being collaborative approaches are way down the preferred list of options.
History Mystery Prophecy
Property Assets in Global Capitalism System Formation.
Barbados is the mouth of slave trade that fed the belly of the beast in Babylon in the abomination of slavery.
It’s people represented the sperm and the eggs of the next 20 generation of slave babies born into bondage.
Homework assignment
Calculate / estimate the total number of slaves from the first to last generation in the heinous repugnant Atlantic Slave Trade.
Bonus marks will be given for showing steps in working out answers.
Roland is missing the point entirely.
Section 75 does not come into play until the Leader of the Opposition has been appointed and for some reason his/her office becomes vacant.
The GG/President cannot act for an office which was dissolved with Parliament in 2018.
Roland is assuming the continued existence of a formerly appointed Leader of the Opposition who disappeared from the scene.
The solution can only be to appoint a leader of the opposition who in the JUDGMENT of the GG/President, commands the support of a majority of those members of the House of Assembly who are in opposition to the Government.
30 – 0 means there is no opposition so it is constitutionally impossible to make such an appointment .
The solution can only be to return to the polls.
The GG/President needs to issue a new WRIT.
Section 74 preceded Section 75.
There is no vacancy, the Office needs to come into being.
@ John Bummy Knox
we have told you already
but will tell you again
you have never ever done any programming system development and design
and you obviously lack the logical skills to ever become a master of that trade
If the Constitution does not cater for the scenario that there is no Leader of Opposition
then the Constitution will need to be modified accordingly
it does not mean there cannot be a Parliament and Senate legislative bodies to discuss Government affairs
it does not mean the election is void
555dubstreetFebruary 14, 2022 10:54 AM
it does not mean the election is void
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The election has produced a nullity from which no Constitutional Parliament can be formed.
It is impossible to change the constitution if there can be no Parliament!!
QED
Machine Code, Assembly Language, Basic, Fortran, Algol, Lisp etc …. been there done that
@David, there was a remark in a news article which I think speaks nicely to this situation (with suitable name changes)…
So to paraphrase “And while it is not [her] prime intention, [Dame Sandra] would cause significant damage to [Bdos and her] prestige and inflict real-time consequences […] in an already tense […] election year” if she continues to wage war on our Constitution.
That remark which referred of course to Putin’s imminent act of war in Ukraine and its impact on Biden is apt because we will deeply feel the repercussions and suffer the consequences of any court decision to this war-like assault on our nation.
Of course we are advised that “Where the Governor-General is directed to exercise any function in accordance with the recommendation or advice of, or with the concurrence of, or after consultation with, any person or authority, the question whether he has so exercised that function shall not be enquired into in any court.”
So one wonders … does the Pres (GG) have immunity against her OMISSION to exercise her constitutional duty!
Of course the case is NOT lodged against her per se but it certainly has been brought BECAUSE of the issues caused by her misdeeds, not so.
An amazing conundrum … but we have a real war of pain and suffering to deal with soon… and that … makes this contrived constitutional war all the more impossible to understand: why has this been created!
@Dee Word
The matter is before the court regarding the legitimacy of the Senate. We must wait.
Integral to this matter is the proposed debate to inform a new Constitution. The blogmaster cannot wait to see if there is the same interest by some when that process gets on the way.
The President Failed to perform proper due diligence on thos issue
For which she should be criticized
Much of this problem lays at her feet
High heels and broad hats not going to cut or give her a cuhdear excuse on this issue
The President was given such authority of which she failed to execute on behalf of the country people and Constitution
Xxx
c) The President shall use her best judgement to make the final decision and selection of two Opposition Senators.
Of course we are advised that “Where the Governor-General is directed to exercise any function in accordance with the recommendation or advice of, or with the concurrence of, or after consultation with, any person or authority, the question whether he has so exercised that function shall not be enquired into in any court.”
So one wonders … does the Pres (GG) have immunity against her OMISSION to exercise her constitutional duty!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
OF COURSE NOT.
READ WHAT YOU WROTE AGAIN!!
The magic words ….. in accordance with the recommendation or advice of or with the concurrence of, or after consultation with, any person or authority …………..
If you go to Government House and she takes advice from you, since you have no standing to avise her,
SHE IS ON HER OWN AND OUT TO SEA, UP A CREEK IF HER ACTIONS ARE ENQUIRED INTO!!
SHE NEEDS THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION WHO IN HER JUDGEMENT COMMANDS THE SUPPORT OF THE MAJORITY OF THOSE IN OPPOSITION TO THE GOVERNMENT.
If she listens to him/her she is cool.
If not she is on her own.
…. psst … there ain’t no Leader of the Opposition and it has been impossible to find one since 2018.
Reverent Joe was no more a Leader of the Opposition than you or I.
She is on her own and needs to resign.
It is out of context but ….
30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
Reverent Joe was no Philip, but a wolf in sheep’s clothing sent to misdirect the GG.
.. and she followed him!!
“Machine Code, Assembly Language, Basic, Fortran, Algol, Lisp etc …. been there done that”
of course you haven’t
there is a difference between studying computer projects at school
and working in a jobbie building real systems for real processing
you would know all systems need updating constantly as they are shite
“The election has produced a nullity from which no Constitutional Parliament can be formed.
It is impossible to change the constitution if there can be no Parliament!!”
thankfully you are an inconsequential nobody who has no say in the matter
the country is being run by professionals who are paid to make the big calls
People been calling Reverend Joe a Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing for a while!!
They even claim Ms. Mockley had spotted it also!!
Check and see.
Reverent Joe has exposed the GG/President to having a court enquire into her conduct from 2018.
https://m.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=246784233190&story_fbid=10157952343913191
“Integral to this matter is the proposed debate to inform a new Constitution. The blogmaster cannot wait to see if there is the same interest by some when that process gets on the way.”
the role and formation of the Senate needs to be redefined and redesigned
such as purpose is
O to prevent overreach by Government
O to suggest further improvements and amendments for legislation passed by lower house
O to reject faulty legislation
O to remain non-partisan and represent the needs of all the people of Barbados
Current method of allocation and weighting of seats should be reviewed
PM 12/21 57.1%
President 7/21 33.3%
LoO 2/21 9.52%
should senators be elected or will this cause issues like dysfunctional US political games blocking laws for political purposes
JohnFebruary 14, 2022 12:06 PM
.. and she followed him!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Like Eve and the serpent.
@AC
“High heels and broad hats not going to cut or give her a cuhdear excuse on this issue”
I see that you failed to mention scarves. Perhaps the only time that folks refer to how men’s dress is when they are called ’empty suits’
@Donna
It appears that sisterhood can also be tough on women.
TronFebruary 14, 2022 7:42 AM
@angela coxFebruary 14, 2022 6:21 AM
Our Supreme Leader has developed a great plan, she will soon reveal it to the faithful.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Resign and get out of Doge!!
TheO,
Yup! Some women are stupid, after all, and follow men’s lead like good little girls.
P.S. To be fair Ha Ha did obsess about the CMO’s “unprofessional” open necked shirt and gold chain.
Seriously though, men and woman can be equally stupid. Men and women can be equally smart. All I ask is that we don’t attempt to force a woman- into a man’s fantasy box.
Just let us BE! Stop telling us who we should be and how we should be, where we do and do not belong and what we are and are not capable of doing and being.
The only basis for that is religion that nobody can actual prove.
DonnaFebruary 14, 2022 3:55 PM
Seriously though, men and woman can be equally stupid. Men and women can be equally smart. All I ask is that we don’t attempt to force a woman- into a man’s fantasy box.
Just let us BE! Stop telling us who we should be and how we should be, where we do and do not belong and what we are and are not capable of doing and being.
The only basis for that is religion that nobody can actual prove.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Billions have already proven it!!
She fcuked up.
Do the honorable thing and go.
Fat chance, Dumbo!
Now… as to your stupid suggestion that the DLP is waiting to pull some trigger.
How do you think the people of Barbados would react to shenanigans that allowed laws to be passed, policies put in place and actions to be taken, only to have them be reversed a, leading to much confusion and absolute chaos?
My guess would be that the people would be vex, vex, vex with the DLP. Because we voted for a BLP government and even if Mia made a mistake, we can forgive mistakes.
But DELIBERATELY DELAYED upending of government leading to chaos? THAT would not be forgiven.
I can hear the Bajan response, “Wuh he din know dah evuh since? Why he wait ’til now to do did heh?
HOWEVER….if the DLP operative wins this case and forestall later challenges and time wasting by others after the fact, THEN the DLP may recover a little credibility and good faith, having served the people by averting disaster down the road.
I would never hire you as a political consultant. For that you need EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE. You need to be able to anticipate how people would feel in certain situations.
It is not fit that you should sit here any longer. You have sat here too long for any good you have been doing lately … In the name of God go.“ – Oliver Cromwell to Members of Parliament,
Suppose another Reverend Joe arises among the 30 members of the House and turns up on the GG/President’s door step.
Suppose the GG/President uses her judgment and appoints him/her+ as the Leader of the Opposition.
Right now it is only the issue of the Senate that is before the court.
All someone needs to do should the situation arise is raise the issue in Court of the missing office of the Leader of the Opposition and the GG/President’s faulty judgment..
If the court rules in the someone’s favour, every thing done from 2018 by an unconstitutional Parliament is null, void and of no effect.
The only thing to do is for the 30 members of the House is to resign in shame.
The court and citizen Braithwaite are giving the 30 members of the House time to consider their options and take advice.
Most of the 30 are lawyers themselves and are quite capable of figuring it out for themselves.
After all, they probably advised Reverent Joe what to do last time coining a new term, “an absence of a presence.
Do they resign en masse or do they resign piece meal?
Time will tell and we shall see.
We have become so polarized as a people, never searching for compromise knowing that there can never be absolutes determined in every situation that arises. Even decisions handed down by the highest courts in the land include dissenting positions. However, when such occurs there is a the understanding that majority positions will rule. What does this tell us?
@John
Sometimes you go about too far
2018 to Jan 2022is history and cannot be undone. I don’t care what you court you go to.
The ‘Atherley solution: worked before and will work again. I have two simple notes:
A placeholder for KK
The Atherley solution
Then business as usual.
The 🐇hole is a black hole. It pulls you in.
Why should s person who ran for the first time in 2022 (and won) resign in shame?;
Explain.
Remember when ?
https://www.barbadosadvocate.com/news/blp-lead-national-march-disgust-against-present-administration
tongue between cheeks,
“I want to let you know that here in Guyana, led by myself as President, the cabinet and the people of this country, we admire greatly, your leadership. We believe strongly in your commitment to regional integration, and we will work with you every single day in our journey ahead together to ensure that the goals that you are setting can be realised and the people of this region can be uplifted to better heights.”
Wunna bout here worrying bout cornstiturion while PM MIA bathing in the adoration of de guyanese.
@ David who wrote ” We have become so polarized as a people “.
I am three score years and ten. For at least the last 60 years Barbados has been polarized.
No Hants.
The time has now come for all the disgruntled DLP supporters to take a leaf out the Trump play book and descend on the Parliament and claim their victory . Why not just do it ?
TheOGazertsFebruary 14, 2022 5:30 PM
The 🐇hole is a black hole. It pulls you in.
Why should s person who ran for the first time in 2022 (and won) resign in shame?;
Explain.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Once the Reverent Joe equivalent(s) come forward and the GG exercises her judgment to appoint a Leader of the opposition, the die is cast and there is something which can prompt a complaint to a court..
Right now, Citizen Braithwaite only has the 18 vs 21 senators to complain about which he has done.
That is all.
If the GG exercises her judgment and appoints a Leader of the Opposition from the 30, then Citizen Braithwaite or someone else can ask the court to enquire into the conduct of the GG/President.
If the court agrees with him or whoever else brings the constitutional motion then the appointment will be ruled null, void and of no effect and elections will have to be called.
The GG/President then finds herself in ducks guts as do the 30 who no doubt will want to try again,
If the GG wrongly exercised her judgment in 2022 then she also exercised it wrongly in 2018 and every thing done in Parliament’s name since then is null void and of no effect.
All 30 plus the GG would have to resign in shame.
The most sensible thing, perhaps the cleanest thing, is for the GG/President to issue a new Writ for elections to get around the nullity of 30 – 0 while every one is waiting on the Court.
The Court can then say the matter has been rendered moot and retreat into the background, nothing more will be said unless we get another nullity..
Note well, the GG/President HAS NOT appointed two opposition senators so no grounds for complaint on that one.
Citizen Braithwaite is daring her to do it!!
All she and the Court have to hope for is that no Citizen files a complaint about the application of her judgment in 2018.
spikesFebruary 14, 2022 7:01 PM
The time has now come for all the disgruntled DLP supporters to take a leaf out the Trump play book and descend on the Parliament and claim their victory . Why not just do it ?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Can’t without violating the constitution!!
You have to admit they have so far read it like a book.
The BLP by using the Reverend Joe ruse have put themselves and the GG/President between a rock and a hard place.
The two of them have to play ball unless there is some way of getting a Leader of the Opposition from the 30 – 0 nullity.
The DLP just has to watch and wait!!
John is having a wet dream over his fantasies
Leader of Opposition and Shadow cabinets are impotent positions in the Parliamentary number games at best of times.
Rarely do they win votes when they need Government party MP’s to join them in a whipping system ignoring the party whip instructions with possibility of being expelled from the party. They may win win there are free votes but this is used for uncontroversial or inconsequential parliamentary votes.
They may win when..
Bajans love the theatrics of the Parliament shows with long rambling fancy speakers articulating with flowery language, but with 30-0 mandate Government can fast-track plethora of changes and laws with auto-verification and auto-authorisation put in place for in straight-thru processing of work queues.
@ John
Before you get totally carried away in your thesis, are you not making one grave error….?
Since there is no such animal as an ‘opposition party’ in the Law. There are just thirty ‘members’ in Parliament.
ANY majority combination of these thirty who assure the President that they support a single leader BECOMES the ‘government’.
Likewise, ANY minority combination of these thirty who are able to assure the President that they support a single person and represent the second largest group among the thirty …BECOMES THE OPPOSITION LEADER.
The petty problem can therefore be solved tonight – if another Bishop arises … no ‘pawns’ are even really needed.
Your inference that the ‘opposition’ must represent some OFFICIAL ‘opponents’ of the majority is founded in folklore and tradition, but not in Law. We all know that ALL these people are ALL the same – with the COMMON goal of robbing us BB’s blind.
This also means that the President is ‘safe’ with respect to the “Bishop Joe gambit”, does it not…?
In any case , Bishop Joe was the best LOTO we have had in decades…..
One wonders if the ‘elections’ were not timed to stop certain revelations ongoing in the PAC….?
Bush TeaFebruary 14, 2022 8:39 PM
@ John
Before you get totally carried away in your thesis, are you not making one grave error….?
Since there is no such animal as an ‘opposition party’ in the Law. There are just thirty ‘members’ in Parliament.
ANY majority combination of these thirty who assure the President that they support a single leader BECOMES the ‘government’.
Likewise, ANY minority combination of these thirty who are able to assure the President that they support a single person and represent the second largest group among the thirty …BECOMES THE OPPOSITION LEADER.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There are not 30 members of Parliament, there are 30 members of the House of Assembly who DO NOT want to divide into a Government and Opposition.
Everybody knows that, including the GG because they said so on the various platforms.
Any division is purely to achieve one object and it isn;’t to create an opposition.
All 30 incriminate themselves once they try something like that.
However, anything is possible.
But once the deed is done it can be challenged in court and be tested before a judge or judges!!!
The GG has to use her judgment.
There will be plenty recordings from the campaign showing all 30 vigorously supporting the programs of one group, not a word of dissent and all will be on record belittling the opposition!!
That record would be evidence in any Court case
The question comes back to the GG like it did with Reverent Joe.
Can she hold her nose and appoint a Leader of the opposition knowing what everybody knows all the evidence shows?
That same evidence may be used in a court of law and the Court may not see it like she does.
She did it with Reverent Joe and after swearing him in he went in her front house and said on National TV he supported the programs of the BLP, that is, the Government!!
How can a person occupying a post which attracts over $872,000 be so cavalier with her judgment?
Listen to Reverent Joe from 2018 after the swearing in below!!
It is priceless, you have to laugh.
There is no way a court of law or any reasonable person could watch his performance and believe he was the Leader of the Opposition.
Whosoever of the 30 decides to do a Reverent Joe knows they will be on national TV to explain why and having watched Reverend Joe they may not want that scrutiny!!
Seems I have read this ‘solution’ before.
CF is good choice. Ask the D’s to pick one. And bring back Rawdon until the age changes are done. He only served 3.5yrs after the last Constitutional change. No need for LoO til one crosses the floor.
Here is some evidence any reasonable person could use in determining if a division was for real!!
Anyway, the constitution says the GG/President has 90 days to issue a Writ for new elections.
If the result is a nullity and she has to issue a second writ, time is tight.
I reckon she has 41 days and counting!!
… assuming the first writ is ignored.
The court has to rule and any appeals will need to be heard.
John
The reality is that human beings reserve the right to CHANGE THEIR MINDS, and the President is not able to ‘ascribe motives’ in the same way that Bushie can.
If Ralph Thorne decided tomorrow to drive up to government house and whisper a few words … How would the President be able to dispute his sincerity?
Wuh Boss, who believes ANYTHING that politicians say anyway..? (OH WAIT!!! …Bajans do …LOL)
Your otherwise logical postulation loses validity when confronted with the frailties of human predictability – especially politicians. You seem to think that there is some kind o ‘honor’ among the gang…. Bushie, – not so much.
Same way that 16 of Mia’s crowd could have been planning to ‘rearrange some furniture’ before elections, two or three could call in the ‘movers’ tomorrow … or indeed anytime the they are so minded.
Schools must have a Head Boy and a Head Girl.
In an all boys school one boy will need to change sex.
If Mia was a man she would be called a spectacular leader for 2 x 30 wins.
She should be made an honorary man.
The reality is one of leadership with deceptive motives
That is the reality all must face for the next five years
Another reality is a country so divided unable to see forest for the trees
Yesterday the business community was falling over each other on business uptake
Meanwhile thousands of Bajan households in isolation because of the continuing spread of Covid and govt and media sending out false narratives in pretentious fashion
Opposition propagandists like Angela Cox are bitter losers in life spreading their shit for others to clean up and then moaning about all the shit everywhere.
She is no good
Bad Mind
Grudgeful
& Envious
Begone Satan
The Power of Christ Compels YOU
Preamble: in the 2022 election no opposition won anything not even a button blah blah blah
This confounded Bajan talking heads on the Bu who do not think very deeply
John Knox sabotaged rationality again to lead the people up the garden path
Hear Ye Hear Ye Hear Ye
The best thinking mind on BU has now resolved the conundrum for the dumb with the following solution for implementation forthwith
When it comes to heads
2 out of 3 ain’t bad
We don’t need another hero
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVPq-_t-ANw
Do you know Citizen Brathwaite?
I have since the age of six. He ain’t that devious!
Lord have mercy! The crap that these bright boys come up with!
Who are these people that they speak about?
Bush TeaFebruary 14, 2022 10:42 PM
If Ralph Thorne decided tomorrow to drive up to government house and whisper a few words … How would the President be able to dispute his sincerity?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This is the same Ralph Thorne who already crossed the floor when it used to be in existence without falling in the cellar?
He is a lawyer.
He knows once he acts his deeds are open to scrutiny by any citizen in a court of law.
He may be persuaded to adopt the your esoteric idea and act but if he is hauled before the court there may be a more pragmatic approach.
So what happens if the court decides he has acted dishonestly?
“(2) (a) If circumstances such as are referred to in subsection (1) arise because a member is convicted of any criminal offence involving dishonesty, under sentence of death or imprisonment, adjudged to be of unsound mind, declared bankrupt or convicted or reported guilty of a corrupt or illegal practice at elections or of making a false declaration of qualification and if it is open to the member to appeal against the decision (either with the leave of a court or other authority or without such leave), he shall forthwith cease to perform his functions as a member but, subject to paragraph (b), he shall not vacate his seat until the expiration of a period of thirty days thereafter: Provided that the Speaker may, at the request of the member, from time to time extend that period for further periods of thirty days to enable the member to pursue an appeal against the decision, so, however, that extensions of time exceeding in the aggregate one hundred and fifty
days shall not be given without the approval, signified by resolution, of the House of Assembly.”
(b) If, on the determination of any appeal, such circumstances continue to exist and no further appeal is open to the member, or if, by reason of the expiration of any period for entering an appeal or notice thereof or the refusal of leave to appeal or for any other reason, it ceases to be open to the member to appeal, he shall forthwith vacate his seat.
(c) If at any time before the member vacates his seat such circumstances as aforesaid cease to exist, his seat shall not become vacant on the expiration of the period referred to in paragraph (a) and he may resume the performance of his functions as a member.”
Because no member has been hauled before the court on any of the above charges does not mean that someone won’t decide to test the constitution.
What never happened in a year could happen in a day.
Why take the risk?
For what, so Ms. Mockley can have a “constitutional” parliament despite the nullity any pragmatic adult would know requires another election?
“Because no member has been hauled before the court on any of the above charges does not mean that someone won’t decide to test the constitution.”
In theory you shall be inheriting large funds and can put your money where your mouth is and test your theory in a Court of Law
you claim to be an expert in Courts
and the Law Way like a Southern American Deputy Sheriff amongst the negroes who are profiled as menaces to society
Put up or shut up Son of Knox c/o Kingsland Estate
The crap that these bright boys come up with
I presume when you say bright you mean non-bright
boys is a generic term for 48% of the human population
you need to be specific to individual beings as they’re separate entities
you may inadvertently offend every man in the whole world
I mean the bright boys of BU. They know who they are.
So who are the dimwits?
You know who they are and they do too!!
NOBODY HAS BEEN ABLE TO PROVE ANY RELIGION AND NOBODY HAS BEEN ABLE TO PROVE THE EXISTENCE OF GOD!
There are millions and millions!!
… all smarties!!
Lotta shite!
@ John
Those that know not, and know not that they know not….
The constitution does address this matter. There are provisions where the President can act in her own discretion to appoint the two senators in the absence of a leader of the opposition. There is no crisis -the President needs to act.
The President is a former senior Justice of the Court, probably with greater legal acumen than sitting Justice Cicely Chase. No disrespect to the good lady of course.
StalwartFebruary 15, 2022 2:45 PM
The constitution does address this matter. There are provisions where the President can act in her own discretion to appoint the two senators in the absence of a leader of the opposition. There is no crisis -the President needs to act.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There is no vacancy that would trigger 75.
There is an absence of a presence.
That’s why Reverent Joe stepped forward, not to fill a vacancy but to address the absence of a presence!!
Listen to him and learn.
That is what he was instructed to say last time by all the BLP lawyers.
The code in Section 74 needs to be executed before moving to Section 75.
We’ve been there done that.
Amazed people are wasting time with the senate.
The vacancy was created when the electorate in its wisdom and democratic right voted all the seats to a single party.
Yeah! And those that feel they know everything and everyone else of other faiths know nothing….
Lotta shite!
Donna
Perhaps “the bright boys of BU” are suggesting the January 18 elections should be ‘null and void’ because Barbadians coincidentally voted in such a manner that one political party won all the seats.
All the BLP parliamentarians should resign and ‘fresh elections’ be held until such time an Opposition is ‘elected.’
But, as you know, am tired, saw all of this unfolding years ago, so, yall on yuh own. Don’t have the time to warn you, spent almost a decade doing that already.
Wuhloss….
Imagine, John, a believer in Donald Trump, one who lies all day every day!
And you link yourself with him wrt knowing God!
Lotta shite!
Artax,
Nothing the bright boys predict ever comes to pass but… we must be so blind that we did not see when it happened.
We were promised a Kraken release up in Amurka and up to now we en get it!
But these are the bright boys of BU!
There seems to be a fine line between brightness and dullness!
Reminds me of Shilling’s March Monkey.
🎵March Monkey, it serve you quite right
For tellin’ uh lie for a stripe.
Up tuh now he en get it…..
Wuhlaus!
David
‘a vacancy is an unoccupied position or job.’
~~~~~~
In order therefore for a vacancy to exists, there must FIRST be a position or job CREATED that can then be ‘unoccupied’.
When the parliament is dissolved, those positions cease to exist – until RE-CREATED by the President for the new session.
The problem lies in the stipulated requirements for the CREATION of the new session that brings these positions into existence.
It is STIPULATED that a designated LOTO must perform some preliminary tasks.
no LOTO… means that these tasks cannot be performed.
…no performance means that no new session can be LEGALLY created, so any talk of ‘vacancies’ is premature.
it is a CATCH 22 situation.
This is John’s (valid) argument. However, where he errs, is that nothing really stops a few (or even one) from forming an ‘opposition’ grouping and ending the impasse…. but everyone frightened to end up like Joe on the outside of the pork barrel.
LOL … it is not like it is a serious institution anyway, the same way a school can divide their debate club into ‘proponents’ and ‘opponents’…
cause all they do is talk shiite …and then vote for whatever Mia instructs them to anyway.
@Bush Tea
And the contention is that the President has leeway in the turgidly scribed Constitution to act. What cannot be trivialized is that voters gave one party the the lower house. This exposed what some point to the lacuna . We cannot ignore that in a fair general election the people spoke. What ever issue has been created must be fixed.
Bush TeaFebruary 15, 2022 4:49 PM
David
‘a vacancy is an unoccupied position or job.’
~~~~~~
In order therefore for a vacancy to exists, there must FIRST be a position or job CREATED that can then be ‘unoccupied’.
When the parliament is dissolved, those positions cease to exist – until RE-CREATED by the President for the new session.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The actual 30 seats become vacant on dissolution of Parliament!!
The position of PM and Leader of the Opposition cease to exist until they are created after the elections by the President/GG.
Each is chosen by one of the two groups, the PM is chosen by the group who will form the government and the Leader of the Opposition by the group that will oppose the government.
The post of the Leader of the Opposition is officially created when the selected Leader of the Opposition appears before the GG/President and the person is officially appointed and sworn in by her.
Until that happens, it is impossible to fill a vacancy in a post that has not been created.
Here is what the Constitution says about the 30 seats in Section 45 – Tenure of the Seats of members of the House of Assembly.
(1) The seat of a member of the House of Assembly shall become vacant
a) upon the next dissolution of Parliament after he has been appointed;
b) … f).
So Reverent Joe when he appeared on the GG’s doorstep on June 1 2018, appeared as a Member of the House of Assembly claiming to have been chosen the Leader of the Opposition by the group who opposed the Government in the House of Assembly.
At that time Ms. Mockley had selected 29 ministers and in a gala fanfare on Bay Street on 27 May 2018 they had all been sworn in by the GG!!
The GG in her judgment decided to believe the Right Reverent Joseph Atherly when he made his appearance on 1 June 2018 that the Group in Parliament that opposed the Government had selected him as their leader.
Confirm the dates and you will see how exposed the GG is!!
She had just sworn in 29 cabinet ministers and would have known no such group could possibly have existed.
I don’t think she is going to believe it if any of the 10 non ministers now show up on her doorstep claiming to be the Leader of the Opposition.
She would be mad!!
Her neck is out already!!
Once bitten, twice shy!!
She has no choice but to issue a new Writ for elections and the clock may be running.
40 days left?
The BLP have checkmated themselves!!
I am sure the DLP cannot believe what is unfolding although I have an inkling they may helped it happen with their secret weapon, Froon.
By accident or design … who knows!!
This is a screw up of monumental proportions only possible with those at the highest pay grade.
Creation of a post comes before it can become vacant.
Section 74 comes before Section 75
May 27th comes before June 1st!!
The GG is on her own.
Whatever advice she took could only have been from the PM, the AG or the other 27 ministers all of whom swore an oath to advise her to the best of their ability.
However, in the matter of the choice of the Leader of the Opposition, all of the 29 ministers are irrelevant and their advice is not called for in the constitution.
She is required solely to use her judgment.
She is on her own and her conduct seems as though it can be enquired into by a court.
The evidence is readily available and pretty conclusive.
@David, your buddy @Bush Tea…. comments are totally inaccurate that “The problem lies in the stipulated requirements for the CREATION of the new session that brings these positions into existence.[…] It is STIPULATED that a designated LOTO must perform some preliminary tasks.” …. The remarks make no sense in simple reasonable reading of the constitution nor in any sense of the functional aspects of governance.
–How was Jamaica governed after Manley refused to contest the mid 80’s election that gave Seaga ALL 60 seats !
–Did Dr Mitchell in Grenada shutter his government or Parliament after he won ALL seat victories in 2013 and the following election cycle!
No need to go over again the facts which disprove these repeated illogical claims … Simply stated the folks who wrote the constitution did NOT confine us to an illegal govt nor did they even hint that governance could NOT proceed WITHOUT a LotO…
They could have if they so INTENDED ….but they sensibly gave the Pres AUTHORITY to act when there was no qualified LotO!
And moreover Jamaica and Grenada would never has been able to govern themselves if his and @John Fellow’s interpretation had ANY legal weight..
.. the conundrum catch-22 appears to be whether it’s a foreboding of early onset mental ‘vacancy’ or an absence of personal performance causing these crazy and wacky interpretations from these guys. Ah well, I hope they stay safe either way!
Were the President/GG to resign in shame, it would not be possible to replace her because if I read the amendment from last year right, it requires the PM and the Leader of the Opposition to act and of course we have no Leader of the Opposition.
To create the post of Leader of the Opposition of course requires the President/GG!
They really should have passed them by a person with experience implementing algorithms in hardware and software!!.
So she has to hang on, bite her lip and wade through.
She needs to issue the new writ.
… and she better not die or our goose is cooked.
Have you not heard? These are the bright boys of BU, the sages, the “maguffies” at whose feet we must sit to feast on the crumbs of knowledge our puny brains struggle to digest.
I wish I found it funny but it worries me so.
Dribbler…
Is Jamaica and Grenade subject to Barbados’ Constitution…? How is our problem related to your references?
John
The Constitution has a clear loophole – granted.
But you make a HUGE leap when you conclude that an action such as that made by the Bishop is somehow open to legal question.
Boss, a politician can decide to ‘cross the floor’ anytime that he or she wish to; or feel like; or can be enticed to.
What better time than when there is a vacant LOTO seat (and salary) waiting to be filled?
But perhaps you have a point.
How else can we explain the ongoing nonsense of the past three months of fiddling while Bridgetown burns….
Early onset senility! Worse than menopause!
@Mr BushTea I remain guided by your apparent more adept understanding of the processes and procedures of our neighbors and thus accept that your interpretations thereof are likely as astute as those you offer here re our beloved homeland!
However, from where I sit I would say that Jamaica and Grenada are definitely subject to similiar conditions as seen in the Barbados Constitution …. ipso facto our issues are absolutely related!
Again with no Constitution quotes or prolix, I cite the model of fact and reality: It is a FACT that most of the regional CONSTITUTIONS were prepared out of England by the Commonwealth Office… It is a fact that the language and directions were very similiar if not almost verbatim alike (apart from those like TnT) …. It is a fact the Jamaica and Grenada constitutions mirrored ours in keys areas like that re the LoO and that they both legally survived electoral results of 60-0 and 15-0!
If you want to say otherwise to validate your illogic then proceed apace.
Alas, with the incongruous behavior of our PM and President re this constitutional contrivance it is absolutely understandable that other scholarly Bajan choose to act incongruously also!
Stay safe, bro.
Here is Grenada
http://www.oas.org/juridico/PDFs/mesicic4_grd_const.pdf
They’ve been operating a Government which is unconstitutional for the longest while!!
66.-(1) There shall be a Leader of the Opposition who shall be Appointed by the Governor-General.
(2) Whenever there shall be occasion for the appointment of a Leader of the Opposition, the GovernorGeneral, acting in his own deliberate judgment, shall appoint the member of the House of Representatives
who appears to him to command the support of the largest number of members of the House in opposition
to the Government.
(3) The Leader of the Opposition shall vacate his office-
a. if for any reason other than a dissolution of Parliament he ceases to be a member of the
House of Representatives ;
b. if when the House of Representatives first meets after any dissolution of Parliament he is
not then a member of the House ;
c. if by virtue of the provisions of section 33(3) of this Constitution he is required to cease to
perform his functions as a member of the House of Representatives ; or
d. if he is removed from office under the provisions of subsection (4) of this section.
(3) The Leader of the Opposition shall vacate his office-
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I assume that no one has brought a constitutional motion in Grenada.
Notice the difference between the leader of the opposition and the office of the leader of the opposition.
Barbados the same
(3) The office of Leader of the Opposition shall become vacant-
Both are supposed to be Parliamentary Democracies and MUST or SHALL have an opposition.
I rest my case…. 😂 @Mr Bush Tea continue to have your wonderful chatter with the ‘ghosts of Alice’s Wonderland past and present’!
And you @John Fellow happy ghosting!
Here’s Grenada.
Sounds like something to which the Welcome Stamp can graduate!!
Is this how Grenada got rid of its opposition?
Here is Dominica’s constitution.
https://pdba.georgetown.edu/Constitutions/Dominica/constitution.pdf
Skerrit was smarter than Mitchell or Ms. Mockley.
He made sure the Opposition got 3 seats in the election!!
Searchable
https://www.constituteproject.org/constitution/Dominica_2014.pdf?lang=en
@BT
Read sec75. It explains vacant to mean when there in no one qualified.
If there is no one qualified, as per other sections, then there is no one to accept the role.
Such applies in a 30-0 election result.
All else is a #lottashite
@NO
David
This is an argument by Justice B for ‘what makes sense, given the intent of the legislation’ RATHER than about what is written in the existing law. Telling us that there are 5 different meanings of the word ‘SHALL’ is not particularly helpful.
Also if he wants to talk about ‘absurdity’ as an argument for making sound legal judgement, Bushie could refer him to a plethora of local High Court judgements that have become practically the norm – needing CCJ sanity to redress them.
Nobody is saying that the INTENT of the legislation is to frustrate the business of the state, but that the EFFECT of the incompetently written Law does EXACTLY that – and it makes the new Republic look bad….
It all begs the question – What was the point of creating a new republic and keeping all the OLD conditions?… even unchanged laws enacted BEFORE independence…
…and in any case, this is coming from one of the architects of our current ‘exemplary’ Legal system is it not…?
The BIG joke is that we have a recent precedent …AND a ‘solution’, so either we are saying that THAT fix was illegal in 2018, or we are deliberately shooting ourselves in the foot in 2022.
Don’t agree Bush Tea. In a very simple way he explains how interpreting laws must be done when there are ‘absurdities’ to navigate.
NorthernObserverFebruary 15, 2022 11:34 PM
@BT
Read sec75. It explains vacant to mean when there in no one qualified.
If there is no one qualified, as per other sections, then there is no one to accept the role.
Such applies in a 30-0 election result.
All else is a #lottashite
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Read the two other sections which define qualifications and disqualifications, 43 and 44!!
Applies to all 30 members, including the PM and Leader of the Opposition.
All that separates these two from the rest in their respective groups is that the groups to which they belong have determined who is to be their leader.
Until that is done the GG/President cannot appoint a leader of the opposition because there is no group in the House of Assembly in existence that can be imagined as sitting in opposition to the Government.
The underlying “qualification” if you could call it that for the leader of the opposition is that there must be a group in Parliament who sits in opposition who has selected him/her to be its leader.
No group = no Leader
Read 74(3) and you will see how the Office of the Leader of the Opposition becomes vacant after the GG has created it.
(3) The office of Leader of the Opposition shall become vacant-
(a) if, after an election of members of the House of Assembly following any dissolution of Parliament and before that
House first meets thereafter, he is informed by the Governor-General that the Governor-General is about to appoint another person as Leader of the Opposition;
(b) if he ceases to be a member of the House of Assembly for any reason other than a dissolution of Parliament; or
(c) if his appointment is revoked under the provisions of subsection (4).
(4) If, in the judgment of the Governor-General, the Leader of the Opposition no longer is able to command the support of
a majority of those members of the House of Assembly who do not support the Government, or, as the case may be, the
support of the largest single group of such members who are prepared to support one leader, the Governor-General may
revoke the appointment of the Leader of the Opposition.
Section 74 comes before Section 75 for a reason.
The GG has to create the post which she does solely by using her judgment.
In the case of Reverent Joe, that judgment was sadly lacking and she ate the apple.
This time around, no serpent is available to cause her to have to make a decision and lead her astray.
NO GROUP = NO LEADER