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Submitted by Tee White (article submitted to the Nation newspaper)

Dear Editor

I was shocked to read your article in the Nation of 18 June, which reported that Minister of Culture, John King, is opposed to ‘dumping Nelson’.

Mr King is, of course, right that everybody can form their own personal opinions about any issue, including that of racism. However, the problem is that as Minister of Culture, he represents the people of Barbados. How would it reflect on our country if in international meetings he is defending the maintenance of statues glorifying racists and mass murderers even as countries all over the world are removing these offensive objects from the public space?

Mr King says that he has been reading the cabinet papers from previous discussions of this matter but demonstrates a shocking lack of understanding of the issue. I will pass without comment his preposterous statement that removing symbols that glorify racism, such as Nelson’s statue, amounts to visiting the horrors of chattel slavery on others. He appears to think that taking a stand against racism amounts to excluding non-Africans from the history of Barbados. According to this logic, every Bajan of non-African descent supports anti-African racism and the glorification of its architects. This is a terrible insult to those Bajans of non-African descent who strongly oppose racism and also demand the removal of statues and monuments that glorify it. Is John King not aware that the earliest rebellions in Barbados saw enslaved Africans and indentured Irish people fighting together against the oppressive powers of that time? Does he not see across the whole globe that millions of people of all nationalities and colours are taking a united stand against racism, and those who seek to glorify it?

The thing is that the foundation of racism, upon which modern Barbados was established, cannot be incorporated into any new Barbados in which we simply see each other as human beings because racism is opposed exactly to this concept and insists on categorising people into superior and inferior groups. That is why today, people are demanding that racism has no place in the modern world. You cannot defend racism and its symbols and at the same time claim to be against it. Would anyone take Germany seriously if it claimed to be against Nazism while maintaining statues and other monuments glorifying Hitler and the other leaders of the Nazi regime?

I wonder if Mr King’s comments about the parliament building, the wharf and elsewhere are serious comments. If they are, he really does have no understanding of this issue. Wasn’t Barbados itself around during slavery and playing a part in it? What are we to do with it? Throw it in the sea? The demand is very clear. Statues and monuments are some of the ways in which society honours individuals from the past. Those that glorify racists and people involved in the commission of crimes against humanity should be taken down from the public space because they are a statement that the society honours racism and crimes against humanity in the here and now.

There are, of course, many other issues in Barbados that need to be addressed in order to build a new and inclusive society that works for all Barbadians. However, we will make no headway with these if we are unable to confront and overcome the monster of racism that still disfigures our island. The taking down of Nelson is a small step in this effort.

On this issue, Minister King is quite simply wrong.

Read Minister John King’s article published in the Nation newspaper 18 June 2020


 

King not on board with dumping Nelson

MINISTER OF CULTURE John King is not in support of the wholesale removal of Lord Nelson’s statue in The City.

He told the media yesterday his opinions on Nelson and race on the whole were personal and he would stick by them, even if they cost him.

“There are a number of papers I am now studying, from about 2009, on discussions various Cabinets would have had on this issue, but on a personal note – and I know what I am about to say is going to upset a lot of people – I would agree that if you’re talking about Heroes Square,there are validations to the varied opinions. But I will not – and it could cost me everything – be a part or party of trying to do to others what we say has been done to us,” he said.

Calls for the removal of the statue were made again during last Saturday’s protest march through Bridgetown in support of the Black Lives Matter movement in the United Sates and across the world.

King said he did not believe in “stripping down everything and throwing it away”, saying there was a history before slavery and it was now time for a new mindset.

“If you are saying that during enslavement and the colonisation process, that our history, culture and way of life were wiped out and we came into places like the Americas as minorities, why would you now turn around and advocate to do the same thing to somebody else? The discussion we should be having is, if we want to remove this statue, where do we put it?

“How do we recognise the collective history of Barbados is not relegated solely to Barbadians of Afro descent? How do we also incorporate the history of the indigenous people who were here [first]? How do you incorporate

all of the groups that make up Barbados? Let us look at these things for what they are and use them to inspire ourselves to change our prejudices and look at each other as human beings,” he urged.

King said the Parliament Buildings

and the Wharf were around during slavery and played a part in it, asking if those too should be thrown away. He said the Nelson statue should be utilised to the advantage of Barbados while not disadvantaging anyone.

As for the Black Lives Matter movement, King, who as a calypsonian and Pic-O-De-Crop monarch performed social commentaries such as

Fool’s Paradise, How Many More? and I Want A Plantation, said he was accustomed to speaking out against social injustice on his own and would only join any group if and when he felt it necessary.

“I’ve always been advocating against racism, as an entertainer performing overseas and from growing up in England, so I know it well. What is going on in the Unites States has been going on for eons but it is now easier to see due to social media.

“[However] there are other issues right here I don’t hear people talking about, issues some people don’t want to protest, such as classism, which is also a knee on people’s necks. We need to talk about the violence in our own communities . . . and I don’t hear anyone talking about the history of the people we call ‘red legs’ in St John. I hope our future generations find themselves in a different place,” he said.

(CA)

 


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598 responses to “Minister John King is Wrong”

  1. WURA-War-on-U Avatar

    Notice the tone…Black people on the island have had enuff from the traitors in the parliament and the low class, nobody thieves and racists in the minority community, UKs rejects ….the tone is now set…

  2. WURA-War-on-U Avatar

    Specifically for the useless jackass Grenville…the people have spoken, if they are forced to speak any louder, they will have to take action as is their RIGHT…that cursed statue should have been removed weeks ago…but Mia thinks she can defy the people who voted her into the parliament, the people who fund the country…..just so she can show off for and please and appease minority thieves and racists…let her carry on…if she thinks she can win a war against over 260,000 angry black people so she help minority racists feel superior to the majority black population…

    ‘”He’s no hero to us’: Petition to remove Lord Nelson statue gathers steam in Barbados
    By Gavin

    Jun 08, 2020

    Towering over Bridgetown, Barbados for more than 200 years, one local activist is seeking to have Lord Horatio Nelson’s statue removed and replaced with an appropriate symbol of Bajan freedom. (Photo: Twitter @KevzPolitics)
    As the #BlackLivesMatter movement in the United States continues to inspire persons across the world, in Barbados local activists are renewing their call for the government to remove the statue of controversial war ‘hero’ Admiral Lord Horatio Nelson.

    The bronze statue of Nelson, located smack in Bridgetown’s National Heroes Square, is a towering reminder of British colonialism, and a petition demanding the Barbadian government’s attention (and action) is gaining traction.

    According to the petition’s organiser, Alex Downes, Lord Nelson cannot be the symbol that encapsulates freedom as he was against the abolition of slavery in the 1830s.

    “In a country where approx. 95 per cent of the population is also black, why do we continue to proudly force ourselves to relive the traumas our people have faced by having this statue stand in Heroes Square?” Downes asked.

    “The time to start addressing our racist past is NOW. The time to remove Lord Nelson’s Statue from Bridgetown is NOW,” he declared.

    More than 3,100 persons have signed the #NelsonMustGo petition since launching on Sunday (June 7), with the initial target set at 5,000 signatures.

    For over 200 years, Downes argues, Nelson’s classification as a hero is not in the interest of Barbados as he fought the Battle of Trafalgar for the British to ensure the island didn’t fall into the hands of France.

    Formally called Trafalgar Square, Nelson’s Statue was erected in 1813 and predates Nelson’s Column in London by some 30 years.

    The bronze statue has been a contentious issue in Barbados for many years; whenever plans to remove it surfaced, a vigorous debate would then ensue derailing the effort.

    Nelson’s statue saw its last attempt at removal in 1999 when Trafalgar Square was renamed Heroes Square. Once again, a fierce debate only resulted in it being turned around.

    Contempt for the statue hasn’t waned, however, and it was defaced in protest on Independence Eve (November 29th) in 2017.

    “The statue of Admiral Lord Horatio Nelson should be removed from Heroes Square and replaced with an appropriate symbol of freedom,” Downes wrote.”


  3. According to the petition’s organiser, Alex Downes, Lord Nelson cannot be the symbol that encapsulates freedom as he was against the abolition of slavery in the 1830s.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Nelson was dead in 1805.

    How was he able to do anything in the 1830’s?

    Wilberforce opposed the abolition of slavery too!!

  4. WURA-War-on-U Avatar

    “an ex-Nigerian Etonian”….is a HOUSE NEGRO……it’s because of mental midgets and weakminded negros like him and the Barrows and Adams ,,,,who were actually HELPLESS against british strength in that era…..that has Africa and many other black countries in the same degraded state…all the pretty flowery eton shite talk means nothing, they have been socially engineered and don’t even know it..

    but every house negro since then has been A TRAITOR and sell out, since they claimed to be the most educated and yet 50 years later the black majority…HAVE NOTHING TO SHOW for paying to educate them……..but the stinking racist minorities most of whom are not even a quarter as educated do……all because of sell out treacherous mental midget house negros.

  5. WURA-War-on-U Avatar

    So what prompted this one who was so gungho to send 50 Black people to RACIST UK to work for slave wages at 8 pounds an hour only a couple months ago, to realize that racism, modern day slavery and apartheid still exists in Barbados….i will take him more seriously when i see the slave master wannabe RACISTS and thieves bizzy, cow, maloney bjerkham and all the other likeminded in the minority community …..LOCKED UP arrested for practicing these crimes againts the majority Black population for DECADES…LOCKED UP arrested for stealing from the treasury, pension fund and the loans and grants obtained ….IN THE BLACK POPULATION’S NAMES.

    so where did the sudden change of heart come from….it’s been YEARS and years we have spoken about this on the blogs….Keltruth blog out of Miami, Barbados Free Press, Barbados Underground….dozens and dozens of BLOGGERS have exposed and expressed their dismay FOR YEARS about these crimes committed against the people and country…expressed for years and years….THAT IT MUST END or the island would COLLAPSE because of these governments sanctioned crimes against Black people and all the CORRUPTION…so how come you just found out about all of this….it is nothing recent, it is a staple in the lives of generations of the majority population and IS DAMN HARD TO MISS…

    “Minister of Labour Colin Jordan has called on Barbadians to confront “pervasive and systemic” racism, which he said still exists in Barbados.

    During debate on a Private Members’ resolution on Black Lives Matter in the House of Assembly yesterday, Jordan said he would not be silent on the issue.

    “Today at this time I believe that we have come to a pivotal place in our history where we have to say we are duty-bound; we are bound by our own morality and ethics to say that enough is enough. Racism must be debunked as a theory and it must be dismantled,” the St Peter MP said.

    In a debate in which much attention was directed at the call for the removal of Lord Nelson’s statue from National Heroes Square, Jordan also called for the erection of a Speightstown monument in honour of Cuffy, a slave rebellion leader from St Peter, “to represent the struggle of black people in this country against racism in all its forms and against slavery in all its forms”

  6. WURA-War-on-U Avatar

    Miller, Piece, Pacha, TSLN….people power..

    Black Power!!!

  7. WURA-War-on-U Avatar

    Theo…we can now wax philosophical and say that everything is a THEORY…until it turns into REALITY..

  8. WURA-War-on-U Avatar

    We have the power to dismantle racism in all its evil forms…

    http://chng.it/nXPd7TzhTG?fbclid=IwAR386Cez0Nd1mNj6sOooYva0x361iA8Gq-5M8IbQktvaa8eBit4l77EDVEg


  9. @ John June 24, 2020 3:37 AM
    “Nelson was dead in 1805.
    How was he able to do anything in the 1830’s?
    Wilberforce opposed the abolition of slavery too..”
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Stop being so pedantic!

    Aren’t you guilty of the same when you claim that there were far more free blacks in Barbados than slaves prior to the death of the same Nelson?

    Don’t you consistently lie by saying that there were loads of black land-owners educated and happily married in solid Christian unions thanks to the Quakers?

    According to your twisting of historical events, didn’t you argue that these same “free black slaves” contributed financially and physically to the erection of a ‘bronze’ statue honouring their white god and saviour from the evil French even before the same Nelson compatriots and ex-naval colleagues erected one in the real Trafalgar Square in London?

    As for Wilberforce, he was no more complicit in slavery than John Newton- both of whom like Saul of Tarsus the converted poster boy for Christianity- were stricken by the Light. Wilberforce was just the parliamentary face for the abolition of slavery in the BWI; not its body.

    Next you will be arguing that the defeat of the wicked Spanish Armada by the wrath of Mother Nature was the reason why Captain Cooke was able to take English Christianity (and not Roman Catholicism) to Australia to save the black souls of its indigenous people.


  10. In 1836, only one black man, Robert Collymore, owned an estate, Haggatt Hall. In the 1820s, only three men of colour, Jacob Belgrave and his two sons, owned sugar plantations. Originally, they owned Adventure in St Philip, which Jacob had owned since 1803. The majority of the landless slave owners were people of colour.
    I point his out to make the point again, that the names are familiar, brown-skinned Bajans did not get their status from space, it grew out of slavery, the early colonial period and the later colonial period up to 1966. Look at the inter-marriages, the business links, the close friendships for what I call the hidden unwiring of Barbadian society.
    It is not just white Bajans, but some brown-skinned ones, what we used to call coloured, and some black families.


  11. Hal AustinJune 24, 2020 8:01 AM

    The majority of the landless slave owners were people of colour.
    ++++++++++++++++++++
    Hal

    You can search the slave registers from 1817 to 1832 for any families that owned slaves, just put the surname.

    The free coloured, be they free mulattoes or free negroes who owned slaves would almost certainly have owned land.

    Slaves were fed, housed and clothed so it would be unlikely for any owner of slaves regardless of colour not to have owned land or some business.

    Both Negroes and Mulattoes were routinely freed and by 1817 over 600 owned slaves.

    One example of a free mulatto who owned slaves was of course Ann Gill later known as Sarah Ann Gill.

    She is obviously not a very good candidate from the pantheon of heroes to replace Nelson quite apart from the fact that she did not lay down her life like all of the others.

    She owned slaves in her own right and as the widow of Alexander Gill, also a free mulatto.

    She owned land in fact she is supposed to have given some to the Methodist Church in James Street.

    Another example of a free mulatto would have been Selah (Celia) Lovell.

    She does not appear in the 1817 register but I have come across her earlier owning both land and slaves in Christ Church.

    She was baptised in 1739 so lived in an era prior to the Registers.

    There is a Sally Norville described as a Free Negro in the Registers and a Provey Mahew also described as a Free Negro.

    Thomas Cuffley freed most of his Negro slaves in 1721/2.

    He gave them land and also slaves.

    Ownership of slaves went with ownership of land unless you were in Bridgetown and in business.

    Had to.

    Can’t feed house and clothe slaves out of thin air.

    So you would expect Rachel Polgreen (1753-1791) to have owned slaves and a hotel.


  12. Hal AustinJune 24, 2020 8:01 AM

    The majority of the landless slave owners were people of colour.

    I point his out to make the point again, that the names are familiar, brown-skinned Bajans did not get their status from space, it grew out of slavery, the early colonial period and the later colonial period up to 1966. Look at the inter-marriages, the business links, the close friendships for what I call the hidden unwiring of Barbadian society.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Let’s take the Austin Family, your family.

    In the 1817 Returns for Barbados, there were atleast two Austins who were Free Mulattoes, Eliza H. Austin and Christian Austin.

    Eliza H Austin owned 4 and Christian Austin 2.

    Almost certainly they owned land as well but have never looked at their wills and deeds.

    View Record Name Birth Date Residence Date Residence Place Owner View Images
    View Record
    Richard Barker Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    Mary Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    John Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    Jane Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    Margaret Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    William S Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    Catharine Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    Thomas Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    Lucretia Jane Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    Sarah Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    Fm Eliza H Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    Ann Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    Sarah Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    Charlotte Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    William Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    Stephen Blackett Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    George H Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    Matthew K Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    Damaris Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    George Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    Agnis Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    Richard Keene Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    Frances Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    Eliza H Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    Mary Ann Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    Anna Letitia Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    Elizabeth Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    Lucy Wightwick Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    Christian Austin
    1817 Barbados
    View Record
    Reverend Richard Austin
    1817 Barbados

  13. Freedom Crier Avatar

    Parliament Buildings, Bridgetown, Year: ca 1880

    ‘One wonders why we worry about one little statue while next to it stands the biggest monument to Colonialism/slavery on the island. The Public Buildings. Who put it there? What paid for it? Not sugar? Not slaves lives? What system of Government does it closest represent? I don’t see how you can remove Nelson and let the Public Buildings stand. It would seem to me that that they both represent the same thing in our History…. and while you are at it don’t forget all the Garrison buildings.’

    Located at the top of Broad Street, in the capital city of Bridgetown, Barbados, these historic Parliament Buildings (once known as the Public Buildings) are home to the House of Assembly and Senate. Packing more than 350 years of history, these buildings were built from local limestone and completed in 1874 by a Gothic Architecture.

    These buildings were built as a primary source of adequate accommodation for the Houses of Parliament, to consolidate the major public offices and to safely and securely file any of Barbados’ Public Records.

    The Parliament of Barbados is the third oldest legislature in the Americas (behind The Virginia House of Burgesses, and Bermuda House of Assembly), and is among the oldest in the Commonwealth of Nations.

    https://i.pinimg.com/564x/cf/91/71/cf9171508628350268e5615a3e089a7b.jpg


  14. I think what was particular to both the Free Negroes and Free Mulattoes who owned slaves and by extension land and businesses is that both developed strategies for economic survival long long before emancipation.

    They became the shop keepers and the literate members of a village after slavery on whom people depended for advice and direction.

    Their colour was not important, it is what they had in their heads, their cultural capital.

    It is more likely that they married within their class and if possible above but rarely below.

    I think that’s what explains the class structure, how long individual the ancestors of members enjoyed freedom from slavery and had to make their own way in the world.

    Some slaves got a head start.


  15. how long individual the ancestors of members

    should be

    how long the ancestors of individual members

    Marriage is important.

    Erroll Barrow is supposed to have said in the house that only he and Bree could say their grandparents were married or some such words.

    What I think he may have been saying was both came from higher classes than rank and file members.

    Two different shades of colour,


  16. @ Quaker John,
    John Pollard Mayers, the colonial agent for Barbados, reported in 1833 that there were 5200 slaveowners in Barbados, 73 per cent of whom did not own any land. Mayers also told Lord Goderich, of the Colonial Office, that the majority of landless slaveowners were people of colour.
    What is interesting is that the governor, Sir Lionel Smith, wrote in one of his reports that a Barbadian could never think there was any other colony of half the value of Barbados to the mother country.
    This same observation was repeated in governors’ reports to the Colonial Office following the early 20th century migration to Panama. It is a sentiment that has flowed through the cultural veins of Barbadians up to this day, that Barbados is exceptional.
    @John, you are right about the inter-marrying of the ‘coloured’ former slave owners, and how they became small businesspeople after the abolition; these are the people who became members of the various vestries, the legislative council, and only lost political power from 1951-66.
    This colourism, classism and social snobbery is almost uniquely Barbadian. We can slice and dice our history as we like, but the unintended consequence of digging too far back in our history is that some familiar names may also be dug up.
    Out of decency I will not call some of the names, but anyone observant of Barbadian social order will be familiar with the names. I had an experience 20 years ago this year in Barbados.
    I went for a service and had to give my name and contact details. The young lady serving me asked if I knew someone, and called a name. I said yes, that is my uncle.
    She jumped in amazement and told me about her family. The moment she did we started talking family history going back to before either of us was born.
    That is what you get in a little society.


  17. @ John

    Both Barrow and St John came from plantation-owning black foreparents. I rest my case. Watch out also for the illegitimate children of these well-to-do men (they are always men). They too got advantages.


  18. Kerry’s fraud self is showing, he thinks someone believes him, wonder if his client that he was helping the insurance company deprive of any compensation for his pain and suffering got paid out yet, he too has a belly to fill and a family to take care of….goddamn fraud lawyers…gotta get them out of the parliament from stinking up the place with lies and deceit…


  19. “This same observation was repeated in governors’ reports to the Colonial Office following the early 20th century migration to Panama. It is a sentiment that has flowed through the cultural veins of Barbadians up to this day, that Barbados is exceptional.”

    Part of the social engineering and mental conditioning designed specifically for a slave society, up to this day the 21st century slaveminded still believe that load of shite…especially since the only people who benefitted in that bygone era were slave masters, but the descendant of slaves still believe every word and act out the part…still….jsut as they believe there are good treated slaves, bad treated slaves, worse treated slave… a mental condition that makes it that much easier to RE-ENSLAVE the whole lot of idiots again and add some more really inventive engineered wickedness too…and they will just sit accept and tolerate all of it starting the cycle all over again..

    …masters of ingenuity…am sure the blue prints are sitting on someone’s desk..

    … they should start with the clown Grenville…ah would give them all the half human sell outs in the parliament for free, won’t even want a dime for them….


  20. If the three “haters” had not chased the clown Grenville Phillips off BU he would now be calling TheO a hater.

    TheO, I could not have said it better! I have nothing to add. As WURA has concluded – he is finished.

    I wonder what has Piece so busy that he hasn’t noted his successful campaign. Probably plotting and hatching some other scheme. Maybe he is fixing to replace Atherley with Caswell.


  21. Hal AustinJune 24, 2020 10:05 AM

    @ Quaker John,
    John Pollard Mayers, the colonial agent for Barbados, reported in 1833 that there were 5200 slaveowners in Barbados, 73 per cent of whom did not own any land. Mayers also told Lord Goderich, of the Colonial Office, that the majority of landless slaveowners were people of colour.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Something is funny with your numbers.

    73 % of 5200 is approximately 3900.

    The majority of 3900 is 1950 plus who were people of colour.

    I looked at the 1817 Returns when I did my due diligence way back in 2002 in the UWI library.

    Back then it wasn’t on the internet so I wrote out every single slave owner in exercise books and the numbers of slaves they owned.

    I got approximately 600 coloured slave owners and 6000 slave owners.

    If we both are right it means that coloured ownership of slaves more than trebled between 1817 and 1833.

    It also means that about 40% of the slave owners who received compensation were coloured, either free negro or free coloured.

    That is really interesting and bears investigation.

    What I suspect may be the case is that John Pollard Mayers when he said that 73 % of the slave owners owned no land meant that they owned very little.

    About 300 “large” plantations exist in Barbados.

    That would mean most slave owners did not own much land.

    Of course they may have rented.

    But ownership of slaves required the wherewithal to feed, house and clothe them and cash was a scarce commodity.


  22. WURA,

    Looks like the national debate has started! This is the moment when we can actually push for change. The world is ready for it.

    Anyone who is not for us is against us!

    Where stand the descendants of the slavers??? They shall not be allowed the luxury of silence!

    Not this time.


  23. When my ancestor, the son of a slave bought 12 acres in 1837, it was known as a “plantation” called Bartletts.

    It was owned by William Francis Eagle who in 1834 returned 18 slaves.

    They became apprentices.

    So by 1837 when my ancestor bought it the 12 acres would have been supporting 18 apprentices and the family of William Francis Eagle.

    My uncle told me as a boy he was given the responsibility of farming some of the land and the rest was rented to tenants.

    Renting was definitely went on.

    Still, if I were told that 40% of the slave owners in 1833 were coloured I would check those numbers.


  24. DonnaJune 24, 2020 11:11 AM

    Where stand the descendants of the slavers??? They shall not be allowed the luxury of silence

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    As a descendant of slaves, free people of colour who owned slaves, white people who owned slaves, Jews who owned slaves, white people, people of colour Jews who did not own slaves and any other combination you choose my inclination would be to leave well enough alone and concentrate on trying to resurrect the economy.

    Don’t be a historic dummy!!


  25. …. besides, you are probably a descendant of slavers!!


  26. @ Quaker John

    I cannot vouch for your information. But if you look at the correspondence between Mayers and Goderich, March 2,1833, in the Agents’ Letterbook, (Colonial Office 28/111).
    @John, you must do some original research. Nothing is wrong with the numbers. 73 per cent of slaveowners has no land and the majority of the landless slaveowners were ‘coloured’.
    The history of Barbados is very complex, it is not a binary black and white. I see one Asian Muslim, writing in Barbados Today, is now calling for the statue of Nelson to be removed. Nice to know he has our interest at heart.


  27. JohnJune 24, 2020 11:27 AM

    DonnaJune 24, 2020 11:11 AM

    Where stand the descendants of the slavers??? They shall not be allowed the luxury of silence

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    As a descendant of slaves, free people of colour who owned slaves, white people who owned slaves, Jews who owned slaves, white people, people of colour Jews who did not own slaves and any other combination you choose my inclination would be to leave well enough alone and concentrate on trying to resurrect the economy.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Oh yeah, I forgot Quakers, Anglicans, Roman Catholics, Closed Brethren etc etc etc …


  28. … Amerindians too I believe!!


  29. @Quaker John

    What about the Clapham Sect who were very active in Barbados? They were better know for fighting for abolition than the Quakers. As it happens, I drive by the church, on Clapham Common, at least once a week. It is still a very popular church. James Stephen, of the Clapham Sect, was a commissioner and expert on West Indian law,


  30. Girl..
    “DonnaJune 24, 2020 11:11 AM

    WURA,

    Looks like the national debate has started! This is the moment when we can actually push for change. The world is ready for it.

    Anyone who is not for us is against us!

    Where stand the descendants of the slavers??? They shall not be allowed the luxury of silence!

    Not this time.”

    Black John…..that is what is so invigorating. The best of both worlds, slave masters’ bloodlines being of some use. Can’t be beat.


  31. Donna…..we are going to starve them off the island. They want the economy resurrected so they can continue to steal from the black majority and then walk around practicing racism against the same people using their victim’s own money….they have the most lose. Let them feel what it’s like to suffer.

    Has anyone asked the minister Jordon exactly who is practicing this racism and modern day slavery in their multiple repulsive forms and have been or decades. Now that is a question that certainly deserves an answer. Cause as far as i know those are human rights violations under international law, says so right up in the UN where Ambassador Covid was so proud to sit and brag and boast and if this young minister knows about the racism and modern day slavery plaguing the island for over 50 years post emancipation…then Ambassador Covid knows even more about that curse they kept on the island since she has been around for more than 25 years or more and seem not to have any hearing, seeing or other impairments. There is simply no excuse that the parliament rifraff can find to make up some lie about why that was allowed to happen by both governments generationally.

    Yall frauds should not try to blame the parents or anything else for that. You stink things have been overseers of a slave society practicing racism against the people and robbing them too and blaming them too in ya usual blame the victim style and no one is having any more of that..nope. So ya may as well get ya fat asses off ya taxpayer paid high horses and come to the new age understanding that none of this sustainable and will not be allowed to continue. The people have spoken..


  32. Hal AustinJune 24, 2020 11:45 AM

    @Quaker John

    What about the Clapham Sect who were very active in Barbados? They were better know for fighting for abolition than the Quakers. As it happens, I drive by the church, on Clapham Common, at least once a week. It is still a very popular church. James Stephen, of the Clapham Sect, was a commissioner and expert on West Indian law,

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The Clapham Sect arises out of Quakers from Barbados, also referred to as “the cradle of truth” and Quakers from the UK and America … wherever they happened to be in the World.

    They are all tied together by their faith.

    9 of the 12 members of the Clapham Sect were Quakers, 3 were Anglicans!!!

    Quakers could not be Members of Parliament until 1832 because they would swear no oaths.

    Wilberforce was an Evangelical Christian persuaded to speak in Parliament on their behalf.

    Read Thomas Clarkson’s book (3 volumes) on Quakerism.

    As he put it in his opening paragraph “FROM the year 1787, when I began to devote my labours to the abolition of the Slave-trade, I was thrown frequently into the company of the people· called Quakers. These people had been then long unanimous upon this subject. Indeed, they had placed it among the articles of their religious discipline. Their houses were of course open to. me in all parts of the kingdom, Hence I came to a knowledge of their living manners, which no other person who was not a Quaker, could have easily obtained.”

    A PORTRAITURE OF Q U A K E R I S M, TAKEN FROM A VIEW OF THE MORAL EDUCATION, DISCIPL.INE, PECULIAR CUSTOMS, RELIGIOUS PRINCIPLES, POLITICAL AND CIVIL ECONOMY, AND CHARACTER, OF THE SOCIETY OF FRIENDS.
    BY
    THOMAS CLARKSON, MA ·
    AUTOR OF SEVERAL ESSAYS ON THE SUBJECT OF THE SLAVE-TR.ADE
    IN THREE VOLUMES.

    “1787. Creation of the Society for Effecting the Abolition of the Slave Trade, with the main committee comprising nine Quakers and three Anglicans:”

    https://kentquakers.org.uk/quakers-and-the-abolition-of-the-slave-trade-the-abolition-of-slavery-a-timeline/


  33. @ John

    The Clapham Sect were Anglicans, Evangelicals. Were/are Quakers Anglicans?

  34. WURA-War-on-U Avatar

    See what happens when fowls come home to roost, all this has been rehashed and spun out years and years ago….but it can’t for a little reminder…the author is on point, can’tt fight the truth….and the rats are always looking for scapegoats and believe it somehow makes them oh so ever intelligent.

    .practice of racism, oppression of the black population whose money fund the island, apartheid, wholesale thefts keeping generations in economic bondage……THOSE ARE CRIMES….and the perpetrators of these evil crimes on both the government and minority sides MUST BE NAMED.,

    “Azzari Walcott
    43 mins
    AND THE GRAMMY AWARDS WINNERS FOR BEST ACTRESS AND ACTOR IS MIA MOTTLEY AND JOHN KING ….

    There’s enough historical evidence that suggest that the BLP mandate is the same mandate handed down to Grantley Adams by the White planters society of colonial Barbados … It hasn’t evolved to include black business owners …
    With regards to BLM, What Mia and her colleagues have said before, is exactly what THEY stand for and defends, “WHITE COLONIAL BARBADOS ” …..
    Mia has made it very clear and have not retract one bit of it — that with regards to Black Lives Matters and the resulting protest – she is not into Fads and does not join Bandwagons … But now they and Others are in parliament arguing reluctantly over resolutions to suggest solidarity with BLM after being called out on the glaring absence of such, ” a speech of ACKNOWLEDGEMENT ”
    This last minute show if solidarity, shows a total lack of sincerity and therefore their words cannot be trusted ….
    The truth of the matter is, the government of Barbados under Mia Mottley has no interest in standing in solidarity with Black Lives Matter or the global George Floyd protest.
    Their resolution is but a weak attempt to mitigate the potential fallout from turning their backs on the Black world – A world that they are now wanting to re-invite to “come to Barbados.”
    Hypocrisy in the BLP politics is nothing new anyway …
    While pursuing a no nonsense policy on crime to blind the police to their illegal activities Bree St John son was caught importing cocaine into Barbados …
    While pursuing a no nonsense policy on crime to blind the police, Sir David Simmons niece was charged for importing drugs into Barbados …
    While pursuing a no nonsense policy on crime to blind the police, Owen Arthur brother was charged for guns ….
    Hypocrisy, Scapegoatism and political classism goes hand in hand with BLP POLITICS …”.

  35. WURA-War-on-U Avatar

    Donna girl, they are getting exactly what they deserve.they have done this evil shit for decades all because once they lie their way into that parliament…suddenly the black population becomes black property for them and the criminal minorities they align themselves with to rob and oppress the people and they have a responsibility to tell the current generations of the descendants of African slaves ….why..

    this will not go away, these are crimes against the entire black population.

  36. WURA-War-on-U Avatar

    The wannabe slavemasters in Barbados’ parliament are now on their own, so consumed by self-hate now it gets to consume you….everything on the island is labeled plantation, the only thing the people seem to be allowed to talk about is plantation life.

    your evil crimes against them is at an end.

    “The state of Rhode Island is moving to change its official name — “The State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations” — due to its connection to slavery. Rhode Island Governor Gina Raimondo signed an executive order on Monday to change what appears on government documents, and the state’s legislature is moving forward with a bill to alter the name entirely.”


  37. Hal AustinJune 24, 2020 12:52 PM

    @ John

    The Clapham Sect were Anglicans, Evangelicals. Were/are Quakers Anglicans?

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    That’s not what I learnt at school!!!


  38. @Quaker John

    What did you, or didn’t you learn at school?


  39. Creation of the Society for Effecting the Abolition of the Slave Trade, with the main committee comprising nine Quakers and three Anglicans:
    Quakers: John Barton; William Dillwyn; George Harrison; Samuel Hoare Jr; Joseph Hooper; John Lloyd; Joseph Woods Sr; James Phillips; and Richard Phillips.
    Anglicans: Granville Sharp; Thomas Clarkson and Philip Sansom.
    Clarkson was the main liaison between the committee and MPs in parliament – in particular Wilberforce – who opposed to the slave trade.


  40. @ Quaker John

    You are once more prevaricating. What were you, or weren’t you, taught at school? Answer the question.


  41. Oh dear! Now I am the descendant of the slavers! Then I claim my inheritance! Judging from my surname, I probably am related to the queen!

    But if you are speaking about African slavers who may be in my past, they are in my past and I have no knowledge of them and no social or economic gains from which I still benefit. I am not responsible for their actions. I am not perpetuating their misdeeds. I oppress no-one.

    If the acknowledged heirs of the European slavers who made the rules that excluded me would please step forward ……


  42. @ John June 24, 2020 5:18 PM
    “Creation of the Society for Effecting the Abolition of the Slave Trade, with the main committee comprising nine Quakers and three Anglicans:”
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    And these are the same very good morally clean white people whom your racist slavery loving Horatio Nelson opposed and attacked vehemently.

    Is that the kind of character you would wish to extol and uphold as a paragon of salvation and fitting to be memorialized in the form of an idol in the eyes of a modern more ‘Christian’ Barbados populated predominantly by the descendants of those slaves whom Nelson would have given his other arm and remaining eye to keep in bondage?


  43. Oh dear! They are getting more desperate. Their absurd arguments grow more and more frenetic.

    “Please, don’t make us fess up! We love our blood money! It is ours and you can’t have it!”


  44. Sorry Hal

    For some reason the top part of the post was not posted.

    I learnt that the Quakers were responsible for the abolition of the slave trade and ultimately slavery

    I also learnt about the Clapham Sect and assumed the two were the same.

    It looks as though as Clarkson said in his book some Evangelical Christians and Anglicans including himself, joined the Quaker effort to abolish the Slave Trade which had been ongoing for years.

    They formed a committee which then liased with the MP’s in Parliament.

    Wilberforce, also an evangelical Christian and a member of the Clapham Sect.

    It stands to reason that the people who were involved in slavery and knew of its evils would have started the process of ending it long before others cottoned on.

    However, Quakers had no voice in Parliament, simple fact.

    It had to be a joint effort.


  45. MillerJune 24, 2020 5:42 PM

    @ John June 24, 2020 5:18 PM
    “Creation of the Society for Effecting the Abolition of the Slave Trade, with the main committee comprising nine Quakers and three Anglicans:”
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    And these are the same very good morally clean white people whom your racist slavery loving Horatio Nelson opposed and attacked vehemently.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    If you look carefully at Nelson’s attack on Wilberforce he refers to FRIENDS who he seeks to protect and for whom
    ultimately he lays his life down.

    Before becoming an evangelical Christian Wilberforce was a n’eer do well!!

    Too much money, too much time, gambled, drunk caroused.

    Then a light went on in his head.

    Nelson may justifiably have viewed Wilberforce as a charlatan.

    Most of his time was spent at sea.

    Quote the passage you are referring to and see.

    Then go and see why Quakers are properly referred to as “The Society of Friends”.

    Quaker was a derogatory term which stuck so many don’t realise there is actually a formal name.


  46. @Quaker John

    So am I to conclude that much of your claims for the Quakers are hyperbole? The Clapham Sect was the most powerful anti-slavery movement in the UK and colonies and they were Anglicans..


  47. Hal AustinJune 24, 2020 10:09 AM

    @ John

    Both Barrow and St John came from plantation-owning black foreparents

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    … and of course we know that Sarah Ann Gill owned and traded in slaves.

    So, if slavery is such a big deal, The Right Excellent the honourable Erroll Walton Barrow and the Right Excellent Sarah Ann Gill need to be removed from the pantheon of national heroes and any statues or likenesses need to be removed.!!

    The wiser move is to just leave well enough alone.

    The lesson to be learnt is next time the GOB needs to hire some better educated and more knowledgeable historians when it looks at potential national heroes.

    In 1999 when they produced their recommendations the internet was new and the data sets and search engines that are available now were not available then.

    They fell victim to their lack of knowledge and appreciation of what would become available in the future to even children.

    In short, they screwed up!!


  48. @ John June 24, 2020 5:59 PM
    “Before becoming an evangelical Christian Wilberforce was a n’eer do well!!
    Too much money, too much time, gambled, drunk caroused.
    Then a light went on in his head.”
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    So what’s the big difference between Wilberforce and Paul in your Bible except one was a hired assassin who took pride in capturing Christians and selling them as bounty to the Romans as slaves and meat for lions?

    It can be argued that Admiral Rodney would have made a better role model for Bajans than that Nelson.


  49. @ Quaker John

    You are again trying to shift the discussion? Are you now accepting that your view of the role of Quakers in the abolition of slavery in Barbados was exaggerated?


  50. Hal AustinJune 24, 2020 6:02 PM

    @Quaker John

    The Clapham Sect was the most powerful anti-slavery movement in the UK and colonies and they were Anglicans..

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Ahhhh, but when????

    I was always taught it was the Quakers who saw to the abolition and Thomas Clarkson’s 3 volume book confirms it.

    He came and found them at it in 1787.

    What happened before 1787?

    The Anglican Church of Barbados until 1824 had no Bishop, there was no Diocese in existence.

    Not very powerful, was it?!!

    It’s churches routinely blew down.

    The first Anglican Bishop was Coleridge,

    He presided from 1824 to 1842,

    The Quaker influence in Barbados waned after 1760.

    The Quakers ran the economy and Government.

    The Quakers owned the land.

    Quakers owned the slaves.

    The Quakers paid the taxes.

    The Quakers routinely got in trouble for not paying their church dues.

    The Anglican Church was until the late 1700’s and early 1800’s a side show, poorly financed.

    It became “established” after 1824 and in so doing provided a means of education and religious instruction to slaves.

    When Coleridge came, the Anglican church could accommodate 5000 congregants.

    Not many white people or free people of colour went to church!!

    If you use your figure of 2000 coloured, landless slave owners you will realise that if you consider their spouses and chiildren there was no room at the inn for any one else!!

    That’s because Quakers met in each other’s houses, in open fields with their slaves and in a few meeting houses.

    I can even tell you which fields.

    Their church was a spiritual one.

    Our historians never got that one!!!

    So they missed the Big Kahuna completely.

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