Government Complicit in the Liquidation Centre Matter

The Editor
Barbados Underground

Dear Sir/Madam

Recently,the Attorney General, Mr. Dale Marshall made some observations about the “Liquidation Center” which has been compulsory acquired by government. According to Marshall, the Center has been deemed unfit by the Public Health officials due to the high rodent infestation among other things. Marshall also went onto claim that four illegal connections to the potable water supply of this country were discovered on the premises of the “Liquidation Center.” I have some question that need clarification by Marshall.

1.) Were there inspections of the premises by the Public Health (Environmental) Officers up to the point of closure by government? If the answer is yes,the question remains why was the premises not closed before the seizure by government? One is left to infer that either there was political interference by both sets of government, hindering the Public Health Officers from doing their job, or that the Public Health Officers looked the other way,to avoid witnessing all of the defects which have suddenly appeared.

2). The four illegal connections to the country’s potable water supply seems to be a red-herring deflecting from the high-handed manner in which the closure took place. Marshall wants the populace to believe that with the water being disconnected, the business continued apace without toilet facilities. At some point following disconnection, the authorities must have wondered how it was that the business continued apace without a pause. One is left to conclude that there was some kind of tacit connivance on the part of the authorities.

The government seems to be acting in an totalitarian manner in this affair. In small countries like Barbados one must be on guard against totalitarianism .

 

Sincerely

Robert D. Lucas, PH.D.

314 comments

  • “You really need to choose a better class of friend.

    Why is this crook your friend?”

    hello…yall need to get a better class of governments, politicians and minorities…they are the ones SET YOU UP TO BE ROBBED BY ANY WHITE, INDIAN OR SYRIAN WHO CRAWLS ASHORE TO BARBADOS…and can BRIBE THEM…..SO blame them,…

    … they invite anyone to rob you, BLAME THEM.

    …..they will soon invite those with shackles and chains to snap them on you …SO BLAME THEM..

    ……they will sell your asses for anything…you cannot blame those who were INVITED TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF BY BY YOUR WICKED NEGROS..in parliament calling themselves your leaders…

    Like

  • From as far back as 2004 i have had whites and others warning me about what was going on in Barbados…what your corrupt leaders caused, you need to look in the direction of the parliamnet, bar association and in any hole you can find a dirty politician and their yardfowls…

    my friend did me a courtesy by telling me what he did, he did not have to say a word, because a BLACK BAJAN WOULD HAVE SAID NOTHING…just smirked and be proud that their people were being ROBBED BY THE SCUM OF THE EARTH…..in their usual mentally enslaved style.

    AND since alyuh suffer with PERPETUAL SHORT MEMORIES WHEN IT COMES TO TIEFING LAWYERS AND POLITICIANS…ALWAYS REMEMBER THIS:

    “If this government were marginalised and relegated to the shadows then I believe that there would be an influx of returnees and their children. It is probably this group who are more likely to bring fundamental change to the island.”

    BUT first you have to get rid of BLP out of the parliament…PERMANENTLY…

    NEVER…elect DLP AGAIN..

    BREAK…that dirty criminal connection between political parties and the covetous, poisonous, corrupt Willams family AND ALL THE MINORITIES ON THE ISLAND who now have a contract from both stink governments from 2005 to build prisons to LOCK UP BLACK PEOPLE to ENRICH THEMSELVES and keep the black population underneath their feet, always poor, always hungry, alway struggling,

    ,,,,..you and your FUTURE GENERATIONS ARE AT HIGH RISK…if you do not DESTROY THESE STINK SAVAGES, BEFORE THEY DESTROY YOU AND YOURS…they are well on their way already, it is TIME TO STRIKE BACK…even if you do not care about yourselves at least CONSIDER THEM..

    and run these ignorant, nasty little yardfowls OFF THE ISLAND….

    then the island will be well on it’s way to recovery…BAJANS HAVE TO REMAIN VIGILANT or pay an EVEN BIGGER PRICE…

    TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR ISLAND AND SQUEEZE THE MINORITIES and both dirty sell out negro parties … OUT

    Like

  • And not only that…yall need to CALL OUT THESE DIRTY GOVERNMENTS…and make them STOP THE PACT with the same dirty criminal minorities that allows them to give them a HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS OF YOUR TAX DOLLARS ON THE REGULAR…regardless to which governemnt is in the parliament…which has been going on FOR DECADES.

    and stop TALKING SHITE.

    Like

  • Maloney denies misleading BNT

    Emmanuel Joseph
    Published on
    December 2, 2019

    Businessman Mark Maloney has dismissed outright, claims by President of the Barbados National Trust (BNT) Peter Stevens that the Hyatt backers misled the organisation regarding the true nature of the revised hotel project.

    Four days ago, Stevens – in an interview with Barbados TODAY – accused the developers of misleading the trust into believing that once additional land space was acquired by Government, the height and overall scale of the hotel for Bay Street, in the City would be reduced.

    Stevens said the trust had therefore agreed to the construction of the newly-designed US$175 million Hyatt Ziva based on those objectives, only now to find his organisation had been “railroaded”.

    But today, a disappointed Maloney was adamant it was the national trust president who was misleading the country.

    “First of all, we never misled anybody. Let me make that clear. We don’t mislead anyone. That statement is an insult to our professional integrity. We never, at any stage told anyone that by acquiring Mrs Ram’s place, the project would be smaller,” the prominent developer told Barbados TODAY, adding “how can we acquire more land and do a smaller project?”

    “We said the project would be spread over a larger portion of land. What we did do is we have separate buildings. Before we had one building going around and now we have separated the buildings,” he stated.

    The leading building contractor went on to explain that with the new design, there are different sized buildings which have been scaled on the extra land recently purchased.

    Maloney then sought to clear the air on the controversy surrounding the height of the revised project.

    “This notion that the buildings are 18 storeys tall…is misleading people. So if he [Stevens] wants to speak about misleading, the misleading is coming from his end,” he said.

    “Storeys are relative to height. Look at the height of the building. The Central Bank is 165 feet tall, but it is 10 storeys. Our 18-storey building is 190 feet. So we have an 18-storey building that is only 25 feet taller than the Central Bank…but it is because the Central Bank’s floor to floor heights are so high.”

    “So in today’s world we could build another 10 storeys in the Central Bank for the same height. So we could have a 20-storey building the same height as the Central Bank. So don’t have these people mislead the public that the height of the building…the 18 storeys, is a big problem,” Maloney told Barbados TODAY.

    However, the developer said the Hyatt buildings are not all 18 storeys. He pointed out that there is a ten-storey and a 15-storey building.

    “And the buildings are moved around on a larger property, so it doesn’t look like one big building which was there before. Not that what we did before was wrong, but it was what we did on a smaller property,” he added.

    Maloney said Stevens has been involved in the discussions regarding the project because he is part of the planning talks. “Nothing of the sort was ever raised in the planning meetings that we had. So we have been very opened in everything…and if he wanted to raise those points he should have raised them in the meeting in the presentation we did with the planning [department],” the developer insisted.

    He also responded to concerns expressed by Stevens who claimed that the construction of piers with restaurants out to sea would result in that portion of the sea being privatized.

    But Maloney said that any such construction could only be done in accordance with the policy of the Government, noting that other properties have piers in the sea as well and the sea bed belongs to the Crown.

    He also dismissed the trust president’s suggestion that the new Hyatt would exclude some local businesses under its all-inclusive brand.

    “That’s not true. There is nothing exclusive about the project,” Maloney stressed.

    In fact, he told Barbados TODAY that nothing would be done by his company, Vision Development Incorporated that is not in keeping with the social, economic, marine or heritage good of Barbados.

    He was emphatic that the project fell within the Government’s Master Plan for the area including the Pierhead and Carlisle Bay Development.

    “We have hired all of the professionals that we need to hire to do all of the studies and to ensure we take into account everything that comes out of those studies in building this development.”

    “We will make whatever changes that we need to make that are in keeping with what comes out of the studies and what makes sense from a heritage, a social, an economic and a marine perspective to make sure this project is good for Barbados now and for the future,” Maloney assured.
    emmanueljoseph@barbadostoday.bb

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  • He is a LIAR…he can’t help himself, they all need to be reported to the World Heritage people offshore and put a stop to this build, with the pact they have with the two corrupt governments, that is how they access the millions they steal from the people to pay bribes to ministers.

    Like

  • This article suggest Miss Ram has financial challenges. If correct it would influence her posture at the negotiating table with government over the liquidation centre.

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  • Well, either sell them or have them seized by her house negros who has a bigger paymaster…….lol

    the good news is, Bajans are now aware through viral sharing that their own governments gave contracts to minority criminals to build prisons to LOCK BLACK PEOPLE UP…and is paying them MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF BLACK PEOPLE’S MONEY…to do just that..

    and they are NOT PLEASED…something had to GIVE.

    yep…a silver lining.

    Keeping that vile secret for 15 YEARS, not telling the population a word, ROBBING THEM AND LOCKING THEM UP IN SECRET…would do that..

    alyuh see now why they all closed ranks and spent many, many thousands of dollars to shut down BU and get social media out of Barbados, just to criminalize their own people and profit from it…

    Like

  • David
    I am not wasting my time on the matter of whether the acquisition is for public purpose. The BU householders can continue to let Hal deceive them, or use common sense. On the value of the land, let me say it again, that land should be valued for public acquisition based on its existing use plus a premium, not alternative uses. What was the site value and improved value on which the last land tax bill was based? Those talking big do not understand property development viability, especially in the context of urban regeneration, and the need to robustly assess and manage the inputs. We just like to talk.

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  • @ Enuff

    So, if the property is left unused, or land vacant, then the value will be nothing plus a premium (ie a tip)? Is that a valuation from the Barbados School of Estate Valuation?
    Cut out the cynicism and put a proper argument. Even if most of us are black people, some of us may understand. While you are at it, plse give a legal definition of public interest(in the Barbados context) and explain the concept in relation to the Hyatt development, apart from some notion of urban regeneration.

    Liked by 2 people

  • …and make them STOP THE PACT with the same dirty criminal minorities that allows them to give them a HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS OF YOUR TAX DOLLARS ON THE REGULAR…regardless to which government is in the parliament…which has been going on FOR DECADES….a hundred million dollars of your money EVERY YEAR…so let that SINK IN…

    So..now that all of that has SUNK IN…everyone has been told via social media that the majority population on the island ARE NOW UNKNOWINGLY ALSO PAYING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF THEIR DOLLARS TO MINORITY CRIMINALS ON THE ISLAND TO BUILD PRISONS AND INCARCERATE THEM AND THEIR CHILDREN…for decades into the future…

    you can thank your evil corrupt DBLP for those CRIMES AGAINST YOU AND YOURS…….so BLAME THEM..i believe too many of you still think this is some joke….you will until….

    Like

  • SO…after all of THAT…has it sunk in yet that all of these thieves and criminals STILL TURN AROUND AND ROB YOUR PENSION FUND….well, has it…

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  • Hal
    No it is not from Barbados but from in England where you live and look down on us Bajans! Furthermore, all land in Barbados is classified with a use; therefore land designated as residential has an existing use even if undeveloped. So the agriculture lands with not one iota of produce are still agriculture use. Stick to talking about Michellin dinners and dining at The Shard, though I understand one can buy a burger with chips. As I said before, I am not repeating why this project as part of the whole constitutes a public purpose, especially when this practice is again so rampant in your non-failed state UK.

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  • All ya seeing on whatsapp is ……WTF!!!

    one way or another BAJANS MUST WAKE UP..

    so …how is the Kenya trip going, another secret trip, hope it pays the people who are paying for it.. mucho dividends…

    Like

  • Government seems to be complicit in everything and the Bajans are the ones paying for all of this….but they all forget…it is the same BLACK PEOPLE who will REMOVE THEM..”did someone say “the consolidation of a drug cartel” must be a typo..lol

    “Irvine Maloney is feeling disgusted.
    2 hrs
    The Rhetoric this attorney’s general is expressing about bringing the Dems to justice is just politically and morally dishonest. And we should get ready for an early election.
    Fool me once thats my fault. Not twice though.
    Why not investigate the wicked land deals he’s involved in?
    Why not start at home with George Payne, or Mia involved in a six billion dollar deficit. The selling of the cave!
    The crime wave he can’t seem extinguish.
    The the consolidation of a Drug cartel under the guise of medical marijuana.

    What A joke he is.
    That kind of behavior is uncalled for. Since it can be done without setting the banner a fire”

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  • @ Enuff
    Do I look down on people with my glasses, or without? Plse grow up, you mite. You said:

    I am not wasting my time on the matter of whether the acquisition is for public purpose. The BU householders can continue to let Hal deceive them, or use common sense. On the value of the land, let me say it again, that land should be valued for public acquisition based on its existing use plus a premium, not alternative uses(Quote)

    Speak to your original statement, not some manufactured nonsense. In every country there is a form of land use. You said land should be valued based on its existing use. Thus the quaustinhal@excite.comestion. It is a bonkers idea.
    I took you on originally because it was clear you are suffering from the Bajan Condition. I was generous to you describing you as a lawyer, politician or senior civil servant. I now realise you are a nutcase. Plse give a legal definition of public interest? Still waiting.
    As to dining at the Shard, plse re-read what I said, or is that too much?

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  • peterlawrencethompson

    @Enuff
    The land is currently zoned for commercial use. The proposed Hyatt development is commercial use. There is no change of use. The regulations make no distinction between a warehouse and a hotel as commercial uses.

    The Mirchandani family should be paid fair market value without “plus a premium.” There is no rational argument for the Barbadian taxpayer paying them a premium. It is trivially easy to determine the fair market value of the land by looking at both recent transactions in the area and current listings for beachfront land on Carlisle Bay.

    It comes to about Bd$130/sq ft. Much more than the Bd$75/sq ft that they say that they have been offered, but much less than the $250/sq ft that they are demanding. So cut them a cheque for Bd$10.4 million and let’s move on.

    Both the Government and the Mirchandani family should stop their pathetic and completely insincere soap opera of public whining. It is unbecoming.

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  • Ah should ask lady Enuff…aka mite…

    which “drug cartels in Barbados are being consolidated under the guise of medical marijuana”…don’t be shy now, we know you know..

    ah hope Ram knows…and tells the WORLD..lol

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  • Thank you Peter, what premium what.

    A woman under financial stress and attempting to milk the transaction read taxpayers for all she is worth. After getting sweet from both parties for years.

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  • Bajans please be aware…i posted a video yesterday and was not sure which bakery, now we are, don’t want to get caught up in any LEPTO OUTBREAKS….one lawyer said he warned them about 2 months ago to get rid of Ram’s rats…

    “The Public Health inspectors that visited Ms. RAM need to visit Purity Bakeries ASAP.”

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  • “Bajans please be aware…i posted a video yesterday and was not sure which bakery, now we are”

    Three things.

    Check your sources
    That is an old video, old news
    It is not Purity

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  • David and PLT
    I was being kind with the premium in the context of alternative use argument as must be the basis for Ms.Ram’s demand. I am however glad both of you don’t even think she should get a premium. I have no argument on this one…none!

    Hal
    “So, if the property is left unused, or land vacant, then the value will be nothing plus a premium (ie a tip)?”

    The above are your words. Now if that statement ain’t the height of ignorance I don’t know what is. The fact is vacant land has an existing use value, I never said improved value. Residential land is residential whether it’s vacant or developed, when developed that’s when improved value comes in. Ms.Ram is not seeking money based on a run down warehouse, she is thinking hotdl use i.e. alternative use. Anyhow, I done with you. You know everything about nothing, including property valuation and financial viability in property development.

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  • I don’t have to check any sources, a lawyer AND OTHERS are on FB as you type nonsense speaking about it..

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  • You need to go an check it out instead of trying a cover up before you get an outbreak to kill thousands..

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  • @ Enuff

    ON THE VALUE OF THE LAND, LET ME SAY IT AGAIN, THE LAND SHOULD BE VALUED FOR PUBLIC ACQUISITION ON ITS EXISTING USE, PLUS A PREMIUM, NOT ALTERNATIVE USES…(Quote)

    Who is the clever person who wrote the above? My question was, if the property was not in use – ie there was no use residentially or commercially – then what is the value of the property?
    If I am mistaken, my apologies. I have problem with understanding this English language and these technical matters.

    Like

  • peterlawrencethompson

    @Enuff
    “… Ms.Ram is not seeking money based on a run down warehouse, she is thinking hotel use i.e. alternative use.”
    ++++++++++++++++
    Both warehouse and hotel are commercial use, so there is no “alternative use” coming into play.

    Like

  • Vincent Codrington

    I am no Land Valuation expert but the local practice born of English practice is the current value of adjacent properties. This is generally evidenced by the last/recent sale price of adjacent properties. For tax purposes properties are valued lower than the market price. They are both negotiable.

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  • For the ignoramuses who love to cover up crimes to cost people their lives, there are posts up to 3 minutes ago which i have not posted… the same bakery is still being named on FB….stop using your petty ignorance to cover up things that can cause viral death…..there is a very good reason for naming the bakery….it’s the same way all you idiots covered up for Ram for over 4 decades and look how well that worked out, the idiot mind will never learn.

    “Mark Adamson Greetings, Douglas….I would hope that environmental health officers and food safety officers have been doing so…..and regularly too…

    · Reply · 3h
    DarthPhilfius Maximus You mean like how they regularly visited Furniture Ltd?

    Haha
    · Reply · 3h
    Julieann Greene W T H

    · Reply · 3h · Edited
    Fitz Dee A great on to you David

    · Reply · 2h
    Roland Clarke Douglas Trotman, you actually named the bakery! Wow!
    1

    · Reply · 2h
    Violet B Lenman My will be glad that’s something stop me from eating bread thanks to this post now something about souse.”

    Like

  • For the ignoramuses who love to cover up crimes to cost people their lives, there are posts up to 3 minutes ago which i have not posted… the same bakery is still being named on FB….stop using your petty ignorance to cover up things that can cause viral death…..there is a very good reason for naming the bakery

    Three things

    Facebook is not a source
    Facebook is not a source
    Facebook is not a source

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  • Being ignorant is also not a source, no lawyer is going to EXPOSE ANYTHING ON FACEBOOK WITHOUT GOOD REASON…where do yall get ya reasoning skills….surely not from those who rob the country and people i hope..

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  • Let me get this wrong, you the chief person who says do not trust lawyers is now using a lawyer’s postings on facebook of all places as proof

    I know we are supposed to ignore you, but this one was too good to let it slide

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  • @ Vincent

    The valuation for this piece of land is a tricky one. Yes you are correct the usual way of valuing a lot is based on the sales price of lots on the same strip, but they are exceptions.

    For Instance suppose 2 large west coast homes had a small piece of land between them with a “brek down ” chattel house on it. Do you think that chattel house would sell for the same as a similar one a mile down the road with Bush on either side?

    So we now enter the grey world of improved value added as a result of neighbouring entities, or market forces and planned land use. Rams argument will be if government didn’t act as property broker they could of gotten more on the open market. Question is what precedence will this set going forward on free market forces if they can be overridden now it would appear by government acquisition.

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  • “I know we are supposed to ignore you, but this one was too good to let it slide”

    thanks for allowing me to highlight the idiocy that breeds thieves like Ram and bizzy and cow and every lowlife that has robbed the populi and allowed the country to sink to it’s knees.

    I have some homework for you, find the comment where i have ever said that if anyone, including a lawyer says there is a rat infestation in a bakery …that you should say they are lying…..and ignore them…i could swear that the distrust of lawyers has to do with people’s estates, money and personal injury cases…but please indulge m e and go right ahead and find where the distrust of lawyers is supposed to be applied to public health warnings..

    the education system could do with a massive upgrade and you are living proof.

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  • If a Hotel can be defined as public purpose
    Then all land or property lives under a threat as defined by govt for “public use” as in the flimsy definition basically for Hotel use

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  • But wait…yardfowls are supposed to ignore me BUT cannot stop reading my posts…lol

    yall really want chasing off the island…not fit for purpose…i would be ashamed to tell anyone that i knew any of you.

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  • Also the valuation of land can be based on location
    In this case the location is a valuable given that it is situated on what can be considered a prime location in the heart of downtown close to a heritage site and most importantly considered beachfront property
    I envision that when Mrs. Ram bought that property her mindset might have thinking she struck gold

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  • It might take ya a while to realize that the one….a lawyer alerting the public to a health hazard…HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OTHER…lawyers who steal estates, land money and compensations….that is why am speeding it up for ya, won’t want it to take ya a whole week to come to that realization.

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  • Vincent Codrington

    John A at 1:24 PM

    We are not valuing the buildings . We are valuing the land. Mrs Ram property is a land acquisition. The warehouse is another matter. The dispute is not about the warehouse. You will notice that on your land tax bill, the land values and the improved values are different. The improved value include buildings which also have a method of valuation. The latter is based on state, age and quality of materials etc. These are fairly objective and quantifiable.

    Future use/ value is a red herring. One cannot value ones property on future values. The future values are a creation of the developer who is trying to purchase the present land from you. What non sense ?

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  • Two comments.
    I have heard a very crude market price. The market price is what someone is willing to pay.
    @John A.
    Good point. The market price of a chattel house between two fine homes might just be what one of the owners would be willing to pay to get the person out of there or what someone might be willing to pay to get in the neighborhood.

    Mariposa restated it as “location”

    Liked by 1 person

  • @Vincent

    Vincent you can not fix a value based on a warehouse or a commercial rate. It is prime beach front land with its value based in real terms on the going rate per sq ft for beach front land. Its that simple. Truth is if market forces were allowed to play out instead of government acting as a property broker, that is exactly what would of happened.

    As for my point being nonesence, you want me to give you a few addresses on the west coast where small slivers of land with old wood houses on them, sold for 2 and a half times market value because the wealthy foreign neighbours wanted the land? I could start at Mullins and give you addresses as far South as Paradise if you need them.

    That is how market forces work when there is no government interference.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @Vincent

    Are you sure it is only the land informing the offer price?

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  • @ Vincent

    I going give you one example of what I speak from knowledge.

    In 2006 a piece of west coast beach land of 2900 sq ft with a brek down chattel house and nuff bush, sold for $800,000 bds because it’s wealthy neighbour wanted it for expansion of their home.

    That was $275 sq ft back then. Now admittedly this was not a norm but several deals similar to this went down on that coast. It’s about the buyers desire to acquire the land and what he thinks it will do for his investment that drives the offer price.

    Liked by 1 person

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ John A

    You are conflating two issues both of which in principle we agree.
    1. GoB should not attempt to assist the eventual developers and;
    2. Market forces ,what ever the drivers, decide the price .

    The minutiae is where we are getting our knickers in a twist . Or in Enuffs figurative language, our BVDs are at our ankles.

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  • “It comes to about Bd$130/sq ft. Much more than the Bd$75/sq ft that they say that they have been offered, but much less than the $250/sq ft that they are demanding. So cut them a cheque for Bd$10.4 million and let’s move on.”

    Amen.

    However, this bs of a developer getting the Government to do its dirty work, needs to stop. The most startling info in the entire proceeding, was when I learned the developer doesn’t even own, the lot adjacent to Mirchandani? What do they own? Ideas? or the politicians?

    Liked by 1 person

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ David Bu at 2:09 PM

    If you have inside information, please share it with fellow bloggers. As you know, I am not allowed to use inside information for my personal advantage. It is considered unethical. Ha! Ha! Ha!

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  • @Northern

    Exactly the point. Government have no right dictating prices. Only thing that does that is market forces and project viability.

    It’s not just beach front either. I remember when Warrens Industrial Estate was first offered for sale. The lot price was $1.50 a sq ft. By the time Simpson Motors built it cleared $3.

    Liked by 1 person

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ NO at 2:25 PM

    Whose quotation is that? So the fair value is $130 per sq ft? Why should the taxpayers pay more?

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  • Vincent Codrington

    @ David BU

    We are learning a very valuable lesson in Macroeconomics through this post. Public policy should be one of keeping prices down. Creating a bubble in the real Estate market is likely to cause problems for the entire economy farther down the road. This is also a channel for creating social and economic inequality. Is the GoB assisting this process unwittingly?

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  • peterlawrencethompson

    @Vincent
    “Whose quotation is that? So the fair value is $130 per sq ft?”
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    That is my valuation arrived at by the very simple process of looking at the listed asking price of beachfront lots on Carlisle Bay that are currently for sale on the open market.

    Liked by 1 person

  • peterlawrencethompson

    @NorthernObserver
    “… the developer doesn’t even own, the lot adjacent…”
    ++++++++++++++
    The adjacent lot where the Harbour Police used to be is owned by the people of Barbados. The Mirchandani lot is now also owned by the people of Barbados.

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  • “What do they own? Ideas? or the politicians?”

    ah…now we are getting somewhere.

    is it not a crying shame that the world is watching this play out..

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  • @ Vincent.

    Now now don’t go there. Are you saying suppressing market value is a good thing then? So next time government has a property for sale can i offer them a price based on an rat infested old building? No please. Or next time some foreign developer wants to buy a bajan property should he go to the newly formed ” national reality pricing board” for an “intervention”?

    The question we must ask is what is the square footage of the land on which the building sits? Secondly the developer must then take that value and add to it what having it will do to the value of his development. Based on those 2 figures he then can make an offer.

    You see government better realise what good for the goose good for the gander. The next time they have a property to sell I hope when their approach of valuation is used on them, they say God Save the Queen and take the offer.

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  • Also based on governments way of valuation will we all receive land tax bills in 2020 showing drastic reductions from last year?

    Wunna hold you breath for dat one. Lol

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  • @PLT
    yes, you kindly explained that to me/us earlier. I was well aware it was where the Harbour Police once were. I assumed (incorrectly) the developers had acquired this property. I mean, if the GoB via Gems can sell Blue Horizon for $5M (memory says they paid Worme more), then they can surely have sold the old Harbour Police lot ?
    A golden rule of development is you acquire your footprint BEFORE you expose your plans. The entire process is somewhat baffling. Given the rather complicated relationships between a group of Barbadians, it is the same names which keep popping up. The money exists to reportedly buy Four Season lands, and yet for a fraction of that, the lands on Bay St are not acquired?

    @VC
    I guess you saw @PLT’s response. The quoted number came from him, a number he quoted before after the recent public meeting.

    Liked by 1 person

  • “I mean, if the GoB via Gems can sell Blue Horizon for $5M (memory says they paid Worme more),”

    which proves beyond a doubt that they ARE ALL OWNED by minorities who now have a contract to build prisons to lock up the people …all of whom should be in the prison themselves..

    an offer was made to purchase Blue Horizon for 11 million dollars i believe, but the offer was refused to sell it to the crooks for 5 million, less than half of it’s market value…who the hell does that…i will tell you…house negros owned by minority criminals….who don’t care that the asset belongs to taxpayers and not either of these criminals..

    Like

  • @Vincent

    You may aware but the real estate market in Barbados is a bubble; artificially inflated.

    Like

  • @Vincent

    Yes we know, saw how you sidestepped the IMF on the second floor.

    Like

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ PLT
    @ NO

    What can I say?

    Like

  • @Vincent

    Listen take a tea break and let the pitch cool down!😊

    Like

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ David BU at 3 :39 PM

    My cricket coach Georgie P. advised me not to go after no balls. Last time the IMF was in Barbados he took up residence at MoF. This time around I think it is safer to locate them in the centre of our historic city. Locating them at Bay Street may inspire them to recommend change of use to a Brand Name Hotel . You do not want that do you?

    Like

  • @Vincent

    The more relevant analogy is not to hook a bodyline bouncer.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @VC
    based on @David’s comment? You are a master of the sidestep shuffle? A confusion of macro and micro?

    Liked by 1 person

  • The comments by the BU maguffees about this Mirchandani Government concatenation is entertaining.

    Government is acquiring ( buying ) the property to facilitate the construction of a Hotel by a PRIVATE developer.

    Mirchandani should be paid market value for the property. She should also be paid 3 to 5 years of the profits she would

    have made if her business had continued.

    She would have to provide audited financial statements for the last 5 years.

    buh doan mine me. I does just write discombobulate nonsense an use big words that I doan really know wha duh mean.

    Like

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ Hants

    You are doing quite well in my opinion. Understanding the understated issues is the key.

    Like

  • @ Hants December 6, 2019 5:02 PM
    “She would have to provide audited financial statements for the last 5 years.”
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Nice one there Hants!
    We can always depend on you to ‘think outside the box’ to find ‘magic’ solutions to problems considered intractable by the ‘locals’.

    All “She” has to do is to engage the services of the same audit firm which provided auditing and other professional services to the Barbados-based CLICO operations!

    And by an unseen wave of an underhand wand that ‘ratty’ business in Liquidation would show massive but ‘untaxed’ super profits for the past 10 years.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @Miller

    Blaire Haynes is dead.

    Like

  • If the Hyatt is built
    There is a high possibility with a given that property value within that corridor would increase
    Also including foreign investors falling over each other to buy old dilapidated houses just to get their hands on the landspace to further invest in a marketing strategy that would bring tourist to the island
    However from my vantage point the developer having to redesign the style of the Hyatt would not sit well with the management or the shareholders
    Presently time is of essence for the developer to have a plausible design which the Hyatt board would approved
    Until then barbados might be on a losing well of a project that could have create a sizeable amount of growth for the country long term

    Like

  • “My question was, if the property was not in use – ie there was no use residentially or commercially – then what is the value of the property?”

    If your above premise made sense and were logical, people who own vacant property would not pay land taxes. You are clearly interpreting use literally, rather than accepting that use is an assigned status. Hence, one building a house on commercial land does not automatically change the assigned use to residential just
    because a house is built on it. Somebody please come and rescue this expert.

    PLT
    Yea but in terms of return them ain’t equal. 🤣🤣

    Liked by 1 person

  • “It comes to about Bd$130/sq ft. Much more than the Bd$75/sq ft that they say that they have been offered, but much less than the $250/sq ft that they are demanding. So cut them a cheque for Bd$10.4 million and let’s move on.”

    ++++++++++++++++++++++

    The GOB is broke, the cheque will bounce!!

    Liked by 1 person

  • None of them seem to understand the power of social media, they all just want to cover up their crimes against bajans, them and their limited interlect enablers…

    human parasites and public nuisances.

    “Purity Bakeries seem not to understand the power of social media… or maybe they do! Whenever I post anything I give it great consideration as to how it will impact on persons involved.

    I received a “Cease and Desist” letter about an hour ago and and I responded immediately. At least they are addressing the matter… but in the wrong way. Everything I post IS “evidence”….

    Is there a potential harm to workers and to the public from consuming a product… only the health inspectors can tell.

    There is more as well… I am a former commercial customer of Purity Bakeries. What I have seen and heard over the last few months is of great concern to me. Truth trumps threats.

    I have dealt with it. Attacking me is a wrong move.

    I have extended my willingness to meet with Purity on Wednesday. Let us see what happens then.

    My post stays. The internet does not forgive.”

    Like

  • @ John December 6, 2019 7:13 PM

    The full impact of that ‘bouncing cheque’ can be reduced if there is a pari passu receipt of a cheque (of similar value) from the ‘real’ buyers of the land overpopulated by rats and formerly called ‘Ramlin’ instead of the storybook Hamelin.

    Who would the new owners engage as the Pied Piper to lure the rats into the sea?
    It has to be some con-artist dressed in ‘Red’ and belonging to the M&M finders & consultant fees fan club and blowing that ole Bajan tune: ‘One-smart yellow rat died in Two-smart red cat-hole’.

    Unless the GoB via its tourism investment agency BTII intends to lease the land to the ‘behind-the-scene’ real owners of the hotel property now using the marketing brand name “Hyatt House of God’s Light on the Bay”, we cannot see why- in the interest of speeding up the construction of the project (which has been in the pipeline for political generations)- an electronic transfer cannot be made to the Treasury, “shortly”, to use a Sinckler catchphrase.

    However, there only one adjustment which must be made to the value of that ‘digital’ payment.
    That is, the duties and taxes which ought to be paid for the period the Mercedes luxury vehicle was being driven around Barbados by a ghost working as the Sales Director for the same rechristened Hyatt Lighthouse operating only in the ‘directors’ mind and management of a board of scammers and colluding conmen holding high political office.

    Like

  • Miller…WHEN…the PEOPLE take away those diplomatic passports…it IS DONE…ticktock.

    Like

  • John
    December 6, 2019 7:13 PM

    “It comes to about Bd$130/sq ft. Much more than the Bd$75/sq ft that they say that they have been offered, but much less than the $250/sq ft that they are demanding. So cut them a cheque for Bd$10.4 million and let’s move on.”
    ++++++++++++++++++++++

    The GOB is broke, the cheque will bounce!!

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    https://www.urbelislaw.com/embezzlement.html

    So who in the GOB is going to sign the cheque for $10.4 million?

    … and to top it all, the GOB is unconstitutional!!

    Like

  • @Enuff

    On the value of the land, let me say it again, that land should be valued for public acquisition based on its existing use plus a premium, not alternative uses. What was the site value and improved value on which the last land tax bill was based….(Quote)(Enuff)

    So, if the property is left unused, or land vacant, then the value will be nothing plus a premium (ie a tip)? Is that a valuation from the Barbados School of Estate Valuation?(Quote, Hal Austin)

    Hal
    “So, if the property is left unused, or land vacant, then the value will be nothing plus a premium (ie a tip)?”
    The above are your words. Now if that statement ain’t the height of ignorance I don’t know what is. The fact is vacant land has an existing use value, I never said improved value. Residential land is residential whether it’s vacant or developed, when developed that’s when improved value comes in. Ms.Ram is not seeking money based on a run down warehouse, she is thinking hotdl use i.e. alternative use. Anyhow, I done with you. You know everything about nothing, including property valuation and financial viability in property development.(Quote) (Enuff)

    “My question was, if the property was not in use – ie there was no use residentially or commercially – then what is the value of the property?”
    If your above premise made sense and were logical, people who own vacant property would not pay land taxes. You are clearly interpreting use literally, rather than accepting that use is an assigned status. Hence, one building a house on commercial land does not automatically change the assigned use to residential just
    because a house is built on it. Somebody please come and rescue this expert.(Quote) (Enuff)

    Now it is my fault for interpreting what you have written literally. Say what you mean in simple English. Is the existing value the market value or the value for taxation purposes? Spell it out.
    In this specific case, should the matter not be left to the two parties involved rather than government sticking its fat fingers in the matter and in the process abusing the process? I am still waiting for a legal definition of public interest.
    I am sure the all-white delegates at the conferences you chair have made it plain to you that you must say what you mean. Do not leave it to others to try to read your thinking..

    Liked by 1 person

  • Stuupse! What remains funny is that land is compulsory acquired in your non-failed state the UK for commercial purposes as part of regeneration programmes. Secondly, existing use value+ is also a concept written into UK guidance. Yet somehow both are wrong in Barbados. You are a shameless, bullshitter talking nonsense about abuse of power. Government intervening through land acquisition to facilitate private development in urban regeneration is standard practice. The BU household may continue to be hoodwinked by you, but not me. BUers should read the link below and note the compulsory acquisition includes facilitating the expansion of a shopping centre as part of the regeneration and the developers are private.
    https://www.barnet.gov.uk/news/cpo-decision-brent-cross-cricklewood-confirmed

    Like

  • @Enuff

    I got the measure of you. As it happens, I know Brent Cross very well, and from the period before it was built. In fact, I interviewed George Walker.
    Here is your Google in part. Tell ne the difference between that and the Ms Ram/Hyatt scheme? Still waiting for a legal definition of public interest. Cut out the abuse. It is a sign of weakness, not strength.

    The whole regeneration scheme will bring the following benefits:
    development of Brent Cross Shopping Centre with new and enlarged bus station
    around 7,500 new homes over the next 20 years, including affordable homes and replacement homes for the Whitefield Estate
    3.4 million square feet of workspace
    major upgrades to the local transport network, including building an additional Thameslink railway station and transport interchange linking to King’s Cross St Pancras in less than 15 minutes
    more than £400 million invested in transport infrastructure to provide new roads and increased capacity at key junctions;
    new bridges over the A406 North Circular and Midland Mainline to improve walking and cycling routes (the Living Bridge) connecting Brent Cross and Cricklewood communities
    creating a new town centre to the south of the North Circular with shops, cafes, restaurants and office space
    three new replacement schools (Claremont Primary School, Whitefield Secondary School and Mapledown Special Needs School)
    replacement Leisure Centre, new health centres, childcare facilities, neighbourhood police units and new community facilities
    21 acres of new open space walkways and improvement of existing open spaces
    new employment opportunities for local people (Quote)

    This is what we call urban regeneration. Not a single privately owned hotel.

    Liked by 1 person

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ Enuff at 10 :36 AM

    The referenced upload supports Hal’s argument of a public purpose. Urban development and redevelopment.

    Like

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ Hal

    We were probably keyboarding simultaneously.

    Like

  • @Vincent

    Do we have a list of the properties that were acquired in the UK example?

    Like

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ David BU

    Did you read the referenced document? There is enough information contained therein to convince me that any acquisition would be for a higher public/ social purpose. I do not need the minutiae. I too know the area.

    Like

  • @Vincent

    We are conflating several issues so that points are supported. All agree we need to improve the urban area. We will quibble about how until the cows come home.

    Like

  • @ Vincent

    I cannot understand what the discussion is about, but I am not surprised. It is so basic. It is what I call the Barbadian Condition – arguing for argument’s sake, or to prove a point.
    It is an inability to think of the moral hazard of compulsorily purchasing private property to hand over to a chosen private developer. Here is an example: I will tell the prime minister, get me a good spot in Broad Street and I will put millions in his/her UK bank account.
    The prime minister, usually the minister of planning, comes up with a bogus plan for the development of Broad Street, which includes the compulsory purchase. Bingo.
    A public interest must be clearly defined and so far we have not had one. In the Charles Herbert case, the DPP withdrew the case on the grounds of so-called public interest, but it was not defined and the court did not ask questions.
    Now we are told that Liquidation Centre has been compulsorily purchased for public purpose (in the public interest). Again, no definition has been given. In the background there is something about Urban Regeneration, but again not proposals have been published.
    Not surprisingly, our public debaters and academics have not put forward a definition or wider explanation. They talk as if we are all on the same page. I say no.
    It is an abuse of process for a government to compulsorily purchase a private property to hand over to another property developer for a private development.
    The onus is now on the government to tell us why this acquisition is a proper use of its powers. A proposed 12-hotel corridor is not an urban regeneration policy.
    As usual, instead of debating the issues, the BU loudmouths resort to personal abuse and hysteria. It is the outcome of learning by rote: once you have exhausted your arguments you throw a tantrum like a toddler.
    We know the prime minister is not one for details. Was this matter discussed in Cabinet, or did she consult @Enuff?

    Liked by 1 person

  • Ahem….. may I point out that one country is not like the other? What pertains in the UK will not bear any resemblance to what goes on in Bim? I looked out my window this am and it was sunny, others looked out their window in Bimshire and it was also sunny but those in Bim will have vastly different clothing options from my own.

    That simple analogy won’t pass muster with the high foreheads here but I am continuing to look out at the paw prints in the backyard. Wait is that the neighboring cat or did a coyote jump over the fence?

    Like

  • @ Hal
    Your endurance is commendable.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @ David December 7, 2019 11:05 AM

    BTW, Blogmaster, what’s the position with the ‘gutted’ Empire Building just a stone throw away from the now Liquidated Centre?

    Has it been sold and who is currently expressing an interest other than in turning it into a brewery for the ‘sophisticated’ drinkers of discerning taste?

    Why not turn it into a cannabis ‘cafe’ (with free WiFI and all) like the ones in Amsterdam?

    At least the Fire Service HQ is just a ‘stone(d) throw’ away in case there is too much smoking in the air.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @William

    What does your comment mean?

    Are you suggesting all views should not contend here?

    We are buffoons to have contrary positions?

    Like

  • Last we heard the brewery idea was declined by TP. Willing to be corrected.

    Like

  • @ William

    A cold weekend and I am at home alone. Makes a change from reading and TV.

    Liked by 1 person

  • I going ask the party loyalist to compare the below examples of where the acquisition act was used and then tell me which were for the betterment of the state and it’s people.

    The acquisition of land by Tom Adams to build the ABC Highway for all to benefit from.

    The acquisition of the land known as Greaves End for the construction of The Spring Garden for all to benefit from.

    The acquisition of parcels of land island wide for playing fields, Nation Housing etc. All of which Barbadians benefit from.

    Finally the purchase of a property so as to facilitate a deal between 2 private entities, where only the seller and developer will benefit from.

    I guess they will tell you a few maids and gardeners will get work. But wait didn’t I hear that the final reincarnation of this projected was to include ” Privately owned units?” So will it not be at the discretion of these owners to decide if they want to rent theirs or not?

    Anyhow that was in fine print so let we ignore that and say all is well in paradise.

    Like

  • @John A

    Who benifited from purchasing lots along the highway before it was developed? Do not go there John A.

    Like

  • @ John A December 7, 2019 12:06 PM

    There is one outstanding factor which significantly marks the difference between the first three acquisitions and the last one on your list.

    That is one of funding. The first 3 were financed by way of loans which were repaid out of the public purse.

    The last one is a figment of MM’s imagination. But there is every chance that the government via the NIS might end up with a genuine white elephant on its books and, just like the CLICO assets, would be ‘morphed’ to form another GEM of a investment disaster sitting in the taxpayers’ shaky lap already overburdened by BERT.

    Liked by 1 person

  • David that is how it is supposed to work. The state puts in the infrastructure and then the economy expands around it based on private sector activity between sellers and buyers. Of course then the state gets the transfer tax on the sales along with benefiting from being able to charge increased land taxes on the improved value of the land being sold.

    What is not clear about that?

    Liked by 1 person

  • When were the lots purchased on the ridge? When the land was purchased the announcement about the ABC highway was made public?

    Like

  • @ Miller.

    Lord don’t tell me the default plan is the NIS piggy bank once more! In the words of a learned philosopher the NIS nipples will surely be sore if that was to occur (again).

    Liked by 1 person

  • On what basis would the government use NIS funds to build the hotel. Let us keep the discisoat a sensible level.

    Like

  • @ David
    I think @ Hal got the inference. If you didn’t get it , I understand. By now those who are genuinely concerned about Barbados have been identified. There are others who will never see anything beyond George and Roebuck Streets to engage them calls for commendable endurance.
    Hal has certainly demonstrated such endurance. I therefore as is my right chose to offer him a complement. As is their right to never see anything beyond George and Roebuck Streets.
    I hope you get it if not no problem. All comments are welcomed as is your philosophy on occasion.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @ David.

    All over the world that is how the system works. Government puts in the infrastructure then private enterprise fuels the growth. The state then benefits in the form of increased land taxes, Vat on building materials and everything associated with economic activity.

    For example years ago when the Black Rock road was rebuilt do you know economic activity increased substantially? But the following year land taxes also increased as well..

    Liked by 1 person

  • @ William

    You are very kind.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @ December 7, 2019 12:34 PM

    Given the ‘cloud of secrecy’ surrounding the money behind the construction of the many incarnations of Hyatt and the subsequent compulsory land acquisition by the government of additional land space to facilitate a bigger behemoth one can only conclude that the government would conduct another raid on the country’s piggy bank as it did with the All Seasons fiasco at Paradise.

    Don’t you think- in the interest of transparency and professional decency and in order to stymie the guessing game and rumour mongering- the source(s) of funds for such a massively important project of such national economic game-changing significance for a dying city ought to be identified?

    Supposed it is from laundry-cleaned money?

    We know that of Beaches and even that of the Wyndham currently in ICU. Why not the Hyatt whatever? What’s so secret about a hotel carrying the name of God’s Light?

    Liked by 1 person

  • @ David

    Let me give you an example of where the acquisition act would have my support.

    Let us say somewhere off the ABC Highway land was acquired to provide a farmers market for Bajans to bring their produce to sell to the public, that I would support. I would do so for 2 reasons. Firstly it will give Bajans access to self employment. Secondly it would reduce our import bill while at the same time offering the consumer better prices to the Super Market, as their retail mark up would not be a factor at the farmers market.

    That my friend is an example of land acquisition benefiting the state and the Bajan tax payer at the same time. After all isn’t a USD saved on food import the same as as USD spent by a tourist in the final equation?

    Like

  • @John A

    The point you missed is as per usual many private people benefited from the construction of the highway before it was made public. Also there was strident opposition to its construction, same as today.

    Finally we will have our different interpretations of regeneration, physical development or whatever we want to call it.

    Like

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