Comment posted by John A @2019/05/29 at 5:31 pm
…I come home this evening to find a Land tax bill in my mail box for the same amount I paid last year for a 12 month period, however this bill only covering the period from the last bill till now which is only roughly 7 months. So can you tell me if I should go to the Fair Trading Comission and lodge a complaint for receiving a bill for a calender year but only covering a 7 month period?
I mean I ain t got no alphabet behind my name but somehow to pay 12 months in land rental to the government for only 7 months of occupancy seem wrong to me.
Help advise a small man what to do here fellers cause the way I see it this tax period I either getting double bill per months of occupancy, or I get a 50 percent in land tax based on me paying in 7 months what I paid in 12 last year.
So wait next year bill going come out in February then and we going pay a full land tax amount for 8 months next year too?…
Comment posted by Gabriel @ 2019/05/29 at 10:00 pm
Your point is well made.The tax demand is for the Financial Year 2019-20 so that Finance would proffer that the payment can be demanded anytime after April 2019 but in that event the next payment should not be due until April 2020,one year after as you have pointed out.I was around long enough to know that these tax bills offered a 10% discount in the first instance usually in November and a 5% discount in the second instance in December before the full amount is due and payable.Now it’s a 5% discount only after which the full amount is demanded.So we have seen significant changes in the Tax Demand Notice without so much as a whimper from Mr Ryan Straughan. (1)A big increase,(2)less discount for prompt payment and (3)less than a calendar year elapsing before demanding the following year’s payment.Property owners are sitting ducks as are the PAYE class.
Two Land Tax Bills in Eight Months
252 responses to “Two Land Tax Bills in Eight Months”
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David what I would respectfully suggest is that we open a discussion with the below title.
DIRECT TAXATION VS INDIRECT TAXATION AND THEIR EFFECT ON ECONOMIC GROWTH
That way I am sure Hall and Vincent would agree all can then have a discussion focused on sharing their views on alternatives and their effect.
If this is done I am sure Jeremy and Walter would be willing to come in and add to this discussion. We need to focus on one issue and help people to see it, then move to another.
As I said that’s just my view I don’t know how the guys would feel about it..
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@Artax
It is irrelevant at this stage. We have signed on to BERT and targets must be met.
Yes the printing of the money kicked the van down the road.
@Vincent
We have made our beds and we have to do what? No pain no gain.
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@ John A
The sad thing is that David BU, our chairman, thinks his waffle is rational and makes economic (and political) sense. Fortunately, more economically literate people keep off contributing to BU, with one or two exceptions.
@John A, he is now on about producing a blueprint after one year. So as not to offend his fan club, I will avoid that question. -
Foreign Reserves is to a country what a savings account is to an individual. It is a static photo of the financial position of both at a PARTICULAR POINT in time. Before and after that photo there are fluctuations in that figure/metric because of daily international inflows and outflows. There was a point in time in the early 1990s when Barbados had official Foreign Reserves of 2 and a half weeks of imports. The BLP came into office with a ratio much larger than this.
What does this metric really mean in terms of the health of the Barbados economy? Does it signal a rush to debt default? -
Hal sooner or later we all have to accept that politics can not dictate economic outcome. I don’t have a problem with anyone who wants to tow the party line once it is supported by facts. I just feel we need to try and focus discussions a bit more and not be all over the field trying to kick the ball. I also feel to arrive at alternatives we need to discuss their effect on the economy, as like it or not THAT is the destination.
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@ David at 11 :38 AM
I and thousands of other Barbadians did not make this bed and we do not /cannot sleep in it. Moreover, we do not intend to bear the pain. We see no gain. Especially after that piece of wool Pachalacha tried yesterday. -
@ John A at 11 :54 AM
You have been on BU long enough to notice that there is no real intention to discuss dispassionately the real issues.
I have a theory which I am currently testing. It is tracking nicely so far. -
Vincent I second and third that. The rambling that tried to past for explanation yesterday was pitifull. This approach of Tax to Death is a dismal one and will only cause further contraction in the economy. From the time they moved from indirect to direct taxation, as opposed to fixing the indirect ones like VAT, the outcome was inevitable.
Also indirect taxation allows money to filter through the economy where as direct is taken at source, hence does not encourage economic activity.
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What’s the back story? Did the Tax year change or are we so punching above our weight that we have reduced a year to eight months? That’s not even enough time to have a baby (well unless you are a hippo 😊).
I heard through the grapevine that the Gov’t is going to foot part of the cost of your travel to “We Gatherin” in 2020 if you haven’t been to Bim in X number of years and that sounds preposterous so I am asking if that bit of info is true. I don’t want to spread any falsehoods about the Gov’t. but if they spreading the wealth I want my piece of the action even though I come down at least once or twice a year.
Perhaps the Gov’t could get Zorro and Fowl to update this for “We Gatherin”
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@ John A
Ah, gotcha. Contraction will lead to growth by magic. Can’t you see how voodoo economics work?
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Sergeant no the tax year still runs to March 31st, what they did however was move the tax bill forward a few months to try a cash grab. So what we have is a case where the period between the last land tax discount date and this one is only 8 or 9 months not 12. Plus we had in some cases a 56% increase on some properties to go with the shorter period hence creating a cash flow issue for all involved.
Can’t help you on the free ticket to Bim maybe David can advise.
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Hal i got a friend from Haiti you want me shout him and ask if he could come and bless the budget with some. Lol
He in Florida now but might be able to send we a spell via email!
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@Vincent
Then do not sleep in it.
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Seriously though certain decisions have a predictable and unquestionable effect on economic outcome. You can’t change it or bend it for any purpose. It’s like heating water leads to it getting hotter.
Action vs outcome.
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@Vincent
With your training why not tell us what a low foreign reserves mean especially if in decline for every year the last government was in office. Also tell us in the period you referred to when the reserves dipped to a dangerous level what was the debt service commitment.
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Barbados is a country that has not been earning enough foreign exchange to pay its bills for a long time. There is a price that a country or individual will have to pay if you spend $150 per month if you are earning $100 per month. Both on the forex earning and domestic we have been falling short.
There is a relationship with the conspicuous consumption and the fact we import almost everything that we consume. This is a 101 preamble to debunk some of the esoteric bullshit being posted to this blog.
Barbadians will have to ask are we able to earn enough, produce more efficiently to maintain a standard of living we have become addicted or …
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@ John A
Nah. He is too far. Just ask David BU instead. I am so glad I am not a teacher. Can you see how he raises the conventional nonsense about foreign reserves again. it is an obsession, an answer to their pray. Speaking in tongues.
Never an analysis, always statements, recitations, mantras. So you cannot have a proper debate because they only repeat the mantras as if in a trance – straight out of 1984. I grew up in Sister Waithe’s church and fully understand what it means to be in the power.
But David is not the only one. A few weeks ago a bright spark on BU said that the Reagan/Thatcher monetarist policies grew out of Hayek’s Austrian economics.
If you want to see idiocy compounded just look at the request/statement: that asking for a blue print for urban regeneration after a year is unreasonable, this a few hours after the prime minister announced the plan on a public platform.
This is Barbados in 2019. Can you believe it? -
Hal i said yesterday to one that I had a parrot that knew over 50 words but could not explain the meaning of one.
To read and not comprehend how what is read applies to reality is a popular problem. People will always look for issues to side track discussion and that is why I said in my thread at the top of the page, we need to identify a topic explore it fully and factually and not deflect on it or introduce other non related issues. Whether that suggestion will see the day of light is left to be seen.
I can tell you though if it isn’t, those that seek open discussion will just become frustrated and drop out the discussion.
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I will give you this scenario and just think on it
TAXATION IS LIKE STORE PRICES
Before you say foolishness follow this logic. If you have a store and business is slow would you carry up prices and drive business slower or would you ease prices thus spurring increased traffic in the store and greater economic activity?
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@ David Bu
I agree there is plenty of esoteric bull shit being posted on the blog. What we cannot agree on is the source.
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Good one Vincent.Lol
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Barbados is a country that has not been earning enough foreign exchange to pay its bills for a long time. There is a price that a country or individual will have to pay if you spend $150 per month if you are earning $100 per month. Both on the forex earning and domestic we have been falling short.
There is a relationship with the conspicuous consumption and the fact we import almost everything that we consume. This is a 101 preamble to debunk some of the esoteric bullshit being posted to this blog.
Barbadians will have to ask are we able to earn enough, produce more efficiently to maintain a standard of living we have become addicted or …(Quote)Plse stop it. This is madness. Why is he saying this nonsense? I do not believe in provocation, in playing so-called Devil’s advocate. This is lunacy.
I am out of this discussion. I did not spend all my time with head buried in books and listening to aged men and women talking about the finer points of economics to tolerate this stupidity when I do not have to. -
Hal one can only try! David the discussion is worth having but to have it under this blog is not fair to those that may want to take part in it as it has now gone into a totally different direction hence may be overlooked by many who came earlier for the land tax discussion. I still feel that what is at the core of our problem is the shift from indirect taxation to direct without addressing any of the problems of the former such as VAT and the collection of taxes at the port of entry.
But as I said that is a discussion for another time as I will also state that had they been addressed first the need for such harsh austerity would be unnecessary.
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David also I would suggest to you that people want to discuss these issues just look at the visits and comments threads topics like this get well into the hundreds when others struggle to clear 50 comments.
Anyhow your Blog and your call my friend.
Vincent nice chatting as usual catch you later.
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Hants June 2, 2019 7:51 PM
@ Vincent Codrington,
Abrahams disclosed that the Barbados Water Authority has signed a contract with Ionics Freshwater Ltd to bolster the depleted water system.
https://barbadostoday.bb/2019/06/02/relief-coming-for-water-scarce-st-thomas/
Vincent Codrington June 2, 2019 8:26 PM
So it is more economical to desalinize water than to stem the leaks of fresh water from the system? And to contain
the increase in demand on the current supply?David June 2, 2019 8:31 PM
@Vincent
You will recall the mains replacement project was in limbo for many years because the BWA and BWU were unable to close a labour agreement. Our inability to efficiently manage and be strategic is a worry.
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If the terms were HALF as favourable to the poor black workers as they are likely to be to Buzzy, I bet a labour agreement would be easily closed.
#theresaholeinthebucket
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Bizzy
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@ John A
Thanks for attempting to treat with the issues and your insightful interventions.
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@ Vincent.
Thank you, another time we must discuss the pros and cons of direct taxation vs indirect taxation and their net effect on the economy.
If we can throw the facts out there and get people thinking, maybe even some of the ” most hard headed ” bloggers might start thinking.
I notice you fire a shot earlier that went right over a fellow head! Lol
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While you are having your high falutin’ economic discussions remember to address the elephant in the room. Unless you do so, your high falutin’ ideas will amount to nothing.
There is more than economics to consider. Economic policy does not occur in a vacuum.
And please, remember that people do not like being talked down to or you will chase people away from the blog.
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Donna I don’t think anyone will get anywhere doing that. I just think we need to ventilate things that are said to the public.
In other words when we are told ” a decision has been taken to move more to direct taxation” what does that mean to the public?
How does that affect disposable income and the circulation of money in the economy as opposed to indirect taxation?
I don’t think we can be accused of trying to have high faulutin (good old bajan parlance) conversations even on this thread here. In my comments I always try to keep it simple and welcome all views be they B, D or otherwise. So if we ever have that discussion come and share your views too!
Besides you dont come across as someone who would drink the Koolaid because you are told to do so. Lol
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@John A
How practical is discussing direct taxation in the manner you suggest without giving the big picture context read we need to improve productivity and earn more? Can we support present consumption behavior etc. we want to revamp education system and not our behaviours? Donna is so right.
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No one said Donna’ s point is not going to be a part of the conversation but before we can discuss how we spend it, we first have to discuss which option will put the most of it in our hands to spend. Or are you saying we are so incapable of managing our money that government will take it directly from us before it reaches our pockets first?
I will say something now and I defy any to state it incorrect.
If we had addressed our indirect taxation methods like VAT and customs collection first, the level of austerity that was introduced could of been way less severe.
In other words if customs charged the full vat on everything including the true value of the 40,000 barrels entering the country and the massive duffle bags sailing through the airport on a weekend from Miami and New York, dont you think that would help their thirst for revenue?
Secondly if the Vat Office got behind those that owed and started to collect on them you don’t think that would also help quench their need for revenue?
In other words instead of fixing the leaking old pipe we just keep leaving it as is and then try to collect the lost revenue with new taxes in a direct nature.
It’s like we losing 40 percent of our water in leaks so we pump 60 percent more through the pipes so as to allow for the 40% spillage.
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David dont get frighten about that conversation, then again it going bring alot of mismanagement and fear of confronting change to the discussion and some may not want that.
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@John A
Where will the taxation of consumables get you? Is this the system issue?
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David government needs revenue hence the increase bus fares, land tax bill increases, increase fuel cost etc ( direct taxation increases)
In the meantime we ignore massive amounts of uncollected revenue from VAT and Items being imported that are avoiding the duty charges at port of entry ( indirect taxation)
Our biggest struggle is local debt so Instead of crippling us with direct taxes get the indirect tax systems working.
After all they don’t call it Value Added Tax for nothing. Every transaction captures additional revenue for the state as it progresses via consumption.
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I am not a supporter of direct taxation as it does not allow money into the economy for circulation. Instead it removes it at source stifling growth and benefiting only the state.
VAT on the other hand by its very nature allows all that touch the product to make a few dollars, with the state benefiting every time up to and including when it’s sold to the final consumer.
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Our biggest problem is earning forex to pay for all that we import. Local dollars chase the goods we import. Around and around we go.
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No there is a balance that once obeyed ensures that does not happen. We chose to disobey the laws of balance when Sinkler decided to print money like rain. He then threw the balance off by creating a problem where too many bajan dollars were chasing too few USD. That is why we are here today. We put this island in a position where we took the demand for USD from what was a well protected formula tied to Bajan dollar circulation and turned it into a brek for yourself.
What the PM did is basically remove some of that paper from circulation by the local debt restructuring and hence restore supply and demand.
There is therefore no excuse to now not revert to indirect taxation and let the economy grow as the excessive local paper that was depleting the USD forex no longer is in circulation.
Of course I would like to see us just dolarise and be done!
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@John A
Why did Sincker have to print money like rain?
Why did foreign reserves trend down for every year he was MoF?
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He refused to listen to anyone from Jeremy to Arthur and everyone in between. He refused to restructure the civil service or do anything to rock the boat with elections.
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Anything this ugly crooked gnome George Payne involved is corrupt and should be ringing ALARM BELLS.
Now has the gall to say what they are doing with Hyatt is now an ongoing case of where the last DLP Government left off.
The same Maloney and DLP BLP said are so corrupt if it wasn’t so blatantly obvious the deviousness and stink one could laugh.
Are Bajan voters and followers of these 2 Political Parties so DAMN STUPID?????
More Crown land for Hyatt
Government is releasing more land on Lower Bay Street, St Michael, for the Hyatt Hotel development.
Minister of Housing and Lands George Payne introduced a resolution in the House of Assembly yesterday to vest another two parcels of Crown land in the Barbados Tourism Investment Inc. (BTII) to be subsequently leased or sold to Hyatt developer, Vision Development Inc.
The first, a 509 square metre parcel next door to Bethel Methodist Church and formerly occupied by the Government Electrical Engineering Department, is being provided for possible construction of a bridge to link the seaside Hyatt property to that area.
Payne informed the House that the developers had already obtained planning permission for that bridge, though he pointed out “it may not be necessary for this bridge as part of the project”.
But in the event it was needed, he said Cabinet had set down conditions for the developers, as had been drawn up by the previous Government, and which he outlined.
Among those proposals was the issuing of a licence to the developer for a term of 25 years, with an option to renew for a further 25 years; payment of an annual licence fee of $1 000 plus VAT with a review every five years, and the developer being responsible for the cost of construction and maintenance of the bridge.
He added the developer “should indemnify and keep the Crown harmless from all and any loss arising from the use of the bridge. The developer should be responsible to keep the bridge in repair and ensure the safety of all users in accordance with the laws of Barbados”.
In the case of the second parcel of land being vested in the BTII yesterday, Payne said that 69 square metres was part of the original 2 833 square metres which had already been vested in the BTII, “but it includes a drain, and it was felt that this drain should not have been included in the original vesting”. The St Andrew MP said since this piece of land “straddled” the property the developer had already purchased from DETCO Motors, “it is important that this area be acquired as well
“After the vesting, it will be sold to Visions as part of the (Hyatt) development,” he added. “I can’t stress too much this is a development which was formulated by the last administration and we are just continuing governance in this respect.” (GC)
https://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/240020/crown-land-hyatt
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Sweeping changes are on the horizon for Barbados’ education system, which will likely include the abolition of the controversial Common Entrance Examination,
https://barbadostoday.bb/2019/06/03/death-knell-sounded-for-common-entrance/
Hope they remember to thank Dame Billie Miller for the work she did circa 1982.
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Beware 30-nil thinking
The proverbial popping of champagne corks, the tumultuous adulation of the crowd and the scene of a sea of humanity clothed in red may have had a ring of inevitability to it all, given the historic events of May 24, 2018.
This was an anniversary celebration of an election in superlatives and precedents. The first woman and the first Independence baby boomer to lead a party into a general election emerged in command of an entire Parliament sans Opposition. All 30 seats.
This was not a general election but a generational election as young people voted in unprecedented numbers, not a few of them born in this century. Women turned out in historic numbers as well.
The Labour Party may with no little justification feel that its historic election is no less deserving of its place in the pantheon of electoral greatest hits than the BLP’s victory of 1976, the DLP’s of 1986 and the BLP’s 1999.
The campaign-style extravaganza, on a famed car park the Prime Minister teased, was about to be replaced by one of a raft of hotel developments along the urban corridor, was trademark BLP pomp and political pageantry at its classic election-winning best.
But it nonetheless struck a discordant note given the sobering and brutally painful times which this Government has been mandated to oversee.
The people of this nation made a profound statement on May 24, 2018, in handing Barbados’ Grand Old Party one-party Parliament. This is not one-party rule, even with its token Opposition seat.
No, we have not been here before with 30-nil. But we’ve been close enough in 1986 (24-3 to the DLP) and 1999 (28-2 to the BLP).
And we’ve been close enough with austerity measures, IMF programmes and threats to our way of life. But no, we have not quite been here before. Not this close to Greece.
The actions in Carlisle Car Park speak louder than rhetoric. The event still managed to become a tone-deaf anachronism given enormous pain being felt on servants of the State.
Perhaps the BLP should reserve its celebrations until the much-touted large scale investment unveiled on Sunday night actually arrived.
As the throngs of supporters wearing their “Mia Cares” t-shirts walked away from a car park, they got into vehicles which since midnight must consume the second-most expensive petrol in the world, at US 1.96 per litre.
This costly anomaly long precedes the addition of road tax to the fuel taxes announced last year.
Just as the previous administration did, some taxes are fixed and forgotten. The removal of NSRL was, we submit, low-hanging fruit in Government’s revenue-grabbing tree.
Taxation, piled on by Chris Sinckler under the Democratic Labour Party, remains a significant part of the price of petrol in this country, now on par with oil-producing Norway.
The Government urges other Caribbean countries to support LIAT while charging 60 cents on the dollar for every air ticket. Unchanged from the last administration.
The removal of virtually all income tax credits by the DLP, especially on mortgage interest, home improvement, even doctor’s visits, have sunk middle-class fortunes even lower, even with modest adjustments of tax bands.
But water bills, raised by over 60 per cent by the last government, have since been doubled under the current regime. In the meantime, the thing our taxes pay for – garbage collection – is even harder to come by.
And bus fares have shot up by 75 per cent, while bus service remains patchy at best, absent at worst, limiting the capacity of working Barbadians to hold on to the jobs they have been able to earn.
And yes, thousands of people are out of the jobs they once held in the public sector.
The BLP would do well to rely on typically Barbadian values of pragmatism and tempered enthusiasm given the pain of those whose situation may not be their own fault but are now our collective responsibility.
This brings us to a final caution about dissenting voices. If we are to take the Prime Minister’s encouraging declaration, “all hands on deck”, then voices of disagreement should be embraced by the administration.
They are other perspectives worthy of attention. The Government must not think itself in sole possession of truth even if it considers itself in possession of the facts. It must oppose efforts by underlings to squelch debate or worse, practice the politics of personal destruction.
https://barbadostoday.bb/2019/06/04/bteditorial-beware-30-nil-thinking/
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[…] – Vincent Codrington […]
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According to an official Barbados Government Information Service notice, published at 12;06 today a customer (citizen? tax payer?) died in the land valuation section this morning so the 4th floor of the treasury Building is closed for the rest of the day. I hope that the new high tax bills are not killing the people from stress. I may not be able to pay all of mine this year either. But if i don’t have the money, I don’t have the money. Nobody a’int killing me. Neither this government, nor any subsequent one. If the government can’t get all from me this year or in the next few years then they can collect after I am dead, BUT I am not planning on dying anytime soon. And no I won’t plan to take the land with me when I die. It will still be there for the government to do whatever it feels like with it.
We brought NOTHING into this world, and it is a certainty that we can take NOTHING out.
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According to Attorney General Dale Marshall, Government has been making plans to bring investigators from overseas to look into the ill-gotten gains of some, who served in the country’s highest offices over the last ten years.
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Well, the land tax bills have hit some people in ottawa already and they are not happy. not only have the taxes increased, but the payment date is now July. wuhloss. I aint get mine yet, but i only gine pay in october when it should be due.
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Well folks, my tax bill arrived here in Canada this morning. it went up by $250 and if i pay by july 26, it is reduced by $50. Well, i have always paid in US or Canadian to help the reserves. however, seeing that i have useless Bajan $$ in the bank down there, i will have my relative with signing authority pay it in useless Bajan $$ in october. That increase was too massive. it will break the back of the poor.
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@Dame Bajans..If you dont plan to pay in July 2019 to get 5% discount, you might as well pay before just before March 31 2020 with your useless Bajan $$$…why pay in October 2019?
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@yatinkiteasy
The due date on the previous bills were October. you mean it was only due the end of March? may as well let my money stay where it is. Thanks for the information.
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