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What is the Issue at the Crane Hotel Between Owner and Vendor?

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Some of us want to hear what are the real issues fueling the dispute between the owner of the Crane Resort and beach vendors. It is easy retreat to the emotional side of the issue to beat up on the White guy and shout ‘dah beach is mine’ but has the public been given all the facts around this issue? Clearly Doyle is a businessman and has a right to protect his multi million dollar  invest. And of course the beach vendors benefit from unrestricted access to our beaches.

Source: Facebook

Here is an interview the owner of the Crane Resort had with the Nation newspaper to present his side of the issue.

 

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131 responses to “What is the Issue at the Crane Hotel Between Owner and Vendor?”

  1. Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service Avatar
    Well Well & Cut N’ Paste At Your Service

    Doyle and Melnyk are playing games because they know the island has weak governments and weaker government ministers who dont have the ability or intellect.to set boundaries for minorities..

    Adriel Nitwit the joke cant even get the case with Melnyk to move forward and finish in the supreme court and he is the soon to be former attorney general…with his 9 years of doing nothing useful at the supreme court.

    Doyle is “suggesting” demanding the government do this and do that while he has stolen the vendor’s beach chairs and locked them away, like if his damn resort is not expensive enough and dont already make a ton of money, despite him trying to cut every corner. .

  2. lawson Avatar
    lawson

    if someone opened a fish barbeque on the beach in front of tapas it wouldnt be long before they were shut down . Access to beach doesnt mean encroachment on business. But bajans were the originators of the ME TOO movement ,whenever someone has a new idea, has worked hard to get it going and it looks like it is making some money it isnt long before it has been copied. Lets get real here Last I was at crane they had personnel raking the beach and some machine getting rid of seaweed . It costs money.

  3. David Avatar
    David

    The issue here calls for the government department responsible to rule on the matter. Take the emotional from the discussion. Like all issues in Barbados we will allow to drag.

  4. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Well Well & Cut N’ Paste At Your Service March 26, 2018 at 4:23 AM

    The man, like Jack, is only flexing his ‘tourism massa’ muscles to let Bajans like Gabby know who really is in control of your country and its extremely vulnerable economy so dependant on such a fickle industry that can be wiped out any day by an outbreak of some disease to make your flat island look like a banana republic hit by a category 5 hurricane.

    He is doing nothing more than what the likes of Butch, Baloney and Bjerkoffham have been doing by paying the politicians to suck from their financial pipe cocks.

    BTW, have you noticed how the economic debate is now shifted to need for Barbados to go to the IMF for balance of payment assistance?

    Again it has taken “foreigners” to tell these nitwits what was patently obvious from 4 years ago.

    The Barbados economy is up shit creek without an oar to paddle it out of the sewage it is now totally immersed.

    Every Tommy, Dickey and Henrietta calling themselves economists and financial doctors are advising the poor beleaguered loitering administration to head to the last remaining port of call called the IMF before the Fumbling captain of the RH SS DLP Barbados steers it straight onto the rocks economic meltdown as the foreign reserves disappear like the sea water before the arrival of a massive tsunami about to engulf poor Bim already flattened by a stink bomb of sewage.

  5. PoorPeacefulandPolitePensioner Avatar
    PoorPeacefulandPolitePensioner

    The public service and the pseudo-socialist labour parties for which Barbadians are being seriously overtaxed seem to want to discourage and eradicate all private investment in the country. It is nothing short of a collective paranoid schizophrenia. What has become of traditional Barbadian rationality? Where are you expecting the economy to end up?

  6. Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service Avatar
    Well Well & Cut N’ Paste At Your Service

    Miller…ah sick of dem..

    Had they taken that advice 3 years ago and accepted a decent IMF program, they would have emerged from that program and repaid the IMF, just like Antiqua did and already called the election….they are damned now..too coward and have to walk that long mile.

    I see bizzy “gimme 60 million dollars and the BWA for free” who thinks he owns the island saying to stop importing rubbish….where was he when we were giving that advice for years…his hardware imports a lot of junk too, wasting foreign exchange, so he should take his own advice.

    That is what the useless dummies of parliament like….to be dictated to by people who look nothing like them.

  7. Constant (Dreary) Bellend Avatar
    Constant (Dreary) Bellend

    What Brass Bowls What? Shite on de streets what shite brassy what?

    What never reada bok since skool what, murda what pitchfork wot?

  8. Bernard Codrington Avatar
    Bernard Codrington

    May I ask a rather stupid question? Is freedom of access to the beach the same as permission to set up a business on the said beach?

  9. Sargeant Avatar
    Sargeant

    Where is the interview?

  10. Simple Simon Avatar
    Simple Simon

    @Bernard Codrington March 26, 2018 at 1:06 PM “May I ask a rather stupid question? Is freedom of access to the beach the same as permission to set up a business on the said beach?”

    No. Freedom of access to the beach is not the same as permission to set up business on the beach.

    But let us not be disingenuous. The lady has been LEGALLY vending on the beach for how long? About 19 years?

    And the present owner or operator of the Crane has been operating his hotel there for how long?

    Can anybody tell be if the present owner or operator of the Crane Hotel came and found the vendor there? Can anyone tell me whether he agreed to buy/lease/run the hotel knowing that the vendor had her chairs set out there in PLAIN SIGHT?

    And whether or not the lady is vending on the Crane’s property—and it is not clear to me that the property belongs to the Crane—and not to me as a long time taxpayer in Barbados—can anybody enlighten me on the law of adverse possession?

    As you all know I am very simple so when you respond make it real real simple so simpletons like me can understand.

  11. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    @ Bernard Codrington,

    Did you know that the majority of hotels in Barbados set up their beach chairs for their guests

    on the ” public portion ( 30 metres above the high water mark )” of the beach in front of their

    hotels ?”

    While I support this as a ” necessary evil ” to support the tourist industry it would be prudent

    for government to ensure vendors are allowed to do the same adjacent to hotel properties.

  12. NorthernObserver Avatar
    NorthernObserver

    I am confused.
    Vending? referring to renting chairs/umbrellas etc?
    And it’s the beach which is public not the access, though most beaches have a point of public access.
    What lands exactly does the Crane own?
    The issue, according to Doyle, seems to be, the hotel proper is not located immediately behind the line of chairs shown, as it is with many hotels. Yet, he is inferring those lands behind the beach chair line are owned by the Crane?
    The vendor(s) are storing their chairs on this land? The Crane sea can get rough, so if one were to store chairs on the beach (public, below the high water mark?), they would get ‘wash way’.

  13. Peter Lawrence Thompson Avatar
    Peter Lawrence Thompson

    The Crane Hotel, like every other coastal property owner, holds title to land extending to the “high water mark,” defined as follows in our Coastal Zone Management Act: “observations or measurements to determine the high water mark shall be made at the time of any ordinary high tide occurring on the sixth, seventh or eighth days before or after the day of a full moon.” In other words the wet beach is public land; the dry beach falls under private ownership.

    BUT, and it is a big BUT, the 1982 Act regulating the National Conservation Commission gave them jurisdiction to license beach vendors. As defined by this Act – and the legislation it repealed and replaced – the beach includes all land adjacent to and within 33 metres (100 ft) of the landward limit of the foreshore (i.e. the dry beach and backshore areas in private ownership).

  14. Peter Lawrence Thompson Avatar
    Peter Lawrence Thompson

    I am developing significant respect for those bureaucrats and legislators who drafted the National Conservation Commission Act CAP. 393 back in the early eighties. It was portrayed at the time it was passed as aimed at regulating bothersome vendors on public beaches. Jack Dear QC, Chairman of the Barbados Tourist Board in 1982, made a speech which emphasized the restrictions on haphazard beach vending and it is that speech that the Mighty Gabby is responding to with “Jack don’t want me to bathe on my beach.”

    The deeper implications of the Act are only now becoming clear to me: according to the Act “‘beach’ includes the land adjoining the foreshore of Barbados and extending not more than 33 metres beyond the landward limit of the foreshore.” This gives the Bajan public, through the NCC, a voice in the uses that private landowners can make of the beach land that they hold title to and pay taxes on.

    http://extwprlegs1.fao.org/docs/pdf/bar19684.pdf

  15. Bernard Codrington Avatar
    Bernard Codrington

    @ Hants at 1:58 PM

    I am not aware that hotels set up their beach chairs on the public beaches. But if your assumption is true, then they would be in breach of the law and are causing obstruction to my right to enjoy the beach. All beaches in Barbados are public.
    I am assuming that the law has not been secretively changed.

  16. Bernard Codrington Avatar
    Bernard Codrington

    @ PLT at 2:20 PM and 2 :22 PM

    Thanks for the clarification. I hope that the parties in dispute are equally informed.

  17. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    @ Bernard Codrington who wrote, ” All beaches in Barbados are public. ”

    Barbadians ( when sober lol ) avoid the beach in front of hotels.

  18. Peter Lawrence Thompson Avatar
    Peter Lawrence Thompson

    While Bajans believe that “All beaches in Barbados are public” that is not quite true and never has been. The wet beach is public, ie the beach between the low water mark and the high water mark; however above the high water mark the beach (the dry beach) has always been freehold private property unless the crown has title to the land behind the beach.

  19. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    @ Bernard Codrington,

    If Barbados beaches were not public I would posit that Paradise beach would have been

    developed by Butch and Maycocks bay would have been a Club Med.

  20. David Avatar
    David

    @Sargeant

    The Facebook link to the interview is embedded in the blog above.

  21. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    @ Peter Lawrence Thompson who wrote “(the dry beach) has always been freehold private

    property unless the crown has title to the land behind the beach.”

    We need a clarification from others about this.

  22. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    @ David can you tell us if Peter Lawrence Thompson March 26, 2018 at 2:49 PM #

    comment is true ?

  23. charles skeete Avatar
    charles skeete

    some beaches are more public than others

  24. NorthernObserver Avatar
    NorthernObserver

    Aside
    ’14. (1) The Commission shall, not later than 6 months from
    the end of each financial year, submit to the Minister a report
    containing
    (a) an account of the activities and transactions of the Commission
    throughout that financial year in such detail as
    the Minister may direct; and
    (b) a statement of the accounts of the Commission for that
    financial year audited in accordance with section 13.
    (2) A copy of the report together with a copy of the auditor’s
    report shall be printed and laid on the tables of the Senate and
    House of Assembly and published in the Official Gazette not later
    than 3 months from the date of the receipt thereof by the
    Minister. ‘

    75th Sitting…https://www.barbadosparliament.com/sittings/details/93
    Papers
    · National Conservation Commission for the year April 2006 – March 2007
    · National Conservation Commission for the year April 2007 – March 2008
    · National Conservation Commission for the year April 2008 – March 2009
    · National Conservation Commission for the year April 2009 – March 2010
    · National Conservation Commission for the year April 2010 – March 2011
    · National Conservation Commission for the year April 2011 – March 2012
    2016-02-26

    So they produced 6 annual reports at once in Feb 2016, covering 06-12, and now (that I can find) nothing since then? [Note, they call them Papers]

  25. NorthernObserver Avatar
    NorthernObserver

    Produced means laid in Parliament, the actual production dates are unknown as the Board doesn’t sign off. According to the accountants signature on the accounts, they were produced ‘within a reasonable time’.

  26. NorthernObserver Avatar
    NorthernObserver

    according to the Act “‘beach’ includes the land adjoining the foreshore of Barbados and extending not more than 33 metres beyond the landward limit of the foreshore.”
    I could find no definition of “foreshore”?

    what is the interpretative relation to the “high water mark”?

  27. David Avatar
    David

    This is a technical matter that calls for the speedy intervention of the government. It is embarrassing to have to witness this matter playing out in the public domain. It characterizes Barbados as a banana republic. If Minister Denis Lowe is sick then AG Brathwaite or another should step up for crissakes.

  28. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    @ David,

    Yes the Crane vs Beach vendors is a matter for the AG and the PM but I still would like to

    know if all beaches in Barbados (30 metres above the high water mark ) are public.

  29. David Avatar
    David

    @Hants

    Well pull it up later, it should be available with a Google.

  30. Well, Well Avatar
    Well, Well

    someone said Jepter Ince is acting for Lowe, if so, good luck.

  31. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    @ David,

    We may have to ask Gabby to remake Jack lol.

  32. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    “Barbados law stipulates that all beaches are public so Barbadians and visitors

    therefore have no shortage of choice from the tranquil Caribbean Sea to the pounding surf of the Atlantic Ocean.

    Don’t forget to take along your sunscreen, and remember, topless sunbathing is against the law in Barbados. ”

    https://www.visitbarbados.org/barbados-beach-guide

  33. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    @ Peter Thompson do you still stand by your post “Peter Lawrence Thompson March 26, 2018 at 2:49 PM # ?”

  34. NorthernObserver Avatar
    NorthernObserver

    I read (cannot remember where), this is actually a battle between two Canadians, Doyle and Melnyk. At issue is an IADB project to upgrade the beach. Access was via a narrow road between Melnyk and Simpson properties at the east end of the beach. Melnyk complained, and got an injunction to cease the work. According to Doyle, the AG is well aware of these issues.
    I will guess the vendor issue is simply to raise the profile of the battle, and the vendors are just pawns used by Doyle to get the beach upgrade (the injunction lifted).

  35. lawson Avatar
    lawson

    Observer maybe I can help …do you know where the water would touch the wall at the royal barbadian yacht club?….well you were not welcome on the other side of that foreshore.

  36. Simple Simon Avatar
    Simple Simon

    David March 26, 2018 at 5:02 PM “If Minister Denis Lowe is sick…”

    Is there a limit to how much sick leave a Cabinet Minister can take? Because if the Minister is sick as often as alleged, maybe he ought to hand in his resignation, or perhaps better still the Prime Minister can relieve him of his Ministerial portfolio so that he can concentrate on getting better.

    After all nobody has any divine right to be a Cabinet Minister.

  37. Prodigal Son Avatar
    Prodigal Son

    This whole saga is so sad…………and there seems to be no one in charge to sort out this mess not at the NCC level or the Cabinet level.

    Yet we have an arrogant power hungry PM who seems to be becoming more and more like a dictator with his now weekly outbursts……..holding on to power and yet no one seems to be responsible for the woes of this country but still getting paid.

    Did anyone see the moron PM on TV tonight looking bloated and greasy………CBC cameras rolling at every branch meeting and racking up the debt to CBC………….I want the incoming administration to go after them for the outstanding monies owed.

    The PM thinks he is being smart and cute to be taunting the people of Barbados every week with the calling of an election. You go Freundel………your date with destiny is coming!

    In the meanwhile Barbados is burning down and people like these two vendors are being swallowed alive by a vulture shark!

    I would beg David Commisiong to help this lady……..Doyle has impounded the lady’s property and he has no right to do this and is getting away with murder……..where is the police?

  38. AOD Avatar
    AOD

    Does the owner of Crane Hotel own the beach in question?
    Was there substantial long term accretion such that beach is much wider, and this change is not reflected on the title documents, and was it neither re surveyed nor registered by land tax department/BRA???
    Is there a public access?
    If the beach inland to the high water mark is indeed property of Crane Hotel, was there any formal arrangement to rent or lease said beach to the vendors and in the absence of any such contract, we’re the vendors occupying those lands for long enough to claim easement?? The beach provides access for their trade.
    More and more it’s sounding like a legal gordian knot and I am not a lawyer.

    As for NCC I assume (I could be wrong) that the Act’s definition is a practical one, but would not apply to freehold, as traversing said lands could be trepassing.

    More questions than answers, there may not be an easy legal solution. Vendors and the Owner of the Crane need to negotiate and workout something in interests of both parties. I fear this going through the courts and setting legal precedent and creating contention many other coastal properties in Barbados. Good government would anticipate how this could become a crisis and wheel and deal behind the scenes. E.G a land tax discount for allowing Vendors access during day time hours.

  39. Prodigal Son Avatar
    Prodigal Son

    Frankly speaking, Barbados is leaderless at the moment…….we only now have a moron for a PM leading a pack of ball-less men on a boat called DLP Titanic.

    They do not care about Barbados only about themselves and lining their pockets.

    After the way they have sat on their rear ends and allow raw sewage to flow on our south coast streets for two years ……… is ample proof they they are selfish arrogant morons.

    So no one can expect any action on this potentially explosive situation.

  40. Northern Bajan Avatar
    Northern Bajan

    Is it any truth that Maloney & Edghill have bought out the Crane Hotel

  41. Peter Lawrence Thompson Avatar
    Peter Lawrence Thompson

    @Hants asked “Peter Thompson do you still stand by your post Peter Lawrence Thompson March 26, 2018 at 2:49 PM # ?”

    Yes; the visitbarbados.org blurb is inaccurate.

  42. David Avatar
    David

    BU received a note many months ago that Crane was on the market. We have been unable to confirm.

  43. David Avatar
    David

    @AOQ

    The question many are asking is whether the vendors are being trampled by two elephants.

    If there is a legal issue with respect to access to the beach there is no parliamentary oversight at this time! A stroke of genius some will say?

  44. Northern Bajan Avatar
    Northern Bajan

    Is it true the Crane will be a listed Hilton property by next month

  45. Peter Lawrence Thompson Avatar
    Peter Lawrence Thompson

    @NorthernObserver March 26, 2018 at 3:45 PM #

    From the Coastal Zone Management Act: “foreshore” means the area between the low and high water marks;

  46. Peter Lawrence Thompson Avatar
    Peter Lawrence Thompson

    According to the Act, among the legislated functions of the National Conservation Commission is: “5(c) to control, maintain and develop the public parks, public gardens and beaches of Barbados;” note that it does NOT say “public beaches,” it says “beaches.” The NCC has the authority under law to “to control, maintain and develop” ALL beaches, whether on public or private land, in Barbados.

  47. NorthernObserver Avatar
    NorthernObserver

    Thanks PLT….terminology and definitions make this confusing.

    Google “beach” definition and one gets…”a pebbly or sandy shore, especially by the ocean between high- and low-water marks.” Which is what is termed foreshore, and what you referred to earlier as wet beach.
    But as you noted the Act (393) defines beach as extending 33m inland from the high water mark. (landward limit of the foreshore). Your interpretation was interesting. It may also mean the NCC has the right to license activities in that zone.
    I am unsure one wishes to get into “maintain”, for in essence this could be construed in many ways.

  48. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    The NCC has the authority under law to “to control, maintain and develop” ALL beaches, whether on public or private land, in Barbados.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    But PLT…
    Since all beaches in Barbados are public, it stands to reason than anything that can be called a ‘beach’ is public land….. and conversely, that anything that is privately owned is not a ‘beach’ – and hence not under NCC control.

    If these people can show that they ‘own’ this property then…..
    – no beach
    – no NCC
    – No vendors

    ALL laws in Barbados are written to ensure that lawyers can make money.

  49. Peter Lawrence Thompson Avatar
    Peter Lawrence Thompson

    @Bush Tea, The beaches in Barbados are NOT public property. That is a myth that I cannot find corroborated anywhere in the statute books. The foreshore is crown land, which equates to public property, but this is only the ‘wet beach’ between the high water and low water marks. This is common law that we inherited from Britain.

    It does not matter who owns the beach in the Crane dispute. The NCC, according to law, has the authority under law to “to control, maintain and develop” ALL beaches, whether on public or private land, in Barbados.

  50. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ PLT
    Did you check with Gabby….?

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