The Jefferson Cumberbatch Column – In Defence of “irregardless” and “I’m good”-A book Review
As many of the readers of this column might have guessed, and would probably expect, my professional reading habits range from the closely argued judicial decision to the more conventional legal literature of the subject monographs, digests, encyclopaedias, and scholarly articles. On more occasions than a few, however, I am inclined to venture outside my area of training and to delve into literature that would be more relevant to other fields of study. One book that I am currently reading is the highly informative and irreverently entertaining Bad English-A History of Linguistic Aggravation by Ammon Shea, who is listed on the dust cover as author of “Reading the OED”.
In this effort, Shea declares that his aim is “to examine a number of the issues of the issues commonly thought of as mistakes in the English Language and to see how these mistaken forms have been used over the past five hundred years in ways both eloquent and awkward. He writes that it is presented as “a history of the things that we think are correct, the reasons why we think them so, and a celebration of the marvellously flexible language that has allowed room for such myriad forms”.
As he notes, the criticisms of the English language over the years have been a familiar litany-it is being weakened by foreign imports; young people are debasing it with slang; ruinous Americanisation and improper grammar that will lead to an inability to communicate beyond the most basic level of grunts”. In spite of all these indignities, however, Shea posits that the language continues to thrive and grow in most magnificent fashion.
These criticisms do not fundamentally differ in kind from those which exist locally in respect of the use of English. Not that we do not have the self-acclaimed purists who are quick to seize upon every perceived howler by a writer, announcer or public figure, but we are also forced to endure the carpings of those who would prefer not to hear the nation language being used at all except in socially forgivable circumstances such as calypso lyrics, advertisements or in jest.
In his book, Shea purports to debunk some of the common assumptions surrounding what is or is not good English. For instance, is there a word such as “irregardless”, described in a 1947 work by Frank Colby, “The Practical Handbook of Proper English” as a “nonsensical and spurious word”? Most who consider themselves learned would scoff at such usage, and the spellcheck on my laptop is green with outrage, but Shea opines that the word probably started life as a humorous combination of “irrespective” and “regardless” and cites its use in a late eighteenth century poem published in the Charleston City Gazette-
But Death, irregardless of tenderest ties,
Resolved the good Betty, at length, to breathe…
As to the traditional criticism that “irregardless” is not a word, Shea considers this sentiment to have no greater chance of success than “if you stepped into traffic and yelled “ That is not a car” in the hopes of not being run over”. After all, he reasons, it has all the necessary components of a word-it is a series of letters arranged in a specific order, is frequently used in either speech or writing and indicates a commonly used meaning.
The essential difficulty with irregardless is the superfluous prefix “ir”. After all, the suffix “less” should suffice to show a lack of regard. However, in answer to this, Shea argues that the superfluous prefix may also be found in “habitable” and “inhabitable”; “personate” and “impersonate”; “valuable”; and “invaluable”; and “flammable” and “inflammable”, each pair of which has an identical meaning Indeed, as he notes, the last example might have been the cause of far more dismay, given that many people are inclined to think that the use of the prefix means that something so described may not be set alight or is fireproof, which is the exact opposite of what it means!
I’m good
In spite of the purist insistence that one should say rather “ I am well”, in response to an enquiry after one’s health, the expression “I’m good” appears to have become part of the English and, if one is to judge from the perfunctory greetings on the popular “Down to Brass Tacks” call-in programme, local idiom.
The classical argument here is that “good” is an adjective and a description of how you are (health-wise) in response to such an inquiry, should employ an adverb such as “well”. Of course, the use of “good”would not be amiss if the choice were between “good” and “bad” as in a degree of probity or state of mind.
Nevertheless, as Shea notes, some verbs (“copulative or linking” verbs such as the verb to be) should sometimes be followed by an adjective-e.g. “I am irritated” rather than “I am irritatedly” and “ You are annoying rather than “You are annoyingly”. He is of the view that the use of “good” is criticised rather because it is thought to be the wrong adjective for describing the state of one’s health and that “well”, which is an adverb, as well as an adjective, is preferable.
Shea concedes that this proposition is at least arguable, though not the one that asserts that “good” is improper in all cases where it follows a verb. This diktat has not been always followed, certainly not in the local modern-speak,not by James Brown who proclaimed to the world in 1965 – “I feel good…,”and not at all by NFL football or EPL soccer coaches, who inevitably claim after a victory, that “the boys done good”.
In memoriam-
I should wish today to convey sincere sentiments of condolence to the friends, family and acquaintances of Miss Beverly Alleyne, who was afflicted with the singular misfortune of having to teach me the rudiments of the French language during my years in the Lower School during the early 1970s, and who shuffled off this mortal coil last Sunday.
Miss Alleyne was the epitome of serenity, exuding an air of being at peace and displaying a mastery of the subject matter with a wry smile that was like a magnet to us prepubescent boys. The fact that it was widely known that she had wholly committed her life to God served only to add to her appeal.
I did not ever encounter her again after I left school, but I sense that she would have followed the public exploits of each of her pupils with interest and pride. She was like that. May she rest in peace?
Barbados Underground 
“Irregardless” is a vital part of “long-talk” language.
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I am not at all proficient when It comes to speaking and writing grammatically, but I take issue with Shea’s argument that the English language has been weakened by the young people debasing it with slang, and the ruinous Americanization and improper grammar.
The fact is most of the American kids in the inner-cities of America who engage in colloquialism to express themselves within that given social context, can transition from employing improper grammar and slang when placed in other social settings unlike most West Indian youth who migrates to America. And even though most West Indian youths who migrate to America math skills are up to par, many of them still have difficulty with speaking and writing grammatically, and most if not all of them are placed in remediate English classes upon they initial arrival here in the states because ofvthe used of improper grammar. Have ever listen to the average American kid and West Indian kid speak on TV?
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@ Jeff Cumberbatch
You are no doubt one of the purest. However, the changes in the use of English cited do not reflect language in the fullness of the culture that it is.
New words come into usage, formally, every time a new edition of the Oxford dictionary is printed.
We are not at all impressed that even when the English themselves include new words into the lexicon there are some of us, maybe including you, who would prefer a time when the purists connected English to Latin and located meanings within that epoch.
So for the purest words like ‘fucking’ which appears in their own dictionaries should not be used on TV, for example.
Unlike you, we have no particular liking for the English language, as imperial culture. And we would prefer a national orientation which includes a basket of languages, including some African languages, none more dominant than the other.
Maybe even a nation language as was being developed by your former colleague Dr. Allsopp. May he rest in peace.
More fundamentally, when are we as a nation, to come to understand the deeper and evolving meanings, etymology, of words. That is real reading, not calling word one after the other.
For it represents a source of sadness for us that not even the best educated amongst us can read with a sense of the evolving meanings in law, history or anything else.
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Thanks very much for your notice of the passing at Mrs Beverly Alleyne. You do us in the diaspora a service when you mention the departure of those who played a great part in our development and made us the men we are.
Of all the teachers that I have thought of lovingly, she is the one that was frequently on my mind over these many years. May the Good Lord pardon me for the Bajan French that I inflicted on her ears up to 5th form.
She was beautiful, kind, always pleasant and a lady. May she rest in peace.
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“Unlike you, we have no particular liking for the English language, as imperial culture. And we would prefer a national orientation which includes a basket of languages, including some African languages, none more dominant than the other.”
@ Pachamama, Thanks for your comments, Pacha. Of course I do not expect this contribution to be overrun with responses, given its nature (no mention here of Trump or Clinton, Mia and the Bs or Freundel and the Dems.)
That being said, why do you not have an affection for the only language that you may be competent to communicate in, read and speak? Fluency in African languages may indeed be useful, but that is now part of our history, alas!
@Anonymouse, De nada! At no risk to revealing your pseudonym, did our paths cross?
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@Jeff
Be fair, you are in an online rumshop 🙂
To follow Pachamama’s point the English language has its relationship to Latin. English is a universal language. Is it wrong for the UWI to brand Caribbean English for example? And in a limited way it exist. This is against the background a language helps to define a people’s identity.
And no this topic will not be overrun by many for obvious reasons you mentioned and fell free to add dullards to your list.
>
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@Jeff
Well, we see our encounter with Englishness as just a 500 year departure.
For ten of thousands of years our peoples have traversed this planet before this culture was imposed.
Allowing English culture to be too deep embedded in who we are, viscera, is an acceptance of imperialism that we should not.
This is not the only language that we have some proficiency in. And we are not talking about French and Spanish for the history of imposition is not dissimilar. The limitation to the Germanic linguistic forms closes off other worlds from us. Worlds which existed before that world/s.
There is such a larger and richer set of cultures. Cultures which belittle Englishness.
But yes, we wear the English language with the brashness of an orphan raised by moneyed parents and exposed to the best of everything but forever yearning for our birth parents.
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We were never convinced, for example, that the God Bajans waste time praying to understands English.
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Q….how are you?
A…..I am good
Q…. good ar what?
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“David” sent me scurrying over here about the use of the word “disinvite” in a recent post about DJ Trump. I didn’t invent the word just going with the flow but I had some reservations about it and that’s the reason for the quotation marks.
Major publications and broadcast organisations have a style guide where certain words are verboten and pronunciations are mandatory as some regional pronunciations differ from the accepted norm. BTW the NYT never called someone a liar in print but they relaxed that rule after Trump was making so many falsehoods that they threw their hands up in disgust. I don’t think “disinvite” is in NYT’s lexicon.
I am particularly interested in idioms and their origin and there is a particular idiom “to over egg the pudding” that could be the motto for BU.
BTW Jeff David was using the Bajan vernacular for the P word as I was reminded yesterday.
That being said I will slowly exit the room.
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@ Jeff
Now you are garnering much deserved attention.
For us this engagement has much more potential than the popular ‘Trumpisms’
Thanks for your contribution, this day.
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“over-egg the pudding” (uk)
-to spoil something by trying too hard to improve it.
There you go, Sarge!
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This Daily Mail article remind me of the Barbados crooked DPP, Fraud Squad and crooked lawyers in Barbados taking bribes and shafting others in the Barbados Law Courts
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3828914/How-QC-buried-evidence-Met-bribes-innocent-man-jail-Whistleblower-alerted-court-organised-crime-infiltrated-police-said-perverted-course-justice.html
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Yes, I am a year or two older…
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I don’t want to bring the Trump thread over to this discussion but since this is about some words and language one thing that sticks out about Trump is he is so inarticulate, the man makes GW Bush looks virtually Churchillian in contrast. He can’t speak extemporaneously about any topic just reverts to “it is going to be tremendous” or “trust me” and “smart’ as in ‘I’m a really smart person”. There are many more examples but this is a blog and I am not writing a column.
Trump claims to be a graduate of a top school and demanded to see Obama’s transcripts, could someone leak Trump’s transcripts.
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Something really needs to be done about that DPP….the nasty things the lawyers do in the supreme court and call it practicing law….some real lawyers I know had a hearty laugh at what they do and then call it practicing law…..in other jurisdictions, the judges they stand before would send them straight to prison gor those nasty antics.
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English is a dynamic language. I am always amazed at how the US and Br3itain are two English-speaking countries divided by a common language.
Nevertheless, here is something that really concerns me: the Rasta family being hung out to dry by the state and rightwing Barbadians.
As I understand it, the children are both minors, therefore this case should have been heard in a family court, not an open criminal court.
Already we are getting the bogus talk of children’s right to an education. But this is Humpty Dumpty all over again.
The children have been wronged, but not by their parents, but by the state. If the children had not been attending school, then w should look at the school for the problem.
The class teacher controls the roll, therefore if the children were absence without explanation the class teacher should have brought it to the attention of the head.
S/he should then write to or visit the parents to ascertain what was wrong.
According to the outcome, the matter should have been raised with the welfare department or resolved at that level.
Whatever the outcome, if the state had to take further action, it should have been in the family court, rather than the magistrates’ court, even if the alleged offence is a criminal act under the Education Act, the state’s obligation is to protect the privacy of the children.
By having the hearing in an open criminal court and identifying the parents, the children are therefore identified. This is the greater wrong.
What makes it worse is that an inexperienced and badly trained media have been reporting the matter as if the children do not matter.
These children are damaged fore life, not through their parents neglect, but through the actions of a heavy-handed state. The fiction is that Barbados follows the English common law.
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Jeff
There are many similarities between how the purest see language and how they see cricket.
Although limited overs cricket could fill the stands and is much more popular, test cricket is still the centre of thinking by the purists even if played before empty stands and looses money continuously.
Had it not been for the purists we could have been the global controllers of limited overs cricket, a formation more akin to our natural, cultural expression.
We wonder how much more an abiding commitment to English culture hinders development, even of Englishness itself.
No?
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“Had it not been for the purists we could have been the global controllers of limited overs cricket, a formation more akin to our natural, cultural expression”.
Although the recent results in Sharjah would belie this!
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Yes, because the ethos has been Eurocentric
As if something about is pure
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Thanks Sarge.
Agree with Pacha when he opined that we need to have Jeff’s intervention of this variety occurring more often. There is a laxity that has become the embodiment of the standard whether in the oral or written form. How will we pull it back though given the use of the overpowering lexicon of social media.
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Very saddened to read of the departure of Miss BB Alleyne to be with the Lord Jesus Christ. Ms Alleyne began her stint at HC in 1963 where they taught Geography to my class. She would again teach us for three years in 3rd, 4th, and 5th form 1965 to 1968.
re Anonymouse – TheGazer October 9, 2016 at 9:29 AM #
Whereas I would agree with what you say below about Beverly Alleyne, a far as I know she always remained a spinster.
Thanks very much for your notice of the passing at Mrs Beverly Alleyne. You do us in the diaspora a service when you mention the departure of those who played a great part in our development and made us the men we are.
Of all the teachers that I have thought of lovingly, she is the one that was frequently on my mind over these many years. May the Good Lord pardon me for the Bajan French that I inflicted on her ears up to 5th form.
She was beautiful, kind, always pleasant and a lady. May she rest in peace.
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GP
Such subtlety of language!Chapeau sir!
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Errata…..Chapeau monsieur!
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Gabriel October 9, 2016 at 5:39 PM #
LET ME ADD THAT MISS ALLEYNE WAS ALWAYS VERY PRIM AND PROPER EVEN WHEN SHE READ TO US IN WHF WHITMARSH BOOK THREE ABOUT ALI BABA ET LES QUARANTE VOULEURS
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@ Jeff,
I was perplexed with your comments towards Pachamama at 10:40 AM where you stated “Fluency in African languages may indeed be useful, but that is now part of our history, alas!
I would appreciate it if you could expand on this statement. Please be explicit.
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Exclaimer, what I meant is that while it would be of some heritage value for us to be able to speak and understand the languages of our and casters, that would now require formal education in them. And they are no longer the languages of international or local commerce today
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Dompey October 9, 2016 at 8:06 AM
Welcome back, Bro.
Because of my Bajan accent, a service colleague, trying to gain a few laughs with some others around, told me that he was going to learn me to speak English. The tables were turn on him, and he became a laughing stock,when I replied, “You may be able to teach me to speak English, but you certainly cannot learn me.”
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Thanks colonel, but I can’t tell you that I am enthuse to be back, nevertheless, now that we are still on the topic of proficiency of grammar and the seepaged of colloquialism in the language, I must express another observation regarding grammar usage amongst West Indian people.
But correct me if I am wrong on this observation though, but I haven’t as yet met a West Indian who is proficient in the articulation of the English language, unless he or she is well-educated or has taught the subject.
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Colonel
Many West Indians are quite proficient at write grammatically, however, I’ve noticed that speaking the language presents some difficulty for many West Indians that I have met here in the States. The average American kid Black and especially White, is more proficient at grammar usage than the average West Indian who holds bachelor’s degree here.
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“In his book, Shea purports to debunk some of the common assumptions surrounding what is or is not good English.”
I tend to share Shea’s view for in my view ‘I goes’ and ‘I works’ sounds better than ‘I go’ and ‘I work’. Speaking subject to correction, my understanding is that is why the accent is used particularly in the expression of French to give the language more polish.
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Charles Skeete
I can’t get my mind around how “I goes and I works” sounds better than “I go and I work”, but I guess you are the expert here.
I works at the Pentagon
I goes to school at the UWI…yep!
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Some of you know how to reduce a subject matter to the lowest common denominator.
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Regional English has a great influence on what is acceptable and what is not. Estuary English, the type spoken in London, is like a foreign language compared to Geordie English spoken in Newcastle in the north of England.
Plse remember, China has the largest number of English speakers in the world – not India..
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@ Gabriel
Your earlier post confuses me and I will explain.
A woman comes upstairs to your office and ask her how she is and she says “I’m ok” and you immediately start a series of concerned questions because you understood the intonation of OK to be not good yet, you seem to intimate that, the utilization of a “comparative” word to affirm a ” superlative” state of mood/being is in face a deficiency of some sort and suggests an incomplete sentence?
That is certainly a submission to show solidarity with a fellow colleague and not one that is a reasonable submission.
@ Dompey
Any time that someone says something that you can’t understand like the context of “I goes…” One is advised to either research that context so that one can comment with a modicum ot understanding or keep one’s mouth shut because you immediately show up the fact that you are a doufus
But doan mind me, I is jes an ingrunt man
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Thanks Piece but you heard me said that I didn’t understand so how does that make me a doofus? So if I take your sentiment at face-value then, if you or anyone else renders a guess on a specific subject interest, and you’re proven incorrect in your analysis you’re considered a doofus?
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Piece, context or not “I goes” is considered Ebonics in this part of the world.
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@ David
…not sure exactly how you managed to get rid of this Dompey pest for the past year or so…. but whatever it was, …. can you PLEASE do it twice as hard …again?
Shiite man!!!
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@ Colonel Buggy October 9, 2016 at 8:34 PM
“Because of my Bajan accent, a service colleague, trying to gain a few laughs with some others around, told me that he was going to learn me to speak English. The tables were turn on him, and he became a laughing stock,when I replied, “You may be able to teach me to speak English, but you certainly cannot learn me.”
Nice one there, Colonel! You certainly did settle the argument that sarcasm is the highest form of wit.
You were well armed with that Bajan sword of ‘educated-intelligence’ forged in the crucible of commonsense to expose the jumped-up English dickhead for what he really is; nothing but a gobshite berk (aka Bajan cu*t). LOL!!
For many people in the UK proper or standard English is a foreign language. Even the Germans are better speakers and writers of “good” English than the ‘born and bred’ residents of those “British” isles.
Do you really think, [sorry, feel] that Dompey the donkey (the USA-trained equivalent of the British jackass) is able to spot the difference between “to learn” and “to teach” as you clearly highlighted in your ‘obvious’ innuendo of a reprimand of that English fool for a soldier?
One is left to wonder if the return of the ‘laughable’ donkey called Dompey would provide more grist for the ‘laughing’ mill of BU comedy.
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Mill
I’ve been in this ice- box for more than three- decades now,and wherever I go or have worked I continually hear Americans particularly Black, reiterate the phrase to educated and less than educated West Indians: SPEAK ENGLISH.
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“reiterate the phrase”
Isn’t “re” one of those prefixes that Jeff is writing about?
Over to you Jeff
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Mill, did you listen to Rihanna’s interview Oprah Winfrey after the Chris Brown assaulted, and she happened to be a girl who attended a school of national recognition in Barbados, but yet she still have some difficulty with the English language?
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“reiterate the phrase”
++++++
That should read
Isn’t “re” as in “reiterate” one of those prefixes that Jeff is writing about?
Over to you Jeff
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Dompey,
The English language is a foreign language to most Americans. American English is a mixture of Eastern European, West Country English, Latin American Spanish, West and other languages.
Spelling is a good example of this. But all are agreed on the verb ‘to be’.
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When will the schools in Barbados and the Caribbean get these lies off the curriculum, what are the black leaders doing about this…time to stop lying to the children.
Columbus Day changing to Indigenous People’s Day
BY JOE DZIEMIANOWICZ
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS Monday, October 10, 2016, 9:54 AM
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Indigenous Peoples Day “shows a shift in consciousness.”
Indigenous Peoples Day “shows a shift in consciousness.” (© ADREES LATIF / REUTERS/REUTERS)
Goodbye, Columbus (Day).
The state of Vermont and the cities of Denver and Phoenix have joined a growing roster of locales observing Indigenous People’s Day on the second Monday in October (as in, today) instead of one named for the Italian explorer who famously sailed the ocean blue in 1492 and is erroneously credited with “discovering” the Americas. Yeah, you Christopher Columbus.
The idea to re-imagine the day to celebrate Native Americans and indigenous heritage has been around for nearly 40 years ago, first proposed by a delegation of Native Nations to the International Conference on Discrimination Against Indigenous Populations in the Americas in 1977. Since then it has gotten traction. Big cities like Berkeley, Seattle, Minneapolis and Albuquerque and smaller communities have embraced the idea.
Leo Killsback, a citizen of the Northern Cheyenne Nation and assistant professor of American Indian Studies at Arizona State University, told CNN that the change “represents a shift in consciousness” and that “indigenous peoples and their voices are important in today’s conversations.” It also marks getting history right — and not whitewashing it.
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Hall Austin
Thanks for your insight, but as you well know the United States of America used to be a British colony until 1776, but the Founding Fathers despised the British so much that their embarked on new system of governance, called soccer football, rugby football, and dropped a letter or two from many of the English words etc.
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Yes indeed, Sarge @10;09 am, the -re- in “reiterate” adds nothing but the fact that it connotes doing something again which “iterate” already does. It should be placed in the same category as “irregardless”
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Iterate means to do or say something again, and reiterate is the result of the erroneous addition of a redundant. So iterate means to repeat a process, but with new evolving information. Reiterate on the other hand, means to repeat old redundant information.
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Lawd hast mercy!!!
Looka whu Jeff Cumberbatch gone and do!!
he drop a topic heah and look who learning we english now “repeat old, redundant information??”
So leh de ole man see dennnnnn.
If I say that alternative propulsions systems which will replace fossil fuels will find their genesis in light waves that are *****.
And then, having states what is a new concept to all readers, 5 minutes later, repeat what was new to all the listeners here on BU, that would mean that one could not say that de ole man “reiterated his original postulate about APSes” which simple means that I repeated something that I had already said it but worse than that the information that was “new” but the Dompean misinterpretation could not be reiterated because it “was not old” and certainly was not “redundant”
@ The Sage Annunaki
I going axe dat de Honourable Blogmanst ban Jeff too because he seems to have been the magnet that hat attracted Domps to repeat “old habits” and I now reiterate that whaich you said previously, making such a re-dundant re-pitition which by its mere duplication becomes a RE Re not to be confused with Ri-Ri.
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@ Jeff Cumberbatch October 9, 2016 at 7:40 PM,
Thank you for your reply. If I’m to be brutally honest I found it to be laced with undisguised complacency.
Why would a man of your pedigree dismiss the possible revival of the numerous African languages employed by our Negro Ancestors? In order for our region to develop and for us to restore a sense of pride as a people we need to address this language legacy.
Language is perhaps the most important tool in our toolbox which may allow us as a people to become more knowledgeable, assertive and independent. The fact that you are called Jeff and find it a novelty for the region to adopt an African language is instructive.
Jeff, several years ago I commented in BU that the Caribbean region should teach Swahili to our children. Swahili is the lingua franca for the Africa continent. Imagine the possibilities of an African and a Caribbean child communicating in one voice using the language from their ancestors’ continent and not the language of their masters.
Our inferiority as a people stems from our stubbornness as a people to address our history. As a colonised people I have no problem that we should continue to learn our inherited language. However, I find it odd that the Barbados government seems determined to push the mandarin language at the expense of the Swahili language.
Jeff, the importance of a language should never be reduced to a popularity contest.
PS. Where did the name coucou come from? How comes we in Barbados, the most conservative country in the region, end up adopting this dish from mother Africa?
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@Exclaimer
I know your question is addressed to Jeff, but I often asking the same question here regarding the Native American languages as appose to the European. The Native American languages were used in World War II as a code to throw the Germans off, but not good enough for the American curriculum.
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Exclaimer
“Our inferiority as a people stems from our stubbornness as a people to address our history”
Firstly, African are a diverse group of people even within one country far less more the entire continent.
Secondly, no such records exist in the Caribbean or elsewhere which traces our origin back to a specific village or region on the African continent!
And thirdly, exclaimer, how do we go about address our true identify as a Black people in the western hemisphere, when we can’t even trace our ancestry no further than four generstion?
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Exclaimer October 10, 2016 at 3:29 PM #
“PS. Where did the name coucou come from? How comes we in Barbados, the most conservative country in the region, end up adopting this dish from mother Africa?”
@ Exclaimer
“Cou Cou” is also cooked, with a few minor “modifications”, in islands such as the British and US Virgin Islands, St. Kitts, Nevis and Antigua, where it goes by the name of “fungi.”
I ate it for lunch in a Tobagonian restaurant called the “Blue Crab” and with boiled red snapper in the “Yellow Bird Bar” in St. Kitts.
The below photo is an example how “cou cou” is served in St. Kitts. The gravy is usually served in one dish and the fish/meat in other dishes.
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Artax
No one ask to describe the history of cou cou in Caribbean and the different names throughout the region. We wish to know its relationship to the African continent, and fungi which is eaten in Antigua sounds close to the Ghanian fu fu -which it made from turn corn meal.
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Artax
There is another Ghanian/Nigerian dish name Kinky which similar to our cou cou, but it is made with plantain and corn meal.
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@ Artax,
Thanks for the photo of one of my favourite dishes.
Thanks to the microwave I cook it frequently.
Never learned the traditional Bajan way.
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@ Dompey,
We Bajans are a funny breed. Many of us are in complete denial of our African heritage.
You have raised valid points. The Africa continent is rich and diverse. I believe that in Nigeria some ninety languages are spoken and that does not include their numerous spoken dialects.
Has the UWI carried out any meaningful research on the origins of our slave ancestors? Have they conducted any research on the dialect used by slaves, or the vocabulary handed down from generation to generation via Africa?
Dompey, I have visited many European countries with a black diaspora. All face very similar problems. What you will find in all these countries are a healthy minority of assertive Negroes who are pro-black, inquisitive and highly conscious of their African roots. Barbados is an exception to this rule and it saddens me.
@ Artax,
Thanks for the information concerning cou cou. A picture paints a thousand words; our national dish without any contention originates from Africa.
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Exorbiant….Fustrated
Guess who said those words.
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Exclaimer
I hear you brother, but though the African continent have much to offer in terms of or rediscovery as a people of African extraction. One can’t help to understand the self-hatred expressed by some Bajans of African descent -when one looks at the present day reality in many of the countries on the African continent, with a history of genocide, dictatorship; religious and ethnic cleansing; sectarian violence; the use of child soldiers; the kidnapped and raped of young girls by rebel forces; female circumcision; and social- tribalism etc. We may not care to admit it, but this disturbing reality is part and parcel of our legacy as an African race, and the minute we come to terms with this reality, is the minute we move towards fixing the race.
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Exclaimer
We can deny reality, but we can’t deny the consequences of denying reality.
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We have been to West Africa about 20 times in the last 20 years
And every time we go it is difficult not to see people we know.
Not that we know them but they look remarkably like people in the Caribbean, we actually know.
What more can we want than that?
Some pretense that we are something other than African
And we do not speak about the most recent ‘migration’
We’ve recently discovered distinctively African settlements in Brazil dating back to 56,000 years.
That is before White people even existed. Before the Asian migration route which came much later.
Just we continue, both in the Caribbean and in Alkebulan itself, to misidentify ourselves.
The most sickening about Africa for us is to see the diffusion of Christianity, as it continues to destroy us with foolishness.
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Pachamama
I may have had this discussion with you before, but there is enough evidence to support the finds that Christianity first took root on the African continent back in the 1st century.
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Dompey…you may know that Africa is a continent, not a country and that there are at least 50 countries, huge countries on that continent….
…..what many bajans with their mindwashed/whitewashed mentalities dont know is that not all the countries on the continent experience what you describe, many of those countries are extremely wealthy and many of the black people are just as mentally lost as black bajans and are yet to find themselves…because Africa was colonized by Europe before blacks were taken from the continent.
African history needs to be taught in the schools in the Caribbean. …get rid of the columbus bullshit and replace it with African history.
Dompey, I believe I told you this before, if you live in Brookly, there is the Brooklyn Public Library…I believe it’s close to Empire Boulevard.
If you live in Manhattan, there is a huge public library right on 5th Avenue across from the library with the huge lions…that library will have everything you need to know about the African continent….unless you want to travel to Africa to find out more.
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Well Well
Why are you insulting my intelligence and who do you think you’re talking to? Jesus Christ, I taught my four children the seas, the planets, the oceans, the continents, the countries, the great lakes, and how to play chess at a very early age.
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These are the words quoted by The Very Reverent Dr Lucille Baird courtesy of The Nation:
“ We have to watch these blocks and we can’t be reactive, we have to be proactive. If two people sit together, break it up. If three people stay together, break it up before it becomes a colossal giant that we can’t kill…..”
What an arrogant and a conceited messenger of God.
http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/87897/ban-blocks
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Well Well
I can’t forgive for that because yall continue to underestimate my intelligence as though I was born yesterday. I have very good grasp of the African continent, it colonial past and it contemporary unfolding.
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Well Well, here two things about Africa you probably do not know: Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe was a school teacher in Ghana before he was the president of Rhodesia which is now called Zimbabwe. Mahatma Gandhi spent 21 years in South Africa defending the Indian population there as a lawyer, before he took up the cause to fight for IIndia independence from the British.
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Dompey…all of that is public knowledge, why wont I know that, everything is now archived online……and books written by African leaders is all i read when a small child…..
…….the point is, the whitewashed black mind from the Caribbean, many living in North America, do not want to have a connection with their African ancestry….want to act like they specially chosen to be brainwashed or that they are honorary anything except black and of African descent.,,,, Caribbean people particularly are famous for this idiocy. They look for any excuse to explain away, why they should not connect.
I started reading Jomo Kenyatta’s books when I was 15 years old…in the 70s.
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If indeed Jeff is responsible for attracting Dompey back to BU …after we went to so much touble to exorcise ourselves of the demon donkey…. then Bushie can only reiterate that Jeff deserves to be pelted with some rock-stones.
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Dompey October 10, 2016 at 5:44 PM #
“Artax: No one ask to describe the history of cou cou in Caribbean and the different names throughout the region. We wish to know its relationship to the African continent, and fungi which is eaten in Antigua sounds close to the Ghanaian fu fu -which it made from turn corn meal.”
@ Dompey
Perhaps you could highlight where in my contribution I attempted to “describe the history of cou cou in Caribbean and the different names throughout the region.”
For your information, Fufu (variants of the name include foofoo, fufuo, foufou) is a staple food, common in many countries of West Africa and the Caribbean. It is OFTEN made with CASSAVA and green Plantain Flour. Other flours, such as semolina, maize flour or mashed plantains MAY take the PLACE of cassava flour.
The below photo shows what the Ghanaian fu-fu looks like. Therefore, how did you come to the conclusion that “fungi” “sounds close to the Ghanaian fu fu?”
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@ Exclaimer
You dun see why I have such little respect for the Pastor Durants and the Reverend Bairds?
Which god (purposely common case) could they be listening to if not the tithing demons and imps??
Look at the paucity of instruction and counter action she a so called pastor, is proposing?
“If there are two people standing up on the block BREK dem up!!!” The very words of the slave masters years ago she is employing out of frustration and an obvious disconnect with The Almighty GOD
Years ago these so called Christians would tek a microphone and tell their members that the would be meeting in such and such a place and have prayer meetings in a district for weeks while praying and singing and invoking the name of The Lord in the highways and hedges
Now she and her ilk are praying from a distance and getting a message from the devil to do this remote interventions via the front pages of the news papers and the tv while bringing American apostles and impostors to dip their hands in holy water and show their scorn while touching our faces when the niggers passing for a blessing.
They have lost their way, that is, of course if their paedophile Pastor Jippys and tithe loving selves ever knew GOD.
The don’t even do prayers for the shut ins or take phone calls for emergency domestic matters.
Woe unto him that put their Hans to the plough of the spiritual harvest and takes it back for theirs shall be a serious punishment…
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Artax
“Exclaimer, asked Jeff where did Cou Cou come from?”
And you hijacked the man conversation by throw in you three-center description of the many names cou cou is given throughout the Caribbean. When Exclaimer is simply asking where does the name cou cou come from? And I take that statement to mean that he is inquiring as to its origin, and given our origin as an African people from the Western part of Africa, and having a personal association with many people from the African continent here, I know from firsthand experience that cou cou closely resembles the West African dish fu fu and perhaps kinky.
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Artax
I came to the conclusion that fu fu isn’t that much different from cou cou because I’ve been eating for more than three-decades with the traditional peanut gravy. Yes, your research is quite correct, but fu fu is also made with corn as well Artax.
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Well Well
What you do think I was doing in the late 70s and early 80 Well Well? As a teenager I spent countless hours at the library down town read anything I got my hands on because knowledge more than money held my attention as a teenager growing up in Barbados. And you gine ask me if I know Africa isn’t country rather than a continent as though it isn’t public knowledge as you told. Why haven’t I heard anyone asking the question as to if South America is a country rather than a continent? And why must this ignorant question apply to Africa exclusively?
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@ Dompey
Firstly, Examiner responded to my contribution by stating: “@ Artax, THANKS for the INFORMATION concerning cou cou. A picture paints a thousand words; our national dish without any contention originates from Africa.”
I interpreted his comments to mean he APPRECIATED my contribution, which is more IMPORTANT, because the response was ADDRESSED to him and NOT you. As such, what you think does not count.
Secondly, I mentioned “fungi” as ONE alternative name of cou cou. Lo and behold, you went on to mention TWO NAMES by stating “that cou cou closely resembles the West African dish “fu fu” and perhaps “ki ki”.
Yet, you described “fungi” as a “three-center description of the MANY NAMES cou cou is given throughout the Caribbean.” The last time I checked one is LESS than two, so how could you “ascribe” the word “MANY” to one word…. “fungi?”
Do the those names tell Examiner or BU “where does the name cou cou come from?”
Therefore, taking these facts into consideration, it’s obvious you are the one who “hijacked the conversation” and BU in the process.
Finally, bear in mind that a variant of “fu fu” includes “foo foo.” I’m sure that, as a Barbadian, you must be familiar with the term “foo foo,” since it is often used to describe a “humbug.”
Dompey, Barbados Underground’s “foo foo.”
My friend, the police should charge you for fraud…. to wit, impersonating an intelligent individual.
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@ Artax
Boss… you know that you always had this problem – from school days –
where you CANNOT resist the temptation to interact with fools….
It has been your undoing in many ways – yet you persists…!!!
Shiite man – that is DOMPEY you talking to….
…somewhat like AC with haemorrhoids.
Come on!!!
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@Jeff
I was going to leave you alone.
I wanted to hear what others think about UWI’s initial response to Jamaican government, but failed to raised a single comment.
Going to throw the ball in your court and hope you give us your thoughts at some time in the future.
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I agree with your comments about “I’m good”. When someone asks “How are you?” the question really relies on the context. The answer “good” would mostly be incorrect unless the person had previously been “bad” in some way, say they’d had cancer diagnosed, or had been accused of being badly judged in court.
“How are you?” only demands one answer, “How are you?” as you shake hands in a formal situation.
If you are close friends, you could launch on a description of your life in general.
Really, it depends on how you ask the question.
HOW are you…?
How ARE you?
How are YOU?
The answer is more about saying “Well, thanks, how are you? Not about announcing to the world in general, I AM GOOD!
w
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