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e_hutchinson_gorilla_cincinnati_blackThere is a joke that made the rounds sometime ago about this fellow who woke up one morning and discovered that a gorilla was on his roof. It is arguably in sufficiently good taste to bear repetition even in a Sunday family newspaper such as this.

So the fellow looks up the yellow pages and, sure enough, there’s an ad for “Gorilla Removers”. He calls the number, and the gorilla remover says, “I will be there in 30 minutes. The gorilla remover arrives and gets out of his van. He’s got with him a ladder, a baseball bat, a shotgun and a huge, ferocious looking dog of uncertain progeny.

“What are you going to do?” the homeowner asks.

“I’m going to put up this ladder against the roof, then I’m going to go up there and knock the gorilla off the roof with the bat. When the gorilla falls off, the dog is trained to grab the gorilla’s testicles and bite them. The gorilla will then be subdued enough for me to lock him in the cage in the back of the van”, says the gorilla remover, and hands the fellow the shotgun.

“What do I need the shotgun for?” asks the homeowner.

The gorilla remover replies, “If the gorilla should knock ME off the roof, you must immediately shoot the dog.”

There was no need for a gorilla remover on May 29 this year at the Cincinnati Zoo when a three-year-old child fell into the enclosure housing Harambe, an imposing 17-year-old silverback gorilla. Rather, the call would have been for a child remover. In these days of the new journalism, where every incident becomes immediate fair game for social media communication, a video of the event went viral.

The outcome was the shooting of the gorilla by the zoo authorities in order to protect the boy from possibly being mauled to death by the gorilla who, it was claimed, could crush a coconut with his bare hands.

One aftermath of this outcome is that this ostensibly sensible decision proved not to be the popular one, as some of those who had no problem with this majestic animal being held in captivity for populist entertainment, nevertheless wondered about the lack of value placed upon its life in the incident.

Some argued that the child was in no clear and imminent danger, given similar previous incidents between gorillas and small children and the almost maternal treatment ostensibly displayed by Harambe towards the child here on some occasions during the episode.

This, alas, is a non-starter. The gorilla is classified in law as an animal “ferae naturae” (wild by nature), a categorization that makes the owner strictly liable for any harm that it causes, whether the animal has previously exhibited such a propensity or not. I am not aware that the law in Cincinnati differs from this. Thus, circuses and zoos are liable if one of their wild animals should be the cause of injury to an individual. We may surmise therefore that the zoo authorities may have acted out of a sense of avoiding possible liability to the parents of the child and the consequential negative reputational damage to the establishment as much as out of a desire to avoid the nightmare scenario of such a frightfully strong animal rending an infant from limb to limb in full view of horrified onlookers.

Indeed, those moments when the animal suddenly dragged the child through the water by his feet were far from tender and drew an audible collective gasp from the spectators. This merely served to demonstrate further the unpredictability of an animal of this classification and, hence, that too of a probable happy outcome to the entire affair.

Confronted with the argument that it was a straight contest for the primacy of a life between that of a human and that of a magnificent specimen from an allegedly endangered species, those against the destruction of the gorilla naturally turned their attention to the mother and her “negligent” supervision of the child. Last Friday morning, I watched an intriguing discussion on CNN between two female lawyers who held contrasting points of view on this matter.

Over the years, I have had consciously to warn first-year students of the law of negligence that liability for harm should not be presumed as established simply because there is the existence of harm to an individual. The victim must still establish that the elements of the tort are severally satisfied in order for there to be liability. One of the discussants appeared to have committed this elementary error, being prepared to attribute culpability to the mother simply because the child fell into the enclosure. She would not be swayed from this view by the fact that the mother was also simultaneously attending to her other children and sought to confirm her assertion by relating the fact that such an incident had not occurred in 38 years, assumedly the period for which the zoo had been in existence.

It is clear that if the mother is to be held civilly liable at all for anything. It would have to be to the zoo for causing the death of its gorilla through a failure properly to control the wanderings of her son. This determination is likely to involve complex issues such as whether the “chain of causation” between the mother’s negligence of not keeping a proper lookout and the death of Harambe remained unbroken despite the zoo’s meditated decision to shoot the gorilla, or whether this action on the zoo’s part was constrained by the consequence of the mother’s inadvertence in the first place, leaving the zoo without a free choice in the matter.

Criminal liability of the mother, on the other hand, would be based on some statutory provision to that effect, but this should also require that the mother acted without due care and attention for the safety of the child. I have not discovered such legislation in Cincinnati, but that in Tasmania is apposite. The Children, Young Persons and their Families Act 1997, provides, by section 91:-

(1) A person who has a duty of care in respect of a child must not intentionally take, or fail to take, action that could reasonably be expected to result in –

(a) the child suffering significant harm as a result of physical injury or sexual abuse; or

(b) the child suffering emotional or psychological harm of such a kind that the child’s emotional or intellectual development is, or is likely to be, significantly damaged; or

(c) the child’s physical development or health being significantly harmed.

Penalty:

Fine not exceeding 50 penalty units or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years, or both.

      (2) Proceedings for an offence under subsection (1) may only be brought after consultation with the Secretary.

      (3) A person may be guilty of an offence under subsection (1) even though the child was protected from harm by the action of another person.


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205 responses to “The Jefferson Cumberbatch Column – “The Gorilla and the Boy””

  1. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @Sargeant if you read my post carefully you would be able to answer your own question …”How did you meander onto that slippery slope of apportioning blame to Master Rice’s parent?”

    I drew a very simple reference to parental ‘carelessness’ and its consequences. My remarks did not place me on any slippery slope so I will not join you on one now. LOLL.

    As I also mentioned in a simialr context, to what ‘benefice’ is all that palaver about lack of training, toy manufacturers ad nauseum when your child is dead ???

    It’s early morn/late night and being less than invigorated now I’ll borrow again. Your comments suggest that you want big-brother to provide ‘the pampers, wet wipes and also hold your hands while you change the diapers too’.

    Don’t blame the realistic toy gun. Simply don’t buy the damn things.

    Regardless of the quality of the police training, focus on your child’s training. Ensure it’s the best possible.

    And surely do not expect any police officer to be anything less than the product of the community from which we all are citizens.

    Tamir is dead. All that you have said is thus irrelevant in that very specific context because it will not bring him back. And neither will any amount of condemnation of the police dept.

    So with respect if that gun had been dropped from his hand as soon as he saw that cop car (parental admonitions about guns and police) he would be alive today.

    That zoo lad could have cracked his skull when he fell over 10 feet into that moat. His mom left home to go to the zoo but apparently did not carefully plan with her son’s adventurous spirit top of mind.

    We all rue the careless mistakes we make. When compounded with ‘negligence’ by others they can be deadly.

    Our burden as parents is to remove OUR errors from the equation…in that way the other independent negligent actions do not have a countervailing action upon which to cause a deadly reaction.

    Seems simple to me….so as an example why would I buy a realistic toy gun in a city in the US for ANY child….that seems absolutely careless to me

    CODA: I not suggesting any ill-will towards the Rices as I have no idea where or how Tamir got that ‘toy weapon’ ; nor do I know what or how they guided their son. AND neither am I – despite the investigatory findings- absolving the police of wrong doing.


  2. @DPD
    I drew a very simple reference to parental ‘carelessness’ and its consequences. My remarks did not place me on any slippery slope so I will not join you on one now
    +++++++++
    Why in your “simple reference’ did you feel the need to inject any opinion on Rice’s upbringing as an example of “parental carelessness”. How do you know what he was taught? How do you know if his mother told him “Don’t play with that outside, just indoors”? In trying to make a point you made an assumption and I followed up that assumption with tangible examples of Civic/Corporate “carelessness” that you label as “Big Brother”. The rest of the response is mere folderol (pedantic dribble has been used) to buttress your remarks.

    Rice is dead and no amount of Monday morning quarterbacking will change that fact. His grieving relatives accepted a six-million-dollar settlement from the City of Cleveland and the US Dept. of Justice report found that its PD had a pattern of using unreasonable force in violation of the Fourth Amendment; but since we are on that subject I will say that his death warrant was sealed when the 9/11 call came in about “a young black male with a gun”, it was the same fate that befell John Crawford when he went into his local Walmart and took an Air Rifle (a sale item) from the shelves and held it while in the store

  3. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @Sargeant, I can see that YOU want to make a statement on the inequality of race justice in the US and use my ‘WORDS’ as your foundation. You are deliberately omitting clear ‘disclaimers’ to make your point.

    I said pellucidly (I thought): “I am not dumping on their tragic lost but these are harsh facts”. And in last post: ” I [am] not suggesting any ill-will towards the Rices as I have no idea where or how Tamir got that ‘toy weapon’ ; nor do I know what or how they guided their son.”

    I succinctly said (again I thought, clearly): “Our burden as parents is to remove OUR errors from the equation….”

    Bad things will happen even when all the right precautions are taken. I cited examples when some very bad things happened and suggested that all precautions may not have been taken. I have no brief to fault a family who had to bury their 12 year old son. NONE.

    If the Rices did everything right and yet Tamir was called away then we can call that fate.
    Yet their situation still screams for the attention of ALL parents.

    The summer is upon us and I recall the horrendous circumstances of summers past when Bajan youth drowned from beach frolics. Can I prevent my son from going to the beach with his friends. I could. But does that mean he may still not slip out and go.

    If something happens I will still blame myself because I DID NOT get through to him. He did not understand I wanted him to very cautious and not take foolhardy chances…it was not that I wanted to prevent him from chilling with his school-mates & friends.

    So in turn clearly I am not getting through to you. Please don’t drown in your screed.

    Let me see if a quote by the blogmaster from another blog gets the message in.

    “The problem some of you have is comprehension. The labour party’s concerns in St. Lucia was about the conversations Wickham injects into the political landscape… It […] was not about polling methodology per se”

    So my conversation is about my being Tamir’s dad one or two steps removed. Mine is a hurt. not a criticism for criticism sake. It’s about us parents doing everything not to be distracted for those few minutes it takes to jump into a zoo enclosure or saving our kids from out-of-control cops.

    That Wal-mart thing is a whole other story. Adults need to save their OWN lives and think as adults. I posted here months ago a note I saw in an online paper about racist behaviour in Long Island, NY. That sir was a cautious reminder to the Bajans here who travel extensively and may visit that lovely and sophisticated suburb of NYC: Don’t let your guard down even where you may perceive it is so copesetate.

    Clerly that Walmart gentleman (and Walmart as a corp) needed some serious guidance too.

    Our burden is to remove OUR errors Mr Sargeant. It can save OUR life. What is so difficult to comprehend about that!

  4. Well Well & Consequences Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences

    Same fate that would befall Pedant in the US….or Canada, or UK, or Australia, or New Zealand, or Germany etc as a black man..

    Dude thinks he is isolated and nothing can befall him or his…living in la-la land….lol


  5. @ Jeff Cumberbatch,

    Thank you for your reply. You have explained yourself very well. However was it necessary for you to insult me and other bloggers in the process by referring to us as the “uninitiated”.

    Jeff you are free to write whatever you please however you undermine your integrity as a professional by engaging in such language. I have warned you before about your petulance.

    We on BU expect a man of your standing to remain aloof from the bitterness, rancor and spitefulness of some of the bloggers on this forum.


  6. @ac June 6, 2016 at 10:49 PM “Why would the Zoo find it necessary to go ahead with improvement if they felt that barriers as constructed did not play a part in the child falling into the pit.”

    Because the zoo is an accredited zoo and had met all U.S. standards for gorilla enclosures.

    Then…

    A 3 year old boy breached those standards.

    The standards for this zoo and all others must be reviewed, but understand that it will take months to complete the review and a year or two to implement the new standards.

    So in the interim if you go to a zoo

    Don’t climb the wall, and don’t jump into the moat


  7. To Pedantic Dribbler and others:

    I plead guilty. As you know River Bay is very beautiful and there is no barrier. Once upon a time a long time ago i took a kid to River Bay. I had no idea the kid was afraid of crabs, the size of a dime, that is until kid saw crab, dropped my hand and took off (not inland) but towards the sea/edge of the cliff where the drop is about 100 feet, and the sea is very rough.

    I did not go back to River Bay for decades.

    I still get cold sweats when I think about it.

    And Dibbler in this instance it would have been a fatal error to have the kid walking 3 feet in front of me.

    Raising children is hard, very, very hard.

  8. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    @Exclaimer,

    “Uninitiated” is not an insult. Legal “illiterate” might be, but I would never use that epithet!


  9. Here is an article which gives an insight of how poor judgement from the the highest level trickling down to the lowest level could have contributed to the breach in security at the Cincinnati Zoo

    CINCINNATI — Zoos across the country are often left to interpret how to make exhibits as safe as possible for visitors due to vague federal rules.
    While federal law requires barriers at zoos, it does not specify height requirement or materials to be used, which can lead to people getting into restricted areas like the child who was rescued last week from a gorilla at the Cincinnati Zoo.
    Aside from saying “some means of deterring public contact with animals must be in place,” the American Zoo Association, which inspects its accredited members like the Cincinnati Zoo, does not set specifications.
    Likewise, the federal Animal Welfare Act also requires zoos have a barrier that “restricts physical contact between the public and nonhuman primates,” but its specifications focus on the care and treatment of the animals.
    The U.S. Department of Agriculture, which enforces the Animal Welfare Act, has broad discretion to administer those standards, said James F. Gesualdi, special professor of law at Hofstra University and an expert on animals and the law.
    “Where they can be problematic is there can be differences of opinion as to what may be required,” Gesualdi told news outlet Reuters.
    Licensed facilities are inspected by the USDA, on average, once a year, according to Tanya Espinosa, a spokeswoman for the federal agency.
    “We do not compare facilities. We look at each facility individually to determine whether that facility is in compliance with the Animal Welfare Act,” she said.
    “We are looking to make sure that the animals are being fed the appropriate feed, that the enclosures are clean, that there is water, that animals are receiving veterinary care, that they are in the appropriate-sized enclosures …” she said.
    Inspectors document noncompliances when infractions are found. The Animal Welfare Act requires a date be given to allow the facility time to fix the noncompliance, Espinosa said, however, there is no monetary penalty attached to noncompliances.


  10. Another interesting bit to come to the annals of US jurisprudence (or not) is the case of the little boy who was taken by an Alligator at a Disney Resort.

    I suspect that Disney will settle quickly.

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/15/alligator-two-year-old-child-disney-world-hotel-florida


  11. Another worrisome breach of security.this time ending with gruesome details. So sad

  12. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @Sargeant, this Disney affair is one that the average Bajan can’t identify wid cause the only alligators in Barbados comes in shoes or handbags; and the legal system runs based on who you are it seems so they will not identify with that aspect either.

    But I think your ‘or not’ works perfectly. You think a settlement works in any way? Personally I can only perceive it really makes no difference.

    As a parent I am devastated that a man who wrestles an alligator to get his 2-year old child from its mouth – and does not succeed- or that a mum who dives into the water to save that same child will ever be properly functioning again.

    All because a bunch of seemingly clueless folks did not see it wise to have protective steel-grade wire fencing below water level in that lagoon- play area to prevent any alligators from have a young child as a snack.

    This is a part of the world were alligators are very plentiful in waterways so although they are No SWIMMING signs and no similar incident ever happened this should have been prevented.

    I have harped before that we must always stress to kids about being alert even in the safest of places and I have blamed parents for lack of care, but I can’t blame the parents here, ‘ No SWIMMING” does not tell me possible “ALLIGATOR SNACK AREA”.

    This is a very tough one.

    Businesses must take ALL practical precautions to protect children in an entertainment area. I am shocked that the Disney Corp. with all its long years of operations could have one of its patrons caught unawares like this.


  13. The parents have my sympathy and condolences.

    It pains me to make the following point.

    There will their be no outcry on the death of several allgators to find a dead child.

    All people value the lives of their children. Parents of all colors feel naguish when their children are in harms way.


  14. @Dee Word

    The reports suggest the 2-year old was not mauled.

    Agree that the authorities should have anticipated an incident like this happening.

    Gorilla and now alligator.

  15. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @Gazer, that too is a very valid point.

    To build up the vast pleasure industry in those areas of Florida means that the natural gator habitats are being affected and encroached upon. Thus you have the ‘wondrous’ Fish and Wildlife peoples doing their thing to ensure the alligators are supposedly protected even as they are displaced.

    As long as millions of tourists can come an enjoy themselves in the ‘Sunshine State’ and spend those billions of $$ all is good.

    So right now the noise about the killing of several gators to determine which one did the deed (as if they can determine that – as the child’s body was intact they say – or that it makes a difference) is their way of barn door closing.

    The fact that the child is dead because of negligence by these same business and conservation executives must be absolved by this frenzy of useless killing of the gators.

    Absolutely no different to the same comparative behaviour seen in BIM daily.

  16. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    David, thankfully he was not. Yet tragically he was still the MaC snack of the day…no bites of flesh taken but surely some deep teeth marks I suspect.

    I absolutely would have a Sig-Sauer moment if this had happened to my kith and kin.

    Falling into a gorilla enclosure is one thing but an alligator plucking my son from the shallow water on the shore of a lagoon at an entertainment park!!!

    From the legal perspective it would be amazing to talk of damages or negligence in a case like this and compare to the awards in cases where a person places a hot coffee cup in their own lap.

    First of all, is there civil negligence and if yes what will damages do…well actually they would pay for the years of psychiatric counseling.

    Alas.

  17. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    I AM NOT TOO BRIGHT BUT EVEN I KNOW THAT ALLIGATORS MIGHT BE EXPECTED TO EMERGE FROM ANY BODY OF WATER IN FLORIDA………INCLUDING RETENTION PONDS

    I AM NOT VERY BRIGHT BUT EVEN I KNOW THAT A SIGN THAT SAYS “NO SWIMMING” ALSO MEANS NO WADING IN THE WATER ALSO

    ALLIGATORS MAY BE FOUND IN BACKYARD SWIMMING POOLS AND THEY CAN APPEAR FROM HIDING ALMOST ANYWHERE IN FLORIDA

    I WOULD THINK THAT IN MY DEEP IGNORANCE THAT I WOULD KEEP MY LIKKLE BOY OUT OF ANY AND ALL LAGOONS IN FLORIDA………BUT WHAT DO I KNOW?

    MY ATTEMPTS TO KEEP MY BOYS OUT OF HARMS WAY PROBABLY EXPLAINS WHY THEY HAVE LIVED SO LONG

    ITS BEST FOR ME TO READ THE BULLSHIT I SEE ON BU WHERE MORONS TRY TO SOUND INTELLIGENT
    IT IS CLEAR THAT THE IDIOT WHO IS HERE BULLSHITTING HAS NEVER BEEN TO THE DISNEY RESORTS AND DEFINITELY KNOWS NAUGHT ABOUT WHAT HE SPEAKS

    WHY HA THIS NOT HAPPENED BEFORE AT THIS SITE? BECAUSE THE GUESTS HAVE BEEN CAREFUL TO EXHIBIT THE NECESSARY COMMON SENSE TO OBEY SIGNS AND ORDERS THAT ARE CLEARLY DISPLAYED ALL AROUND

    IT SEEMS THAT AMUSEMENT PARKS HAVE TO DO MORE TO PROTECT THEMSELVES FROM STUPID PATRONS

    WATCH THE BOVINE EXCREMENT FLOW NOW

  18. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    BIRD BRAIN

    TELL US WHY WAS THE FOOLISH MAN WADING WITH HIS SON IN the shallow water on the shore of a lagoon at an entertainment park IN FLORIDA WHERE THERE ARE SIGNS AGAINST SWIMMING!!!

    WHO DOES THAT? EXCEPT A TOTAL JACK ASS?
    WATCH THE BOVINE EXCREMENT FLOW NOW

    HOW DO YOU DEFEND THE INDEFENSIBLE.

    I DONT SEE BOYS IN FLORIDA PLAYING IN RETENTION PONDS (LAGOONS)


  19. @DPD
    I was deliberately dispassionate in the short submission as this would be very difficult for any parent, now social media has chimed in and blame is being doled out to both the Resort and the parents.

    Alligators are all over Florida, recently I read that there are even Nile Crocs there, notwithstanding the warning about “No swimming”, I don’t think Disney wants the adverse publicity of a law suit.

  20. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    GP, I really do try to avoid responding to you because your demeanor is often one of arrogance that dismisses any ideas other than your own. But what the hell….

    It is known that Florida is gator country. Pellucid. And yes no one was so killed in many years. Is that a valid reason not to have precautions as time progresses. Things change.

    It is noted that the park had various types of precautions like persons tasked to check for gators and so on…yet one got where none apparently had gone before. There was a gator killing.

    Your superior logic suggests that the parents were solely expected to appreciate this but the operators who were there daily for years did not have one water sensor or other technical solution to protect their guests in this gatoor-fested place…other of course that the awesome No SWIMMING sign.

    A kid got under an enclosure where none had gone before and fell into a Gorrilla enclosure. The Zoo should not have been tamper-children-proof is your comparative position!

    You are being your arrogant asinine self to opine that a NO SWIMMING sign is any type of warning about alligator danger.

    As a doctor who evolved through a drug industry that had to child-proof their containers it is highly amusing to read your comments in this scenario. It clearly indicates that you dismiss logic to suit your likes and dislikes rather than the basic facts.

    I am not here to match wits with you surely.

    I have no problems with your opinions, brother. But don’t expect me to acquiesce to you because you are older, got a bunch more degrees or is a doctor though.

    So if that NO SWIMMING sign suggests to you that a two year old wading a few feet on the lagoon shore of a man-made park and being snatched by a gator is acceptable then clearly once again your superior scholarship wins the day.

    Bye, bye!

  21. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @Sargeant, I have avoided reading the brickbats to the parents as the details as I read them did not cast the blame there. I was critical of the parent in the Harambee incident as I thought she planned poorly for her zoo trip resulting in the near-death of her son. This does not appear to be in any way related to parental neglect or being careless per se.

    Those parents could not for one moment ever contemplate such an occurrence; particularly when apparently NO ONE at Disney did!!!

    I have never been to this amusement park but I have been to others and traveled to Florida and around the country and world often with my family. Signage and warnings are important.

    I would completely agree with you that Disney does not want the publicity.


  22. Gators and water goes hand in hand in Florida.


  23. @Sargeant June 15, 2016 at 9:50 PM “I don’t think Disney wants the adverse publicity of a law suit.”

    Whether Disney likes it or not there will be a law suit. Social media is already full of pictures of an adjacent hotel which has signs posted saying “NO SWIMMING. BEWARE OF CROCODILES.”

    Ask yourself why Disney did not have such signs.


  24. @Georgie Porgie June 15, 2016 at 8:00 PM Cuhdear Dr. GP. Not all of us are Barbados scholars like you. Some of us are genuinely simple, and we do require more care, more hand holding. I’ve been to Disney and I am not at all sure that I was alligator aware while there. I was only there for 5 days, not the 20 years you have spent in Florida getting to know the place.

    And “No swimming” can’t necessarily be interpreted to mean no wading. There are places where I have waded, but would not swim, since the feet are tougher than privates. i have put my tough feet in water, that I would not dream of putting my privates in.

    That may not make sense to a doctor, but it is common practice among us lay people.

    That is why we are not doctors.

  25. Georgie Porgie Avatar

    THE NO SWIMMING SIGNS WORKED FOR MANY YEARS…BUT
    COMMON SENSE IS APPARENTLY NOT COMMON ANY MORE FOR SOME

    YOU COME TO FL AND YOU DONT KNOW THAT GATORS ARE ALL ABOUT IN EVERY POND? ..THEN YOU ARE A DUMMY….YOU ARE A FOOLISH TWIT

    THE CHILDREN OF OUR FRIENDS WHO HAVE FREQUENTED THE SAME RESORT ARE ALIVE

    THE CHILDREN OF ALL THE FOLK WHO HAVE BEEN ON THAT BEACH BUT DID NOT SPLASH IN THE WATER ARE STILL ALIVE

    THEY DID NOT ENTER OR SPLASH IN THE WATER AT DUSK

    THE CHILD OF THE DUMMY WHO DIDNT NOT UNDERSTAND NO SWIMMING MEANS DONT GO IN THE WATER IS DEAD

    I AM WRONG AND ILLOGICAL BUT THE DUMMY’S CHILD IS DEAD! DEAD! DEAD! THE CHILD IS VERY VERY DEAD.

    DISNEY CAN CARRY UP THE ANNUAL FEE BY 5-10$ PER PERSON NEXT YEAR AND RAISE ANY MONEY THE COURTS AWARDS………….BUT THE DUMMY’S CHILD IS DEAD AS A DOOR NAIL.OK? DESPITE ALL THE LOGIC BY THE PEDANTIC MORON——THE PICKNEY DEAD!

    THE PEDANTIC DUMMY ADMITS I have never been to this amusement park BUT HE HAS ALL THE ANSWERS. I HAVE BEEN OK. GOING TO THE PARKS IS THE FAMILY’S CHIEF PASSTIME

    HEAR THE PEDANTIC JACK ASS AGAIN Those parents could not for one moment ever contemplate such an occurrence; particularly when apparently NO ONE at Disney did!!!
    BECAUSE IT HAS NOT HAPPEN ONCE THERE IN 45 YEARS EVEN THOUGH IT HAPPENS ELSEWHERE IN FL. SIMPLY BECAUSE VISITORS DO AS THEY ARE TOLD BESIDES THE SIGNS

    ONLY A JACKASS LETS HIS SON WADE AND SPLASH IN A POND IN FLORIDA………SIGNS OR NO SIGNS ah lie?

    we have had a bad week in FL THIS WEEK
    1 THE BULLERS AND WICKERS GET SHOOT UP ON SUNDAY
    2 THE BOY GOT DROWNED BY THE GATOR YESTERDAY ….AND
    3 CHIEF SITTING BULLA COMING TO TOWN ON THURSDAY

    I GLAD WE MOVED OUT OF ORLANDO 14 YEARS AGO.


  26. When the travel agents are selling Florida holidays they NEVER mention that there are millions of wild alligators in Florida. They NEVER mention that there is one alligators for every 15 people. They NEVER mention that there are alligators inside the artificial Disney parks.

    if they did would anybody book a Florida holiday?


  27. Even disney would have to admit that their security was slacked especially for an organisation that aims at attracting diversity to a world wide audience one would have thought that there warning signs would be reflective of diverse languages another mistake which if not corrected could at some time drag Disney under a nightmare of further litigation in the event a similar incidence occur


  28. All the warning signs suggest that Disney is now drowning in litigation borne out of incompetency who would have thought that an organisation this is flooded with the best brains could be so easily tilted by the dragging of an alligator bite sounds like some horror out of a Disney Halloween movie


  29. The thing is “best brains” are accustomed to believing that child raising is real, real easy.

    Because if you are a “best bran” you rarely have to do your child raising.

    You can always subcontract it to a spouse of “lesser brains” or to a nanny etc.

    But in reality child raising, especially the daily looking after of toddlers and teens is the hardest job in the world.

    It demands that the “lesser brains” who do child raising be “on duty” at all times, as lapses can be deadly.


  30. For what it’s worth here is an opinion from CNN’s legal analyst.

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/15/opinions/hotels-may-avoid-liability-alligator-attack-danny-cevallos/index.html


  31. @Sargeant

    Seems a reasonable opinion. We wait to hear what the hotel knows.

  32. Georgie Porgie Avatar

    NEXT THEY HAVE TO PUT UP SIGNS SAYING BE WARNED MOSQUITOES CAUSE ZIKA

    PREGNANT ZIKA FEMALES MAY BEAR MICROCEPHALIC CHILDREN

    SINCE ZIKA CAN BE SPREAD BY MOSQUITOES THERE SHOULD BE NO FOOPING WHILE YOU ARE IN RESIDENCE AT THIS HOTEL

  33. Georgie Porgie Avatar

    All the warning signs suggest that Disney is now drowning in litigation borne out of incompetency who would have thought that an organisation this is flooded with the best brains could be so easily tilted by the dragging of an alligator bite sounds like some horror out of a Disney Halloween movie

    AS I HAVE SAID ELSEWHERE
    1 DISNEY WILL RAISE TICKETS 10-15 -20s
    2 THEY WILL PUT UP SIGNS ALLOVER
    3 FOLK WILL CONTINUE TO THRONG THE PARKS
    4 DISNEY WILL WRITE OFF ANY MONEY THEY PAY OUT AGAINST TAX MOST LIKELY
    5 THEY WILL PROBABLY END UP NOT LOSING A THING ON THIS INCIDENT
    IN THE INTERIM MORONS ON BU WILL GET HEART ATTACKS AND BLOW A GASKET ABOUT THIS ISSUE ah lie?


  34. This is a public relation disaster for Disney no doubt about it and even if there are laws which give them the benefit of doubt there is no way that Disney can come out unscathed by remaining silent as if by turning a deaf ear to public opinion and not see a significant drop in visitors sales


  35. GP the only person that seems to on the verge of having a heart attack is You You are shouting ! screaming And hollering uncontrollably seems like you have some kind of vested interest in Disney
    Disney is a known as a worldwide conglomerate who invites people all over the world to visit its theme parks One would except that Disney would have covered all their security bases especially knowing that there was danger lurking in and around its parks and playgrounds where children can access or be in easy reach
    You seem to be oblivious of that fact in the same way Disney was ,

  36. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    David, your post re the erecting of signs is sad and the worst type of admission on an error after the fact. There is no way that this resort will be shuttered because of the poor decision making by its bosses because then we would be penalizing an entire community and the lives of thousands of people because of the avarice and ‘negligence’ of a few.

    This plays directly to a discussion I had with @Pieces re bad decisions made by local bosses and the expectations of the average worker and too the reaction of the community.

    The post of the legal analysis was excellent. But one thing the lawyer touched on but did not dive into was what Disney knew in the context of other signage at other properties or around the state at other lagoons.

    From all the evidence presented thus far it seems clear that Disney deliberately did not post signs previously re ‘Beware Alligators’ because they did not want to create any sense of fear to affect the supreme sense of family rest and relaxation at their resorts.

    In the piece above an expert said that Disney probably never expected an alligator to attack someone and remarked “I think this was more a failure of imagination than anything else.” Yet, it was also reported that “… numerous tourists have come forward sharing stories of alligator sightings at the resort and questioning why Disney didn’t do more to inform tourists about the gators. One employee said he had told management at the Grand Floridian the area should be fenced off.”

    There was no lack of imagination. There was simply lack of a proper duty of care.

    Now, we will have signs. When a comprehensive review from the Florida Fish and Wildlife authorities and Disney to install ‘nature friendly’ steel grating to shutter underwater the mouth of the lagoon intake waterway and suitable above water barriers or sensors to assure the absence of gators in that particular children-friendly lagoon area was the thing to do. As that employee and others long suggested, I am sure.

    That could have saved a life…but here comes all this effort after the fact. Sad and ridiculous.

    But no one would dream to shut down this theme park because of ‘callous’ oversight. Would we shut down Maloney due to his callous oversight. No and No, of course.

    Nor does anyone improve their governance practices, so we will have more Maloney type bad behaviour and many more government facilitated Disney type corporate deaths…and life goes on.

    Just raise the fees or pad the contracts more to pay the damages and fines and let’s get back to normal…

  37. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @David, as I wrote about what Disney knew and when, in response to your post I was thinking of the FBI and 9/11 and how it was thought initially that it was a lack of imagination that planes could be used as ‘weapons of terror’ until it was revealed that agents had in fact warned of such a possibility.

    So this story JUMPED out at me: “Florida gun owner says he warned FBI about Omar Mateen after he tried buying body armor and ammo weeks before Orlando massacre”.

    When the reports first circulated about the attempted armour purchase I was absolutely confused why there was no ‘alert’.

    I could not fathom how an Arab looking man in a US store asking about body armour would not send an IMMEDIATE profiling alarm to the head of any of the red-bloodied White males who normally run those business.

    So now I know my faith in people (like me who consciously and sub-consciously profile) is solid and not misplaced. I was getting concerned about my common-sense radar. LOLL.

    Why he was not stopped, therefore, is a totally other story for another time.

    That too an interesting perspective of gun-store owners which the same common-sense radar tells me that something is amiss.


  38. @Dee Word

    Then it is fair t say a class action suit maybe in the offing. We often criticize the developed world for being too litigious but there is something to be said for ordinary citizens exercising rights vested in to them in the las of the land. How else can you hold the system accountable with a view of making it better?

  39. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    David, I am no lawyer but that would be a difficult ‘class’ to certify I would suggest.

    Folks were not robbed of their pleasure because of alligator sightings per se and of course the death of this child is not related to a class.

    But I get your point. Disney has been selling a somewhat tainted product all these years. On that I would completely agree.

    Please tell your esteemed doctor friend to ease up…oh lawd. LOLL.


  40. @Dee Word

    It is America and it will be tested unlike Barbados, that is the point!


  41. Every Floridian knows about Alligators and their ubiquitous presence in and around water, however that knowledge is not necessarily shared with visitors who arrive from cornfield Nebraska seeking a sunny vacation at a family resort.

    Does Disney require its guests to sign a waiver absolving it of any liability if any of them gets attacked by an Alligator on its property? If no why should a father expect that his child would be seen as a potential meal if he was wading in a man- made Lake “no swimming” signs or not? This incident happened in the evening and the Alligator could easily have leaped out of the water and grabbed the child if he was meandering at the water’s edge. It has been reported that Disney removes Alligators from the “lake” when they reach a certain size so they know that there is the potential for larger animals to be there and the fact that Disney is now posting Alligator warning signs is a sign of some liability even if nothing has happened for 50 years.

    I say Disney will settle.

  42. Georgie Porgie Avatar

    sing sing sing
    signage or no signage

    THE STUPID MAN LOST HIS SON FOR LETTING HIM WADE IN THE WATER
    THE BOY IS DEAD
    STUPIDITY HAS A HIGH PRICE

    RE Disney has been selling a somewhat tainted product all these years

    GUESS WHAT THERE ARE THRONGS THERE TODAY ALREADY

    SIGNS OR NO SIGNS

    STUPID PARENTS WILL BE MORE CAREFUL FROM NOW

    RE Just raise the fees or pad the contracts more to pay the damages and fines and let’s get back to normal…
    AND YOU CANT DO A THING ABOUT IT EXCEPT BRAY AND TRY TO SOUND INTELLIGENT

    I GOING DOWN HERE TO DISNEY

    AND TO CHECK OUT THE SITE OF THE BULLETS AND THE BULLERS

  43. Georgie Porgie Avatar

    I say Disney will settle.
    THEY PROBABLY WILL
    THEN THEY WILL RAISE THEIR FEES
    THEY WILL MOST LIKELY HAVE A NET GAIN


  44. Out of court settlement would suffice the parties. Disney would not want any further damage done to its “World” coming out of a long drawn out court proceedings. The parents have the upper hand in the negotiations

  45. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    WONT COST DISNEY A THING

  46. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    BREAKING NEWS

    DISNEY IS SETTLING
    BOY ARISES FROM THE DEAD
    ALL ALLIGATORS IN THE STATE CONDEMNED TO DEATH


  47. Hateful pie, anybody? That’s about all on the menu. Every day. All day. Including SUNDAYS!

  48. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    LOL
    YOU DONT LIKE THE FACT THAT DISNEY IS SETTLING? AND THAT ALL ALLIGATORS IN THE STATE CONDEMNED TO DEATH ? MURDAH

    THE LIKKLE BOY ONLY WADED HE DIDNT BREAK THE NON SWIMMING RULE……….BUT YET HE DEAD OH ME AM

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