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Leave Cricket to Players and Board

Submitted by Buddy Cal

west_indies_cricketLuke 13; 7-9. Parable of the fig tree. “Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard. Behold, three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down.

[…]

Why cumbereth it the ground? And he answering said unto him. Lord, let it alone this year also, that I shall dig about it and dune it and if it bear fruit well: And if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.”

“I support WICB President Dave Cameron for not allowing the Governments of the Caribbean to dictate to the Board what to do. I have said before that politicians are elected to manage the affairs of countries; keep them out of West Indies cricket.” Reverend Errington Massiah – Weekend Nation Friday Nov27, 2015.

Preacher, I can quote the scriptures also; 1st Kings 21:21. “Behold I will bring evil upon thee and I will take away  thy prosperity, and will cut off from Ahab him that pisseth  against the wall and him that is shut and left in Israel.”

Acts 9:5. “And he said who art thou Lord? And the Lord said. I am Jesus whom thou persecutest; it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.”

How can the preacher admit that ‘the team is no good’. They have lost more tests than any other team since 1995 when they lost the world championship to Australia. Caribbean Governments are elected by millions of people. The WICB is elected by 14 members.

Yet, despite Caribbean/UWI 2002 cricket conference held at the Cave Hill campus June 2-4 with over 100 delegates drawn from  as far as the US Virgin Islands; the Patterson, Wilkins, and now Barriteau reports , the WICB refuses to implement anything. Furthermore, of the ten test playing grounds , CARICOM governments have built 8 and can’t have a say? Well let the WICB play on their grounds.

88 responses to “Leave Cricket to Players and Board”

  1. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    A government does not simply “build” a stadium. The funds of the taxpayers do, either directly or indirectly. I suspect that those vocal politicians are hoping that any reversal in our cricketing fortunes after their intervention will be to their electoral advantage

  2. David Avatar
    David

    A very strong position Jeff. It appears you do not entertain the idea that the political directorate in the region, several who played cricket or are fans, do not have an honorable intention by their desire to intervene?

  3. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    @David,

    Yes, they might mean well as fans, but they are seeking to use their political power to achieve the result they want. That is why FIFA and, to a lesser extent, the ICC, do not stand political intervention in sports administration.

  4. David Avatar
    David

    @Jeff

    Perhaps you need to consider the West Indies cricket team represents multiple sovereigns. There is an unusual dynamic that the associations you cited do not have to deal.

  5. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    To what extent do Caribbean governments SUBSIDISE West Indies Cricket ?

  6. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ Jeff
    FIFA, IOC, ICC etc do not want government (or other) intervention in sport administration because it would show up the fact that they steal and play mafia games even more so than the damn governments….Did FIFA not ban the use of COURTS by officials too?

    There is NO GOOD REASON why Governments should not play a role of AUDIT and governance (ensuring fairness, transparency and adherence to established rules) by these trans-national bodies.
    …which is why Loretta Lynch has now been able to expose so much shiite in FIFA.

    …and the only difference with the others (IOC, ICC etc) is that no one is looking or auditing yet…

  7. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    Bushie,

    Exactly!

  8. Artaxerxes Avatar
    Artaxerxes

    It is rather “mind boggling” how we tend to “shift the goal post” as a means to substantiate our personal position on an issue. On the issue of changing the governance system, we are encouraged to let politicians know they were elected to serve the populace and “not the other way around”.

    However, on the issue of cricket, we have the same people suggesting the CARICOM prime ministers were justified in summoning the WIBC (composed of ordinary voters) to an emergency meeting, without prior consultation, and the subsequent response by Keith Mitchell that they were disrespected by Cammeron et al, because they did not respond accordingly.

    In the final Report of the CARICOM Cricket Review Panel, the authors referred to: “substantial transformation and modernisation of the business of cricket in other countries such as Australia (Cricket Australia) and England (England and Wales Cricket Board), the governance of West Indies cricket has failed to evolve in a manner which accords with the exigencies of the modern game, but continues to be governed by a structure that is not reflective of the transformation of the game elsewhere.”

    In referring to Australia and England, the report neglected to mention that, whereas cricket in the countries mentioned are controlled under the auspices of ONE board, cricket in the West Indies is controlled by a number of territorial Boards, where insularity always raises its ugly head.

    For example, TTCB publicly announced they were retaining Rayad Emrit as captain of the TT cricket team, because Ramdin would not have been available for the whole competition.
    However, Ramdin “spoke of being barred from practice sessions and being told that he did not act like a leader in India, and that he would be replaced as T&T skipper.” In other words the Trinidadians dropped Ramdin as captain.

    Ironically, when the WICB selectors decided to replace Ramdin with Jason Holder as captain of the West Indies cricket team, the TTCB president Azim Bassarath questioned the rationale behind replacing Ramdin. He said “he was disappointed with the decision and wondered if the WICB had tied Ramdin’s actions to the failed tour of India, adding that he hoped it wasn’t a case where T&T players were being victimised because their board had not supported West Indies Cricket Board president Dave Cameron during his election bid.”

    Renowned cricket journalist, Tony Cozier, said Bassarath’s behaviour was not new to the West Indies cricket but must be stamped out if the region is to improve.

  9. Artaxerxes Avatar
    Artaxerxes

    Perhaps we should read the final Report of the CARICOM Cricket Review Panel to avail ourselves with more information to respond appropriately:

    http://www.nationnews.com/digital_assets/49/CARICOM%E2%80%99s-Prime-Ministerial-Committee-on-Cricket.pdf

  10. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    Artax
    Cricket is outdated, it is boring, and it is going nowhere…
    lotta shiite… days and days of it…

    It has served its purpose ..during the glory days for the West Indies… and it is now time to ‘let the dead bury their dead’ and move on to new and more relevant things…. like road tennis for example…or soccer …or some sane game, that is over in an hour or so….

    shiite man!!!

  11. de Ingrunt Word Avatar
    de Ingrunt Word

    The responses in this post are insightful and perplexing.

    @Jeff. I can agree with your premiss that “That is why FIFA and, to a lesser extent, the ICC, do not stand political intervention in sports administration”. However, the WiCB did SEEK out the governments for major assistance (as all sports bodies do, really) for the Caribbean World Cup. But that nexus ‘renewed and deeply strengthened’ at that time placed the relationship between these two bodies. That placed things in a vastly different light that your precise remarks can properly explain.

    Moreover, although I agree that the governments want to benefit from a successful WI team I would place their political interference in the realm of seeking to get a better return on the investment of all the lovely stadia on their islands. Every leader wants their citizens to be happy to gain fame and win election. Can that be considered to be such a craven unexpected political desire? The WI governments are not trying to run the WICB operations. They just want them to be more accountable.

    Consider the Indian government forbidding their country team from competing against Pakistan in their ‘home stadium’ in the Emirates. Isn’t that the worst kind of political interference?

    @Bushie, you said a long time ago that you dun wid cricket. Your remarks reflect that distaste. IPL and other similar leagueT20 cricket have made more Caribbean sports millionaires in the last 10 years that for the entire lifetime of professional sports in the region. Thus to suggest “it is now time to ‘let the dead bury their dead’ and move on to …things…. like road tennis” is obviously words of an avowed disenchanted fan. It is irrational …but then again obviously that was not your intent.

    Just saying bro, we can agree that WI cricket is in the pit, but yet there is absolutely great professional opportunities still for our talented youth…and you KNOW that! How many soccer players from the region built a house for their parents or bought a BMer or two in the last five years? How many road-tennis players do you think can buy a piece of land and build house from their winnings?

    @David and others, really not sure what the different island boards have to do with a dysfunctional WICB…meaning : why do you and others think that is so DIFFERENT from Australia or India.

    To be brief, I would suggest that you really revisit how the various boards in India operate/used to operate, throw around their influences and the strong political intrigue evidenced. That dwarfs anything here in the Caribbean.

    Can talk more on that some other time.

  12. de Ingrunt Word Avatar
    de Ingrunt Word

    Oops;TRY THIS REREAD to make some sense: But that nexus ‘renewed and deeply strengthened’ at that time placed the relationship between these two bodies in a vastly different light THAN your precise remarks can properly explain.

  13. Artaxerxes Avatar
    Artaxerxes

    de Ingrunt Word December 16, 2015 at 5:37 PM #

    “@David and others, really not sure what the different island boards have to do with a dysfunctional WICB…meaning: why do you and others think that is so DIFFERENT from Australia or India.”

    The Board of Directors of the WICB comprise of representatives from the following six (6) regional cricket associations: Barbados Cricket Association [BCA]; Guyana Cricket Board [GCB]; Jamaica Cricket Association [JCB]; Leeward Islands Cricket Association [LICA]; Trinidad & Tobago Cricket Board [TTCB]; Windward Islands Cricket Board of Control [WICBC].

    Here we have individuals from six DIFFERENT ISLANDS, with six DIFFERENT CULTURES, making arguments to justify the selection of players from their respective islands to play for the senior team. To illustrate this fact, recall Coach Phil Simmons arguing for the selection of two mediocre Trinidad players, Pollard and Dwayne Bravo, in the ODI team. He subsequently cited reasons of “outside interference” for their non-selection.

    Actions such as this, De Word, is symptomatic of INSULARITY, which prevails West Indies cricket. Our different cultures make it somewhat impossible to have a unified team working together to achieve the ultimate goal of rebuilding our regional cricket.

    The Board of Directors of England & Wales Cricket Board [ECB], for example, is comprised of a chairman, deputy chairman and chairman of cricket elected by all 41 members of ECB, two independent directors, three directors from the first-class game, two directors from the recreational game, two ECB executives, a women’s game representative and an MCC representative.

    Perhaps it would be better if you could peruse the ECB website to read information relative to how ECB organizes cricket and the initiatives/policies they have implemented for further development.

    Then you would see why “others think that is so DIFFERENT from Australia or India.”

    http://www.ecb.co.uk/

  14. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    @ Bush Tea , good cricket is NOT boring.

    T20 is the most “entertaining” format ( for me ) and only last a few hours.

  15. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    But DIW, if the aim is to become a millionaire or at least ‘buy a piece of land and build house’ perhaps the players could have opted to get a damn job ..like everyone else…?

    There is MUCH more to sport than bringing some money into the society. Actually marijuana created more jobs and more millionaires in the region in the last ten years…(just saying… 🙂 )

    …There is the goal of inspiring the youth to pursue excellence in the endeavour..
    …there is the idea of building national (regional) pride…
    …there is the critical point of building togetherness and regional team spirit

    There is a social component to sport that transcends a few dollars skippa…

  16. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ Hants
    T20?
    You mean swiping?
    That could be fun for about 15 minutes in truth….
    Seems a good option for players who are more adept at ‘brawn’..
    and less inclined to ‘brain’ too….

  17. Artaxerxes Avatar
    Artaxerxes

    de Ingrunt Word December 16, 2015 at 5:37 PM #

    “@David and others, really not sure what the different island boards have to do with a dysfunctional WICB…meaning: why do you and others think that is so DIFFERENT from Australia or India.”

    Another reason why “others think that is so DIFFERENT from Australia or India,” is when these world wide T20 tournaments are being held, players from Australia, India, England, SA or New Zealand crickets teams are NOT allowed to participate, especially if these tournaments coincide with a test or ODI series. These players adhere to this rule because loyalty to COUNTRY comes first.

    However, the WICB allows players such as Chris Gayle, Dwayne Bravo and Sunil Narine to forego test/ODI series to play in the IPL, Big Bash, Sri Lanka Premier League or the Bangladesh Premier League.

    Dwayne Bravo said openly that his loyalty is to TT first, his IPL second, and the WI third, yet you have a coach, who is also Trinidadian, arguing for his selection in the ODI team. A man who, after playing 164 ODIs, averages 25.36.
    Narine has not shown any loyalty to WI cricket, but the WICB is prepared to back him on his recent suspension from bowling.

    As Tony Cozier mentioned in a July 15, 2015 Cricinfo article, “domestic disorder is costing West Indies cricket.”

    Let me give you an example of how insularity and ethnic bias is hurting West Indies cricket. The WICB has a “cricket flag.” However, on any given day during a test match or ODI, you can see the various national flags of the individual territories being waved. The hypocrisy comes when the team loses fans cite unprofessionalism, bad management or lack of commitment and vent anti island diatribe; If the team captures a rare victory, “everybody does jump up and holler fuh murder.”

  18. Artaxerxes Avatar
    Artaxerxes

    Bush Tea December 16, 2015 at 4:19 PM #

    “Cricket is outdated, it is boring, and it is going nowhere…lotta shiite… days and days of it…”

    I agree with you that TEST cricket is boring. I prefer to watch some T20 swiping drink a few AmBev beers (well no, since de Souf Amuricans tek ovah Banks, I gine drink Hairoun) and have some fun. But then again de West Indies does play Test and ODIs jus’ like T20s….. same cricket, different names.

  19. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    LOL @ Artax
    Touché…..(about the beers 🙂 )

    Re…
    “…why do you and others think that is so DIFFERENT from Australia or India?”

    Simple…
    …There IS a country called Australia
    … there IS a country called India

    What the hell is the ‘West Indies’? …besides the figment of Columbus’ imagination..?

  20. de Ingruunt Word Avatar
    de Ingruunt Word

    @Artaxerxes at 7:07 PM, you are a learned fellow so I appreciate your attention to detail re citing the ECB website but I would humbly suggest that you missed the point – literally and figuratively.

    On the literal side. I specifically cited our Eastern ‘antipodian’ adversaries and you went and cite dem English peoples. So sir respectfully I ask you to go east not west – although, my point still rings true wid de English re the impact of Yorkshire club and other big boys dominating the debate, impacting selection etc – but it is more stark and ‘in your face’ wid de fellas from the East.

    Figuratively, you are being rather intellectually selective in your analysis to suggest that the WI have so many ‘different’ cultures and yet use a broad brush to paint the entire Indian country as ‘culturally’ homogeneous.

    Even to suggest that a northern English-man is ‘culturally’ the same as a fellow ‘born and bred’ in London or in Suffex in the south might be considered sacrilegious by an Exclaimer or others.

    So I cant’ grasp how you are suggesting that a Bajan is so culturally different to a Jamaican despite the fact that on a cricket field Lawrence Rowe and Garry Sobers are culturally the same. BUT yet you offering a strong position that the English fellow who grew up wid family from across the border in Scotland is ‘culturally’ the same as the fellow who grew up across the border from the Welsh.

    Anyhow, leh we move pass that level of palaver and get back to these WICB jokers. The island board are equivalent in every aspect (related to divisiveness and politics) to the territorial boards in India and to a lesser extent In Australia years back

    If you don’t realize that or appreciate how divisive is India (and for example Pakistan cricket I don’t know what to tell you, den.

    The different island personalities regionally is relevant of course but it is NOT itself the principal reason for the inability of the WICB to move forward successfully. That just does not get to the core of the real personality tissues.

    @Bushie, yah mekking sport so wha can I say, nuh.

    Anyhow to all until much later, life beckons.

  21. ac Avatar
    ac

    bush shit you always ranting and raving about ‘everything is done” you done too. you ole geezer

  22. Artaxerxes Avatar
    Artaxerxes

    de Ingruunt Word December 16, 2015 at 8:18 PM #

    “Figuratively, you are being rather intellectually selective in your analysis to suggest that the WI have so many ‘different’ cultures and yet use a broad brush to paint the entire Indian country as ‘culturally’ homogeneous.”

    “So I cant’ grasp how you are suggesting that a Bajan is so culturally different to a Jamaican despite the fact that on a cricket field Lawrence Rowe and Garry Sobers are culturally the same. BUT yet you offering a strong position that the English fellow who grew up wid family from across the border in Scotland is ‘culturally’ the same as the fellow who grew up across the border from the Welsh.”

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    De Word, I must confess that I am unable to grasp the gist of your contribution. Perhaps it was written in a style whereby the language is structured in a format that is difficult for me to comprehend or you have used too many “big words.” I, however, was able to “detect” your usual underlying level of haughtiness.

    As it relates to your above comments, I am dumb founded by your interpretation of my contribution. Can you please direct me to where in my post I suggested “a Bajan is so culturally different to a Jamaican despite the fact that on a cricket field Lawrence Rowe and Garry Sobers are culturally the same?” But this is just De Word being De word.

    I remember focusing on Insularity.

    Do you follow West Indies cricket or are you presenting to us your personal opinion as to what transpires in the game? Have you ever watched cricket in any other Caribbean island to experience what goes on during the game, to witness first hand insularity.

    Have you read any articles written by the regional sports journalist that often highlights insularity and ethnic bias that is prevalent in WI cricket? Have ever heard Viv Richards, while giving commentary during a WI tour to England, being highly critical when describing how members of the team were divided in groups, where all the Indians were together, the Trinis formed their own group, etc. He said that was unheard of in his era.

    Have you ever listened to commentary by regional commentators and how they blatantly display a particular bias for players from their islands?

    Then again, you mentioned Sobers and Lowe…… maybe you are still stuck in that era.

  23. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    How much does cricket “contribute” to the economies of the Caribbean ?

  24. balance Avatar
    balance

    “There is NO GOOD REASON why Governments should not play a role of AUDIT and governance (ensuring fairness, transparency and adherence to established rules) by these trans-national bodies.”
    Noble but needs to be punished with laughter when the same Governments of which you speak are guilty of similar indiscretions and can be found wanting in this regard.

  25. balance Avatar
    balance

    “…. like road tennis for example…or soccer …or some sane game, that is over in an hour or so….”

    Sometimes in your exuberance you are so illogical that you outdo our beloved (AC)

  26. balance Avatar
    balance

    “As Tony Cozier mentioned in a July 15, 2015 Cricinfo article, “domestic disorder is costing West Indies cricket”
    Tony Cozier is a weathercock. He is not analytical in comment. He changes his position depending on the circumstances. Just recites things about events and players which he obviously would be able to garner from his lofty position. Stopped reading him a long time ago.

  27. balance Avatar
    balance

    The writer of the post seems to be trying to convey the impression that the poor management practices of the WICB is responsible for the present crop of poor West indies players. This is myopic. It is akin to saying that the poor management skills of the present Government should contribute to the delivery of poor service from public workers. How come women cricket has climbed to fifth place in the world rankings whereas the men has dropped abysmally with the same WIBC management structure in place. Compliments of Arta I read the report of the Caricom Review panel one of the reports to which the writer alludes and it is nothing new. The recommendations are mere fluff. Disbanding the Board is a view which has been bandied about for a long time; and just as some found it retrograde when the West Indies resorted to foreign coaches to improve the cricket; i find it equally backward when we have a report where the recommendations encourage us to follow the ideas used by Australia, India and Sri Lanka in our way forward.

  28. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ balance
    “..same Governments of which you speak are guilty of similar indiscretions and can be found wanting in this regard.”
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Perhaps you stopped reading Cozier because you have taken over his weathercock style.
    Can you name us any ‘perfect’ judge or body which then is in a position to judge another?
    YOU can’t even lay claim to being always ‘balanced’ …and yet you keep trying to level others…
    Besides, it is ALWAYS better to put a thief to catch a thief. They know the old tricks. Why do you think our police force is so effective…? 🙂

    What is exuberant about suggesting the adoption of genuine grass root sports, which fit into a modern timeframe, and which TRULY garners GLOBAL (in the case of soccer) and National appeal …rather than some colonial shiite that goes on and on and on for days…and then ends in a damn draw…?

    Your centre of gravity is in a total mess today Boss….
    balance gone…

  29. Michael I. King Avatar
    Michael I. King

    T20 = Masturbation
    One Day ( 50 Overs ) = Foreplay
    Test Cricket = The Real Thing
    Make your pick !

  30. balance Avatar
    balance

    Thank you Bushie for your ‘pot calling the kettle black’ response – now continuing where i left off on this feeble attempt by some to place blame on the deficiencies of handsomely paid players on the inefficiencies of the WICB; i agree with Arta that insularity is one of the contributory factors. Every island wants their players selected good or bad and in this regard cricket commentators and writers tend to allow bias in favour of players from their territories to negatively influence their opinion. In addition, the hunger among players for success seems to have been swallowed up by the other avenues available to players to achieve social status and upward mobility. Those still having to rely on the little ability they have tend to believe that huge gold chains around their necks and diamond studs in their ears or the flashiest car are the signs of progress. Then we have a proliferation of irrelevant sports of all sorts ( some of which were mentioned by Bushie) which cannot contribute to national pride at International level. For some reason these monkey sports have been allowed to flourish at the expense of the same game of cricket which have contributed much to National Pride by lack of meaningful support at the local level by the same Governments who now seek to interfere in the running of the game at the regional level. However, there is no doubt too that the intense rivalry at club level to establish dominance by one race or class over the other which fuelled fierce competition and by extension excellence has killed that motivation and hunger for success which was stoked by the socio-economic factor. Last but not least, the photo of beach cricket above says it all. Beach cricket among other forms of play was a powerful medium of not only how to enjoy cricket but to be versed in the technical aspects of the game without formal coaching. Now this has been replaced by beach volleyball or racquet ball both of which can never lift Barbados to International sporting prominence in the eyes of the world.

  31. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    I thought that cricket was a grass roots sport. When did that stop?
    Perhaps that is part of the problem
    Cricket is currently being embraced all over the world by non “colonial” countries and countries that are non English speaking and who never previously played the game
    In a number of recent test matches there were actually some very exciting draws.
    Also millions worldwide tuned in on tv to view the stonewalling by SA v INDIA.

  32. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    BALANCE
    MUCH OF WHAT YOU HAVE SAID IS SOUND AND VERY ACCURATE, AND CAN NOT BE REFUTED

  33. Artaxerxes Avatar
    Artaxerxes

    balance December 17, 2015 at 11:13 AM #

    An excellent contribution, Balance.

  34. de Ingruunt Word Avatar
    de Ingruunt Word

    @Artaxerxes at 9:52 PM, good sir, like the game of cricket I would also suggest that its better playing the ‘ball’ and not ‘the man’. Your comments about my “usual underlying level of haughtiness” and the “…you have used too many “big words.” are very amusing.

    I am suitably amused that you find ‘intellectually’ [longest word in my piece, I think] and ‘homogenous’ or ‘‘antipodian’ adversaries ” as BIG words. Come on, Artax.

    Anyhow, let us play your bowling as we whistle a la Rowe (of course) !!!

    Ball: You asked – “Can you please direct me to where in my post I suggested “a Bajan is so culturally different to a Jamaican….”

    You posted: “Here we have individuals from six DIFFERENT ISLANDS, with six DIFFERENT CULTURES, …” I gave the Bdos v Ja example per your ‘different island, different cultures’.

    As I said previously, if you or Bushie or others cannot accept the realities of what transpires in India or Australia or Pakistan then I accept then what can I say.

    Ball: You said – “Viv Richards … being highly critical when describing how members of the team were divided in groups, where all the Indians were together..”

    A recent CricInfo feature: “As Rajan Bala writes in The Covers Are Off, Gaekwad led the Test team to England in 1959, only to find the Bombay players annoyed to the point of MUTINY (my emphasis) at being led by a captain and manager from Baroda – even a minor royal. Predictably, India lost every Test. ”

    That was a old reference in a new story but what well ventilated over the years. India cricket continued to experience such issues like that over the years.Particularly at the administrative level when they moved in last 10 -15 years to (successfully) usurp the ICC power base.

    I am not disputing Viv’s point at THAT time or that insularity exists. But whereas I may be stuck in the past I do have an appreciation for it and understand the ebbs and flows of life and cricket.

    Of course WI is dysfunctional now. At one point on the field we were absolutely cohesive too. A leader was able to get the guys to subordinate their differences. That is exactly what Imran Khan did for Pakistan and Mishbah most recently during their periods of successes. Their Boards were also racked by ‘insularity’ & gov’t interference.

    You dismiss me as being in the past to the detriment of not paying attention to its importance.

    And by the way, you asked

    — “Have you ever watched cricket in any other Caribbean …” YES ‘ (and soccer too). I SAW FELLOWS COMPETING STRONGLY FOR THEIR COUNTRY.

    — “Have you read … insularity and ethnic bias that is prevalent in WI cricket?” YES, TOO MANY. AND AS POINTED OUT ALSO READ THOSE ABOUT OTHER NATIONS.

  35. de Ingruunt Word Avatar
    de Ingruunt Word

    @Bush Tea at 7:22 AM, of course cricket makes us all get ornery and whatever…and then become disagreeing-agreeing bed-fellows.

    I completely disagreed with your first post and thus @Balance’s similar remarks on your road-tennis and soccer comments are in harmony to that.

    And just as surely I must agree with your critique of his ‘Cozier comments’. And thus concur that his ‘…balance gone.” We can say a lot about Tony Cozier but I have always found his journalism to be very professional. He has hit hard when needed. And on this issue of WI governance he has been very caustic in recent years. I always thought his was a strong, practical voice even when his friends like Peter Short, Stollmeyer and Rae were in charge.

    I have read him over the years and many others and I cannot understand the remark: “Tony Cozier is a weathercock. He is not analytical in comment. He changes his position depending on the circumstances.”

    On BALANCE and @Balance, compared to all other journalists in the region and world of cricket that is grossly inaccurate. Please give a few examples rather than just speak off the cuff.

    What needs to be said about this latest report is that it is the THIRD — no actually FOURTH –of such reports seeking major change at WICB.

    None of the others were acted upon with any vigor and continuity so it unlikely that much will happen here either considering the recommendation specifying disbanding.

    Re operational excellence: the other countries adopted the WI best practices which we used to gain our supremacy and have now completely surpassed us.

    They have also built on what they learned from us; whereas we were unable to reinforce and build on our own foundations.

    Now we are questioning whether to adopt their enhanced Best Practices. Steeupses.

  36. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    re Re operational excellence: the other countries adopted the WI best practices which we used to gain our supremacy and have now completely surpassed us.
    STEPHEN WAUGH SAID THAT THIS IS WHAT HE DID WHEN HE TOOK OVER THE OZZIE TEAM

  37. Artaxerxes Avatar
    Artaxerxes

    @ De Word

    You quoted my comments, not in their entirety, to respond to promote your own agenda. That, in my opinion, is being “DISHONESTLY SELECTIVE.”

    You wrote:

    “So I cant’ grasp how you are suggesting that a Bajan is so culturally different to a Jamaican despite the fact that on a cricket field Lawrence Rowe and Garry Sobers are culturally the same.”

    Which I interpreted to mean you were suggesting that on one hand I am implying that “a Bajan is so culturally different to a Jamaican,” and conversely, I am implying “that on a cricket field Lawrence Rowe and Garry Sobers are culturally the same.”

    And I responded by asking:

    “Can you please direct me to where in my post I suggested “a Bajan is so culturally different to a Jamaican despite the fact that on a cricket field Lawrence Rowe and Garry Sobers are culturally the same?”

    But this is just De Word being De Word. I yield to your infinite wisdom.

  38. de Ingruunt Word Avatar
    de Ingruunt Word

    Incidentally, @Artax. Further ball playing clarification. LOLLLL.

    “INSULARITY: ignorance of or lack of interest in cultures, ideas, or peoples outside one’s own experience.”

    In India, its called parochialism or sectionalism or whatever. It’s that 1959 example.

    In Australia its the the small region v Big Regionalism

    More pronounced and destabilizing here no doubt. But it was overcome in the past and can be overcome again if – and ONLY IF – there is a strong, talented leader at the helm and he has at least a practical sensible group at corporate HQ in support.

  39. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    The return of Gayle Force.

    3rd Match: Heat v Melb Reneg at Brisbane on Dec 19, 2015
    (18:10 local | 08:10 GMT)

  40. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    RE the WiCB did SEEK out the governments for major assistance (as all sports bodies do, really) for the Caribbean World Cup.

    IT IS NOTEWORTHY THAT NEITHER THE NZ OR SA FOLK SPENT TONS OF MONEY TO ALTER THEIR CRICKET GROUNDS FOR THEIR WORLD CUP GAMES. WONDER WHY

  41. de Ingrunt Word Avatar
    de Ingrunt Word

    @Artax, can we deal PLEASE with the subject matter and stop seeing cracks on the pitch and appealing for ghostly snicks…there are no goblins behind every parsed phrase and word!

    I shorten quoted words for space realities. I am dealing with the ENTIRE context of what was said, and the entire quote can be read in the original

    Your thesis was about ‘cultural’ differences being very instrumental is causing WI dysfunction. I attempted to show that there are also significant ‘cultural’ difference in India, Pakistan and Australia. Even in England.

    In this regard you used ‘insularity’ and ‘cultural’ difference somewhat interchangeably. That actually prompted me to give the definition.

    I agree that insularity places a part. I do not agree that it plays the most significant pat. Why would I need to misquote you selectively in that regard.

    I cited Sir Garry and LGR as they were too very excellent exponents of the cricket arts. I noted that was on field cultural harmony…of course they did not play together on a WI team so the point was to double-down on how the WI cricket culture is ingrained in our DNA. Why are you being tied-up on what is NOT there.

    Play cricket…bat and ball. Hit ball or get bowled.

    Stop saying my wrist is bent 50°!!! Although, one days in the nets my off-breaks were strongly questioned. LOLLL. Oh lawd.

  42. de Ingrunt Word Avatar
    de Ingrunt Word

    @ Dr Georgie Porgie at 2:15 PM…did we have stadia to a standard to meet the grandiose dreams to host that event? They did, with improvements, not so.

    You certainly understand the economic and nitty-gritty thinking to sink money into the grounds for that event but moreso for the future.

    That is always a problematic decision as economists and experts show that a society invariably does NOT recoup cost from these modern day multi-million $$ facilities.

    But in many regards these appear to have been necessary evils.

    More reason why it way past strange that the WICB can ‘turn up ‘ their noses at the Caricom heads, after accepting all the largesse…or maybe it should be how the Caricom leaders were so stupid to believe they would have a hold over the WICB!

    I gone people.

  43. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    I STICK BY WHAT I SAID VIZ
    IT IS NOTEWORTHY THAT NEITHER THE NZ OR SA FOLK SPENT TONS OF MONEY TO ALTER THEIR CRICKET GROUNDS FOR THEIR WORLD CUP GAMES. WONDER WHY

    THE NZ OR SA FOLK DONT HAVE FANCY STADIA THY HAVE SIMPLE CRICKET GROUNDS

    THE TRINIDADIANS SENSIBLY DID NOT TEAR DOWN THE QUEN’S PARK OVAL AND BUILD IT BACK FOR JUST A FEW WORLD CUP GAMES

    RE That is always a problematic decision as economists and experts show that a society invariably does NOT recoup cost from these modern day multi-million $$ facilities.
    IF YOU KNOW THAT DOING SHITE IS STUPID WHY DO IT?

    RE But in many regards these appear to have been necessary evils.
    HOW CAN DOING SHITE BE A NECESSARY EVIL?

    RE More reason why it way past strange that the WICB can ‘turn up ‘ their noses at the Caricom heads, after accepting all the largesse

    THIS IS THE NORMAL BEHAVIOR OF THOSE OF THAT ILK

    YOU NEED TO LEARN AS IS THE CASE IN CRICKET……YOU DO NOT NEED TO PLAY AT EVERY BALL

  44. David Avatar
    David

    The problem affecting cricket in the Caribbean is a management problem interacting with the insularity issue that is co mingling with lack of resources on the domestic front to nuture a modern day professional cricketer. Just take the Leewards as an example and their drafting policy for the local regional competition. The problem is exposed for all to see. Being sentimental will not cut it. Rawle Brancker has been calling for a disbandment of the WI CB for years and replace with a publicly traded company for years now.

  45. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    THIS IS VERY INTERESTING AND INSTRUCTIVE
    http://antiguaobserver.com/lica-to-target-delinquent-territories/

  46. Sargeant Avatar
    Sargeant

    @GP
    I thought that cricket was a grass roots sport. When did that stop?
    Perhaps that is part of the problem
    +++++++++++
    First a bit of perspective, while many people here are lamenting the decline of WI cricket let me remind one and all that the last time the English won the World Cup (football) was 1966 and they claimed to have invented the game. There are probably not many here that remember the heroics of Geoff Hurst or the dogged defense of Nobby Stiles or the Charlton brothers but I digress…….

    We are also overlooking the elephant in the room i.e. the talent level is not what it was and it is impossible to turn West Indies water into a World Class Bordeaux.

    About Grass Roots: within three miles as the blackbird flies of where I grew up there were five BCL teams. Since you are a CH CH man you probably know of these teams and where they played but I’ll provide a little history for the benefit of others

    1) Dover
    2) Maxwell
    3) Cane Vale
    4) Kingsland/Montrose
    5) St. Dosa (St.Davids Old Scholars Association)
    Today I know that the pitch is still here but I don’t know if there is a Dover team and the other four are defunct.

    The Maxwell team used to play in part of the old Warners Plantation compound ( this is now part of the site of Tino Terrace) and the plantation owner George Ward used to watch cricket from his living room window on Saturdays.

    Cane Vale cricket team used to play on “Cane Vale Pasture” which was located at the eastern end of where the original houses were located and opposite where the Power family (of agricultural fame) used to live. You could walk from that “pasture” to the other end of the Gall Hill Housing area, that “pasture” is now the site of several homes.
    Montrose Cricket Club used to play their matches on the north side of the street somewhere west of the Montrose fowl farm and east of the Deighton Griffith School, that site is now part of the Kingsland development .

    St. DOSA Cricket Club used to play on the grounds of the Community Centre in Sargeant’s Village next to Regency Park, you can access that ground by taking the first left after you leave JB’s Supermarket going East to Sheraton Centre, the field is still there but is used by the locals for football, the Cricket Club is long gone.

    These teams comprised of locals whose occupations ran the gamut of what existed in Barbados at that time you could have civil servants, carpenters, masons or any number of “blue collar” professionals. These constituted the “grass roots” of which you speak. In addition there were other BCL teams in close proximity e.g. Inch Marlow, Providence etc. If you were interested in playing and had any talent there was a team for you but times have changed and village cricket is not the calling card it once was for the young.

  47. David Avatar
    David

    @Sargeant

    We are also overlooking the elephant in the room i.e. the talent level is not what it was and it is impossible to turn West Indies water into a World Class Bordeaux.

    Good points, in the days of yore the BCL and village cricket ‘proliferated’, all the more reason why the WICB must manage the cricket with this reality in mind.

  48. balance Avatar
    balance

    Good points, in the days of yore the BCL and village cricket ‘proliferated’, all the more reason why the WICB must manage the cricket with this reality in mind.”

    “If you were interested in playing and had any talent there was a team for you but times have changed and village cricket is not the calling card it once was for the young.”

    Very good points indeed- but management of individual boards is autonomous. Resuscitation of these indigenous experiences which served local cricket and by extension West Indies cricket well must start at the local level. That is where Governments can use their influence by way of tangible or intangible support for innovative change in the management structure of the game at the local/club level for there is no difference in the management of the game at the local level from that at regional level. The process seems to be a promotion with higher attendant benefits from one level to the next bereft of innovative ideas.

    Perhaps the horse is too far out of the stable but Government’s efforts to restore cricket as a game of national pride can begin by making cricket a MANDATORY part of the school curriculum. Periods for cricket and cricket alone should be established. The importance of cricket to national psyche must be a part of an intense but sober indoctrination programme not like in Cuba and China and Russia though. Improved cricket performance could form part of the appraisal system.

    Irrelevant sports like Volleyball and badmington and now road tennis should be relegated to the background where they belong in the overall scheme of what is relevant to national pride and interests as all other sports were to cricket in times past because we just do not have the capacity to maintain so many sports at a high level .So why repudiate that which we know and of which was benefit to us.

    Funds from the Sports Ministry should be channelled towards the promotion of beach cricket; kneeling down cricket and those forms of play which made the game a wholesome pastime and enjoyable and served as a nursery for the Sir Garries and Sir Evertons and the Seymour nurses to hone their self-made cricketing skills.

    Cricket at club level is at best a joke. That should be disbanded in favour of inter-parish competitions with Government support and attractive prizes for performance. Heavily populated parishes can have more than one team along the lines of the constituency electoral process level. Inter-parish rivalry would replace the rivalry which once existed at the socio-economic level with the country teams not wanting to be outdone by the town teams and vice-versa but out of which excellence could possibly follow and individual support at a mass level could be renewed. Support is the key to the success of any team.

    This reference to the Caricom report which invites us to utilise systems put in place by large jurisdictions like Australia; India and Sri Lanka is at best a backward step. No wonder the WICB ignored the recommendations. In the sixties and early seventies our players were coaching in Australia and India and were icons in league and county cricket in England. Yes times have changed but we have to change our structure to suit the times not allow the time to dictate how we change to be compete with the changing times.

    Talk about changing the board alone is not the answer because the board is made up of the recycled members who manage at club level. Changes has to be made at how things are done in all aspects at local/club level first.Time we get back to the basics first.

    Over to you bushie.

  49. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    LOL @ balance
    Over to you bushie
    ++++++++++++++++
    Not Bushie bozie…
    Don’t care enough….
    You know that the bushman just like to push the whacker wherever there is a lotta shiite going on….
    As Sargeant says, the FACT is that there is no interest in the bat and ball business. The lotta fat children bout the place just ain’t able….. besides….cricket does play on the iPad? 🙂

    At least with a one-hour game like road tennis, badminton or volleyball they may try a game while the iPad is recharging…..

    Give it up balance.
    CRICKET is dead….
    But you, Hants and GP can continue with wunna artificial resuscitation….

  50. balance Avatar
    balance

    “Artaxerxes December 17, 2015 at 12:06 PM # balance December 17, 2015 at 11:13 AM #

    An excellent contribution, Balance.”

    I am flattered coming from a scholar like you but thanks.

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