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Peter Wickham - CADRES
Peter Wickham – CADRES

Does it sound familiar? Just rewind to 2013 and the Barbados general election. A particular pollster/political guru had the DLP to get whitewashed; or as we would say in local lingo – ‘catspraddled’. Well, we all know the outcome; the DLP was returned to office, and that pollster/pundit, who had egg all over his face, now spends every waking hour excoriating the government on air and in print. Big Joker!

Heard him a week or so ago pontificating that the Scottish people deserve better and a ‘Yes’ vote would shake-up Whitehall. However, when a caller tried to put him on the spot and asked him to predict the outcome, he was somewhat non-committal and hedging; probably remembering how he and the Belle Tower made a fool of themselves in 2013. I am waiting to hear that pollster on last night’s result. I am sure he will do a volte-face; that is his accustomed mo.

Scotland’s Referendum is an object lesson for the self-righteous. People Power always wins out. For the record, I was hoping and wishing for a ‘No’ result. It makes sense. Alex Salmond wanted to have his cake and eat it too – aka- the best of both worlds.

Scotland’s ‘No’ Vote: A Loss for Pollsters and a Win for Betting Markets

by Justin Wolfer

Thursday’s Scottish referendum was interesting not just for what it said about Britain, but also for what it said about the state of political forecasting. I’m calling it a loss not only for the pro-independence movement — the “No” campaign won 55.3 percent of the vote — but also for the pollsters.

To be fair, I should start by acknowledging that most of the election-eve polls correctly predicted a majority No vote, but they all underestimated the margin, and many missed by quite a lot. The polls were volatile; they often gave conflicting signals; and it took them until the last few weeks to even start to suspect that this would be a close race. The major polls in the past week ranged from a 6-point lead for the Yes vote to a 7-point lead for the No vote.
And this wide range wasn’t because of wild fluctuations in public opinion. It was the result of two surveys that were taken within a day of each other.

The prediction markets, on the other hand, yielded much more reliable forecasts. Despite the demise of Intrade, these markets remain extremely active, and over at Betfair, bettors rated the chances of a No vote at around 80 percent, an estimate that remained remarkably stable over the past week, fluctuating by only a few points.

British bookies were laying similar odds. According to The Financial Times, a Ladbrokes spokesman argued earlier this week that the referendum would be the biggest political betting event in history, noting that his firm had taken more money in bets than the last British general election and American presidential election combined. Betting on the likely winning margin also suggested that the No vote was most likely to win by around 4 points. Yes, bettors underestimated the winning margin, but they were still closer than the election-week polling average.

My own research with Microsoft’s David Rothschild suggests that pollsters could do a better job if they learned from prediction markets. Instead of focusing on whom people say they plan to vote for, ask them instead to focus on who they think will win. Typically, asking people who they think will win yields better forecasts, possibly because it leads them to also reflect on the opinions of those around them, and perhaps also because it may yield more honest answers.
It’s an idea with particular relevance to the case of the Scottish referendum. As Stephen Fisher, an associate professor of political sociology at the University of Oxford, has noted, there is a historical tendency for polling to overstate the likelihood of success of referendums, possibly because we’re more willing to tell pollsters we will vote for change than to actually do so. Such biases are less likely to distort polls that ask people who they think will win. Indeed, in giving their expectations, some respondents may even reflect on whether or not they believe recent polling.

And in this election, too, voters’ expectations yielded a much clearer signal. A recent IPSOS/More poll showed that voters’ intentions were so evenly balanced as to be within the margin of error, even as the share of the population who expected the No vote to win held a robust 11-point lead over those expecting a successful Yes vote. Lesson: The electorate knew who would win, even as most pollsters failed to ask them.

There’s also a lesson here that’s relevant to the debate about the importance of whether to adjust polling results for “fundamentals,” as Leo, the Upshot’s election forecasting model, does. If you take polling results literally, you can be forced to predict a win even when the polling points in an unlikely direction (as when it suggested Herman Cain would win the Republican nomination). But prediction markets, like sophisticated statistical models, can also take into account other information that would temper such a prediction. In the Scottish case, the “fundamental” worth noting is that it’s hard to get a referendum to pass.

But my real beef with the polls concerns how badly they’ve failed at making useful long-run forecasts. Predicting what will happen tomorrow is never that hard, while predicting what will happen in several months or years is not only difficult but also much more useful.

Thanks to Oliver Lee, an amateur psephologist who has tracked the betting odds day by day, and the good folks at UK Polling Report, who have tracked the major polls, we can compare the very different narratives they’ve given over the longer run. Don’t be fooled by the fact that very similar numbers have a very different meaning: When a pollster says you’re going to win only 30 percent of the vote, you’re set to lose in a landslide, whereas when a market says you have a 30 percent chance to win, it’s saying you’ve got a real chance. And that’s basically what happened.
Throughout most of the campaign, few gave the pro-independence supporters a chance. From the early surveys in 2012 and 2013, all the way through to those run as recently as June of this year, most polls registered support for the Yes campaign as running in the mid-to-low 30s. A few nudged above 40 percent, but far more registered support in the 20s. It’s no surprise, then, that the news media largely ignored the referendum, and that pundits basically wrote it off as a sideshow.

It took a shocking YouGov survey earlier this month, which pointed to a winning Yes vote, to finally awaken pundits from their slumber. But in fact, throughout the entire campaign, prediction markets judged the race as being very much alive, and on average throughout 2012-13, the average betting odds suggested around a one-in-four chance that the pro-independence groups would succeed. True, the independence campaign ultimately failed, but this seemed a better assessment of the actual risks than polls suggesting an electoral blowout.
Ultimately, the Scots didn’t end up voting for change on Thursday. But perhaps this election will change political punditry instead. I’m betting that next time Scottish independence comes up for a vote, political forecasters will rely more on prediction markets or on surveys asking voters what they expect will happen.

Justin Wolfers is a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics and professor of economics and public policy at the University of Michigan.


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93 responses to “Scotland and CADRES”

  1. PLANTATION DEEDS FROM 1926TO 2014 MASSIVE FRAUD LANDTAX BILLS AND NO DEEDS, BARBADOS DLP/BLP MASSIVE PONZI FRAUD Avatar
    PLANTATION DEEDS FROM 1926TO 2014 MASSIVE FRAUD LANDTAX BILLS AND NO DEEDS, BARBADOS DLP/BLP MASSIVE PONZI FRAUD

    Peter Wickham – CADRES sold his soul to the highest paying Devil,


  2. There was nothing wrong with Peter Wickham’s poll and you lying Douglas knows this. You very well know that the Dems could NOT loose the election, they had too much at stake and too much to loose the election.

    They had to prove the poll wrong and had to win at all cost. You lying Douglas knows exactly what you deceitful dems did. As one dem told me, “wunnah think wunnah gine win, we got a plan for wunnah”.

    And they sure did……….massive election fraud, unprecedented in this country…………….millions spent buying votes from the vulnerable in this country. So you could really stop trying to pull down Cadres.

    I am sure I heard Peter told the caller that he thinks the NO’s would win, although the polls said it was too close to call and that it would be better for Scotland to remain in the union!

  3. Tell me it ain't so Avatar
    Tell me it ain’t so

    Prodigal Son AKA Blarney Lynch, The second Poll which he attempted to save your ass with, and which he failed to deliver on its intention and in its mission, he could not save your sad thiefing ass from the Biggest margin of defeat ever suffered in St Michael South, go back to Colridge Street from whence you came and continue to ply your trade.


  4. wuh david had a poll up in here too and just like the wickham poll had the govt members bags all packed and heading for the doors,, ac is of the belief . that most countries prefer peaceful goverance, and grows tired and weary for the call for change without viable alternatives and refuse wholeheartedly to trade peace for alternatives that are counterproductive and in the long run cannot be sustained or contained


  5. A referendum is not a general election.


  6. Prodigal Son | September 19, 2014 at 8:38 PM |

    There was nothing wrong with Peter Wickham’s poll and you lying Douglas knows this.
    ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
    but there is something definitely wrong with your head, stay off the bottle.

    btw the poll was wrong…….WRONG……..WRONG……OH the agony of defeat..


  7. We had estimated a few weeks ago, in an article here, that ‘Yes’ would win also. That was an estimate, that’s all. At least people like us take a bold a stand and even statisticians turn political ‘guesstitators’ can get it wrong more than a few times. Not bad, when one considers the probabilities. In spite of the last election, Wickham has an excellent record in predicting outcomes, still.

    Further, there have been early reports of electoral corruption. We well know that many here see the Queen’s England as above these kinds of things. While we are tended to generally agree we also found the desperation by Cameron et al to sway Scots disturbing. When combined with credible reports of fraud, the final story may yet to written. There is a mountain of evidence, not proof, that the USA has never had a fair election. Go figure!

  8. overseasbajanyankee Avatar
    overseasbajanyankee

    @PRO ICAL

    you can really hush, u sound like a stick record.


  9. Alex Salmond , Scotland’s First Minister resigns after the referendum vote went against him. Now this is what could be called the Westminster Model of Government in action. A far cry from the likes of Byer Suckoo, Patrick Todd and Irene Sandiford-Garner who were all rejected at the polls in the last General Election, but never the less now enjoy a cushy seat, Lording it, in the Upper House of Parliament.
    And that goes for the previous others,during the last 48 years, who were similarly taking on board after rejection by the electorate.


  10. Pacha the wanker

    Here you are, as usual sharp as a marble…gloating on your abysmal failure to get one or other right – as you say “not bad” an “estimate”. More colossal, thick as pig shit stupidity.

    Already your sick little mind witters about “credible” corruption

    Poor Pacha…you got it wrong. Your PREDICTION was unsound. In fact what you did was to impress your nasty little mind-mode on the result you wanted. Was that ‘pure’ or ‘applied’ research? “Go figure” – as you and David are fond of saying.

    “The final story may yet to written” – well, yes. The final story is never written. Meanwhile don’t be unduly “disturbed”. Your markers on life are assured.


  11. @Ross. Invective aside, got to agree with you 100%.

    @Pachamama, as Ross says, you are being a donkey. Take as aspirin and call us in the morning. If you are really wanting to make a difference, try telling the truth, instead of distorting it like all the others we have elected to govern us.

    Like my friend Alair Shepherd, I know a few Scottish people, although not nearly as well as he does. The polls I saw all indicated that it was too close to call and I spoke to my Scottish friends afterwards and they said that they did not actually decide until they were in the polling booth with the ballot paper in their hands.

    Having closely followed the whole referendum process courtesy of the BBC, I have to say that this is how the independence of any country should be decided upon. By the will of the people and NOT by the will of politicians. And if the will of the people runs contrary to the will of the politicians and Pachamama, then the politicians and Pachamama just have to get the hell over it and resign. It was a fair and transparent process, marred only by physical aggression and threats by voters on both sides. I recommend the statement issued by Her Majesty afterwards as being universal, rather than merely fit for purpose.


  12. Attributed blame to every sources possible without engaging in some internal reflection in an effort to ascertain the true nature of the party’s failure to aroused the passion of the Barbadian electorate.

    Who could have forgotten the anti-intellectual, intelllectual Bush Tea, with his Ten Point Plan to addressed the antiquated West Minister System? Man it was made for laughts brother, a man with no kind of academic credentials that we know of thus far, trying to addressed the shortcomings the political system in Barbados.

    And then we have the audacity as well as the unmitigated gall to accused without just caused in my estimation, a “PARTY” that has and continues to do its best to addressed the ECONOMIC- REALITIES in Barbados, of what critics have called one of the worse economic crisis of recent times, as being incompetent.


  13. Where is the first part of my statement? I am afraid it has disappeared for no apparent reason.


  14. […] David Submitted by Douglas Does it sound familiar? Just rewind to 2013 and the Barbados general election. […]

  15. Easy Squeez (Make No Riot) Avatar
    Easy Squeez (Make No Riot)

    There is some evidence of Vote Tampering on Youtube


  16. Being Scottish it rankles me even to say it, but did some of you miss that Quebecers went to Scotland early in this process, to give their wisdom in bringing a country to the brink of separation so that it can extort a ransom. Salmond you will find will fall into some great job, he played his part ….in chaos there is money to be made. If you get rid of your sheep you cant shear them again there was no way Scotland was leaving.. Pollsters don’t understand the Canny Scot. if you think they are going to tell them what they really think or will do … is laughable.


  17. Pachaman is not a political scientist unlike PeterWickham who have acquired vast knoweldge and understanding of the political scientific field in which he was worked for many years,, furthermore if pachaman is wrong, more likely than not he like many others outside that profession would have gathered or gain what information from the many the :suposedly” professional pollster , pachama u can take solace in the fact that many of the professional pollsters were wrong and there is no need to apologize or recant your point of view ,, point being a vast number of people was misled by a bunch of political pundits and braying jac..ass.. so what is your point ross,,o,h to kick a,sss.


  18. A poll is an art and not a science. Based on reports the poll in Scotland galvanised the nationalist vote in the last days leading into the vote. A poll is only a snapshot view at a point in time based on qualitative data. A worrying trend for the UK is the the youth vote voted Yes but was countered by the old vote. To Cameron and the UK’s credit they have promise sweeping reform in recognition that they need to be a more responsive central government.

    We have to stop our analysis based on a Lilipution perspective.


  19. There was nothing wrong with Wickhams poll for 2013. A lot a blasted vote buying went on so that the stinking bastered could have a second term to secure their pension. Now they filling their pockets by what ever means and not running the country like true states men. If we stop greasing their palms with our hard earn money and make them work for the tax payers money then things will get better. Corruption from the very top- down.


  20. My bet would be that many Scots at the last moment looked at the prospects of recent independent countries like Barbados and came to a realization that independent statehood isn’t all that it is cracked out to be. There would be a huge amount of turmoil to gain what. Have a look at what the property values are today in Quebec compared to Vancouver and Toronto and you will see the lasting effect of wanting to be independent.


  21. And Wickham’s public view on Scotland’s separation was that he preferred the union to remain.


  22. @ Douglas. .From what I remember Peter Wickham was firmly in support of the NO vote.As to your deduction that his second poll in the last election brought about his undoing, you are spot on. Now can you admit that it has also done the same for Barbados? Circus clowns marking time is what we now have. @@Prodigal son. ..Douglas is cussing Peter Wickham just like Owen Arthur and his brigade( you included) did when it became clear that the public purse was about to be taken away. Are you not tired writing that same self serving shit about vote buying? Where were you during the St Michael north west by election?

  23. millertheanunnaki Avatar

    @ David | September 20, 2014 at 7:26 AM |
    “And Wickham’s public view on Scotland’s separation was that he preferred the union to remain”
    That is the position Peter took from the time the topic was first raised publicly.
    It only goes to show that Douglas sole intent is to discredit and malign the man. Can we expect Douglas to apologize to Peter?
    We doubt it since that is the MO and evil nature of the organization he represents.


  24. @ David
    Polling is both an art and a science. But human perceptions are always changing. This is a factor, there are many others, which make predictions always fraught with error. In studies where humans are not the subjects variation still exist.


  25. @Pacha

    How can it be a science if the data source is qualitative?


  26. ac

    My point – well one point dear ac – is to express incredulity that this fella should actually praise himself for getting it wrong when the choice was ‘either this or that’. That he may have plagiarized the views of others makes no difference. What does make a difference, however, is that the man who claims to be a ‘researcher” tortured the research process by impressing his warped little hate-filled mind on the result he wanted and then claiming that his failure was a success story.

    That is not research. It is a form of tyranny and most certainly dishonest and manipulative – rather like his horrendous argument that because there is what he calls a “mountain of evidence but not proof” that every US election is rigged it follows that. the referendum was rigged. Of course, he does not actually say that….but he attempts to manipulate us into reaching that conclusion with his little “go figure” cliché.

    But then what can you expect from a man whose reasoning process is “Because you support gay rights you must be gay.” Lawd.

    As someone pointed out above, his “credible evidence” is a couple of YOU TUBE videos planted by unknown people from unstated locations of unstated locations which could have been manufactured by anyone with the nonce to do it. Moreover, if the fella is “disturbed” that Cameron went to Scotland I am equally horrified that the vote was given to 16yo’s, most of whom, as I saw recently, were far too busy on their smart phones to worry who walks the pavements let alone have a serious thought about Independence.

    Having said that, I thought it would go ‘Yes’ from what (as Amused) I had seen on the BBC. Seemingly the Scottish people had more sense than the rest of us, PW – well done him – excepted..


  27. Why must the vote be labelled right of wrong anyway.


  28. Which brings to mind the systematic approach of political “baiting” which ran Wickham poll aground.however in the Sottish referrendum he was able to withdraw himself from the “well”of political posteuring and “cattlecall”and use clarity and good foresight to make a good judgement call.A rule of thumb which he should follow when managing future Polls


  29. David the UK will now go through the same re allocation of transfer paments etc. that Canada goes through to keep Quebec in Canada.

    The UK is equivalent to 4 Canadian provinces.

    David hope you multi tasking. Qualifying in session.


  30. @Hants

    And CLT20, Trident next at 10:30am.


  31. A poll is a art..bladerdash comedy


  32. @Douglas “Heard him a week or so ago pontificating that the Scottish people deserve better and a ‘Yes’ vote would shake-up Whitehall. However, when a caller tried to put him on the spot and asked him to predict the outcome, he was somewhat non-committal and hedging…. I am waiting to hear that pollster on last night’s result. I am sure he will do a volte-face; that is his accustomed mo.”

    Dear Douglas: Since Peter did not predict the result of the Scottish vote how can he do a volte-face?

    Please explain in real real simple language that this Simple Simon can understand.


  33. Wickham admitted yesterday polling is an art.


  34. @DAVID
    A worrying trend for the UK is the the youth vote voted Yes but was countered by the old vote.


    There is no merit to that contention, there have been two referendums (referenda?) in Quebec in the last 30 years and each time the youth vote was in favour of separation while the “old” vote favoured the status quo. If one was held today the results would be the same with the youth vote favouring a change and the “old” vote in the No camp, but the youth grows “old’ and become more concerned about other issues and attitudes change so opinions held today are not necessarily the opinions held later.


  35. David the race tomorrow should be very exciting. Hope they all make it through turn one.


  36. This country in the sheep pen,worse, behind the sheep pen where you put all the sheep-shite to fertilize the garden beds and the author chooses to launch a cowardly cheap shot of a piss poor article.


  37. @Sargeant

    Yes if we make a determination based on if right or wrong the vote BUT then there is the tension of life that comes from making the best decisions from now and in years to come.


  38. @Tell me it ain’t so September 19, 2014 at 9:13 PM “Prodigal Son AKA Blarney Lynch go back to Colridge Street from whence you came and continue to ply your trade.”

    Butt, butt Mr. Lynch is not a lawyer. It is lawyer’s who ply their trade/profession on Coleridge Street innit?

    LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  39. @ Bullen Robert Ross
    We will make whatever points we want to and you are in no position to stop or influence our thinking – yah stinking buller yuh. Now we double down on previous claims and assert our rightness fearlessly. We have not argued in the past that the failure of the ‘Yes” was a success. But it may be. Only if this buller Robert Ross could manage to restrict the effluent entering the blood-brain barrier he would be able to embrace a worldview not limited by the size of his environment and his propensity to normalize bulling by any means necessary.

    The failure of the ‘Yes’ will not stop those in the Basque region. Or those in Catalonia. Or the Italian separatists. Or the French separatists. Or even the very Scots who are destined for independence. That movement can’t be forever denied! This matter will return within 20 years for the Scots. But the trajectory of the yearnings for independence from the UK and maybe the EU, by many groups in Europe, will continue at a more rapid pace than before. Normally, Bullen Robert Ross would support independence, for his own reasons of course. But his mission in life now seems to have devolved into an oppositionist to everything we say. In spite of obvious irrationalities.

    This Bullen Robert Ross’s central disagreement with us is on the issue of this perceived right he feels he has to bull or to promote this illegal activity. It is a criminality act for which he should be imprisoned without a need to bother the courts. ‘It’ must know that as long as we have breath we shall unrepentantly continue to deny this attempt by ‘he’ and his ilk to normalize his nastiness anywhere in the world. What irony, he remains critical of us even when we defend the work a known practitioner of his not so private behaviors

    Is anything on this blog research, ya jackass? It does not even meet the primary metrics for research. It is not intended to be. This is not an academic journal. Does ‘it’ even knows research standards. And because we said that we are researches must everything we write everywhere met research standards. If he knew anything about the US electoral system or had read any of the academicians who have focused on this subject he would not be talking this shite. In fact, there is good evidence to suggest Obama is serving a second term only because of an electronic failure on the other side. It is the criminal electoral US system which has given us new words – robo calling, Gerrymandering, etc

    Robert Ross has a buller’s mentality. Only a buller would come here and only find things to criticize but never ever writes an article of his ideas for other to judge. Only a buller would lack the decency to say he was wrong, on any subject, while accusing others of knowing all. Only a buller, like the Slimey Snide he is, would forever guttersnipe at others but never exposes his thinking for similar scrutiny. Only a buller would surreptitiously seek to misguide the blog with backward thinking. PS where is the evidence which supports your irrational claim that Bulling was with us from ‘time immemorial’.

  40. Mia firing of Maria Agard Avatar
    Mia firing of Maria Agard

    You think Simple Simon ? Lawyers work there by day and Lynch and others of that ilk work there by night and by that ilk I refer to TRANSVESTITES AND CROSS DRESSERS AKA as MUSCLE MARY AKA BARNEY LYNCH, AKA MR CARNIVAL CRUISE SHIP TO NO WHERE KICK BACK KING, OR AKA THE MILLION DOLLAR GREGG FARM PLANTATION OWNER PAID FOR BY CARNIVAL CRUISE LINES AND CWC.


  41. @ David
    ‘Wickham admitted it was an art’, and it is. But it has to be a science before it becomes art. As scientist, the statistician needs to make judgements as to which methods are best used to represent the perceptions of a population. Even the definition of what is to be the population is scientifically based. Or the sample size, or the type of sampling required. Or the test to which the sample will be subjected to, the reliability of each test, or the generalization of finding etc. It only becomes art once you have practiced the science for a long time. You get a feel for a data set. Wickham is an artist!


  42. generalizability


  43. @Pacha

    Of course the statistical analysis is science but the primary data is as a result of qualitative responses.


  44. @ David
    The differences between quantitative and qualitative data are centered around how data are collected. Qualitative data can be easily transformed in quantitative data. If fact, some scientists argue, we think incorrectly, that all data are quantitative.

  45. Mia firing of Maria Agard Avatar
    Mia firing of Maria Agard

    That data based on the way the questions are asked can predetermine the outcome that Cadres is trying to secure, lets take for example the last poll Cadres did in Tannis vs Bradshaw battle, (cant help but love the description that Arthur has for her he has said she is empty and useless and is as useful as a bag of Marl) but when the person conducting the poll asked a guy on the street he was quick to point out he was a DEM and will die a DEM the Cadres person then confronted him by saying that he should support Bradshaw because she is a nice young girl, now surely that is not the role of an information taker or collector, she and Cadres would be seen as arm of the BLP based on comments this representative of Cadres delivered of her own free will.

  46. overseasbajanyankee Avatar
    overseasbajanyankee

    @pacha

    polling is a science, the course which wickham would have taken in social science has always been known to a science and it called survey method of social investigation and it is one of the sociology courses.


  47. “Art”in what sense.to mis informed as what Wickham Poll did. or a compass with perfect percision and direction.wickham analogy and his terminology of “art”as it applies to polling can be construed as a blind man taking a walk down a dark alley hoping to shoot a”bullseye”


  48. @Pacha

    To repeat, BU’s position is that opinion polling is an art. Yes the methodology used to gather and represent the data uses science but the art is in the framing of the questions/instrument and this is where the crux of the definition must be located.

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