Submitted by Lemuel
…Class of 1969 (Professor Henry Fraser’s Class) 50% went to the US to do their internship and most of them never returned…
The University of the West Indies (UWI) was established in 1948. Currently, it has full campuses in Jamaica, Trinidad and Barbados. The Mona Medical Faculty started in 1948 with 33 students. To date, the UWI has produced over 7,000 medical graduates. In 2008, the Cave Hill Campus took the bold step to establish a full faculty of medical sciences.
History
The UWI took over from Codrington College, which was the only institution that offered higher education at the degree level by 1953. Degrees in the Classics, Humanities and Theology were offered. All of this was done in affiliation with Durham University. However, it should be noted that the primary intent of the Codrington Will was to ensure that the College would have offered medical degrees. It is not clear why that was not done.
Therefore, any Caribbean national seeking medical education had to journey to Canada, the UK and the US. By September 1946, with an affiliation with the University of London, a medical school was set up in Mona, Jamaica. Over 600 students applied for entry, but only 33 were accepted after enduring a “special entrance examination” and interviews.
By the 1960s, although UWI had expanded the medical school to accommodate more entrants, a large number of its graduates did not remain in the Caribbean. For example, in the Class of 1969 (Professor Henry Fraser’s Class) 50% went to the US to do their internship and most of them never returned.
By 1967, Trinidad expanded its capacity and the St. Augustine Campus emerged. This expansion also allowed further access to medical training by Caribbean applicants. However, the St. Augustine Campus was not allowed to expand into a full medical faculty. Barbados followed suit, and the Mona Campus then expanded its capacity to increase its student numbers. Because the Trinidad and Barbados medical schools did not have a full medical school status, it was agreed in 1974 that both Campuses would facilitate students to complete their 4th and 5th years.
So by 2008, the Cave Hill Campus only had a School of Clinical Medical Research, and it would have been 40 years that Cave Hill was facilitating the completion of the two finals years for medical students. All of this was accomplished at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital. The St. Augustine Campus also morphed into the Eric Williams Medical Sciences Complex by 1989.
Hence, in 2008 and after 40 years of providing facilities for the final 2 years, the Cave Hill Campus took what is now regarded as the bold step to morph into a full Faculty of Medical Sciences. The Government of Barbados approved the process and provided a Bds$ 25 million loan to accomplish the physical expansion.
A business plan was developed and produced by the University Business Office and Ernst and Young. The Business Plan projected that the medical school would funded by:
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The University Grants Committee,
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Tuition from private students,
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Endowments and donations, and
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The expansion of the existing student number from 40 or 50 to 100 in four or five years.
Reasons for the development of the full medical faculty at Cave Hill:
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The economic cost for student at Cave Hill was Bds$ 75, 000 a year. This cost was more than Mona or St. Augustine, and there were only 25 students per class.
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Students from the Eastern Caribbean were not applying.
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Only Barbadian student were registered.
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Mona and St. Augustine only accepted 1 in 5 or less applicants and were concentrating more on attracting international students.
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A huge demand from international students.
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By expanding, Cave Hill would be in a position to utilize its spare capacity and reduce its economic costs.
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More spaces for students from the Eastern Caribbean could be accommodated at Cave Hill.
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Both Mona and St. Augustine had expanded the intake to 200 annually.
Benefits
It was expected that the following benefits would have accrued:
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Lower economic costs from Bds $ 75, 000.00
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Expanded medical training places
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Improve Cave Hill’s reputation
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Improve the critical mass of faculty staff
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A full five year medical program
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Expanded post graduate medical training programs
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Development of a degree program in Biomedical science
I have provide the facts as detailed by the University of the West Indies Strategic Plan 2007 – 2012 and an article by Professor Henry Fraser, which was published in the West Indian Medical Journal in 2008.
The Moyne Commission clearly indicated that in 1948 a medical school to produce doctors for the British West Indies was a necessity.
History has shown that this was a good idea, as 66 years later in nearly all these islands, a very high percentage of the local doctors are UWI graduates.
Whether we need to have three medical schools, might be questionable.
@Lemuel
Based on your submission don’t see how Professor Fraser can be blamed for approving the centre at UWI.
Uwi cave hill may have bitten off more than they can chew.
Sir Hilary et al continue to make the point that UWI is the source of forex for Barbados in the millions. How can we prove the figure. It is a similar assertion we hear from Al Gilkes that Reggae on the Hill and related events is responsible for generating significant forex. Of course he never mentions the forex outflow to pay artistes.
On Saturday, 26 April 2014, Barbados Underground wrote:
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David
Do you know that there is an offshore school at Wildey?
Do you know the potential of an offshore school ?
Check the effects of Windsor in particular in St Kiits, MUA in Nevis, and Ross in Dominica.
UWI med school in BIM can be viable, but it has to be marketed.
@GP
Isn’t the high cost of living a factor?
Not saying that it is not a viable business however in the absence of a clear numbers explaining the business citizen journalists are left to speculate and ask questions.
Computers at present are making diagnoses. The push at Cave Hill and the other two campuses needs to be in IT.
Computers ‘will take middle-class jobs’: White collar posts in law, medicine and accounting increasingly under threat, says ex-No.10 adviser
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2613586/Computers-middle-class-jobs-White-collar-posts-law-medicine-accounting-increasingly-threat-says-ex-No-10-adviser.html#ixzz302DtnRIJ
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David
re citizen journalists are left to speculate and ask questions…..murdah!
I dont know the effect of the school at Wildey in driving up rents, or in creating landlords, but in the islands I mentioned, this is big buisness.
Governments see the students as virtual long stay tourists; rentals of houses and cars, increased supermarket sales etc
What I have not really seen is what else these schools offer the hosts islands in terms of specialist personnel, equipment etc
Anon
I do not know if you realize this fact, but doctors in America are now preforming electro- cardiograms (EKG), on they lab tops computers. I am assuming this technology has gotten to Barbados?
GP & David
Here is the Offshore Medical School at Wildey website
http://www.aubmed.org/overview.asp
Here is an interesting article from
http://www.stabroeknews.com/2012/archives/02/10/medical-school-in-barbados-can-rival-uwi/
Medical school in Barbados can rival UWI
FEBRUARY 10, 2012 · BY STABROEK EDITOR ·
(Barbados Nation) The American University of Barbados, whose official opening is set for today, can pose serious challenges to the University of the West Indies (UWI) medical school at Cave Hill when it comes to foreign students.
That warning, of sorts, came from Professor Nigel Harris, University of the West Indies Vice Chancellor, who admitted that Barbados’ recent decision to give the green light to an offshore medical school in the country caught him by surprise.
He told the DAILY NATION in New York that when the privately funded medical school, the first of its kind in Barbados but one of several in the Eastern Caribbean, gets going it could present Cave Hill with competition for foreign students.
“That surprised me, frankly,” Harris said of the Freundel Stuart administration’s decision to grant an operating licence to the American University. “The model for the faculty of medicine [at Cave Hill] is one that anticipated getting international students who would be paying full bore for their education. Now to have an international one, an offshore school, there would be a challenge. It does challenge the university’s school at Cave Hill.”
Thanks DD, do we know the exact date the UWI morph into a full faculty?
dAVID
ABOUT 2008
THEY HAVE HAD ONE FULL CLASS- WHICH APPARENTLY DID VERY WELL
Thanks GP, note that AUB opened in 2011.
David
School can work.
They need to target folk from the BRITISH COMMONWEALTH who can not get into their countries medical schools and who can pay the fees.
Lots of Indians and Africans are now going to AIMU IN sT lUCIA. tHEY SEND SOMEONE OUT THERE SOLLICITING THEM TO COME TO THIS BOGUS SCHOOL, WHERE YOU DONT HAVE TO PASS EXAMS interalia
Teaching at AUB started in January 2012
anon
I hear you. The problem is that the laws will change to protect the practices, as has already been witnessed with the architects …!
WRT a business plan Lemuel, should it not work out as planned the developers of the plan should be exposed and ridiculed …! Ha .. There was a business plan for the renovation of the airport, and one for the rebuilding of Kensington Oval … and they were expensive. Now comparing plan to reality, what should you expect .. huh?
BTW, I doubt very much whether there was a business plan for the new Supreme Court or the new Church Village (Central Bank) Park. I wonder who is funding this new Nelson Mandela Park … surely not a bankrupt university …!
There is a big difference between a business plan and a bunch of bullshit.
A business plan is a very detailed operating plan with associated financials that are based on realistic performance projections.
Even if a small fellow wanted to sell some fish cakes at Cropover he is asked to develop a ‘business plan’….
So in all seriousness David / Lemuel, there must be a PROPER plan in place for this medical school, and from that plan it MUST be clear what are the deviations between projections and reality. ……cause what we have so far is just so much bullshit……of the type that is typically used to get brass bowls to approve projects – that in turn end up meeting some hidden agendas.
Where is the urgent need for more doctors in Barbados? …to do what? Sell more prescription drugs?
We have already passed the point where patients can get a better prognosis by properly managing their health and by using google- than from the expensive 10 minute visit with a tired and stressed doctor.
A student may want to be a ‘doctor’ as some kind of prestige thing, but how do you incur huge national debts in order to pander to such a fetish?
Why the hell did Sir Cave not start an engineering school ? …or a Business Management school? Or one in political ethics?
…of course this was all done on the basis that the brass bowl government would just pick up whatever tab was presented to them….
Baffy…did you not hear Sir Cave talking about the basis for starting the Mandela Park on CBC…?
LOL….sounded like a young fellow deciding to buy a little car – knowing that once he paid the first installment and got it home, his parents would feel obligated to put up the rest…and give him gas money too….
If this is typical of the standard of decision making at these levels it is no wonder that we are doomed….
bush tea i got to handed it to you fuh when it comes to criticism….yuh not short on words,,,,,, the most probable cause maybe an acute systematic approval of verbal diarrhea lodge in the back of yuh throat……the most likely symptoms are as follow
censure, condemnation, denunciation, disapproval, disparagement, opprobrium, fault-finding, attack, broadside, stricture, recrimination; More
informalflak, , panning, put down, knock, slam, brickbats, potshot(s); just in case i missed any of the symptoms i did not mean to offend you….
Bush Tea
Yep … you smell this rat too, nuh
Lemuel:
Bushie and Baffy, I purposely did not include any opinions from me in this article. I left the speculation to the BU family. Personally, I do believe that we need a medical school. Our students have been building up Jamaica and Trinidad for years, especially our Barbados Scholar who think they must go to the ends of the earth to do some thing that can be done right here in Barbados. When you look at their contribution to the development of Barbados; it is small indeed. Based, on the Cave Hill program our medical students should only be going overseas for post graduate studies.
The off shore school in Wildey was to attract students from India. However, I am seeing in the media students from all over the place including Barbados.
Georgie:
You are right ; there is money in foreign students, but Cave Hill would have to lower its entrance requirements to attract them. That is where the difficulty lies.
Georgie Porgie
It seems as though your focused effort is on who attends medical school in Barbados, rather than on a healthcare – system which is scientifically and technologically equipped to meet the medical needs of the Barbadian public?
Bushie:
Please. all business plans are pure projections. Somewhere the plan would make a case for why the business can be successful or not, based on the other players and the market that was currently available or will be available in the future.
From Prof. Fraser’s writings, it was calculated, in the Business Plan, that the medical could begin with 40 or 50 students and then expand to 100 in four or five years. That expansion would have included Foreign students and more students from the eastern Caribbean.
The point you missed is that the Medical School’s replaced the Clinical school at the QEH with only 25 students which was costing Barbados a lot of money.
@ ac
Good that you used the analogy of the human body.
As you know (or in your case SHOULD know 🙂 ) , there are different parts of the body doing different functions. Bushie is constantly casting a revealing light on the activities of the body……not Bushie’s fault if that light constantly shows up a lotta shiite….
Your very important role however is to release shiite on a regular basis…..and one thing about you ac….you are regular..!! No laxatives needed at all….
@ Lemuel
Boss man….don’t tell Bushie about business plans…..or cost-benefit analyses and those things …. 🙂
You must know that ANY jackass can get up one morning and say that they will build a waste-to-energy plant for $430M and that it will produce 30 MW and make a profit and we all will live happily afterwards….
….or that they will open a medical school and that 100 students- including 50 from overseas will attend and pay $75,000 per year
…how hard was that?
BUT …a business plan MUST include a logical, practical analysis that explores the business environment and the likely competition – among MANY other factors that could impact on success….AND. MUST OUTLINE CONTINGENCY PLANS TO ADDRESS THESE.
….anything else is pure shiite talk….best located in rum shops.
So where is such analysis documented?
What were the contingency plans?
What steps are being taken to deal with the deviations from plan?
…..and most importantly, WHO are those benefitting DESPITE the obvious failure of the ill-conceived project?
You think Bushie just come to town Lemmie? 🙂
Agree with you Bushie, the busonessplan used to buildout the medical centre ar UWI, Cave Hill shoulduld be made public in the interest of transparency. In fact serious audits need to be done how UWI, Cave Hill allocate resources and decisions taken which have implications for taxpayers.
Bushie:
You being unreasonable now. A business is a projection; a projection that could lead to success of failure. If the UWI and Ernst and Young did a business plan it was the duty of the Government, especially the Ministry of Finance to assess the feasibility of the Plan. Do not blame the UWI if they put something to government and government accept the thing because they think everybody at Cave Hiill bright, bright! I t is so easy to throw around blame on hind sight. I know you aint now come because you is a bald pouch tormentor!
David:
I do not see how you will get these documents to be public, but I agree they should be, and the Auditor General should have had a peek at them!
@Lemuel
A robust businessplan uses assumptions which are anchored in historical data informed by how other similar businesses operate across similar environments. Like Bushie stated if in this case the businessplan is based on a % of foreign students what have we done to encourage international registration to ensure the assumptions are realized?
david and bushie,,,,,,,both of u have one thing in common…..to pile on …..and attack,,,,,, nothing personnal …..just one persons obersavation……..
What has happened to the old fashion Feasibility- Study, which test the validity of a given endeavor?
David:
The Ministry of Education needs to make a clear policy, it was bantered about but never implemented, about where student who are on government scholarships should study. If these students want to study a discipline abroad, it should be something that is not offered at Cave Hill. If they insist that is what they want then they and they parents can fund it.
Those students who study at Ross, St. Georges etc the respective government bend over to accommodate these entrants. What have we been doing Lemuel?
David;
I checked and the second or third batch of students at Cave Hill has a lot more foreign students. However, I still can not speak to the viability of the school.
nothing that david or bushie has said over the past seven years has seen the light, of day ,,most of which has fell on deaf years and thrown into the rubbish heap for disposal…..bush still calling on his imaginary friend BBE to step in and take things ova and david waiting to see barbados disappeared in the ocean has not yet happened,,far from it the govt is still running and a prediction of 3% percent growth on the horizion…added to that a 54% of govt approval,,,,,,just one persons observation…….have a nice day,,,,,
@ac
And yet you are here, every day, since October 2009, posting your partisan dribble. You may have the last word.
@Lemuel
For the purpose of this discussion a business plan equates to a fiesibilty study.
Don’t be sidetracked by the pedantic amongst us.
Bushie and David:
I believe both of you are putting too much faith in this failure proof business plan. The government now has to do due diligence to see if the school is performing as it should. I would give to the fact that it is being funded by public funds and there should be some public discussion on its future.
David:
The students at those off shore schools are normally student who can not gain admission to the regular medical school so the off shore is their option. Cave Hill would have to lower its admission standards and I would rather that they close the school than do that to Cave Hill. A step like that would devalue the reputation that Cave Hill has built up over time.
Dompey:
You are correct; it seems as if no one did a feasibility study for the medical school.
@Lemuel
Like Bushie stated a sound businessplan is the basis to measure the performance of the Medical Clinic on a monthly, quarterly basis. By doing so quick and relevant decisions can be taken.
Would like to get Doc GP’s view on the entry qualifications for offshore medicals compared to say Cave Hill.
On Sunday, 27 April 2014, Barbados Underground wrote:
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The Business plan should be made public, or at least the projections… Ernst and Young my ass …
Lems, the Cave Hill admission standard has always been low. That is the Cave Hill model … admitting low but finishing high (for all except the lawyers, starting low and finishing lower – nice catch Bushie on the School of Ehtics).
Look, last year a large number of students had difficulty finding hospitals to do internships. I do not believe anything has been done to make things any better for this year. If I am right, there is another problem in the mix
David
The ac that has been writing on BU for the last few months is not the ac from 2009.
@Baffy
If you say so.
The entry requirements matriculation at UWI,Cave Hill has been questioned. Can anyone shed an inside light?
On Sunday, 27 April 2014, Barbados Underground wrote:
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AC
You could have said it better…. I think many here are already cognizant of that unadulterated fact. David, plays the antagonist role too well, when he obviously should be the mediator. As for Bush Tea: we haven’t as yet invented the appropriate terminology to properly describe this twisted character. I am down to my last brain cell and trying my best to figure out what makes this character function in flesh. And brothers, I have show your faults without envious malignity or superstitious veneration. lol
This is a WAR, and PM fumble always giving up land , We smell plenty RATS and snakes .More like a FIRE SALE
BAFBFP:
The Cave Hill standards for law and medicine continue to be high. The batch of 23 who graduated all had at least two grade ones in the Biology, Chemistry and Physics. I think a few were Barbados Scholars and a few were Exhibition winners. Prof. Fraser made sure he selected a good crop for the first round.
There no problems with the internships; Trinidad has places, St. Lucia (you have to do two tears) and to a lesser extent Jamaica. The UWI and the Caribbean governments need to improve the regional hospitals that internships programs can be facilitated. Each country is looking after they own craw this is why Barbados needs to have a medical program and a school of legal education too, and stop students going to Trinidad.
@Lemuel
How does your last comment align with Caricom ideals and integration thrust?
On Sunday, 27 April 2014, Barbados Underground wrote:
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Interesting to note an ad placed prominently in today’s newspaper by AUB.
What does this mean? Competition for registrations?
Legal Education before advanced IT, Material Science, Industrial Design, Food Tech, Aquaculture and some fancy ones like nano-tech and robotics that would surely attract the males back to the academic arena
Plantation Deeds
I am glad you think that it is your civic duty to inform and educate the public conscience, on issues which are integral to its very survival. But I only hope that you turn a spotlight inwards and examine your conduct with a strict scrutiny, when you advance speculation which does a disservice to the present administration.
David:
In the CARICOM arena there is more talk than action unless it is to the benefit or advantage of the said State. Those CARICOM ministerial meetings have long become a trip for those close to the Minister and a free lunch at the workers of the Caribbean expense with a full dose of a lotta long talk.
We as Caribbean Nationals do more about the integration process than all those meetings since the start of CARICOM.
Baffy
I agree with you and it seems as if the Dean in the Faculty of Science and Technology is trying to get out there promoting the push that is needed. Weneed to make learning science and technology more interesting. But in Barbados, we do not have the industries for young minds to see the relationship between theory and technology in action.
Then is it time that Caribbean use ( MIT ), The Massachusetts Institute of Technology, as a pattern for a technology school in the future. This is one of the leading technical school in the world and a forerunner in cancer research as well as the latest technological innovations. This is where Bill Gates gets the best and the brightest to run Microsoft.
Look people, bushmen cut straight to the root of the issue….
who don’t like um could lump um…
The Medical School was formulated on the SAME IDENTICAL BASIS as the “one graduate in each household” philosophy….that is to register AS MANY BODIES AS POSSIBLE at Cave Hill – and then bill the stupid-ass Barbados Government (ie Bajan Brass Bowl taxpayers) on a per-head basis…..and the doctors are billed at a HIGH rate….not like the social science Shiites….
That was the “Business Plan”.
It was a brilliant plan – cause every numbskull wants to be a doctor…the easiest job in the world….
…all you have to do is listen to the complaints of a procession of idiots for five to ten minutes, prescribe them some random pain killers, anti- histamines or antibiotics – and charge them $120…(paid through some rip off Insurance scheme)
Shiite man… That is 120X 30 = $3600 per DAY …..$18,000 per week …. $32,000 per month.
….and you hardly pay ANY tax
….and even if patients don’t get better, they have to keep coming back (and paying) in order to get more time off from work….
….and if you miss and prescribe the wrong thing, or if the person just old and decrepit like ac…you just bury the mistake…
Shiite then….it was a WIN WIN for everyone – except the Bajan brass bowls…who like being pissed on anyway…
The ONLY problem is that the old proverb about “a fool and his money” being parted has finally caught up with us …..and we can’t even borrow OTHER people’s money anymore….
So Sir Cave Hilary’s scheme has been left exposed in its nakedness….
Lemuel
The damn Emperor is naked….. Stop playing you ain’t know….
@Bushie
We are all aware, and we hope Margaret Sivers is as well, doctors maintain two ‘books’.
On Sunday, 27 April 2014, Barbados Underground wrote:
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LOL Ha Ha …oh Shiite!!! …….hear Dompey…
++++++++++++
“As for Bush Tea: we haven’t as yet invented the appropriate terminology to properly describe this twisted character. I am down to my last brain cell and trying my best to figure out what makes this character function in flesh.”
+++++++++++++
First thing donkey, …it is not as though you have that many brain cells….your last one is actually quite near to your first…..so stop trying to ‘figure out’ Bushie before you hurt yourself…. 🙂
Second, there is no need to INVENT any terminology to describe Bushie…the bushman has ALREADY provided the terminology….
Bushie is one of BBE’s boys…..what more do you want? A miracle?
Lemuel
I am afraid I do not share your pessimism, regarding the young mind in Barbados. Because if India, which was arguably, one of the poorest countries in the world some fifty years could do it. Then certainly, there is hope and optimism for the young minds in Barbados Lemuel.
Bushie:
You have not factored in the “old boys club” which operates in the Caribbean that will never allow the field of medical education to be accessed by any tom fool or henry winkle. So that graduate for each house hold model is for the humanities not medicine or law. You are fooling yourself.
Don’t think I am going to be side tracked by those kinds of attacks; I am not Georgie. Come again Bush Man. I aint no Dompey. You are a real bald pouch attacker. I can not do the smilie thing or I would send one!
@Lemuel
It goes back to a leadership vacuum, the tail is wagging the dog. The UWI’s plan has to feed off a national and regional strategic plan. This is where leadership should be coming from Caricom.
On Sunday, 27 April 2014, Barbados Underground wrote:
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Dompey
What are you talking about?
Dompey…..I am told you can also get a neurological test, NCV, done in Barbados, using a computer,shock and needles, heard they are very accurate….kudos.
Lemuel
….don’t miss the point
Bushie is NOT saying that riff raff are inducted into the medical field, but that the school was CREATED to attract the hoards who dream of being doctors …and set for life.
OBVIOUSLY, with a target roll of 50, and a natural high demand, the academic standard would be high….but Sir Cave’s bill to us brass bowl taxpayers would be EVEN HIGHER…… $$$$$$
…and leave out the smiley thingy bozie….there is a Jack donkey blogger blamed Boremann who does catch a fit when you LOL or 🙂 🙂
Ha Ha Ha
Bushie:
I thought that Easter smoke had gone to your head. I can agree with the last point but ONLY that last point! The old boys club was getting very scared by Cuba’s policy of training nuff nuff doctors, and they have Sparman to contend wid, with him actually lowering the cost of medical care for heart disease.
Who are the two doctors before the medical council?
Obviously Sparman must be one of them?
On Sunday, 27 April 2014, Barbados Underground wrote:
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Why does Lemuel want Bajan Scholars/Exhbition winners, one and the same, to be stuck in Barbados where they do not have many options to spread their wings and expand their brain cells, but only stagnate in a society that hates creativity……I know scholars studying disciplines in countries around the world that would take UWI another 50 years to understand not to mention be able to pay professors to teach, all the while Lemuel wants students to come to Barbados in droves so they can spend their money and enrich the island, India, China, Japan, US, Canada, England, Trinidad etc, exports their students by the hundreds yearly, all may not return but alot do……..sounds kinda strange.
Well
We do our undergraduate medical program very well. These winners can go unto their graduate studies any where they want and at the same time save the government money. We spend enormous sums sending these students all over the world but then they go and live somewhere else and Barbados does not benefit.
Well Well if you do not understand this business stay out of it. It is not as simplistic as you would want to make it.
Lemuel…….it appears you are speaking about med students only, still there are some specialties of medicine that IS NOT done in Barbados, telling me staying out of it will not solve the problem, nothing is simple or simplistic particularly when you are dealing with people whose minds are warped and stagnated, I understand their are med students in Barbados who graduated and interned and cannot be placed, WHY?? Barbados has ONE frigging hospital, so tell me, where would you have those new doctors go? and work for Seale, SY Adams…..As far as i know the scholars who leave Barbados (some were my relatives) are more than happy to contribute but are told upon their return to Barbados “you think you could come back here and change things, you better go back where you come from’ so don’t try to feed me bullshit Lemuel, I know much better.
David
I find much of the above very amusing- especially by those who think they know and have gone off at a tangent.
There is a man who owned two of the leading offshore schools in the Carribean. He spent 20 years at Ross and learned the offshore school buisness before he made his move. As the geru, he said that having 90 students is the break even point.His schools were both booked up two years in advance
Since 2002, when I first started teaching at these schools over 20 new schools have started. UWI, Mona, which previously catered to West Indians have expanded the physical plant and the intake to include overseas students.
@GP
How do we compare the standard between UWI and the offshore schools?
Are the facilities comparable etc?
Well Well
That is unfortunate that that happened to your family. However, get me carefully, Barbados does a very good job with the undergraduate degree in medicine. Obviously, if these graduates wanted to specialized they would have to go overseas. However, they should pay for their specialization not the tax payers of Barbados, unless they are coming back here to practice which means the government would have sponsored them to do the specific specialization.
If an individual wants to specialize in whatever out side of what is needed here then he or she should pay for it. If that is bull shit , I am very sorry. If the only one hospital needs x number of GP why train Z number?
Everybody I am taking a break to eat something.
Lawyers should never ask a Georgia grandma a question if they aren’t prepared for the answer.
In a trial, a Southern small-town prosecuting attorney called his first witness, a grandmotherly, elderly woman to the stand. He approached her and asked, ‘Mrs. Jones, do you know me?’ She responded, ‘Why, yes, I do know you, Mr. Williams. I’ve known you since you were a boy, and frankly, you’ve been a big disappointment to me. You lie, you cheat on your wife, and you manipulate people and talk about them behind their backs. You think you’re a big shot when you haven’t the brains to realize you’ll never amount to anything more than a two-bit paper pusher. Yes, I know you.’
The lawyer was stunned. Not knowing what else to do, he pointed across the room and asked, ‘Mrs. Jones, do you know the defense attorney?’
She again replied, ‘Why yes, I do. I’ve known Mr. Bradley since he was a
youngster, too. He’s lazy, bigoted, and he has a drinking problem. He can’t build a normal relationship with anyone, and his law practice is one of the worst in the entire state. Not to mention he cheated on his wife with three different women. One of them was your wife. Yes, I know him.’
The defense attorney nearly died.
The judge asked both counselors to approach the bench and, in a very quiet voice, said,
‘If either of you idiots asks her if she knows me, I’ll send you both to the electric chair.
DBLP will face the same thing, if they ever go to court….
No comparison. The Americans go at a quicker pace. Inconceivable how students can learn anything.But their system is not designed to produce the basic alround doctor but to produce slaves for what they call a residency–in which you specialize.
Have a friend a surgeon from the Univerity of Kenya who was put to teach Anatomy in 4 months. He was accustomed to doing it thoroughly in 18 months.
I thank god that I went ti UWI. THE EXTERNAL EXAMINERS SPOKE HIGHLY OF OUR STUDENTS CLINICAL SKILLS
Thanks GP, so the question for the guys at UWI selling to the world is to show how UWI is different vis a vis offshore?
FACILITIES ARE GENERALLY POOR EXCEPT THE VERY BEST SCHOOLS.
IN THE YEAR I TAUGHT AT AIMU THERE WERE NO CADAVERS TO TEACH THE ANATOMY DISSECTIONS, AND STUDENTS WERE GENERALLY PASSED WHO FAILED EXAMS. THIS TO PREVENT THEM FROM TRANSFERRING TO OTHER SCHOOLS
UWI NEEDS TO ADVERTISE THEIR MBBS PROGRAM TO STUDENTS FROM COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD THAT DO THE MBBS, AND WHO CAN NOT GET INTO THEIR OWN SCHOOLS BECAUSE OF CORRUPTION ETC
One response to “If tourism is our main economic engine, let’s ban billboards on the ABC Highway”
@ DAVID & G P, THERE ARE A LOT OF STUDENTS IN CANADA WHO CAN’T GET INTO MEDICAL SCHOOL EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE A+ ACADEMICALLY.
UWI BARBADOS COULD TARGET THESE STUDENTS.
Lemuel…..the government PAY for children of the RICH to study, what is the damn difference.
@ DAVID & G P, THERE ARE A LOT OF STUDENTS IN CANADA WHO CAN’T GET INTO MEDICAL SCHOOL EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE A+ ACADEMICALLY.
UWI BARBADOS COULD TARGET THESE STUDENTS AS WELL AS STUDENTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.
Deeds:
I just love that lawyer joke. I never thought with all the fraud and thing that you had such humor within.
Well Well
If the children from poor families would learn something then they could be scholars like the rich who invest in lessons and other preparation from the 11+. We are caught up with being the next Rhiana and smoking crap like it out of style. The rich can send their pickney overseas for treatment but we have a paro paradise here for the poor with a dash of Jenkins!
@Hants
Correct which is why GP was asked the question about how do we differentiate in our marketing effort.
Hants:
I agree and Georgie has been making that point. Cave Hill needs to know where it can source potential students. However, we must ensure that these student are safe. A recent incident would suggest that we are not paying enough attention to safety for these people. Like telling them Barbados is no paradise and there are places you should not go alone.
Lemuel | April 27, 2014 at 6:38 PM |
Deeds:
I just love that lawyer joke. I never thought with all the fraud and thing that you had such humor within@
THANKS , I am as real as they come. Yes plenty of Jokes and fun, Those who know Me cant believe that i a this age, No need to be an grump when its not needed,
Many have said i should be the most VEX man on this Island , Understand and know when you are dealing with truth none can get you VEX nor mad ,We enjoy seeing them run and hide like little Bitches for the Sins they are still doing and the people pay the price in more TAXES and VAT , All will end soon , Hold us to out word, All you have to do is VOTE when you see up coming .
I hope that the brainiacs at UWI has done the cost comparison between fees at UWI and Universities in Canada.
Seems to me it cost twice as much in Canada.
Lemuel……the rich, i repeat, the rich in Barbados do not have to pay out of pocket for their children’s education if they do not want to, the taxpayers foot that bill, I don’t know which Barbados you live in, but it is a reality….so there is absolutely no difference whether the government funds specialized studies for scholars because they fund studies for kids of the rich.
Hants……slightly over twice, very nearly three times as much
Barbados has been educating people from all over the Caribbean.
Remember when the rich Venezuelans sent their children to private school in Barbados?
Create great schools and market them. Education is a commodity.
Hants and Well Well:
Somebody needs to talk to Prof. Branday; he took over from Prof Fraser. Or somebody needs to talk to Hilary, while he is selling repars he can sell the medical school.
Well Well:
We seem to be talking in different directions, and you are becoming frustrated. We need to connect.
Well Well:
If the rich are paying their taxes why shouldn’t their children benefit from the educational system. By the way, they only send their children to Harrisons, Queens or St. MIchael. Then it is private schools.
Schools
The word DISTRICT is a code word for black and all other none whites in America , Means that these type of people children go to school there,
Also as in WASHINGTON District of Columbia . DC
SCHOOL SYSTEM is a CODE word for where most white kids go to school,
Curriculum is what is different , but yet they both seem to take the same SAT.
What information is leave out of the books and what is tested is to be the same no matter where you go , And even if you fail the test , they may move you on to the next grade
The slave plantation is now McDs, BK , Walmart,Price Clubs, BJS and so on.
The reason the children have summer time off ,is so that the big companies can have cheap , slave labor for the Summer , As in Summer JOBS and not Summer Work.
The Word JOB pays less than WORK , SO ask for Work and not for JOB,
The Question is < Do we seem to have that In Barbados Also? Are all the books the same in all school and subjects? Most will never past what they never was taught.
In case you dont know Lemuel, if the kids of the rich in Barbados get a scholarship, they too are allowed to choose a university outside of Barbados at taxpayer’s expense, they do not have to pay if they choose not too, again, what is the difference to taxpayers funding specialized studies for scholarship winners. I don’t know if you ever lived in the US, but scholarships are for those who cannot afford to pay for university, not for the kids of rich people.
Lem……it might sound like frustration to you, but there was a method to the madness…….lol
Just because rich parents pay taxes does not mean taxpayers should pay for their children’s university education when they themselves can afford to do so, children of the poor who pay taxes and cannot afford university should be given preference, that is and will always be my point, i cannot see where it is fair to the taxpayers that a rich parent can afford university but it’s the taxpayers paying for their child’s education……it’s a little more than ass backwards.
Deeds:
The books are the same but the preparation differs. You do not have to bright to do well at the top schools. What I find is that even in our top schools critical thinking is lacking. And at times all of us a joyous about (Barbados Scholars) someone who just remembered more than the others with little thought to what was being remembered.
Well
I think we are back in business.
Well Well
They are bright people in the US, black, white, Hispanic, Haitian , there are scholarships for bright people in the US too. All scholarships are not developmental in nature.
Lemuel | April 27, 2014 at 7:11 PM | @
Please understand the LITTLE ROCK 9
THE so- whites did not want the poor so called blacks to see what the so called whites were learning in schools, It seem they needed time to remove the information. College of University level is were now the blacks had to go to see what they were learning for free, But the blacks did not have money to pay for the next level .
New York State Constitution , says , the State will provide for free common school and a elementary education, Which is only to a 8th grade level, After 8th grade and age they dont care if you are in school or not, Be on the street and jail is next ,
Is Barbados headed that way?
The main issue is the opportunity for Barbados to improve the “Education Industry.”
Selling Education is not a new idea..
Lemuel can you shed light on this project?
Have we factored in the fact that universities as we know them will soon become very rare as the free online education takes over…..as shown below.
https://optimized-by.rubiconproject.com/t/1032/13817/142646-15.3371632.3456358?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.edx.org%2F%3Futm_source%3Drubicon%26utm_medium%3Dadunits%26utm_term%3DJune2013%26utm_content%3D300x250%26utm_campaign%3DedX
@Vincent
Yes online will be integrated more and more but some disciplines will always require land based universities and also there is the optional experience for those who can acford it to experience cultural diversity.
David:
From what the Advocate carried when Wayne Kirton was running Invest Barbados, this is a group, American World Clinics, who leased or was supposed to lease the St. Joseph Hospital property. The project never got off the ground, as the group seem to have had some difficulty attracting investment.
Some of our eye specialists and dentists have a difficulty with the project as it could put more choices in the health market here.
Vincent:
There is a training process that happens through face to face that online can not replace. Even when courses are being run online in Europe there is normal practice to factor in a certain percentage of face to face. It is like moving from cape or A levels to a graduate degree with the experience of the bachelor.
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