Submitted by William Skinner
It is understandable, that Mr. Ralph Boyce, unlike many of his counterparts, who would have opted for a retirement of leisure, has chosen to utilize his vast skills to better the society. He has been attempting with some moderate success to do so via the Men’s Educational support Association (MESA). I compliment Boyce on his efforts because in our class based society, we find retirees of Boyce’s ilk hanging out in church groups; service clubs and other more “acceptable “organizations. Seldom do they engage themselves in organizations that are attempting to rid the society of known prejudices or injustices. Men in our society have huge psychological hurdles to overcome; one major challenge is accepting that the modern woman is not their beloved mothers or grandmothers. Unfortunately, MESA has become the dwelling place for men who need psychologists more than they need MESA.
Within this organization, there are men who honestly believe that they have been wronged by women. Well I have news for them: Within the National Organization of Women (NOW), there are women who believe that they have been wrong by men! The mistake that Boyce has made is that he has allowed himself to be drawn into public squabbling with some females, who find the direction of MESA troubling. I honestly cannot blame them. His followers are therefore of the belief that MESA should be concerned mainly with pointing out how bad women are and how men have suffered at their hands. Such an approach is doomed to absolute failure.
One of the recurring topics at MESA is the unfaithfulness of women to men who have been good to them. In other words: If men give food clothing and lodging, a woman is supposed to prove her gratitude by being faithful.
They need to understand that a woman’s body belongs to her and she uses it at her own discretion. Violating women and physically abusing them is not acceptable under any circumstances. I believe that Mia Mottley, the Leader of the Opposition, put it best when she said that: “men should learn how to take a horn”.
I would have thought that MESA would have been more focused on really educating men about being better role models and availing themselves of the educational opportunities, rather than being outstripped by women, almost or above, two to one, when it comes to graduates of universities and other places of learning. Boyce should have been explaining to men that women are now more independent and are not going to stand for the nonsense that earlier generations endured. I would have thought that Boyce would be informing them that multiple relationships and refusing to look after their children is not the way to go. In other words: bury or forget the village ram mentality. And finally, MESA could have been in the forefront of defending and lobbying for gay men to be treated fairly and the removal of all discrimination against them.
I am therefore totally in agreement with the comments made by Talk Show host Peter Wickham, in a recent broadcast, when he was critical of the direction that MESA is taking. Boyce as a former chief education officer, and as fine a gentleman as any that I have ever met, needs to change direction and mend fences with NOW. My simple suggestion to Boyce and MESA is that they refocus and don’t allow the organization to become another: I say dem say. Time for NOW and MESA to fight common causes, not to have needles and pins with each another. And embarrassing public squabbles. As is often said to doctors: physician heal thyself. Now to Boyce I respectfully say: Educator, educate yourself and followers. Put the real E in MESA: Education. Try to avoid that other E: Emotionalism or misplaced male Egos.
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This is a good piece. You were balanced and seem to know and understand Mr. Boyce. He means well but somehow he has found himself surrounded by henpecked men most of whom need to grow a pair of balls.
i am a big advocate of Woman’s right , i also remember that some issues which were presented to the public as obstacles to woman to achievement were soundly rejected and so seen as being doomed to failure,,,,,,, ironically some of the same issues presented by MEsa in regards to prejuidce and the fair treatment of men are NOW being rejected by woman as pertaining to men…. It is also interesting that the article stereotype men as village rams and being psychological defiant,,,,,,,,much in the same way woman were being stereotyped as whores and bloodsuckers of men…not surprising that NOW and MESA are fighting ……..,instead of reaching out to each other they are busy stereotyping both genders,,,,,at this point both groups are equally to blame for the lack of meaningful dialogue on issues that are problematic to a society,
Gender issues are and will always be emotive and it gets worst when those with public bully pulpits can sound off a little louder than the other. The argument must go pass if it is right for a man to abuse a woman and although others don’t see it as an issue whether women should do same. However, the root of the issue which a caring society must also grapple with is to try to uncover those issues which drive men to be violent especially the physical kind. These kinds of issues are messy and the several players must not forget men are raised by women.
An excellent and well balanced piece Skins; but if I can give my two cents worth on this most subjective topic engaging the attention of both men and women in recent times I would focus on this excerpt in your post ” One of the recurring topics at MESA is the unfaithfulness of women to men who have been good to them. In other words: If men give food clothing and lodging, a woman is supposed to prove her gratitude by being faithful”
and what we always tend to ignore in propagating that view is that the same applies to women as well. Let me make it clear that I do not hold the view that because a man provides for a woman she is his slave to do as he pleases but equally this goes for women as well. The Encyclopedic word dictionary describes ‘ Faithful’ as -STRICT OR THOROUGH IN THE PERFORMANCE OF DUTY-TRUE TO ONE’S WORD,PROMISE, VOWS, -FULL OF OR SHOWING LOYALTY OR FIDELITY- THAT MAY BE RELIED UPON, TRUSTED, OR BELIEVED- The question is which of these meanings ascribed to ‘Faithful’ are applicable to the expectations in relationships between men and women. i am aware of the impression true or false that in bygone days women were forced to remain with men for support; but tales from older women folk in those days recounting how ‘they did this and that to men’ who stepped out of line does not suggest that the impression that women had to do as they were told by men was generally the norm. So women who gave their bodies to men in relationships expected the men to prove their gratitude by being faithful. The bottom line is that women are just as vicious to men as men to women but we tend to see women always as the victim. If a man breaks off a longstanding relationship to enter into a relationship with another woman ; you hear that he in no good, how the woman do this for him and that for him and he want poisoning and such like; but if a woman breaks off a relationship in similar circumstances and the man keep hanging around; you hear that he in doing he job, why he don’t leave the woman; she should have left he ever since. So i applaud Mr Boyce’s efforts in trying to highlight the difficulties men endure in relationships where all the cards seemed to be stacked in favour of women. Growing up under the Union jack, relationships were formulated out of some form of mutual respect which could be influenced by charisma, good-looks, intellect referred to as ‘bright’, or class. Gifts or favours did not play a huge role in my time because we were all scraping the bottom of the barrel. Nowadays, women play the wicket and seem to accept gifts from the halt, lame and blind as long as it satisfies their interest and that is where the problem lies because of this now prevalent attitude of women wanting something from men. Men see gifts as an investment in women and depending on the nature of the gift expect a level of behaviour from women which promotes them as the one in charge. All men/women are not blessed with the tolerance and commonsense to walk away. So just as we are warned to lock up our own houses or cars for safety; I would like to implore the women in these days to choose their relationships carefully and beware from whom they take gifts because these are different times and just like in times before when women put cement or pee in food for their men or do other vile things to express their displeasure; the men in these days are a different kettle of fish and rather than commit suicide are not afraid to maim or even kill if they are put in a position of embarrassment. Yes, men do not own women nor women men but I plead with women to be careful about whom they allow to invest in them.
@William Skinner “I would have thought that Boyce would be informing them that multiple relationships and refusing to look after their children is not the way to go. In other words: bury or forget the village ram mentality. And finally, MESA could have been in the forefront of defending and lobbying for gay men to be treated fairly and the removal of all discrimination against them.”
Isn’t this what Boyce has attempted to do? Does anyone think just telling men to stop beating women etc is the solution? Why do some men feel they have to hit women and these kinds of men span all demographics.
@”beware from whom they take gifts”
A lotta women don’t get gifts. Hell man, a lotta women can’t even get child money from the father’s of their children.
And hello men. Child support is NOT A GIFT TO THE WOMAN. Child support to buy food, housing, education, utilities, health care, recreation etc for your children, and IT IS AN INVESTMENT IN YOUR OWN FUTURE. Men who won’t support their children suffer real, real bad in their old age.
A word to the wise is sufficient.
Regurgitating the same old sterotyocal arguments old stalemate and downplays thwhat are relevant issues and challenges that both sides need to adress..one of the burning issue boyce seem to have is asking the emale audience to join him in adressing the problem of woman not allowing men who faithfully pay child suppport toses
The main issue which Boyce MESA has is the need to address why men are driven to abuse women. Nalita if you are reading we would like to have your thoughts, walking out of fora to address tbe issue will not di it.
Regurgitating the same old sterotyocal arguments old stalemate and downplays thwhat are relevant issues and challenges that both sides need to adress..one of the burning issue boyce seem to have is asking the emale audience to join him in adressing the problem of woman not allowing men who faithfully pay child supp
So i applaud Mr Boyce’s efforts in trying to highlight the difficulties men endure in relationships where all the cards seemed to be stacked in favour of women and (THE BELOW S SHOULD HAVE FOLLOWED-
I empathise with his difficulties as well in trying to be balanced in promoting his view on such a sensitive and motional issue where women are generally regarded as the victims.
Regurgitating the same old sterotypical arguments are groundless and leads to nowhere rather than relying on hardened gacts and substantial evidence.Mesa does hhave brought to public a question one that must be address by both groups in regards to men who pay and lack of fair treatment from woman and the judicial system.as of now woman failure to address in a fair way is mind boggling
@ William Skinner
We are living in the Aquarian Age. It is a time when women and water shall rule, period! We accepted these radical ideas in ways that people who know us well are well aware. These forces cannot, in the least, be influenced by the likes of Ralph Boyce, Barack Obama or anybody else. However, Skinner’s philosophical underpinnings must be more deeply rooted and not just be calibrated to appease the unenlightened majority here or within the commentariat on the local radio. He must fly against the winds of the popular narratives.
First he certainly cannot, on the one hand, be arguing for a matriarchal society, an idea we whole-heartedly support, and in the same piece promote an idea that is the exact opposite of matriarchy. Homosexuality is the enemy of matriarchy. Matriarchy is an age old African tradition that exited tens of thousands of years ago, while homosexuality is a post-modern, Western inspired, political ideology that seeks to extend hegemony. Homosexuality, as a political ideology, cannot be coherent with matriarchy.
Secondly, should it be that Skinner’s gaze is less ‘progressive’ and that his aim is for a more just society we will argue, again, that social justice cannot be led by an agenda that promotes the private practices of some. What about racism, classism, poverty, colonialism, militarism, war, religious bigotry, the environment, hunger and more. Why are we to be led by an insidious agenda concocted by an establishment which has lost its way but is content to use our gay brothers and sisters in a campaign to impose a private lifestyle choice on the masses. This can never be and we should all resist this wicked agenda. An imperialist bandwagon which Skinner’s usually good judgement would have long recognize.
Thirdly, and so on ……….
Women are ‘wired’ created differently from men, mentally, emotionally, physically, sexually. Before the ‘Fall’ (Genesis) they were perfectly matched by Almighty God, to ‘Compliment’ each other in perfect harmony.
But, after the ‘Curse’ upon them from their willfully ‘Chosen’ path of disobedience, rather then ‘Compliment’ each others different roles, they quite naturally, became convergent ‘Competitors’ antagonists to each other, and ‘Ego’ PRIDE now ruled in their respective ‘Sin’ stained hearts.
Women DO NOT think or reason like men, they are driven by totally different emotions, reasons, etc, etc.
In today’s ‘Secular’ materialistically DRIVEN world, with all of its attendant stress factors pressing down on all of us, with Men in their own ‘Crisis’ and Women in theirs, outside of a deep understanding’ of the vast differences between men and women, functionally, that is, ‘Mentally, emotionally, physically and biologically, is it any wonder that relationships are in Crisis?
The majority of ‘unions’ married of ‘common’ law, are under stress, even if there is NO physical abuse.
Because we are NOT functioning properly, we are ALL out of order, either to a greater or lessor extent, we are ALL dysfunctional.
Both sides of this problem MUST be fully aired, unfortunately MESA has not articulated its true perspective on the men’s side properly, coherently, critically, hence their argument is met with disdain by the likes of Gajada, a FEMINIST whose bent on defending women,s rights is terribly one-sided, as the man is always wrong!
This post is a priceless piece! Well done Willam Skinner!
Pacha I was enjoying your response until the last paragraph….you got to jump in and spoil everything with yuh politcs nuh? Stupes!
ZOE …. go back from whence you came! PUHLEEEZE
You are such an emotional being that Bushie’s imagination is tingling at the possibilities….. LOL
However, your emotional responses to spiritual matters – as good as it feels – is just closing your mind to the very reason that you are alive….
Unless you are SURE that you know everything (or at least as much as Bushie) it may be better to keep an open mind and try to pick sense from what people like Zoe and GP are saying….
The fact is that very shortly, even you will come to appreciate the REALITY and the IMPACT of the spiritual component of our existence on everything that we know and do….
…LOL…you will feel REALLY upset with yourself and with your responses to those who sought to enlighten you…. when that time comes….
How do you explain the FACT that as we become more highly educated, more affluent, more aware, better connected and more financially stable…….our interpersonal relationships are at an all-time LOW…?
…better read Zoe again baby….. 🙂
“How do you explain the FACT that as we become more highly educated, more affluent, more aware, better connected and more financially stable…….our interpersonal relationships are at an all-time LOW…?”
Bushie were interpersonal relationships ever at an all time HIGH? Go read yuh history books yuh ole fart!
“…LOL…you will feel REALLY upset with yourself and with your responses to those who sought to enlighten you…. when that time comes….”
Keep wunna enlightenment to wunna selves. I prefer to seek it myself. All ah wunna are imposters trying to add numbers to yuh books.
You seem to have forgotten that a woman’s customs and institutions also influences the way she thinks and behaviors? Now, it appears as though you have focus a lot of your opinion on her internal forces, negating the external factors which also gives rise to her behavior as well as her thinking.
Come on Islandgal….don’t be like Dompey now…. No one said that relationships were ever at an “all time high” (…well except as inferred by Zoe before your great great great grandmother Eve ate the apple..)
….but would you not have thought that with all the ADVANCEMENTS in physical comforts, health, knowledge etc that we would have seen BETTER relationships rather than WORSE…?
…tells you that there are OTHER factors at play ain’t it…?
….if Zoe got a point ….Zoe got a point…!!!
…what brand pampers do you use?
“My son, pay attention to My wisdom. Lend your ear to My understanding, that you may preserve discretion. And your lips many keep knowledge.”
“For the LIPS of an IMMORAL woman drip honey. And her MOUTH smoother than oil; But in the END she IS* BITTER as WORMWOOD.. SHARP as TWO-EDGED sword. Her feet go down to HELL. Lest you ponder HER path of life. Her WAYS are UNSTABLE. You DO NOT know them.”
REMOVE your way FAR FROM HER. And DO NOT go near the door of HER house.” ( Proverbs 5: 1-8) Emphasis added.
“it is better to dwell in a corner of a housetop, Than in a house shared with a CONTENTIOUS WOMAN. ” (Prov. 25: 24)
…how you know so much about Islandgal?
….She mouth smooth in truth yuh! …and it isn’t WORMWOOD yuh have to worry about…um is the 2X4 pine…..
…or as Mr. ac found out….
It is better to live in the (Arizona) desert, than to live in a house with a miserable woman …LOL Ha Ha
“Discretion will preserve you; understanding will keep you, to deliver you from the way of evil. To deliver you from the IMMORAL WOMAN. From the seductress who FLATTERS with her words. Who forsakes the companion of her youth. And forgets the covenant of her God. For her house leads DOWN to DEATH. And her paths to the DEAD. None who go to HER return. Nor do they regain the paths of life.” (Prov. 2: 11, 16-18).
The leaders of Mesa should write a few pages explaining how to terminate a relationship.
Our societal romantic notion of love forever and “til death do us part” is 99% bullcrap.
When mutual love and respect is gone it is time to separate.
Mia is right. ” men should learn how to take a horn”.
They should also take every legal action available to end the relationship.
I hate to say it but if you have the means get a good lawyer to salvage whatever assets you are legally entitled.
Amused and Robert Ross will gladly take your money ( lol ) but you will be able to move on and make the same mistake again because “all saltfish sweet” and we can’t resist.
And yes our higher level of education has open society yes enabling us to understand appreciate and differentiate social values and human traits that can retard our conscien or move us in a positive direction..woman has been subjected to both and should be a little more tolerant in listening to what their male counterparts instead of throwing out the same old redflags issues of defence
Many relationships are not built mutual respect and any ingredient which defines ‘love’.
I wonder how it is that the majority of the old manuscripts that have survived over the millenia were the ones written by men….coincidentally most of these manuscripts prove conclusively that men are superior than women……something seems very wrong in this.
Vincent you can see why Zoe, Bushie GP Dr Dishonorable and most Bajan men have something in common.
IG246…..you are correct that is why they are slaves to to their favourit manuscript.
islandgal246, April 8, 2014 at 1:28 PM:
“Vincent you can see why Zoe, Bushie GP Dr Dishonorable and most Bajan men have something in common.”
Can’t see that. What I can see is islangal246’s advice to women worldwide who are beaten by men. Here we go:
Leff de rasshole man and don’t even take his calls.
Slow poison dem especially when dem lickrish like Bushtea. He always peckish so give he sumting to peck at.
Keep a pot of boiling water pon de stove at all times.
When he come mekking noise go in de kitchen and put on some oil to boil and pretend yuh going tah cook he food fuh he. Eff he come to hit yuh toss de hot oil pon he face.
Boils up some bush tea a certain bush (call me) would give he a heart attack.
Eff he hit yuh aim yuh foot between he legs and a quick and powerful kick aim at he balls.
Run outta de house and keep running. Start training in long distance running before yuh run outta de house.
Wait till he sleeping and burn de house down wid he in it.
If he is stalking you get some people to fix him for good. Brek he legs!
If you have children with him take them and get help from friends and family. If yuh got some money leff de island and ask for asylum wherever you go.
If your male partner threatens to kill you then it is the woman’s responsibility to eliminate him before he gets a chance to do this to her.
It’s a 10-point plan, like Bushie’s 10-point plan for, er, “governance”.
Wow. Where can the world sign up for both plans?
If the last writer (Ana Hildago) thinks that she could frighten somebody. She must know that some men like ‘dangerous’ women like that, so the reverse may be true. LOL
Somehow i agree with some of Island’s 10 point plan, Christ, you have to protect yourself somehow, particularly when you have dangerous men who lack certain skills like self control, critical thinking.
Men who have jealous and violent streaks learned from their experiences as children most often practice this frightening treatment on the females and children they believe are their possessions, though on a smaller scale, the same applies to some females……it’s quite the vicious cycle.
Jackass bowman aka Ana hildago go fcuk yourself! Up you rass with a piece of glass. Go back to your lousy blogwatch
Oh lawsie Island oh lawsie whu dem do you sweet girl, whu loss…..
Well Well, April 8, 2014 at 2:18 PM:
“Christ, you have to protect yourself somehow, particularly when you have dangerous men who lack certain skills like self control”.
Well Well, May 24, 2013 at 8:57 AM:
“I will not shed a tear when Tel Aviv is finally flattened and wiped off the map”.
Well (and well), at least now we know where Welly stands on matters of grave violence.
islandgal246, April 8, 2014 at 2:40 PM:
“go fcuk yourself! Up you rass with a piece of glass.”
The thread is about violence, and this quoted contribution is particularly telling.
Jackass bowman….you got to be real desperate to come on this blog. What happen? No one reading yours?
Who the fcuk is this Bowman?
This islandgal 246 seem rather violent
example of the females in Bdos ?
Ana Baby…….and i make no goddamn apologies, glad you are following me closely
As i said Ana Baby, follow on…I kinda like the attention and if you have nothing better to do, so much the better.
no wonder the two genders can get alone,,,,,,one wants to murder the other the other wants to poison the other,,,,,,such theories which have been advanced as advice and fully supported by some makes me wonder,,,,,,,,now we know why violence has become a generational cruse,,,,,handed down from one generation to another,,,,,,,
Man was NOT created superior to woman, he was created DIFFERENT, to lead, love, care for his ‘help-met’ her functional difference was meant to ‘Compliment’ him, not inferior to him.
Even in this ‘fallen’ terribly SIN stained world, it can still be some-what workable, IF* both genders were to take the time to understand each others differences, which are essentially ‘functional’ differences,
God did not create women to be Defense Force Soldiers or Police, utter nonsense, nowhere in the OT do you find women going to War, that’a a man’s job!
But, some men have failed miserably in our functional responsability, as fathers and husbands. The mix of this very complicated societal problem is not simply addressed by superficial, shallow, immature, ignorant statements, even as we see and hear from the very reps of NOW!
These kinds of issues are messy and the several players must not forget men are raised by women.”
I’m sorry, but that is simply not true. Men are not raised by women. Men are raised by their ABSENTEE fathers who decided to abandon their families and communities en masse, and leave women to do the job on their own. Yes, an absentee father raises a son – his absence is what makes the son grow into the man that he is, whether good or bad. It is a man’s job to set the example of the type of man that his son should become. Please stop trying to normalize absentee fatherhood and single mothers who are left to pick up the pieces and then expected to create miracles. We are the only people that do this.
Why should Nalita Gajadhar be answering the question of men abusing women? She is not a man. Again, that is what MEN should be addressing. Everyone knows that men don’t really listen to women anyway, you’re probably not even going to read my contribution (lol!). Men listen to OTHER MEN. Men are the ones with the problem that has made the use of physical violence, threats and intimidation against women their only real power. It is Nalita’s and other women’s job to create strategies that will allow women at risk to divest and shield themselves from this dysfunction either permanently or in the interim. Not to fix men. MESA and men’s problems are not being created by Nalita or a matriarchy as you, MESA, and most men in this society would have us believe. They are created by a FAILED PATRIARCHY. There is a difference.
And instead of blaming women as usual, please address the role of the economy in all of this, for which NEITHER men or women are to blame. Yes, men have always abused women, but it is a well-known fact that cases of domestic violence always increase when the male is thrown into economic dire straits. Why is that not being addressed in all of this?
On the subject of equality versus this help meet concept that alot uh de “Christians” dem does bandy about conveniently in the Bible I do recall Deborah the wife of Lapidoth, Judges chapters 4 and 5 was a female judge who led a successful counterattack against the forces of Jabin king of Canaan and his military commander Sisera.
Do not confuse duty, job, role and femininity wid, “I is de boss, CEO, Permanent Secretary, President of the Credit Union so I recently grow balls and you gots to humble youself tuh me pervertion(s) that running rampant bout here
Some of us ole farts, and some younger industrious men, like a woman who will turn concrete by flicking dem wrist.
I however do not fool myself concerning the existence of the hell hath no fury like a woman scorned nor the “I does gi’ you money evey week en dat man senning you text message bout how de pokerts was sweet?
I to am concerned with the “As my chattel, you gots to die” crew
Your response explains the adversarial positions which always shroud this issue.
@Ana Hidalgo April 8, 2014 at 1:41 PM islangal246′s advice to women worldwide who are beaten by men. Here we go:..”
Why do you have trouble with islandgal’s advice? The police, the military, cannot be every place at every time. Sometime a woman has to defend herself against those who would hurt her.
In the U.S. Constitution citizens have the right to bear arms to protect themselves against those who would hurt them
Every government every where in the world has armed police and armed armies.
But the police and the armies cannot come into homes unless invited, and sometime they are too far away.
At times like those a woman has both a right and a responsibility to defend herself against those who would hurt her.
There in NOTHING wrong with violence when used in defence of self.
I am constantly amazed that people expect women to disarm, but nobody calls for counties to disarm.
I’ll disarm when all people everywhere beat their swords (and nuclear weapons( into ploughshares.
Until then I reserve the right to use any means necessary defend myself, and my children.
That’s right Simon……i make absolutely sure i am always locked and loaded, at all times, females are always at risk particularly when they have children.
Simple Simon, April 8, 2014 at 10:28 PM
Here’s a highlight from islandgal246’s advice to abused women world-wide:
“Run outta de house and keep running. Start training in long distance running before yuh run outta de house.”
It’s supposed to be funny. It’s all supposed to be funny. That one is supposed to be the funniest.
Did you laugh? Did you find that funny? Are you amused by the image of a beaten woman spending a lot of time “training in long distance running” before she can run from her abuser? Which bit of that is funny? Is the use of Bajan dialect supposed to make it funny? Is it somehow funnier in dialect than in standard English? Could it even hope to be funny if it were written in standard English?
It’s not funny. None of it is funny, even though all of it is written to amuse. Domestic abuse is not funny. It is not a subject for humour, except to an idiot.
Damned right that abused women should defend themselves. Damned right that the abuse of women should not be taken lightly by a half-wit for the amusement of dimwits.
You following me?
This abuse against our women needs to stop and stop now!. Check Singing Francine over 20 years ago: “Runaway”
Please note that men are’abused’ too
“This abuse against our women needs to stop and stop now!. Check Singing Francine over 20 years ago: “Runaway”
Me are abused too and whatever his motives Mr Boyce needs to be commended for providing a forum for men to air their comments against women as women have a forum to air theirs. The abuse against our men needs to stop too- provocatively, psychologically and physically.