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Mac Fingall
Mac Fingall

Mac Fingallโ€™s column which appears in todayโ€™s press –ย  Abnormal behaviour โ€“ makes for interesting reading. He gets points from BU for daring to state an unequivocal position about a subject which Barbadians remain largely hypocritical.ย  His position on homosexuality and same sex marriage is one which accords with the Caswells and Bush Teas of this world Fingall uses the biological cum physiologicallyย  flavoured with the philosophical and religious argument to good effect given his audience

However, there is the other argument to the homosexuality debate BU raised recently and which Fingall never addressed. No we are not referring to whether the right to be gay is a human rights issue. Doesnโ€™t matter the arguments Barbadians bring to the table, as articulate as they may seem, a heavy dose of pragmatism must be accommodated as well.

There is a financial and economic impact which Barbados will have to wrestle with sooner rather than later. The issue is not whether Barbadians are ready to remove what some believe is an obsolete law from the statute book as it refers to homosexuals. Or whether legislation needs to be affected to safeguard the rights of same sex unions (marriages).

According to Barbados Sexual Offenses Act of 1992, โ€œAny person who commits buggery is guilty of an offense and is liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for life.โ€ The lesser, related charge โ€œserious indecencyโ€ can result in up to 10 years in prison.โ€ The law stands on its own for all those on either side of the argument to form a conclusion to its severity and relevance. The argument that no one has been charged is moot, irrelevant and redundant. The debate is now about the potential threat given the political consideration hitched to gay advocacy.

For Barbados the debate will soon morph to how a little country which depends on the developed countries for economic sustenance can/should maintain its current position by defending the status quo.ย  The emphasis on developed countries is to stress the point that in Canada, United Kingdom and the United States the rights of homosexuals are well on the way to being protected in law. The fact that Barbados and almost all of the English speaking Caribbean are service economies and depend on the UK, US and Canada as source markets shows how important is the economic argument which Fingall omitted in his postulation. Fingall and all like minded are free to hold their positions BUT are they prepared to deal with the repercussions?

The following 76 Countries Where Anti-Gay Laws Are As Bad As Or Worse Than Russiaโ€™s shows that Barbados is on the radar and will be targeted by an influential group. This group will hitch its advocacy on Barbadosโ€™ Sexual Offenses Act. Of interest is a comment posted in the link provided which states, โ€œRihanna, your gay fans in Barbados need some supportโ€. It is only a matter of time before someone asks Rihanna, the Ambassador, to state her position on the issue at hand and it will not matter her response because Barbados will be dragged kicking and screaming onto the global stage.

To Mac Fingall BU asks: Can we afford this sort of publicity? The latest incident anti-gay incident last week does not help the our cause..


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159 responses to “The Homosexuality Debate Absent Pragmatism”


  1. MILLER
    But for the benefit of the BU souls looking for guidance could you please on the behalf of Zoe say whether or not Bishop Dr. Holder and his flock of Anglicans are โ€œrealโ€ Christians but not in the mould of Tutu and Pope Francis?
    ======================================
    ZOE HAS RESPONDED TO YOU CORRECTLY ON THIS MATTER

    I WAS SPRINKLED IN WHAT IS NOW THE RC CATHEDRAL ON BAY ST AS A BABY. AND I BECAME A CONFIRMED SINNER 10 YEARS LATER. I WAS AN ANGLICAN OF THE ANGLICANS, AND I WAS MARKED OF BY THEN RECTOR OF CH CH TO BE A PRIEST BECAUSE OF MY ZEAL.

    HOWEVER IN 1968 I WAS CONFRONTED WITH WHAT THE WORD OF GOD TEACHES AND HAVE SOUGHT TO BE GUIDED BY THE BIBLE SINCE THEN.

    IN THE NT BAPTISM IS ALWAYS BY IMMERSION- NOT SPRINKLING, AND ALWAYS FOLLOWS CONVERSION. C.F PHILIP AND THE ETHIOPIAN EUNUCH IN ACTS.

    THERE IS NO ORDINANCE OF THE NT CHURCH CALLED CONFIRMATION, AS TAUGHT IN THE BIBLE.

  2. St George's Dragon Avatar
    St George’s Dragon

    In the medieval period it is suggested that they used to have arguments about arcane religious things such as how many angels could stand on the head of a pin. I thought that was funny when I first heard about it. I have stopped laughing now I realise the same type of debate still continues.

  3. St George's Dragon Avatar
    St George’s Dragon

    Now I have worked out why the Archbishop of Canterbury is here in Barbados.
    Two weeks ago, after the “Same Sex Marriage Act” was passed in the UK he was quoted as saying:
    “I spoke against it and voted against it but I listened and I heard the roar of revolution. It came not merely from those one would expect but from every side of the house, Conservatives, Liberals and Labour, of every age and sex. Those of us against the act were utterly crushed in the voting again, and again, and again.”
    The Church was, as ever, behind public opinion on this.
    Perhaps the Archbishop feels more comfortable in a country where people’s rights are not respected.
    Anyway, he is not a proper Christian, apparently, so what would he know about anything.


  4. Zoe and GP What about Acts 16:23?

    Short reply please.


  5. @ Well Well. | August 12, 2013 at 11:32 AM | โ€œ.i donโ€™t see why the authorities in Bim cannot see where the problems lieโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆ..decriminalize it for consenting adults and leave the other laws related to rape, assault, etc, etc, intact, or take the backlash like a man.โ€

    It is not the authorities in Bim that will be taking the backlash. It is the poor man in the street. The authorities will make sure they get the choicest bits from an ever-diminishing trough, as always, and it is the rest of us that will suffer โ€“ not only in economic terms, but in terms of national status in the international community. And just because a few closet cases like Bushie and Casewell want to legislate (or rather keep legislation) on what two consulting adults do in the privacy of their own homes. And worse, they do not want to recognise the rights of couples who, having worked together their whole lives, want to see their worldly goods go to each other, rather than to relatives who have not in any way enhanced their lives, but who have the status of โ€œheirs-at-lawโ€. Worst of all, they would deny children the right to be raised in a loving and secure environment and are perfectly prepared to hand them over to couples some of whom will abuse them mentally, physically and SEXUALLY (as has happened too many times in the past) on the sole basis that these couples are HETEROSEXUAL (or appear to be). They would also choose to ignore (and have everyone else ignore) the large body of research that states that children raised by same-sex parents are no more likely than any other children to be gay themselves โ€“ and the reason they want you to ignore that is because children raised by same-sex parents have a total acceptance of same-sex relationships, even if (as is the majority case) they are heterosexual themselves โ€“ in other words, they display the greater tolerance and TRUE Christian outlook that it has taken some of us (those of us who can think) all our adult lives to arrive at.

    @Miller. Good stuff.

    @ac. I repeat โ€“ EXCELLENT!! Pay no attention to Bushie. He is outclassed by you and he knows it.


  6. @GP and Zoe

    Whether use of ‘immersion’ or ‘sprinkling’ in the baptism process, isn’t this a largely symbolic act?


  7. following in the steps of TUTU and the POPE the PM in his infinite wisdom underscore and expanded on the principles of christians telling even though it is important to stand firm of what is moral, it is also reasonable to understand that peoples right is a part of being a christian, i do applauded the PM for the first time opening the door ever so softly and using the movement of tip toe to gently glide and navigate this delicate issue


  8. btw bushie i am not gay neither do i have any friends who are , however i am a realist and understand that even though bibilical teachings are important to life that they are also other core principals that should guide us and which we should apply in life when it comes to dealing with each other as individuals,no one person is more deserving of a right to the pursuit of happiness than the other afterall we were as the bible said Made in the image of GoD. also that we are ALL God”s children. WE should not only say those words while going about our daily business but act upon them with greater significant and demonstratively treating each others as equal, Listen ac do understand the church’s reponse and surely do empathise as well as sympathise with them as they find themnselves in conflict with medevial law and teachings and with realityand being pulled into the grasp of a “human rights” issue” one that must be dealt with ‘In the NOW’. However i would say to the church hold on to Your Values but also remember that at the end of the day WE ALL ARE GOD’S CHILDREN and should be treated as ONE. .


  9. BU has listen read all the arguments over the years and can understand the Christian view which frowns on institutionalizating homosexuality.Christians cannot be ridiculed for following the doctrines of its faith. Which makes the fragmentation in Christendom all the more confusing. However if we accept that there is suppose to be separation between Church and TState then it seems logical the our laws should treat to ALL humans as one.

    On 13 August 2013 09:30, Barbados Underground

  10. Rosemary Parkinson Avatar
    Rosemary Parkinson

    …and are negatively obsessed with homosexuality???? Give me a break!

    http://www.nationnews.com/articles/view/doctor-charged-with-indecent-assault/

  11. Caswell Franklyn Avatar
    Caswell Franklyn

    Amused

    You protest too much. You bisexual people here on BU are only pretending. If I were you I would stick to one sex and you would not be writing such crap. Don’t you realise if buggery were decriminalise your gay friend would insist on you leaving your real wife and come out. This debate is not in your sordid interest.


  12. @. Candid…That was the claim made by”Just Asking”.All I sought to do was expose the obvious illogic in such a ridiculous claim.


  13. the problem with christain teaching is when they mix OT law with NT teachings. Christ tried his best to get the teachers and writers of those laws to understand those laws were a hindrance and impossible to keep. he thus demonstrated by. making himself an example by breaking one of the highest laws regarding the sabbath. churches need to get back to the basics teachings of CHRIST for it was upon those LAWS the new church was formed Laws that are inclusive.

  14. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ ac | August 13, 2013 at 5:30 AM |
    “Listen ac do understand the churchโ€™s reponse and surely do empathise as well as sympathise with them as they find themnselves in conflict with medevial law and teachings and with realityand being pulled into the grasp of a โ€œhuman rightsโ€ issueโ€ one that must be dealt with โ€˜In the NOWโ€™. However i would say to the church hold on to Your Values but also remember that at the end of the day WE ALL ARE GODโ€™S CHILDREN and should be treated as ONE. ”

    What you have said here (in a unique moment of enlightenment where your apogee with commonsense and the millerโ€™s perihelion to the Sun of Wisdom appears to conjunct) is at the core of the debate.
    No one here on BU advocating the rights of the homosexual or any other minority like the disabled is “Demanding” that the Church change its policy of accepting gays into their congregation in any marriage or union to be sanctioned by the Church.

    What rational thinking people ought to be against is the Church’s strong demands almost arm twisting influence to force the State NOT to remove laws that discriminate or perceived as discriminating against a minority group in society.
    We must remember that Barbados and other Western societies are not theocratic states ruled by religious bigots and hypocrites as in Iran and Saudi Arabia.

    The Church in Barbados has always been playing catch up with social changes that reflect modern enlightened values promoting human rights. Except for a very few enlightened voices in the same Church like Sarah Ann Gill it has always been Against social advancement reflecting human rights such as the abolition of slavery and acceptance of blacks and women in the hierarchy of that and wider social organizations.

    By all means let the Church contribute to the debate and the wider democratic process but please donโ€™t allow it to dominate to determine the laws of this land. Its past is too sullied with immorality for it to be treated as a beacon of what is good for society.

    Their energies and resources would be better spent if they (the Church body) come together and โ€˜fight the degrading state of so-called family values and life in the local society riddled with all kinds of promiscuity, sexual depravity and drug addiction to a trade that although illegal is religiously consumed.
    How can the Church explain a situation where over 70 % of children are born out of wedlock; many of them to their own religiously stricken members?

    Like ac let the miller would make a disclaimer here.
    We are at a loss to understand why homosexual people, both men and women, would want to get married in a church or some other shop peddling different brands of mind-altering dope.

    However, we can see how -like black people socially fashioned in and determined to distance themselves from a slavery-based social system- the drive in those who want to be accepted as part of group seeking some form religious guidance in their lives can be overpowering.
    But as a person who is proud to be a libertine and fighter for the rights of minorities and other disadvantaged groups and ultimately for freedom of expression in a democratic society I the miller have no compunction whatsoever in associating with homosexuals in their fight to have all discriminatory laws removed from the Statute books.
    Let the moral majority and other bigoted interest groups practice their misplaced backward discrimination in private but certainly not in the public space or social market place.
    They will have to answer to their own conscience, conflicting teachings of love an ultimately to their make believe god.

    You are entitled to call the miller as many homophobic names under the Sun and even condemn him as an atheist just because he has a different spiritual perspective and intellectual capacity from you homophobes still trapped in a cocoon of an insular mindset of pre-Victorian discriminatory mores.
    Thank God (pun definitely intended) he has managed to pupate into a caring, flexibly accepting and more enlightened being towards his fellow human beings.


  15. @ Hamilton hill | August 13, 2013 at 7:26 AM |

    I overlooked that the comment was initially made by another participant. I apologize.


  16. David | August 13, 2013 at 4:37 AM |
    @GP and Zoe

    Whether use of โ€˜immersionโ€™ or โ€˜sprinklingโ€™ in the baptism process, isnโ€™t this a largely symbolic act?
    YES DAVID BAPTISM IS SYMBOLIC BUT AS TAUGHT IN THE NT IT RELATES TO A PERSON ACKNOWLEGING THAT HE HAS ACCEPTED THE THE DEATH , BURIAL AND RESURRECTION OF CHRIST, WHICH CONCEPTS CONSTITUTES THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO 1 CO 15:-1-3

    A BABY CAN NOT ACCEPT THE THE DEATH , BURIAL AND RESURRECTION OF CHRIST

    BAPTISM IS FOR BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS.
    THATS WHY THOSE WHO PRACTICED WATER BAPTISM OF ADULTS WERE ONCE CALLED ANABAPTISTS


  17. @millertheanunnaki | August 13, 2013 at 7:53 AM | Miller. Excellent. Just excellent. And I have the strong suspicion that you are not gay, just (like myself I hope) a human person who, whether he believes in Him or not, simply follows the teachings of Christ as they actually are and not as they have been corrupted by the religious zealots. I am, to quote you, humbled by your submission.

    Which will explain why I do not think Casewell’s comment ought to be dignified with any sort of response.


  18. However the Church is misguided in their belief tha god would condemned to hell of fire and brimstone. A god that says LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOUR as YOU WOULD LOVE YOURSELF . not a contracdiction or a misstatement on God,s part but a confirmation the such laws are inherintfrom time of birth and are in agreement with the LAWS of nature.


  19. @ Miller
    What rational thinking people ought to be against is the Churchโ€™s strong demands almost arm twisting influence to force the State NOT to remove laws that discriminate or perceived as discriminating against a minority group in society.
    ***************
    SERIOUSLY NOW MILLER…
    You are talking more and more shiite as you delve deeper and deeper into this bulling quagmire.

    The law of which you speak discriminates ONLY against persons indulging in a gross UNHYGIENIC practice of playing around in each others shit.
    It has NOTHING to do with who they love, want to marry or indeed what they call themselves.

    We have laws which ALSO discriminate against “minority groups” who feel that they should steal, Curse in public, even have normal sex in public.
    We have laws which prevent you from selling food if not in possession of a health certificate……
    Laws against stooling in public and against not having proper facilities to dispose of stool…..

    Shite man….these are laws AGAINST NASTINESS.

    YOU ARE TALKING SHIITE OF THE ac quality. …and the fact that Amused agrees so enthusiastically with you speaks volumes about him and his rationality (Bushie looking for a new – hopefully more rational- lawyer).

    How the hell can ANY normal rational person be arguing for changes in the law to allow for nastiness…just to appease some freaks who find themselves stricken with the desire to play with excreta…?

    …so if enough thieves get together and argue that they were born that way…should we change the law against stealing too….?

    SHAME on Miller and Amused
    ….ac is excused.


  20. It was male and female who entered the Ark.I always hear about Adam and Eve. Surely not Adam and Steve.


  21. Amused……..while they are stuck on peeping into the bedroom of consenting adults in true voyeuristic style…….the world is moving rapidly into another phase. Their time would be better spent advocating that the young defenseless, vulnerable children in the society no longer continue to be victims of pedophilia that has been doing great damage to their emotional psyche for decades on end in Barbados and the Caribbean.


  22. @GP

    Thanks, understood.


  23. U bush TEA need to excuse yourself frrom the debate cause the more u open your mouth the more your shite thinks. how can any rationale person agrees far less inderstand your reasoning on this topic when all you bring to the table is shit talk over and over again. man the question is how does society give The HOMOSEXUAL, รLL the same equal rights as the HETEROSEXUAL .all this crap talk coming from ur mouth is wearing thin. go back to drawing board and think hard and come up with a sensible answer. Jackass


  24. @ Tell Me Why

    My comment was clearly too high for you!

  25. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Bush Tea | August 13, 2013 at 10:53 AM |

    Comically though Bushie, if we were to take you seriously we might just have to come to the conclusion that you are no more than an intellectual schizophrenic.
    Itโ€™s a good thing your PM does not side with your outlandish thinking.

    But for argument sake let us go along with your little scenario of having a law against every activity not perceived as โ€˜normalโ€™ even if not posing a threat to public health.
    Suppose the law makers had gone along with the voting majority or those who mattered in the society at the time and not stood up against the institution of slavery where would you Bushie be today? Still playing the role of lieutenant to the likes of Harriet Tubman?
    Remember the apartheid legal system in South Africa and Jim Crow laws in the Southern United States were once well entrenched, defended to the teeth by the majority who mattered and written in legal stone like the ten commandments.

    Social laws (unlike the laws of nature like gravity) are meant for man at a particular point of social evolution; not man for these laws.
    The mere fact you can juxtapose laws required to protect the health of the public like the preparation, storage and serving of food to that of a private sexual act between two consenting adults it only shows how deep you have fallen into a shallow intellectual quagmire of myopic insular confining ignorance.

    Suppose two lesbians where โ€œno shiteโ€ is involved (according to your description of the act of homosexuality) want to get married would you object to such a legal arrangement? Suppose two homosexuals males made a solemn pledge not to practice anal penetrative sex but just masturbation to their own mutual satisfaction (no dirty shitty sex involved) would you object to such a legally recognized union based on โ€˜agapeโ€™ love and mutual affection?

    Should one of your sons or daughters come out of the closet and reveal to you, Daddy still hiding in the Bush, that he or she is sexually attracted to their own sex what would you do?
    Reject that child whose only fault might just be that of carrying a possible defective gene inherited from their macho speaking closet hiding sweet daddy?

    And last but not least, Bushman, if you accept that marriage should be based on Love and NOT sex or material acquisitions why then are you discriminating against people who might just find themselves in love in whatever triple permutation of โ€œdualโ€ combination there maybe?

    But on the other hand you see nothing wrong with the wisest man (perfectly made by your BBE) having 700 wives and 300 outside women called concubines.
    We will not even go into your possible objection of marriage between people from different racial, cultural or religious origins far less asking you if you think disabled people should be married since that is the mindset of the man before us not in judgment but in pity.


  26. Written by Dr. Adrian Charles…I think this answer to Mac Fingal’s very unfortunate column is worthy of finding itself wherever that article has been…in strange places, no doubt! It (a) tells the real truth very dispassionately (b) is probably the first medical doctor interested enough in ensuring that we understand the truth and nothing but the truth.

    Reconsidering “Abnormal Behaviour”
    August 12, 2013 at 6:24pm

    Though I am not a specialist in sexual health, I was moved to write this in response to a column written by Mac Fingall, and published in the Nation Newspaper: http://www.nationnews.com/articles/view/abnormal-behaviour/

    In his column, Mr. Fingall said that he would not address the issue of homosexuality’s morality. Instead, he chose to focus on physical and practical issues surrounding same-sex partnership.

    Unfortunately, many of his claims were drastically misinformed.

    To summarise some of his claims:
    – Discussion of same-sex marriage, “if allowed to dominate”, “could spell the end of the world”;
    – Homosexual sex cannot be seen as normal, because that’s not the way the body was designed;
    – Probing and “invasion” of the anus results in damage, incontinence, and the need for the individual to wear diapers;
    – HIV is caused by faeces getting into the bloodstream, resulting in AIDS;
    – AIDS is a punishment for going against the natural wishes of God;
    – The vagina is perfectly placed for pleasure;
    – Being raised by a gay couple is “sure to overpower” a child, resulting in “unnatural behaviour”.

    Spoiler alert: these are all false claims. Every one.

    I staunchly support the right of Christians to live by Biblical purity laws if they see fitโ€” abstaining from Biblical “abominations” or taboos, including the eating of shrimp and pork; physical contact with menstruating women; and homosexual sex.

    I have absolutely no quarrel with Christians’ disapproving of various sexual practices based on their reading of scripture.

    That said, I do think it important to defend homosexual people against mistreatment on the basis of their sexual orientation; and I think it crucially important for us all to recognise and correct false statements where they occur.

    Biblical law can stand on its own; it does not need mistruths to justify it.

    So, let’s examine the listed claims.

    Homosexual sex has been prominent or dominant in various societies over the centuries; it’s not a new invention. At no point has the population ever been in any danger of dying out due to homosexuality. Ancient Greek civilisation was famous/ infamous for its mainstreaming of man-boy sexual practices that would be abhorrent to most modern people; their civilisation flourished, and continues to this day. If we think about it, homosexual sex would only usher in the end of humanity if it was both contagious, and made people infertile. Neither is true. “Gayness” isn’t catching; and gay people can and do have children, so extinction is not a danger that we face from this issue.

    Homosexual behaviour may be immoral for some, but it is a minority variant of normal, found in many animal species. If we really restricted ourselves to behaviours that the body seems “designed” for, we would have to abandon sitting in chairs, driving, the use of spectacles, and television. If we define “normality” as excluding unusual minorities, then blue eyes and left-handedness would fail to make the grade. Any non-moral definition of normality that excludes homosexuality quickly becomes obviously silly if we turn that same metric in the direction of other common human behaviours and characteristics. To me, that would seem to make such a classification practically useless!

    Violent sexual damage to the anus can cause all kinds of problems, it is true; but, as far as I know, ordinary anal intercourse does not. Sphincters are muscle, not elastic bands. Stretch doesn’t turn muscle into wobbly goo; if it did, yoga (or pre-exercise stretching) would be a terrifying event! Besidesโ€” shall we really judge all homosexual sex on that basis? What if we were to turn that same lens on heterosexual sex? Shall we judge ordinary man-woman relationships on the basis of the results of ultraviolent heterosexual rape, or other extreme heterosexual acts? Over the years as a doctor, I have seen no shortage of women with damaged wombs and bladders as a result of birth injuries in previous generations; but none of my gay patients over the years have had to wear diapers because of sexual injuries due to ordinary anal intercourse. None.

    HIV is not spread by faeces. It’s spread by a virus. Contact with faeces is not necessary for disease transmission.

    HIV can be transmitted by (partial list):

    – anal sex

    – penile-vaginal sex

    – breast milk

    – blood transfusions with unsafe blood

    – sharing needles for drug use.

    Different modes of transmission are common in different parts of the world. It’s not a “gay disease”, and it’s not a divine punishment meted out to gay people. Straight people get HIV. Innocent people get HIV. Newborn infants get HIV.

    As many women could tell you, the vagina is not necessarily perfectly placed for pleasure. In fact, 70% of women cannot reach climax without additional genital stimulation during intercourse, because the vagina is imperfectly placed for their pleasure. That shouldn’t matter; we can easily give things a “helping hand”, so to speak. But, according to Mr. Fingall’s logic, that would be unnatural and abnormal, because it isn’t in keeping with the body’s “design”. By Mr. Fingall’s logic, 70% of women should be denied optimal marital satisfaction based on an obsolete, excessively-narrow view of normality.

    Finally, with respect to gay adoption: sexual orientation is not a switch easily flipped by environment. If it were, then surely straight people would never have gay kids, and homosexuality would have died out? This issue has been thoroughly studied in multiple countries, and being raised by a homosexual couple does not result in problem behaviour for children. Further, being raised by a gay couple is much, much better for children than being raised in an orphanage, which is what many children currently face. Being raised in institutions is demonstrably very bad for children. If all suitable children currently in orphanages were placed with stable, committed gay couples tomorrow, they’d be much, much better off than they are now.

    In the end, none of these points should be expected to persuade someone who believes on religious grounds that homosexual sex is wrong. That said, I feel strongly that we should avoid supporting our beliefs with falsehoods. A scripturally-based belief should be proclaimed proudly as such, with no trumped-up, incorrect falsehoods used to prop it up; and secular folks should have accurate information available to them, to inform secular laws and policies.

    Believe what you will morally, but let your facts be accurate.


  27. Rosemary…………thank you very much, and also to Adrian who is a fantastic individual, well informed physician and a totally rational intellectually gifted bajan. The voyeurs are making the education system in Bim look really bad.

  28. Caswell Franklyn Avatar
    Caswell Franklyn

    Miller

    While trying to make light of Bushie’s comments, you are confusing yourself.

    There must be evidence to convict someone of the crime of buggery (bulling). If the act is done by two consenting, but dirty, adults in the privacy of their bedroom, who will provide the evidence, since I suppose only two of them will be there at the time. Neither one could inform the police because he would be also be admitting to the commission of a crime. Lets suppose one turns state evidence and the partner denies the act, it would be one’s word against the other unless the cock goes to the lab and have them harvest the DNA from the faeces remaining on his penis.

    If two men decide to get married and remain celebrate there is no marriage, since there must be sexual act (penetration)to consummate the marriage. For that reason two women cannot be married because they cannot achieve penetration, those teflon strap-ons would not suffice for penetration.


  29. @Well Well

    We need to thank Dr. Adrian Charles totally, I just posted with his permission of course…bless his heart and of course his fine knowledge – for this is EVERYTHING. Knowledge. Fearing life without knowledge does not make sense. Knowledge is what will guide us to understanding so much and perhaps then we will not ‘fear’ so much.

    I keep repeating this but it does good for me to be reminded. My father always told me: “Informate es tu deber”. Informing yourself is your given duty. I try to do this.


  30. Rosemary……..Adrian is good people, what bothers me about the debate is that there are those who are not looking at it in a pragmatic way, they are more focused on being descriptive about the way the sex act is performed between two consulting adults rather than the ramifications involved in being closed minded. Some are only seeing in from the point of view of 166 square miles and no more. If they would only cease and desist from visualizing the sex act itself (voyeurism) and focus on the problems that they will very shortly be confronted with as a spin off and fallout of being narrow-minded, they would see themselves making progress.


  31. @Well Well. Well said.

    @Miller. Agree. Just ignore Lassie Franklyn. He has chest hair instead of a brain. He isn’t anywhere near up to your weight. But you know that.

    @Rosemary. Most interesting. Thanks also to Dr Charles. You would think that GP would have sufficient medical knowledge to know that Dr Charles is right. All I can say is thank God I don’t live in Ottawa.

    @ac. Excellent – pay no attention to Bushie and Casewell – they are being totally outclassed by you and now feel that they have to do their very poor best to be offensive. Ignore them.


  32. Rosemary posting what she is told by reading or otherwise
    cannot prove Fingall wrong
    your word against his
    so boo you Rose
    bo you hoo ; boo hoo you
    you swallower of whatever you are told
    or sold
    hot cold
    or 9 days old


  33. @ AMUSED
    RE You would think that GP would have sufficient medical knowledge to know that Dr Charles is right.

    You would think?
    DID I AT ANYTIME ENDORSE WHAT FINGALL SAID?
    HAVE YOU SEEN ME EMBROILED IN THIS SILLY ARGUEMENT
    I BELIEVE WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS AND TRY TO FOLLOW THAT
    I DONT GET INVOLVED WITH THE PHIOSOPHIES OF MEN.


  34. @ Caswell
    If Miller and his clan want to endorse homosexuality no one is stopping them. But when they continue to abuse and accuse us normal humans for our insistence that this lifestyle is “ABNORMAL”, and to seek to railroad us into converting to their nasty fetish, Bushie will be undetered.

    They can bring which ever doctor they wish, to give what ever facts he or she may want to promote…. IT DOES NOT MAKE WRONG THINGS RIGHT. (How does the Doc know which patients are gay….?)

    Bushie could not care less if bulling made you fit, healthy, happy or gay, IT IS ABNORMAL, it is WRONG and it is nasty.
    Most importantly, if is contrary to spiritual laws and carries dire consequences.

    Miller talks about “having a law against every activity not perceived as โ€˜normalโ€™ even if not posing a threat to public health.” …..
    How many things pose a larger threat to public health than playing around in stool?
    Is Miller aware that modern toilets are responsible for the remarkable reduction in dyarreal and other diseases globally? …in other words, THE REDUCTION IN PEOPLE INTERACTING WITH STOOL has improved global health.

    There is no law here against homosexuality, only against dabbling in doo doo. Why should a government change that?

    Even if Bushie or Bushie’s son or daughter were homosexual, IT DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACTS…… Wrong is Wrong.
    just as it would not change things if Bushie was unlucky to be born with some physical deformity. It would be arrogant to expect society to redefine “normal” to include Bushie’s abnormality.

    Miller is now sounding more and more like ac….. LOL …that says all that we need to say about his logic ….


  35. Ch just made a ‘test’ comment

  36. just want to know Avatar
    just want to know

    I don’t feel any government should interfere in any one’s bedroom activities, whether lesbian, homosexual or heterosexual. These are all individual preferences. This whole thing with the the gay society is that they want to say they are normal in their sexual activity,& they are not, if by any chance it was a normal activity they would not go to such length to legalise this activity. I agree with Mac, he hit the nail right on it’s head.


  37. bushie go crawl back under your shitty rock .stuepse…….nobody care about ur ugly digusting mouthings about shit talk. guh long do. but uh didn”t answer miller probing about King Solomon and his 400hundred wives and 300 hundred concubines…..i bet that kind a shite goes well wid you,cause when it comes to men treating woman like meat that kind a shite don;t bother yuh, in todays society King SOLOMON would be called a DAWG,

  38. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Bush Tea | August 13, 2013 at 5:45 PM |

    This is my last comment to you on this matter. I leave to the goodly doctor. You look up to people like that so do your subservient idolizing at the font of medical knowledge and like the words of a priest in true myopic Bajan fashion you dare not question.

    It seems you have a real unhealthy fascination with shit, shite, stool, faeces, poo, jobby call it what you want, Bushie. Why it that Bush Tea? Are you in anyway afflicted with bad experiences from your childhood playing in shit or accidentally fell into a pit toilet?

    Why can’t you see the whole homosexual debate in a wider intellectual setting? Why this narrow anus focused response?
    Why not assume that the lesbian community is making a case for equal recognition before the law as far as the marriage thing is concerned? Why must you always see it through the hole of a bottom and a prick of two men?

    Until you widen your framework and see the issue from a human rights perspective just like any other minority group in an enlightened modern democratic society you would always look like one lefthander for an asshole just focused on emitting waste of from your intellectually tainted discriminating bowels.

    The miller has not been wrong regarding this DLP administration reneging on its commitment to continuing free tertiary education at the UWI and he feels rather comfortable in his assessment of your hang-ups about a minority group you seem rather involved with.
    Why are you hiding from yourself? Maybe a psychiatrist could come on BU and do some psychoanalysis to help you on the road to acceptance of the real Bushie.

    I am off. Check the miller over on the Budget Debate thread, ya hear my loving homo-hater from sweet bottom


  39. @Yagga Ragga whatever.
    Cheers.
    Ignorance is obviously bliss. Go smoke another spliff.
    Do not boohoo what you cannot find untrue.
    Shock the world. Read a book. Take a real look.
    I am me. You are you.
    There is no attack on my side. But then I do not glide. I know my hide.
    And it is not in the closet of kings pretending to be or not to be.
    May love conquer your sad soul before you get far too old.
    And may the mirror of life not shock you into strife
    ..,,,that just might might cut you like a knife.
    Bless.


  40. Miller……………Bushie can go see Dr. Charles, he is very good with psychiatric patience as well.


  41. That can also read:

    psychiatric patients.


  42. millertheanunnaki | August 13, 2013 at 7:39 PM |
    @ Bush Tea | August 13, 2013 at 5:45 PM |

    It seems you have a real unhealthy fascination with shit, shite, stool, faeces, poo, jobby call it what you want, Bushie. Why it that Bush Tea? Are you in anyway afflicted with bad experiences from your childhood playing in shit or accidentally fell into a pit toilet?
    ………………………………………………………………………………………………….LOL
    can you please answer that question LOL HA HA
    seems like all of the above to ac HA ! HA!


  43. @ Georgie

    “… HAVE YOU SEEN ME EMBROILED IN THIS SILLY ARGUEMENT… ”

    That is arguable the most intelligent comment on this thread, to date …! Dr. Adrian Charles is of course a welcomed addition but frankly I believe a psychiatrist to certify some of these long standing Jack Asses would be a better choice…! HA HA HA ๐Ÿ™‚


  44. @Georgie Porgie | August 13, 2013 at 5:04 PM |

    โ€œDID I AT ANYTIME ENDORSE WHAT FINGALL SAID?โ€ By inference, YES!

    โ€œHAVE YOU SEEN ME EMBROILED IN THIS SILLY ARGUEMENTโ€ Yes!

    โ€œI BELIEVE WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS AND TRY TO FOLLOW THATโ€. And that is? Does the fact that both Desmond Tutu and the Pope disagree with you, tell you anything?

    โ€œI DONT GET INVOLVED WITH THE PHIOSOPHIES OF MEN.โ€ Nor, apparently, with up-to-date medical research and findings. Are you going to offer an opinion that contradicts that of Dr Charles? We are excitedly expectant and agog.


  45. Amused | August 14, 2013 at 2:31 AM |
    @Georgie Porgie | August 13, 2013 at 5:04 PM |

    โ€œDID I AT ANYTIME ENDORSE WHAT FINGALL SAID?โ€ By inference, YES!

    up to now i have not read what fingall said BECAUSE i dont take him serious

    nothing that dr charles says is up-to-date medical research and findings. IT IS NOITHING NEW.

    i dont think it necessary to repeat or endorse what he says to please you or anyone

    who ever want to bull and wick can bull and wick, but there is the BIBLE’S ruling on this matter and eventually THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT.

    Does the fact that both Desmond Tutu and the Pope disagree with you, tell you anything? YES. THAT THEY DONT UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE AND ARE NOT GUIDED THEREBY. THE WORD OF GOD IS SIMPLE AND VERY CLEAR ON THIS MATTER. ANY ASS THAT CAN READ CAN SEE THAT.

    Desmond Tutu and the Pope ARE NO BODY IN MY ESTIMATION. I AM NOT GUIDED BY THESE SO CALLED PHILOSOPHERS

    THE BIBLE IS MY GUIDE FOR FAITH AND PRACTICE NOT UNGODLY MEN PROMOTED BY OTHER UNGODLY MEN

    JUDE 14 AND 15 SPEAKS ABOUT THE FATE OF SUCH
    14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

    15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.


  46. GP said:
    “THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT.”
    ____________________________________________

    GP……………………..just asking, why does the throne judgment have to be white??? any particular reason?


  47. DONT KNOW WELL WELL
    THAT IS JUST HOW IT IS DESCRIBED IN REV 20
    โ€œTHE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT.โ€ IS CONTRASTED WITH THE BEEMA OR JUDGEMENT SEAT OF CHRIST


  48. Colors
    In apocalyptic literature, color plays an important role in conveying symbolic meanings. For example, the colors blue, purple, and scarlet played prominent roles in the building of the wilderness tabernacle (Exodus 26:1; 27;16; 28:6). In Numbers 15:37-38, “The LORD spake unto Moses, saying, ‘Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue’.” The woman that John sees in the wilderness, however, sits on a scarlet beast and only wears purple and scarlet (Revelation 17:3-4) while the color blue is noticeably absent. Here purple and scarlet suggest that the woman has become affluent through evil means and not by the blessing of the Lord.

    Below is a list of all the colors mentioned in the Bible with both their references and their meanings.

    Color Meaning
    Amber Symbolizes the Glory of God

    Black One of the more commonly used colors in the Bible; describes the color of the middle of the night (Proverbs 7:9); diseased skin (Job 30:30); healthy hair (Song of Solomon 5:11; Matthew 5:36); corpes’ faces (Lamentations 4:8); the sky (Jeremiah 4:28); the darkening of the sun and the moon (Joel 2:10); horses (Zechariah 6:2; Revelation 6:5); and marble (Esther 1:6).

    The color black symbolizes sin, death, and famine.

    Blue Used to describe the color of a wound, but may refer to the wound itself (Proverbs 20:30). It also describes the sky, Heaven, and the Holy Spirit.

    Brown A dark, blackish color referred only to sheep (Genesis 30:32-33, 35, 40).

    Crimson Crimson linen was used in the temple (II Chronicles 2:7, 14, 3:14); the color must have been indelible or permanet (Jeremiah 4:30), as crimson is used figuratively as sin. (Isaiah 1:18).

    Often refers to blood atonement and sacrifice.

    Gold As gold is the highest, most precious metal, so the divine nature is the highest nature, the only nature having immortality (Exodus 28:36; Psalm 21:3).

    Gray Used only to describe the hair of the elderly (Genesis 42:38)
    Green Normally describes vegetation; used of pastures (Psalm 23:2); herbage (II Kings 19:26); trees in general (Deuteronomy 12:2; Luke 23:31; Revelation 8:7); the marriage bed (in a figurative sense, Song of Solomon 1:16); a hypocrite compared to a papyrus plant (Job 8:16); and grass (Mark 6:39). A word meaning “greenish” describes plague spots (Leviticus 13:49, 14:37) as well as the color of gold.

    Most often associated with the meaning of growth.

    Purple The most precious of ancient dyes made from a shellfish found in the Mediterranean Sea. A total of 250,000 mollusks was required to make one ounce of the dye, which partly accounts for its great price. It was highly valued within the nation of Israel.

    Used in several features of the tabernacle (Exodus 26:1, 27:16) and the temple (II Chronicles 2:14); the color of royal robes (Judges 8:26); the garments of the wealthy (Proverbs 31:22; Luke 16:19); the vesture of a harlot (Revelation 17:4); and the robe placed on Jesus (Mark 15:17, 20).

    This color symbolizes kingship and royalty.

    Red Describes natural objects such as Jacob’s stew (Genesis 25:30); the sacrificial heifer (Numbers 19:2); wine (Proverbs 23:31); newborn Esau (Genesis 25:25); Judah’s eyes (Genesis 49:12); the eyes of the drunkard (Proverbs 23:29); and the dragon (Revelation 12:3).

    The color of blood, it often symbolizes life; it also suggests bloodshed in the carnage of war.

    Scarlet Scarlet cord was tied around the wrist of Zerah (Genesis 38:28-30); used a great deal in the tabernacle (Exodus 25:4); the color of cord hung from Rahab’s window (Joshua 2:18); a mark of prosperity (II Samuel 1:24; Proverbs 31:21); the color of the robe placed on Jesus (Matthew 27:28); though scarlet and purple were not always distinguished (Mark 15:17); color of the beast ridden by the harlot Babylon (Revelation 17:3) along with some of her garments (Revelation 17:4) and those of her followers (Revelation 18:16).

    Often refers to blood atonement and sacrifice.
    Silver Used to represent the truth. (Psalm 12:6)

    White The color of animals (Genesis 30:35); manna (Exodus 16:31); both hair and pustules located in plague sores (Leviticus 13:3-39); garments (Ecclesiastes 9:8, Daniel 7:9); the robes of the righteous (Revelation 19:8); horses (Zechariah 1:8; Revelation 6:2, 19:11); forgiven sins (Psalm 5:7, Isaiah 1:8); a refined remnant (Daniel 11:35, 12:10); the beloved one (Song of Solomon 5:10); the white of an egg (Job 6:6); the shining garments of angels (Revelation 15:6) and of the transfigured Christ (Matthew 17:2); hair (Matthew 5:36); gravestones (Matthew 23:27); and the great throne of judgment (Revelation 20:11).

    Portrays purity, righteousness, joy, light, and a white horse symbolizes victory.

    Yellow Indicates the greenish cast of gold (Psalm 68:13) and the light-colored hair in a leprous spot (Leviticus 13:30,32)


  49. http://www.stlucianewsonline.com/st-lucian-wins-racial-harassment-case-against-canadian-farm-operator/#comment-36923

    We as Barbadian people should realize that the same thing is happening right now in Barbados with CostULess. Check out their website http://www.northwest.ca, do you see any people of color there?


  50. ON JOKERS LIKE TUTU AND THE POPE
    In his last visit with the elders of the church at Ephesus the Apostle Paul had warned them that they would have trouble in THE AREA OF FALSE TEACHING.. In the 20th chapter of Acts we find him summoning the elders of Ephesus to come down to him at the city of Miletus. There he delivered to them a farewell message of moving impact because he thought he would never see them again. In the course of it, he said to them, in Verse 29:

    “I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.” (Acts 20:29-31 NIV)

    AND SO HIS PREDICTIONS CONTINUE TO BE TRUE THROUGHOUT THE AGES EVEN UNTO THIS DAY

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