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Vernon Smith QC Suggests Barbados Bar Association Illegally Charging VAT on Member Subscriptions

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Vernon Smith QC
Vernon Smith QC

BU read the Barbados Today article with  interest which outlined Vernon Smith QC reaction to being characterised a delinquent Barbados Bar Association (BA) member. The BU family is reminded of the list which was circulated by the BA and posted to BU in a blog by Caswell Franklyn – Defaulting Lawyers.

BU has posited a view that the Legal Profession Act contravenes the Constitution of Barbados concerning lawyers who opt not to pay BA fees and is therefore a nullity ab initio. Vernon Smith’s view has also been discussed.  Now that he has come public in his defense it provides the opportunity for the BU family to explore the matter further.

Vernon Smith is quoted in the article as follows:

“However, Smith pointed to a long-standing dispute he has had with the Bar Association over his “conclusion” that the law did not require attorneys to pay VAT on subscription fees. He pointed to a January 29, 1997 letter to the secretary of the Bar Association, under the heading “Barbados Bar Association subscription for the year 1997 for Vernon O. Smith and Laurie-Ann Smith of Smith & Smith.” [BU emphasis]

BU proffers the following decision in a House of Lords case for BU legal eagles to ponder given the recent turn of events fired by Vernon Smith QC public position on the matter. We digress to clarify that any reference to BU legal eagles includes Caswell Franklyn who has shown an above average grasp of legal matters posted to BU. Surely some members of the BU family have been most uncharitable to Caswell when debating legal issues. As a consequence Caswell has NOT been amused.

Here is the case referred to  which appears to give credence to Smith’s position that it is illegal for the BA to charge members VAT on subscriptions.

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151 responses to “Vernon Smith QC Suggests Barbados Bar Association Illegally Charging VAT on Member Subscriptions”

  1. The People's Democratic Congress Avatar
    The People’s Democratic Congress

    Alvin Cummins,

    It is the incomes, payments and transfers of the broad masses and middle classes in Barbados, and especially those that operate (work or do business) within the private sector, that are one and at the same time directly or indirectly being stolen and robbed at the hands of the government that continues to steal countless portions of their remunerations on an ongoing basis!!

    A poor person can at times find himself or herself handing over near 60 per cent of their total income on average per year towards evil wicked TAXATION. Given the latter rendition and many other apposite ones, it is partially clear why there are millionaires – who are the next biggest beneficiaries – outside of governments being the most loathsome beneficiaries – of the existence of Taxation systems.

    Most, if not all, Taxation systems – by stealing so much of the remunerations of the broad masses and middle classes – help to make the broad masses and middle classes more dependent on the same millionaires for much succour in various ways, and help to make the said segments of people greater subjected to the cruel or snide exploitation schemes of the millionaires.

    What is also very important to understand is that these millionaires/billionaires too – 99 per cent of whom are in business commerce across the world – use these businesses to either pass on to the customers of these businesses – who include many governments too, or to recover from them, their tax income, payment, transfer costs to the governments.

    A study was conducted some years ago by three UWI academics on the state of the black middle class in Barbados and it was hypothesized that near 3 per cent controlled the vast majority of remunerations in Barbados. And this was in spite of the TAXATION SYSTEM being in place for so many years in Barbados!!

  2. The People's Democratic Congress Avatar
    The People’s Democratic Congress

    In the 7:00 pm, April 24, 2013, post in the last paragraph, it could have been construed by some that the idea that money is not a medium of exchange is what is being indoctrinated in the school and college systems in Barbados, when what the PDC had intended to say was that the notion of money being a medium of exchange is what has been indoctrinated, against the logic that it is not a medium of exchange.

    PDC

  3. Crusoe Avatar
    Crusoe

    ”The People’s Democratic Congress | April 24, 2013 at 8:47 PM |

    In the 7:00 pm, April 24, 2013, post in the last paragraph, it could have been construed by some that the idea that money is not a medium of exchange is what is being indoctrinated in the school and college systems in Barbados, when what the PDC had intended to say was that the notion of money being a medium of exchange is what has been indoctrinated, against the logic that it is not a medium of exchange. ”
    ———–

    What then is a medium of exchange? Coconuts? xxxsy?

    Bunch of mad people. Stupse.

  4. Crusoe Avatar
    Crusoe

    World falling apart and wunna arguing about foolishness.

  5. islandgal246 Avatar
    islandgal246

    “Bushie have a STRONG opinion about having to pay THOUSANDS of dollars each year in land tax for property Paid for and OWNED by the bush man….”

    Bushie Thousands of dollars????? Hmmmn…..even though you BIG BLACK AND UGLY wid a BIG MOUT You can still get wimmen. Yuh looking more an more attractive, a woman once said dat eff a man look a little better than a gorilla and got MONEY he cud get almost any woman, (except ME of course). So dem got hopes fuh you and the CJ. ROFL…LOLLLLLL

  6. islandgal246 Avatar
    islandgal246

    And the PM too!

  7. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    LOL @ Islandgal
    It look like If malicious Lemuel had not outed the bushman ’bout the Mercedes Bushie woulda gotta good chance between the land and the Benz den!!!

  8. Well Well Avatar
    Well Well

    Looks like the newly minted CJ has no plans to let the Alair debacle die a natural bajan death…………good for him.
    http://www.nationnews.com/articles/view/cjs-stand/

  9. David Avatar
    David

    The CJ does not appoint QCs so what is he going to do? Say boo?

  10. Well Well Avatar
    Well Well

    I don’t know, maybe he might find some obscure, antiquated law, there are still enough of them lying around or he may still be able to discipline Alair, qc or not he is still an attorney.

  11. David Avatar
    David

    At this stage based on what we now know the Disciplinary Committee of the BA may have a better chance.

  12. Well Well Avatar
    Well Well

    We will see if the BA headed by Pilgrim has any cojones left to do the right things.

  13. Lemuel Avatar
    Lemuel

    Bushie
    i could see that Island leaning towards you. throw in a few acres of land, dinner at the hilton and now we have the moon moonlight dinners with a walk on the beach. By the time you get by the hot pot she should be putty in those big rough hands of yours.

  14. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ David
    Good luck with any hope of actual action from the CJ…. Does “Heads will roll” sound familiar to you…. LOL
    These people are bare talk…it is important to note that they always add a proviso …
    Heads will roll …..IF it turns out that…..
    I will act ……AFTER I am FULLY briefed… (That could be sometime in 2024…)

    Fully briefed my donkey…AS skin he pooch at the woman judge…what more briefing he want….a picture of the pooch?
    …besides he RIGHT to do um! 🙂 BRAVO ALAIR!!!

    Steupssss

    The CJ could really pack up he bags and go long back to New York for all the difference he has made….LOL ….tek care Marston don’t find heself in AS line of fire too…Ha Ha Ha

    @ Lemuel
    Bushie don’t want to hear nothing from you about Islandgal. You already embarrassed the bushman in public by bringing out the fact that Bushie’s Benz is just a classic model from Cave Shepherd. Bushie had the woman ready to capitulate before you push in your malicious mouth…..now Bushie drop back to number 3 behind Islandguy and a piece ah de rock…..

    PLEASE do NOT help Bushie any more…..

  15. Well Well Avatar
    Well Well

    Bushie stop……yuh killing me this morning, you will make me hurt my ribs, they have not healed yet.

  16. David Avatar
    David

    And Bushie they were officers of the Court who witnessed the incident AND by AS’s apology it makes an investigation easy. Just like one of the many confessions which the policemen have been able to secure over the years.

  17. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    There are laws that govern the actions the CJ can take so all he is required to do is his job within the confines of the Law.

  18. David Avatar
    David

    @Hants

    When BU et al supported the coming of the CJ who was selected from outside the inner ring, we rejoiced. However we did caution that for the CJ to be successful in moving change he would have to demonstrate the leadership skill to bring along key stakeholders like the government through the office of AG, the Registrar, the BA etc. Has this happened?

  19. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    If the CJ was like me he would not “bring along key stakeholders like the government through the office of AG, the Registrar, the BA etc”.

    He would just do the job he is being paid to do and more.

    When you have the privilage of getting called back home you should show gratitude by doing the job you are paid to do……..or face the wrath of the BU intelligensia.lol

    I have a feeling the CJ is “nice guy” unlike some of the thugs on BU like me……..an Bushie.

  20. Amused Avatar
    Amused

    @David and BU family.

    We know that other professions like doctors, surveyors, accounts etc. pay the Government for yearly certification – the equivalent of an attorney’s practice certificate. However, additionally they have organisations of which they are members, the objective of these organisations being largely the protection of the public and, unofficially SO FAR, unions. They are not commercial businesses.

    So, my question is DO THESE PROFESSIONS PAY VAT ON THEIR DUES FOR MEMBERSHIP OF THESE ORGANISATIONS? IN BARBADOS!!! Can anyone enlighten me?

    And if they do not, why is the BA requiring that attorneys pay VAT on their dues?

    This is a question that just occurred to me and I think that the answer could be relevant to this particular issue. Don’t you? Because if these organisations DO NOT require their members to pay VAT, does it not beg the question as to why the BA, whose counsel are all attorneys, have not spotted that which other organisations (who are non-lawyers) have not only spotted, but implemented?

    @Bushie. I agree. Me too, you got laughing too hard for so early in the morning. I am not quite clear what Gibson thinks he is able to do about the Alair issue. He does not issue practice certificates and he does not issue the commissions for QCs.Sounds like a red herring to me to divert attention away from the lamentable state of the judiciary and the Registry. Jumping on a bandwagon that has received a lot of public attention just to show that he is big and bad. But we Bajans are very adept at spotting hot air when we hear it.

  21. . John Avatar
    . John

    Amused

    It might be that the various Registration Acts of the other professions do not require membership of the various organisations.

    If the Act that regulates the lawyers in Barbados requires membership of the Bar, then the Bar provides a material benefit to the lawyers without which they cannot practice.

    When the lawyers pay their dues, they are buying an input service which they will add to other goods and services so they can sell their service to their clients.

    My feeling is if that is the case, it must attract VAT.

    Mr. Smith is actually admitting to this when he writes to the Bar and quarrels about the refusal of his cheque and I believe the directors of the Bar are right in insisting that he pay his VAT for obtaining a service which is of material benefit to him.

    He is covering his posterior with the letter.

    Unless the act has been changed, last time I checked an engineer can be registered but may not be a member of the local association.

    His/her registration permits him/her to practice his/her profession as an engineer, if he/she wants to.

    There is no need to be a member of the Association, just to submit to a Registration Board.

    He/she can choose to be a member of the local association and not Register because he/she is not practising but wants to be a part of the Association.

    Probably the same with other professions too.

    The ability to sell engineering services to the best of my knowledge does not depend on membership, only on Registration.

    I could be wrong but I don’t understand the desire not to pay VAT for a membership of the BAR if that Membership is required by law.

    Perhaps that is the reason why the unconstitutional argument is advanced but even if it does succeed, surely the offenders would have to pay up their VAT for the previous years when the law was valid.

    Alternatively, the BAR will have to get back the VAT from the VAT Department which the other 800 plus lawyers paid and reimburse them.

    This is not going to happen …… at least not this millenium!!

    The flow of money would be in the wrong direction!!

    Maybe oil will be found!!

    Comparing professions I do not think will not help Mr. Smith and others.

  22. lemuel Avatar
    lemuel

    Bushie
    But Bushie, I is only a friend with benefits, but you want to be the real main man. Alright, I got a piece thing that has no name but could pass for some purty expensive vehicle, once it is Island you romancing you could borrow it. Remember I say borrow Bushie. Borrow the cares from David. Don’t let he fool you. And the moonlight free so you set Bushie.

    Bushie
    I hear you, but the CJ would have to be smoking something not totally legal to make the kind of statement he mek and then doan do nothing, whether fully briefed or not. Does the CJ realize what that would do to his reputation and I agree with you. If all he doing is talking, he could tek up he bag to go back to NY.

  23. Well Well Avatar
    Well Well

    Being an old New Yorker, I don’t think the CJ would want his credibility questioned or ridiculed………………I think he sees this as a challenge, if not, he is not worth his salt.

  24. Amused Avatar
    Amused

    @John. I disagree and you are rehashing old ground.

    If you read the House of Lords judgement that David has posted here, it gives very clear directions as to what and what is not considered to be a VATable organisation. And the BA falls clearly into the non-VAT group and no amount of creative stretching is going to alter that. I am not sure how you can possibly arrive at the conclusion that when people pay their Bar dues they are, “buying an input service which they will add to other goods and services so they can sell their service to their clients.”

    WHAT input service? How does it differ to taking out an entry in the Yellow Pages? HOW does it assist them to sell their services? I believe that you need to read the Bar’s objectives. Let me save you looking them up: http://www.barbadosbarassociation.com/about_us.cfm. As to ethics, I refer you to http://www.barbadosbarassociation.com/code_of_ethics.cfm.

    Given these, therefore, it seems to me that you cannot support your argument about buying an input to service that will add to their goods and services so they can sell their services to clients. The Bar does not issue (and cannot revoke) practice certificates, it does not determine who is and is not qualified to practice law, it does not determine the standards of education required to practice law. It is a TRADE UNION. Very simply that – it is a TRADE UNION! Nothing more.

  25. Well Well Avatar
    Well Well

    No wonder when wronged clients went to the BAR to complain for thieving lawyers and get some degree of satisfaction they were turned around and around…………….so why do they not say they are a trade union and stop acting like they have a different function. All those CJs, AGs and PMs, should get some quality time at Dodds for their fraudulent ways.

  26. Amused Avatar
    Amused

    @Well Well. Well Well: I agree with you, except the last sentence. I am very intrigued to see how Andrew Pilgrim is going to go about obtaining these directions from a judge that he says he is seeking. Now, I may, in my advanced senility, be missing something, but just who is he going to bring the proceedings against? Which dissenting attorney? Is he aware that, once brought, ALL the dissenting attorneys have the right to join the action? And if they do, that would be in keeping with the Bar’s AGM meeting of 2008 where it says that it would be VERY EXPENSIVE – because the BA WILL lose. So, I am waiting to be instructed and to learn from a brain far younger than my own.

  27. John Avatar
    John

    Amused

    The Privy Council appears to have interpreted the UK act.

    The Barbados VAT Act is not based on the one in the UK.

    I am not sure if the decision will carry much weight …. but of course, I could be wrong.

  28. Well Well Avatar
    Well Well

    The last sentence is not out of spite but it a reaction to the fact that all the individuals CJs, AGs, PMs most of whom are/were lawyers are /were well aware of these problems and not only choice to do absolutely nothing but never felt in necessary to inform the public/taxpayers who not only pay/paid their salaries but are also victims of these same lawyers who are protected by the Bar Association who also never felt it necessary to let the public know they are nothing but a trade union.

  29. Anonymous42 Avatar
    Anonymous42

    http://www.centralbank.org.bb/webcbb.nsf/WorkingPapers/80F4E04A4C95A9AA0425785D0081EB1D/$FILE/WP1996-07.PDF

    “VAT Legislation
    Drafting
    The legislation was based on the Canadian, Jamaican, New Zealand and Trinidadian Acts.”

    Surely by now after so many years there are tried and tested clear guidelines as to who must file VAT.

    What is the big fuss over?

  30. Well Well Avatar
    Well Well

    Cause somebody is muddying the waters and keeping everything muddled regarding the lawyers and they have done this for may years……………..

  31. John Avatar
    John

    Amused

    How does it differ to taking out an entry in the Yellow Pages?
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    It actually doesn’t!!!!

    A listing in the yellow pages attracts VAT which is paid the same time the Telephone Bill is paid!!

    I am pleased to see you are coming around to my way of thinking!!

    If the VAT is not paid, the arrears build up.

    If you are dumb enough to tell Lime you have no intention of paying VAT, your service is discontinued.

  32. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    Man Amused call it quits nuh! …your logic is clear affected by your emotion on this one…

    Try and pay the damn Bar fees PLUS the people VAT do! 🙂

    The bar is BOTH a trade union AND a regulatory body. …(and probably a Rum Shop too…)
    Wunna does benefit from free education
    Wunna get free access to client funds for loans
    Wunna does hardly pay PAYE
    Wunna does benefit from legalized MINIMUM FEES
    Wunna does get protection from competition
    ….and want to get VAT exemption too….?

  33. John Avatar
    John

    Actually, there is one huge difference between a Yellow Page Listing and membership of the Bar.

    A Yellow Pages Listing is entirely optional.

  34. Well Well Avatar
    Well Well

    Bushie……….obviously they want much, much more, without giving back anything……………..

  35. John Avatar
    John

    (5) The Registrar shall cause to be published in the Official Gazette
    (a) in the month of February in every year, an alphabetical list of persons who have at the 31st January in that year obtained a Practising Certificate;
    (b) as soon as practicable after he obtains a Practising Certificate, the name of any person obtaining a Practising Certificate after the 31st January in any year.
    (6) A copy of the Official Gazette containing the list referred to in paragraph (a) of subsection (5) or the name of any person published pursuant to paragraph (b) of that subsection shall be Prima facie evidence in any court of the registration on the Roll of the name of, and the holding of a valid Practising Certificate by, any person mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b) of that subsection.

    The Public, through the Official Gazette can know who has a Practising Certificate …… or not!!

    By now, the February Edition should have been published by the Registrar, possibly even the March Edition too.

  36. PLANTATION DEEDS FROM 1926-2013 AND SEE MASSIVE FRAUD ,LAND TAX BILLS AND NO DEEDS Avatar
    PLANTATION DEEDS FROM 1926-2013 AND SEE MASSIVE FRAUD ,LAND TAX BILLS AND NO DEEDS

    http://barbadosfreepress.wordpress.com/2013/04/25/time-for-citizen-oversight-of-lawyers/#comment-1330741

  37. Well Well Avatar
    Well Well

    I am now beginning to think that some of them have been practicing for years without a valid practicing certificate with the full knowledge of the PMs, AGs, CJs……………..jeez, could this get any worse?

  38. Anonymous42 Avatar
    Anonymous42

    Is a practice certificate a prerequisite to practicing law in Barbados?

    If the law requires that lawyers must pay the BA fee, plus VAT, to receive a practicing certificate which allows them to practice their profession in Barbados

    AND

    if some lawyers are practicing and have been doing so since 1997, when VAT was introduced, and are not being prosecuted for practicing without a valid certificate, then it stands to reason that these lawyers have obtained practice certificates by some means other than by paying BA fees plus VAT

    OR

    lawyers do not need a practicing certificate to practice law in Barbados.

    Can someone from Canada, Jamaica, New Zealand or Trinidad tell us how it works as nobody here in Barbados seems to know the answer?

  39. John Avatar
    John

    Looks like same old thing across the waters in TT!!

    http://lawassociationtt.com/documents/subs2012.pdf

    “Please be advised that the Council intends to take sanctions including publication of the names of Members who fail to hold a valid Practising Certificate. Dated 14th September, 2012”

  40. june boy Avatar
    june boy

    Barbados hAS BECOME A LAWLESS SOCIETY, drivers driving as they like way above the speed limit, parking at night without lights, parking around corners, parking on the wrong side of the road. The doctors not registering, yet pratising, the attorneys at law doing the same. Teachers at another school is ready to follw the BSTU path with another principal, even the clergy at Codrington College are planning to strick.Now the politicians ripping off the very people who put them there, but the BPF can’t do anything about it because the top brass is divided and not speaking to each other. This country , like the Jamaican minister said, needs Divine intervention.

  41. islandgal246 Avatar
    islandgal246

    Juney ma boy mamma send yuh to school to learn to read and write…..
    De word is strike and stop writing strick
    And mekking up nuff lotta shite
    Practice is what you must do a lot
    And den yuh gine get it right

  42. Caswell Franklyn Avatar
    Caswell Franklyn

    O wise Amused (10:26 a.m.)

    Why don’t you stop misleading people on this blog? The Bar Association is not a trade union. When was it registered as such under the Trade Union Act? If you want to be a member of a trade union, you can join Unity; not that we would be happy to have you.

  43. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    The CJ was on TV this evening referring to the backlog of cases. Is this man a complete joke? The CA judgment in the constitutionally significant ‘gun case’, heard in January 201 wasn’t it, was promised for June 2012. Well we’re all still waiting and judges are now giving suspended sentences (eh?) in gun matters in the absence of clear direction from a CA headed by him. The man is good at self-promotion. Is he capable of a sustained piece of legal writing? If not, let one of the others do it.

    And on the issue of Alair……would someone tell me what authority the CJ has for doing anything? Isn’t the proper course for complaint to be made to the Disciplinary Committee? After all, Alair has paid his dues to the BA hasn’t he and so actually practises within the system statute requires?

    I am told that Alair’s spleenfully elevated gown was a direct consequence of the judge’s repeated tardiness and, if so, he gave her (and rightly) an analogous kick in the a.. Great. We are far too prone to fawn to the powerful simply because they’re THERE.

    @ David

    Yes…and one of the payers is I gather, and as you must know very well, one who has vociferously been in the van of ‘principled non-payment’. If that’s right…. another joke. Well good luck to him today. He’s waited long enough for promotion he would say. But then humility was never his strong point.

  44. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    @ Islandgal and June Boy

    ‘Strick’ or ‘strike’, other than as a spelling exercise, is neither here nor there. The clergy at Codrington are not planning to strick. The students are protesting through the Nation at the autocratic idiocy of the Principal and, indirectly, about the system of which he forms a part and which placed him there – and not before time. Is the fact of protest itself ‘Divine intervention’?

  45. Amused Avatar
    Amused

    @Lassie. So you are saying that the BA, which looks like a duck and quacks like a duck – I mean TRADE UNION, has refused, failed and/or ommitted to pay for registration under the Trade Union Act? Lovely. And yet it is jumping up and down because attorneys have opted NOT to belong to it and have questioned the constitutionality of the Act by which it insists on them belonging? Would appear to me that this is a case of pot calling kettle black.

  46. Amused Avatar
    Amused

    @Anonymous42 | April 25, 2013 at 4:50 PM | I refer you to the comments of Solicitor in the previous blog on this issue.

  47. Caswell Franklyn Avatar
    Caswell Franklyn

    Amused

    You are too wrong for words, and that has been increasing here of late. It seems that those neurons are mis-firing.

  48. David Avatar
    David

    @Caswell

    According to Andrew Pilgrim it will be settled soon. It does not remove the concern why under several AGs and BA presidents it would have been allowed to fester. Finally why would a former CJ advise to forget about it.

    To the comment by the CJ delivered at UWI the other night. He stated that it is an impossible task for 8 sitting judges to relieve the backlog. Well hear this CJ, we do NOT want you to restate the problem. We know the damn problem. We have known it for YEARS!

  49. Well Well Avatar
    Well Well

    How come the CJ does not have clerks and paralegals to help him write briefs or whatever is needed………….he knows this is standard operating procedures in NY…………..or has he forgotten, the old sun and sea and sudden elevation to some kinda system i hope has not gone to his head.

  50. PLANTATION DEEDS FROM 1926-2013 AND SEE MASSIVE FRAUD ,LAND TAX BILLS AND NO DEEDS Avatar
    PLANTATION DEEDS FROM 1926-2013 AND SEE MASSIVE FRAUD ,LAND TAX BILLS AND NO DEEDS

    @robert ross Isn’t the proper course for complaint to be made to the Disciplinary Committee?@ if so, tell us who they have given Disciplinary to?Its not working for the people but working well for the bad lawyers, So if they delay 20 years like court cases who suffers? If the Disciplinary Committee does nothing , what you say is the next step? is it to for get it? or self help is needed by those who believed they were WRONGED.

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