Critiquing Sixth Form Performance At Harrison College And Queens College Versus The Others

Submitted by The Scout

Reverend Errington Massiah

There was an interesting article in this week’s Nation newspaper by Father Errington Massiah about the failure of two sixth form schools not gaining Barbados Scholarships. While what the Education Minister Ronald Jones said is true, he should have pointed out the flawed system used to determine the entry to secondary schools in Barbados.

As it stands Harrison College and Queens College take the cream of the crop, the other schools take the remainder. What is interesting is that for sixth form these two schools again take the top achievement students from all the other schools, it therefore stands that these two schools [Harrisons and Queens College] should take all or most of the Barbados Scholarships.

What must be realised is that all of those students who gained scholarship each year from Harrison College especially did not obtain their early secondary education at that school, instead some came from the other secondary schools, even schools which have a sixth form. Great respect is due to those students who achieve Barbados Scholarships and  Exhibitions who attended the lesser secondary schools, especially the newer ones.

Maybe it is time that Barbados focuses on offering scholarships in fields other than the academics. There are many children who are gifted in carpentry, masonry, culinary arts, graphics, other fine arts and other non-traditional scholarship areas that need assistance in furthering their studies.

In the international work world a highly qualified skilled person is more acceptable that a highly qualified academic. There are many persons with these bachelor or masters degrees who are producing below their qualifications. On the contrary, many lesser qualified skilled persons are in great demand. Maybe it is time the Ministry of Education to refocus the system by rebranding some of our secondary schools to skills schools. Perhaps only then will the playing field for skilled students to be granted Barbados Scholarship be levelled.

0 thoughts on “Critiquing Sixth Form Performance At Harrison College And Queens College Versus The Others


  1. Let’s get real here. Will a scholarship in carpentry carry the same prestige as a scholarship in Maths, Physics and Chemistry? Just asking!


  2. 1. First of all standards dropping all over. I sat 11plus in mid 90’s and back then you had to get higher than 84 (average) to get into Combermere (C’Mere) and I think the year in front the cut off marks were higher. Now they are children getting in their 70’s (average) and going to C’Mere.
    2. At C’mere we strive for all students to do get that highest academic level of a scholarship or exhibition. But we were never that big on producing academic scholarships or exhibitions (my year had lots of near misses); we were big on producing well rounded individuals. So I dont know why the Minister is surprised. Dont get me wrong I think its great when schools could attain scholarships or exhibitions. Congrats to HC & QC this year.
    3. I agree with you about students from other secondary schools (also C’Mere & Lodge) who only go to 6th for at HC or QC and they get scholarships. HC has claimed nearly all of our Prime Minsters and I believe that only 1 (Tom Adams) went to HC throughout. I believe Barrow first went to C’Mere; Sandiford & Authur first went CP; St. John & Stuart first went Foundation. (Correct correct me if I am wrong).

    At UWI I have met past students from Springer, St. James & St. George Secondary. If you have a scholarship/exhibition or a handful of CXC’s; your journey does not stop there. Both ‘scholars’ and ‘non-scholars’ alike can make the most of what you have.


    • Unless Minister Jones can provide more insight – one must assume he is seized with more information than we in the general public – it must be labelled an asinine statement.


  3. Perhaps the time has come to offer scholarships only at the master’s or doctoral level. Let everybody else go to UWI, and if they don’t want to go to UWI let them pay to go elsewhere.

    Use the scholarship money to assist very very bright but very very poor students who otherwise would not be able to go to UWI. Let them use this money for books, busfares etc.


  4. Is Mr.Jones for real ?Every body knows that Harrison College and Queens College get the top 11 plus performers year in and year out.What he needs to do is to put those top 11 plus performers in Combermere and Lodge,and see if H’College and Queens would get a fella !I would even go as far as putting them at St.George Secondary and Grantley Adams Memorial.The scolarships would then come from those schools,Mr.Jones!


  5. Not Combermere so much, but Lodge used to match HC for scholarships. The standards at Lodge have fallen, alas! I do not understand the point about which school one went to before HC however. Should we then not credit your CAPE performance to the primary school which you attended?


  6. Back in my day it was a combination of top primary school students and the best teachers at HC and QC.

    Obviously things haven’t changed much.


  7. The Scout wrote,”There are many children who are gifted in carpentry, masonry, culinary arts, graphics, other fine arts and other non-traditional scholarship areas that need assistance in furthering their studies.”

    Great idea. I would like to see scholarships in Industrial Design.


  8. Let us add creative arts to the do. The government seems ready to toss money at the cultural industry, we will need trained personnel if it is to take off.


  9. Are you people in Barbados so sick that you have to cling on to this foolishness of secondary school allocation ?
    Can’t you people just end the stupid attachment to discrimination engendered by stupid tradition?
    Why dont you recognize that you should be Zoning .
    Cant you see that this approach contributes in some way to some of your problems ?
    How can continue to see only academics as important and all others as idiots not worthy of money and comfortable life.
    Can Society live with only doctors and laywers ?
    Dont plumbers , masons and eletricians , mechanics and such persons contribute too
    Are you so stupid ??


  10. Education minister make sure my old school Foundation gets its sixth form in September as you promised no Jonesing around Foundation will be up there with Bdos Scholars in quick time.
    Our learned PMFruendel Stuart would have easily won a Bdos scholarship if Foundation had a sixth form.


  11. @ T.J check your facts Fruendel Stuart attended Foundation School exclusively he didnt go to HC. He and David Thoumson are the only two PM’s with no connection to Harrison’s College. Do you people read?


  12. @ JUST ASKING | August 28, 2011 at 8:06 AM

    Sadly Barbadians continue with their foolish pride from top-down. Your comments are right on par. I’ve been dwelling on your concerns for a very long time. I’ve always felt that zoning would eliminate the unnecessary stress that these students have to endure, furthermore the embarrassment. When I voiced my opinions, I get the same response, “nothing aint going to change.” But how can anything change if the masses are wrapped up in the process for their own purpose and less of the child.

    Many parents contribute to the stress that they put their children through by instilling in them that they have to go to a “prestige” school to be “somebody.” I think that if the so-called prestige schools are supplied with the best teachers, then it might be worth it for the education dept to rotate teachers from these “high ranking” schools to the “lower ranking” so that students can go to school without thinking she or he is not as good as those attending other schools. It would help to get rid of the prestige nonsense that so many dwell on.

    Unless zoning takes place it would continue to be the shame chit just a different day with more of the same
    chite


  13. Zoning only works if all the schools have the same resources and the same quality teachers.

    Unless something has changed HC, QC and Lodge used to have the best teachers and resources.


    • The problem with zoning is 2 fold 1) the structure of classism which currently rules will make it hard to dismantle the current system 2) 70%, to guess, of Barbadians work in Bridgetown and the St. Michael area,


  14. What Barbados also needs is a Polytechnic and Community College that focuses on the Trades and Creative Arts.

    Instead we have the Community college trying to be a University while battling for academic scholarships.

    Google George Brown College and Centennial College in Toronto.

    I gine an practice wha I learn at the informal Barbados Institute of Piscatorial Pursuits. I am applying that training in Rivers and lakes in Canada.lol

    uh gone.


    • @Hantsie

      Recent news report suggest the long awaited Barbados College, an amalgamation of the SJPP and BCC, will located in St. Lucy.


  15. Why cant people who matter see that the problem with zoning is no problem at all ?
    Cant people just see that all needs to be done is for us to just do it.
    Cant people who matter see that for a short period that there would be wailing and gnashing of teeth but eventually things would settle down.
    Cant you people remember that there was a hue and cry when Queens College was to be relocated to Husbands ?
    What say the naysayers now ?
    Has the School suffered any ?
    Dont Barbadians complain about everything , every major development because they seem to be afraid to take steps by themselves because of a childish, hold-my -hand approach that I will fall or fail if I dont get help?
    Is it not clear by now that Bajans tend to be afraid of change -any change , even change for the better ?
    Didnt many bajans oppose the building of the deep water harbour; QEH; Government Headquarters(Bay Street); Central Bank Building ; Treasury Building; East Coast Road; University of West Indies at Cave Hill -(people quarrelled when the land was acquired);ABC Highway; Sherbourne;Kensington Oval; Crop Over Festival ; Calypso Music ; Rihanna-(SHE IS A MAJOR DEVELOPMENT)
    Cant call all
    Can you add some more?
    Dont you know that if you listen to people , you would do nothing ?
    JUST ASKING ?


  16. Responding to Just Asking of August 28 at 8:06 p.m. who wrote “Why dont you recognize that you should be Zoning .”

    I lived in a place in Barbados and a place with zoning. In the place with zoning parents who could afford to live in the expensive zones got excellent educations for their children

    Poor people who could not afford to buy houses in the expensive zones with the excellent schools got crappy educations in crappy schools.


  17. No matter how we slice it, it partially boils down to the teacher and teacha, It is obvious that the system places the teachers at the schools that were always looked up to and the teachas are scattered to other schools where the system doesn’t think that the school can make a name for itself by producing top scholars. What a set of crock. Shame on Barbados educational system. I thought over the years and by now the mentality of those in authority of the educational system would take off those rose-colored glasses.


  18. David “an amalgamation of the SJPP and BCC”

    Why not make the SJPP a better “Polytechnic” with heavy focus on the Trades. Carpentry,Joinery,Welding and Electrical.

    The BCC can focus on Creative Arts and Industrial Design although they seem to want to be an academic centric sixth form/college hybrid.


    • @Hants

      Have no idea the logic of the decision behind what was to have been implemented in 2008, the correct name is the University College of Barbados.


  19. @ David
    Have no idea the logic…
    *************************
    Trinidad have one and Jamaica have one so we need one….

    Besides Bush Tea told you long ago that nothing in our education system makes sense …. so why should this?


    • A couple years ago former Chief Education Officer Wendy Griffith while contributing to a talk show, fingered the Springer School and one other ‘comprehensive’ school as far as performance is concerned.

      Despite calls for her to support her position with data it was never forthcoming.

      Now we have the Minister shooting off his mouth about the performance of sixth form schools at Combermere and Lodge without feeling pressure that he should support his mouthings with data.

      Bear in mind the two people at the centre of making the statements are the top figureheads of the education ministry.

      There is an irony in this somewhere.


  20. All the secondary schools in Barbados have quality, certified teachers with degrees.Also we have brilliantteachers who attended some of the newer secondary schools; the pricipal of Queens College for instance attended Parkinson School. This elitist system is causing frustration among the young people, we need to move away from the strictly academic attitude we give our children. Every day in the print media I see a company making application for jobs that can be filled by bajans if those who are interested are given that extra push. Right now we are giving scholarships to students who after completing their degrees do not return to this country, simply because there is no room for them to make a meaningful living. Let us give scholarships to those who want to pursue a career in the areas that are now being filled by foreign workers.


  21. The Minister’s comments though true were unfortunate since they neither revealed “context” nor brought specific facts.

    To Just Asking, every major educational decision (e.g zoning) will be taken in a bigger sociopolitical context as opposed to the merits of its virtue, as such there will be no zoning anytime soon under any of these administrations
    .
    To all others, the issue of scholarship allocation pales in comparison to the challenges facing our education system (and society as a whole). Debating whether we should get one or two more scholarships from whoever only obfuscates the number of professional issues our teachers face, the psychosocial issues that our schools have to contend with daily, and the inability of our education system to meet the needs of our young learners today from as early as primary school.


  22. @ David

    @Observing
    Well stated.
    *************
    Wait a minute David!! That is the same thing that the bushman said – except his got it pretty Crumpton Street words like ‘obfuscates’….

    We all know that Observing is another bright spark like MME so the Bush man defers….LOL

    That is why BT likes the 11 Plus. If Bushie was in class with people like GP, Hants, John, MME and Observing – the Bushman would probably run way….and join Zoe’s church…LOL


  23. Did you see this comment on another thread?
    Dont you think it is just as appropriate here with a little addition and subtraction
    DONT YOU THINK THAT AS FAR AS THE EDUCATION SYSTEM IS CONCERNED THAT THE GOVERNMENT OF BARBADOS AND THE MINISTER SHOULD NOT BE SUED FOR DISCRIMINATION ?
    DONT YOU BELIEVE THAT THE CONTINUED USE OF THE 11 PLUS EXAM IS NOT AN ABUSE OF BARBADIAN CHILDREN AND THAT ITS CONTINUED USE IN A MODERN BARBADOS CONSTITUTES DISCRIMINATION OF SOME SORT ?-(where are the freedom fighters ?)
    What Progresses in Education ?
    Do you mean a poor education system that focuses only on academics and that has so brainwashed people that they believe that only doctors and lawyers matter ?
    Do you mean a society who wants to send all 4000 students who sit the outdated and innocuous 11 PLUS exam to one school?
    Why do big people who left school many moons ago want to know “which school you went to school at ?” (Read Sherwin Walters -Nation 2-3 weeks ago)
    How long will this society continue with this nonsense ?
    When will we see that from the time women teachers took over in the schools that discipline climbed down?
    Dont people understand that women are not suited to the task and that they throw their hands in the air and declare -I dont care who learn once I getting my salary ?
    Do you mean a society that cant see that this damn foolishness of the 11 plus exam continues to promote elitism and discrimination ?


  24. I think this year more than any other the Ministry of Education has managed to place more students, no matter what their 11 plus scores, in schools close to their homes.

    It was done by lowering the pass marks for the more elite schools. As I understand it the head teachers of the top 4-5 schools actually get together after the 11 plus and look at the results before agreeing to set the marks for entry into their school. So the Principals of HC,QC, CM, St, Michael’s would normally say students did very well with x percent getting more than lets say 90% so HC’s principle will say they want the cut off for their school at 98%, QC may say their cut off for entry is 94% etc.

    This year however something changed and it was either that the students did not do so well in general or the Ministry/Minister changed this foolish system. That is why so many children had marks that far surpassed the number of spaces for the “higher” schools and so had to be shunted down the order to go into schools that would not normally see children with such high marks.

    So if most parents continue to put heir children down to enter HC,QC,CM as 1st choice and the cut off mark required for entry is low, there can be hundreds of students that make the grade but who cannot be allocated to those schools for lack of space, the only solution then would be to allocate those living closest to the schools to those places.

    Zoning is occurring gradually and by the time it is in place it will be too late for stubborn wealthy parents to move their home address.

    Peace


  25. Why is it a mystery that if students are assigned to schools based on having attained higher test scores when measured against their compatriots, that the same high achieving students will receive superior results compared to their peers in exams in approximately 6-7 years.

    If one likes the 11 plus they should love the Barbados Scholarship results, it proves the system is working, maybe not to everyone’s benefit but to the benefit of some students and some schools.

    Never mind that the studies which the Scholarship recipients choose to embark on are as predictable as summer rain. In an island nation where a large number of people make their living from the sea or a related endeavour not a Marine Biologist to be found, but plenty of aspirants in the fields of Medicine, Law and Accounting.

    The Generation which benefited from free Secondary hasn’t built on the legacy handed down by the visionary E W Barrow. They are unable to formulate a system which works to the benefit of all, but rely on a 50 year old relic which prizes academic achievement at the ripe old age of eleven. They still promote an educational policy which puts a premium on some “White Collar” professions above all others.

    Whichever Party forms the Gov’t of Barbados, it always finds itself stuck in the quicksand that is found within the confines of the Ministry of Education. They seem to say “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”, they should be reminded that a car with a flat tire can still be driven.


  26. “In an island nation where a large number of people make their living from the sea or a related endeavour not a Marine Biologist to be found, but plenty of aspirants in the fields of Medicine, Law and Accounting.”

    Excellent observation Sarge, it is easier to thief from the public in the above mentioned professions and get away with it.


  27. @BT & David
    Thanks for the compliment.
    In non-crumpton street talk – “Uh trying ta get a lil more regular pun hey!”

    @just Asking
    The discrimination and prejudice doesn’t begin and isn’t caused by 11 plus. It begins in the minds of parents, teachers, primary school principals and people of all ages in the community. 11 plus is just a part of the problem and a validation and sum total of our own perceptions and beliefs regarding class and academia. Also though the abundance of female teachers poses a challenge to our young males’ development I don’t agree it’s their fault for the decline in discipline. I will agree that the system needs more men though.

    Those with a genuine interest in education and some minutes to spare should take a look at this video.It spells out clearly what’s wrong with our system. Finding a solution is another debate however.


    • @Observing

      No so sure we can dismiss the female factor when you consider that it is boys/men in crisis and also the reality that children model behaviour and in the case of boys there are the male characteristics which the women with all the best intentions will not be able to supply. It does not mean that single parent homes supported by females have not done a good job but the deterioration of the extended family maybe exposing a weakness.


  28. @David
    Glad you raised the single parent home factor. I’ve argued in other places that in this age we’re living the worst thing for a boy child is to be raised by a single mother without a positive or consistent male role model around. This raises another debate outside of education re. gender expectations, role responsibilities and male “norms,” the impact of which in my opinion has mentally, financially, socially and even professionally paralyzed a generation of men at all levels. There are some things that young developing boys need that women will NEVER be able to provide.

    Regarding the schools I’m not dismissing the female factor, just don’t think we should paint the tiled floor with too big a single brush stroke and I don’t want to cast full blame on female teachers for things they don’t (or can’t) realise or can’t (or don’t want to) change. The problem (younger) female teachers pose is their lack of understanding of and inability to properly relate to young males (the reasons for this would need another thread). Thus poor teacher-student relationships, unrealistic teacher expectations, male frustration and even internal demotivation and disillusionment result. The rebellion or ill-discipline that we see among younger male students therefore is simply a symptom of these factors and a reaction. Some female teachers can and have corrected this in the past but alas far too few are doing it now, and in this “female independence/women’s lib/not my problem” part of the world the many others see no reason why they should.


  29. Maybe it;s time Barbados Scholarships are catigorised, the scholarships should be grabted in areas that benefit, hence scholarships in ALL areas where we are lacking and have to import foreign labour. A skills career is more acceptible internationally than a academic qualification, it is easier to gain work in a developed country as a highly qualified skills worker than being a highly qualified academic.Gone are the days where being a lawyer, doctor or an accountant is considered prestigious careers, the ability to earn a fair salary for fair work is now focused on skilled cereers, many a young doctor, lawyer or accountant is earning much less than young project managers, technical engineers or other non-traditional careers. Time our government starts assisting those with scholarships


  30. “When will we see that from the time women teachers took over in the schools that discipline climbed down?
    Dont people understand that women are not suited to the task and that they throw their hands in the air and declare -I dont care who learn once I getting my salary ?”

    The above statement is sooo assinine and I can’t believe that someone would utter these words. So who do these children belong to? The teachers? Children learn what they see from home and bring it into the school. So what is the solution? Get rid of female teachers? Well in that case the schools will have no teachers at all. Let us fact facts folks, those of you who believe men are failing because they are not given the attention at schools. Many Men are failing because they have never grown up and have never taken responsibility. for their actions. Yes Mothers are to blame for this because they never taught them responsibility at home.

    David I am a bit disappointed with your response. Even though many men stayed in the family setting many were abusive and lacked the ability to parent their children. The mothers had to be both father and mother. Men have been allowed to get away with many things whilst a woman would be chastised by both men and women if she did the same as her male counterpart. Men feel that because they are male (because they have a doggie) they have a god given right to lead. Tell me how many women leaders do you see leading their country into war? Let us face it, men have to start seeing themselves as partners in relationships and in the workplace. They have to see themselves walking side by side with their partners each taking the lead where their strengths lie. Men have to stop behaving like dogs dropping their seed all over the place and that they must be there for their children emotionally and financially. We need some serious parenting clinics on this island for both men and women.

    If men are academic failures they must take responsibility for that and stop blaming the women!


  31. @islandgirl246: “Children learn what they see from home and bring it into the school.

    IG246 et al… I would argue it somewhat differently…

    Children learn from every environment they find themselves in, and then bring what they’ve learnt back into every other environment they find themselves in.

    That is their ***JOB*** as children. To learn.

    Be it Home, School, the Workplace, the Internet or TeleVision.


  32. @islandgal

    The lack of a male role model outside the school and home setting is not to be forgotten. The difference between today and days of yore is stark in this regard. Actually it dovestail the last point made by Chris.


  33. @David: “The lack of a male role model outside the school and home setting is not to be forgotten.

    I was about to argue with you, but then I realized…

    Every influential teacher I’ve had the benefit of being taught by had been male.

    So then the question must be asked: Why are there not more male teachers here in Barbados? Is the pay too low, or is the prestige too low?


  34. Halsall wrote, “Every influential teacher I’ve had the benefit of being taught by had been male.”

    Did you go to school in Canada or Barbados?

    At Kolij we had good female teachers. Bev Alleyne (french) and Judy Pilgrim(physics) Lady Adams (Geography).


  35. @Hants: “Did you go to school in Canada or Barbados?

    Canada. This is on the record.

    @Hants: “At Kolij we had good female teachers. Bev Alleyne (french) and Judy Pilgrim(physics) Lady Adams (Geography).

    What about English, Mathematics, Chemistry, Biology and Computer Science?


  36. @Christopher Halsall,

    Teaching at the secondary level in Barbados was dominated by Males but we did have very good female teachers as well.


  37. @islandgal
    I’m glad you balanced the “male bashing” with the need for women to also play their part. It’s a big part for both sexes.

    @Hants, David and Chris
    An abundance of good male teachers are a thing of the past. You would mostly find them now in industrial/science areas now and lets be honest, a good few of them are grappling with their own sexuality (another issue all together). All other teaching areas are heavily female dominated. Female teachers of old brought a “natural maternal” slant to teaching that enhanced their pastoral and academic care as well as their teaching. Most female teachers now are either young and ill equipped; older, tired and unable to handle the challenges being presented; or focused on things other than what many of our young boys need when they come to school.

    If we’re really interested in the damage being done to our young growing males just check the male-female teacher ratio in primary schools. Our problems are being created long before secondary school.


  38. Men are only seeking excuses for their failure to behave like men and do the hard work instead of merely concentrating on their ability to procreate. What are the reasons given for male academic failure again? The 11+, co-education, too many female teachers, degrees take too long….give me a farking break!


  39. Our problems are being created long before secondary school.
    *****************************
    …and this particular problem has its genesis in co-education.


  40. @BT: “…and this particular problem has its genesis in co-education.

    Right…

    Lock a lot of young men up in a Boys’ school, and see what happens…. (For the record, I was always in a co-ed environment.)


  41. @bush tea
    Your views on co education has some merit. I was never in favor of single sex schools, but, for some members of our male population, this may be the answer. The problem is though, even in all boys schools, female teachers are still generally the majority. Erego back to the original problem. What I would say, is that a system that expects boys and girls to sit side by side and operate, learn, behave, speak, express themselves and internalise and self actualise in the same way at the same level is flawed from day one. Sadly, this is what we gave happening at our pre and primary school and to some degree our homes.


    • @Jack Spratt

      Your position on coed seems clear.

      Let us back up a bit.

      Do you accept that the current system is not working for boys?

      If the answer is yes please share your view in more than two sentences.


  42. From my investigations, I was told men shy away from teaching today especially the secondary level because of the attitude of some female teachers. When there were mainly male teachers, any disagreement among staff would be trashed out among them and settled, with female teachers, they perlong the issue for months, even years, plus they can get very vindictive and try to have the male teacher transferred. Men must have enough balls to stand up to these teachers and stand firm instead of running away. While it is easy for girls to school with boys the opposite is not so


  43. Those people who feel that HC and QC have the best teachers are really living in a fools paradise !They have the BEST STUDENTS period.So are you saying that if those so called “best teachers”,are placed at St.George Secondary and St.Lucy Secondary,that eventually the Scholars would come from those Schools?whereas,if you place the brightest students at those Schools,it would seem more logical that they would eventually produce the Scholars.This pecking order of Schools is the best that can be done,any other system would result in mass favouritism,with the poor and less fortunate being left at the gate.


  44. David, not working for which boys? Some boys won Barbados Scholarships and Exhibitions; some boys are at the top of Barbados politics, education, law, medicine, business…. some boys are on the block, some boys are in prison. Are you suggesting the system is not working because of this?


  45. Good point, Michael, but it is fashionable for the poor and less fortunate to always clamour for change. There will always be a pecking order in everything. Man was not created equal!


  46. @David

    Looks like you facilitating a forum for misogynists, first it was the female teachers and now it is coeducation. It seems that whenever we discuss any issue that is plaguing our society there is always someone to blame. In other forums it is the Guyanese and Jamaicans I am beginning to see a pattern.

    Forget about Singapore our society should be more enlightened like Saudi Arabia where women don’t inter mingle with men unless they are married or related to them, that will teach those pesky Bajan women a thing or two.

    And they say that Neanderthals are extinct.


  47. Sargeant……. you’ve noticed as well? Even the killings are done by foreigners. I have always noticed that there is a very deep hatred of Bajan women by many Bajan men. I wonder why? Jealousy perhaps?


  48. islandgal246 wrote “I have always noticed that there is a very deep hatred of Bajan women by many Bajan men.”

    That is an unfair generalisation.

    Say you know SOME Bajan men who have a deep hatred for Bajan women.
    That would be more credible.


  49. If these things were easily understood do you think that all over the world standards would be falling just when we have more knowledge, more technology and more resources than EVER in history?

    Use a bit of common sense.
    Obviously we are doing somethings FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG.

    For example:
    In this particular case, the ‘experts’ who designed mankind did so with a specific plan in mind. The male species were DESIGNED with specific strengths and the female with different strengths. TOGETHER they can form a powerful team and accomplish almost anything.

    One of the designed roles of men is that of leadership.
    Any society without strong leadership is DOOMED. The planned, specific training of LEADERS is therefore a VITAL aspect of planning for the future of any society.

    Everyone and his cousin knows that between the ages of about 12 to 16 boys mature more slowly than girls. After this age, the situation resolves itself.

    OBVIOUSLY if you create a system where your most talented boys at age 12 are forced to be ‘educated’ with girls of the same age they will come out second best during this period. By age 16 there are too far behind to catch up in the intense academic race to certification….
    Then there is the challenge of distractions all day long at the puberty stage of a macho boy’s life….
    By age 16 many of these boys will have given up in frustration and turned to other areas where their natural macho tendencies can prevail (this only applies to the REAL men who are potential leaders CH – so you need not worry LOL) – i.e the Blocks, sex, the Gangs, maybe Sport etc

    Can you see where our REAL NATURAL leaders are?
    Check the ZRs, the Blocks and the Bad Boys….Can you see why the police cannot match these groups? where are the REAL leaders?

    Why after decades does the ZRs continue to dictate the culture of our youth? Because that is where our real leaders have been pushed…

    The other problem is that the co-ed system then produces a set of females who have no understanding of these kinds of issues and who make the process even more difficult for those 12 year-olds as teachers….

    Co-education is the absolutely best and cheapest method of destroying any society.


  50. Observing wrote @ 8:41 pm ” What I would say, is that a system that expects boys and girls to sit side by side and operate, learn, behave, speak, express themselves and internalise and self actualise in the same way at the same level is flawed from day one. Sadly, this is what we gave happening at our pre and primary school and to some degree our homes.”

    Why have we (Barbados) implemented such a system? Could it be that the powers-that-be have deemed that “maleness” as constructed in the past (sometimes derisively termed machismo culture) is no longer useful in an society driven economically by services and increasing utilization of technology in the performance of most tasks?

    Is there an insidious attempt to feminise males so that they are more suited to the present economy ? Is this feminisation conflicting with the natural (?) tendencies of males leading to problems of alienation, violence, despair and identity dysfunction?


  51. “Can you see where our REAL NATURAL leaders are?”

    Does a “LEADER” have to have a “Doggie”? Before women were muzzled and told that they are weak, is that not so is it?. Maybe physically but how many men have given birth, worked and brought up a family singlehandedly ? Because the Caveman tactics are no longer working men are at a loss to solving relationship issues so in turn they abandon their women and offspring. We have also created a whoring society, a society where if a woman don’t give up the cat, she ent getting nuh money to support her children.

    Perhaps the society is showing us to look for leaders in the opposite sex. Until males learn what is a REAL man there will always be men on the block doing nutting all day.

    Groups like the boys Scouts has helped mould young boys into model citizens, but to become a member one has to have nuff money to join. The uniform alone cost the earth. Why can’t there be an alternative group? Why don’t summer camps organize a survival/outdoor camp for boys? But many parents would feel that their child can’t rough it so they will not be sending them. The STUPID summer camps organized by the government is just a babysitters club. We really have no idea how to organize activities that will challenge children, teach them life skills and responsibility. Getting up on a stage singing and wukking up is soo easy to do why bother to try.


  52. The blame culture which has erupted makes discussing issues like this one difficult. What we all have to acknowledge is that one gender cannot exist successfully without the other. The BBE seems to have created a symbiotic design. The other argument is that a society suffering from a leaking socio underpinning makes all living within vulnerable.


  53. @David
    Agreed! If we all stop pointing fingers and reassess our roles and where we (or our gender) contributed in the past to the problems today then we may be able to constructively discuss the way forward.

    @islandgal
    Your previous almost balanced arguments are taking a distinctive left lean. I’ll pose one question, can a woman dictate or define what a REAL MAN should be???


  54. Human beings are not robots. Human behaviour is a complex issue to deal with.

    Young people need discipline and structure as a foundation and that is what appears to be missing in modern Barbadian society.

    Life is complex for youngsters because of the proliferation of modern technology and drugs.

    Back in the day we had to make our own toys and instead of playing video games we went fishing,pitched marbles, played cricket,football,rounders.

    A lot of us were fortunate to live in a village where people cared about each other.

    That was then!


  55. “I’ll pose one question, can a woman dictate or define what a REAL MAN should be???”

    I can try to answer the question…A real man in my eyes is one that is willing to become a partner recognizing and working with and improving the flaws and weaknesses in each other. A REAL man would recognize that he cannot make 25 children and not contribute to their daily needs, being shelter, food, clothing and emotional needs. A REAL man knows that work is healthy and that he must work to help provide shelter, food and clothing for his offspring. A REAL man will stand up for what is just and not be swayed by his peers. A REAL man is one who cares and puts his family ( I mean his wife and children) first.

    And I will pose this question …Can a man dictate what a REAL MAN should be?


  56. It is somewhat comical how the discussion morphed from an examination of the results of obtained by Six Form students at HC & QC versus other schools to a rant first against female teachers and then to coeducation. We now know that these women in the classroom are emasculating the poor boys who are their students or their peers.

    After school these boys are useless except for activities on the block or driving ZR’s (where their dormant leadership skills surface). There is an almost a universal yearning for the good old days when men were men and sheep were scared.

    If the discussion continues along this path I would not be surprised if someone echoes the comments of the Iranian “spiritual” leader who said that the spate of recent Earthquakes were due to the revealing clothing worn by women.

    The aphorism “You never too old to learn” is always true whenever I read some of the comments on this blog.


  57. Each year we discuss and brainstorm placements of students in schools and which school got the most scholarships.

    Today, I read in the Daily Nation that Almond Resorts Inc., Heywoods, St. Peter and Millennium Investments Limited operating as ‘The Crane Residential Resort” are both expressing their intention to submit an application for a work permit for a non-national to fill the positions of Executive Assistant Manager and Project Manager respectively.

    How is it that we spend millions and millions of dollars as a country in education on NATIONALS and our members of our private sector does not receive ‘suitable applications’ to their advertisement.

    Getting a scholarship is one thing, what returns are we getting upon our investment. Our scholars apparently are not applying for jobs advertised in our daily newspapers.


  58. I believe, when the entire of Barbados recognizes that people really learn at different rates, we will respect all men, and give the opportunity to an individual who is capable of doing the job rather than the person they favour because of academic achievements.

    Both Almond and Millennium Investments have given our Government a hard blatant slap in the face in our media (public view) and we are quibbling about which school got the most scholarships and why.

    In my opinion, if a child goes into secondary schoolaveraging 50% and within the first year the teachers are not able to lead that child to 55% the teachers have failed (1) to capture the child’s attention (2) to command respect (3) to demand that when you arrive on these premises here are the rules and this is the espected behaviour. Upon this will children thrive and excel.

    Let us bring each child to the realization that we as teachers will take you to the next level. We will lead you to a 5% improvement annually. We all pass. Teachers are responsible for each child and to command the respect of each child.


  59. @sargeant
    Great summary. Lol.

    In essence our education system though adequate is far from good. Our males are disadvantaged, thus affecting them later in and throughout life. The “good old days” are a thing of the past. Female teachers are ill equipped to deal with school challenges, hence compounding (not causing) the problems. Scholarship results are superficial (except to the winners) and mask the inequality, misguided perceptions and imbalance that exists in the system. Radical reform and contemporary policy is needed if the “real” issues are to be addressed in any meaningful way. Men and women need to work together. Only a man can impart male knowledge and guidance to another man.

    At the end of the day the family and community are and should be the first points of intervention and development. School is supplementary.


  60. Island gal you r going to b mad with me …….. but Bush tea is sooooo correct.

    You do find lots of persons who are involved in ‘gangs’ to be articulate and very skilful. Techie might know some of these persons as well.

    One stands out in my mind … a guy known as’lil man’ who is a born leader however he is a rebel.

    He is very good with his hands and a personality that not even a Permanent Secretary or, Minister or Prime Minister can have.

    Sadly, today he is a shell of what he once was …… it is as if he has given up and decided to to be lost.

    Can anyone remember who was the person who mandated that there should be coeducation……. I think it was a female wasn’t it ……..


  61. @Islandgal246: “A REAL man would recognize that he cannot make 25 children and not contribute to their daily needs, being shelter, food, clothing and emotional needs. A REAL man knows that work is healthy and that he must work to help provide shelter, food and clothing for his offspring.

    Just wondering… Have you read any of Richard Dawkins?

    His “The Selfish Gene” speaks to all of your above points.

    I wonder if you can borrow any of his books from the Barbados Public Library.


  62. Society has become so gender nutural that there are no more Boy Scouts, the movement is now open to both genders and the standard has fallen BADLY. Things a man can talk to a young teenage boy about a female teacher can’t, Men have allowed women to run them out of teaching because of the women’s picky attitude and our young boys are the victims. Most female teachers I know are bias towards girls in the form and in the schools in general.
    IslandGal 246
    A REAL MAN is one who accepts his role as a LEADER and HEAD of his family.
    A REAL WOMAN is one who accepts the role of the MAN and assist him in achieving that responsibility.


  63. “Men have allowed women to run them out of teaching because of the women’s picky attitude and our young boys are the victims. Most female teachers I know are bias towards girls in the form and in the schools in general.”

    Scout take care yuh wife put yuh out! TAKE CARE!


  64. islandgal246
    Let me be BOLD enough to tell you, THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN, my wife knows her role and I know mine, we both discuss matters together and then I have the FINAL say and the FINAL responsibility. I’m not always right but I’m MAN enough to apologise when I’m wrong. Many a feminist at her work place have called her “soft”, “stupid” and many other names but our model has worked for over forty years and I’ve passed it on to my offspring.


  65. IslandGal 246
    Over the last few days, I’ve been watching the IAAF Athletics on TV, as always the male and female events are different. The reason is men are different than women, and as you will realise the men’s event are quicker and standard higher than that of the women. Nature has designed it that way, so as hard as you femanist try, you will NEVER come to the standard of a REAL MAN>


  66. @The Scout: “My wife knows her role and I know mine

    What you fail to realize, Scout, is it is the woman who is the decision maker.

    Does she open your legs to you? Or to another man (or men)? Or both (or all)?

    She is very calculating.

    It’s just the nature of selfish genes….


  67. Christopher Halsall
    You can disrespect me as much as you want but youy know NOTHING about my wife and I deem it NASTY and you as a VERY IMMATURED male (not even a man) if you think that all women are judged by your standard. No wonder women say “MEN IN CRISIS.” You have a SICK MIND.


  68. Perhaps I am wrong but I believe that in most happy male, female relationships, supremacy does not rear its head in the way some have explained here.

    In those, skills and abilities come together for the common good, the level of ability – and input – changes from task to task, therefore a tally is not kept after each task; for the total which leads to “overall success” is more important than a constant measurement of individual contribution.

    It is difficult in this context to say what a real man – or woman is, what each individual can bring to the relationship to make it a success dictates what is necessary to that relationship.


  69. Scout ……men like you have wives that will smile in your face and hate your guts. If you ask wives with husbands like you, you will hear the loathing they have for their husbands. Many can’t wait for them to die after suffering in marriages with beasts like you!


  70. @Yardbroom excellent summary on relationships. A penis should never be the yardstick (inch-stick) to measure the success or final word in a relationship.


  71. @The Scout,
    You seem to have had the good fortune to marry a woman who is either willing to defer to you or she is not your intellectual equal or superior.

    Talking about your wife on a blog to stroke your ego is not nise but each to his own.
    But it doesn’t really matter anyway cause nubody ent kno wha de Scout real name is.

    Be prepared and shake with yuh left hand.


  72. @ Yardbroom
    It is difficult in this context to say what a real man – or woman is, what each individual can bring to the relationship to make it a success dictates what is necessary to that relationship
    ******************************
    LOL You OK Yardie? This is not like you…sound like Freundel yuh!!

    This sounds like you had to say something – but had nothing to say.on the subject.
    After the pretty talk you conclude that you don’t know what a real man or woman is; and that “what they should bring to the relationship for success dictates what is necessary for that relationship”
    LOL ROTFL …so what IS success? What is your point?

    Bushie feel that you trying to woo Islandgal…
    cheeky!!;


    • Listened to Historian Trevor Marshall who is a historian and life long teacher in the local system, defending a position on radio a moment ago that coed has negatively impacted the school system,


  73. Hants
    I’ll shake with my left hand once you are one of my brotheren. YES, I have a WONDERFUL wife, a LADY that I was dating from the age of 14 years, I was 16, we got married 10 years later. A marriage made in Heaven, our many years in marriage is based not only on LOVE but TRUST. I count myself lucky to find such a decent, educated, successful lady, who excelled in her field as a senior person at her job. I’m not boasting but I’m just letting any of you know that a marriage is vastly different from a wedding; a
    marriage is for the long term. Couples get married today and divorce within two years, they get married for all the wrong reasons.I’m not saying my marriage is 100% perfect but we don’t go to bed at night angry with each other, if either of us fall asleep a there is an unsoved matter, we would wake the person up and resolve the matter, prayer on it hug, kiss and go back to bed. No matter how busy we are, every morning we have meditation together and then do our seperate chores. We are both happy with our lives and marriage and this LOVE and TRUST has kept us together for over forty years.


  74. Hants
    I’m sorry if I came over to strong about the relationship between my wife and I, however I read some of the male bloggers criticising women and feminist bloggers cussing the men, I was just trying to say, male and female, husband and wife can co-exist in harmoney. My marriage relationship with my wife is not on show, it is the basis of what a true marriage should be NOT JUST A WEDDING. If I came on too strong, I humbly apologise to you and anyone else, including MY FRIEND ISLANDGAL246 and Christopher Halsall. However, I must admit my wife is MY QUEEN but of course I’M THE KING.


    • @Observing

      There was a cricket program oin VOB hosted by Andrew Mason who had guests Trevor Marshall, Mighty Gabby, John King and Kid Site sharing views about WI cricket.


  75. Hi Bush Tea @ August 30, 2011 @ 8:03pm

    I left the blog for a few minutes, only to return and discover you throwing licks at me left right and centre, if that is not enough you also accuse me of sliding up to islandgal and offering her sugar cakes.

    You know that islandgal is as happy as can be, but you want to cause a basa basa here. I will now be less than a man and pad up outside off stump.

    Ah gone.


  76. Are we wasting money at UWI? Maybe we should be spending more money at BCC and the SJP polytechnic. See what’s happening in the USA: Some are arguing that a general university degree is a “rip off”!


  77. @Ping Pong: “Are we wasting money at UWI? Maybe we should be spending more money at BCC and the SJP polytechnic.

    Thank you for that video PP. It deeply resonated.

    I would agree that a degree means little more than you can sit in classrooms for three or four (or eight) years, and pass the tests.

    But can the resultant graduates actually *do* anything?


  78. On the conversation of exams, what’s up with the Foundation School not submitting SBA results of students which has resulted in CXC posting a fail grade?


  79. @ C Halsall, as you may know, the cost of university education (at UWI) is borne by the Government. Students and their families do not bear the brunt of the costs directly and so the issues raised in the video may not resonate with most Bajans. However, given the perilous state of public finances, the Government should be concerned as to whether the country is getting back a return on this “investment” in tertiary education. At the individual level, regardless of cost, people should give great thought to their marketability after completing any program of study unless such study was done for the sole pleasure of gaining knowledge.


  80. @PP: “C Halsall, as you may know, the cost of university education (at UWI) is borne by the Government.

    I am well aware. And as I assume you et al know, it is the tax payers who pay for secondary education here in Bim.

    @PP: “At the individual level, regardless of cost, people should give great thought to their marketability after completing any program of study unless such study was done for the sole pleasure of gaining knowledge.

    I agree.


  81. Within my small circle of family and friends, I have noticed that those that either did not go to university but went into work and pursued qualifications through distance learning or on the job training or went to vocational institutions (either here or abroad) are on average doing much better financially and psychologically than their counterparts who went to university and did a general bachelor’s degree. One youngster actually won a Barbados scholarship but chose to seek employment at a bank rather than go to university. That person is now on track for a management position 5 years later while many of her school classmates (who went onto UWI) are still underemployed in part time and temporary positions. Another did a degree in Physics but after being unemployed for 2 years, went back to school in Canada but did a course in computer numerical controlled machining. He got a job before finishing the course (but he did finish) and now has more work than he can handle. Meanwhile one graduate in Mathematics (from UWI) was working as a teller in a post office and another with a bachelor’s in biology and a masters in forensic science is a receptionist for a dentist.

    If Bajans had to pay full cost for their studies at UWI, I wonder if the place would remain open other than the medicine, law, computer studies and accounting programs.


  82. @PP: “If Bajans had to pay full cost for their studies at UWI, I wonder if the place would remain open other than the medicine, law, computer studies and accounting programs.

    Does Barbados need any more lawyers?


  83. The minister of Education stated tonight on the CBC news that there are demons in the school system that are affecting the children. So folks be on the lookout for a trained exorcist for Mr Jones. Stupse…Education really gone to the demons!


  84. Ping Pong
    That’s what I’m saying,we need to move away from the strictly traditional academics and concentrate more on the careers that are relivant in this modern society. I know of many junior doctors at the QEH who are frustrated with their career choice and are willing to either move on to another field or migrate; the same thing is happening with young lawyers. With all of this persons in construction as project managers, and many in hotel management are doing great. There are many others careers that we have to apply for non-nationals to do that we can encourage our young people to get involved in. The government needs to point them in that direcction,by offering scholarships


  85. I don’t think our Barbados scholars are bonded, so many do not return to work in the country, therefore their scholarship is of no benefit to the country.

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