Hi Bush Tea @ August 30, 2011 @ 8:03pm

I left the blog for a few minutes, only to return and discover you throwing licks at me left right and centre, if that is not enough you also accuse me of sliding up to islandgal and offering her sugar cakes.

You know that islandgal is as happy as can be, but you want to cause a basa basa here. I will now be less than a man and pad up outside off stump.

Ah gone.

@Ping Pong: “Are we wasting money at UWI? Maybe we should be spending more money at BCC and the SJP polytechnic.

Thank you for that video PP. It deeply resonated.

I would agree that a degree means little more than you can sit in classrooms for three or four (or eight) years, and pass the tests.

But can the resultant graduates actually *do* anything?

@ C Halsall, as you may know, the cost of university education (at UWI) is borne by the Government. Students and their families do not bear the brunt of the costs directly and so the issues raised in the video may not resonate with most Bajans. However, given the perilous state of public finances, the Government should be concerned as to whether the country is getting back a return on this “investment” in tertiary education. At the individual level, regardless of cost, people should give great thought to their marketability after completing any program of study unless such study was done for the sole pleasure of gaining knowledge.

Within my small circle of family and friends, I have noticed that those that either did not go to university but went into work and pursued qualifications through distance learning or on the job training or went to vocational institutions (either here or abroad) are on average doing much better financially and psychologically than their counterparts who went to university and did a general bachelor’s degree. One youngster actually won a Barbados scholarship but chose to seek employment at a bank rather than go to university. That person is now on track for a management position 5 years later while many of her school classmates (who went onto UWI) are still underemployed in part time and temporary positions. Another did a degree in Physics but after being unemployed for 2 years, went back to school in Canada but did a course in computer numerical controlled machining. He got a job before finishing the course (but he did finish) and now has more work than he can handle. Meanwhile one graduate in Mathematics (from UWI) was working as a teller in a post office and another with a bachelor’s in biology and a masters in forensic science is a receptionist for a dentist.

If Bajans had to pay full cost for their studies at UWI, I wonder if the place would remain open other than the medicine, law, computer studies and accounting programs.

The minister of Education stated tonight on the CBC news that there are demons in the school system that are affecting the children. So folks be on the lookout for a trained exorcist for Mr Jones. Stupse…Education really gone to the demons!

I don’t think our Barbados scholars are bonded, so many do not return to work in the country, therefore their scholarship is of no benefit to the country.

How many Bajans go overseas to get a degree and never return home.

How much of the half billion dollars from the diaspora is sent back by Bajans who got their degrees at taxpayers expense.

The hard fact is that Barbados cannot provide full employment for its people and some have to work overseas.

This whole issue of shifting the focus from academics to trades is not good. You have to have both.

My experience in Canada is that the “managers” have degrees and the “workers” have diplomas.

A staggering, yet little known fact is that US student debt (at over $1,000,000,000,000) is greater than total US Credit Card debt.
Along with this US graduate unemployment is growing, and is already greater than our own total national %.

It’s an unsustainable situation if looked at in educational terms.

What a start in life, saddled with a huge debt from Day 1 of your working life.

Just maybe this is more to do with conditioning and control than producing the balanced workforce necessary for smooth economic growth.

I say it’s probably just another example of a failing model being forced to borrow from our children’s future.

Straight Talk wrote, “What a start in life, saddled with a huge debt from day 1 of your working life.”

Imagine the alternative without a degree as a $5 an hour shop assistant or at a fast food joint flippin burgers.

@ Hants | September 1, 2011 at 9:06 AM |
Imagine the alternative without a degree as a $5 an hour shop assistant or at a fast food joint flippin burgers.

I’ve met several people without degrees who showed potential in their minimum wage jobs and went on to be managers, directors, executives of large firms. I’ve also met others without a degree who took applicable courses and exams and later went on to be accountants; others who joined the ranks of other professionals without the degree.

I know of a young man who worked during his school vacation in a well established medical lab. When he graduated from high school the HR manager hired him as a trainee over several applicants with degrees and experience. Some have a degree just to say they spent time in a classroom and/or they went to college/univ and there are those who can’t apply what they were taught.

No matter where one starts, it’s up to the goals, the career aspirations of the individual. Not everyone can start in high paying jobs. If horse reach, jackass would reach – one gallop at a time.

Straight Talk wrote, “You too are exhibiting this outdated bias.”
You are correct. I am 59 years old(outdated) and don’t even have a degree.

So Straight Talk and Guest you can keep your children out of University so they can prove you right.

I made a “mistake” with my youngest who wasted 4 years at U of T getting an honours degree. I should have consulted you two first an me an she mudda cudda save a whole lot of money.

Hants, you are a mere stripling at 59 compared to me, and, from your previous posts, absence of a college education seems not to have hindered your career.

However higher education may have trained you to notice I said “general” college diplomas, not honours as in the case of your admirable daughter.

This degree in every household thinking is skewing the workforce contrary to real world conditions, unless you really want expensively trained burger flippers.

In the hard times to come, who will we need more of – mediocre unemployable law and social science graduates or mechanics, engineers, farmers and seamstresses.

We need high quality graduates in the fields of the future, not high numbers of graduates for the sake of it, they being complemented with well trained technical workforce.

The balance is wrong, and it will become disappointingly more apparent.

Christopher Halsall wrote,

“How about training our people to be excellent at what they are naturally good at and enjoy doing, and then provide them with the job opportunities here in Barbados?”

Start a list. You first Halsall.

@Hants et al…

Second in my list…

How many know how to touch-type?

@Hants

the concern (from my perspective as a parent of two secondary school children) is not that all university degrees are a waste of time but that great thought must be applied in choosing the path that is best suited for the prospective student/trainee given his aptitude, interests, career goals, industry requirements and available choices. It is my ever growing belief that just going onto UWI to do “any” degree to which one can gain admittance may lead to much frustration later on. Furthermore, many degree programs seem to lack currency in the ever competitive job market and other than facilitate a clerical position in the public service or in teaching, open few (and fewer) opportunities for the graduates. The issue is thus two fold; at the individual level in that the best choice is made and at the national community level in that there is a widening of educational and training pathways particularly in skill development and not just cognitive development with a concomitant attention to cost control in delivering that education and training.

To add to Halsall’s list of areas in which Barbados could develop it’s human resource potential:
1) Food production and agro-product processing particularly greenhouse use and associated technology, horticulture, sugar technology and cotton production.

2) Fishing particularly boat building, fishing tackle production and fish processing. (Yuh mean the Taiwanese, Koreans and Chinese can come to the Caribbean to fish out our waters and we squabbling with Trinidad over a few flying fish?)

3) Entertainment and recreational production and management. Not only musicians, singers, dancers, actors but studio and stage technicians, water sports promoters (think Brian Talma, dive operators, wind surfing, kite surfing) and other extreme sports.

3) Industrial design particularly furniture design, house cabinetry (Italian kitchens selling in Barbados for $40000 and up).

4) High technology devices and products. Believe or not, there is a company in Barbados fully staffed with Barbadians called Lenstec that makes lens for the human eye (yuh know when you have cataracts and got to get the lens replaced). Ask any locall ophthalmologist and you will be told these are among the best in the world. Intel once had a manufacturing plant here (but the building is now a shopping mall) and there used to be a company here that was world rated as a tool and die maker.

@Ping Pong… To your points, I fully agree and support.

Particularly point #1: “Food production and agro-product processing particularly greenhouse use and associated technology, horticulture, sugar technology and cotton production.

We here in Barbados are blessed with more sunshine than most of the “developed” world. Heck, our country was initially populated because we could grow a lot of sugar cane to make others rich.

It is a sad state of affairs that we cannot (or, at least, do not) now grow enough food to feed ourselves, and vast amounts of our land has fallen fallow….

@ Observing
your post is bang on the money! The Human Resource Development Strategy is an excellent starting point.

http://mes.gov.bb/UserFiles/File/Babados%20Human%20Resource%20Development%20Strategy%202011-2016.pdf

Note chapter 6 of the document that puts emphasis on applied science and technology, agriculture and the cultural sector in the context of invigorating job creation and national economic growth. This accords with my contribution on Sept. 01 to “Halsall’s List”.

It is sincerely hoped that this strategy does not suffer the fate of another big “idea” – Edutec – which promised so much but actually delivered so little because there was no real commitment to change the way things are done and only an over bearing fascination with the use of jargon, cliches, buzz words, jingles and the like. It should be remembered that hundreds of millions of dollars was spent on that program too.

@David.
Your comment strikes at the heart of educational/national planning.The former being a social approach the latter being a manpower approach. Barbados has predominantly used the manpower approach with Edutech being a “mixed bag attempt” at providing for what students really need and are interested in. The difficulty is that the powers that be have difficulty articulating (or even seeing with any clarity) what our national economic strategy should be in light of 1) fluid labor market developments 2) anticipated human resource needs in a rapidly changing technological environment 3) changing educational needs, mindsets and paradigms and 4) the net negative impact of the social decline we are experiencing as a country on all of our sectors.

Having said all of that, any planning, implementation or development calls for a clear VISION of where we are heading, a COMMUNICATION of how we intend to get there and a COOPERATION with all who can assist. Without either of these we’re just spinning in mud and will continue being satisfied with a few children getting full marks in common entrance, some schools getting a few scholars yearly and the statistical facade that masquerades “one graduate per household” as being a sign of real development.