Prime Minister Mia Mottley shows off a Kensington Oval ready for T20 World Cup
Annalee Davis

Members of the BU household attended the viewing of a 30 minute documentary titled On The Map produced by Annalee Davis at Solidarity House tonight (15 July 2008). The night’s proceedings was moderated by the ubiquitous Peter Wickham. The viewing although not a full house attracted a cross section of Barbados. Before we comment on the actual 30 minute ‘piece’ we should clarify a few matters which have been given rise by tonights proceedings. Norman Faria, Barbados Guyana Consul during the feedback segment of the night’s event launched a broadside at the blogs, we believe he meant BU given our persistent blogging on the Barbados immigration issue. He called on the authorities to censor us. He referred to the vile, racist and xenophobic positions taken on the blogs regarding the issue of migrant labour with a focus on the Indo-Guyanese.

Norman Faria we hope that you are reading very carefully what we are about to write:

All of our blogs to date on the immigration issue are built on two positions 1) the lack of a managed immigration policy in Barbados and 2) the socio-impact of large inflows of Indians on a predominantly Black host population. We have reread many of our blogs on the subject of immigration and we have struggled to discern any xenophobic meanings on our part. We must admit that some of our commenters have sometimes crossed the line by engaging in racial rhetoric. However Faria, Ricky Singh and others should not mistake the comments of a few commenters to represent the views of the BU household. We believe in free speech and while we don’t condone all the comments on BU we will always seek to protect freedom of expression. We believe that Barbadians are educated enough to filter racist and xenophobic nonsense from the real fears and concerns of Barbadians. The fear was very eloquently expressed by Caribbean Broadcaster Corporation broadcaster Jewel Forde and Sydney Simmons, now retired. The issue of migrant labour is a topic which is currently occupying the many countries in the world, the developed countries being no exception.

To respond to Keith Nurse who we understand is a lecturer at the UWI and who sought to scare Barbadians by referring to the Dominican /Haiti experience by mentioning the word genocide, it will not work!

To comment on the first effort by Annalee Davis to produce, we have to compliment her on the attempt to highlight a concept which is of value to our small region, i.e. migrant labour. The Caribbean was built on the backs of migrant labour and we have no doubt that this will continue. The BU household fully supports the free movement of people within a managed immigration policy. Contained within that policy must be how ethnic populations will be absorbed by our host population. It seems like we have made this point ad nauseam since our launch but some people prefer to ignore it. The construct of the presentation was woefully inadequate to deal with such a complex topic and Davis located the story mostly in the Guyanese experience and more specifically Indo-Guyanese which led to a perceived bias by the BU household. For the benefit of Davis we should provide one glaring example. The documentary featured resident Indian lawyer Bacchus, who may have some Guyanese origin speaking to the incident dubbed ‘terrible Tuesday’. The BU family may recall that the Barbados authorities sent back 20+ Guyanese who intended to visit Barbados a couple years ago. In the film we listened to Bacchus castigating the Immigration Department and by extension the Barbados government for allowing such to occur. To our surprise the documentary failed to extract an official response from the Barbados Immigration Department to bring some balance to the issue. Instead Ms. Davis film which is a collection of disadvantaged Guyanese grieving served to build the plot for her 30 minute effort.

The feedback session which followed the viewing spanned the gamut of rubbish to insightful but that is to be expected, it is a free country. We should make mention of Ricky Singh’s contribution when he passionately asked government to reverse its current policy on immigration. Ricky seems to know more than the average Barbadian because the promised White Paper on a new immigration policy is yet to be made available for public consumption. BU took umbrage to the tone of his presentation which expressed discuss at how Barbadians and the region have been slow to adopt CSME. He also had some lashes for the media of which he is a part. Whether he likes it or not, the concerns of Barbadians are being echoed all around the Caribbean. Again the concerns of Barbadians were represented two weeks ago by the action of our Caribbean Heads to delay the roll-out of CSME until 2012 because of the very same issue for which we have concerns, movement of people.

Lastly we wish to remind Peter Wickham of the days leading up to the last general election when the Nation newspaper frustrated his effort to publish articles, the blogs assisted him in the cause. Now we have seen him betray us by agreeing with Norman Faria that the blogs need to be censored. Although he did not actually say it he did not offer a denial when Faria made the comment by co-opting his support. We take that Mr. Wickham as acquiescence. Like your former colleague Dr. Don Blackman who lauded the discussions on the blogs prior to election as healthy but recanted soon after, both of you may realize the error of your ways. To reinforce the point we had an email sent to Peter Wickham recently requesting some information to which he has refused to respond, as we said this is a departure from the recent past.

The same behaviour has occurred from someone we thought was a friend of BU, Mr. Stephen Worme of the Barbados Light and Power Company. BU will remain in the wings and quietly observe because as the Bajan saying goes, God does not like ugly.

418 responses to “Norman Faria Calls For Blogs To Be Censored While Attending Annalee Davis Rookie Attempt to Capture A Serious Topic on Film in Just 30 Minutes”

  1. Broken trident and arrow Avatar
    Broken trident and arrow

    I agree with BU’s assessment of the film or flim as in flimsy! It was just a load of pictures and words. It explained nothing just a set white and red people pontificating. The flim did carry interviews with Black migrants but they came across as stupid especially the woman who didn’t know why she was in Barbados and ended up working as a prostitute.


  2. It was a pathetic film, it was so biased it was not well balanced in its arguments it showed how a Barbados and Guyana could be; but it forgot tomention the racism the retired professor said he went to a place where persons socialised and it was kite season. And what took him by surprise twas to see 500 blacks one part of the pasture and 500 on the other side and they claim that I am xenophobic please!

    Ever body realises what is happening!

    Their case is SO WEAK imagine you aint know you come here to be a prostitute and you dont want to go to the authorities to stop some nasty man from taking advantage of me!

    Please i would be running back to Guyana as fast is ass cause there is noo way on Gods’s green earth that the people gon want me to stay and i wont want to stay!

    these people will do any despicable thing to stay!


  3. David,David,David.

    You see how precarious our society is perched.

    Like I said in another post,a monster is knocking at our door and whether he gets in depends on who opens that door.

    Right now prime minister thompson has the key to that door.

    I am soooo glad to read that Jewel Forde and Sydney simmons stood up and spoke about the concerns of average bajans.

    Can someone tell me which country with a majority indian population or a majority any other ethnic group will allow large number of legal and illegal persons of african descent to flood their country unchecked?

    Which country will allow these people to try to dictate to the majority population whose foreparents struggles and sacrificed to make their country the success it is?

    Tonight I heard stetson Babb say on radio that Barbados was the country which had the most caricom persons migrating to since CSME and the numbers who came to barbados was set at -LISTEN CAREFULLY -178,000.

    Of course he said that he is assuming some of these were temporary and went back to their homes.

    But if as we know most of the guyanese and some other caribbean nationals in fact don’t go but stayed illegally,barbados is sitting on some dynamite that is about to explode.

    This is the legacy of owen arthur.

    Again I appeal with utter urgency to prime minister David Thompson to immediately review all citizenship and permanent residences given over the past 15 years and where there is fraud detected or irregularities the documents must be revoked and persons sent home while they reapply.

    President Jagdeo is not about to do anything about these guyanese folks because they are his cash cow – they are the people who deny other caribbean country the use of their foreign exchange and send it back to guyana.

    Minister maxine Mcclean and A.G. Freundel Stuart – I would like a complete revision on the criteria for getting citizenship – it must no longer be – if a child is born here legal or illegal or to illegal parents,or through marriage of convenience, or just through application.

    Look at Japan and Switzerland and I think Bermuda as well.

    These country do not allow first or second generation immigrants to get citizenship – please change this precious gift to entitlement after 3 or 4 generation of barbadian born – otherwise they get permanent residency.

    See how Canada and the U.K. have applied more stringent methods for entry into their country for countries like Trinidad – all because of trinindadians – mainly indians – flooding into canada and claiming refuge status or guyanese turning up with false passports.

    Remember a passport holder is an ambassador of the country – giving every one of these immigrants bajan passports willy nilly will soon affect our image overseas as those persons with unacceptable behaviour – already displayed in their former country and in barbados – will now be regarded as bajans.

    Please start assisting the immigration enforcement officers by sending police and army officers with them to round up the illegals at construction sites,at faichild street bars,in st phillip,in st lucy,in st george etc.

    Make a law that any one found harbouring an illegal person will be charged $10,000 if an ordinary citizen and $25,000. if a business.

    Please introduce fingerprinting at the airport with immediate effect.

    Finally under no instance should there be an amnesty,should there be a reward for breaking the immigration law by offering them free education,health services or housing.

    Bajans are at their limit mr prime minister and are ready to burst.

    Please help us NOW.

    Already VOB has heeded norman faria’s instruction and has shut down any free discussion there about the guyanese – always falsely claiming incitement – that is his weapon.

    CBC T.V.has not yet discoverd that it is an issue, and right now all we have is this blog Barbados Underground.

    Events in Fiji,Guyana,Trinidad,Kenya,Mauritius are there to help us avoid the pitfall of the racial conflict which occurred there when an indian population is brought in to a majority african population.

    They never integrate even after hundred of years – all they do is try to extract the wealth from the black population and separate themselves into little enclaves.

    David/BU – could you if you or anyone else have the opportunity provide information on Mauruitus – where there is an indian population and population of people of african descent – I hear it is lamost like slavery for the african population.

    Maybe someone can provide further information.


  4. I believe that we are paying to much attention to that idiot Norma Faria.He is a fool of the highest order.I will encourage the bloggres to ignore Norma Faria do not allow him to get under our collars and do what is right for Barbados.
    We must protect the life our parents,grand parents and great grand parents sacrifice and left for us.
    It is we bloggers that is forcing the governments to implement a new immmigration policy in Barbados.We are influencing public opinion and I will say we are the mouth piece for a vast majority of black Barbadians.We must press on.Victory is assure.
    They are running scare.Ignore the idiot Norma Faria.


  5. Mr. Faria is just emulating his communist masters in Guyana where the press is under attack. As a communist himself, with Fascist tendencies, the coward hides behind his title… he is a disgrace as a representative of Guyana, and is despised by most Guyanese in Barbados.

    Here is an excerpt from an organization in NYC warning about the growing attacks on the media in Guyana.
    ……………..
    Caribbean Guyana Institute for Democracy (CGID), based in New York, Director of Communications, Jevon Suralie, in a statement on July 14th, said that the government of President Bharrat Jagdeo continues to vilify members of the press in a campaign of vicious attacks on those who report the truth about the government. The latest is Gordon Moseley of Guyana WRHM TV Capitol News

    “First it was journalist Mark Benschop who was placed in jail for five years. Next TV Talk Show host, Ronald Waddell, was shot to death. The government then withdrew ads from the Stabroek Newspaper and subsequently closed down CNS TV Channel 6. Now the Kaieteur Newspaper and Capitol News are under ferocious attack.” He observed that “The Jagdeo administration is hostile to the independent press and has ruthlessly attacked journalists it does not like.”
    …………………….


  6. I will not tread into the barren intellectual desert of name calling and epithets…never have I done so; and I do not intend to start now.

    My friends, unvarnished “facts” are sometimes difficult for others to handle.

    A man has ventured forth from a country, where people are being murdered as we speak and blood is a’flowing because of race. He comes to the relatively safe and peaceful country of Barbados to lecture, hector and tell us -Bajans – we are racists and what we should or should not say.

    My dear fellow, pray do not impart your “great wisdom” on us, save your lecture for your fellow countrymen and “your country” for it is there the church bells are tolling and the undertakers are being kept busy.

    I have seen enough propaganda films made by Nazis against Jews; to know that you can deliver any message you wish through them.

    My opinions will be formed by History, the “reality” in Trinidad, Guyana Fiji and other parts of the world, unfettered by the self interest of individuals. We cannot allow unelected people accountable to no one, to set our political strategy and objectives.

    I say to our Prime Minister The Rt. Hon. David Thompson, I beseech you Sir through your office to take action to ensure illegal immigrants in Barbados, through just process of Law are dealt with expeditiously…I would not trouble Sir, unless I felt there was a need.

    There is a gathering “storm” and some people now feel emboldened enough to take their positions in Barbados. Decisive action is needed and needed now or our inheritance will not be worth inheriting.

    You Sir, can make a stamp on our History and your name will be remembered long after the names of others have faded into oblivion.


  7. Last night a gentlemen siad thank you to Jewel Forde for speaking on the behalf of thousands of bajans; another lady could be seen in the back, stating that these persons are not dealing with the real issues such as racism, HIV AIDS, fear of not feeling wanted …….. She spoke on the behalf of thousands of bajans who are becoming scared.

    If they talk about genocide, why dont they ask Norman Faria and Jagdeo to help Guyanese to go home and rebuild…….

    Another thing I was in a discussion with persons and one of the MAJOR resons for D. Thompson sucesss at the poles WAS because of this guyanese issue.

    David Ellis how comes you are not speaking on behalf of your brothers and sisters in the field of journalism. Instead, you choose to speak about persons you HARDLY KNOW, at least these journalists are people you can relate to in some way; but you admire jagdeo’s policy of not taking care of his own you are a FRAUD.

    You Mr. Ellis are an educated dunce, you have chosen to forget about all of our foreparents struggles in times gone by recent and not so recent. You Mr. Ellis have no pride in what we have built you and the guyanese who claim how wicked we are, lots of words can be used to describe you persons such as deceitful whilst the other is spineless.


  8. I hope you direct some of your venom at Wickham also


  9. We should address the point made by Wickham that Barbadians should not confuse the problem caused by illegal immigration and those caused by CSME.

    We believe that the compartmentalization of the issue does not move the matter forward. The large influx of immigrants into Barbados in recent years has created fears amongst the Barbadian population as similar events have done in other countries around the world. So let us disabuse ourselves that this is a Barbados problem ONLY.

    However now that we have the concerns of Barbadians interacting with the other issue of freedom of movement of CARICOM people this is where the problem looms for the regions policymakers. Barbadians cannot and should not disconnect the two issues.

    Already our government has been saying that our schools are overpopulated and some of the problem can be attributed to illegal immigration. We have a QEH under stress. Barbados in large measure has been built on the basis of free education which has allowed our people to manage our resources with prudence up to now. Any dumbing down of the system caused by Barbados being a warehouse for all the unskilled people of the other countries cannot be tolerated.

    We continue our call for a managed immigration policy.


  10. Mr. Wickam has lots of pretty words yet he himself readily admits that he can understand our bajans fear;

    Redds you and many more persons decide to turn a blind ear to facts I will not repeat those facts because i have mentioned them repeatedly. However, Mr. Wickam is more concerned about staying in the bread line.

    This is because his job is not being threatened; What about persons at the bottom of the scale who has been swept aside? You think that I scared of Wickham or anybody, pleaseeee, I am not paranoid when thousands of bajans agree with me!

    Additionally, now that the middle calss of society has started to feel the pinch, especially corporate Barbados, persons are now beginning to recognise and comprehend the disaster that is about to happen in Barbados.

    someone told me last night that not only the Guyanese are here but Jamaicans Trinidadians, and the list go on and they are not going back. They are now starting to affect the middle class ha ha ha ha! These are the same middle class who was saying that the artisans and labour force were hallucinating.

    I never thought that I would see the day that bajans are being Ostracized in their country. HELL IS GOING TO BREAK LOOSE YOU KNOW SOONER RATHER THAN LATER.

    THESE PEOPLE ONLY HIDING FOR NOW BUT LET THEM START TO GET MORE OF THEIR KIND!

    I telling you CAT PIST AND PEPPER!

    Young people aint standing for shite redds, believe it!


  11. If what BU has alleged that that joker Mr. Norman Faria has called for BU to be censored for giving vent to many of the legitimate frustrations and anxieties that huge throngs of Barbadians have about the fact that there are too many Indo-Guyanese presently in Barbados, then we have to make it unambiguously clear to him, or to any one else who may also be holding such a position, that we will NOT stand idly by and allow for the right of freedom of expression of Barbadians on such a serious and fundamental matter of national strategic and security importance to be helped curtailed by any persons – Barbadians or otherwise – who do NOT have the fundamental interest of this beloved country at heart.

    And, Faria, we are NOT being defensive about it either. As a matter of fact, we are so very pugnacious about this matter that our party will soon meet in caucus to seriously look at our response to the fact that there are too many Indo-Guyanese in Barbados. And, we are NOT mincing words or using any tactful language to give any subdued tone about our indignation towards this fundamental problem either. This malignancy of there being too many Indo-Guyanese is a very vexxed one, and is one that one way or another has to be solved. However, at the end of this caucus many Barbadians shall know what positions we have taken concerning this most troubling matter.

    Moreover, while we harbour NO hatred towards non-racist Indo-Guyanese visiting or working in Barbados, we have seen what has happened in esp. Guyana, Trinidad and Tobago, where Africans – who were the ones to be brutally enslaved centuries ago – were the ones that mercilessly toiled in the hot broiling sun under very cruel and inhuman conditions in the fields and the estates and in the factories in order to help build the foundations of these particular societies. It was they who really had built the material production foundations of these societies, and therefore it is they who are in need of the greatest rewards ever for doing so up to this day!!! It was only after Emancipation – we mean British Emancipation 1834 – that Indians were brought to those societies from India by the British colonialists – as INDENTURED LABOUR – NOT SLAVE LABOUR – at a time when global social, political and economic outlooks and conditions were modestly changing, a little for the better. Yes, they were brought for productive reasons but we strongly believe that they were mainly brought to the region for vicious divisive/divide and rule/destabilizing political reasons.

    And furthermore, since the early 1900s, Caribbean history has taught us that – because of those Indians having been introduced years ago into these societies – and very much with their ethno-cultures intact – the historical and social evolution of Trinidad and Tobago and Guyana has been one that has been centered on racial division and polarization, has been one that has seen racial and ethnic tensions and animosities unceasingly inflaming these societies, and has been one wherefore the political, productive, religious and social cultures of these societies have become so riven by racial considerations that these societies are so perennially unstable and rancorous. Would any rational reasonable Barbadians want these situations for our beloved country, now or in the forseeable future?? Uh??

    Finally, we have recently been told by a former parliamentarian how Mr. Eric Sealy years ago used to be on his political platforms and elsewhere railing against what he thought then was a problem of there being too many Indians visiting and staying in Barbados. Now, we have entered another dangerous phase of a very grave social political problem, with this time around – as compared to that time when Mr. Sealy was a political force – Barbados now being host to far more Indians than then – most of them now coming from Guyana – What a humiliation and disaster to see such a dangerous trajectory unfolding!!

    However, Make now doubt about it – the People’s Democratic Congress (PDC) and other Barbadians politically historically conscious enough to know what is going on with regard to the possible calamitious consequences for this country as a result of Barbadians allowing too many Indo-Guyanese here – SHALL NOT make the fundamental mistake that thousands upon thousands of Black Trinidad and Tobagonians and Guyanese made in allowing too many Indians into “their spaces”, and SHALL NOT allow our selves to later on become victims of an old treacherous colonial device of divide and rule, whether being now or later perpetrated on the country by some elite Barbadians and non-Barbadians in Barbados, by some political leaders in Barbados, or by some other Indians themselves who live here or elsewhere and who will have grand delusions about Indians taking over our Barbados – our BARBADOS!! NEVER NEVER EVER IN BARBADOS, ONCE WE ARE AROUND!! WE HAVE LEARNED FROM OUR HISTORY!! And to Faria, lay to HELL OFF the blogs!! TAKE YOUR DAMN PLACE !!

    PDC


  12. Very interesting and disturbing post.

    GUYANESE QUESTION
    -It isn’t only Barbados that has challenges with coping with the huge influx of other illegal Caribbean nationals like Guyanese. Look around the region.

    -Unfortunately because of General Orders, Barbados’ Immigration Department which really works hard @ protecting our borders (thank GOD!) seem to have their hands tied when it comes to defending themselves.

    Something about public awareness about what they REALLY deal with everyday needs to be done…and quickly. I know personally, that it goes way beyond stamping passports for these unsung/undervalued “civil servants” – their very lives do get threatened.

    -What would happen if controls AREN’T enforced? Colour me stupid, but what further impact will that have on sustaining our healthcare, environment and education?

    Has anyone noticed the change in the TYPE of crimes in the last few years?

    Is anyone aware that despite the headaches of World Cup, the B’dos Immigration Department did NOT receive a complaint?

    -Can anyone tell me including Mr. Faria (with his head up his a*@) WHY it is so easy to get replacement birth certificates and other important identification so EASILY from Guyana?

    CENSORING BLOGS?!!!
    -Ridiculous and backwards.

    Norman Faria doesn’t surprise me but Peter Wickham should know better.

    While I believe bloggers like other “writers” must understand their responsibility, they do have a right to express their opinion.

    People generally will separate the effective bloggers and/or content they share from the ones who are a waste of time.

    I’ve always known that people are leery of artists (and now bloggers).

    All I can say is people, understand your power and wield it wisely.

    Peace.


  13. There are many illegal immigrants from all over the Caribbean not only Guyana working in Barbados.I live near several construction sites and the variety of accents heard daily is amazing.
    Meanwhile our young able bodied men are content to sleep all morning , sell stolen local fruit , or illegal dvds , in Swan Street or beg for a few dollars.

    As for the Bajan middle class who sat by while Owen Arthur flooded this small island with Guyanese and said nothing , their time has come.

    Many Barbadians are unable to get jobs because local companies are applying for work permits for Trinidadians, Jamaicans , Dominicans anyone but a Bajan.Our own BNB has loans officers on work permits , from Guyana and Trinidad.Local subsidaries of regional companies are employing foreign sales reps on work permits to sell liquor and cigarettes.

    These people don’t care about this country , they are only here to benefit from the hard work of our fore parents.Guyanese send most of their money home and if they have to pay for anything they only patronize businesses which are owned by their countrymen.
    Barbados has become a free for all , free that is for everyone but Bajans , because we will pay for what is happening to our beloved country.


  14. I know at times we let emotions get in the way.

    I myself am guilty of this offence regularly, however, as David said we need stronger immigration policies and that is the bottom line.

    Persons in Britain are now crying fowl, it is total chaos all over the world. This is going to bring some serious unecessary conteptuous thoughts to persons who were docile and humble.

    I plead with our leaders to make sure they try to do something about this matter.

    At one point in time the persons who were seen as the lower class in society when they were crying fowl every body claimed that they were paranoid and xenophobic then it moved on to the artisans they were also seen as Xenophobic and not wanting to work. We heard things such as that we should have a better working attitude in this country.

    But now it is the middle class’s turn and they not taking this thing likely;

    My question is why did it have to go so far, didnt people realise that this was an accident waiting to happen.

    All that was required of government,was to implement proper migration policies.

    We have found ourselves in a mess! a total mess!

    I am getting so weary of this situation I dont know what will happen next!


  15. http://migration.ucdavis.edu

    Here’s a decent discussion forum on the global migration issue.


  16. David/and BU bloggers

    Please go to kaeitur news on the side bar under newspapers and read an article there titled;Elected dictatorship and indians like my me written by a guyanese east indian coulmunist – I’m not sure if he is Freddie Kisson.

    Very interesting article,and while there have a look at the unfair trial of Oliver Hinckson a former soldier and what is happening to the black people there in guyana by the racist,corrupt basdeo jagdeo government – of course shy princess easily forgets this and is on the side of her indo guyanese counterpart satyendra now that she is safely ensonced in barbados.

    Hinckson was granted bail for what is a bailable offence,yet the persons to recieve his bail document all disappeared from the office until late in the afternoon when the A.G. an east indian reversed the decision of the magistrate (a ms Robertson – an afro guyanese).When the High court reversed the decision the court process workers all reurned magically to their office.

    So Mr Hinckson – an afro guyanese never got to enjoy any period of bail.

    My heart goes out to him,and even the indian journalist writing in the Kaeitur news said he was ashamed as an east indian – of the basdeo government for how they are treating this man .

    I don’t know if any of the BU family has been listening to the debate today in the senate – but listening to a clip on the luch time news minister of immigration Ms Maxine Mcclean seemed to have been discussing the immigration issue and the overhaul to come as well as an increase in the number of immigration officers.

    That’s a good start but I WANT TO SEE SOME MASSIVE DEPORTATIONS OF THESE ILLEGALS.

    It’s about time something is done – and guyana and basdeo jagdeo has already been forewarned by prime minister Thompson.


  17. Some new faces and voices are now raisisng their heads at government institutions and I have friends who have been trying for years to get a government job. Ms. McClean what are you doing about this problem. We voted for change this is not good enough.

    This is an alert please let us be vigilant and see how many foreigners get NHC Units that bajans for 15 years or more were waiting for. One must remember that an Indian has been appointed as part of that Board. WATCH THIS BAJANS.

    The Owen Arthur administration has squandered our birth rights people.


  18. I am following with great interest the case involving Mr OliverHinckson .This man is charged with Sedition.It is alleged that he made remarks in support of “fineman” Rollins and his socalled gang..There is even a conspiracy to link him with the same gang.After months of court appearances no credible evidence could be found and yet this man who served in the Guyana Defence Force is still lock up.People are asking why we blacks in Barbados should not be concern with these detestable indo guyanese in Barbados
    It is interesting that Shyprincess,Satyendra,Passin Through South,Centipede,Ian Walcott,Chris Halsall and the rest have not responded to many of the excellent questions you Anonymous have asked.Also many good queations from JC,The Scout,and Yours Truly.Are they running scare?

    I listened to the debate in the Senate and I admired Maxine McClean comments.Kerry Simmons made me nauseous listening to the junk that came out his mouth.This BLP bunch is a shameful lot that should never nevr be given the chance to rule Barbados again.This clown Kerry Simmons is begging this government to tighten up and give our immmigration and customs officers more resources to effectively manage this illegal immigration isssue.You believe he has the gall to say that.
    Kerry Simmons shame on you.
    YOUR ARE A POLITICAL NUISANCE


  19. Prime Minister Thompson has an opportunity to leave his legacy with this immigration issue especially with the Guyanese. I can understand if they were in Barbados and keeping their asses quiet. Oh no!!!. They are causing social decay in this country. I was home recently and what I noticed is that some of them are trying to scam Barbadians and tourists alike. I was in Cave Shepherd shopping and this Guyanese woman who thought I was non-Barbadian came up to me trying to pull a scam on me. The cashier was a little concerned because she thought I was going to fall for it. When the woman heard a few choice Bajan words coming from my mouth she took off. The cashier told me that this is the type of nuisance that they have to contend with on a daily basis. I am sure that the Guyanese who are contributing to the social decay are in the minority but they are creating havoc. AND YOU NORMAN FARIA ALL OVER THE RADIO AND IN THE PRESS TALKING SHITE ALL THE TIME? CHECK OUT THE GOV’T OF GUYANA FIRST BEFORE YOU CRITISE ANYTHING BARBADIAN.


  20. @Negroman…

    To address your above…

    I cannot speak for the others named, but personally… No, I am not “running scared”.

    Many of the Arts teach that it is better to walk away than to fight. Particularly if those trying to start a fight are no match; are not at the same level…

    But to speak directly to you, I do note that *you* did not respond to my post of 2008.07.14.1806 wherein I wrote, again, specifically to you: “Please, if I may ask, speak to the question of what is happening in Africa. No one is scared of Black advancement. Any enlightened human welcomes it.”

    I present this again; please speak *directly* to this. And please note this is in direct response to your posting of 2008.07.14.1805, which was directed directly to me.

    Please do not raise other examples of unrest from other regions, in a distractionary manner. This is a simple question, which you should be able to address directly.

    It is an important question. I do find it interesting that *no* *one* has addressed it.

    Namaste all….


  21. Chris Halsall what a feeble attempt to respond to me.The snobbery in your remarks will not affect me.
    In response to your quetion on the conflicts in Africa. I mentioned on another topic that stinking white euoropeans clonists are responsible for the majority of conflicts in Africa.Example the conflict between the Hutus and Tutsis in Burundi.The Dutch colonists divided those two groups.The colonists favoured the light skin Tutsis above the darker Hutus.The Dutch colonists allowed the Tutsis to oppressed the Tutsis .That is the real reason for the conflict between those two groups.I could highlight more examples.The point is the nasty,despicable,wicked racist and murderous europeans are RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CONFLICTS IN AFRICA TODAY.
    DISPUTE IT


  22. Chris Halsall
    You said ..”.*no* *one* has addressed it*”

    The question being: “please, if I may ask, speak to the question what is hapening in Africa. No enlightened human welcomes it”

    The question is “nebulous” it has no specific definition, are you referring to:
    Politics
    Climate
    Elections
    Education
    Racial Conflict
    Indians

    Africa is a large continent, within the context of this debate , be specific. I await your response.

  23. Roscoe Jenkin Avatar

    It is unfortunate that every time a Barbadian raises the issue of immigration reform and the concerns that we have about ‘floods’ of non-nationals entering our borders Mr. Faria or other un-‘enlightened’ native starts dribbling at the jaws sputtering ‘xenophobia, xenophobia, xenophobia, and again xenophobia’. Even Sir Roy jumped on the bandwagon a short while ago. We were concerned for a long time, and our Prime Minister at the time said to shut up, ‘those people build good cuoboards, look at mine’. the fact of the matter really is that a lot of business persons (large and small) are the ones encouraging the weekly landing of Guyanese (both endo and negro) to cut payroll costs by paying them shite money.

    If you look around in certain places early in the morning, you would see the convergence of Guyanese waiting for their transportation to take them to various site (and not all are construction) to work. The former PM did not only import tons of Guyanese, but also baskets of Chinese. There is nothing wrong with looking for a better life in another country, many Barbadians havae done throughout our history. But only an Ass would encourage emmigration to his country to the detriment of his countrymen. Hundrends of thousands dollars are filtered out of Barbados monthly and not all of is in wallets or carry-on bags, nor by non-nationals either. But thats a whole other issue which I don’t need to elaborate on. Despite the anti-money laundering and other legislation, its quite easy for anyone to open a bank account in Barbados.

    Keep the peace
    -Roscoe Jenkins


  24. @Yardbroom…

    My post of 2008.07.14.1757 made indirect reference to “passin through south”‘s comment of 2008.07.14.1723.

    So, to speak to the ambiguity which might exist within my above, I was referring to the (intra)racial conflicts within many of the countries of Africa, without Indian presence.

    My (true) apologies for not being clear.

    @Negroman…

    I’m still working on my response to your last. Please stand by…

    Kindest regards to all….


  25. Roscoe Jenkiins I heard a little of what you were talking about, however unlike you I am not that familiar with the topic so I cannot make a comment.

    However, I know for a fact that the ministryof education is in the practice of writing schools in Barbados and ‘DEMAND’ the headteacher to install this illegal child into our classrooms. Moreover a desk and chair must be bought for this illegal immigrant’s child.

    Additionally, when you a BARBADIAN goes to that SAME school QUESTIONING the availability of space for your child you hear a resounding NO MORE ROOM SORRY!

    You think these things are fair.

    I know for a fact that they are many unidentified bodies who have died from HIV AIDS and no one has or can claim the bodies since they are foreigners; hence we the tax payers of this country have to pay the bill!

    And then people talk about xenophobia PLEASE!

    What about talking about unfair, this is shite!

    GET THESE PEOPLE OUT! For approximately 9 months we were hearing how this will happen and that will happen and nothing but alotta long talk!~

    Do something yeah!


  26. @Yardbroom…

    I just realized you misquoted me… I have found this is a common technique in confusing important issues.

    Let me please correct the record:

    You quoted me as saying “please, if I may ask, speak to the question what is hapening in Africa. No enlightened human welcomes it”.

    *My* self quote was: “Please, if I may ask, speak to the question of what is happening in Africa. No one is scared of Black advancement. Any enlightened human welcomes it.”

    Again, just for the record (as the “record” is important…)

  27. Roscoe Jenkin Avatar

    JC, what you are saying is true. Just last week the Gentleman fron St. James North was pushing the agenda for free education for illegal children (achor-babies in the US), at our expense. But you what is the most unfortunate thing? They don’t taxes or NIS, so not only are they taking our jobs, but they are also taking advantage of our hard earned taxes that we pay. We are literally carrying them on our already aching backs.

    This is a heavy and unneccessary burden to bear.

    -Roscoe Jenkins


  28. @ Chris Halsall

    Conflicts occur in India without Africans being there as they occur in African without Indians being there. Most bloggers take exception to your comment: “…no enlightened human welcomes it.” The undercurrent of your message was clear.

    “Homo sapiens has been learning about conflict since its orign as a species. That knowledge, then, is not a neat, concentrated package ready to be passed along or handed down. It is spread across humanity. It resides wherever humans live, work and play. It is what we call “folk knowledge,” used continuously in everyday life, in every society…in commerce, family relations, government, sport child rearing.”

    Such events as the Napoleonic Wars and the revolutions of 1848 brought conflict and violence on a scale not imagined before,”

    Twentieth century technology and bureaucratic organization permitted leaders of modern states to take Napoleon’s total war methods to undreamed extremes. The culminating events in World War 2…the incineration, vaporization, and extermination of millions of humans.”

    There have been conflicts in Nicaragua, Guatemala, Bosnia, Sri Lanka Iraq and elsewhere.

    Have we forgotten the collapse of the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia, both of which were followed by ethnic conflicts that escalated to violence and civil war.

    “What about Pol Pot and the Khymer Rouge. During his time in power the combined effect of slave labour, malnutrition poor medical care and executions had an estimated death toll of 750, 000 to 1.7 million ( approximately 26% of the then population) at that time.

    The point I have made is that in every continent “HUMAN BEINGS” have killed each other on a massive scale and will do so in the future unenlightened as it is. It is often more clinical and at arms length than in Africa but the end result is the same.

    African has not got a monopoly on killing in conflict for race or ethnicity the figures do not bear that out.

    PS: I must apologize now as I will not respond to this specific, which I consider off thread. Now let us get back to illegal immigration.


  29. @Yardbroom…

    I hope you understand you are taking my attention away from my response to Negroman.

    I have observed this before, but never realized I might find myself in the middle of such a situation…

    First I am misquoted. And then I am attacked for the misquote. Gosh, one might even conclude that my words mean something… (I’m not worthy….)

    Quoting your (misquote) immediate above:

    Yardbroom wrote: Most bloggers take exception to your comment: “…no enlightened human welcomes it.” The undercurrent of your message was clear.

    @Yardbroom: again: *I* never said that. *You* misquoted me saying that. And then immediately attacked me for doing so…

    Let me again, please, put on the record…

    *I* said: “Please, if I may ask, speak to the question of what is happening in Africa. No one is scared of Black advancement. Any enlightened human welcomes it.”

    May we (and obviously we do) live in interesting times… (As an aside, this is actually a very old Chinese curse…)

    Namaste all….


  30. David // July 16, 2008 at 7:06 am

    We should address the point made by Wickham that Barbadians should not confuse the problem caused by illegal immigration and those caused by CSME.

    =================================
    This is most interesting. At one time Peter Wickham shared the same view as Owen Arthur with regards to CSME , which he stated acknowledged and legitimized the movement of skill labour under it five catergories, and not doing anything for unskilled labour, as been elitists, and disadvantaging poor people across the community. Now he is trying to seperate out the two, which they are by suggesting that we are somehow confusing the two. Wow peter wickham is behind what is driving the concerns of Barbadians regarding both, and this is so because he would rather spend his time telling us what he thinks and what we should think. They are concerns about both but they are very different Peter, and it is very obvious that you are confuse about that. But all in all Peter Wickham is on record for stating that he has little regards for Borders. This lack of regard is the single most reason why he should not and cannot direct let alone lead the debate and engage the thoughts of Barbadian on Immigration. He clearly has an belief at his core that can never reach a compromise with the rest of us. The only other person that i have heard state very clearly and very matter of fact that they are against borders is known US immigration lawyer Roger Sidi, who started the www. guyanayusa.org website. He clearly admitted his bias.

    Mr. Sidi being an average white american guy of european decent, having never visited Guyana took to helping illegal Guayanese in NA diaspora gain their us citizenship, said one thing to me that stuck with me. When I asked him his opinion of Guyanese in the Diaspora, said he notice that Guyanes muslims hang with other muslims, Guyanese blacks hangs with everbody and Guyanese of Hindu origins stuck to themselves since it seems to him that they were not accepted by those from the Motherland India.


  31. Somebody should try to find out if Norman Faria is trying to destabilize Barbados

    was Norman Faria on Tom Adams’ hit-list at some point in time ?

    what is FARIA ‘S OBJECTIVE ?

    Target FARIA
    ALL THREATS TO BARBADOS to be monitored


  32. I hesitate to dip my toe into this thread but I suppose devils must go where angels fear to tread!

    I attended the presentation last night and must concur with most of the opinions about the film that have been expressed on this thread. Frankly the film was boring and did not have a clear thesis.

    It was a disingenuous presentation in that it suggested that CSME is inextricably bound to free movement of labour. Well as one commentator said, the free movement of all labour was NOT envisaged under the protocols establishing the CSME. Very specific categories of persons are listed under the protocols and clearly there is an administrative structure in place that deals with such persons. If that is not managed migration then tell me what is? So it can be argued that calls to put in place appropriate controls on ALL OTHER CATEGORIES of migrants to Barbados really have nothing to do with CSME but relate to the orderly mangement of immigration and the maintenace of our security and way of life.

    Even Wickham seemed to miss this point that the success of the CSME does not hinge on the free movement of prostitutes! While there was little news reportage on the discussions at the Caricom Heads of Government meeting, I am confused that even the HOG seemed to be jumping the gun and making the same mistake.

    The influx of migrants to B’dos have nothing to do with CSME. It is in response to the development activity peculiar to Barbados. The movement of those categories of persons under CSME is permitted in pursuance of pan Caribbean investment by companies and those agencies (UWI, RNM, CDB etc) which are involved in regional affairs. Individuals whose expertise is critical to such pan Caribbean investment was thus also allowed free movement.

    The migrants to Barbados are here for very local reasons not in support of say Guyanese investment in a manufacturing plant. These people are here because there is a perceived shortage of say cane cutters or masons or whatever. If we determine that the situation is bordering on the chaotic and we further determine that it is necessary to bring order then there really can be no argument and it certainly does not abrogate our responsibilties under the CSME.


  33. @ROBOT…

    Your above could be considered a threat to many…

    Do you *really* want that kind of attention focused here? *Think* about this…

    You all think you are posting here without recourse. (IMHO) You all *so* don’t understand where you find yourselves…

    As a hint, where do you think the server [somename].wordpress.com resides? Do you think they are as incompetent, and as impotent, as a certain Caribbean ISP?

    Again, for your own self interests, *think* about this….


  34. Chris Halsall you know that this man is threatening our way of life? this man is threatening BAJANS and ordering them to SHUT UP OR ELSE!

    He crazy? I dont like this at all. I had a headache from last night because I cannot unerstand for the life of me WHY we would allow this man to say that the media should be censored! You educate persons through the media of the happenings within one’s country and so on (thank God for BU)!

    What foolishness is this!

    Why dont you beg faria to cool it.

    We could never go to Guyana or any other place and do this.

    Do you understand that we who have watched our foreparents struggle will not give up thsi little precious piece of rock. We are not GOING anywhere simple!


  35. I am personally for Caribbean integration etc BUT…..a BIG, BIG BUT….Barbados is a sovereign nation and as contradictory as it may sound, I will fight tooth and nail against any politician or leader who will seek to change our national status and constitutional arrangements WITHOUT THE DIRECT AND EXPLICIT APPROVAL OF THE CITIZENS (i.e by referendum). For example, I was against the manner in which B’dos removed the Privy Council and adopted the CCJ as our final court of appeal (and I detest being associated with the British monarchy and any remnant of the colonial administration).

    If the majority of Barbadians express a desire to “go it alone” apart from Caricom then so be it.


  36. We listened to some of the debate with interest in the Senate today. What is clear is that there is a clear separation in approaches to the issue of managed immigration. While the DLP side, and Senator McClean was very clear through her use of simple language to explain the issues, appear to have a view aligned with BU and family, the BLP appear to be caught up in the idea that we should adopt a more relaxed position given the importance of immigration to CSME and CARICOM.

    The BLP was at pain to highlight the enormous beneficial interest Barbados has in the success of CARICOM and should not seek to rock the boat by sending the wrong signal to CARICOM.


  37. It is most unusual for a Consul ( representative) in a country; to adopt such a prominent position in the affairs of state in a Democratic country, particularly in a friendly country.

    Is he a member of a political party?

    I find it strange that a consul should be engaging in activities which could be considered political rather than being a representative of his government and his countrymen.

    If it is that his activities can be seen as against the host nation, it might become necessary to withdraw his accreditation. It cannot be diplomatic for a Consul to be seen or perceived by the majority of the resident population to be acting in an “unfriendly” way against the State.

    The basis on which I have asserted the above, is on the official function of a Consul:

    “The tittle Consul is used for the official representatives of the government of one state in the territory of another, normally acting to assist and protect the citizens of the Consul’s own country, and to facilitate trade and friendship between the people of the country to whom he or she is accredited and the country of which he /she is a representative.

    I put it to you that that the “core” requirement “friendship between the people of the country” is not being undertaken in this regard. I put it to you the opposite is happening.


  38. For the record…

    Humm… Yardbroom, and for that matter BU, simply ignore my catching him trying to distort the record…

    As Laurie Anderson once said, in “Kokoku”: “Keep cool. Maybe if we pretend this never happened, they’ll all just go away….”

    With kindest regards to all…


  39. If I May please quote Laurie Anderson, my personal favourite artist…

    “I come very briefly to this place. I watch it move. I watch it shake. kumowaku yamano. watashino sakebi. watashino koewo. ushano kokoku. watashiwa sokoni. watashiwa asobu. mountain with clouds.
    . my voice. home of the brave. I’m here now. and lost. they say the dead will rise again. and here they come now. strange animals out of the ice age. and they stare at you. dumbfounded. like big
    Akes. and we say: keep cool. maybe if we pretend this never happened, they’ll all just go away. watashiwa sokoni. watashiwa asobu. mewotoji. mewotoji. kikunowa kotori. watashino sakebi. watashin
    Wo. I am here in this place. losing. my eyes are closed. closed. birds are there. hearing something. shouting. my voice. (and yet, we could all be wrong. wouldn’t be the first time.) kumowaku ya
    Watashiwa sokoni. watashiwa asobu. kumiwaku yamano. kikunowa kotori. watashino sakebi. mountains with clouds. I am there. lost. mountains with clouds. birds are there. hearing something. a shou
    Ey say the world is smaller n
    Ow. small world. they say that man is taller now. tall man. they say the stars are closer now. thank you, lucky stars. you come very briefly to this place. jikanwa tomaru. ushano kokoku. time is
    Ped. home of the brave. and on a very distant star, slimy creatures scan the skies. they’ve got plates for hands. and telescopes for eyes. and they say: look! down they say: watch it move. watch
    Hake. watch it turn. and shake. watashiwa sokoni. watashiwa asobu. kumowaku yamano. watashino sakebi. watashino koewo. mewotoji. mewotoji. I am there. lost. mountains with clouds. a cry. a shout
    Eyes are shut. shut. and we say: watch us move. watch us shake. we’re so pretty. we’re so pretty. we say: watch us move now. watch us shake. we’re so pretty. shake our hands. shake our heads. we
    E our feet. we’re so fine. the way we move. the way we shake. we’re so nice.


  40. I heard o the news tonight senator benn saying that they should register all guyanese coming in so as to know who is here and who has left.

    This is really a lotta long talk.

    Since the very senators themselves said in the debate today that when these guyanese come in they give one address at the immigration and then they cannot be found there.

    Why there fore not move to the obvious step – fingerprinting – most nations have already moved to that position.

    Registering guyanese will not stop them from giving wrong addresses and hiding out.

    This is the time for bajans to be calling the immigration and alerting them of places where illegal guyanese and other illegals are hiding out.


  41. David

    Reading your post about the two strikingly different immigration positions of the BLP and the DLP in the senate debate – it has given me cause for serious pause.

    You see David it has brought home sharply to me how we have escaped quasi armaggaedon that would surely have visited us if the BLP were voted back in.

    When you hear evry BLP member of parliament – they speak with one voice on this issue – that is,this free flow of immigration must be allowed to continue and further we should allow them to enjoy the social services which we work so hard to pay for.

    This is why as a people we must never allow the BLP back in power for a very long,long time.

    Despite all that bajans were saying on the radio,on the blogs,in the newspapers,in the streets aboutnthis unchecked migration and the negative effects it was having – the BLP parliamentarians acted as though we the people are invisible – or our voices are silent.

    They are hell bent on destroying this country with these illegal immigrants.


  42. Yardbroom – you took the exact words right out of my mouth.

    If it is true that Faria has requested the B’dos gov’t to – what was the word – “muzzle” the blogs, then he has seriously overstepped his bounds in performing his role as Consul for Guyana in Barbados. He is getting involved in the politics of this country. He wants to dictate the Immigration laws and regulations pertaining to visiting Guyanese to this country. He is giving his opinion, offering unsolicited, undesired advice and issuing instructions to the government of the host country on how the host country should enforce their immigration policies and what the citizens of this country may and may not say.

    Has a complaint been made to the leader of Guyana that his consul is interfering in the internal policies of this country? If not, why not?

    If he is not recalled or put out, perhaps it is time for the consul and other Guyanese like him to set an example for their fellow countrymen and return to Guyana voluntarily. Take all their illegals with them – the prostitutes, the unskilled labour and all their children. There they will be able to offer all the advice they wish, muzzle whomever they wish and use all their policy making talents and other talents to make Guyana into the country it should be.

    Barbados is only 166 sq. miles and struggling. Guyana has more than enough space for its citizens. We don’t. And no – I am not zenophobic!

    How dare Faria tell this government to


  43. Sorry, guess the word is “censored” and not “muzzled”.


  44. Barbados is one of the most densely populated Islands in the Caribbean.

    Why should we allow a freeflow of immigrants into the Island?

    Also, it is the responsibility of the Guyanese Government to run their country in a manner that will create enough employment for their own peoople.

    Simplistic but reasonable.

    I sincerely hope that the GOB is paying serious attention to Sewage treatment in Barbados.
    More people more excrement of epedemic proportions.


  45. Barbados, let Palestine be your example.


  46. Many of the BU family failed to mention that a VOB moderator Marsha (with a double barrel name) went to the microphone last night. She was the person who kept notes on her phone. She made relevant points consistent with several BU commenters. What we have found to be interesting is the on air views of media practioners totally conflict with personal.

    Makes us go ummmmmmmm


  47. Maybe Mr. Faria is voicing the opinion of the Guyanese government and the guyanese living in Barbados, which is shut up and get out.

    This situation has reached worrisome proportions, there is not an organization or place in Barbados that you call where you do not hear a guyanese voice, there is not a street, store, government dept that you go to that you don’t see a guyanese, they are now in our schools and all over.

    Perhaps one might not mind them so much if they were adding value to the country, but the women are single handedly responsible for destroying marriages and families in this country.

    The men bring another dimension to violence, drunkenness and disorderly behaviour. I have had a few interactions with guyanese and foolishly I tried to take the high road and say that everyone should be judged on their merit, sorry to say I am now a firm believer in stereo typing a guyanese is a guyanese wherever their are and will do any foul thing – I mean any foul thing to cement their position here in Barbados.

    It is time for us to get serious about our Immigration laws, and how guyanese and Jamaican women are granted status in this country, how they are integrated in to society and if they can give something positive for once to this country.

    We need to act and and act like last month.


  48. The Nation newspaper makes for interesting reading today doesn’t it? Looks like the main press is jumping on the band wagon of popular opinion.

    It was pleasing to hear Prime Minister Thompson raise the question of planned migration among his CARICOM colleagues, which we hope was a precursor to his Government’s intention to pay closer attention to migration here. We also hope something similar to the “points” system adopted elsewhere will be adopted locally.

    The recent “open door” migration policy was sure to give birth to social dislocation – something we can ill afford.

    Full Article


  49. For Your Information (FYI)

    Mr. Faria is an Honorary Consul and not a full Consul. He is a Barbadian by birth – one of his parents is Guyanese. Maybe he will have to emigrate to Guyana after this is all over…. LOL

    Mr. Faria is NOT liked by most Guyanese here and there have been many attempts to have him replaced – with no success… he is a communist with fascist tendencies and emulates the PPP Guyana government which also has the same tendencies (they systematically repress and eliminate media and persons who criticise the way they run Guyanastan)

    The Government of Barbados should request his replacement by the Foreign Office in Guyana….for getting involved in requesting the muzzling of blogs and other controversial issues releted to the governance of Barbados…. but I doubt they would replace him unless the situation gets really hot… like it is now!

    While at it get rid of Ricky Singh – The Jagdeo apologist as well.,,, who supports muzzling the press that criticizes Jagdeo .. although he will deny it.

    There has to be some clearer understanding and agreement and clear implementation plan by the Barbadian government, as to how they would handle immigration. However with Mr. Faria sniping from the sidelines I think that tempers are being raised and in the end all Guyanese will suffer, and maybe some Barbadians as well.

    Peace! and Love!


  50. I know some of you bloggers are wondering why no comments from me. The truth is, I’m tired blogging on this subject. Robot, don’t you see, yes that Norman Fartier is trying desperately to cause a disturbance in this country. You people seem to have short memories, I told you only a few weeks ago that this is the way the scrip will play out. When they see that they are on the losing end, they would destablise this country and hurt our tourist industry. I would say this again, if this happens we’re doomed. We would fall farther down than guyana and these same guyanese would move out and try the same thing somewhere else. I am afraid, there is too much talk and no action, every day that passes makes it that much more difficult. i like what I hear from the senate yesterday but I think that by year end MASSIVE damage can or will be done to this country by these people. Only if you knew who lives in this country.

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