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Flyovers Or Not

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Flyovers recommended for Warrens Roundabout by a BU commenter

Should we state the obvious by reiterating that the views expressed on BU are entirely ours and ours ONLY? Sometimes we think it is necessary to reinforce this view so that it puts what we say in perspective.  We don’t want to set false expectations although we feel flattered at times when we read some of the feedback we have been getting.

Going back to one of our favourite topics, why did we get the feeling that on assuming the reigns of government the Democratic Labour Party (DLP) would have halted the flyover part of the Operation Free Flow project? We attended many of the political meetings leading up to the last general election, we read many of the writings of the DLP surrogates, we listened to the call-in programs and we felt sure that on January 16, 2008, 3S Barbados would have received a clear directive on the Operation Free Flow Project. Is this a facile position for the BU household to hold?

Imagine our great surprise after reading what the Minister of Communications and Works had to say in today’s daily newspaper. To summarize the Nation report in a few words, he told Barbados that the decision on whether the government would go forward with flyovers is pending! Given the frenzy of the debate about this issue which was generated during the general election how should we take Minister John Boyce’s statement?

Surely if Prime Minister Thompson’s government continues with the Operation Free Flow project in its original form, would Barbadians be left to wonder what the ‘hullalaboo’ was all about?

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39 responses to “Flyovers Or Not”

  1. Tell me Why Avatar
    Tell me Why

    As I keep saying, Barbados do not need Flyovers. The problem is not the north/south movement, but the arteries leading to the urban areas. We are seeing a smoother movement within the dual carriageway area, but it is hampered by the ridiculous snail pace on the Life of Barbados end which hamper vehicles from the Warners area from the south and from Bussa on the North. It will cost the taxpayers lest money to post two police officers at the six (6) problematic roundabouts for the two-hour gridlocks on mornings (Mon-Fri).

    This is a question which both Governments are avoiding. Where is the EIA study that should have been made public for nearly two-years. The draft which comprised pages of repeated information with no real substance and which was made available at the SJPP, and then we were told of a Town Hall meeting for residents that will be affected by these unnecessary monstrosities which was advertised to be held and canceled without an apologies.

    Other instance is the Hillis Carnes, the geotechnical consultant who first submitted a report 1n the middle of June 2006 about our decaying limestone and the flyover being built on our water table and gullies? Yet, in a later statement last year, the same Hillis Carnes said that Barbados’ infrastructure can accommodate flyovers. I hereby ask, which of the two reports should Barbadians believe? These reports should be in the hands of Minister Boyce.

    Another problem is the long delay in the Life of Barbados section. This is unacceptable. And don’t come with the flimsy excuse of Land Acquisition in this equation. Three years is far too long for such excuse. Should we presume that the contractor working on this section can not handle the job?. How come COW is section is far advanced on this project. Why can the Life of Barbados section be given to COW with immediate effect.

    Will 3s SRL, the main contractor made to pay for these unnecessary delays? Should Rayside forfeit a part of their payment for slow and poor workmanship? Will Barbadian have to suffer for such grave mistakes? Should our grand children made to repay this BOLT agreement for 25 years with the knowledge of increase interest rates and uncertainty of our dollar?

  2. David Avatar
    David

    Tell me why we are sure that you are aware that a contract is a legally binding arrangment. How can government set aside the contract with Rayside without fallout?

  3. Centipede Avatar
    Centipede

    So the decision on the ‘fly overs’ is pending. Hmmmmm. So was the decision NOT to use the Greenland site as a dump….

  4. Wishing in Vain Avatar
    Wishing in Vain

    I doubt very much that there will be a flyover aspect to this road works program.
    Actually the likes of the main scamps in this project, Steven Hobson, Hallam Nicholls, Danos and Bizzy Williams must be somewhat concerned and hoping the the PM does not order another audit to find out how the taxpayers money could have been wasted as they weere wasting it, a very sad state of affairs with this project.
    It is high time some of those involved in these scams are sent before the courts and I am sure they will eventually face the courts.

  5. robin hood Avatar
    robin hood

    Has anything in Barbados changed from being the usual “nine-days wonder”?

  6. Knight of the Long Knives Avatar
    Knight of the Long Knives

    I am a DLP supporter and are very concerned that the government seems to be continuing all the policies of the previous administration. Did they not understand we want change? Whats next the promised immigration reform goes through the eddoes as well. Have the allready lost touch with the masses. We do not appreciate paying the burdensome taxes, duties VAT to have our money frittered away. LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE MR THOMPSON.

  7. ABC Avatar
    ABC

    Tell me why, the flyovers are designed to benefit eactly what you are discussing.

    By having traffic that moves along the highway elevated over the roundabouts, the capacity of those roundabouts is freed up for the arteries that cross the highway. This makes it easier and quicker for traffic to cross the highway.

    The problem has never been the amount of traffic alogn the highway and the benefits that people are now perceiving when they drive along the double lane road hides the fact that you still have to slow down and in most cases stop at the roundabouts.

    The flyovers should be built and I’d bet that they will with only minor modifications from the current scope.

    The reason why everyone that replies to me will disagree is that the ministry and former government has never explained the benefits to the average road user. Having been involved in the project early on, I was fortunate to have it explained to me by a traffic engineer. The PM and new minister will benefit from this type of explanation and a reasonable person would have to agree unless they determine the cost too excessive. Which it may be now given the price of steel.

    And David, it is not going to resemble that picture – in fact I would agrue that the flyovers will look far more aesthetically pleasing than most urban areas of Barbados.

  8. Intern Avatar
    Intern

    GOB should consider flyovers carefully however I believe there is need for some form of flyover. The numbers of flyovers wanted by last govt may not be necessary but I can see where serious bottlenecks on new highway will occur if flyovers are not erected. I am late for work everday as a result of confusion and gridlock on four lane ABC.

  9. Me Avatar
    Me

    LOl

    Change LOL wunnah wanted change LOL….

    True change would be if wunnah voted for David Commissiong!

  10. Tell me Why Avatar
    Tell me Why

    By having traffic that moves along the highway elevated over the roundabouts, the capacity of those roundabouts is freed up for the arteries that cross the highway. This makes it easier and quicker for traffic to cross the highway.
    ……………………………………………………………………..
    Let me state for the final time. These ramps will not solve the congestion with vehicles going towards the city. Take for instance the area going down by Wildey, vehicles are backed up from the Shell Wildey Gas Station right down to Fairchild Street in the city. The same problem occur by the Bussa Statue where vehicles are backed up by Llaro Court right down to Roebuck Street and on to St. Mary’s Row in the city. The other arteries like The Belle, Warrens have the same problems with vehicles trying to get into the city. Now tell me Mr. ABC, please tell me how these miniature ramps will solve the movement leading to the city. Forget the smooth passage to the northern/southern side where cross country can solve that problem.
    Remember, the ABC Highway is a partition dividing the urban and rural area.

    Next, I will deal with solutions.

  11. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    Well I sure dont know which roads you guys travel on daily but for me a flyover is needed at every roundabout from Warrens Motors to Bussa.
    Not to mention turning some roads into one way.

    Tell Me Why….I was critical about the whole project but the fact that I can now get from Lodge Terrace to Sully shop for a rum’n’coke in 8 min, means a hell of a lot to me.

  12. peltdownman Avatar
    peltdownman

    When you actually look at what happens at each of the roundabouts, the congestion is caused by some very bad road planning close by. At Bussa, there is International Mall causing total chaos on the roundabout. At Hothersal, we have the bizarre situation wher a main highway actually has to take a right turn across another road. At Warrens – well, it needs no explanation. Even a flyover at Warrens will not solve the congestion problems there, because so many vehicles will be leaving the highway to use the main shopping and restaurant areas. Tell me why is correct, the real congestion is nowhere near the highway.

  13. Tell me Why Avatar
    Tell me Why

    Tell me why we are sure that you are aware that a contract is a legally binding arrangment. How can government set aside the contract with Rayside without fallout?
    ……………………………………………………………………..
    A MoU is basically a gentleman’s agreement that can bind players once signing encompass both parties. It is different to the usual contract, and it can be put into effect (“enter into force”) without requiring parliamentary ratification.

    In the case of Rayside, the MoU should not interfere with them or COW, since these are only sub-contractors answerable to the main contractor 3s Barbados SRL. In that case, Rayside contract can be rescinded since the MoU have nothing to do with them. The contract can be stopped once flaws in the quality of work can be established by the main contractor or the entity responsible for the BOLT agreement. In this case, it will be BNB bank. That do not mean that the Government who is the owner of the property where construction is taking place.

  14. Tell me Why Avatar
    Tell me Why

    Tell Me Why….I was critical about the whole project but the fact that I can now get from Lodge Terrace to Sully shop for a rum’n’coke in 8 min, means a hell of a lot to me.
    ……………………………………………………………………..
    With the road widening almost completed, reaching these areas could be solved by the placement of police officers at these round abouts. Again, the delay might be able to prolong your life.

  15. Tell me Why Avatar
    Tell me Why

    The other solution is the ‘park and ride’ system for school children.

    First of all, during vacations the roads leading into urban Barbados are empty.

    On school days, parents traverse the urban area to drop off school children. Let’s look at Charles F. Brome school. I can say without doubt, that over 100 cars turn into this school to drop off children. Springer Secondary is on this same stretch at again we are looking at another 100 cars dropping off children. Two schools and we are looking at over 200 cars whose owners could have been at their desk doing work and increasing productivity.

    What can be done is simple coordination and communication with parents. Why not set up individual drop-off/pick-up areas for schools and allow shuttle vehicles to transport these children to the school. These drop off areas can be manned by security personnel and patrolled by police officers and be equipped with washrooms and snacks. I am looking at a 7 a.m to 9 a.m on mornings and from 2.30 p.m to 6 p.m.

  16. Tell me Why Avatar
    Tell me Why

    Another effective system to ease the traffic gridlock is placing officers to check vehicles and presto, the roads are free to travel.

  17. Intern Avatar
    Intern

    If we take your advice Tell Me Why we have to double numbers in RBPF. The hard working small pay police already have their work cut out chasing drug dealers and the assorted criminals surfacing by the minute.

  18. me Avatar
    me

    we could do like London and make it extremely expensive to drive as well as really working on a proper school bus system…

  19. Avatar
    Anonymous

    Rasshole idiots.

    “frenzy” is for ignorant fools.

    The DLP is in power and we will do what we want.

  20. David Avatar
    David

    Is it fair to assess the benefit of the widenning aspect of the project given that it is a work in progress? We heard that motorists will not be able to turn tight coming from Pine East West Boulevard as well as to turn right from the highway.This should have a positive impact on proceedings.

  21. SME Avatar
    SME

    ABC,

    “The reason why everyone that replies to me will disagree is that the ministry and former government has never explained the benefits to the average road user.”

    May I suggest three more reasons why most persons that reply to you may disagree:

    * Independent traffic and feasibility studies demonstrating the technical and economic viability of the project should have been conducted prior to its commencement. Flyovers may or may not be justified at some of the intersections along the highway, but to commit to such a major project without first conducting an assessment and evaluation of alternatives is irresponsible.

    * A project as complex and costly as this should never be undertaken without a formal contract and an Owner’s Engineer who is responsible for verifying that contractual obligations are met.

    * The lead contractor on a public project of this scale should be selected through a process of competitive tendering, rather than on the basis of a 3-minute computer animation and a referral from someone who has a vested interest in the project.

    If you carefully examine the concerns raised by most persons, you will find that they relate less to the actual flyover proposal than they do to the process followed in arriving at this solution.

  22. Tell me Why Avatar
    Tell me Why

    If we take your advice Tell Me Why we have to double numbers in RBPF.
    ……………………………………………………………………..
    To control the gridlock at roundabouts will take no more than 12 officers for two hours for 5 days. Suppose these officers received $3,000.00 each per month, that will be only $36,000.00 per year. By the next General Election it will cost taxpayers $2.16 million. If the flyovers cost $120 million, do you know the amount of 5-year terms that these 12 officers can be employed?

  23. ABC Avatar
    ABC

    SME, you’re exactly correct. However I was replying to a technical comment about the effects of the flyovers on traffic flow. No reasonable person could defend how the contractor selection and contact negotiation has been managed. In fact, if this had been done correctly as they originally intended the costs would have been a fraction because a fixed price would have been set prior to commencement of works.

    Tell me why has a point about traffic congestion into the city and if you can cross the highway more quickly you will just hit traffic quicker such as in Collymore Rock.

    My argument holds much better for afternoon rush hour when crossing the highway quicker means getting home more quickly.

    The problem with congestion in town is supposed to be addressed by the traffic cameras at intersections and the dynamic timing of lights. Basically traffic light timing will be adjusted to accomodate the predominant flows of traffic at any particular time – this is a part of this overall project and included in the costs.

    This has been paid for long time ago – but I am no longer involved in the project so I don’t know what is holding them up from implementing.

  24. peltdownman Avatar
    peltdownman

    Just drove on the highway through the Pine, with the new roundabout in action. I have to figure this one out. We will have flrovers to get over the congestion caused by roundabouts, so…………we add another roundabout! This is fantastic, because we can now zoom off the flyover over the Bussa roundabout and come to a screeching halt as traffic from all over Wildey and the Pine is using the roundabout. Then you wait to crawl around the roundabout and, ZOOM, you are off again to the flyover at Cable & Wireless. Brilliant! Truly brilliant!

  25. Tell me Why Avatar
    Tell me Why

    This is a call to the Minister of Transport. I am hoping that when ever you are holding this consultation with transport players, that you will allow knowledgeable bloggers on the subject the opportunity to attend.

    Remember, academics don’t have all the answers.

  26. ABC Avatar
    ABC

    peltdownman, that roundabout was a concession made by MPT against the recommendations of 3S to placate some bigwigs at CDB. They were not happy about having to go down to Bussa to come back up if they werew approaching the office from the south.

    To aleviate part of the problem caused by this roundabout, 3S put in that bypass lane for northboud traffic.

  27. peltdownman Avatar
    peltdownman

    Thanks for the info., ABC. I guess it’s still true that a camel is really a horse designed by a committee.

  28. Tell me Why Avatar
    Tell me Why

    ABC, Peltdownman and David.

    With this roundabout, vehicles coming over the hill by BET and wishing to swing into the road by the SJPP will have the right away. That mean traffic coming from the Bussa area going south will have to stop for the vehicles going around the roundabout.

    Wonder if the engineers realise that this could be a step backwards unless you place a give way sign or use a solid line to halt the free movement with the northbound/SJPP movement.

  29. Tell me Why Avatar
    Tell me Why

    This is the said reason why simple people like us should have a say.

  30. peltdownman Avatar
    peltdownman

    Tell Me Why, it’s not just northbound traffic turning into CDB and SJPP, but to avoid the dreadful Wildey Main Road, traffic from Wildey Industrial Park and Wildey Business Park travelling south now have a really easy way to avoid the congestion. Before, they had to turn left out of Wildey Road and do a U-turn at the SJPP. It’s now been made a lot easier, and the amount of traffic using the roundabout is bound to increase, thereby causing even more congestion. I give it six months after completion of the highway before that roundabout is removed.

  31. ABC Avatar
    ABC

    Tell me Why // March 19, 2008 at 1:22 pm

    With this roundabout, vehicles coming over the hill by BET and wishing to swing into the road by the SJPP will have the right away. That mean traffic coming from the Bussa area going south will have to stop for the vehicles going around the roundabout.

    —

    I did not know this – that is absolutly ludicrous. So much so that I have to ask where you got this info from. It would take a heck of an idiot to make this decision.

  32. peltdownman Avatar
    peltdownman

    One of the annoying things about the “concession’ given to CDB bigwigs is that many of them will have lived and worked in countries where short diversions such as having to go to Bussa and come back are the norm and perfectly acceptable if the intention is avoid congestion.

  33. peltdownman Avatar
    peltdownman

    ABC, it would have to be so. On roundabouts, traffic already on the roundabout automatically gets right of way, unless traffic lights are installed. To do otherwise in this case would have traffic backed up way past the Cable and Wireless junction – in fact the very existence of the roundabout will result in the very same queues being formed as exist right now.

  34. Tell me Why Avatar
    Tell me Why

    I did not know this – that is absolutly ludicrous. So much so that I have to ask where you got this info from. It would take a heck of an idiot to make this decision.
    …………………………………………………………………….
    This is the same reason that this highway have so much problems, people like you who are (was) associated with this project lack foresight.

    Your confirmation
    “This has been paid for long time ago – but I am no longer involved in the project so I don’t know what is holding them up from implementing.”

    That’s why it takes idiots like me to correct the mistakes by academics.

  35. John Avatar
    John

    The price of gas is the same as when a barrel of oil was $65.00US.

    However, a barrel of oil now costs about double, $113.00 US and rising although some predict it will level out and perhaps fall.

    Something has got to give with gas prices. They seem to be subsidised like the feed and the flour to create an artificial economy.

    Why spend $117 million to make space for more cars when it seems likely the numbers on the road will fall?

    If this happens, the problem of congestion solves itself!!

    … but to be sure, why not spend a fraction of that amount on making our public transportation more efficient …. and then look at bringing back the train!!

    What on earth are we contemplating flyovers for?

  36. Tell me Why Avatar
    Tell me Why

    Also vehicles coming from the SJPP and going north will have the right away, since vehicles on the right are always right, unless, MPT place a “Give way” sign with a solid white line to give the vehicles coming from the BET hill clear movement.

    We also have to look at the merger with vehicles coming from the Wildey Housing area. That mean three set of vehicle merging to go north. This area will be an accident waiting to happen.

  37. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    ABC…..I did not know this – that is absolutly ludicrous. So much so that I have to ask where you got this info from. It would take a heck of an idiot to make this decision.
    —————————————————————–
    And where did you think he got this info?
    Just take a drive up there tommorow and see for yourself.

  38. Eh! Eh! Avatar
    Eh! Eh!

    I was under the impression that the new roundabout by the SJP was to facilitate traffic from the North that needed to access the Pine East – West Blvd.,the BWA etc.

  39. Tell me Why Avatar
    Tell me Why

    Can people please tell me what’s happening by Life of Barbados? Can you also tell me why the area called The Bermuda Triangle is taking so long, after being told that it would last six months, but alas, the public is still at a loss and we still seeing death on this highway. Do tell me what’s happening?

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