I‘m telling you this crime situation has turned into a comedy of errors. First (If we can call it first) 388 people were murdered last year. Next Ramesh Lawrence Maharaj and Jack Warner get together to hire a team of private security guards to protect the people of Macaulay village who have been plagued by criminals. Then the people who came out in such hoards to denounce the “vigilantism” has the rest of us asking, do these people have any idea what vigilantism actually is?
Speaking for myself, I see nothing wrong with the measures undertaken my Warner and Maharaj. If the people of Macaulay village are under siege then by all means they are to have security. I’m jealous of them as I assume all other non-gated communities around Trinbago are. Yet, we do understand that private security officers don’t have all the same powers a police officer has. They don’t have the power to kick a handcuffed suspect and they probably can’t laugh at an abused husband – I mean these guys could get fired for something like that. Other than that they are more or less just like our regular cops but with vehicles.
Full Article: The Manicou Report
You know that the crime situation is reaching ‘lows’ in Trinidad when Commissioner Trevor Paul is criticized by citizens because he attended an Old Year Night Fete with his wife. We agree with the argument on both sides: Commissioner Paul has a personal life and should be free to socialize in a personal capacity; the flip side is that his uniform and office should be seen as being on the job around the clock.
Trinidad is the one island in English Caribbean which is blessed with oil as a natural resource in abundance. If we assess the success of Trinidad using economics as a measure, no competition is forthcoming from its CARICOM neighbours, even though Barbados has pretensions of finding the black gold soon, but that is another story. If we agree that the ultimate objective of any government must be to maintain economic and social harmony in the society, than in the case of Trinidad it seems to be out of equilibrium for the moment. The spate of kidnappings in recent years, the bombings in public spaces, the longstanding tensions which flicker and flame between the religious factions in the society (Trinidad and Tobago epitomizes the classic multi-racial-ethnic-religious society) makes for troubling times. We definitely don’t envy Commissioner Paul whose task seems more difficult at the moment than that of Edmund Hillary who first climbed Mount Everest.
Why are we interested in the state of affairs in Trinidad and Tobago? you must be asking.
As member states in CARICOM become more comfortable with operationalizing the concept of the Caribbean Single Market and Economy (CSME) – a key component of any common market is the freedom of movement of the people in that space. A perfectly good conclusion we can make, and we are sure the Economists can understand this language: we will probably import many of the social ills of T&T, Guyana and several of the other islands. Don’t we routinely accept the position that our open economies struggle economically because we import inflation?
The passive disposition of Barbadians has become legendary. The willingness of successive Barbados governments to be magnanimous to the idea of regional integration is laudable. However, it is in the implementation where many Barbadians seem to be out of touch with our government. There is no doubt that Barbadians remain quietly fearful of the impact of the open immigration policy which was practiced by the former BLP government. The reason for the fear has nothing to do with being xenophobic, because Barbadians have long accepted the idea of the many Caribbean people who have emigrated during the heights of a vibrant sugar cane industry. The fear comes from the alarming criminal behaviour which we are observing in our sister islands which are less than 1 hour away by air or sea.
Is it unreasonable for Barbadians to believe that if we are not vigilant and take the appropriate measures now, we can become overrun by the mal-behaviour we are witnessing just next door? Some of us are already observing the changing face of crime on our small island. Unlike Trinidad which does not rely on tourism, we do. An escalating crime situation would set us back decades. The time for firm leadership is now.
Prime Minister David Thompson please hear our call.
Search Barbados Underground by using the ‘Key Words” Crime and Immigration to read related stories.
An excellent kick off.
Crimonology is a well researched subject. Cross-country studies cite a number of factors that contribute to rising crime levels: the level of unemployment and economic despair is a major factor, the degree of inequality and loss of confidence in the system is another, drugs and organised crime is another factor and one that has gripped Trinidad. There are of course other issues of a more social and community nature that tend to be different between countries.
The British Labour party had a mantra when in opposition that made sense (whether they followed it through was another): tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime.
We already have a one of the highest rates of police per capital in the world, but we need to maintain the focus and to ensure that organised crime as in Trinidad does not gain a foothold here. Organised crime is related to drugs and prostitution. There is a difficult balance to get in that the more we criminalise drugs and prostitution, the more organised crime takes over.
We also need to make sure that economic performance is strong so that unemployment stays down – an extra challenge in the next couple of years with the US heading for recession.
So how does immigration fit into this? Well we need an open economy to preserve our economic growth, otherwise unemployment will rise back and the causes of crime will grow. Crude ways to reduce immigration will increase the cost of living and lower employment prospects and so will prove counterproductive.
And the focus needs to be on drugs and organised crime, which is unrelated to 90% of the immigration we have.
Tough issues. But the key is that we do not go down a road that finds excuses for crime. In Trinidad the government makes it out that a victim of crime must somehow have been related to crime and so excuses it, rather that tryng to eliminate it. Crime can only survive in Trinidad, the richest country in the region, because the government does not take it seriously enough but tries to excuse and accommodate it. In Guyana too many people say that crime with a political dimension is all right if it is our side.
There must be zero tolerance for crime as well as much investment in reducing the principal causes of crime.
Is Barbados in Trinidad?
Is Barbados is Guyana?
Nonsense!
I have n’t read the entire article but I can be assured of one thing; even though Trini ‘is blessed with oil’, I bet you that not much of the wealth is reaching down to the ordinary BLACK people but is concentrated in the hands of the Indians!
Please correct me if I’m wrong! And we appear to be letting more of them into Bim!!!!
Barbados Underground,
Absolute nonsense!
Barbados is an integral part of the Caribbean region and (as prime minister David Thompson has rightfully pointed out) CSME is good for Barbados.
Had Errol Barrow the great visionary been as small-minded as you at Barbados Underground are, our country today would have remained “a collection of villages”.
http://bajanfreepress.wordpress.com/2008/01/25/thompson-makes-right-move-on-csme/
There are Barbadians living and working in EVERY Caribbean territory today, and this has been the case for generations.
There will be no turning back with CSME. Read the DLP Manifesto and you will glean that just like the BLP before them, they are committed to CARICOM, to CSME, and to the protection of the rights of “the foreign worker”.
DLP Manufesto, Page 34
It is for this reason that the Democratic Labour
Party will:
• Introduce policies to manage immigration
in the interest of the local labour force and
the foreign worker who may otherwise be
subject to exploitation.
The pathway to progress in Barbados does not lie in being inward-looking and insular, but rather in opening new channels to the outside world so that we can bring continued benefits and prosperity to our country.
Bajan Free Press
According to Bimbro: “I bet you that not much of the wealth is reaching down to the ordinary BLACK people but is concentrated in the hands of the Indians!
Please correct me if I’m wrong! And we appear to be letting more of them into Bim!!!!”
This is another example of how racism and other forms of discrimination are founded upon ignorance. This is of course the same Bimbro who lectures us about God’s word, yet these are some very unGodly thoughts.
The business community in Trinidad is dominated by Indians, long before oil and gas became a source of great domestic income. This is partly because pre-independence the public service was reserved for christians, in a rather unchristian act of the colonial government, and so Indians were forced into private business.
Indian business in Trinidad is not dominated by oil and gas. Though the single biggest domestic player (BP, BG, Conoco, Koch, are big international players) is CLICO a racially mixed business with ties to both the Government and the Opposition (as with all good businesses). Incidentally, people say that this business, run by Leroy Parris in Barbados, was a significant contributor to the DLP, but I dont think anything has been disclosed as yet. When do you think that will happen?
Indian business in Trinidad is driven by retail distribution, agriculture and business services. It is said that the real concentration of wealth in Trinidad is in “Syrian” hands not Indian. Indeed, the Indian community also has some pockets of extreme poverty in rural Trinidad. Indians came to Trinidad in the 1850s as indentured labourers working in rice and sugar fields. the UNC, a predominantly Indian party, is a party with its roots in poor agricultural workers.
For most of the period of exploiting oil and gas (oil has been produced in Trinidad since the 19th century, but the gas economy only took off in the late 1960s) the PNM government has been in charge. The voters of the PNM are largely, though not exclusively “black”. Government decides who gets licenses to operate in the oil and gas sector. The Indian community has not been “favoured” in this regard but being the business community they have benefited from the flow of oil and gas revenues to accountants, lawyers, business services and small contractors.
It would seem to me that if we want to create more competition in our distributive trades sector and make it as competitive as it is in Trinidad, then having some Trinidad businesses here, black, Indian or whatever, would be good. Trinidadians are putting substantial amounts of capital into Barbados. It is why we have been able to sustain a strong economy and low unemployment with a current account deficit.
One of the reasons why Trinidadian Indians are coming to Barbados is that they feel safer than in Trinidad where they are victims of crime. This thread started on the basis of not importing crime from Trinidad. With these Trinidadians, we are importing well-healed victims of crime looking for a safe refuge. Bimbro does not want to give them a traditionally warm Barbadian welcome. The openness which brings Trinidadians to put their money here and improve the competitiveness of our retail sector will also allow Barbadian businesses to expand and export to Trinidad. Trinidad is in fact the region’s largest market for goods and services produced elsewhere in the region.
I am disturbed to read these semi-racist remarks about Indians from Bimbro. He should be ashamed. Our people have suffered from racism. There is no place in Barbados for racism and we must have zero tolerance for it in all its forms and wherever it surfaces. Turning a blind eye to the racism of others has many sorry and serious consequences.
Mr Gresham, I’ll give you $10 if u can show me where I’ve made reference to god’s word!!!!
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There is no place in Barbados for racism and we must have zero tolerance for it in all its forms and wherever it surfaces. Turning a blind eye to the racism of others has many sorry and serious consequences.
*****************************
Preach about ‘turning a blind eye to racism’, to the many blacks suffering at the bottom of the pile in countries like Guyana and Trinidad, in fact, everywhere where there’s a mixturre of Indians and blacks!
Clearly, you don’t mind if this happens in Bim, as well, which it’s certain to, if it has n’t started happening, already!
You don’t mind black people permanently, occupying the position at the bottom of the pile, whereas, I do!
Mr. Bimbro.
There you go again, a racial view based on ignorance. It is sad that racists like you do not feel ashamed to spout your racism in Barbados.
You clearly do not know Trinidad and Guyana. The business community in Trinidad is more Indian than black. But poverty in both countries is not dominated by blacks.
The poorest parts of both countries is the rural areas where previous governments have often neglected infrastructure, with many places lacking adequate water and electricity.
Those areas are dominated by Indians. Compare a rural public school with a urban rural school and you would worry about the rural poor being trapped in poverty. This is why the “Indian” party, UNC, is not a business party, but a working class Indian party strong in poor rural areas where the rice and sugar plantations used to be. The irony of your racism is acute. The rural Indians in Trinidad have more in common with Barbadian tenantry holders than urban blacks in Trinidad.
The UNC (not my party) would say that the reason why previous governments neglected the rural poor for the urban poor, who are poor but generally have electricity, water and a few work and relief schemes s that previous government’s were racially biased.
The way for both countries to advance is to be less racial in their politics and favouritism all round. We cannot get there if people like you make up racist stories because your racism tells you it must be right without considering the facts. Ignorance is the fuel of racism.
In Barbados we have a tendency to get sidetracked from the main issues. The thrust of this story is to convey the idea that we have to manage immigration, integration, globalization or whatever you want to call it.
It has to be managed! If people want to call us xenophobes so be it, we are xenophobes.
Thomas gresham you talking bare boo.
Your analysis of Trinidad and their wealth in limited areas in the business sector, as well as your false assertion that the PNM party does not award them these large contracts – is the type of puesdo socio-political garbage that persons use to maintain the staus quo.
All the major road building contracts go to the indians who own that sector lock ,stock and barrel.
Most of the other government contracts whatever they may be are passed on to the indians either through their indian brothers and sisters holding high positions in the civil service and/or through bribing;because let me tell you ‘indians love to bribe’ – that is their modus operandi.
Bimbro stand your ground you are right,and donot be intimidated in saying your piece.
Barbados will be worse off for allowing these people into to the country under the guise of business for they will bring their nasty,nasty, hatred of black people to this land.
The record is there for all to see.
What the f**k!!!!!!!!!!
Gunmen kill 11 in Guyana village massacre
Government says gangs trying to inflame ethnic tensions
GEORGETOWN – Gunmen shot and killed 11 people, including five children, early on Saturday in a village in Guyana, a small South American country where gang violence is on the rise.
President Bharrat Jagdeo said the leaders of the massacre in the village of Lusignan, 11 miles east of the capital Georgetown, were linked to gunmen who attacked police headquarters in Georgetown on Friday night.
“These are animals and we have to hunt them down,” Jagdeo said in a news conference broadcast on state television.
Story continues below ↓advertisement
The government sent police and troops to the area to capture the gunmen and restore public order after angry residents protested the killings by blocking roads.
Jagdeo said the gang members were seeking to “spread terror” on Guyana’s eastern coast and the killings were an attempt to inflame ethnic tensions between African and Indian Guyanese.
“The nature of this incident, carried out by unknown and reckless gunmen, (could) seriously affect the stability (of) race relations in Guyana,” Robert Corbin, leader of Guyana’s opposition parties, said in a statement.
Guyana has suffered from ethnic tension between populations of African and Indian descent and has struggled to contain rampant violence by roving gangs often linked to drug trafficking.
Gang members fired indiscriminately at police headquarters on Friday night, though no injuries were reported.
Officials say gang leader Rondell Rawlins has threatened to attack police installations after accusing them of kidnapping his girlfriend.
But the government has made no official statement linking Rawlins to the Lusignan killings.
Gunmen and troops on Wednesday exchanged gunfire in Buxton, also near Georgetown. One soldier was killed and another was wounded.
Police and the army urged people to avo
What is happening in Guyana and Trinidad is deeply disturbing. Underneath it is a racism, which says it is OK for people to shoot, steal, rape, maim, if they do it against another race in the name of my race. We must not let racist ideas like this have one foothold in Barbados. So, David, I worry about the xenophobia you talked about as if it were acceptable.
Yes, we must manage immigration, but let us not do so from a position of xenophobia or racism. The more we let racial/religions/other discrimination in, in whatever form, the more it will destroy us.
Recall the wonderful words by Pastor Niemoller:
“In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;
And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up.”
The present situation in the twin isle republic is a great cause for concern not just to us in Barbados but to our brothers and sisters in Grenada, St. Vincent and St. Lucia also.
Rumour has it that some of the recent murders in Barbados are the work of organized hit men coming from elsewhere in the region to do the job and then fly out the next day.
If that rumour is correct, then it will have serious implications for our local immigration officials who need to be more vigilant of persons migrating here. I am all for regionalism but I think it needs to be organized and controlled, not a free for all.
Some persons would say that to be more vigilant would introduce more red tape but clearly, we would engender chaos if we allow an uncontrolled immigration policy. The middle ground must be sought in this regard.
Annonymous says the following: “All the major road building contracts go to the indians who own that sector lock ,stock and barrel.”
“Barbados will be worse off for allowing these people into to the country under the guise of business for they will bring their nasty,nasty, hatred of black people to this land.
The record is there for all to see.”
Who are the major civil contractors in Trinidad? Carillion (a UK based company), Trinidad Contractors (a mixed company, more associated with the PNM than the UNC), and Proman (German-based).
Once more, lies are used to spread racist filth. We must say loudly and clear to these people that racism has no place in Barbados from whichever direction.
I ask you once you pout the racism aside, is our social and economic challenges caused by having Trinidadians spend their money in Barbados? You want to turn these people away, lose the capital inflow, and to what end? Do you honestly think they are driving burgularies or drug crime? Racism is the solace of fools.
Hi Bimbro and Everyone, I have been reading but not writing as I a bit under the weather, bad cold, then I got the shock of the killings on early Saturday morning at Lusignan ECD and I went into depression. I got sick, and I stayed in bed for 24 hours straight. I can’t believe that Satan took the upper hand of those men that they would do such a thing. I really feel badly for the victims families and I am praying for a healing in Guyana. Life is too precious for this to happen. Anyway, you all please pray for it is only Jesus can save Guyana
All I have to say is had those men been saved and sanctified they would have been at home resting and filled with holiness, but no they kept company with the devil and that is what happens when people keep company with the devil. I am praying for a great healing and I know that the Lord will hear my prayers. I am ashamed that every newspaper in the world from Argentina to Turkey to USA carried that terrorist act that was carried out by Satan and his cohorts at Lusignan, East Demerara. I am sad. Have a nice day everyone.
Mr Gresham, I worry bout MY OWN people not people who in worry bout me!!
I would get up an do a dance now to that refrain but just imagine it!
I WORRYING BOUT MY ‘OWN’ PEOPLE!!!!
You can worry bout the Indians if u want to! What I DO KNOW, is that whichever the country, it’s usually the BLACKS who are at the bottom of the pile! I don’t say that they’re not sometimes to blame but my aim is to encourage them to strive for better, because the Indians certainly, won’t help them! They’re too busy, TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THEM AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY THEY CAN GET!!!!
Now, if u want to believe, differently, then that’s a matter for you, Sir!!!!
Anonymous // January 27, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Thomas gresham you talking bare boo.
Your analysis of Trinidad and their wealth in limited areas in the business sector, as well as your false assertion that the PNM party does not award them these large contracts – is the type of puesdo socio-political garbage that persons use to maintain the staus quo.
All the major road building contracts go to the indians who own that sector lock ,stock and barrel.
******************************
Gresham, I in bin nuhway near Trini & don’t have nuh immediate plans of doing so, either, and yet I WAS N’T SURPRISED BY THIS STATEMENT OF Anonymous’!! Why do u suppose that was?
Do u think it might n’t be becuase that’s my DAILY, experience of those people in whichever country I live!
I don’t have to live in Trini to be aware of TYPICAL, INDIAN BEHAVIOUR!!!!
Mr Gresham, please doan raise my blood-pressure suh bright n early dis Mondie mornin!!
Anyway, I gun lef u to Anonymous!!!!
**********************************
Bimbro stand your ground you are right,and donot be intimidated in saying your piece.
*******************************
Hi Anonymous, I had n’t even read above yet, when I wrote that piece! I STANDING-UP FUH MY OWN PEOPLE!!!! & I IN EVEN START PUN DE INVECTIVES, YET!!!!
Hopefully, he won’t provoke me to the point where I feel the need to resort, to them, but here-goes! Going to read the rest of the bo**ocks he’s written!!!!
******************************
Anonymous, surprsingly, perhaps, I’m not even oppossed to allowing A FEW of them in! I think their presence might provide an incentive for the blacks to compete against them and aim even higher, but I would certainly, want to watch them very, carefully, because, if one did n’t, as you know, they’d soon take over Bim, and we certainly, don’t want that!
************************
Gresham, I agree with u here. I KNOW the blacks in G. are having a very difficult time under Indian, domination but one can’t be allowed to go around killing innocent, people. I’m a suckler for law and order, except in exceptional times! These gunmen appear to be ‘ordinary’, criminals. In that case, let’s hope they’ll soon be caught and dealt with! I’m not an expert, and don’t desire to be – one can’t be expert on everything – yet, I am aware of the appalling, problem with crime in Buxton and neighbouring villages. I just hope that the G. govt. may repair the situ for ALL of its people!!!!
Guyana has had a very, sad history expecially, since the Burnham administrations and yet, the people, even the black ones, I find so, arrogant! It limits me in the amount of sympathy which I can feel for them!!!!
*******************************
Eureka, is ‘all for regionalism’! I agree, except, for one nationality of people who I would never let anywhere, near Bim, even less than the Indians! Anyhow, won’t go into that now ’cause I know how some Bajans seem to be besotted with them, reprobates though they are!!!!
*******************************
Gresham, you’re castigating my mate, Anonymous, talking about not impeding the flow of Trini (Indian) cash into Bim. G, allow me to inform you that, although important, money is n’t the only factor in life!!
Quality of life, and respect for person are two vital elements!
Concerning the first: the Inians’ quality of life is almost invariably, better than ours!!
And concerning the second: they have NO respect at all, for us!!
To me Sir, those two elememts are of vital importance!
None of us welcome, racism but your Indian friends DO quite, happily! I see it every day with my own eyes!! Why do u seem only to identify racism as emanating from BLACKS!!!!
Welcome, back Sister Baby. I addressed u in some of the other forums and lamented your abscence. Although, they irritate the life out of me, we still pray for Guyana, also, that the blacks there might wake-up and stop feeling that they’re superior to their fellow, west indian, blacks! In that respect, they’re pathetic, especially, in view of all that’s happening there!!!!
Don’t worry about Guyana, SB. The fact is that man is an evil creature which needs to be controlled by draconian measures. Your govt. needs to act, severely! They’ll never behave by themselves!!!!
Had n’t planned on writing such a long piece but ‘dah Gresham get me dis morning’!!!!
Lorddddddddddddddddddd 🙂
Thomas gresham
You see people like you could fool those on this site with your false information unless someone could bring proof that you are deliberately lying and misleading the readers.
I spoke about most of the road building projects in Trinidad going to companies owned by indians and you responded saying that in fact the major companies are a german and a u.k. and a mixed (whatever that means) company.
Well let me enlighten you the indian companies who lock up all the road building contracts are :seereram brothers,Sammy & co and mootilal moonan.
So don’t come here with your sh**t,trying to convince us that we should allow these indians here in barbados because it will bring with it the same racial and other problems they are causing in trinidad and guyana.
The large majority of indians are taught from small not to intermarry or become too close with persons of african descent unless their is some economic benefit or social advancement for them – like for example the guyanese indians who used to come here and marry black bajan men just to get bajan citizenship and then quickly divorce – a thing they would hardly do in guyana.
Barbados will be in deep shit if we don’t learn from the examples around us.
I will always remain vigilant to correct the lies from people like you who come here pushing your lies to lull bajans into a false sense of comfort and security with a race of people who don’t assimilate wherever they go.
Money for the most part is Indians most important god and they will do anything to enrich themselves regardless of what happens to the society.
Who you think are directly responsible for those young black men killing out themselves in Trinidad?
Well it is the Indians and the Syrian business men who bring in the drugs and the guns in their containers of goods.
The commissioner of police in Trinidad talked about the fact the the recent rise in kidnapping was a direct result of indian businessmen paying these young black men to go and threaten other businessmen who owed these indian businessmen money,incidentally they were also their indian brothers,but indians are rutless that way.
When these young men, a lot of whom were muslimeen didnot have any more extortion work and also realising the amount of money these businesses had they turned to kidnapping them.
This was also confirmed in a public statement 2 years ago made by Bhoe Tewarie the former principal of UWI St Augustine.
Note these indian drug deals cum/ businessmen flooded only those areas when there were majority afro trini population like Morvant,Laventille,Carenage,Belmont,Diego Martin etc
Not Caroni,Debe,Penal where the majority indian population live.
Finally so that readers get the picture the last hanging in trinidad were of 9 men mostly indians – the leader who was the biggest drug pusher in Trinidad who was hanged with them was a man called Dole Chadee.
All of this can be found in the archives of the trinidadian newspaper.
Dole Chadee controlled the drug den in the south of Trinidad while the drug king pin the north of the island was another indian man called Naim known as the ‘Fruit King’ and based in San Juan.
He was a well known as a businessman by day with his hands in a lot of pies,but by night he was ravaging the young black boys and girls in Port of Spain and its environs with his drugs,that is until he was taken out.
So when people like thomas gresham who lord knows what his agenda might be tries to get us to believe that these are lovely,decent people coming here to invest and we should welcome them with open arms,I say David Thompson and bajans alike should do their homework,because while one or two might be clean a large number of them are not – and the trinidad criminals will be following them from trinidad to take up where they left out.
“Crime Wars”
Bim is not, and will not become like T&T! CSME only allows for the free movement of degreed individuals, so unless lawyers, accountants, bank managers, and engineers are going to start fighting for drug territory with the boys on the block CSME is not the issue. Unskilled labor is the problem. The PM needs to restrict the entry of unskilled labor from all countries not just Caricom. As for the “race” issue, black people are funny. Black Guyanese supported the black Bajan Burnham (yes he was a Bajan) for years while he ran one the riches countries in South America into the ground. Black Trinis continue to support the PNM in spite of record murder rates and kidnappings. Don’t blame the coolies, look in the mirror.
Dear Racist Annonymous
When I was in the UK and younger I led strikes and sit ins to fight apartheid. I was taken to court for my direct action. I and others led the disinvestment of investment from South African companies and those that traded with them. Many milions were divested, helpng to bring the apartheid regime to an end.
I and my colleagues, many Indian as well as black and white did so because racism in whatever form and from whoever is wrong and criminal.
The ANC in South Africa then and today has many Indian members and executives.
I read in your racist comments the same words and comments we heard from South Africa’s whites who feared that giving majority rule would turn their country into a pit of crime and drugs and that the blacks would steal and kick them to the bottom. You are no better. You think you speak of for your race but you degrade us all with your racism. I will have no more to do with you.
Well said, Anonymous, I’m with u on this!!!!
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Gresham, “You will have no more to do with him”! So, what do u expect to happen now! Think he’s going to cry? I doubt that very much, & petulance does n’t prove your point, anyway!!
One of your most significant, points was this: “The ANC in South Africa then and today has many Indian members and executives”, to which I say, “the Indians are n’t stupid, and never have been and have ALWAYS, known ‘on which side their bread is buttered”!!!! I’m surprised that you did n’t appreciate, that! I’m sure they’ve managed to secure one or two positions in the current, S. African government to look after their own interests!!!!
I agree with Anonymous, wholesale infiltration of Bim by Indians would eventually, lead to a repeat of the situs in those 2 countries, and pray tell me, WHAT ON EARTH WOULD BE THE POINT, OF THAT!!!!
Thank you Bimbro.
Did you notice that once I was able to unmask the lies of one thomas gresham I am now labelled racist anonymous and he decides he aint playing no more – according to him “I will have no more to do with you”
Like if I care.That is the problem with hypocrites and bullies,anytime you stand up to them they run away bawling with their tail between their legs.
I would not even respond to the comment by De Gap it doesnot follow clear logic.
Just on a point of elucidation De Gap,CSME has been extended to now include artisans.
Secondly if you took the time to read the post before you jumped in you would realise that it is the business class who are the ones bringing in the drugs in trinidad while by day they run big businesses.
CSME is especially set up for them.
On the point of South Africa why didn’t gresham mention the betrayal of the indians in South Africa who chose to accept the title of ‘honourary whites’,rather than what all non blacks were ‘coloured’.
Very few indians were active in the struggle they were content to open their shops and one door stores etc and take the money of the poor blacks who were still mired in ‘slavery’.
The fight for the end to apartheid was as a result of mainly blacks,some liberal whites like joe slovo, and a very few indians.
Anonymous,
Yes “artisans” would be considered skilled, and I still contend that professionals and “artisans” are not the ones responsible for the crime wave in T&T or Guyana. The PM should restrict the free movement of unskilled workers even the Anglo Saxons, but crime waves potential or real have nothing to do with CSME. I don’t know who is running drugs into T&T, blacks or coolies, but the fact remains that blacks continue to support the PNM in spite of the murder rate and kidnappings, likewise Guyana. If you continue to support a government that is oblivious or impotent to alleviate your condition, I fail to see how you can blame the opposition or “racism” when you have been an active participant in your own oppression and or exploitation.
Uncontrolled immigration, more than a cause, is a symptom of social decay, and a declining society. Call it xenophobia, but one of the hallmarks of living systems(community included) is an ability to recognize “self” and defend “self” from a host of invaders…often the most different are seen as the most threatening, and if not at least the most memorable. So we have racism, and stereotyping, though primitive it is present like anything else, because of some necessary or enduring quality. The essence is “in-group” vs “out-group” and if you think a number of superficial physical, social, religious and ethnic traits of a group of people so divergent from your own as to be a THREAT; then you are likely to fall into the racism trap. It is a pitiful human behavior, but understandable.
Schism and dichotomy are classic tools of primitive human thought, consequently there seems always to be an us vs them argument, or bush’s with us or against us. Few people have developed the capacity to grasp included middles, grayscales, continuums etc. Many people think in boxes and compartmentalize, preferably two boxes at a time. Again this is quite sad, but it is a start in developing reasoning and thinking.
Racism cannot be argued away, but it most fears(anthropomorphic) Truth, one of the most effective cures for the scourge of racism. With respect to the case of uncontrolled immigration, a nation that has become so weak and decedent as to allow unbridled invasion (some of it parasitic and pathogenic) often for transient material gain of a selfish FEW is often so far removed from truth (which builds society) that racism follows with great probability.
Sorry if I have been too wordy, I read too much.
Secondly if you took the time to read the post before you jumped in you would realise that it is the business class who are the ones bringing in the drugs in trinidad while by day they run big businesses.
CSME is especially set up for them.
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That’s fine, Anonymous. Caan bother with Gresham. One finds these foreigner- ass-licking-people everywhere who just can’t bear to face the truth about the other side! One gets it in relation to the Jamaicans, too. People who can’t bear to accept that they’re among the most violent and criminally-inclined people, in the world. I realise you may not agree with that!
That’s an interesting perspective of yours on the result of the CSME, A! Something of which I’d no idea but is deserving of serious, consideration. How much real knowledge do you have of this aspect?
Agree, totally, with what u said re: the S. African Indians! Anybody who thinks that Indian will choose to align themselves with blacks rather than, just about anybody else, even in a black country, is fooling himself and only earning my disapproval if he’s trying to fool me, too!
Not familiar enough with the situ in Guyana to comment on ‘degaps’s contribution!!!!
Makiaveli, very high-brow, I’m sure but I in got time fuh nuh sociological exposition at the moment!
Anon. might take u on, though!! Don’t know!!!! 🙂
Actually that’s a simple exposition…I’ll give this one more effort.
1. Barbados is a sovereign nation.
2. We the people through our democratically elected government can choose to set what ever criteria for immigration.
3. If government fails on immigration: get rid of them (with as little violence as necessary)
4. Barbados is obviously not Guyana or Trinidad.
5. Trinidad and Tobago is a republic, one state, but Trinidad is Trinidad and Tobago is Tobago.
6. Trinidad and Guyana have similarities in racial, ethnic, religious presence quite different from Tobago.
7. Barbados and Tobago have similarities in racial, ethnic, religious presence quite different from Trinidad.
Some groups obviously aren’t mixing well in those South American lands, unfortunate but a no-brainer.
As for CSME I take it seriously when there is a unified monetary policy and central bank, for now its economic parasitism.
Makaveli we note that you are really espousing some Makavelian philosophies.
According to Bimbo, in attempting to justify his racist remarks about Indians:
“Agree, totally, with what u [Annonymous] said re: the S. African Indians! Anybody who thinks that Indian will choose to align themselves with blacks rather than, just about anybody else, even in a black country, is fooling himself and only earning my disapproval if he’s trying to fool me, too!”
There are a great number of facts and figures that I could respond with about the role India and Indians played in the international pressure against apartheid. India led the fight in the UN against apartheid until the independence of Ghana, but let me respond quote directly from a letter smuggled out of Robben Island by my hero, Nelson Mandela.
“The oldest existing political organisation in South Africa, the Natal Indian Congress, was founded by Mahatma Gandhi in 1894. He became its first secretary and in 21 years of his stay in South Africa we were to witness the birth of ideas and methods of struggle that have exerted an incalculable influence on the history of the peoples of India and South Africa. Indeed it was on South African soil that Mahatmaji founded and embraced the philosophy of Satyagraha.”
“It would be a grave omission on our part if we failed to mention the close bonds that have existed between our people and the people of India, and to acknowledge the encouragement, the inspiration and the practical assistance we have received as a result of the international outlook of the All India Congress.”
– Nelson Mandela in his letter from prison in 1980
Makiaveli, ‘thanks’ for condescending to ‘explain it in simpler terms’! Now that I’ve read the simpler version, please tell me something that I did n’t know!!!!
Relieved that I did n’t waste my time reading the longer, twaddle!!!!
Mr Gresham, look how polite I am to you, even though you’ve been insulting to me – no matter; I’ve just started reading your latest piece and already, feel a certain exasperation!
You mention India’s efforts at the UN, etc. re: apartheid!!
My dear fellow, to prevent me from embarking on a long diatribe, may I simply refer you to my remark re: ‘knowing which side their bread is buttered on’!!
I know u understand the meaning of that expression!!!!
Gresham, before I read even more – Mandela, may be your hero. He, certainly, is n’t mine and any west indian who thinks he gives 2 monkeys about us, is fooling himself, but there are a lot of people who obtain great comfort and peace of mind, from doing so!!!!
Gresham, you’re irritating me, even more, now. You would have to mention that idiot, Gandhi, would n’t u, you know, of ‘I’ll never have sex again, because my father died when I was making love’, fame!!!!
Lorrrrd!! Give me a break!!!!
G, I’ll provide u with the link to the authority which states that Gandhi used to refer to the blacks as niggers!!!!
G, r u surprised that his was the oldest organisation in S.A.? Do u suppose the blacks were even allowed to get an education!!!!
Mandela was IN PRISON when he made those remarks. I’d be inclined not to take an excessive amount of notice of anything written or said, by anybody, under duress, G, in case u did n’t know, before!!!!
Sorry to detonate some of your cherished beliefs but truth can b a bastard!!!!
You wouldnt know the truth if it looked you in the face. The insanity of your position, the ignorance of your remarks tells all that needs to be told about people who hold your views.
Dear Bimbro,
Honest question.
I dont come across the views you hold much if at all. I live in a friendly neighbourhood and we chat to each other a lot, but it is probably a BLP neighbourhood. Are the views you espouse held by those who voted for our new government, or are they fairly unique to you?
It is clear Thomas Gresham is either an indian or a white person.
Bimbro don’t waste your breath people like him and those who stand to benefit from the influx of these people will always push the discussion further away from the original point and their original claim.
They change the goal post everytime.
Let me tell you regretabbly what happened in Guyana last week will happen here down the road if this matter is not sorted out, because take note the same black guyanese and the indian guyanese who hate each other and are attacking each other in Guyana, are now here in Barbados.
It is only a matter of time before tension spill over and bajans are caught in the middle.
Poeple like Gresham and others will most likely just jump on a plane and bail out.
Thomas Gresham // January 29, 2008 at 7:46 am
Dear Bimbro,
Honest question.
I dont come across the views you hold much if at all. I live in a friendly neighbourhood and we chat to each other a lot, but it is probably a BLP neighbourhood. Are the views you espouse held by those who voted for our new government, or are they fairly unique to you?
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Dear G, I’ve no idea. I live in the UK and am therefore, perhaps, more knowledgable of certain matters than u are!!!!
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Anonymous // January 29, 2008 at 9:01 am
It is clear Thomas Gresham is either an indian or a white person.
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Anonymous, I was inclined, myself to the same view. However, makes no real difference to my position on this!!!!
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Let me tell you regretabbly what happened in Guyana last week will happen here down the road if this matter is not sorted out, because take note the same black guyanese and the indian guyanese who hate each other and are attacking each other in Guyana, are now here in Barbados.
It is only a matter of time before tension spill over and bajans are caught in the middle.
Poeple like Gresham and others will most likely just jump on a plane and bail out.
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Could n’t agree with u more, Anonymous. We’ve got to look-out for ourselves. We can’t rely, on anybody else to do it for us!!!!
Regards!
BTW, Anonymous, Bimbro has already jumped on a plane and bailed out.
He just doesn’t want anyone else to have the freedom of movement he sought in the UK.
Hypocrite!!!!
Thomas Gresham, I find your last question to Bimbro to be bordering on offensive, and we have come to expect better from you. Do not allow yourself to be dragged into the gutter.
On the other hand, others (including myself) have not come to your defence in this debate, but you should not interpret silence as agreement.
Now that I’ve read the simpler version, please tell me something that I did n’t know!!!!
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Its not sociology, but an understanding of morality and ethics that is required. Everything in existence that has emerged on this earth, has been or is being generated by ethical activity. The rules of such activity are few but elegant.
P.S It wasn’t a simpler version of the first, it was a simpler explanation of its own.
Straight talk // January 29, 2008 at 9:25 am
BTW, Anonymous, Bimbro has already jumped on a plane and bailed out.
He just doesn’t want anyone else to have the freedom of movement he sought in the UK.
Hypocrite!!!!
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See it that way, if u wish, ST. There’s bugger-all I can do about it, anyway, 4k miles away!!!! If I understand your meaning, correctly!!!!
However, I don’t think I’m the sole person to be of that opinion, do you!!!!
Black Bajans must be very careful of people exploiting them.Be wary of your Chinese,Indian, whoever.Blacks have long been exploited by all sorts of people.If Trinidad Indians have problems in Trinidad then they should stay at home and resolve those problems.Allowing all and sundry into B’dos will lead to cracks in your social cohesion.Please check and see how the British goverment have dealt with the Romanian and Bulgarian people who have joined the EU.
Come on David, don’t you think you’re being a wee bit hard on me. Machiavellian is so far beyond me…honestly 😀
Actually I am secretly part Pirsigian with pre-socratic undertones but I try not to let it bubble to the surface to often.
anonymous stated:
“It is clear Thomas Gresham is either an indian or a white person.”
Brutus stated:
“On the other hand, others (including myself) have not come to your defence in this debate, but you should not interpret silence as agreement”
———————————–
Just so you dont feel outnumbered Thomas, I am a black Bajan and I share your opinon. I am silent because I dont think i can argue the point better than you have.
Thank you anonlegal and Brutus.
I think Bimbro’s view that you cannot be black and at the same time argue against ignorance and racism of all kinds is a sad belittling of all black people.
However, I think this thread is not going anywhere so its probably best to leave it. I am a black person who has returned to Barbados, but I do not think that is relevant to anything.
Thomas Gresham // January 29, 2008 at 12:47 pm
Thank you anonlegal and Brutus.
I think Bimbro’s view that you cannot be black and at the same time argue against ignorance and racism of all kinds is a sad belittling of all black people.
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G, the kindest interpretation which I can give to your above remark is to say that it’s , yet, another perversion of the truth!
I am black and AM VERY, MUCH OPPOSSED TO RACISM – ESPECIALLY, WHEN IT”S DIRECTED AT MY OWN PEOPLE…… BARBADIANS!!!!
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I see from many of the post, racism is alive and well in Bim!
There is alot of hate in barbados coming from intelligent people who should know better especially since they also profess to be christian!
No one has taken Sir Roy Trotman to task for the comment he made recently about Barbadian of indian descent ( Indo Barbadians or what have u but Bajans nonetheless) where he implied that they were not from here! He ought to be ashamed!
Dear Me,
I have too been shocked at the hatred and racism. I too find it deeply unchristian, from people who claim to be christians and odd given that the real power and ownership in Barbados has been unchanged for too long.
However, what I have also noticed is that there are actually only a few progenitors of this racist crap, they seem like more but it is because they act like bullies. I am beginning to realise also that a few of these do not live in Barbados.
It is important however, to avoid the Barbados name being soiled, to avoid the development of disharmony where there is harmony, that people like you object to racism wherever we see it and from whichever direction.
It is appalling to see that people here in the 21st century are undoing the very fabric of society with small minded racism. Many people have fought long and hard to put an end to what you are encouraging.
It is disturbing to read posts by the likes of Bimbro who has the gall to make statements such as “TYPICAL, INDIAN BEHAVIOUR” and “WORRYING BOUT MY ‘OWN’ PEOPLE” You want better for one race, yet you make assumptions about another? You still think in terms of who is “your” people and who is not, instead of what is good for ALL people regardless of race?
Carry on my friend. I hope your attitude is not indicative of your fellow countrymen because if it is, Barbados and other nations that think in similar fashion will be stuck as second class pits for a very long time to come. I know I for one will have second thoughts about visiting or investing my money in your land.
Disgusting!
Yesterday the Police Southern Division announced a break through in the recent spate of burglaries and other crime in the St Phillip and Christ -Church area.
Guess what? Of the 3 persons arrested 2 were guyanese one Adrian singh and a mr de lacruz.The other was a 17 year old from st Phillip.
When David from BU introduced this topics and others raised concern here and the other related topics about the level of crime and other illegal activity by guyanese here in Barbados – there were persons who tried strenously to protest – suggesting instead that we should maintain the staus quo – and allow these large number of guyanese to remain.
Today the fact bears out the concern of those that were expressed by some.
Yet this news came as no surprise because a quick glance of the newspaper over the last 2 years showed the evidence of this criminal activity largely by guyanese.
I am watching to see what Prime Minister David Thompson will do.
More importantly however,the fact that guyanese were able to get bajans to buy stolen laptops from them off the streets of Bridgetown – tell us the extent to which barbadians have lost their sense of pride in their country,their sense of loyalty to country and the level to which this country has fallen.
This is played out every day across this island,where bajans knowingly hire illegal guyanese to work on their houses,to clean their homes and to prostitute for them.
Bajans are still renting out their rooms to illegal guyanese,even renting out their pig pens.
Immigration officers are stilling allowing guyanese women into this country in exchange for sex and money.
Guyanese will not be able to remain in this country if barbadians don’t rent them their houses,allow their children to get into our schools even though they are here illegally,or allow them to come here just to have babies who can get bajan citizenship.
We bajans are our worse enemies and will severely pay for our actions -ONE DAY COMING SOON.
Let’s come together and pray for a cleasing and healing; for the leadership of Guyana and ALL the people of Guyana. We must forgave each other and repent for the sins of our ancestors, who have left these doors opens for us to close.Let’s pray for those who are leaders, will lead with the fear and reverence of God the Creator of us all and all things. There need to be a total cleasings, and the tearing down of those demonic spirit of discord, confusion, idolatry, fear and binding up the those spirit of separation and death that’s roaming around Guyana.
” Why can we ALL get along”to quote from the Dr. Odida Quamina’s book, Mine Workers in Guyana. We need to heal our spirits, repent, forgave and pray daily for Guyana’s restoration.
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Anonymous and Bimbro – the two o’ you sick no rass!!
All we need in this country is a dozen like the two o’ you and we name will go down the drain as uneducated 18 century racist fools.
Is better the 2 o’ you never return to this country. Asses!!
some of the most disgusting racist comments, black nazis
The above are some recent action by some of your heroes in Guyana.
If you indians stop bringing in the cocaine and selling it to the negroes then a lot of our caribbean countries would be a much safer place.
You created a monster by your treatment and hatred of these blacks and now they have turned on you – well these are the brakes – LIVE WITH IT.
Remember Roger khan – the biggest drug pusher in guyana?
Remember dole chaddee – the biggest drug pusher in Trinidad?
What do they have in common? – they are all indians who brought in drugs and took it to the african neighbourhoods and enticed young men and women to not only be their dealers but their users as well – so as to ensure a ready supply of users.
They started pushing it at the secondary schools – and only to african children – well my friend – the chickens have come home to roost.
What goes around comes around!
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Listen here Anonymous, you don’t have the balls to even identify who you are.
As for drug dealing. You out a your twisted mind. All over the world Africans and whites are selling and using drugs. I have seen this so mant times in my life, I take it for granted now.
I thinik it is unfortunate that this is happening among Africans. The problem is that other African asses like you don’t help the situation becaus eyou deny it’s reality or blame it on someone else.
I am not surprised that you think your views are rational because you are sick. But thankfully Barbados doesn’t have many like you and thank goodness Africans like you are the minority.
Most are very intelligent people who of course have a lot of hurt and anger to deal with. But that’s another story.
I congratulate you for being so bold as to call some of the african majority population asses in their own country of which you have been welcomed.
For it was these african asses who took you hungry and destitute and starving from guyana and elsewhere, and showed you a standard of living that you didn’t think possible.
Here in barbados we refer to your ethnic group – in particular those in the van trade in cheap trinkets as – ‘the coolie man’.
So I will of course affectionately say to you ‘coolie man’ – rest assured – ‘day does run ’til night ketch it’.
You might just find that some of these african asses are not so stupid after all.
Anonymous that the view all other groups have of black people all over trhe world.The sad thing about it we do not retaliate we just allow those comments to passed.I am angry as hell that I do not know what to say. A hungry starving uneducated Indo- Guyanese could come into Barbados and insult black Barbadians this way what I will do with him and other Indo-Guyanese I cannot say on this blog.I leave it for “Fine Man”Rawlins and the rest to do for me.
These uneducated backward stupid ass indo-guyanese who do not have anything to offer Barbados are insulting us that is unthinkable.We do need their carpentry and masonry skills .We have the skilled Barbadians artisans graduating from the Polytechnic every year,What the hell stinking indo-guyanese could offer us nothing.The only thing the indo guyanese women could offer is their bodies.Nothing else.Indo-guyanese you all are burden to the Caribbean not only Barbados but all the other Caribbean countries.you all are nothing but nuisances..Go back to Guyana build up your country,educate your people and become productive Caribbean & South American citizens.You all nuisances.
first thing bajans stop calling y’all self negro use the word african. Y’all ain’t realised we african chasing them outta guyana we don’t want them here either. the people are a pain in the ass. they have destroyed this country and our solution is to send them away we are glad they leaving right now. and i don’t expect Barbados to accept them either all indo-guyanese women are whores the white men here pimp them out one at a time i suggest the black men there just use deh asses. them ship them back 2 india cause we don’t want them here either.
There are people in every community, every country who have selfish reasons to make situations worse, even if it means filling their own people’s head with destructive thoughts. There are others who try to live correctly and make the world a better place to live in. These two types of people, the latter being decent hard-working people belong to every race, religion, country and economic group – unfortunately so does the former group who are the racist, greedy, trouble-makers who have criminal tendencies. These are like the new plague in our societies who try to justify their criminal and racist minds.
The reason people would call many of your ideas backward is that you choose the lazy ignorant path of evil. It takes too much time and effort to to the correct thing and seek the truth about the situations in these countries.
I know for most of you,who have chosen this path of ignorance but aggression and racism for you and your family and the country, that you have chosen to do the wrong thing for selfish reasons.
Enjoy your life
Indo-Guyanese // May 2, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Stop it you are the ones selling cocaine to my friends on the block how dare you have the audacity to be so bold as to insult and redicule your customers.
We waking up ya know slowly but surely!
Stupse wannah is something else for trut!
When I say customers I dont mean cocaine addicts I mean those persons who give you 5 and 10 dollars or even more when the days come that when you all get home you all have 3 and 4 thouand dollars dont bull shit us!
Wanna barking up the wrong tree ya know! Watch and see wanna asking for trouble!~
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