Danger of Buying Chicken from Supermarket

Submitted by Robert D. Lucas, PH.D and CFS, Food bio-technologist

Over a two-week period in July 2019, I purchased four frozen chickens (1.8 kg each) at different times from a Supermarket which had them on a special sale, at about ten-dollars lower than those held on the chill-counter. It was obvious that the birds had been held on the chill-counter and then transferred to the cold-storage for freezing: As there was some dispute about the frozen state of the first one purchased (it was semi-frozen and according to the check-out did not meet the conditions of the special, which specified frozen and was still in the livery of the company that produced and packed it). There were no untoward problems with the first three birds (sensory appraisal-smell was normal and there was no surface slime caused by Pseudomonas spp. and other cold tolerant microbes). The final bird purchased was thawed in several changes of water at ambient temperature and after ninety-minutes eviscerated. There were visible as well as sensory signs of microbial contamination of the inserted offal meats. The following is written from a food safety and consumer aspect.

In an article written by me and published in the Advocate of the 25th. July 2001, under the caption “Just how safe is the meat we import?” I replied to some comments made by Dr.Trevor King, the senior veterinarian officer where he asserted that: “labeling of meats with the country of origin was needed, especially in cases of imported poultry (chicken). He alluded to the practice of thawing and refreezing of imported poultry and that to prevent the practice, it was necessary to stop the importation of large amounts poultry at any one time.” I pointed out that the Food Safety Inspection Service (FSIS) of the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) had verified the safety and wholesomeness of meat thawed and refrozen several times once the process was done under refrigerated conditions (under these conditions there are some losses in water- and salt-soluble proteins content of the meat). I, however agreed with him that there was a need for proper labeling so that the consumer could make informed choices as to whether or not to purchase the product. At that time, representatives of the Barbados Agricultural Society (BAS) were hollering and keeping a lot of noise over the need to ban the thawing and refreezing of poultry meat. The BAS also claimed that there was no real market for frozen poultry; that Barbadians preferred the chill product.

What I am concerned about in this instance is the absence of labeling, indicating that the product was held for three-five days on the chill-counter before being held under cold storage conditions. I have no problem with the practice since the birds were slaughtered and packed under hazard analysis critical control point (HACCP) conditions and (because the micro-flora presence are relatively harmless and are easily destroyed by adequate cooking and Barbadians over cook their foods) I am averse to the wastage of food, but the consumer must be informed. It is noticeable that the BAS (the hypocrites) are not hollering and shouting about this practice. As a matter of fact, there seems to be a lot of frozen chicken on the market these days. I wonder how many Barbadian consumers have given thought about what was done with chickens held on the chill-counter that were not sold by the “best before date”? Supermarkets need to pay attention to the refrigeration load requirement of their cold storage rooms. The rate at which heat must be removed from a refrigerated space in order to maintain a desired temperature is known as refrigeration load. It is dependent on several factors, including the volume of the space being cooled and the quantity and base temperature of items inside. Cold storage equipment in Supermarkets are only capable of slow freezing: this, therefore means that microbes tolerant to cold conditions have the time needed to grow and proliferate. When chilled chickens are placed on the cold storage, their temperature has to be pulled down from chilled to frozen and this takes time. Over packing the cold storage, affects the refrigeration load and the compressor might not have the rated tonne of refrigerant to do the job. It is best to use sharp freezing (blast freezer) to rapidly pull down the temperature and Supermarkets as a rule do not possess sharp freezing equipment( the processing plants do).

There are many methods available to detect the wholesomeness of refrigerated meats. The ATP (adenosine tri-phosphate) method is one that can be used. All living organisms produce ATP; the greater the ATP content, the greater the microbial load (amount of microbes present). In this case one would have to use an internal/external standard which measures the ATP content of birds which are wholesome and compare the ATP values against those of adulterated birds. Alternatively, one can use the electronic nose (consist of bio-sensors) programmed with the various molecules that are found in putrefying meats,to detect spoiled frozen meat products ( such as diseased birds which have died) and are sold to the public.

44 thoughts on “Danger of Buying Chicken from Supermarket

  1. Chicken is as bad as pork and is therefore unfit for human consumption.

    Like the swine, it eats anything, indiscriminately.

    No wonder national health indices are progressively worse.

  2. Typical Bajans are this day discussing ‘head and gut’ issues

    Atypical of the Bajan, today marks the end of the INF treaty

    The abolition of the Intermediate-range Nuclear Forces (INF) treaty brings the world much nearer to a zero-hour scenario.

    There is enough blame to go around on both sides, in this instance. It however follows a familiar pattern of militarism, belligerence and fecklessness coming from the West.

    We await the great mushroom which will eliminate all chickens ……………. and chicken hawks.

  3. @ Pacha

    How would you like if you spend your time writing on any of your geopolitical topics and then your efforts are considered unimportant?
    David recently talked about changing the blog and you immediately agreed.
    Dr Lucas has been trying to enlighten us in his field and I have read several of his articles outside of BU as well.
    Let us not treat each other in this manner.
    Bajans are not ignorant of the world but there has always been a reluctance to delve into matters that they believe should be left to the academics.
    I have never seen on BU this response to others, who like Dr. Lucas , are qualified in their field and usually try to enlighten and engage us.
    Pacha you must continue to enlighten us on your points of interest; so must Jeff and Dr. Lucas. All three of you display tremendous intellect.
    I have read several informative pieces where you and Dr. Lucas either agreed or at least agreed to respectfully disagree. As BU goes forward , we need the learned from all fields.
    Thanks Dr. Lucas for sharing your experience with the chicken .

  4. Sir William Skinner

    We are at a lost as to how your staid and misguided critique could be directed at us.

    This topic was about chicken and we talked about chickens and chicken hawks,

    You have no current basis on which to presume to bring us to heel.

    Permit us to know better.

    We certainly have no axe to grind with Lucas or anybody else

  5. Sir William

    On the matter of how blogs are run.

    We were asked for an opinion. That our opinion was anathema to yours should never be unexpected.

    But you did come to that issue with clean hands. There was a presumption that you were a fit and proper person to sit in judgement. Is there not one of your much favoured contradictions there.

  6. Thanks to Dr Lucas as well. I have already printed his as usual erudite comment and filed it away for future reference. i can attest to his knowledge on the subject since i have often sought his guidance whenever there is uncertainty in my mind about the fitness of a meat product for consumption

  7. @ Pacha
    You said it’s “typical” of Bajans to discuss head and gut issues.
    You said it’s atypical of Bajans to look at the end of the INF.
    Obviously you don’t think that I know what typical and atypical mean!
    On the matter of the blog , why could you not just write an article on the INF rather than try to imply it was a more relevant topic than that offered by Dr. Lucas?
    There is no contradiction on my endorsement of the direction the blogmaster intends to take.
    I hope inclusive of the new direction he would not allow topics and threads to be hijacked.
    I intend to move toward a vegetarian diet , so I find Dr.Lucas’ info quite encouraging.
    I also note that you have long been a proponent of healthy eating habits. A simple pat on the back of Dr. Lucas would have been proper.

  8. For nearly 40 years this writer has not been a vegetarian but a vegan.

    Also, we are much more familiar about the food hygiene standards raised by Lucas than most would presume, being certified as a food handler in two separate jurisdictions. Though currently unpracticed.

    We don’t know how much more bad food Bajans could eat. Maybe the old adage of what don’t kill yuh does mek yuh strong has some validity, but we highly doubt.

    You Skinner, have eaten more fried chicken wid beer than most, in your time.

    That chicken would have avoided the basis handling procedure that food has to be either cold, at the right temperature, as noticed by Lucas, or hot. And would have so done from before hatching.

    But even after cooking the chicken, which you have eaten for decades from Edit’s glass case, though the bacteria would have been largely killed, the residue left behind from multiplying, and which is toxic, remains harmful because heat does not kill it. All of that would have accumulated in your system over the years Sir William!

    We would wager that over 90% of the meat products in the food chain have some degree of contamination.

    The markets are opening, Can’t deal wid more.

  9. Good information from scientist Lucas as usual communicated in easy to understand text. The challenge here is that we have no vibrant consumer body in Barbados neither is there the confidence in government agencies responsible for ensuring QA. Then there is the proliferation of backyard slaughtering and what this adds to the mix.

  10. @ David BU

    Surely there is not much if any backyard slaughtering in Barbados.. In days of your there was seldom any food poisoning from such a practice. The meats were marinated and cooked within 24 hours.

    • @Vincent

      The backyard slaughtering is on a bigger scale, not referring to individual households killing the odd fowl or duck.

  11. @ David BU

    So not even that section of the Law is being enforced? We are certainly not ready for self governance. We are all falling asleep at the wheel. What a waste of taxpayers expenditure on health and education!

    We are indeed a failing state.

  12. Backyard slaughtering disappeared in the 70’s after the conveyances for new developments e.g. Regency Park and Sheraton Park prohibited the keeping of household domestic animals except dogs and cats. The Gov’t in the interests of health, imposed restrictions on local butchers to ensure that a sick animal was not suddenly slaughtered thereby reducing losses that an owner may incur if they had a dead animal on their hands.

    Ptomaine poisoning was quite common but many people shrugged it off until the next time, “touch pork” was regarded as a delicacy, one of the best indicators of spoilt food is your nose, trust your olfactory receptors they will never lead you astray.

    BTW does the same freeze/thaw cycle pertain to fish? There are several instances of frozen fish being thawed and sold as “fresh”

  13. @ Sargeant August 2, 2019 11:47 AM

    Ptomaine poisoning is an archaic name for food poisoning. In the Barbados instance it was normally associated with fish, especially by those living near the beach. In the case of fish ptomaine.The affected fish is odor and taste free: the toxic compound which is formed by microbial action on amino acids: the amino acid is cleaved and part of the carboxylic acid functional group of the amino acid is removed giving rise to histamines which causes an allergenic reaction. The end product is resistant to heat and cold treatment. In fish, temperature abuse is the causative factor in the formation of histamine. It is therefore suggested that fish be held below 5°C (41° F) to prevent histamine formation. Fish commonly associated with ptomaine poisoning are: tuna, mahi-mahi, mackerel, marlin, bluefish, amberjack, and abalone( they are called scombroids). Cooking does not degrade the toxin.

    “touch pork”was regarded as a delicacy ; they were fortunate that at that time E.coli one of the main organisms responsible for the histamine formation did not possess the plasmid that causes Hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS). Escherichia coli (E. coli) O157:H7 or other Shiga toxin-producing E. coli kill by causing kidney failure.

    @Pachamama August 2, 2019 9:24 AM

    Microbes are also present on fruits and vegetables; I am sure you are aware of this. The microbiome (the name given to the mass of microbes present in the gut which is considered to be an organ) exerts a powerful influence on the general well being of human beings and is an area of intense research at present..Do not be like the Luddites. You seemed to be perturb about wars and rumors of war. All I can say to you as a skeptic is “Oh ye of little faith”.

  14. Robert Lucas:

    If you saw what we do, beyond the public actions of the leaders of major countries, you would be worried as well.


    Yes the microbiota is consider a second brain. It is what is at work whenever you say you have a gut feeling. Of course, there are some reductionists here on BU who would call this kind of thinking as unscientific, in the least.

    When they do this they are expressing the dead-end thinking of western science. In this, Easterners have much to teach us about the absence of such human limitations.

    These are the good microorganisms – bacteria, fungi, archaea and single- celled eukaryotes, protozoa

    We are never afraid to accept your counsel.

  15. Robert Lucas

    Thanks for your two submissions. They were very educational as usual. I was not aware that the dangerous form of the E.Coli microbe was a recent development/ discovery..

  16. David

    No thanks, that’s junk for us.

    90% of our food is raw and alive.

    Cooking kills too many nutrients.

    Nearly a raw foodist.

  17. Wuh loss . What menus David BU and Pacha exposing in this Blog.?These are starvation diets. You all practicing for a further down turn in this economy or what?

  18. Backyard slaughtering is indeed back. My uncle does it for the family and others in the surrounding areas. Plus there are about two others that I am aware of. They still engage the pork. My aunt before she had her stroke used to go collect the head and belly for her weekly pudding and souse. This was up to last year.

  19. @ Dr Robert Lucas

    You deserve the new honours when they are first given.

    Keep up the great work in educating the masses.

  20. Thanks Dr. Lucas. Good comment from an expert in the field.

    @Pachamama August 2, 2019 7:15 AM “Typical Bajans are this day discussing ‘head and gut’ issues.”

    Food/head and guts issues are IMPORTANT issues. We eat food from the day we are born, until the day that we die. That lifelong relationship makes food important.

    And in any event Pacha, if you are dead from a nuclear bomb, or dead from eating bad chicken, you are still dead, dead, dead.

    I suspect that more people have died from eating bad food, than from all the nuclear bombs in the world.

  21. Sir Simple

    We agree, food and water are most important.

    But we eat far too much and don’t drink enough water. And we shouldn’t eat and drink at the same time either.

    The tradition of three (3) square meals a day is far too much, especially for a sedentary lifestyle. In addition, hiding behind a mountain at meal times, in some competitive arena, is another dangerous tradition. Large meals before bedtime, and so on.

    One main meal a day even if grazing from time to time, or better yet, one meal every three days could better promote wellness and reverse health care expenditures.

    We know that no friends will be made here by having Bajan bellies question whether throats are cut. Vincent is already bawling fuh blue murder over the absence of flesh on his plate! LOL

    Sir Simple, we have no expectation of life everlasting. However, while here we would merely want to avoid the medical-pharmaceutical-industrial-complex.

    • @Pacha

      What is the story about water. Some say hydrate yourself with x amount of water daily other ssuggest you should drink when you are thirsty. May up your minds will you!

  22. @Pacha

    “or better yet, one meal every three days”
    You are not making many friends here. The lack of food may be affecting your thinking..
    Have a great day

  23. A policeman questioning a woman about sprays and oils that were found in her bag in Montego Bay, St James, on June 6, 2019. The woman was detained on suspicion of practising obeah.
    Obeah is in the news again, since Minister of Justice Delroy Chuck said earlier this month that he hoped to see the Obeah Act repealed. Responses have ranged from the attorney general’s claim that “obeah has always been known” to do “nothing but harm to others” to declarations that the law is a “discriminatory colonial anachronism” (@wcchen on twitter).
    As a historian, I have closely studied the legal regulation of obeah throughout the Caribbean, during slavery and after. I have reviewed reports of court proceedings, and debates in legislatures and in the press. This history shows that laws against obeah have worked to uphold colonial power and to harass poor people.
    Until the 1950s, Jamaicans were regularly prosecuted under the Obeah Act for all kinds of religious rituals. In the early 20th century, balm healers, Revivalists, Garveyites, and people who later joined with Leonard Howell to form Rastafari were all prosecuted for obeah, even though many of them were resolutely hostile to obeah themselves.(Quote)

    Obeah versus psychiatry. European science is not always best.

  24. David

    When we say water we generally mean liquids

    Generally 8 to 16 glasses per day or as other directed by an alternative nutritionist/dietitian

    Preferably filtered if from tap, or coconut water, green juices, berries juices etc. Juicers are fairly popular these days.

    Water or liquids are very important for all bodily functions

  25. Who buys in the Massa market in Warrens, buys only first-class quality. If you like it cheap, don’t be surprised if you get an enema.

    Barbados is a premium island, so you should only buy premium.

  26. @ Tron August 3, 2019 12:05 PM

    You seem to equate cheap with poor quality. I am afraid I have to disabuse you of the notion. One should purchase food based on the nutritive value per dollar spent. I will give an example. You are presented with two oranges each of equal mass and of the same cultivar: however one orange is scarred with blemishes and is offered for sale at 25 cents, whereas the other blemish free is offered at 75 cents. Since the nutritive values are the same, purchasing the unblemished orange means paying thrice as much per unit of nutrition as one would expend if the scarred orange were purchased.. In food one should always purchase based on the average cost per unit of nutrition.

  27. I have had to engage a local supplier on more than enough occasions to conclude that firstly the supplier doesn’t pay enough attention to the quality meat offered for sale,secondly,the excuse that the bird might show black areas on the legs,wings,breast is owing to handling and trucking and thirdly offering a frequent observer and complainer of these blemishes that the meat is not grade A meat as confirmed by the supplier’s marketing officer,that the solution was to offer me 6 birds free of cost so as to satisfy my many complaints backed up by photos of the birds.That led me to stop eating chicken because I am convinced that all is not well in this chicken industry and it’s a lot to do with failure to oversee the entire process from start to finish.Oversight within the processing plant and oversight by the Health Authorities.No chicken meat should have black marks at all.

  28. @ Gabriel August 4, 2019 5:19 PM
    The black coloration in the case described can be attributed to two causes.

    The long bones of the thighs and leg are not fully developed by the time of slaughter. You would have noticed that the areas at the ends of these bones are soft and easily gnawed upon. These non-ossified regions are for expansion of the bone as growth and development continues until full development is attained when ossification occurs and the ends hardens( no more growth is possible).Since the ends are porous red blood cells( note blood cells are formed by the marrow) can migrate through the porous ends. If subject to slow freezing as occurs in home freezers or Supermarkets cold storage units, large ice crystals are formed. On subsequent thawing, the ice crystals rapture the red blood cells. The element iron is found in hemoglobin and on heating (baking) the iron is reduced to the ferrous state which results in the black coloration. The process can also be an indication of repeated freezing and thawing. The coloration is harmless.

    The other form of discoloration is caused by freezer burn: in this case there is movement of moisture from the carcass into air in the freezing chamber. Can be prevented by ensuring that the correct plastic film is used or by increasing the humidity of the freezing chamber. It is harmless but some what unsightly.

  29. Dear Dr Lucas

    A very well put together and presented article on a very pertinent and hardly address topic. I say hardly address because I am surprise to see the few who would questioned our food hygiene practices on the basis of ”followed acceptable standards” and the reinforcement of those standards to ensure food remains safe and wholesome.

    I also have to question the inspection procedures of our regulatory and enforcement agencies because there are a lot of instances of bad food handling practices that seem not to come under their radar.

    To provide you with one example, and to digress a bit, I am appalled- bitterly- with the manner in which we handle, store, and present fish for human consumption. This is an industry that in my opinion is an accident waiting to happen.

    There seems to be know followed Food and Personal Hygiene Standards in place and a lot of consumers including me have complained for purchasing fish that was of a very poor quality, only to be told by the sellers that it was our fault for keeping the fish in the back of our cars for too long.

    I have commented extensively on this topic on the nationnews blog, and ask the authorities responsible, why are the eyes closed to the plight of fish, poorly maintained fish markets, and disgusting handling practices by its sellers and processors.

    The situation has been like this for many years and has not changed even though the government sought to improve market facilities by building the Oistins and Bridgetown Fish Markets several eons ago.

    Perhaps you can make this a topic for discussion so your science can be brought to the forefront once again.

    Best Regards

    Lloyd P Gulston

  30. @ Lloyd P Gulston August 5, 2019 4:43 AM

    I have written extensively on fish handling at the markets in Barbados. I have also taught the hazard analysis critical control point (HACCP) system to the environmental (public)health students at the Barbados Community College. As a matter of fact ,for one end of semester examination, I set the Bridgetown fish market for the students to critically examined for breaches of HACCP. There were about ten critical control points and the students correctly pointed that the market failed all of them. I wrote about it in an article in the “Barbados Advocate” and Mr. Tony Marshall moderating the call-in program “Down to Brass Tacks) commented on it, especially the part where I stated Barbados could not export fish to the UK or the European Union (EU) because the fish markets were not up to mark. This drew the ire of James Paul ( a man who is not competent to have any say on agriculture( he has no training in the field) but who hollers and keeps a lot of noise. Subsequently, it was published in the press that Barbados’ fish markets were not up to mark and fish could not be exported to the EU. Marshall on the call-in program called on Paul to apologize. Recently, the markets are scheduled for some upgrading: the Minister responsible grudgingly remarked on the need for the markets to be totally enclosed . As you alluded to, it is the workers who have to practice good manufacturing habits and that is going to take a lot of time. I have told the students not to accept gifts from plants they are inspecting. It compromises their ability to make correct and hard but needed decisions about closing down businesses.

  31. @ Lloyd P Gulston

    You have to understand the following: some of the inspectors look the other way when it comes to enforcement. The reasons are simple. After closing down a food establishment, by the time they reach back to their office, they are confronted by a superior who has already received a complaint from the offending food establishment. The junior officer is told to rescind the close down notice. I have told the students to get any such rescind order in writing. Of course you also have those who are on the take.

    • @Dr. Lucas

      Will highlight your comment about the fish later. If you want to brush it up and email the blogmaster please do.

  32. You have to understand the following: some of the inspectors look the other way when it comes to enforcement. The reasons are simple. After closing down a food establishment, by the time they reach back to their office, they are confronted by a superior who has already received a complaint from the offending food establishment. The junior officer is told to rescind the close down notice. I have told the students to get any such rescind order in writing. Of course you also have those who are on the take.




  33. @ David

    Just checked and have located two articles on the fish. Will send them off by e-mail most likely tomorrow.

  34. Dear Dr Lucas

    Thank you for your response. I would very much be interested in reading those articles.

    in response to what you wrote, I decided to take a look back down memory lane to see what was said about inspection procedures and the knowledge behind those inspection procedures in order to arrive at a fair assessment that does not paint a wrong picture of our public health agencies. I found the following articles on the nationnews online sight

    A. 1/2m fish may go,

    Added September 13, 2013

    Over 500 000 flying fish may have to be dumped following discovery of contamination by health officials over the last several days.

    B. Yes to fish checks!
    Maria Bradshaw, Added 05 May 2013

    As officials move to enforce rules on the handling and storage of fish at markets, a major fish processor says there should be no “let up” of inspections at markets. Jonathan Morgan, He said the quality control officers employed by Government were “highly qualified personnel” who knew what they were doing.

    By mialisafenty, Added March 04, 2014

    FISHERFOLK have been given the next 12 days to remove from all fish markets the steel trolleys they use to transport fish.

    The few articles I pulled from the nationnews website is suggesting that you have a set of inspectors (Quality Control Officers) in the market that are highly trained and knowledgeable about the science of fish, sanitary and phytosanitary concepts, fish and food hygiene science and fish inspection procedures. If these persons are so highly trained, why have situations in the fish markets not change under them or respective governments?

    You have highlighted a few reasons why you think the fault might not lie with the inspectors but those who are over the inspectors. I am still incline to think that if these professionals have put forward their cases for improving the fish markets and nothing changes, they should execute the science behind reasons for keeping sections of these markets closed until the authorities get the message. I am sure that public health legislation or whatever legislation governs them, gives them the power (in some cases) to seize, condemn, destroy, and provide notice to an establishment to get their act and house in order in given time period as long as the evidence is clear and overwhelming. I found two articles that prove that the inspectors have executed their authority to shut sections of the market if not the entire market to rectify sanitation concerns.

    D. Lockout angers fish vendors
    By beadottin, Added June 15, 2018

    Some vendors at the Bridgetown Fish Market were left out to sea after an inspector closed the stalls on Friday.

    E.Market uproar
    By marciadottin, Added March 06, 2014

    UPSET AND ANGRY. That’s how fish vendors at the Bridgetown Fisheries Complex reacted yesterday after health authorities unexpectedly closed the market for a general cleaning.

    Over many years elected governments have neglected the landing sites they have created for the retail, wholesale, processing and auctioning of fish. This reluctancy to not spend the millions needed to upgrade fish markets at a time when Barbados was in position to do so is absolutely mind-boggling. It would appear that the inspectors have been doing their jobs and the authorities have been playing around with the politics. It would be good to show them the statistics that says fish markets need financial input because the consumption of fish is only a ‘sound bite’ behind the consumption of chicken and pork.

    So, you are perfectly right. It cannot be the inspectors that are not doing their jobs, and I am not going to subscribe to the possible fact that some of them are compromised to look the other way even though that maybe so. I believe after trying, one can easily become frustrated when the authorities lack the gumption to assist.

    Perhaps the situation involves to much politics that is interfering with the day to day operations of experts who are trying to make better under a system that should be supporting their efforts instead of suppressing them. A case of too many cooks thinking they know what is best for the meal ahh!

    I look forward to reading your two articles on fish.

    Best regards

    Lloyd P Gulston

  35. ” however one orange is scarred with blemishes and is offered for sale at 25 cents, whereas the other blemish free is offered at 75 cents. Since the nutritive values are the same, purchasing the unblemished orange means paying thrice as much per unit of nutrition as one would expend if the scarred orange were purchased.. In food one should always purchase based on the average cost per unit of nutrition.”

    Bob to inject a little humour into your as usual erudite discourse- In our day unlike country boys like codrington fruit like oranges were not as plentiful for us town boys except from the abundance of the left over “touch” oranges thrown away as unfit for sale by the hucksters from the the low islands as we referred to them plying their trade in Jessamine lane. Blemished fruit was not an issue of sale in those days. It was whether they were half rotten which we referred to as ‘touch’. i ask you if the “touch’ oranges we ate at that time had in the same nutrition value as the “untouched” ones.

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