est. 2007

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Bishop Joseph Atherley Saves the Day!

“Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends [country]” (John 15:13) – Fr. Augustine Vallooran VC

The unprecedented 30-0 victory by the Barbados Labour Party (BLP) at the polls on 24 May 2018 created a Constitutional crisis UNTIL St. Michael West M.P. solved the problem by agreeing to be Leader of the Opposition.

Events to date confirm that the decimation of the Democratic Labour Party (DLP) caught even the BLP leadership by surprise- tinkering with the Constitution – always a messy business – with a basket of pressing issues to confront from Day 1 is not what Prime Minister Mia Mottley has the appetite for at this time.

In the short term Atherley has made the sacrifice to cross the floor to assume the Leader of the Opposition role. His monthly salary will jump from 60K to 129K per annum but this is the smaller issue. He has averted the need for Mia to tangle with the issue of making deep amendments to the Constitution of Barbados at an early stage in her administration. Ask yourself, which member of parliament crosses the floor after one week of being elected without first declaring his grievances to his constituents and the wider public as a matter of courtesy?

Atherley’s decision to assume the Opposition role is obviously strategic. A ‘sympathetic’ leader of the Opposition in the House of Assembly opens up a pathway for Prime Minister Mia Mottley to attack governance issues, more importantly it removes the nettlesome issue of making significant amendments to the Constitution at an early period in her tenure.

The blogmaster is pleased that the citizens of Barbados have a front row seat to observe the fragility of the democracy we practice exposed. It should be a learning opportunity we grasp with both hands. A past US President Thomas Jefferson is credited with saying that “Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom”.  Now more than ever in our history if the democracy we practice is to work as envisaged by the framers of the Constitution, people and stakeholder participation will be critical. The level of apathy and disaffection by citizens is well documented on BU’s pages.

We need to participate in our government in ways we have not done up to now.  We hope Bishop Joseph will live up to the biblical meaning of his name.

325 responses to “Bishop Joseph Atherley Saves the Day!”

  1. charles skeete Avatar
    charles skeete

    “Whenever the Governor-General has occasion to appoint a Leader of the Opposition he shall appoint the member of the House of Assembly who, in his judgment, is best able to command the support of a majority of those members who do not support the Government, or if there is no such person, the member of that House who, in his judgment, commands the support of the largest single group of such members who are prepared to support one leader: “[Emphasis added]

    I am still to be convinced that His Grace Bishop Atherley qualifies for the appointment to the post of Leader of the Opposition under the above Section.

    First of all, the Bishop is on record as saying he does not oppose the Government.
    Secondly, there is no evidence to suggest that he is best able to command the support of a majority of those members who do not support the Government because there is no such majority of opposing members.
    Thirdly, there is no largest single group from which he can command support.
    So unless i can be otherwise persuaded i am of the firm view that the Governor-General erred in appointing Mr Atherley.
    True, one can posit that had the DLP had one seat, then that person would have been appointed Leader of the Opposition but that would not have made it right if the above Section as it stands was strictly adhered to.
    So in conclusion, in my view the above section is flawed and is in need of amendment to address the anomaly which currently exists in the Constitution regarding the appointment of a one man Leader of the Opposition and to satisfactorily accommodate such an appointment.
    A further observation suggests that the Section is discriminatory as well in that i the language ascribes the post of Governor General to a male only rather than his/her.

  2. Prodigal Son Avatar
    Prodigal Son

    So the Governor General has decided that she will use her appointed Senators to be the Opposition?

    This is so blatant to see where her loyalties lies……..other than her former parish priest Michael Maxwell and Toni Moore these senators are all dems……….I thought that she was supposed to be appointing Independent people not party hacks……….and to bring Althea Wiggins back form being deputy High Commissioner straight into the senate?

    Where is the representative from the private sector? Or is she vexed that the private sector helped done in the DLP?

    ……….and dishonest VOB would not even say in their report that the woman was the former deputy only mentioned that she was out of the country and would be sworn in later………Does the same rule apply to her as Rawdon Adams and Kay McConney. After all she has not lived in Barbados for 12 straight months either or would there been exception for her that she was serving her country? So was Kay McConney!

    Looking back at this Joe Atherley situation, I am now inclined to believe that the BLP outsmarted her and that it was a deliberate move by the BLP………..otherwise look she would have had the opportunity to appoint her five or seven dems and then the other two that MAM was offering.

    I take back what I said about Atherley……….this was a boss move by the BLP…….two steps ahead the dems always.

  3. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ charles skeete June 4, 2018 11:35 AM
    “True, one can posit that had the DLP had one seat, then that person would have been appointed Leader of the Opposition but that would not have made it right if the above Section as it stands was strictly adhered to.”

    Outstanding submission!

    An eruditely-well argued case.

    You have done a far better job than can be expected from any of the fly-by-night ‘Constitutional ‘law gurus like Hal G. parading on Bajan TV with his LEC (Lost Every Case) designation in your face.

    All you have done is to identify one of the many innate shortcomings in a Constitution which has been imposed on a fledgling democracy whose masters at the time resided thousand of miles away with the expectation that the former colonial subjects would have been able to adhere not only to the letter but also the spirit enshrined in this ‘Barbadiana’ attempt of an imitation of the Magna Carta.

    Why not use the uniquely unanimous 30-0 opportunity to finally eliminate in order to rectify these anomalies?

    In the meantime what would you suggest be the way to get the Bajan system of governance on its go, given the many life or death challenges facing the nation?

    Who would you suggest ought to be the sacrificial lambs among those currently supporting the ‘government’ to give up their seats in the most magnanimous fashion so that a few good genuine men and women can be selected by the electorate by way of a few by-election so that one of them can be selected to be that Constitutionally-acceptable Leader of Opposition?

    Now you have three to choose from (other than the ‘Bishop’) who do not form the government, i.e. are not sworn-in members of the Executive.

    Are you persuaded by the anti-democratic argument (posited mainly by our in-house ‘John’) that the GG can overrule the will of the majority of the electorate/people and issue writs for a fresh set of general elections even in the absence that all members were duly elected without any reported evidence of widespread irregularities and or illegalities?

  4. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @Skeete, to what benefit this circuitous argumentation…a real tautology of saying of the same thing twice in different words.

    If a GG can “appoint the member of the House of Assembly who, in [her] judgment, commands the support of the largest single group of such members who are prepared to support one leader “ then why can’t the appointed leader lead a team on ONE…as in himself.

    Where does it state that the single group much be greater than one…yes it implies a quantity greater than one but does not mandate that.

    Where does it state that to oppose means to disagree with ALL policies of the government?

    And obviously he commands his own directives.

    There is nothing further to convince you or others about other than the simple and clear intent of the constitutional clause on this matter: The GG has the power to appoint the LOTO from among the group of elected MPs. Atherley is one such.

    She can appoint that person who she believes has the power to offer opposition to the govt legislative debate. Atherley also fits that bill as he ‘choose’ to cross the ‘floor’.

    Whether he agrees with all or some of the gov’t polices and whether the single largest group he leads is one or more MPs is not stipulated in the constitution as a REQUIREMENT for selection as LOTO.

    It is simply impractical to presume that the intent of an ‘opposition’ leader must of necessity be against all or ‘any’ gov’t policy as the very nature of Bajan life demands that different political groups agree on key policy ideas which benefit the country…opposition does NOT mean to simply say ‘No’ or ‘I do not agree’ to everything.

    One can question Atherley’s motives and that of the PM in this matter but on the basic face of the GG’s power to appoint or the ‘letter of the law’ re the LOTO status the argument has long now failed.

  5. David Avatar
    David

    Obviously the 30 sip result created a not so perfect situation, we have to make the best decision given the scenario.

  6. Sargeant Avatar
    Sargeant

    @Charles Skeete
    True, one can posit that had the DLP had one seat, then that person would have been appointed Leader of the Opposition but that would not have made it right if the above Section as it stands was strictly adhered to.
    ++++++++++++++++
    This is a unique situation that is “more honoured in the breach than in the observance”. When the DLP had two members Thompson was recognized as LOO although Kellman argued he should be LOO, in that instance Thompson didn’t have “the support of a majority of those members who do not support the Government”.

    For the sake of this fledgling democracy sometimes it’s best not to dot every Constitutional “I” or cross every Constitutional “T”.

  7. charles skeete Avatar
    charles skeete

    “You do have a point, Mr Skeete, albeit inchoate.The GG was entitled to query Bishop Atherley intensely as to whether he in fact was bona fide in his opposition to the government in the Lower House or whether it was a mere subterfuge, so as to satisfy herself before making the appointment”.

    I do agree that my point needed to be further developed and i was hoping that you would have assisted me in that regard. Yes, before appointing Bishop Atherley as Leader of the Opposition,the Governor General should have been presented with written evidence from Bishop Atherley confirming his severing of political and/or party connections with the BLP given his statement in the media that he would remain supportive of the policies outlined in the manifesto of the BLP.

  8. charles skeete Avatar
    charles skeete

    “For the sake of this fledgling democracy sometimes it’s best not to dot every Constitutional “I” or cross every Constitutional “T”.”

    Unfortunately, Sarge i never subscribed to the view that it is better to leave somethings unsaid and i spent many a evening in detention for saying things that the teacher felt should have been left unsaid.
    For the sake of this fledgling democracy it’s best to make wrong things right before we reach the point of no return.

  9. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    Steupsss

  10. charles skeete Avatar
    charles skeete

    “When the DLP had two members Thompson was recognized as LOO although Kellman argued he should be LOO, in that instance Thompson didn’t have “the support of a majority of those members who do not support the Government”.”

    There is no evidence to indicate that Mr Kellman opposed Mr Thompson’s appointment to the post of Leader of the Opposition when he was sworn in by the Governor General. So at the time of his appointment Mr Thompson did command the majority of members who opposed the Government. Discordant noises after the event by Mr Kellman were just that; since he remained one of the members led by Mr Thompson opposed to the Government.

  11. charles skeete Avatar
    charles skeete

    Steupsss

    Excellent contribution Bushie as bitter as the bush tea i have taken a liking to in recent months.

  12. Prodigal Son Avatar
    Prodigal Son

    Not true, CS……….it was common knowledge that Kellman and Thompson hated each other’s guts and Kellman was never going to support Thompson as his leader.

    Thompson was appointed LOO because the kingmakers in the party would never have accepted Kellman to lead EWB’s DLP.

  13. David Avatar
    David

    It is within the sole discretion of the GG to accept or reject. You are splitting hairs.

  14. charles skeete Avatar
    charles skeete

    “It is within the sole discretion of the GG to accept or reject. You are splitting hairs.”

    Of course it is providing her course of action is right. but you are entitled to your myopic view.

  15. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    Geezus David Mr Blogmaster. THANK YOU. Argumentation on this has become the proverbial circular satisfying session…

    Prime example of splitting ridiculous hairs: @Sarge noted quite clearly (backed by the evidence of the time) that DThomspon did NOT “command the support of the largest single group of such members who are prepared to support one leader” and yet was appointed LOTO.

    Mr Skeete in a remarkable example of double speak affirms rather amazingly that “[t]here is no evidence to indicate that Mr Kellman opposed Mr Thompson’s appointment to the post of Leader of the Opposition when he was sworn in by the Governor General.”

    DESPITE Kellman remarks at the time when surely he gave no support to Thompson in the house on several occasions thus clearly suggesting he gave no support prior to his appointment.

    Yet the blogger can find a rationale then but not one now. SMH.

    Inchoate does not start to describe this…we know that the GG was not satisfied that Bishop Atherley was in fact ” bona fide in his opposition to the government in the Lower House” because WHY? We are privy to the deliberations that took place, are we?

    Maybe Atherley was miffed that he was left on the back bench… who knows!

    Steeeupse, indeed.

  16. charles skeete Avatar
    charles skeete

    “Not true, CS……….it was common knowledge that Kellman and Thompson hated each other’s guts and Kellman was never going to support Thompson as his leader.”

    Might very well be true what you post but can only be regarded as speculative. Certain actions by Mr Kellman might have led the public to believe that he was unsupportive of Mr Thompson but he never drew it to the attention of the Governor General so to all intents and purposes Mr Thompson had his support which was the support of one opposed to the Government.

  17. David Avatar
    David

    @Dee Word

    You need to check Kellman’s Facebook timeline to verify that he and Thompson enjoyed an estranged arrangement.

  18. Sargeant Avatar
    Sargeant

    Thompson and Kellman- like oil and water. Kellman didn’t even campaign for the DLP when it needed his help to try to win the seat that David Simmons vacated to become CJ, remember Owen was his “cousin”?

    Thompson rewarded him by not giving him even a Parliamentary Sec. position when the DLP rose to power anyway that is water under a bridge somewhere, the point has been made that Kellman didn’t support Thompson.

  19. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    @ Sargeant,

    Don’t want to detract from the topic at hand but have you been following the Ontario elections ? Bare sport.

    https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/06/04/rob-fords-widow-sues-doug-ford-alleging-he-has-deprived-them-of-millions.html

  20. Sargeant Avatar
    Sargeant

    @Hants
    Saw it, how about this “Neither Doug Ford nor Randy Ford have the education and business ability to justify their employment as senior officers of Deco”, but Doug wants to be Premier.

  21. Prodigal Son Avatar
    Prodigal Son

    Bishop Atherley was again at Government House today wearing a red tie!

  22. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    It is REALLY hard to believe that Bajans can still be splitting hairs over such a SIMPLE matter – when in fact, we are about to face perils of unprecedented intensity …and where our chances of survival are very near to zero.
    The Lower house and senate are essentially debating organisations where various moots – hopefully of national import, are debated, refined, and then the laws and policies are made.

    Every debating organisation NEEDS to have a ‘proponent’ side …and an ‘OPPONENT’ side….else there would be no ‘Debates’ … just harangues and monologues. The RULES therefore stipulate that the thirty elected members be DIVIDED into proponents (Government policy makers) and opponents (who provide critical analysis and alternatives)
    Shiite man…
    Whether one ‘party’ wins all thirty ….or thirty parties win one each – this is how debates are STRUCTURED. The GG is tasked with the role of determining – in her best judgement – who should lead these two parliamentary fractions.
    How the Hell can this be a serious issue?

    What wunna SHOULD be concerned about is this situation where we have just elected a clearly more competent, and CERTAINLY more intelligent, set of brass bowls to take over the management of the Bajan Titanic….

    UNFORTUNATELY, this comes AFTER the iceberg has already ripped open the bow….

    …so whereas we stood idly by – for ten long years …and allowed a pack of demon-possessed jackasses to buldoze Barbados full steam through the icebergs …until the inevitable wreck…
    We have now organised a full mutiny …and installed a new set of ship officials -who admittedly seem to be much more coherent and rational….BUT can they control a stricken ship ….in turbulent seas….. with the bottom torn off….. and a full load of mendicant, lazy brass bowls on board …all looking for a free ride?
    …or will they just have the role of giving the orders to abandon ship…?

    For the last ten years – we allowed ourselves to be taken on a wild, reckless ride to certain calamity…
    Now we are gathered on the deck planning for a ‘future’ on a sinking Titanic….
    Too little … too late…

  23. T.Inniss Avatar
    T.Inniss

    Let Atherley continue with that red tie shite.He is antagonizing the people and don’t even realise it.

  24. Are-we-there-yet Avatar
    Are-we-there-yet

    Bushie

    You might be, as usual, on the right track but even though almost every rational indicator points to a coming chaos and possible catastrophic failures that will test everyone’s resolve, I have to believe that we might be able to still build some lifeboats that could get us through the very treacherous seas that surround us. Perhaps we needed a Freundal Stuart to get us to this sorry pass and a 30-1 defeat of the DLP to warn the BLP to tread softly and do the right things and a PM Mia to guide the boats through the most dangerous reefs to a safe harbour.

    Mia’s frenetic but focused activity over the last 12 or so days and Atherly’s masterful understanding of his destiny and his choice of Caswell and the GG’s quick acquiscent to do the essentially right things in a timely manner, except perhaps her appointment of a number of Independant senators who could easily pass as genuine DLP senators, seem to be steps guided by a Providence that is minded to help us to repair those lifeboats and bring us back to shore, not to lead us to a failed statehood.

    Barbados is almost certainly just days away from a totally unprecedented and extended nationwide night of pain. But Joy can still come in the morning.

  25. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ awty
    It is not for Bushie to take away your enthusiastic optimism. – far from it…
    So enjoy your whims of fancy.

    The FACT of the matter is that the battle that we face is not one that is winnable by ‘flesh and blood’ – not even by clearly talented and intelligent flesh and blood as exemplified by Mottley and some of her team.
    Wunna still don’t seem to get the NATURE of the challenge.

    Do you REALLY think that ANYONE could truly be as dense and as asinine as Froon and Stinkliar turned out to be for the last ten years? BOSS!! They HAD to have been ‘driven’, influenced, and guided….. and clearly NOT by righteous forces.

    Do you remember that Stinkliar ACTUALLY planned to :
    – spend hundreds of millions to buy an old abandoned hotel
    – spend millions more to demolish the thing
    – borrow hundreds of millions from China to rebuild the hotel
    – then to GIVE it to a Jamaican Bim-hater and international conman, who was best known for pissing on Paradise Beach – previously one of the best beaches in the WORLD.

    THAT ALONE should have told us that Stinkliar was possessed.

    Now we have gone to the other extreme and selected a highly intelligent, articulate and down-to-earth leader -but to do what?
    struggle with debts and decaying infrastructure?
    …to bring bad news to the brass bowl masses?
    …to apply the chemotherapy to the entrenched cancer?

    Look how they started…
    Appointing a whole set of lawyers to the various ministries and to the Senate
    …to do what?
    Lawyers are the most notoriously inefficient and pathetic class of professionals when it comes to management.
    Meanwhile…
    The national infrastructure is shot….. Sewerage, potholes, Sugar industry dead, hotel plant antiquated, parks in ruin…
    Are there any management /engineering thinkers in the national leadership team?

    Who are the national business gurus – with a history of success in promoting COMMUNITY-CENTRIC business developments?

    Finally, the REALITY that we face is a SPIRITUAL one….
    What are the plans in place to deal with this MAJOR battle front?

    The ONE good sign so far for Bushie is Caswell.
    If his appointment signals that DOING THE RIGHT THING is going to be the new way forward, and that righteousness will become a new national priority, then we MAY have a slight chance…. righteousness EXHAULTETH a nation….

    If however we listen to the buller-boy, Petra W, and take the attitude that ‘it is not worth the effort’ to bring JUSTICE to those who did shiite at the national level, because it can ‘cost more than we can recover…’
    …then our asses will DEFINITELY be mowable….

  26. pieceuhderockyeahright Avatar
    pieceuhderockyeahright

    “Minister in the Ministry of…”

    De ole man dies come here regularly and show how ingrunt I is.

    As Boreman does say regular bout de ole man “when is de last time you read a book…?”

    But I wants wunna to pause and examine that phraseology

    IT does NOT declare one to be the substantive minister NOR does it state that one IS NOT the Minister

    But what it has ostensibly created for the dim amongst us OF WHOM DE OLE MAN NUMBERETH AMONG THE MANY, a false impression of who is the Minister

    Now man of you would incorrectly ascribe that substantive role to that party.

    And even would attribute the fact that their pay confirms that titular position but here is where YOU AND EACH OF THEM IS COMPLETELY WRONG.

    Now de ole man would want to share WIGH wunna de tsar structure s was shown to the ole man by One Who Sees All but den wunna only going say dat de ole man bugging people property and eavesdropping pun wunna phone calls

    But I is tired right now and de medicine starting to kick in so I gine leave dat conversation till annuder time…

  27. Are-we-there-yet Avatar
    Are-we-there-yet

    Bushtea.

    I think we are essentially on the same page and I think we agree on who / what are the main protagonists in this battle. The transcendental fight of the Dualities between the forces of Good and Evil; Light and Darkness; Right versus Wrong; Service to Others vs Service to Self; etc. etc.

    I think that that fight is practically an everlasting one with neither side gaining a “game dun” advantage over the other, across the aeons of man’s history in the Cosmos. The advantage is always temporary and defines separate historical periods.

    The current situation in the US has so many parallels with our’s that it is somewhat scary to contemplate. In Barbados, my take is that we could be heading into a very active period but that the game is still in play. I think so because of the violent demise of the Stuart regime and the current counter moves which to my puny mind are sending a message that , if properly read, suggests that the new opposing team can yet gain the ascendancy, given the 30-0 victory and the ascendancy of Caswell. I don’t think that all this action is for naught. The forces of evil still have a fight on their hands. Their victory cannot be declared yet.

    In the US, it seems obvious that Donald Trump is no ordinary man. That he is actually spearheading a movement that is ethereally designed and inspired to drastically alter the status quo of Earth and its governance. But even that situation, although trending to the forces of wrong at this time and suggesting that he is trending to be successful in that etherial goal, is still far from completion.

    I think the situation is still fluid. Those inspired to put their individual efforts on either side can still have some effect on the eventual temporary interregnum. I don’t think anyone can, at this stage definitively declare victory for either side.

  28. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ awty
    Brilliant observations @6.07am Boss…
    Up there with Pacha …and you even see the ‘transcendental’ dimension…?!!!

    Shiite AWTY….. no wonder Barbados seems to be getting another chance for redemption (slim as it is…)
    If Sodom and Gomorrah could have found even five such persons – they could have kept their donkeys out of the grass…

    Not only is the battle that you describe above ‘everlasting’
    … it is the VERY PURPOSE for which the experience that we call ‘life on Earth’ has been conceived.

    See if you can wrap your mind around the fact that ‘winning’ is not so much about ‘living happily ever afterwards ..’,
    .. but all about refining DIAMONDS of character from among the minefields of heat, pressure, evil, and chaos that are NEEDED to create and produce such ‘diamonds’… just like with physical diamonds…. which then last FOREVER.

    You just ascended multiple grades in Bushie’s humble ratings…
    LOL
    ha ha ha

  29. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @Are-We, you are particularly hyperbolic and full of grand prose this bright morn.

    To anoint US Pres Trump as “no ordinary man” in such a shrill way does grave disservice to our stories of life.

    Trump is as extra-ordinary as any ‘strongman’ politician on the world stage. That he exudes this persona atop the presidency of the US does gives him the most bellicose position possible to appear to ‘drastically alter the status quo of Earth’ but lets stop there for a moment.

    Trump is currently no less dangerous that the powerful Putin who ‘quietly’ bestrides the world stage reestablishing his country’s doctrine and power. This man has been in power for 15 years now. He will be there for six more currently and after that for maybe 15 more. Unless he dies from accident or otherwise there are no practical reasons to stop his almost eternal rule.

    And then there is President Xi of China who definitely will have eternal rule atop an unstoppable world dominanting nation.

    Simply stated as much as we rightfully see the danger of Trump we are yet exaggerating his bullhorn narcissim publicity stunts and losing sight of the tremendous power these other dominant leaders are amassing and DISPENSING across the globe.

    Trump may be more than an ordinary man but there are others even more dangerous an extra ordinary than he is!

  30. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    Your point then Dribbles… is that AWTY is right about Trump …. but there are others who are even more ‘non-ordinary’ in global leadership positions….??!!??

    Would you care to speculate as to the common denominator in the ascent of these ‘extra-ordinary’ power brokers on the global stage…? …and on the apparent demise of wisdom and common sense from that stage…

    Or are you one of those who still cannot see that the fight which we face is NOT one about human frailties … but rather one of spiritual principalities and powers…. where we are mere pawns being played on a global chess board?

    For homework….
    Perhaps you can speculate on the history and current experience of Barbados in this global chess game….

  31. Are-we-there-yet Avatar
    Are-we-there-yet

    dpD, Yuh mite be rite:

    But I am talking about extraordinary forces that aligns the formerly unlikely President Trump, the one who won the Presidency against almost totally unsurmountable odds, with a Devin Nunes who fully and uncharacteristically has the power to prostrate the House Intelligence committee to Trump’s every nefarious need; with a House Republican caucus that does similarly; and with a Mitch McConnell senate that does the same. Surely the conjunction of these forces at this time is extraordinary, to say the least, and might be together pointing to higher forces at work.

    Surely also, despite what you say above about Putin and China. Trump’s policies on almost everyhing is anachronistic, anti all modern progress towards universal human rights and living in harmony with mother GAIA. In addition his possession of a Nuclear button that is bigger than all the others combined is scary, to say the least. Trump, imho, is a bit more than a parochial tyrant. He possesses all the characteristics to become a modern day Hitler or Alexander the Great or even Caesar or a global King. We deny such an outside possibility to our peril.

    But you are most likely right that I am thinking and writing in hyperbolic terms that will never be actualized. I would be very happy if you are right as the converse would be most frightening.

  32. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    AWTY
    The “extraordinary forces that aligns the formerly unlikely President Trump, the one who won the Presidency against almost totally unsurmountable odds” is GOD!

    Here are the texts again Romans 13:1-2, Daniel 2:20 .
    20Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his:
    21And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

    Devin Nunes, the House House Republican caucus the Mitch McConnell senate are not doing anything that they ought not to do. They have certainly not weaponized the Courts or the IRS against the citizenry, as occurred during the last administration.

    Please kindly explain what you mean by ”the conjunction of these forces at this time is extraordinary,……. and might be together pointing to higher forces at work.”

    Please kindly explain how the POTUS is “a bit more than a parochial tyrant” and how “ He possesses all the characteristics to become a modern day Hitler or Alexander the Great or even Caesar or a global King.” Clearly this is not Trump’s aim; which is only to MAGA.

    You are indeed “writing in hyperbolic terms that will never be actualized.”

    Studies in Ezekiel, which you have clearly not read or understood, clearly indicate that it is Iran, Russia and Turkey that will be ascendant, and the contemporary realization is that it is China that has the army of significant size to march across the dried up Euphrates river to assist in the battles involving the nations in the eschaton, as stated in Revelation.

    Everything is marching in step as predicted. The current POTUS is doing the job for which he was elevated by God, i.e to keep these powers at bay, until the fullness of time when the “times of the gentiles” will come to an end.

  33. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @Bushie, not me and you and the BBE. Nope. Faith is for us all to divine to our own personal glory and self awareness. To attempt to fashion a cloth – made of sack or fine silk – from the historical extra ordinary men and women who the Heavenly Father allowed to uplift mankind and those who he suitably allowed to destroy many a life is beyond me, good sir! You, the Doc et al can wage that holy war.

    Now Mr Are-We to earthy matters around which I can definitely wrap my limited brains. Yes you are being very hyperbolic. VERY. 🙂

    My bro, first up what’s with this oft repeated Trumpian ego boast, to wit: “…his possession of a Nuclear button that is bigger than all the others combined is scary”. Woooa!

    Size matters in brain power, sex, athletic prowess and even politics among numerous other things….NOT in nuclear war. I need not repeat a screed of many months ago on the impact of even the smallest nuclear detonation but suffice to say that ANY nuclear button pressed will see a barren,laid-to-waste swath of earth for many years ahead; will result in immediate deaths of millions and will crash world economies in the most devastating way. So that in itself is a sick and stupid boast by Trump. So let’s hope indeed that pompous man is really all hotair on that point.

    Further sir, Yes he is a bit more that a garden variety ” parochial tyrant”…he is Pres after all. But NO, NO, NO he will not become -even remotely- “…a modern day Hitler or Alexander the Great or even Caesar or a global King”.

    It’s not that one denies “such an outside possibility” rather that it’s very clear that his persona (characteristics) clearly define him as a megalomaniac and all the sensible leaders of the institutions you cited KNOW that. They know their history and they I believe all love life and cherish a livable earth for their children and grands. They (his party people) are surely hanging to his coattails to implement their agendas but they WILL NOT suffer him to existential folly…why and how would that make sense!

    You know as well as I do that history records Chamberlain (UK PM) as ‘appeasing’ a marauding Hitler. He was ‘duped’ if one is kind to him, absolutely stupid or conniving…do you honestly, practically or any other how conceive that McConnel or Ryan in US, Merkel, May, Macron or even Putin and Xi would appease this power hungry maniac in any even minimalist comparable way towards world disruption! Seriously.

    No need to fear. Daily bombast and ego defines many a politician..Trump extends that beyond any comprehension…but we are not on the verge of existential annihilation….well let me parse that…unless Iran new push to restart nuclear enrichment doesn’t cause Israel to do something drastic in coming months! But that’s a regular war not nuclear!

    I gone until…

  34. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    BIRDBRAIN wrote on June 5, 2018 6:43 AM a load of bull crap, as is his wont.

    Please kindly note that Trump is currently no MORE dangerous than any contemporary leader. OK That is not his goal.

    Can you tell us exactly how is “the powerful Putin ‘quietly’ bestriding the world stage reestablishing his country’s doctrine and power.

    Here the voice of a true idiot …… He says about Putin
    “This man has been in power for 15 years now. He will be there for six more currently and after that for maybe 15 more. Unless he dies from accident or otherwise there are no practical reasons to stop his almost eternal rule.”

    Jackass PUTIN WILL DIE. It is written “the soul that sinneth it WILL die! Since Putin is a sinner he will die. He does not have an “almost” or any sort of “eternal rule.”

    Here the idiot again…..“there is President Xi of China who definitely will have eternal rule atop an unstoppable world dominanting nation.”

    What rubbish! “definitely”…. “eternal rule?”…….” an unstoppable world dominanting nation?.” (what ever dominanting is!)

    On what warrant doth thou thus prophesy?

    Note that Trump is not a present danger even to his own people. They dont even allow him to fart in peace!

    Please kindly explain, and indicate what is “the tremendous power these other dominant leaders are amassing and DISPENSING across the globe.”

    Your hyperbole and grand prose supercedes that of AWTY this bright morn. We get, however, that you hate Trump, see no good at all in him, and can not understand that he has ascended, not of his own doing, but by TEMPORARY APPOINTMENT by God.

    Lord I thank you for the BU rum shop , where I can get my morning fix of mirth from the daily drivel there exuded!

  35. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    re but we are not on the verge of existential annihilation….well let me parse that…unless Iran new push to restart nuclear enrichment doesn’t cause Israel to do something drastic in coming months! But that’s a regular war not nuclear!

    we are not on the verge of existential annihilation CAUSE IT WONT HAPPEN CAUSE IT CANT HAPPEN SO!

    MAN MAY THINK HE HAS POWER WITH HIS NUKES……..

    BUT HE CERTAINLY DOES NOT HAVE THE PERMISSION!……BECAUSE…

    IT IS CLEARLY WRITTEN IN 2 PETER 3
    1- THAT THE WORLD THAT IS WILL BE DESTROYED WITH FIRE
    2 THAT IT WILL BE DESTROYED BY GOD

    IT IS CLEARLY WRITTEN IN REVELATION THAT IRAN & RUSSIA WILL BE DRAWN DOWN BY GOD TO DESTROY ISRAEL……….BUT ALAS FOR THEM….

    THE LORD HIMSELF WILL INTERVENE AND DESTROY THEM SUCH THAT THEY WILL BE BURYING THEIR DEAD FOR A GOOD WHILE.

    HONESTLY, I LOOK FORWARD TO BEHOLDING THAT SPECTACLE!

  36. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Georgie Porgie June 5, 2018 9:14
    “..AM IT IS CLEARLY WRITTEN IN REVELATION THAT IRAN & RUSSIA WILL BE DRAWN DOWN BY GOD TO DESTROY ISRAEL……….BUT ALAS FOR THEM….”

    Dr. GP (Doctor of Divinity), we are most interested in your assertion which presumably is based on your specially-endowed Divine inspiration.

    So please enlighten the BU Biblical scoffers and ignoramuses and let us know which chapter and verse we can ‘google’ to frighten the Christian pants off our Zoroastrianism backsides.

    For, as far as we know, the two political states you are referring to are historically recent political creations and could not have figured in your book of myths ‘allegedly’ written more than 1,000 years ago.

    We would be more willing to accept your scary nightmare scenario if you had mentioned Persia, Syria or even Babylonia.

    BTW, can we also ‘google’ to find out what role China, Japan, USA and even the Koreas and India would be playing in the coming reenactment of your nuclear-bomb annihilation of Sodom & Gomorrah?

    PS:
    How come your book of futuristic events did not foresee also the rise of the Nazis and the Holocaust?

  37. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    LETS START WITH YOUR NONSENSE RE
    How come your book of futuristic events did not foresee also the rise of the Nazis and the Holocaust?

    READ DEUTERONOMY AND THE SEVERAL PASSAGES IN THE OT PROPHETS THAT PREDICTED TWO EXILES FOR THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL.

    READ ALSO THE SEVERAL PASSAGES THAT INDICATE THAT THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL WOULD SUFFER IN SEVERAL WAYS BECAUSE OF THEIR REBELLION AGAINST GOD, AND THEIR DISOBEDIENCE

    DOES IT HAVE TO SPECIFY THE rise of the Nazis and the Holocaust?

    NO. IT DOES NOT

    ALL ESCHATOLOGISTS TEACH THAT PROPHESY IS BEST EXPLAINED WHEN IT ACTUALLY HAPPENS.

    YOU DEMONSTRATE YOUR IGNORANCE WHEN YOU OPINE THUS

    We would be more willing to accept your scary nightmare scenario if you had mentioned Persia, Syria or even Babylonia.

    ALTHOUGH THE NATION OF PERSIA CAME TO THE FORE AND WAS SUBSEQUENTLY DESTROYED BY THE GREEKS AS PREDICTED IN DANIEL 2 & 7, IS NOT THE LAND MASS OR THE THE RGION OF PERSIA NOT EXACTLY NORTH OF ISRAEL AS INDICATED IN EZELIEL 38 ?

    WE AWAIT THE DESTRUCTION OF DAMASCUS……..PERHAPS THE ONLY YET TO BE UNFULFILLED OT PROPHESY BESIDES THOSE PERTAINING TO THE TRIBULATION PERIOD, CHRIST’S SECOND COMING PROPER (i.e THE EPIPHANEA) AND THE MILLENNIUM

    YOU MAY ASK DOES DAMASCUS MEAN JUST THE CITY? OR DOES IT MEAN THE NATION? AFTER ALL REGULARLY IN OT PROPHESY, THE NAME OF THE CITY IS OFTEN PUT TO INDICATE THE NATION. WE EXPECT THAT SYRIA WIOLL BE DESTROYED AS PREDICTED BEFORE THE ESCHATON BEGINS.

    WHEN YOU CONSIDER THAT THE BABYLONIANS WERE CONQUERED BY THE MEDES AND THE PERSIANS, WHO TOOK OVER THEIR REALM IT IS IGNORANCE TO SAY Persia, or even Babylonia, FOR THEY ARE ESSENTIALLY THE SAME

    RE BTW, can we also ‘google’ to find out what role China, Japan, USA and even the Koreas and India would be playing in the coming reenactment of your nuclear-bomb annihilation of Sodom & Gomorrah?

    YOU CAN GOOGLE WHAT YOU LIKE BUT THE WORD OF GOD DOES NOT NAME China, Japan, USA and even the Koreas and India SPECIFICALLY BY NAME.

    YOU DONT HAVE TO GOOGLE…….JUST STUDY THE WORD OF GOD.
    REVELATION DESCRIBES THEM SIMPLY AS THE KINGS OF THE EAST.

    THESE WILL JOIN THE KINGS OF THE NORTH FOR THE WHIPPING AT ARMAGEDDON.

    RE For, as far as we know, the two political states you are referring to are historically recent political creations and could not have figured in your book of myths ‘allegedly’ written more than 1,000 years ago.

    YOU ARE VERY ACCURATE WHEN YOU SAY “For, as far as we know,……BECAUSE IT IS CLEAR THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW

    NOW JUST READ EZEKIEL 38:1-4 AND CHECK THE RELEVANT BIBLE GEOGRAPHY MAPS AND YOU WILL ASCERTAIN AND SEE WHERE GOG, MAGOG MESHECH AND TUBAL IS,

    1And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
    2Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
    3And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
    4And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company withbucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

    BYE…….

  38. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    NOTE THAT THE USA IS NOT PART OF THE KINGS OF THE EAST
    NOTE ALSO THAT IT IS THE USA THAT IS THE RECENT KING ON THE BLOCK
    NOTE ALSO THAT THE USA IS ALREADY IN A MODE OF SELF DESTRUCTION BECAUSE OF ITS ANARCHY IN DISOBEDIENCE TO THE TENET OF ROMANS 13:1-2

  39. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    NOTE THAT WHEN I WRITE ” IT IS CLEARLY WRITTEN IN REVELATION THAT IRAN & RUSSIA WILL BE DRAWN DOWN BY GOD TO DESTROY ISRAEL……….
    I AM POINTING OUT THAT IT IS IN REVELATION THAT THE EZEKIEL PROPHESY IS REALIZED

    MANY FOLK GO TO REVELATION AND GET CONFUSED
    THIS IS BECAUSE REVELATION IS LIKE A RIVER INTO WHICH THE SEVERAL TRIBUTARIES OF PROPHESY FLOW.

    IF YOU DONT KNOW THE PRECEEDING PROPHESIES, REVELATION WILL MAKE NO SENSE

    E.G WHEN YOU READ THE FEW BRIEF REFERENCES TO THE “THOUSAND YEARS ” IN REVELATION YOU WILL SEE THAT NO DESCRIPTION OF THAT PERIOD IS THERE PRESENTED

    WHY IS THIS?
    REVELATION 20 IS SAYING THIS IS THE POINT IN TIME WHERE ALL THE PREDICTIONS ABOUT THE MILLENIUM IN THE PSALMS AND PROPHETS OCCUR
    ”

  40. charles skeete Avatar
    charles skeete

    Is that a point Sarge which can stand up legally to indicate that Mr Kellman did not support Mr Thompson and the real point is that they both opposed the Government.
    Mr Estwick publicly opposed the policies of the Government in which he held Ministerial responsibility but did he vote against the policies in Parliament which is the only legal forum that mattered

  41. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    It is extremely difficult to understand why educated people so completely immerse themselves into an incredible, mindless assessment of easily proven data points in order to support a biased view to mislead! State your opposition based on facts and leave off the BS, petty stupidity.

    You asked: I think any rational person can.

    Since 1999 when Putin ascended under Yeltsin and then took over to become PM/Pres of Russia until today, the nation of Russia has evolved and developed to be an ever more significant force across the globe. Their gas, oil and other business ventures in Europe; expressive forays in the Middle East; intrigues in Africa, Pakistan, and Far East nations; their oligarchs purchase of sports teams, real estate and myriad other ventures has given Putin and his Russia corp. a leverage and impact not experienced since the Cold War days. There is so much more to that tale in plan sight but we have an educated ??? making silly comments! SMH.

    Again you quoted and then mouthed: <“This man has been in power for 15 years now. […] Unless he dies from accident or otherwise there are no practical reasons to stop his almost eternal rule.” —- Jackass PUTIN WILL DIE. It is written “the soul that sinneth it WILL die! Since Putin is a sinner he will die. He does not have an “almost” or any sort of “eternal rule.”>

    How utterly silly!

    Death is inevitable we all know that. How simple does one have to be to lack awareness that ‘eternal rule’ speaks to eternal/endless political rule regardless of election cycles or opponents…

    Absolutely nonsensical sillness! Steeeupse.

    I too am glad for the BU rum shop where I can get a dose of reality…the reality that people can be as deliberately dumb as need be just to practice invective. What a waste of time and energy.

    Donald Trump is an inherently bad person who focuses on himself and those who praise him…of course there is good in him…as there is in all of us. If you choose to elevate his despicable behavior and admire that “he has ascended […] by TEMPORARY APPOINTMENT by God” then so be it.

    God gave temporary ascendancy to Mussolini, Attila the Hun, Mother Theresa and Dr King to name but four. I wished he had given the Nun and the Preacher more time and the marauding leaders less…but what will be will be.

    Adore Trump as much as you want and if you need to contrive facts, twist simple English and debase acceptable social norms in the process then so too it is: what will be, will be!

  42. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    that should read :

    You asked:<> I think any rational person can.

  43. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    ooops…doesn’t like my format. One last try:

    You asked: “Can you tell us exactly how is “the powerful Putin ‘quietly’ bestriding the world stage reestablishing his country’s doctrine and power.” I think any rational person can.

  44. charles skeete Avatar
    charles skeete

    I am indeed heartened that at least one eminent Barbadian none other than Professor Pedro Welch is in support of my view for which I have been pummeled by myopic commentators and my view
    still stands
    THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION HAS BEEN INSTALLED NOT APPOINTED AND HE IS ILLEGALLY HOLDING THE TITLE BECAUSE THE RELEVANT SECTION IN THE CONSTITUTION RELATING TO THE APPOINTMENT OF A LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN BARBADOS DOES NOT SUPPORT THE APPOINTMENT OF REVEREND ATHERLY TO THE POST. THE GOVERNOR GENERAL ERRED.

  45. Sargeant Avatar
    Sargeant

    @Charles Skeete

    Where can I read Professor Welch’s comments?

  46. Sargeant Avatar
    Sargeant

    Just saw them on Barbados Today

  47. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    re How simple does one have to be to lack awareness that ‘eternal rule’ speaks to eternal/endless political rule regardless of election cycles or opponents…
    NO! ETERNAL MEANS ETERNAL. and endless , means endless!
    PUTIN IS NOT ETERNAL! nor is he endless

    ONLY THE LORD JESUS WILL HAVE ETERNAL/ENDLESS RULE.
    THIS IS UNREFUTABLE! WHETHER YOU ACCEPT IT , OR LIKE IT OR NOT!

    re If you choose to elevate his despicable behavior and admire that “he has ascended […] by TEMPORARY APPOINTMENT by God” then so be it.

    n.b I DID NOT AND CANNOT ELEVATE ANYONE, …AND
    WHETHER I “choose to elevate his despicable behavior and admire that “he has ascended […] by TEMPORARY APPOINTMENT by God” , OR NOT…..IT IS A FACT.
    WHETHER YOU ACCEPT THAT FACT OR HIM, YOU CAN NOT CHANGE THE FACT.

    HE HAS BEEN ELEVATED TO BE THE POTUS ah lie? whether you like um or not.
    and for the last time…..PUTIN IS NOT ETERNAL! nor does he or will he have ETERNAL/ENDLESS RULE

  48. Sargeant Avatar
    Sargeant

    @CS
    Lancelot was a Professor of History so he is proffering his opinion like all of us newly minted Constitutional “scholars” although his is a more disciplined approach a tribute to his training. I have already expressed my doubts about the ascension of the Rev. Atherley to the post of LOO and since Professor Welch raised the question about the GG’s possible unconstitutional actions (my words) it begs the question did she consult any Constitutional “experts” before she provided her assent. It behooves the GG that as soon as the Election result was apparent to see what pitfalls could result as the anomaly of an unelected member of the Opposition was now history.

    I do agree with the Professor’s assertion that the DLP could hardly have responded since the offer was informal and a formal offer wasn’t presented. The question now remains did the PM (a former Atty Gen.) and the new and former Atty Gen aided and abetted by the GG “ game” the system by rushing to confirm Atherley as LOO?

    If Professor Welch’s argument is to be believed some legal beagle should challenge the validity of the appointment but to all and sundry it is deemed a fait accompli and the Nation’s business must go on.

  49. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @Skeete, other eminent Bajans disagree with Prof Welch. He is certainly entitled to his learned opinion but why are those who disagree “myopic”?

    What is shortsighted about the contrary opinions offered on this matter?

    The issue is now moot and likely will not be decided by a court of law but it’s confusing to see alternative views called myopic!

    SMH.

  50. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Sargeant June 8, 2018 8:36 PM
    “I do agree with the Professor’s assertion that the DLP could hardly have responded since the offer was informal and a formal offer wasn’t presented. The question now remains did the PM (a former Atty Gen.) and the new and former Atty Gen aided and abetted by the GG “ game” the system by rushing to confirm Atherley as LOO?”

    How could that scenario ever play out when the said Constitution neither recognises nor mentions political parties?

    So too doesn’t the Judiciary in its deliberations on any matter of Constitutional import brought before it.

    The question to be answered is if not “Atherley as LOO” then who? Clarke, Thorne or the Speaker?

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