Submitted by Heather Cole

I have a sentimental attachment to Crane Bay so perhaps that makes me biased with regards to any chaos that revolves around it. I spent many days in my youth on that beach, being rolled up in the waves, and on those long summer evenings taking a walk up the long expanse of the beach all the way to the dark hole, mostly in search of sea grapes. When it was too hot my friends and I sat on those benches on the jetty in the shade enjoying the breeze of the sea and the magnificent view and the boys jumping off the jetty. I have memories from long ago of a man who we called Masters who was either the manager or the owner of the Hotel. He used to get the watchman to run us if we came onto the property but we did not loiter there. We used the hotel to facilitate our access to the beach since my grandmother’s house was a stone’s throw from where the walls of the hotel now stand.

In those days, there were no walls so we walked the quarter mile up to the hotel walked through, passing the pool and making our way down the steps to the beach instead of going the mile on the public road. Once we cleared the hotel and made it to the beach we were safe. I do not remember any occasion that we were asked to leave the beach. Truth be told what I remember now is what I can only term as an act of defiance against Masters and that was dipping and washing our sandy feet in the beautiful pool as we made our way back through the hotel. While Masters denied our access to the beach, our presence on the beach was not denied. It was like a safe haven.

However, thinking rationally we have a sore thumb. We have a problem today that is not going away. No matter how much we pacify it by putting that thumb is our mouth and sucking on it, when we take it out, it is still sore. The very idea of having a PUBLIC beach that has a restriction is ridiculous. How can there be a public space that is owned by an individual from the high tide mark to his property. My interpretation is that the Act therefore only gives John Public access to the sea and not full use of the beach. If the beach was truly public property no one private party could claim any part of it as their property.

Anything that is for public use or consumption but comes with restrictions is segregated. So taking it a step further, one can state that some beaches are actually not truly public but segregated if Barbadians are denied the acts of vending, relaxing and walking on them. What we have here is a clear case of segregation of the beaches in Barbados hidden in plain sight as the law has legalized this segregation.

In a public car park everyone can park their car. In public schools no one group of persons can claim part of the school as for their race. Public transportation is Barbados is not segregated with the front of the bus for one race and the back for another. In 1955 Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat on a segregated bus that was used for public transportation sparking the Civil Rights Movement. The inhumane system of apartheid which institutionalized racial segregation and discrimination ended in 1991 in South Africa. So why do we have a law on the statute books that institutionalizes where we can go on the beach and sets a portion of the beach aside for private ownership?

Coastal erosion has all but destroyed the beach at the Crane. It is a mere shadow of its former self. The beach that I remember was perhaps three times the size in width of what it now. It means that according to this high tide arrangement the hotel, vendors and nationals compete for an increasingly diminishing resource.

It would be interesting to see the title deed of the Crane Hotel and any other hotel or beach property to see what has been conveyed.

In my opinion, the best solution is to repeal and create a new piece of legislation or amend the legislation removing the reference to the high tide mark because that law is discriminatory against Barbadians and the law should not be in conflict with itself either in principal or practice and; public must mean available to all in entirety.

Clearly there is over reach in the legislation in allowing a high tide mark to restrict access on public property. It is indeed shameful that the Attorney General who is a resident of St Philip and more importantly the defender of the public interest has not uttered a single word on this matter. Since this government is doing nothing to resolve this problem, the next government must aim for steady, pragmatic leadership which resolves this chaos

240 responses to “Another Heather Cole Column – Public Beaches or Segregated Beaches?”

  1. Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service Avatar
    Well Well & Cut N’ Paste At Your Service

    Restrictions and boundaries must be set for the johnnies come lately like Melnyck and Doyle who believe that they are suddenly lords and masters over everything….and who have an easy way to torment citizens because of a weak, barely functioning judiciary…, and an even weaker current nonfunctional AG.

    Boundaries were set for Melnyck in his own country Canada when he broke business laws, he was banned from conducting certain business there.

    You cannot give investors free rein in your country to destroy traditions or your own people livelihoods because they want to control everything and make all the money, leaving the island’s citizens with very little or nothing to live on….

    Boundaries must be set for all of them, the Butch Stewarts, Doyles, Melnycks, they ones planning to come into the island in the future with their elaborate fantasies of owning what does not belong to them and dictating what government should do to benefit them only while disenfranching the native population….all of them, stop having these debates over and over each and every generation.

    Set these boundaries in stone for current and future generations to enforce against all current and future intruders.

    A weak judiciary and weaker government leaders are the direct cause of all this continuing, repetitive nonsense.


  2. Problem can easily be solved, Doyle should give his beach chairs out for free the fighting would soon stop.


  3. @Heather

    Thanks for the submission. Your piece has not dealt with the claim by Doyle that he pays for the property where the vendors do business and while it was ok in the past the hotel has grown many times and therefore he needs more space to deliver world class service. There must be a win win here devoid of the emotional claptrap and politics. This is where leadership and government has been absent.


  4. @ David until I see the conveyance Doyle claim is unverified. How do we know that he is telling the truth? If the beach is public both the hotel and vendors can use it.


  5. The statement from the hotel yesterday- yet to see it posted anywhere- claims that the hotel has been in discussion with the NCC for the last nine years. Now that it is matter of public record we await a formal response. BU is wary about prominent persons who may want to leverage this issue deep in the political season.

  6. charles skeete Avatar

    The earth is the Lord’s and all that therein is- there should be limits to land ownership in such a small place like Barbados and people purchasing beach front property should be told that the purchase comes with the price of having to share unfettered access and use with the indigenous inhabitants and others. This crane beach debacle should not be an issue in this era of the development of our country no longer governed from Whitehall


  7. It seems as if poor communications & interpretation of the law are the main culprits in this case………. if ‘de beach is mine’, I should be able to go on a weekend and put my chair on de beach between the ‘high water mark’ and the waves. Why does NCC give hotel owner, or vendors, permission to setup a business on ‘dat beach of mine’?? Check out Browne’s Beach when Cruise ships are in port……. 100’s of chairs all around the Bay…… on public space belonging to ‘my beach’! Where am I to put my chair??


  8. High water marks around oceans, lakes, rivers etc. have been ingrained in various state legislation for hundreds of years. Barbados legislation on this issue is very similar to Canadian Law, no doubt because it flowed down from the British. Most or possible all these legislations allow PRIVATE PROPERTY to extend to the HIGH WATER MARK. Therein is the problem, over time this MARK has a habit of changing for various environmental reasons, i.e. global warming. In Canada the HIGH WATER MARK is typically defined as that which existed on a certain time, I.E. 1886. PROPERTY titles state these boundaries in their descriptions. In the case of the Crane Resort I have no doubt that their property title documents define the property line on the beach as HIGH TIDE limit. Barbados legislation with respect to free beaches and access is not compliant with Title Deeds and should be changed to reflect same. Changing Title Deed Legislation could also be attempted but would no doubt result in extensive court cases, considerable financial payouts, several decades etc which ultimately Barbados would lose.

    Barbaidians have to realize that their understanding of beach is for everyone is a pipe dream in reality. Country needed to implement legislation hundreds of years ago, long before independance, if they had any hope of maintaining a public beach situation. British law prior to independance set the law and rules, now Bagans have to live with them.


  9. @Heather: The conveyance for the Crane property will not help you resolve this… it will show the property boundaries are between the Crane and adjacent private property, but there will be no definition of where the land ends with respect to the sea. On the coast land surveyors do not draw a line along the beach because, as you point out, the beach is always changing.

    It does not matter at all who holds the title to the land. The NCC Act CAP 393 gives the NCC the power under law “to control, maintain and develop the public parks, public gardens and beaches of Barbados;” note that it does NOT say ‘public beaches,’ it says ‘beaches.’ This means that the NCC is “to control” ALL beaches whether they occur on public or private land, in the public interest.


  10. It will is access the the beach that should be unfettered isn’t it? The issue here is that the Crane and vendors are doing business on the beach. Further, there is the legal technical issue about who has control of a specific beach area above the high water mark. We need to remove the emotion from the debate and ask the relevant government agencies to demonstrate some Rh leadership.


  11. @Wily Coyote March 29, 2018 at 8:04 AM
    See above ^


  12. @David
    It is the National Conservation Commission specifically that needs “to demonstrate some Rh leadership.”
    In the public statements quoted in the media it does not appear that the NCC General Manager has a good grasp of the legislation that established the organization that he leads. He and other Bajans should read it:
    http://extwprlegs1.fao.org/docs/pdf/bar19684.pdf

  13. Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service Avatar
    Well Well & Cut N’ Paste At Your Service

    Wily….laws worldwide are amended and changed to suit the times, eras and persons alive…no one has to abide by legislation created to disenfranchise the majority population by long dead wicked people, it’s just that the gang of idiots in the last 5 decades who squatted in parliament like to please and appease the greedy and never amended legislation to benefit the majority…but it can be done at anytime, no one can stop it.

    Heather…check the land registry for a title deed regarding the Crane property to see if Doyle is lying and misinterpreting the legal language jn the document as they and their mediocre lawyers are prone to do to suit themselves.

  14. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ charles skeete March 29, 2018 at 7:56 AM
    “This crane beach debacle should not be an issue in this era of the development of our country no longer governed from Whitehall..”

    Your ‘all-ah-we-is-one’ position might be a nationally altruistic stance to take on the Crane beach matter. Yes, your little fiefdom ‘ruled’ by political whores might not be directly controlled from a back office at Whitehall but it is certainly controlled by any ‘foreign John’ shaking in its face the Mighty US$.

    See if you can identify any similarities between the Crane beach ‘Bush Hill’ type cuss-out and the Coverley illegal island construction marked with the sign: ‘This is my MM place given to me by the NHC and I can do whatever I like; so I could go to Lord King Fumble and tell him to lump or like it in other words: ‘Kiss my pale-skin donkey’.

  15. charles skeete Avatar

    “British law prior to independance set the law and rules, now Bagans have to live with them”

    Laws can be changed, can’t they?
    Isn’t that a part of what Independence is supposed to be all about or is it only a sham? It is instructive that independence song only made reference to the ownership of fields and hills and not beaches.
    The British changed their laws which effectively revoked the rights of those born prior to independence to British citizenship; a right which they had previously enjoyed by virtue of having been in the United Kingdom and Colonies.
    So why can we not change the laws to retake our beaches for our use free from foreign domination.


  16. @Pl

    I read your comments, however you obviously missed the part about title deeds stating the property line as HIGH WATER MARK. In the case of CANADA this MARK is defined and documented as of a certian date in time. Future fluctuations of this HIGH WATER MARK after this date may result in private property several hundred feet back from the waters edge or conversely several hundred feet out beyond the waters edge. Old British Land Titles also had deeded WATER in their titles, i.e. title deeds extended out beyond the shore line. In Barbados do to sea level rises over the last 50 years beach HIGH WATER marks have obviously moved landward and if no definitive definition of the HIGH WATER MARK has been established in time then slowly but surley all known beach definitions in Barbadian legislation will eventually be under WATER. Barbadians better learn to swim to access their underwater beaches.

    Poorly written legislation will always BITE YOU IN THE ASS, and Barbados is no stranger to poorly written legislation and poor inforcement of same.


  17. @Wily Coyote March 29, 2018 at 8:49 AM #
    I understand completely about the title to the Crane’s property going down to the high water mark… but it is irrelevant.

    The key is ‘control’ not ownership. The law gives CONTROL of the beach to the NCC, unequivocally and without condition… IT DOES NOT MATTER WHO OWNS IT.


  18. Quote from NCC Act CAP 393:
    For the purposes of this Act
    “beach” includes the land adjoining the foreshore of Barbados and
    extending not more than 33 metres beyond the landward limit of
    the foreshore;


  19. I see a lot of BU bloggers on this issue and most issues evolve the argument to WHITE/BLACK, FORGIEN/NATIVE. Its obvious these individuals can only see the forest and not the trees making up the forest. Emotions have to be removed from these issues and appropriate arguments presented which make their points of view clearly stated.

    Yes laws can be changed and legislation does evolve, however making emotional knee jerk legislation changes most times result in the NCC mess that Barbados now finds itself.


  20. @PL

    “beach” includes the land adjoining the foreshore of Barbados and
    extending not more than 33 metres beyond the landward limit of
    the foreshore;”

    There’s your problem in a nut shell, NCC legislation is poorly written in such that the moving foreshore now includes private property including land and buildings. As sea levels rise the foreshore is continually moving landward and NCC is now regulatining new lands every day. Please provide a legal description of Barbados “foreshore”.


  21. @Wily Coyote March 29, 2018 at 9:03 AM #
    The NCC Act CAP 393 is certainly not “emotional knee jerk legislation.” It is a very craftily written law which is cognisant of the colonial heritage of British common law which stipulates that coastal private property extends to the high water mark. In order to defend the traditional rights of Bajans in this context it left title in the hands of property owners, but removed their ability to CONTROL the beach. If domestic law had attempted to expropriate without compensation the property owners would have run to court, appealed all the way up to the Privy Council (in those days) and won. By simply vesting beach control in the hands of a public body the NCC, this legislation protects Bajan’s rights to play on their beaches while minimising public exposure to claims for compensation from wealthy property owners.


  22. Oh WC come off it!

    The simple point is that the NCC has the power (or ought) to excercise a certain amount control over beaches in Barbados, however defined.

    Why are you complicating the issue? Are you afraid that too many locals would be on your families ”land’?


  23. Wily Coyote March 29, 2018 at 9:12 AM #
    As defined in the Coastal Zone Management Act CAP 394:
    “foreshore” means the area between the low and high water marks

    From the same legislation:
    “beach” means the entire area associated with the shoreline, composed of unconsolidated materials, typically sand and beachrock, that extends landwards from the high water mark to the area where there is a marked change in material or natural physiographic form or to a distance of 500 metres landward from the mean high water mark, whichever is the lesser distance;

    So you see this entirely addresses the concerns you raise.

  24. Talking Loud Saying Nothing Avatar
    Talking Loud Saying Nothing

    @Wily Coyote March 29, 2018 at 9:03 AM,

    I’ve just read your above post whilst stumbling across the link below.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/03/chinese-mining-company-accused-destroying-mozambique-village-180328184655257.html

  25. Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service Avatar
    Well Well & Cut N’ Paste At Your Service

    Sàme thing I said should nit be happening….when will ministers of government start listening to the people and stop giving the minority business people free rein….by the 4 comments it is clear, the people are fed up with 50 years of this crap.

    “Crane to sue NCC in attempt to force out chair vendors

    Article by
    Barbados Today
    Published on
    March 29, 2018
    The row over the use of Crane Beach by two lounge chair vendors is heading to court, with the hotel at the centre of the dispute, The Crane Resort, set to sue state-owned beach regulator, the National Conservation Commission (NCC).

    Declaring that the dispute was not with the vendors who ply their trade there, but with the NCC, Crane Beach General Manager Sean Alleyne told Barbados TODAY this afternoon his company will be filing an application in the High Court next week, challenging the legality of the commission to grant commercial licences to private entities to compete with the facility on its own property.

    At issue has been the “disproportionate” amount of space shared between the vendors and the hotel as a result of the licences granted to them by the NCC.

    “Our only issue has been with the allocation of beach chair vending licences by NCC for commercial use of the part of the beach that resides within our land boundaries, including the storage of beach chairs. Our research has shown that The Crane is the only hotel in Barbados where NCC licences have been given to beach chair vendors on, or directly in front of, hotel property,” Alleyne said.

    However, he revealed that agreement was reached this morning with the vendors for them to continue operating on the beach and to store their chairs in a more proportionate area than previously utilized. The general manager noted that talks with the NCC were not as successful.

    “We have not reached an agreement with the NCC as we believe that this would actually have to be settled with the courts. We have met with the vendors and we have made an agreement with them that they can continue to ply their trade and we will settle the issue directly with the NCC.

    “We are asking the court to declare what is the definition of control in the NCC Act and if the NCC has the power to issue private entities licences to carry out commercial activities on lands that The Crane presently pays taxes on,” he stressed, adding this had nothing to do with the public traversing the beach even up to the high water mark.

    Alleyne explained that when the vendors started using the beach some 20 years ago it was easy for the hotel to share half of the space with them because it was an 18-room facility.

    However, he said the hotel had since expanded to 457 rooms that accommodate over 800 guests.

    “We are continuing to utilize the same space to service our guests, resulting in a vast disproportionate use of the beach with hundreds of guests hugged on one half and far less on the other. This has harshly impacted guest satisfaction over the past several years,” he contended, adding that the space could become even more limited as the hotel considered the possible addition of a further 300 rooms and 400 employees within the next five to ten years.

    But today, an incensed Anthony Gabby Carter, a veteran entertainer and cultural ambassador, sparked a public outcry when he publicly declared that hotel owner Paul Doyle had evicted the vendors earlier this month on the grounds that the section on which they had been operating for year belonged to the luxury resort.

    Gabby, who more than 30 years ago declared, “dah beach is mine” when he wrote the hit song Jack, also announced plans to made a similar declaration this Saturday by leading a chair protest at Crane Beach.

    “I got news for him [Paul Doyle]. The beach belong to us, and in Bajan parlance, the beach belong to we, so therefore we will be leading a protest.

    “We want Barbadians by their thousands to put their chairs down by the Crane to let him know that that beach belong to us and he cannot take it from us, he or no other person on this earth, none. We will die defending that beach, ” he told Barbados TODAY in an interview.

    Amidst the strong public outcry, the hotel today said it had “no desire to privatize Crane Beach” and that “the public has always been, and will always be, welcome to enjoy the beach”.

    The resort has however failed to convince Gabby to call off the planned action.

    In fact the artiste insisted Barbadians still had a duty to send a strong message.

    “We will still be going at 1 p.m. on Saturday. I am asking the public to assemble in Queens Park at 12 and then we will head to the Crane at 1 p.m.”

    At issue, Gabby charged, are the same concerns that surfaced 36 years ago when Jack Dear, a lawyer for the then Barbados Board of Tourism, declared that hotel owners had the right to take their property down to the waterfront.

    “What he [Paul Doyle] is really utilizing is an old law that states that property owners have the right to bring their property to the high water mark. It is the same ploy that Jack Dear tried to employ when he was representing the hotel owners and hotel operators back in 1982, which prompted me the write the song, Jack.

    “They are talking about law and I am talking about justice. It is a violation of the people’s rights. We want to send a message out to him and to all his cohorts that we will not tolerate that nonsense in this country,” he explained.

    According to the Laws of Barbados CAP. 393, “ beach includes the land adjoining the foreshore of Barbados and extending not more than 33 metres beyond the landward limit of the foreshore”.

    Meanwhile, Barbadians have expressed strong support for Gabby’s position on social media and on radio, with several people saying that all beaches on the island must remain fully accessible to the public.

    Gabby also suggested that the “vast majority of Barbadians were on his side because this is a just fight we are putting down here”.

    “This is a fight not for us, this is a fight for children that will be born one and two and three hundred years from now . . . .This is not a fight about Gabby and ego and popularity or some nonsense like that. This is a fight for all generations to come, this is what it is,” he said.

    emmanueljoseph@barbadostoday.bb

    sandydeane@barbadostoday.bb

    4 THOUGHTS ON “CRANE TO SUE NCC IN ATTEMPT TO FORCE OUT CHAIR VENDORS”

    ALEX ALLEYNE
    “We the people”……..These rich people has too much power over the politicians in bim.
    economic power, political power.
    sandy lane, sandals, crane.

    MARCH 29, 2018 – REPLY

    CECIL BROOKS
    will the news media tell us what year this land became the property of the crane hotel and while you conduct your investigation. Please tell us if this land was ever crown lands and if the land was owned by the state, please allow us the public to know, in what year was it sold and under which administration.

    MARCH 29, 2018 – REPLY

    TONY WEBSTER
    It may not be any point of law, buy a fair and balanced view of this mess( even allowing for the political fevers now getting ready to run wild) might just include:-
    1. The Goddards owned “the Crane”, and sold to a company run by Julian Masters, c. mid-1970’s (?).
    2. this compay refreshed the property, and added the northern wing, allowing for better restaurant and entertainment facilities. It however had its challenges, and Mr. Paul Doyle then bought it. At that time, only a handful of st. Philip folks secured jobs there.
    3. What paul Doyle has achieved in these past 15 years, is nothing short of a miracle. No description is necessary, just go and see. Ask how many folks secured jobs in construction. Ask how many now work there. Taxi-folks; self-drive cars; Customers of Six Cross Roads businesses.There are even NEW businesses in St. Philip that haveve started on the back of his success. I last visited when a family breakfast was held for my godson, Raneal, and we were royally treated by the all-bajan staff.

    The beach: a big part of this, was the degradation, and eventual wrecking, of the Government access raoad to the beach, ie the southern beach and also shady areas to the north.No administration/ party replaced this, or looked to remedy it, in the public interest. None.

    And we are now starving for F.D.I. and to maintain ( increase ? Ha!) employment levels.I heard my dear Gabberts say on radio as much as the letter of the law is not important, but moreso the spirit of the law. really?

    Bajans, and visitors alike, must have access to our beautiful beaches, and these are indeed our cultural treasures. But I promise not to arrive on any beach with 200 beach-chairs, or portable bars, and set-up my own business and possible get into trubble with the legal rights of any adjacent property owner. We are either a law-abiding society, or we are not. Even at Elections-time.

    MARCH 29, 2018 – REPLY

    MIKE
    The underlying problem here is that some of these establishments will advertise overseas that they have private beaches in order to attract a certain clientele, and when the visitor arrives the hotels have to deliver. hence the reason why access is restricted to non-residents at their establishment.

    It is a known fact that from time immemorial that these hotels never wanted to see the faces of locals (blacks that is) on their property, unless they are there in a uniform, in the capacity as an employee.

    That is why I always view the staycation thing as a colossal joke where hotels falling on hard-times, would just use this as a stop gap until the tourist start arriving again, and then they will bar you from entering their place of business.

  26. Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service Avatar
    Well Well & Cut N’ Paste At Your Service

    I note there are only 2 beach vendors utilizing the space at Crane beach …only 2…that tells me everything I need to know.


  27. @PL

    So what you are saying is that the NCC has control over several thousand private properties and buildings within the “foreshore” or your new ” 500 feet landward from the HIGH WATER mark”.

    Sounds kinda IDIOTIC to a dumb Coyote. So every private establishment in this definition must have a LICENSE to basically do ANYTHING. My suggestion for poor legislation once again comes front and centre,


  28. Interesting that Ambassador Gabby of Jack fame has decided to be in the trenches in this fight. Tell us more Gabby!


  29. @Wily Coyote March 29, 2018 at 9:39 AM #
    Please read what I quoted from the Act Wily. “beach” means the entire area associated with the shoreline, composed of unconsolidated materials, typically sand and beachrock, that extends landwards from the high water mark to the area where there is a marked change in material or natural physiographic form or to a distance of 500 metres landward from the mean high water mark, whichever is the lesser distance;

    This very clearly means that the Crane beach extends to the place where the land rises steeply and is covered in vegetation because this constitutes a “marked change in material or natural physiographic form.” the law comes to exactly the same conclusion as you would using your common sense.


  30. @PL

    We’re going to have to agree to disagree. I still maintain the NCC Act as written is extremely poorly authored. If it was designed with proper due care and attention these Sandy Lane, Sandals, Crane Resort etc issues would not REGULARLY surface and threats of court action. Poor legislation and in particular lack of enforcement in Barbados is a major issue and on pare with the political miss-management issues throughout the government.


  31. PL
    Is it your intention to leave those detractors in the dust

    For you are


  32. @Wily Coyote March 29, 2018 at 10:05 AM #
    We agree on “lack of enforcement” and “political miss-management,” but the legislation is as well crafted as any that I have encountered in any jurisdiction.


  33. Since the “High Water Mark” is a function of tide …. and tide varies with the moon … what effect if any does the moon have on the whole affair?

    Should the GOB legislate the phases of the moon?


  34. @Wily Coyote March 29, 2018 at 10:05 AM #
    “these Sandy Lane, Sandals, Crane Resort etc issues” regularly surface BECAUSE the Act was so crafty. You see those wealthy operators welcomed the Act when it was passed because they thought it was simply to regulate the Black vendors of trinkets and sex services to prevent them from harassing their lily White guests. It did do this, so they hardly noticed that it severely restricted their property rights on the beach real estate that they had paid so dearly for. 😉 Now that they begin to pay more attention 40 years later it is already deeply entrenched law of the land.

    You see, Bajans never had any rights to the beach, just a deep tradition of being able to use the beach because until 60 years ago the tourism industry was non-existent. This law and the one which preceded it in 1970 were the first to actually give Bajans rights that they believed they already had.


  35. @John March 29, 2018 at 10:16 AM #

    From Coastal Zone Management Act CAP 394
    32. Any observations or measurements to determine the high water mark shall be made at the time of any ordinary high tide occurring on the sixth, seventh or eighth days before or after the day of a full moon.


  36. @John

    “Should the GOB legislate the phases of the moon?”

    Please don’t give our numskull POLITICIANS any new ideas, there’s possibly an election in the offing and they’ll make it a major election issue, ha, ha.


  37. Are Super Moons included?

    As we have seen in the whole sewage issue, Super Moons can cause unusually high high tides!!

    Look up Mean High Water Mark!!

    “What he [Paul Doyle] is really utilizing is an old law that states that property owners have the right to bring their property to the high water mark. It is the same ploy that Jack Dear tried to employ when he was representing the hotel owners and hotel operators back in 1982, which prompted me the write the song, Jack.

    https://eprints.usq.edu.au/18542/1/Klibbe_2010.pdf

    Old law my great toe!!!


  38. How about 100 Bajans going to the Crane beach and standing in the sea in front of the Hotel.

    It would be perfectly LEGAL for 100+- Bajans to swim in the sea in front every major hotel in Barbados.

    The PRIME MINISTER of Barbados has an opportunity to show that he has awakened and is a

    true LEADER.

    Barbadians are well aware of the value of Tourism and have avoided sitting on the beach directly in front of hotels.

    However hotel development over the last 40 years has been “de facto privatizing” the public beaches of Barbados.

    Gabby seh ” da beach belong to we ” but we need clarification from THE PRIME MINISTER.


  39. https://www.local10.com/weather/how-the-supermoon-caused-the-perfect-celestial-storm-and-record-flooding-in-new-england

    Here, we saw a rise in high tide back in January from about .75 metres to about 0.9 metres, not nearly as high as New England.

    What this means is that the Beach may extend further inland than people think!!


  40. The airhead approach to the issue is a joke … we will watch stupid Gabby put on another stupid performance and a whole lot of stupid people being led nowhere.

    Stick to the law …. and common law is also “olde law”.


  41. There is a public access to the beach and people can swim in the sea as has always been the case … no problem.

    I am sure no one in the past rented “beach” chairs to put on the “land” side of a legal boundary!!

    This issue sounds like more stupidity!!


  42. How about 100 Bajans going to the Crane beach and standing in the sea in front of the Hotel.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Count me out, sea too high and I can’t swim!

    To get that number of Bajans to go in the sea at the Crane is highly unlikely.

    The sea don’t have no back door and Bajans terrified of it!!


  43. Very good discussion, this. Very worthwhile. Certainly one of best threads on BU in the past decade. It’s BU at its best, a light-year away from the conspiracy-theory-burn-the-honkie shite that is BU at its worst.

    Thoughtful contributions from the OP (quite right: let’s see the documents), and excellent input from charles skeete at 7:56 (“there should be limits to land ownership in such a small place like Barbados”), Wily Coyote (passim), and Peter Lawrence Thompson (passim). Thank you for looking into this. Your thoughts surely get us closer to understanding.

    It seems that we have to square a circle, but squares (as history teaches) can often be circled with a little good faith on all sides. The square: since time immemorial, property ownership has been a fundamental precept of the rule of law. None of us would like it if someone tried to park her car in our living room. The perception of the sway of the rule of law is fundamental to investment and development. Ask any dullard suit at one of the ratings agencies.

    The circle: it is a ridiculous proposition that Bajans should not be able to enjoy Bajan beaches. No sane and well-meaning person would agree with it. There is something hideous in the notion of white Mancunians sitting on Crane beach while black girls bring them cocktails. The Mancunians, though, are entirely blameless in this scenario. They worked hard, saved their money, looked into their vacation possibilities, and decided on Bim. Do not burn the honkie. That little girl smiling in the surf at the Crane had nothing to do with slavery.

    It cannot be beyond the wit of humankind to square this circle. It’s just going to take a little good faith, from a few good people. People who, like charles skeete and Wily Coyote and Peter Lawrence Thompson, know how to think.

  44. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @John on March 29, 2018 at 10:51 AM
    “How about 100 Bajans going to the Crane”

    Saturday at 1:30 pm. I’ll take my camera to document how many people show up.

  45. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @John on March 29, 2018 at 10:45
    “Stick to the law ….”

    In order to stick to the law you first need to read it. I invite you to do so.


  46. peterlawrencethompson March 29, 2018 at 10:59

    Your response to the other John made me laugh out loud.


  47. peterlawrencethompson March 29, 2018 at 11:03 AM #
    @John on March 29, 2018 at 10:45
    “Stick to the law ….”
    In order to stick to the law you first need to read it. I invite you to do so.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    If you actually read the excerpt you quote you will realise that until the law changes to reflect the effects of the Super Moons, High Water Mark will be unknown!!!

    Parliament needs to legislate the phases and positions of the moon!!

    Until Parliament acts to address the Moon’s behavior we are stuck with what the law says!!


  48. … all full moons are not created equal!!


  49. John March 29, 2018 at 11:30 AM

    And that, that just right there, is where an intelligent conversation turns to shite. “John” and “Welly” are the most boring and stupid persona ever invented by “David”, but it’s fun to watch them.


  50. John Smith March 29, 2018 at 11:37 AM #
    John March 29, 2018 at 11:30 AM
    And that, that just right there, is where an intelligent conversation turns to shite. “John” and “Welly” are the most boring and stupid persona ever invented by “David”, but it’s fun to watch them.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Has it ever dawned on you that the whole issue is shite?

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