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An interesting and provocative editorial found in The BarbadosAdvocate 29.04.2016.

black-and-white“If you open that Pandora’s box, you never know what Trojan ‘orses will jump out…” –Ernest Bevin (1949)

While Barbados does not proclaim it as poetically as Trinidad & Tobago’s national anthem does, our constitutional ethos implies that here also “every creed and race finds an equal place”. However, there are many Barbadians who, for one reason or another, will justifiably question whether this tenet obtains in practice as opposed to subsisting merely in theory.

As witness recently when there were objections to the description of Barbados as the freest black nation on earth: where the voiced disagreement, surprisingly, was not over the comparative degree of freedom enjoyed locally, but rather over the shade ascribed to the nation. It has ever been thus. Local discussions pertaining to race and colour have always been fraught with tension; a reality owed as much to the sensitive nature of the issue as to the difficulty of determining, among our blackish and whitish citizens, who fits (or should fit) precisely where.

The Ambassador to CARICOM, His Excellency Robert “Bobby” Morris may therefore inadvertently have opened a hornet’s nest with his recent call for an apology by the “descendants of white Barbadian slave owners” to the local “descendants of slaves”’; a vicarious mea culpa that, he counsels, should be accepted by the offerees.

First, Mr Morris, who we have no doubt is well meaning and conciliatory in his call, may have miscalculated the degree of miscegenation that would have occurred in a small concentrated slave society, so that neither his categorization of blackish Barbadians as the descendants of slaves, nor, indeed that of whitish Barbadians as the descendants of white Barbadian slave owners is entirely accurate even at a superficial level.

And it would not be incorrect to assert that the blackish Barbadian, more so than his or her white counterpart, tends to regards this racial mixing as a badge of pride. One expects therefore that some of these individuals would take umbrage at being categorized simply as a member of one category merely by virtue of their current outward appearance. More over, there are many Barbadians, both blackish and whitish, who appear to be frankly bored with any discussion about slavery and who consider that it is high time that we move on with the current global arrangements.

This is not to say that the whitish individuals among us might not have benefited from being thus complected, although we also consider that this phenomenon might have been owed rather to overarching societal norms that place a higher value on the degree of absence of melanin and proceed to confer commercial and social benefits accordingly.

It may be for these reasons that Mr Morris’s call has failed to attract much popular support. Indeed, one prominent local blackish businessman in a letter to the Barbados Advocate earlier this week reminded, “nobody owes us a living. It’s a brave new world…”

They may also account for the similarly lukewarm reception that has greeted the call for reparations for slavery to be paid by European nations to regional countries and their inhabitants. It has always puzzled us how the individual beneficiaries of these reparations should be identified. Will there be a requirement to trace one’s lineage back to an identifiable slave? Or will entitlement be based simply on current phenotype, disregarding the happenstance of any historical irregularity in the bloodline?

The truth is that while there may be a substantial degree of moral justification for an apology and reparations, the years since the dark night of slavery have fundamentally altered the stark racial divisions that then prevailed. To base current events on this same division seems to us unjustified.


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570 responses to “Of Apologies and Compensation”


  1. The Quakers arise out of the Bible becoming accessible to the common man.

    First the invention of the printing press (around 1440) then the translation of the Bible first into German by Martin Luther (died 1546) and English by Tyndale, (died 1536, burnt at the stake) made the Word of God easily accessible to the common man.

    That period is known as the Reformation when the power and influence of the Roman Catholic Church was attacked.

    I think in a nutshell it could be summed up like this.

    The Roman Catholic Church offered salvation through indulgences.

    Forgiveness was granted depending on the sin for a fee.

    Special deals were offered.

    Google indulgences if you are interested.

    Martin Luther realized that forgiveness came through the Grace of God and was free.

    The Roman Catholic Church only allowed the publication of the Bible in Latin and burnt anyone who attempted to translate it into other languages for heresy.

    So Martin Luther ended up in big trouble — excommunicated!!!!!

    The King James Version of the Bible became available in 1611 in England.

    Different people will interpret the Word in different ways so various groups referred to as dissenters arose led by individuals who thought they got the Message and sought to disseminate it.

    Some fell by the wayside, others flourished.

    Some have familiar names, example Puritans and Anabaptists and of course, Quakers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Dissenters

    1648 is the date usually used as the beginning of George Fox’s ministry.

    It just about coincides with the introduction of sugar into Barbados and the advent of African slaves.

    It also was in the middle of the English Civil War when prisoners were being Barbadosed.

    Dissenters felt the Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church were more or less the same.

    Sorry for such a hodge podge of information but clearly an understanding of the past is sadly lacking.

    Please fill in the details with Google if you are interested in getting to know a bit more about the historical facts.


  2. Well Well & Consequences May 6, 2016 at 5:01 PM #

    No John….you google Harriett Tubman and keep reading it until that is all you can think about.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I did and I read all about the Quakers and the Underground Railroad in America!!

  3. Well Well & Consequences Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences

    http://ow.ly/XXgL30002Ga

    Good John…., now this is what we have to give thanks and lots of counting of blessings for….that nature does not unleash on us, because no amount of wealth or riches can save us if we don’t. ..man will have to run.


  4. My fear here in Barbados is the water supply which has been abused beyond imagination to create a few dollars.

    There is a potential natural/man made disaster in the making.

    Don’t really know what God can do about it but decided to stop worrying and leave it with him.

    I can only see disaster with what little understanding I have!!

    I once made a decent living from consulting engineering in construction but cast it aside as I believe what passes for construction here is really destruction.

    I am not too worried about wild fires here

  5. Well Well & Consequences Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences

    John….it’s your buddies Cow & Bizzy et al also helped abuse the water system on the island combined with the careless politicians’ neglect over the last 20 years in changing those over 100 year old pipes, refusal to build dams and wasting water on golf courses, the same people over and over responsible for the destruction of and what will happen next on the island that you now fear.

    Dont ask me how they did it, they can better explain that to you, they did it….they are destructive and that could and will cost lives.


  6. C O Williams Construction survives only because it can devour land.

    That has little to do with skin colour … Rayside Construction works the same as do the other host of construction companies in Barbados

    The real problem is understanding the purpose of the land

    The existence of those construction companies depends on the fact that we have become a Godless society.

    We have become disconnected from our land and this has been made possible through our politicians and historians who relate anything agricultural with slavery.

    When I began to understand a bit more about the Quaker experience in Barbados from about 1648 to perhaps late 1700’s I realized why what I saw as deliberate destruction of the land was happening.

    The robbery that has really taken place is the robbery of our heritage and deliberate undermining of it to facilitate the making of a few dollars.

    That in itself is so far removed from what I came to understand of the impact of Quakers on Barbados.

    I was thinking about Donna’s description of an Anglican business meeting so I decided to google Quaker business meeting and here is what I found.

    This is probably the basis on which Barbados was run for its first 150 years or so.

    I suspect the rise of the Anglican Church from 1800 on has a lot to do with the dissatisfaction many people feel with life in Barbados … and I was baptized and confirmed Anglican

    Many people are absolutely miserable!!

    In my lifetime I remember a time when people always smiled, look at their faces today and you realize it is no longer so.

    I suspect the Quaker way was superseded by the Anglican way and somehow the message of the Gospel got twisted.

    I think the politicians were the final nail in the coffin

  7. Well Well & Consequences Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences

    John…while I agree with much of what you said and no one can tell people what religion to follow or if to follow any religion at all…..it’s my belief that keeping well away from all religions and politics, even further away from politicians, makes the people who do, happier people, always smiling, it’s mankind’s made up shit causing them unhappiness, some people just let themselves be guided by the natural processes of life….and it’s pure bliss.

  8. Colonel Buggy Avatar

    I think the politicians were the final nail in the coffin
    ………………………………………………………………….
    No denying that , John. About two weeks ago we heard one of the many Bishops in Barbados , while presiding over the DLP’s anniversary church service, openly thrashed the Opposition party, and went on to say that the DLP won last time and will win again, as God is on the side of the DLP. Many of us thought that with the disendowment of the Anglican church in Barbados in the late 50’s or early 60’s,putting them on the same footing as the other denominations , that no church in Barbados would any longer have to kowtow to politicians to be favoured with a grant. Sometimes it is very difficult to distinguish the thin line which separates Ministers of Religion from Ministers of Government. And it makes one wonder, with that dear Bishop’s pronouncements, if his entire flock are all members of the DLP.

  9. Colonel Buggy Avatar

    John May 5, 2016 at 9:00 AM #
    Colonel Buggy May 4, 2016 at 11:10 PM #

    The Barbadians who built the sugar industry through their efforts and those of their slaves were not even Anglicans!!
    ………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
    So who exactly were worshiping at the following Parish Churches, before Chapels of Ease were established in the 1800’s
    All Saints Church–Established circa 1649
    Christ Church Parish Church–established circa 1629
    St Andrew Parish Church– established circa 1630
    St George’s Parish Church — destroyed by hurricane in 1780, and later rebuilt
    St James Parish Church -established circa 1675
    St John Parish Church– established circa 1645
    St Joseph Parish church- established circa 1640
    St Michaels Cathedral —Established circa 1630
    St Lucy Parish Church .. established circa 1625
    St Mary’s Church………established circa 1641
    St Thomas Parish Church–Established circa 1629.

  10. Well Well & Consequences Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences

    I would not lose a night’s rest if they all burn to the ground, they have single handedly done more damage to the people on earth’s psyche than any other manmade nonsense, including causing wars……except for politics and politicians, but they both are extremely destructive forces, made even more so by modern socirty.

  11. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Colonel Buggy May 7, 2016 at 12:04 AM

    Thanks, Colonel, for producing that list of early retail outlets peddling the god business.
    That should burst the intellectual bubble of that pseudo historian called the ‘back-row’ Johnny.
    What that ‘colourful’ johnny for a historian has to tell us if there were inhabitants on the island when his 50% white ancestors first accidentally ran aground on the West Coast. Who provided that hungry dehydrated stranded lot with fresh water and food?

    Who or what killed off the natives? Was it the white man diseases or the musket used on them because of their refusal to succumb to forced labour?

    Colonel, the date cited for the establishment for the St. Lucy Parish Church seems a bit early (circa 1625??); given that the historians all ‘agree’ the English first ‘set foot’ in 1625 in the Olive Blossom which ran aground at “Jamestown”.
    I suspect that St. Lucy branch of the god business ‘owned’ by King Charlie at the time might have been opened some time after the “Great Barbados Robbery”.

    Maybe Historian John the 50% “direct” descendant of William Arnold of All Saints- now a converted Quaker and the BU resident expert on all things pro-slavery- can confirm.


  12. Well Well,

    My psyche isn’t damaged and tomorrow I’ll be worshiping there. Religious fanatics are the problem. Those who take the Bible literally are the problem. Those who misuse the Bible for their own ends are the problem. My experience with God has made me kind and caring, self-confident, assertive and very active in promoting social justice. The Europeans may have distorted God’s image for some but God had no hand in distorting his own image. Isn’t it amazing how you and I can end up on the same side? Those Christians without bias can SEE.

    By the way, the “white people” no longer run the Anglican Church. That is why many years ago I led a rocking Emancipation Day service African Style celebrating our heritage and why it continues to this day in the church I attend. We are now involved in promoting social justice.

  13. Vincent Haynes Avatar
    Vincent Haynes

    Fascinating discussion going on here and I note the absence of BT in this mix.

    John has pointed out the path to research,something we take lightly by accepting the first article we come across instead of doing copious cross referencing in order to come as close as possible to an ancient truth,bearing in mind that it can never be fully established.


  14. “Sargeant May 5, 2016 at 10:39 AM #

    @MB
    It is interesting that black people in Toronto demanded and received their own school. That seems to be Segregation to me. Why was it necessary? Surely makes more sense to fight the system from inside, many senior educators in Toronto have been and are black. Why were they not demanding a more black user friendly approach by rooting out the racists and problems in the system?”

    Makes more sense to me to be masters of your own fate than fighting to be accepted as second class citizens in an environment which despises you. Illegalising a sensitive and controversial issue does not change the feeling of the heart. Why do you want to fight to be in a system inimical to your interests when you can create your own system to your own advantage. We only sell ourselves short and make whites feel they are really superior to us when we continually fight to be in bed with them.

  15. Well Well & Consequences Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences

    Donna…the distortion and it’s effects are what the world has to deal with, it has caused many centuries of destruction….and it ain’t done yet.

  16. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ balance May 7, 2016 at 9:02 AM
    “Why do you want to fight to be in a system inimical to your interests when you can create your own system to your own advantage. We only sell ourselves short and make whites feel they are really superior to us when we continually fight to be in bed with them.”

    Too late my friend!
    “Whites” have already molded blacks in the image of inferiority and subservience to them.
    Just look at how blacks would kill one another for a white ‘blue-eyes’ god called Jesus.
    Ask any Bajan “Christian” who is the ‘better’ son of god, Jesus or Mohammed; and see what kind of cussing you would get.

    And if you think that is bad enough, check the hair hats worn by black women and see the indelible marks of indoctrination of inferiority the whites have branded into the psyche of blacks.

    The liberation of the black mind must begin with the black woman.

    I am putting it to Donna that there is no way she could practice any kind of African-based religious rituals and still be an “Anglican”.


  17. Colonel Buggy May 7, 2016 at 12:04 AM #

    John May 5, 2016 at 9:00 AM #
    Colonel Buggy May 4, 2016 at 11:10 PM #

    The Barbadians who built the sugar industry through their efforts and those of their slaves were not even Anglicans!!
    ……………………………………………………………………………
    So who exactly were worshiping at the following Parish Churches, before Chapels of Ease were established in the 1800’s
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Colonel, I don’t know how to put this but the answer is not many Anglicans!!

    The dates you recite are for the appearance of physical buildings and we could talk for ever about whether the physical building is the church or whether God’s people make up the church.

    Quakers worshipped at Anglican churches too!!!

    … but they also worshipped in the fields, at other Quaker’s houses and generally speaking all over the place.

    They were invariably Anglicans to begin with!!

    Some were Jews, some were even slaves!!

    It may help if you think of them as “born again Christians”!!

    If you take the time to research the thinking behind Quaker beliefs you will see the Quakers believe that the light of God is present in everyone, man, woman, child slave free etc.

    So women and men are equal, … at the time that was sacrilege and put them in big trouble, but we accept this today because Quakers introduced it … but we don’t have a clue how we got to that way of thinking!!

    The belief that put Quakers into the biggest trouble however is the belief that that there is no need for a priest to intercede between you and God.

    This brought them into conflict with the King because the King was head of church and state and the priests in the Anglican Church were appointed by the King.

    Quakers are buried in the various Anglican churchyards too, and in the fields and on the hills and all over in Barbados.

    There are no records in existence of many of their burials.

    Quakers did not go in for baptism and their marriages were witnessed at their meetings. Burials were also recorded at meetings.

    There is a vast number of records, the minutes of the various Quaker meetings in the island, which are not available.

    If you go and look for records of burials, baptisms and marriages at those churches you list to see who actually is in their records only St. Michael, Christ Church and St. Philip have any significant records of congregants in the 1600’s!!!

    I have heard various historians try to explain the discrepancy, I have even heard an explanation which suggests the priest ran off with them.

    Usually it is “they were destroyed in a hurricane”.

    I think there is a more simple explanation, … there were not many if any congregants in most of the Anglican churches in the early period of settlement.

    Yeah, there may have been a building, but it was empty!!

    Assuming you are from St. Thomas given you speak a lot of Mount Wilton, If you wanted to research an ancestor in the St. Thomas church records you would be unable to find a baptism prior to 1728 or a marriage or burial prior to 1723.

    St. George starts in 1801.

    St. Peter is 1779.

    In St. Lucy, 1747 is the earliest date for parochial records.

    St. Joseph is 1718

    In St. James, baptisms, marriages and burials start in 1693.

    In St. John, Marriages and Burials date from 1657 but Baptisms only appear in the records from 1805.

    I may be wrong on some of those years but I know most Bajans reach a roadblock in researching their genealogy because of this gap in the records.

    I did too!!

    Many cannot come to terms with the fact that their ancestors may not have been Anglican so they miss the obvious!!

    If the minutes of the Quaker meetings are ever found and made available, that gap will be removed.

    That is probably why I suspect that a lot of white Bajans don’t really go to church!!

    Their earliest ancestors did not, why should they.

    They were invariably in conflict with the church.

    Quakerism is literally in their blood.

    To even begin to understand white Bajans, you need to get over this hurdle and embrace the obvious!!

    My impression is that Anglicanism came to the fore getting up to Emancipation.

    Tens of thousands of freed slaves needed to be educated, baptized and brought into the mainstream and the Anglican Church had the resources to do it, the Quakers did not.

    That’s why I am beginning to think that Anglicanism is mostly a “black” religion in Barbados!!

    So Donna’s observation of reality I believe matches my theories of how it got so.

    It also explains why some contributors here believe the church brainwashed their ancestors … I think it did that with mine too.

    … but I found a way to come to terms, understand and overcome that brainwashing and still remain true to the basic teachings I received which are true!!

    Many Bajans are lost.


  18. … and again, if you research Quakerism you will find that the rights of the individual are respected.

    I suspect that forcing their beliefs on slaves many of whom had until emancipation had chosen not to embrace them would have gone against their thinking


  19. … so, the Anglican Church did the job

  20. Colonel Buggy Avatar
    Colonel Buggy

    And its not much different in Barbados today,
    http://i.imgur.com/GmwuX9g.jpg?1


  21. Maybe its time to explore the simple Quaker beliefs that were around probably before any stone church was built in Barbados by any religion.

    But Colonel, I interested to know if any of your ancestors appear written on your family vault and if so from how early.


  22. Balance wrote
    Makes more sense to me to be masters of your own fate than fighting to be accepted as second class citizens in an environment which despises you. Illegalising a sensitive and controversial issue does not change the feeling of the heart.

    I dont believe that there exists that high % of racists in the Toronto Education system and generally in this country. Not saying there are not any but it should be manageable with the formation of allegiances. I have seen very mature white Bball refs that were obviously intent on being much tougher on White kids. My son and another key team mate were fouled out of a key playoff game when neither had ever fouled out before, far less in the same game. Same Ref conducted himself similarly in daughter s games.

    Son’s baseball coach purposely favoured a mixed race kid even though he had not produced and in the previous year abandoned the team to play Ice Hockey during playoffs. Coach arrived late )literally 5 mins to game time) for an out of town game because he waited for the same player for nearly an hour. The player could NOT make the starting line up on performance or ability.

    Certainly Teachers who discriminate against black kids should be severely reprimanded and then fired if they dont reform!


  23. Miller,

    You’ll find Anglican churches in Africa where the local culture is embraced. Christianity actually spread to Africa before it ever reached Britain. But Miller I am not only of African descent. There’s some European blood too no matter how it got there. Reality must be faced. There’s a lot about British culture and Britain that I absolutely love and likewise with African culture. They live in harmony within me. The mix is what makes me Barbadian.

  24. Vincent Haynes Avatar
    Vincent Haynes

    BBC1,had an interesting programme this morning on our favourite subject see attached.
    What was interesting was the ability to discuss it with all of its warts in a civil manner and no polarisation by virtue of pigment……check out the Lady Caribbean priest and her take.

    Should we be proud of the British Empire?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07bl14c

  25. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Vincent Haynes May 8, 2016 at 8:26 AM

    VH, you beat me too it. Saw it myself but was taken up with Sunday chores.

    Most interesting points from both sides of the “Big Question” debate.
    The reverend Lady (I believe she is of the Anglican faith and is/was the chaplain of the Lower House of Parliament) raised a powerfully informative matter about compensation /reparations for the British Empire role in the slavery business in the Caribbean.

    As I consistently argue the basis for any material compensation to Afro-Caribbean people, both at home and in the Diaspora, lies not in any emotionally misplaced moral case of revenge by getting back at the descendants of whites who lived in the Caribbean at that time of slavery but one of natural justice and equality of treatment vis-à-vis that awarded to the slave owners.

    I can say she is well positioned, being a black woman from a ‘victimized’ past and a ‘believable’ person of the cloth (dog collar in all), to effectively argue a case for reparations.

    However, I do support the argument that compensation must come in financial form. Maybe forgiveness of the national debt for countries like Barbados and Jamaica who bore the brunt of the deleterious effects of slavery as witnessed today in the dichotomous psyche of people from both countries; one of irrational violence and the other of an extreme racial inferiority complex of servitude and subservience and dependence on the white man for their existence.

    The major slice of any reparations must take the form of education and training opportunities for the young in areas to technically and psychologically equip them to make their mark in a very competitive global village.
    What about scholarships in the UK for the outstanding youth (blacks only as a version of affirmative action) funding for black students attending the UWI?

  26. Vincent Haynes Avatar
    Vincent Haynes

    millertheanunnaki May 8, 2016 at 9:13 AM #

    The discussion must continue…..I do not have a solution to the obviously disturbed feelings of some of the Caribbean bretheren&sisteren.

    Some facts are that a number of the non-european slave owners were paid out at emancipation,many of the progeny of the slave trade from both tribes have moved on and realise that progression is achieved by moving forward with and not by looking back at what happened to ones ancestors……..the argument about looking at the Jews,is a non-point as we have to stop measuring ourselves by looking at others…….As we move forward on a hard road it will only test us and make us stronger……I personally believe that morality is based on pragmatism,hence no purpose in an apology I also believe that accepting crumbs from anyones table is a form of mendicancy and will not build the character that is required for a new society which can lead the world.

    Chuckle…..that my friend is my Sunday epistle……


  27. @Miller
    You must forgive me, but sometimes I get so distracted by a phrase or a sentence that I desire more information.

    The sentence “What about scholarships in the UK for the outstanding youth (blacks only as a version of affirmative action) funding for black students attending the UWI?” give me some cause for concerns.

    (1) So if they are not too bright they stay at UWI?
    (2) I seem to read in this statement that you consider UWI to be inferior to similar
    institutions in the UK
    (3) If the course is offered at UWI should the real bright ones be still sent to the UK?

    It seems as if your battles with Zoe has taken some pace off of your bowling 🙂


  28. @Miller, @Vincent
    Seems as if the link only works in the UK…
    I like your epistle….

    Seems as if John is in church.. Let’s hope it is a religion that keeps him off of the computer on Sundays. We all deserve one day free from p̶u̶n̶i̶s̶h̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ John.


  29. I confess, I really don’t go to Church ….. but I reckon you should have been able to figure that one out given my contributions … shame on you!!

    Colonel, I am going to send you, and anyone who may be interested in our history, to what is believed to be the “Old Churchyard” in Maxwell’s Coast Road … incidentally, the early Maxwell family was Quaker too!!

    The story I got was that there was a hurricane and the waves rushed in and unearthed all the coffins and carried them out to sea so Christ Church was relocated to where we see it now, on top Oistin’s hill, the early Oistin Family was Quaker too!!

    In fact what we believe to be the slave burial Ground at Newton I believe to be that of Edward Oistin, 1669. Slaves will be buried there too because of the philosophy of the Quakers.

    He made provision for the burial of poor people called Quakers in a half acre of land …. but I digress, back to the “Old Churchyard”

    Go and look at the few inscriptions that are there.

    You will see Francis Ford, 1772 on one family vault.

    What is he doing being buried there and not in Christ Church on Oistin’s Hill if he was an Anglican?

    Maybe he wanted to be buried with his family, or, maybe he just did not want to be buried in the Anglican Parish Church.

    I cannot find a record of his burial but anyone who wants to prove me wrong can go and look.

    My bet is that slaves were buried in “The old Churchyard” because it was a Quaker burial … just as they were buried at Newton.

    Look at the other inscriptions and see what years the burials took place.

    I remember an Adams and a Browne and one family vault with absolutely no inscription whatsoever.

    … but if you do go there, and you do come around to my way of thinking let me prepare you for a shock.

    Butch Stewart has laid waste to the burial ground of our ancestors, slave and Quaker!!

    … all compliments of the Barbados Government

    … who would like to collect reparations for the sufferings of our slave ancestors the destruction of whose last mortal remains they themselves have overseen!!!

    So, if you do go there, I hope you leave with an utter revulsion for the hypocrites we have as leaders … if you don’t have it already.

    They have inflicted destruction on our heritage more severe than any category of any previous or future hurricane!!


  30. Ah well, Vincent and Miller over in sunny old England, such as life.

    I was unable to access the BBC program because it is only available in the UK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The universe is unfolding as it should!!


  31. millertheanunnaki May 8, 2016 at 9:13 AM #

    VH, you beat me too it. Saw it myself but was taken up with Sunday chores.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I hope you and Vincent don’t get in each other’s way while you are doing your chores!!

  32. Vincent Haynes Avatar
    Vincent Haynes

    John

    Chuckle…….Wuhloss,you getting like BT wid dem innuendos

    A reminder for you….John May 1, 2016 at 12:40 PM #

    Reminding you to look for the FitzHerbert extract.

  33. Vincent Haynes Avatar
    Vincent Haynes

    TheGazer May 8, 2016 at 10:20 AM #

    I have always felt that we should develop our own curriculum to suit our needs,so I agree with you about sending Caribbean persons to the UK or anywhere for that matter(I will ignore the need for pigment differention),my concern lies with the absence of a vision that will give us our needs.

  34. Well Well & Consequences Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences

    “However, I do support the argument that compensation must come in financial form. Maybe forgiveness of the national debt for countries like Barbados and Jamaica who bore the brunt of the deleterious effects of slavery as witnessed today in the dichotomous psyche of people from both countries; one of irrational violence and the other of an extreme racial inferiority complex of servitude and subservience and dependence on the white man for their existence.

    The major slice of any reparations must take the form of education and training opportunities for the young in areas to technically and psychologically equip them to make their mark in a very competitive global village.
    What about scholarships in the UK for the outstanding youth (blacks only as a version of affirmative action) funding for black students attending the UWI?”

    Miller……..I agree wholeheartedly with what you said, but the whole of the Caribbean must be compensated….all debts wiped clean, including Haiti, England also benefitted from the enslavement of their ancestors….England and France shared and shared alike….all the evil and booty was divvied up. And the descendands of slaves must have a say in how other compensations not in the form of money, should be directed….while making absolutely clear that not one dime should ever be put in the hands of politicians from any of the islands.


  35. WW
    Agreed that any reparations should be Education or new Hospital BUT giving big CASH to youth would be a big mistake. History has proven that humans who are given large amounts of $$$ via inheritance, lotto etc typically mess their lives up. I have made it very clear to my kids that they MUST show me they deserve an inheritance by their actions OR there will be a lot of happy Bow Wows at the pound!

  36. Well Well & Consequences Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences

    Lol….I too do not agree with giving money to young people in very large amounts, but if I had to choose between giving them and putting it in the hands of politicians, the youth would win hands down….in this scenario re reparations, it should be education for the black youth at least 100 years into the future, even more would be fair, given the 500+ plus years of destruction., devoid of rewritten history, it’s truth time and new hospitals for the islands who need new ones cant hurt either.

    There are many very positive ways to distribute reparations without putting money in politicians hands to cause more chaos, confusion and destruction, given their years of displaying their inability to resolve simple issues and keep corruption off the islands….or arrest the minorities and other business people, who take gleeful pleasure in keeping corruption alive and well in Barbados.

    I tell my grown kids expect to get what is a available while am alive…same advice to the grands who are old enough to understand. I dont believe in wills and I have no intention of leaving confusion behind..someone was telling me about the Power Estate, where the father had 14 children and claimed he was leaving it so they will kill each other over it, sad to hear 20 years after his death, family are still trying to kill each other by withholding much needed funds in their old age. Sorry to hear Carl has to experience that mess at his age.


  37. WW
    Any $$$$ pasing through Pols hands would quickly become 30 cents!


  38. I think the Fitzherbert extract might upset some people so I was going easy on putting it up!!

    It is written in 1825, just 9 years after 1816 and reflects the relationship between an absentee proprietor and his slaves.

    …. and yes, he does refer to his slaves as though they belong to a different race, …. except that he considers that race to be superior to his!!


  39. …. oh what the heck, we are all supposedly adults!!

    Here is a description of what Fitzherbert meets as he approaches Turners Hall on his horse. He is riding from Alleynedale in St. Peter.

    “As soon as our approach was discovered at Turner’s Hall, We were greeted with a long continued shout, and The Negroes very soon surrounded me, and almost pulled me off my horse.

    We alighted and entered the Porch of the House, where They crowded about me, pouring forth in the warmest language their joy, and good wishes, and inquiring very particularly after their Mistress, and all my Children, of whom, when I informed Them of the number, They set up a loud cheer.

    They then brought a chair for me, placing it within the Hall, while They themselves remained in the Porch but they encouraged all the little Children to go forward, amongst whom, I was knee deep.

    Many of the older ones wished to have kissed my feet, and I was enveloped in their embraces.

    A very fine old man, above an hundred years old, appeared to possess great influence over Them.

    This venerable veteran is very active both in mind and body; He is the Head Herdsman.

    This race are invariably graceful in every action, and their manners infinitely superior to what are found in most English Drawing rooms.

    It was one of my first inquiries to discover amongst Them, Those who had seen, and recollected my Father; and I was glad to find several.

    They described Him exactly, and spoke of Him as a Father.

    They then gently up braided me for not having come out sooner, and They told me, that They had suffered very much, until Sir Reynold Alleyne had become my Attorney.

    They told me, that under Sir Reynold They wanted nothing, and They addressed Him as their Second Master, and in such moving and affectionate terms, as to overpower his feelings, and He retired with the Manager, leaving me in the midst of my Sable People.

    I highly appreciated this delicate act, for it gave Them an opportunity of opening their hearts to me, if They had any grievances to divulge, uncontrolled by the presence of either Himself, or the Manager.

    We of course gave Them the remainder of the Day, and We proceeded to see the Works, and all the Buildings, and Walked over a part of the Estate.

    All those who could play the fiddle or any musical instrument immediately assembled; and They all began to dance round an old Tree, and though untaught, I affirm with the greatest truth, that I never saw such easy and graceful movements.

    Mr. D’Equille would be too proud to have such scholars.

    Even the old Man, Harry Carter, selected a very fine young woman, and danced as merrily as the rest.

    After the dance, They sang extempore ode upon my visit; for They have the art of making any subject the theme of a song, which They most readily accommodate to the softest melody.

    It is impossible to describe their manner of singing; it is peculiarly singular, and in a great variety of parts; but though unpremeditated, and each party apparently ignorant of what his companion will produce, there is a perfect harmony, and the whole theory of thorough bass appears to be innate in Them. ”

    …. and VH, there is only one Klutz I know in my life that something like that could have happened to!!

  40. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ TheGazer May 8, 2016 at 10:20 AM
    “(1) So if they are not too bright they stay at UWI?
    (2) I seem to read in this statement that you consider UWI to be inferior to similar
    institutions in the UK
    (3) If the course is offered at UWI should the real bright ones be still sent to the UK?”

    The precedent for such conditions has been set by the Government of Barbados (GoB) which every year spends thousands of foreign dollars on scholarship winners who pursue the traditional disciplines of medicine and engineering at universities other than the UWI.

    Under my proposal the GoB would NOT have to fund those ‘black’ scholarship winners; saving the country much needed foreign exchange. Why not demand the number of scholarship tenable at UK universities be set at 25 per year for the next 40 or 50 years?

    If you can tell us where the UWI stands in relation to UK based universities on the international ranking table then we can build a case for the UWI being their first choice and the funds remitted from the British Treasury accordingly.

    BTW, Zoe’s train of thought can run only on monorail. Any topic outside of the Adam& Eve storybook of fairy tales leaves poor batty Zoe the dragon in total awe and intellectual disequilibrium as if slain by St. George or an earlier version.


  41. One of Fitzherbert slaves made his way into this movie


  42. Was it Harry?

    Here is his return from 1820 ….. Harry was not over 100, ….. just 83 … and his occupation was given as Cattle Keeper …. not far from Chief Herdsman!!

    This was probably the man spoken of in the narrative

    http://interactive.ancestry.com/1129/CSUK1817_133764-00631/2669558?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.com%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dBritishSlaves%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_r_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3dharry%26gsfn_x%3d0%26gskw%3dhenry%2520fitzherbert%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d0%26uidh%3dud5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults


  43. Django movie was excellent, I like Jamie Foxx, that bro is exceedingly talented. Played Ray very well too.


  44. … actually, in 1823 Harry would have been 86!!

    The return was 1820!!


  45. Meanwhile over 6000 miles away in Zimbabwe an African writer is reviewing a white colonizer class politico turned author, in which the two opposing perspectives are placed in context.The Bussa rivalry of Drs Beckles and Watson is alive and well in Zimbabwe

    http://www.herald.co.zw/coltart-history-and-our-story-as-africans


  46. So, let’s compare the fantasy of the Movies with the reality of Turner’s Hall Plantation in 1823 using the actual real slave return for Turner’s Hall.

    The oldest slave on the plantation in 1823 was Harry.

    He was still fit enough to dance and to mind cattle at 86.

    There was one house servant, and he was 15 years old!!

    There was a hospital nurse, a woman who minded the children and a seamstress.

    My guess these ladies did not work in the house but worked to assist the slaves and their children.

    Apart from the young children, all able slaves worked in production, except one who worked in the house.

    At least once in every year for almost two decades I parked my car at Turner’s Hall Plantation and hiked all over in the hills around it.

    I know it like the palm of my hand!!

    The house was eventually demolished but I went through it on several occasions as it was abandoned.

    It was a simple one story affair, vastly inferior to any that I see building today, even the prefab units.

    Fitzherbert rode to Turner’s Hall because there was no suitable accommodation at Turner’s Hall for him, …. no great house, no nothing!!!!

    He rode a horse because no fancy sprung carriage would make it into the Scotland District and up the hill to Turner’s Hall!!!

    Now, if all you do is watch movies, your reality is the fantasy they provide you with, for a fee!!

    If on the other hand you can see firsthand what remains of the operation at Turner’s Hall, you quickly appreciate the vast difference between fantasy and reality and wonder if the fee you paid was worth it!!

    Here are other glaring discrepancies in the clip.

    The clip shows perhaps a dozen slaves all standing around and not interacting with anyone.

    All are adults!!

    Fitzherbert had about 150 and it sounds like they were very lively and enjoyed his visit, and if you count the children in the return you will realize there were a great deal.

    There is no way the wealth portrayed by the owner in the film could possibly have been supported by a dozen slaves …. it was probably a low budget operation and a dozen was all the extras that could be afforded.

    I am sure Jamie Fox gave a good performance but I don’t know because I really don’t watch any movies like before …. I like to deal in facts!!

    Remember, …… fantasy ….. reality …. huge difference!!!!


  47. The rain is pouring up by me.

    I can’t remember the last time I heard that sound on the roof!!!

    Thanks God!!

  48. Well Well & Consequences Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences

    “They then gently up braided me for not having come out sooner, and They told me, that They had suffered very much, until Sir Reynold Alleyne had become my Attorney.

    They told me, that under Sir Reynold They wanted nothing, and They addressed Him as their Second Master, and in such moving and affectionate terms, as to overpower his feelings, and He retired with the Manager, leaving me in the midst of my Sable People.

    I highly appreciated this delicate act, for it gave Them an opportunity of opening their hearts to me, if They had any grievances to divulge, uncontrolled by the presence of either Himself, or the Manager.

    We of course gave Them the remainder of the Day, and We proceeded to see the Works, and all the Buildings, and Walked over a part of the Estate.

    All those who could play the fiddle or any musical instrument immediately assembled; and They all began to dance round an old Tree, and though untaught, I affirm with the greatest truth, that I never saw such easy and graceful movements.”

    That’s what you get when you treat people as less than human for several generstions, John, take them out of their culture, their language and for centuries there was no environment where they could learn or strive…they could not articulate in English and many of the descendants are still challenged in that respect today in 2016, because of the slavery experience. …the dead masters must be proud,


  49. http://interactive.ancestry.com/1129/CSUK1817_133762-00172/3129967?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.com%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dBritishSlaves%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_r_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msrpn__ftp%3dbarbados%26gskw%3dbenjamin%2520ifill%26MSAV%3d0%26uidh%3dud5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=CSUK1817_133762-00170

    … and here is the slave return from 1817 for neighbouring Haggatts owned by Benjamin Ifil.

    My impression from wondering about that plantation yard and house is that it was a far richer plantation than Turner’s Hall.

    It has a two storey house, pretty modest but it was abandoned and cracked …. way way inferior to any house that is building now!!

    Three house servants, a 61 year old man and a boy and girl in their teens.

    The plantation supported two invalids who obviously could not work.

    There is an attendant for the children probably for when their parents were in the field.

    Far more slaves than neighbouring Turner’s Hall.

    It was one of the earliest plantations to convert from wind to steam because of the proximity of water ….. which ends up in Long Pond.

    Compared with the clip, pretty modest and exposes also the difference between fantasy and reality.


  50. WC

    So how many of their descendants you see rushing to go back to Africa?

    The charade that passes for our culture today is ridiculous, pure fantasy!!

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