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Jeff Cumberbatch - New Chairman of the FTC
Jeff Cumberbatch – New Chairman of the FTC

It would appear as if the aspirations of those seemingly very few of us who harbour โ€œhigh hopesโ€ of our nation assuming formal constitutional republican status in our fiftieth year of independent statehood have been dashed by the recent prime ministerial announcement that there is the likelihood of a Royal visit in November this year. Of course, there may well be those constant โ€œrepublicansโ€ who will hopefully view this as indicative confirmation of a break with the British monarchy, and liken the proposed visit to that of the royal couple who attended our first Independence ceremony in 1966.

There may be some force in this reasoning. After all, the visit of British [I assume] royalty to our fiftieth anniversary celebration of a break from Britain does seem particularly incongruous, but I prefer to err with the view that this may simply be good old Barbadian hospitality and, since the royal family is the bloodline in which our executive authority formally resides currently, it would be bad manners not to invite its representation at our jubilee celebrations.

In other words, the announcement was, if nothing else, decidedly cryptic, and more so given the occasion and audience. So I shall continue my musings today on the likelihood of our becoming a constitutional republic, much, maybe, like the ant in the songโ€ฆ that thought that he could move a rubber tree plant. Fortunately, my sentiment for the change does not depend on mere political whimsy.

As I noted in this space last week, a significant amount of the opposition to โ€œRepublicanismโ€ โ€“I use the capital R advisedly, as will become apparent later- is owed to partisan political sentiment, and I refer to both of the occasions on which the respective parties touted the notion. This apart, there may be a few who are still wedded to the phenomenon of monarchy, although not a localized version of the concept that would, in any event, contravene our constitutional ethos of egalitarianism.

However, there are also those who simply have no idea of what republicanism means, and do not care to find out. Simply put, it is a form of governance where supreme power resides in the people and is exercised through their elected representatives in accordance with law. Thus republicanism is clearly our current practical reality; all that is needed โ€“what I call the irreducible minimum- to achieve the formal Constitutional process of โ€œRepublicanismโ€ is the express location of formal executive authority under the Constitution in a native head of state.

Nonetheless, the amalgamation of these various dissenting groups does present formidable numerical, if scarcely rational, opposition to the process. When their counter is not premised on the minutiae of appointing the local executive authority โ€“will he or she be elected or selected? By whom or what? For how long? -; there is the issue of timing and prioritization โ€“not now in our current economic state; not with this Government; not before everyone has a guaranteed reliable supply of running water in his or her household; not yet; the financial costs โ€“of altering the names of places and institutions; of creating new letterheads; and of changing legislative documents and contracts, [one wag even suggested we would have to renegotiate ratified treaties]. In respect of this last, one recalls Oscar Wildeโ€™s definition of a cynic โ€“ โ€œa man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothingโ€.

One argument that merits some consideration, however, is that of subjecting the entire process to a referendum. While this proposition may be, at first blush, irrefutable in the interest of direct democracy, there are, nevertheless, some factors that may substantially relegate this to a head count of opposition rather than it becoming the reasoned sophisticated conclusion that should attend our public affairs.

For instance, the question should be precisely put so as to avoid misunderstanding but, as some of us are aware, a question is not asked in a vacuum, but exists, rather, in a cloud of assumptions and (mis)understandings. In this regard, an apparently simple referendum such as โ€œShould Barbados become a republic? Yes or Noโ€ could easily be converted into one of those questions in Latin that suggests the answer by the first word used. Presumably, most of those in favour of the change to formal status will vote โ€œYesโ€, although there may be some who would consider the question nonsensical since we are already a republic by convention.

However, the question appears predisposed to dissent, whether this is based on personal opposition to the idea, politically partisan sentiment because of the identity and propaganda of the proponents or opponents; sheer ignorance of the concept proposed; or merely the way in which the reference is formulated.

It may be argued that the general election process is not much different, but that, at least, is demanded by constitutional fiat. The referendum is not now part of our constitutional architecture and, always, the question begs asking, which political measures should be rendered subject to this process?

In the context of government, for examples, Independence was not, at least formally; accession to the Caribbean Court of Justice was not; and the existence and configuration of the Senate were not. Should we include then all taxation proposals; ambassadorial appointments; what should be taught at UWI; and which historical sites should be considered apt for preservationโ€ฆ.?

A quotation from a former British politician on referenda is instructive. According to him, after making reference to their use by Hitler and Mussolini, โ€œ I think referendums are fundamentally anti-democratic in our systemโ€ฆon the whole, governments only concede them when governments are weakโ€ฆโ€


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118 responses to “The Jeff Cumberbatch Column – The New Republic”


  1. Jeff

    No quarel with your definition of a Republic.

    Do you see anything wrong in presenting to the populi a vision as to how we shall differ from what we are today…..but then you said their is no difference as we are already a republic……so all we need is for the leaders to declare us a Republic…..the benefit then lies in the feel good factor…….hope I have read you correctly.


  2. [one wag even suggested we would have to renegotiate ratified treaties]. In respect of this last, one recalls Oscar Wildeโ€™s definition of a cynic โ€“ โ€œa man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothingโ€.

    Oscar Wilde knew of what he was speaking and to which i concur and have found those words to be formidable and speaks of truth especially when in heated discourse with the opposition .They are “those” who say what can i do to make a difference and “those ” who reply with words of indifference
    Which takes my thoughts back to the meaning of Republicanism and a symbolism of freedom regulated by self worth and a determination for self governance without strings attached

  3. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    You have, Vincent.


  4. Steupsss…

    Anyhow, if even Einstein was forced to write an article every week, no doubt he would write some real shiite occasionally too… no one is perfect.

    The argument against a referendum is crass intellectual snobbery.
    It suggests that the ‘foolish people’ have no idea what the issue is really about; that it is too complex for their simple minds to understand….and should therefore be decided by their intellectual superiors…. largely You and Froon.

    Lotta shiite.

    The final paragraph, referencing what some ‘former British politician’ had to say, is another insult to our intelligence.
    …So anything used by Hitler, Mussolini or AC is now tainted as ‘anti democratic’ and weak…? That includes soap, public oratory, Government propaganda and sex?

    Give us a break Jeff man….. You are just lucky that Bushie is too old, too rich and too busy to be in one of your classes…. ๐Ÿ™‚


  5. @Bush Tea

    If we accept the issue of going a Republic is largely distilled through a political lens then there is merit to the argument that many will not make a decision based on a rational thinking.

  6. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Jeff Cumberbatch:
    โ€œIndependence was not, at least formally; accession to the Caribbean Court of Justice was not; and the existence and configuration of the Senate were not. Should we include then all taxation proposals; ambassadorial appointments; what should be taught at UWI; and which historical sites should be considered apt for preservationโ€ฆ.?โ€

    Aren’t you being a bit academically facetious here, Jeff?

    Barbados was a colony before Independence. There was No โ€˜indigenousโ€™ Constitution. A people either fight for Independence or it is โ€˜givenโ€™ to them by the same colonizers for their own political or economic advantages as in the case of Barbados.

    If not by the way of the more democratically flavoured method of Referendum how would the change from the current monarchical form of Constitutional governance to โ€œTrueโ€ republicanism be effected without a two-thirds vote in the Lower House? Was the CCJ Amendment faced with this two-thirds dilemma?

    Are you โ€˜insinuatingโ€™ there has been a tacit agreement among the political class that a republican form government based on the necessary amendments to the existing Constitution will be thrust upon the people, come hell or high water in spite of the genuine feelings (informed or otherwise) of the majority of the people?

    What does that say about the billions of hardworking taxpayersโ€™ dollars spent โ€˜educatingโ€™ a nation during the same 50 years of so-called Independence? Has that investment been a whole waste of resources?
    How does that reflect on the same UWI that (as it seems from the lack of confidence in the peopleโ€™s ability to reason) has failed to produce a sufficient pool of critical thinkers (graduates) to make informed and reasonable decisions in respect of the countryโ€™s political status and preferred form of governance?

    What would happen should the Opposition NOT play ball behind the scenes and demand a Referendum before consenting to the change? Wouldnโ€™t that reflect the sovereignty of the People as demonstrated on every occasion they are required to go to the polls to elect their Parliamentary representatives within the โ€œFirst Pass the Pollโ€ system with all its defects, flaws, warts and all?

    The current administration, in its push to formal republicanism, would be sitting on a solid base of integrity with the peopleโ€™s support if a desire for a change in the governance system was included as a promise or policy proposal in the last manifesto or even if the promise of FOI and Integrity Legislation was genuinely followed through and fully implemented; Republicanism or No republicanism.


  7. @David January 17, 2016 at 8:56 AM #

    Going into a Republic status is a golden opportunity for a political party to offer by referendum or election guarantee a new constitution which dotts the “I”s & crossing the “T”s whilst adding from the myriad of points highlighted in the many studies.

    When I say election guarantee,I do not mean a manifesto but a signed legal undertaking,which some bright lawyer can attempt to make water tight.


  8. @Vincent

    Theoretically what you are suggesting would be only one plank to build the platform of a new party on, also, the emergence of a new party must be built on a wider vision – your words.


  9. @David January 17, 2016 at 9:11 AM #

    Exactly David,it would encapsulate the new vision.

  10. Well Well & Consequences Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences

    “However, there are also those who simply have no idea of what republicanism means, and do not care to find out. Simply put, it is a form of governance where supreme power resides in the people and is exercised through their elected representatives in accordance with law. ”

    Can’t have in both ways, either the people have supreme power including the right to choose, or not, republic status or at least have a right to hear more or they don’t.

    Which ever way it goes lets hope the local politicians are finally dragged into the 21st century and understand that “supreme power resides in the people and is exercised through their elected representatives in accordance with law. “

  11. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Bush Tea January 17, 2016 at 8:52 AM

    Great!
    Certainly confirms what I was penning while you were posting.
    We could as well close down the schools and get rid of the UWI.
    When the academic class hijacks the democratic process and imposes its will on ordinary citizens then that form of governance surpasses the evils of a theocracy.


  12. How is supreme power located with the people and in Barbados we have been witnessing a diminishing number engaged in the electoral process and other facets of our so-called democracy? We have to be able to thread the ideal with the pragmatic. This is the discussion we need to have. There is a gap!

  13. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ David January 17, 2016 at 8:56 AM
    “If we accept the issue of going a Republic is largely distilled through a political lens then there is merit to the argument that many will not make a decision based on a rational thinking.”

    So how else should “Going Republic” be seen other than through a political lens? Should it be seen through an economic lens? Then that is a no-brainer.

    But you might just be on to something there. If the majority of voters had made a decision based on rational thinking would they have reelected the current administration based on what occurred in its first term in office?

    Hindsight is 20/20 vision. Doesn’t the political class (both sides of the imaginary divide) make glaring irrational decisions regularly? So what if the people are possessed with similar flaws?
    Let the people decide. It’s their country and they have the inalienable right to decide on their form governance.


  14. The intellectual snobs are people like the Bush shites of this world whose views are wrapped around idealogies that take society backwards with a view that opposing for the sake of opposing is sign of divine intelligent only afforded to a few and not given to many. His critic sounds of pessimism reminds me of a victim who was in a comatose state for many years comes out years later and refused to be a part of modern society ,Leave it to bush shite society would still be using donkey and cart as modes of transportation based on an ideology that it is life saving and save the govt money .
    His mind is anti any thing progressive
    Oscar Wilde must have known bush tea very well


  15. @Miller

    We can’t have the cake and eat it too. As citizens we refuse to participate in the democracy its imperfections not withstanding and holler for a referendum.


  16. Too many so-called ‘leaders’ seem to be under the misguided impression that it is their role to ‘take the people to a place of their choosing’.
    VERY VERY FEW of these bowls have the moral, intellectual or righteous CAPACITY to take on such a role.
    Leaders (especially confirmed Brass Bowl jokers -as most are) are best advised to seek to build consensus, establish basic CORE values (like honesty, truth, justice, merit and ethics) while COLLECTIVELY moving the country towards a SHARED vision.

    Lonely, insecure jokers such we have been attracting are therefore totally unsuitable for the kind of leadership that we need……. As are self-important despots like Thompson and his pal Mia who see themselves as being destined to ‘RULE’ over us.

    Bushie tell wunna already…. Persons like Caswell, Walter, who can GIVE and TAKE; who do not feel ENTITLED; who are open to public communication; and who are committed to public service, are national treasures…. Treasures that we are allowing to sit idle while idiots run things…


  17. Let BU do a David Ellis with Bushie. There is a widely held view that our political class has not been attracting the best brains from the country. If we take this to a logical conclusion we have to holler murdaaah!

  18. Well Well & Consequences Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences

    The bottom line is politicians on the island, for reasons known only to themselve, still do not believe the people have a right to participate in any discussion that will affect them and their future generations.

    They deliberately take away that inalienable right of the people and only mouth off about “the people” when it suits their respective agendas. That is where they need to be brought into the 21st century, you cannot pretend the people don’t exist unless and until you need them….get with the program

  19. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ David January 17, 2016 at 9:39 AM

    According to your line of argument voting should then be made compulsory for all citizens over 18; just like education is for those under 16.
    Australia and other respected democracies in the โ€œBritishโ€ Commonwealth do have a similar system in place.

    Why not put such a system in place while going for full republic status? If not republicanism according to the popular definition would still be one big joke unless the people are โ€˜encouragedโ€™ by whatever legal and moral means to participate and to have full access information on which to base their political decisions.

    โ€œSimply put, it is a form of governance where supreme power resides in the people and is exercised through their elected representatives in accordance with law.โ€


  20. @Miller

    You are stabbing at what is a more important initiative we should be considering. Command all citizens to participate and in the process ensure we educate our citizens, completely. The Republican narrative is driven by th political on one side and the sentimental on the other – pragmatism has not made it to the discussion, yet.


  21. @David January 17, 2016 at 10:02 AM #

    Pragmatism has always bee the elephant in the room………On what basis do you think politicians operate?


  22. @Vincent

    Our party system has morphed to a point where politicians satisfy shadows with deep pockets and polls (read to be popular).


  23. David January 17, 2016 at 10:36 AM #

    …..and that is being pragmatic David,no ideology as shadows can change tomorrow and the populli could want something else tomorrow.


  24. @Vincent

    You have to anchor the discussion about being pragmatic to a politician is meant to serve the interest of the electorate.


  25. David January 17, 2016 at 10:44 AM #

    The electorate can be interpreted differently in order to suit the needs of a politician at any given point in time…….pragmatism at work.

  26. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar

    I can reply to a few observations only. My question has not been ereally answered as to which issues should be subject to referendum. You will notice that there is no provision at all for this in our Constitution. Is this acceptable to those who are now clamoring for it? And. If not, why no protest before now? Did you agree with every policy measure that preceded this one?

    Miller hints at an interesting thesis….that those matters that require a 2/3 majority should be sO subject..maybe, but if that majority of Parliament are in agreement, what is the need for a subsequent referendum saying about representative democracy?

    The proposal to make the manifesto a legally binding document is alluring, but for more reasons than one that is well nigh impossible as a matter of current law.

    Bushie, even if you were not so rich and old and busy as you claim to be ( I wonder which of these compels anonymity?), you would not fit well in my classes….you are far too settled in your opinions, too dyed-in-the-khaki to treat with most aspects of legal theory.

    David, an excellent point about the much bruited claim to popular sovereignty and the low voter turnouts at elections….seems that most are satisfied with the theoretical entitlement….few with practically exercising the right! This is akin to the treatment of freedom of expression on the blogs….is exercising that right under a pseudonym an effective exercise of it….Can such a right be exercised by an unidentifiable individual ….by a mere submission? How would it ever be possible to infringe that individual right without infringing the rights of all..? And in which forum could a claim for redress ever be made?

  27. Well Well & Consequences Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences

    Without adding all the bells and whistles, it’s simple, whether the people execise their rights to vote or not, no one, particularly politicians whom the people employ, have any right to take away their rights to be engaged and knowing about decisions made by leaders whether it has negative or positive impacts on the country and people, they have a right to know. The people who are not voting are not only fed up with the behavior, but cannot see them changing and i mean both parties, anytime soon. Maybe saying it enough times it will sink into hard heads.

    I am not hiring someone to do a job for me, have to pay them, then later read in newspapers or hear from another country that they did something while never bothering to tell me and then they are keeping their actions secret and only tell certain people, not even born in the island, or run off to a completely different country to tell everyone there, whom their actions do not impact, neither do they care. Who does that, better still, which educated population tolerates that behavior from leaders..

  28. Well Well & Consequences Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences

    The problem with equating anything to people’s valid concerns is that some, I am saying this only because I know, are chomping at the bit to identify themselves on the blogs but in doing so is also willing to expose some very sensitive information that could see it all brought down., if they do not see changes in how those who lead operate with the people, the leaders do not inspire confidence, bottom line….then what….what will the argument be, it certainly will not hold any water, that’s for sure. And as I said, only people living in Barbados are hesitant to expose everything, people who live outside have no such problem.

  29. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar

    You point is made, WW&C,but precisely what do we subject to a referendum? Everything?

  30. Well Well & Consequences Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences

    Jeff….if a referendum is not palatable to some, a simple town hall meeting with transparency am sure would be welcome. People on the island as a rule do not demand much.


  31. Are we not missing a key point here? Let us concede many Barbadians do not vote for whatever reason. However, the change to Republic status is important enough to merit giving Barbadians a voice in the decision.


  32. Jeff Cumberbatch January 17, 2016 at 11:45 AM #

    Again let me suggest that we revise our constitution based on the various studies carried out,the most recent being Forde’s&Marshall if memory serves.

    We then submit this revised document as the referendum which will have a change to republic status to the populi,with who as you have said lies the final decision.


  33. LOL @ Jeff
    Are you not a bit over preoccupied with Bushie’s identity?
    It is truly of little import ..and the bushman has already advised that the intent is to encourage all and sundry to cuss Bushie’s ideas and comments freely… as is Sargeant’s wont…:)

    As to fitting into your class… You are correct,
    BUT…
    How do you know for sure that YOU are not a product of one of Bushie’s classes….?
    ..or is it such a possibility that bothers you? ha ha ha

    Let us focus on the ideas and concepts…
    Your position that this matter is ‘too complex’ to be put to simple people is flawed.
    If Froon and company are able to even discuss republicanism, then 95% of Bajans would likely have an equal or better grasp of the matter. It is disingenuous to presume mass ignorance without even an attempt at mass education….

    What the hell is CBC there for…?
    …just for illiterate DJs to push Jamaican music and fetes..?


  34. …talking about illiterate DJ…. a public service announcement this morning on a popular station…

    “A passport belonging to Mr Joseph H Doe of Waterless Village st Joseph has been found and may be collected at District A police Station.
    Bring identification when collecting same… ”

    LOL ha ha ha
    Will you accept a passport sir…?

  35. Well Well & Consequences Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences

    Lol…All fun aside, the politicians need to step off those high, high pedestals they build for themselves, aftrt being elected and engage their pay masters, the people, about everything and as often as possible…….they are out of touch.

    Ask anyone, except yardfowls, on the island about politicians, outside of their work setting and the reaction is “STEUPSS”. That does not sound like love to me.


  36. @Bushie
    Are you not a bit over preoccupied with Bushieโ€™s identity?
    It is truly of little import ..and the bushman has already advised that the intent is to encourage all and sundry to cuss Bushieโ€™s ideas and comments freelyโ€ฆ as is Sargeantโ€™s wontโ€ฆ:)
    ++++++++++
    Somebody got to stand up and sound the alarm when they hear or read shite and my pioneer status ๐Ÿ™‚ ๏Š here allows me to do just that.

    BTW I was reading some old post yuh know de ones before โ€œJโ€ became โ€œSSโ€ and I saw that your gravatar was a photo of a sad looking pup which seems to have gone the route of โ€œBush Tea at Largeโ€ or was just a reminder that at heart you are not the pit bull you want people to believe that you are.

  37. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    Indeed, Vincent, but how do I vote if I disagree with one only of the proposals? The troublesome thing about referendums, as Ralphie found out in SVG, is that more questions, or parts of a question the more complicated the isue becomes.


  38. LOL @ Sargeant
    Touchรฉ!!
    Just name your weapons… ๐Ÿ™‚

    Re those old posts…
    Bushie has a way of delving into things (including such as blogs and Gravatars) so as to fully understand the picture from all sides …BEFORE diving in….

    LOL
    …an old habit.


  39. Jeff Cumberbatch January 17, 2016 at 3:11 PM #

    My thinking is that each change will be a stand alone,everything garnering in excess of 60% of the vote will form the new constitution and anything under that,the status quo will remain.The percentage can be adjusted either way.

    We will never please everybody but as you know about the wishes of the majority and the protection of the minority must remain in place.

  40. are-we-there-yet Avatar
    are-we-there-yet

    Jeff;

    My understanding from your 2 articles and from the discussion so far on BU is that Barbados is already a de Facto Republic if not a de Jure one and therefore the change to a true Republican status is really one that might be of genuine bread and butter importance only to some persons with an academic interest in what may be primarily an esoteric concept or to persons or institutions that might stand to gain in some way from the projected change.

    As I also understand it, the Hon Prime Minister framed the idea of the New Republic in terms of cutting the last official ties to the Queen of England as our titular sovereign, no more or no less.

    The major question that therefore might need to be asked in a referendum is simply:-

    Should Barbados sever its ties with the British Monarchy? [ Yes ] [ No ].

    My understanding of your writing on this matter suggests that it might be your considered legal opinion that it is not necessary for a referendum to be held to justify the implementation of the type of Republican status that is apparently envisaged by Mr. Stuart.

    However, I suspect that there is a sizable body of opinion in Barbados that might consider that it is necessary that that view be put to the people as the matter transcends mere legalisms. Putting the question of removing the queen to the electorate in the manifestos of the competing parties might be the best way of getting some input in this matter but if there is an urgency to have that feedback before then I would suggest that, at the minimum, a tightly managed national survey be carried out with one question only being asked.

    Should a referendum be held to determine if Barbados should or should not become a de Jure Republic? [ Yes ] [ No ].

    Letting only the political class have a say in this question seems to me to be a prescription for unwonted future problems even if it might be within the law.

  41. Well Well & Consequences Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences

    Where does the constitutional law say that the political class does not have to interact with the electorate and tell them anything. Is there a dictatorship agreement or document no one knows about. I would love to see that law…..maybe Jeff can tell us about it.

    The leaders are representatives, when you have an attorney representing you, dont you ask questions, do you just let him do whatever he/she feels like, wrong approach. Your representative is supposed to keep you in the loop or they are not representing you, only themselves.

    Strange enough, in the first year Thompson was PM, every couple months he had a Q&A with the press, some said it seemed stage, who knows, but this lot he left behind believe themselves answerable to no one and would not even pretend to stage a Q&A.

  42. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    I respect your opinion, AWTY, but you will concede that there was no referendum to determine if we should have maintained ties with the British Monarchy in 1966. Is this the same issue now or not?


  43. A political party is elected to form a government and therefore govern. Whether it decides to use referenda to inform significant decisions is a judgement call and NOT a requirement.

  44. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    @WW&C,

    The alternative thesis is that rather than wait for your MP to tell you anything, he or she should be asked about it.The relationship of principal (constituent) and agent (MP) or entity (constituent) and representative (MP) makes it clear who is the boss!


  45. Jeff Cumberbatch January 17, 2016 at 7:57 PM #

    I am feeling a bit slighted when WW&C gets a response and my……..Vincent Haynes January 17, 2016 at 4:43 PM #…..is left hanging…….is it such an unworkable suggestion?


  46. @ Jeff, elections can also be non-democratic if the polls are rigged or votes bought.

  47. are-we-there-yet Avatar
    are-we-there-yet

    Jeff;
    Re. your 7:51 post.

    Yes! There was no referendum okaying our political servants to pursue independence on our behalf; and yes, the issue was infinitesimally more weightier. But that was 49 years ago and we are now a much better educated society and presumably now capable of taking on some of the responsibility of being engaged in such weighty matters and not leave everything up to our political servants.


  48. @Are-we-there-yet

    If we are so much more educated today why do we not insist on more actively participating in our democracy?

  49. are-we-there-yet Avatar
    are-we-there-yet

    David @ 9:27 pm;

    Ask that question of Bushtea. I think he might give you an answer involving Brass bowlery.


  50. Any clues as to who will be the President of the Republic? Are you inviting the Royal visitor to give him the GG’s chair to take back to his mother? This is how Frome behaves. I want to know if being a republic will force those who travel to need all sorts of visas for the countries they will travel eg Europe and Asia Canada

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