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Jeff Cumberbatch - New Chairman of the FTC
Jeff Cumberbatch – New Chairman of the FTC

As the excesses of the Christmas Day just past recede in the national consciousness, we prepare this week to welcome in 2016. At the close of this year, there seems to be a popular consensus that the local economy is on the up, although this assertion remains unsupported on most occasions by any evidence, persuasive or at all.

I suppose a healthy optimism is in itself a Very Good Thing, although the more cautious among us would wish for more authoritative empirical proof of this most fortunate event.

In this, the final column for 2015, I propose to touch on some matters across the region, fully cognizant of the risk that I may be accused by some of the citizens of those states of interference in their national affairs. That is, of course, provided they disagree with my views, as the Ambassador of the European Union would have discovered recently when he dared to offer an opinion on corporal punishment that differed radically from the antediluvian views of some locals who will not be swayed one jot or tittle from their simplistic and fundamentalist literalism that the โ€œrodโ€ in Proverbs 13:34 sounds too much like the โ€œtambrinโ€ (tamarind) rod, a favoured instrument for the parental infliction of pain in my youth, to mean anything else.

Clearly, the Ambassadorโ€™s opinion would be considered interference only because it conflicts with theirs; readers will recall that there was no such allegation against former UN Secretary General Kofi Annan when he cryptically, but supposedly flatteringly, claimed that Barbados punched above its weight in international fora.

It might have ever been thus. Chafed at criticism of the policy of racial segregation operative in Alabama some years ago, the then Governor George Wallace is reported to have said, โ€œWe shall continue to maintain segregation in Alabama completely and absolutely without violence or ill-willโ€ฆWe ask for patience and tolerance and make an earnest request that we be allowed to handle state and local affairs without outside interferenceโ€ฆโ€ The patent distinction here, of course, is that the Governor was far more gracious in his disagreement than the locals.

In any event, the accusation of external interference leveled at Mr. seems particularly misplaced given the context in which His Excellency spoke. As I have been urging for some time, the issue of state sovereignty should scarcely arise in a circumstance where the critical issue is compliance with the provisions of a voluntarily ratified international treaty, unless the accusers are prepared to argue that we possess the geopolitical clout to be international floutlaws of sacred global pacts. I am almost certain that this is not what Mr. Annan meant by โ€œpunching above our weightโ€.

When is a year nine months only?

I was intrigued by a report in the Barbados Advocate on Tuesday last week that Justice Errol Thomas of the Dominica High Court had called on prison authorities to stop what he called โ€œthe unlawful practice of reducing prison sentences without the authority of the courtโ€. It may be widely known that the prison year is commonly thought of as a period of nine, instead of the calendar twelve, months.

In response to the assertion of the Superintendent of Prisons that โ€œon arrival at the prison, the convicted person is given a one-third reduction to the sentence that is re-imposed only for misbehaviour during his time thereโ€, the learned judge posited, โ€œThe only person authorized to reduce a sentence is the judge. No prison judge or officer has the right to reduce any sentence as soon as a prisoner enters the prisonโ€ฆitโ€™s unlawfulโ€ฆthat cannot be right…You are undermining the judgment of the courtโ€ฆโ€ The Superintendentโ€™s appeal to custom and practice โ€“โ€œitโ€™s been happening for 31 years โ€ฆif itโ€™s a bad practice, it [has been] bad long timeโ€ฆโ€ availed nothing. Thomas J reiterated his point about its unlawfulness.

I am not aware whether the matter has as yet been satisfactorily resolved in Dominica, but it is a nice point. I also do not know whether the identical position obtains there, but in Barbados the Prison Rules 1974, made under the Prisons Act, Cap 168, provides for the lawfulness of this procedure. According to rule 41, where relevant, โ€œโ€ฆarrangements shall be made by which a prisoner who is serving a sentence of imprisonment whether by one sentence or by consecutive sentences, for a period exceeding one monthโ€ฆ may by good conduct and industry become eligible for discharge when a portion of his sentence not exceeding one-fourth of the whole sentence has yet to runโ€ฆโ€

There would thus seem to be some lacunae in the popular thought. First, the sentence does not appear to be commuted, as the Dominican prison official claimed, โ€œupon arrival at the prisonsโ€, but rather it appears that a decision has to be made, at the time when at least three-quarters of the sentence has been served, as to whether the remaining period should be commuted or not. This is dependent upon โ€œgood conduct and industryโ€ having been exhibited by the prisoner during his sojourn there.

Further, contrary to the view of the learned judge that it undermines the judgment of the court, it seems rather to be a matter of constitutional jurisdiction. While the court sentences the convicted person to a period on imprisonment; the prison authorities are empowered to determine the precise extent of that period. The current arrangement would appear to contemplate an inbuilt remission of sentence, although this is conditional on the prisonerโ€™s good behaviour and industry.

Where a similar statute applies, and the sentencing court feels strongly enough about the issue, the necessary mathematical calculation will have to be effected by the judicial officer. Since one prison year may eventually be nine (9) months, then, in order to ensure a convicted person actually serves a total of five (5) years, the formally imposed sentence should be at least seven (7) years. Interesting!

Who is entitled to the Myrie benefits?

Recent reports about the substantial fiscal benefits realized by those regional jurisdictions that grant citizenship to foreign nationals (and their immediate families) who are prepared to invest handsome sums into their economies have caused me to wonder whether the decision to do so should not have been a collective CARICOM decision, given the legal implications for the other jurisdictions in that regional grouping that do not offer this entitlement on similar terms.

My musing is based on the fact that the Revised Treaty of Chaguaramas, at Article 32 (5), provides that โ€œa person shall be regarded as a national of a Member State if such person (i) is a citizen of that Stateโ€ฆโ€

And in its judgment in 2013 in the case brought by Shanique Myrie against Barbados, the Caribbean Court of Justice asserted that both the rights of establishment and of the provision of services โ€œpresume of necessity the right of movement of Community nationals without being obstructed by unreasonable restrictionsโ€ and that โ€œan essential element of the right of free movement is the entry and stay of a Community national in another Member State hassle free, that is to say, without harassment or the imposition of impedimentsโ€ฆโ€ (My emphasis)

Since the economic citizen and his family would become citizens under the Revised Treaty, they should logically be entitled to those rights aforementioned on entry into any other Member State.

I note that Article 32 also provides that โ€œthe competent Organ shall establish basic criteria for Member States in order to safeguard against manipulation or abuse of such rights so as to gain an unfair advantage against other Member Statesโ€ฆin the area of nationality criteriaโ€ฆโ€ However, I have serious doubts as to whether this adequately covers the point that I am making here.

It would appear that by permitting or suffering certain states to create citizens through other than the ordinarily accepted means, the other CARICOM members may have unwittingly enlarged their treaty responsibilities in terms of entry of persons into their countries. Intriguing!

To you dear reader, a blessed, thoughtful, healthful and prosperous 2016.


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317 responses to “The Jeff Cumberbatch Column – Yuletide Musings”


  1. The following article is relevant and ties in nicely to the point made by Jeff regarding the collective obligation of Caricom under the Revised Treaty of Chaguaramas.

    It was either a move of extraordinary cunning, or fortuitous in the extreme.

    Within months of receiving a demand from his ex-wife for a share of his ยฃ4billion fortune, Saudi tycoon Sheik Walid Juffali joined the obscure International Maritime Organisation as representative of the Caribbean island of St Lucia โ€“ gaining diplomatic immunity from any legal action in Britain.

    It meant, of course, that his fortune was safe from his wife of 14 years, former calendar model Christina Estrada.

    But now, the British Government has taken the highly unusual step of intervening on her behalf.

    A senior British official has written to the St Lucian government demanding that the immunity be waived so London-based Ms Estrada can seek a divorce settlement.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3374979/Now-hand-cut-4billion-Foreign-Office-wades-UK-s-biggest-divorce-case-sheik-forced-listen-model-wife-s-demand.html#ixzz3vWCLhkHx


  2. Here is an extract from the Daily Mail article that raises the issue of transparency (or lack of) how we govern.

    The IMO appointment was never publicly announced by the St Lucia government and there is no record of Mr Juffali attending any meetings of the IMO in the 20 months since his appointment, including the organisation’s biennial two-week summit meeting in London this month.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3374979/Now-hand-cut-4billion-Foreign-Office-wades-UK-s-biggest-divorce-case-sheik-forced-listen-model-wife-s-demand.html#ixzz3vWGOHE5S

  3. Well Well & Consequences2 Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences2

    What a woderu read this morning, a gift. .lol

    The St Lucia government should be seriously penalized for their dirty under hand complicity with this corrupt arab dude and hiding information from their taxpayers, once again colluding to roba mother and daughter of their rightful settlement. Just imagine what females on the island have to endure at the hands of these greedy, piggish males with a little island power. They have no shame with their wicked minds.

    “The IMO appointment was never publicly announced by the St Lucia government and there is no record of Mr Juffali attending any meetings of the IMO in the 20 months…”

    This Arab dude will now drop them for their uselessness, but am sure the bribe has already bรจen paid. Small island creeps.

  4. Caswell Franklyn Avatar

    Jeff

    I am at one with the ambassador about the need to do away with corporal punishment. I am also at one with Matthew Farley when he suggested that how we do things here is none of the ambassador’s business. Who the hell he thinks he is that he can come to this little black country and dictate to us? He is very much out of place whether his views coincide with mine or not. Next he would want to say that the Government is a disaster, even though that is true, that too would not be his place. Where will he be prepared to stop? I see that they have already framed messing around in faeces as a human right and have been pushing that agenda. I would seem that the success of that initiative has embolden these clowns from overseas.


  5. @Caswell

    The Ambassador is married to a Black Caribbean woman, he has a right to speak. Besides we have no problem accepting grant money.


  6. @Jeff, I don’t think it is as ‘…simplistic and fundamentalists literalism…’ as you say!

    Children and the Rod of Correction

    by Dave Miller, Ph.D.

    American civilization has undergone tremendous social shifting in the last fifty years in virtually every facet of its culture. This transformation is evident, for example, in the area of the family and parental discipline. From the beginning of this nation, most Americans have believed in the value of corporal punishment. This discipline has included spanking the child using a variety of instruments, including a โ€œswitch,โ€ paddle, razor strap, yardstick, belt, or hand. The last generation to have experienced this approach to parenting on a wide scale was the World War II generation. Due to the adverse influence of social liberals and alleged โ€œspecialistsโ€ in human behavior and child psychology, the thinking of many Americans has now been transformed to the extent that corporal punishment has come to be viewed as โ€œchild abuseโ€โ€”even by the judiciary.

    Make no mistake: genuine child abuse is taking place every day in America. Some parents are burning, torturing, and even killing their children. However, the abuse of a good thing is no argument against its legitimate and judicious use. Extreme behavior often elicits an extreme reaction. We must not โ€œthrow out the baby with the bathwater.โ€ Regardless of the superficial appeal of the arguments that are marshaled against spanking, those who recognize that the Bible is the inspired Word of God are more concerned with biblical insight regarding the matter. Does the Bible advocate or sanction the spanking of children?

    THE BIBLEโ€™S VIEWPOINT

    Several verses refer explicitly to the use of corporal punishment in the rearing of children. The longstanding quip, โ€œSpare the rod and spoil the child,โ€ is undoubtedly a paraphrase of Solomonโ€™s words: โ€œHe who spares his rod hates his son, but he who loves him disciplines him promptlyโ€ (Proverbs 13:24). This motif is repeated throughout Proverbs. For example, Solomon asserted โ€œfoolishness is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of correction will drive it far from himโ€ (22:15). This one statement is packed with meaning that merits deep and prolonged meditation and analysis. Most modern adolescent psychologists have not even begun to plumb its depths, let alone agree with it.

    Lest someone get the idea that Solomon used the term โ€œrodโ€ figuratively, without intending to leave the impression that parents should actually strike their children with a rod, he clarified the target: โ€œDo not withhold correction from a child, for if you beat him with a rod, he will not die. You shall beat him with a rod, and deliver his soul from hellโ€ (23:13-14). A proper balance is obviously needed between verbal reproof/encouragement on the one hand, and the application of corporal punishment on the other, as seen in the following words: โ€œThe rod and reproof give wisdom, but a child left to himself brings shame to his mother. Correct your son, and he will give you rest; yes, he will give delight to your soulโ€ (29:15,17, emp. added). The immense importance of the interplay between positive instruction, encouragement, and nurturing, in conjunction with appropriate physical punishment, cannot be overestimated nor successfully discounted. http://www.apologeticspress.org

  7. Caswell Franklyn Avatar

    David

    I don’t care if he is married to Mia; his status as an ambassador precludes him from commenting on local matters, unless of course he was directed by the EU. He is bloody well out of place and I am not putting my tail between my legs and running away just because some white, in his mind superior, from Europe has spoken.

    Sent from my iPad

    >


  8. Very interesting observations which intrigues and some what boggles the mind as to how laws at times can be at odds with its greatest intentions which give rise to various legal interpretations depending to whose advantage it might be of benefit ,
    The article attempts to focus on the roots causes of legal maneuvering that can glide to interrupt those changes necessary for the better


  9. The Ambassador’s obvious interference with ‘our’ internal affairs, is no mistake on his part, however offensive and out of place we find him to be.

    He is acutely aware by virtue of his delegated position, and well versed on ‘The One World Government’, The New World Order, and is therefore exercising that protocol’s language, as it is well under way world wide!


  10. @ David
    What the ambassador should be commenting about is Caribbean Export where they have been depositing tons of money without any apparent oversight, and have created yet another den of bribery, thievery and misappropriation….
    He need to explain also about the whistleblower who reported brass bowlery to him ….and lost his job as a result.

    @ Jeff
    You REALLY need to drop this shiite talk about corporal punishment now.
    Bushie has already advised you that there are MANY things that you do not yet understand….. and a wise man defers making definitive pronouncements on things that he DO NOT fully grasp….
    There are MANY things which seem ‘right’ to brass bowls, but the end thereof is the way of death and damnation…

    Admittedly you are consistent in your ignorance.
    Bushie notes that you have accepted ZERO responsibility for the embarrassing, well-documented, and now ‘out-of-control’, complete lack of ethics, honesty, patriotism, and professionalism of those FORMER STUDENTS of yours who have gone on to make up the legal framework of this country….. this by your recent comment that ‘they go on to other places of learning after leaving you…’

    Perhaps if you understood the VALUE of strong disciplinary standards – with meaningful penalties – being applied to young legal students THEN you would come to appreciate the point of bending a tree when it is young so that you can direct the path of its growth.

    How many of your students have you failed for poor ethics in year 1? /year 2?
    How many have you forced to redo a year because they were KNOWN cheaters?
    How many were failed because there were CLEARLY piss poor material?

    …..of course you don’t believe in that shiite, so you just pass them on to the Law School and hope that somehow, after four years of being allowed to do shiite without any serious penalties, they will somehow change in Trickidad (ha ha ha ) and go on to be honest, well respected lawyers in Barbados…
    Right?

    Boss..
    Just say that you don’t UNDERSTAND the dynamics of corporal punishment ..and that YOU personally don’t like it….
    Understand that this is about YOUR shortcomings and your inability to comprehend complex sociological interactions and their macro consequences…

    The Ambassador is just a distraction….


  11. @ Zoe

    Your contribution is a whole set of shiite.

    Throughout history, slaves or people in bondage were severely beaten to scare them into remaining in servitude. The so called Christians beat slaves and quoted scriptures to justify punishment.

    Take Exodus 21: 20 to 21:

    โ€œ20: Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21: but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.โ€

    You seem completely comfortable with the concept of beating your slaves or children, as long as you don’t kill them.

    Exodus Chapter 21, verse 32; Leviticus Chapter 22, verse 10; and Leviticus Chapter 25, verse 44; gave certain instructions pertaining to the treatment of slaves.

    Since you are always โ€œpasting and quotingโ€ references from someone who wrote articles/books in favour of some practice in the Bible as your justification for mankind to adhere to these practices, even if they are barbaric, then surely you would not have any problem with slavery since GOD gave instructions about it in the Bible.

    If you are supporting Proverbs 13:14, then you will have no problem in supporting slavery or anyone beating their slaves, โ€œsince the slave is their property.โ€

    On the other hand, you cannot agree that slavery was abolished by law, but do not want corporal punishment administered to children to be abolished by law as well.


  12. Hard pressed to understand how as a society and proclaimed intellectual beings how on God green earth any one can support the use of archaic and medieval punishment being administered to a defenseless child whip! lashed! or beaten at the hands of an adult
    Why does a society continues to cling to these so called destructive and inhumane practices is beyond comprehension
    Whether one agrees or disagree with the interference / criticism is not really the gist and the heart of the issue of what the Ambassador is pointing out but as society grows with intelligence through knoweldge it must also provide a foundation base on moral laws and practices reflective of human practices
    The criticism coming from the proponents of who or what was said is another covering thrown over a big open sore of inhumane practices in society that needs to be fix that the proponents rather refused( to) with boastful stubbornness holding on to with radical steadfastness with no room for compromise
    it might be seemingly plausible and a constitutional right for the proponents of corporal punishment to crawl out of the wood work and pounced on the ambassador words . However what was said is a Truth with a plausible statement of caution that also indicates a soft or kind word turns away wrath
    A necessary tool that when becomes planted in the mind beginning at early childhood secures a moral foundation for positive changed through out society .


  13. Does it not seem a lot hypocritical that the Christian Right would boast full knoweldge of what the Bible says about morals . but diverts or looks in the opposition direction when the true test of morals is present by immoral actions in a society driven by outdated laws and perceptions .
    How can corporal punishment be a moral right or duty when the bible it self lays out in its ten commandments based on a universal law defined by Honor and basic guidelines for humanity,


  14. Before the discussion goes down the one way route of Christians this and that should we not consider the weight we place on corporal punishment and compare how we relegate emotional /verbal/ domestic abuse issues? Is one more important than the other?

  15. pieceuhderockyeahright Avatar
    pieceuhderockyeahright

    @ Jeff Cumberbatch

    A merry Christmas to you and yours and as I said to Well Well do not eat too much of the Ham (I told her turkey, she is in Canada) that it makes you slothful of body and lethargic of your normally staccato thoughts.

    It must be extremely interesting to see you joust in a court of law probably while in front of an equally challenging mind like that of Justice Chandler certainly not Kentish and assuredly not the former Registrar of Corporate Affairs that served as a Judge for a short while.

    Indeed a hell on earth if ever there was one. Thank the Lord that she was retired, sorry has retired.

    I am often amazed at the topics that you chose to write about!!

    They are much akin to the gatekeeper of a gate to an city of yore and a beggar seated at the gate of that city.

    The former conducts his duties with acts of pomp and regal authority choosing who passes in or out, as the DLP will soon pass out, but the beggar, devoid of such duty can tell you the channels in that gate, where there seems to be wood ants and termites and where the hinges seem to be rusted.

    You speak to the minutiae of diurnal import which, when left unattended, creep insidiously into the structure to destroy the very gate that the pompous gatekeeper is incapable of examining thus.

    Let me see if de old man can comprehend what you are saying and extrapolate in this way.

    (By the way Mr. Cumberbatch, you might not know this but Legion or should I say AC has told me that while I am in Murica I should try to buy a brain so I beg your forbearance because I have not been able to find any at Radio Shack or Circuit City)

    So with regard to the unilateral interpretation of the warden and their 3/4’s of the sentence rule, sorry practice.

    So say for example, two wardens at say Dodds, could unilaterally compute this diminution of sentence and, based on their interpretation of “โ€œgood conduct and industryโ€ having been exhibited by the prisoner during his sojourn there” heheheheheheh if you get my drift, decrease de inmate sentence and whaplax, jes so de accused murderer on remand is free???

    Now to your other presentment (heheheheheheh dat is not in de category of de big words dat you does use in fact i think it might be a catachresis, I using dat word a lot recently).

    You said and I quote “…wonder whether the decision to do so should not have been a collective CARICOM decision, given the legal implications for the other jurisdictions in that regional grouping that do not offer this entitlement on similar terms…”

    Now I is a man dat does constantly say dat I got nuffin but admiration fuh you, to whichin AC does say dat I brown nosing) but dis idea indeed showsdat you is a anarchist in trufe and I gine prove dat dis is so

    Looka how you gone and brek up CARICOM widout firing a bullet!! to whichin i feel dat it is de ham dat mek you thoughts slow down and let dem words bout pan Caribbean Economic citizenship come out uh you mouth…

    Imagine dis, dat at the next HoG meeting (dat mean Heads of Guvment, doah sum uh dem is real hogs in trufe, Ralphie ent no hog he does wear boxers, most uh de time, unlessing he talking to dem young tings, like Richard Sealy) dem gots to decide pun whu you propose heah!!

    SG Laroque and Ralphie Gonzales, and de rest uh dem, got to set de economic value upon which economic citizenship gine get granted across de member states!!

    Whuloss man, 1 from 15 leave zero according to Jeff Cumberbatch!!

    You see how you expose youself heah pun BU, fuh de whole uh de world to see dat you and Burnett is pallies?

    De Grandson mek de following song fuh you

    https://youtu.be/Kadk01fj_A0


  16. The bible clearly does give permission for the parent to be in charge while specifically attends to giving a reward for obedience demonstrated by the child to parent
    However does the bible give permission for a child to be bushwhacked at the hands of a parent
    Such brutality goes back to the days of the Israelis sojourn in Egypt when God saw the inhumanity dealt to the israealites releasing them of inhumane and cruel punishment ,
    Although or modern day form of corporal punishment might not rise to such a level there is still the nagging concern of proof that is reflective in a social conscience and behaviuor practices that lagging on to cruel and inhumane practices doing more harm than good
    My reason for the biblical example of the israleties brings to mind that God saw a moral necessity borne on the principle characteristics of a people divine humane right and those not guided by the people disobedience to serve or adhere to their masters practices or principles
    In today’s society the leftover of medieval principles still reigns supremely in many households who believes that the as masters or head of households their principles of slave master control is a divine right with principles deserving of reverenced servitude and no room for disobedience still yet guided by the back handed slap and rule of the rod


  17. ole man Pdyr bear my indulgence but there are No circuit City stores in Merica they all gone out of business ,,Radio Shack they are a few handful around Merica most of them close too .. yuh could asked your grandson to “giggle ” them fuh yuh yuh see why i told yuh to buy a bring the one yuh using hardened wid misinformation


  18. BU posted about this so many years ago. We are here now. Deal with it!

    Muslim may take Govt to court


  19. @ David,

    Ordinary Bajans should have the same rights as muslims so we should be allowed to wear a mask on our photo ID but the opening for the eyes should be the same as for muslims.


  20. @Art, You are ignorant regarding the CONTEXT, and historical OT era in which Exodus 21:20-21 is set.

    @David, Please grant me a dispensation of tolerance for this relatively long post; its just that this subject of Slavery in the Bible is grossly misunderstood, and needs to be put to rest, Thanking you kindly for your patience here.

    Bible Says Itโ€™s Okay to Beat Your Slave, As Long As They Donโ€™t Die? Exodus 21:20-21?

    June 9, 2013 by B. Page

    Does the Bible say it is okay to beat your slave, as long as they donโ€™t die? How could a loving God allow slavery, and not only slavery, but to beat your slaves with no punishment?

    This is a fantastic question. If there was ever a Bible verse taken out of context, it would have to be the verse in Exodus 21 regarding the beating of a slave. I think this has to be the skepticsโ€™ favorite verse in all of the Bible to mock and try to point the finger at God and say, โ€œAha, you are evil and here is the proof.โ€ In fact, Iโ€™d almost guarantee that this verse would show up on nearly every atheist or skeptic website.

    But does the argument hold water? Does the Bible really support the beating of a slave? Would God have His children, the Israelites, mistreat an innocent slave in such a cruel way? Letโ€™s see what Godโ€™s word says.

    Does the Bible Support Slavery?

    First, the Bible does record instances of slavery, but not in the cruel way in which we think of today. In todayโ€™s age, the idea of slavery conjures up images of a black man with whip marks on his back and bleeding blisters on his hands, working tirelessly day and night to please his ruthless white โ€œmaster.โ€ This is not the idea of slavery according to the scriptures. In the scriptures, slavery was not based on skin color. A Hebrew could even become a slave of a fellow Hebrew (Exodus 21:2).

    Instead, slavery was more like a form of indentured servitude, or like a live-in maid or butler. Some compare it to a social class, and with good reason: A person who was financially broke could become a โ€œslaveโ€ for a set period of time, and work to pay off debt, or to have guaranteed housing and care. This was actually a good thing, and it did wonders to keep the โ€œhomelessโ€ population under control. If you were broke, no problemโ€“just go be a servant for a while.

    Furthermore, slaves usually had a set limit of time they served. In Exodus 21, Hebrew slaves could work no longer than 6 years, and after that, had to be released from their contract for nothing. Some people actually became slaves forever (by choice), simply because they would have bonded with their โ€œmaster,โ€ and would have preferred to stay with them. They didnโ€™t want to be freed in some cases. In the following passage, the Bible gives instructions for such a case:

    But if the slave plainly says, โ€˜I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go free.โ€™ โ€ฆ

    -Exodus 21:5 (emphasis mine)

    Surely this verse proves that slavery was not an evil activity like how we think of the brutal slavery of African Americans in the United States. Rather, this type of slavery was different. They worked for you in exchange for bread, a roof, and the payments of their debts. They could walk away after 6 years if they wanted, but many probably stayed on as hired hands.

    The Bible also certainly instructed masters on how to behave in a Godly manner many times in the scripture. Here is just one:

    Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.

    -Colossians 4:1

    So it becomes clear that slavery in the Bible was not meant to be some cruel activity. Some liked it so much, they chose to stay with their โ€œmasters.โ€ They had it good enough to love it and stay by choice. Furthermore, some even shared in an inheritance when their ownerโ€™s passed away. That says a lot about the culture of the time.

    Iโ€™m not going to go into more detail at this time on everything the Bible has to say about slavery (Iโ€™ll save that for another article), but rather, let me shift my attention to a specific verse in Exodus regarding beating a slave that is controversial.

    Does the Bible Say Beating a Slave Is Okay?

    The following verse about beating a slave is found in Exodus:

    When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.

    -Exodus 21:20-21

    God Is Not Condoning Mistreating People, or Beating People

    At first glance, it would appear as if God is condoning the beating of the slave, but letโ€™s read this carefully.

    First, we see that this verse in no way CONDONES beating a slave. God doesnโ€™t command the Israelites to beat their slaves, and God surely doesnโ€™t want anyone to be harsh or mistreat slaves. Thatโ€™s not what the verse says at all, so pay close attention. Iโ€™ve already posted one verse above, but Iโ€™ll post a couple more to give you the sense of how God feels about it:

    Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.

    -Colossians 4:1

    And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

    -Ephesians 6:9

    The verses above, taken from the New Testament, show us how God expects those with slaves under their care to act. They are to be fair and treat them right, and not be harsh with them. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8).

    Next, we must also remember that this very law came after God delivered the Israelites from harsh slavery. Here is what God had to say about that:

    And now the cry of the Israelites has reached me, and I have seen the way the Egyptians are oppressing them. Come now therefore, and I will send you to Pharaoh, that you may bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt.

    -Exodus 3:9-10 (emphasis mine)

    You shall not wrong a sojourner, or oppress him, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt.

    -Exodus 22:21

    God is so against the oppressive form of slavery, that He delivered the Israelites from it in Egypt. In Egypt, the Israelites toiled long and hard, usually 7 days a week making bricks and completing Egyptian hard labor. Needless to say, God is against abusing peopleโ€“slave or free. And Iโ€™d have to post almost the entire Bible to show even more of how God wants us to treat people: โ€œLove they enemy,โ€ โ€œDo good to those who persecute you,โ€ etc.

    The verse nowhere approves of hitting people or abusing them, but rather, the ENTIRE Bible is consistent on how we should treat people. Any skeptic who tries to isolate this verse to โ€œproveโ€ that God condones beating a slave just reveals their own sheer desperation. The Israelites who had slaves would have known Godโ€™s holy laws, and they knew better than to mistreat people.

    God Is Instructing What Penalties Should Take Place After the Fact

    What is really going on in this chapter is that God is giving penalties based on certain crimes. God isnโ€™t saying whether or not the action is moralโ€“itโ€™s already understood that it is not. From the context of the chapter, itโ€™s clear these are all immoral activities (striking your parents, killing people, etc.).

    So donโ€™t get confused and think God accepts beating your slave. This section is not making statements as to the moral nature of the crime, but rather, what the punishment should be for such a crime.

    It is similar to our laws of today, where we may have law books that state the punishment for various crimes (ie, domestic abuse is XX days in prison and a XX fine; or murder in the 1st degree is death penalty).

    So what happens if a master hits a slave, and he dies? Or what if he is injured, and doesnโ€™t die? The law addressed the penalty in this verse:

    When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.

    -Exodus 21:20-21

    In other words, if a master was to get in an argument or mistreat his slave by striking him, and the slave died, he must be put to death. If the slave survived a day or two, he would not.

    Why Would the Master Not Be Put To Death If the Slave Survived?

    If the slave died, the master would be put to death, but not if the slave survived (or, at least for a few days). Why? First, if the slave survived, it shows the masterโ€™s intent was not to kill or seriously harm the slave. Maybe they just got into a physical argument. Or maybe the master had to defend himself. Either way, it was a simple case of domestic violence, not pre-meditated murder. There is a big difference between those two.

    Next, the Bible clears up the meaning when it says this, โ€œhe is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.โ€

    What does that mean? That slaves are cheap property and worthless? No, not at all. The Bible makes clear that we are all of tremendous value to God our Father, whether we are lowly slaves or wealthy kings:

    There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

    -Galations 3:28

    In fact, God delights in using those who are poor, weak, and so forth. He loves all of His children.

    The text isnโ€™t saying slaves are worthless property. What the text is saying is this: He was under contract to the master (his โ€œemployerโ€), and as such, had a financial obligation to him. Therefore, the master will owe nothing.

    Hereโ€™s a way to illustrate it in more modern times to help you understand. Letโ€™s suppose someone owes me a business debt of $200,000. They canโ€™t pay, and I offer that they can work for me exclusively (ie, be my slave under contract), and live with me and tend to my property. At the end of 6 years, they are free to leave and do what they want. Their debt will be paid at that time. They agree.

    Well, one day, the worker I hired (โ€œthe slaveโ€), gets into a fight with me. I reach over and whack him over the head with a baseball bat in the heat of the argument. If he died, Iโ€™d be put to death for murder. But letโ€™s say he lives. So he goes to the hospital, but he survives. Then, we must appear in court over the incident.

    In court, the judge looks at his medical bills, pain, and his suffering. The judge then orders that I pay $200,000 to cover such expenses (โ€œthe penaltyโ€). I then point out that I had purchased his labor for this very price (in the form of indentured servitude labor). So the judge says, okay, you pay nothing then. You should pay him $200,000, but since the slave owes you money ($200,000, your compensation for that debt), you donโ€™t owe anything. Itโ€™s a wash.

    Other Details to Keep In Mind About This Verse

    As I said before, this verse is merely laying out punishments for crimes. It isnโ€™t saying the crime is okay, but just stipulating the punishments if they happen. You have to keep in mind that the Israelites had just been freed from Egypt. They were wandering around in the desert on their journey to the promised land. They had no fancy prisons. They had no electric chairs. They had no autopsy reports to go by. They didnโ€™t even have water on most days.

    So if someone did something wrong, they had 3 options: They could be fined and have to pay financial compensation to the injured party, they could be flogged by the โ€œcourtsโ€ for a wrong (which was sometimes used), or they could be killed (death penalty). Those were basically their only options. In this text, a master would be killed for pre-meditated murder of his servant, but he would not be killed if he or she survived. In this case, the master would not have to pay compensation, since the servant already had a debt owed to the master. The debts would โ€œcancel one anotherโ€ so to speak.

    Now, the text makes no mention of what else may happen. Why? Obviously, the judges in Israel would have to identify the details of each unique instance that something like this occurred. The law itself was a general guide to go by. They still had the freedom of judging each case individually.

    Iโ€™m sure if there was a case of brutal beatings of a slave, that slave would have the option of leaving. The text doesnโ€™t go into any further detail at this point, but look what the Bible says just a few verses later:

    When a man strikes the eye of his slave, male or female, and destroys it, he shall let the slave go free because of his eye. If he knocks out the tooth of his slave, male or female, he shall let the slave go free because of his tooth.

    -Exodus 21:26-27

    So now we can see that God does not tolerate abuse towards a slave, and even lets them free over a tooth or eye injury. This verse should clear up any doubt as to how the judges over Israel would have handled the situation. Slaves were NOT to be beaten, mistreated, or killed.

    Conclusion: The Bible Does Not Condone Abusive Slavery

    Given the above scriptures and points, this entire article can be summarized below:

    While the Bible did support slavery, it was not cruel or brutal slavery we know of today. Godโ€™s word instructs, time and time again, on the fair treatment of slaves, being kind to people, loving your enemy, and more.

    Youโ€™d have to be ignorant to argue that God condones beating or mistreating people in a cruel way. In fact, God led Moses to free the Israelites because they were being mistreated as slaves!

    Slaves had rights, were allowed to leave after 6 years, and many of them even loved their masters, and preferred to stay with them. This is the culture you should keep in mind. It isnโ€™t much different than working for a wonderful family as a live-in maid or servant in todayโ€™s time. Many slaves ended up more prosperous than non-slaves.

    The Bible NEVER condones beating a slave, hitting a slave, and never suggests to treat them in a cruel way. The verse in question is dealing with the penalty of such activity, not condoning it or making moral statements about it. Much like how we have laws against rape, domestic violence, and the penalties for such crimes. The chapter itself implies that the activity is wrong within its own context.

    The penalty for beating a slave was death if the slave died. If the slave survived, then there was no penalty, simply because the financial debts basically cancelled each other out.

    There you have it. Once again, Godโ€™s holy word stands rock solid against the lies and manipulations of skeptics. Please donโ€™t ever forget what I am about to say: There are 2 types of skeptics: Honest ones and dishonest one.

    An honest skeptic isnโ€™t sure, but is willing to objectively investigate a matter. When given a logical or rational reasoning, he or she accepts it. A dishonest skeptic doesnโ€™t want to know the truth. He doesnโ€™t want to read an answer, except maybe to mock and scoff some more.

    Sadly, far too many dishonest skeptics exist. Many have toiled away for hours and hours building websites to try to mock and blaspheme a Holy God. They hate God. Their point isnโ€™t to find the truth of the matter, but to get as many jabs in on Christianity as they can.

    I hope this article has helped you to understand that Godโ€™s word can be trusted. I take Godโ€™s word by faith to be literally true from cover to cover. It is rock-solid, and has stood the most intense scrutiny over time. http://www.revelation.com


  21. @Caswell Franklyn December 27, 2015 at 7:59 AM “I see that they have already framed messing around in faeces as a human right and have been pushing that agenda.”

    Dear Caswell: Are you homophobic? If so why?


  22. If a male homosexual should not have relations with another male homosexual, whom should he have relations with then?

    Your daughter?


  23. You eva practice abstinence?

    You appreciate how hard abstinence is?


  24. @ Jeff Cumberbatch,

    The only nugget that I could gleam from this lengthy and overarching article was the reference made to cash for citizenship.

    An investment of one hundred to four hundred thousand dollars (ref: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Caribbean-nations-wooing-Indian-immigrants-with-attractive-citizenship-for-cash-offers/articleshow/21754345.cms) can in no way be described as a โ€œhandsome sumโ€ in order to acquire citizenship.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but within Caricom we have at least three countries St Kitts & Nevis, Dominica and Antigua and Barbuda who have in place a citizenship-by-investment (CIP) program. How is it possible for a Caricom nation to unilaterally introduce such a scheme without such an agreement been ratified by all Caricom members?

    The CIP program can only work for our region if rigorous measurements are put in place that protects the sovereignty of existing Caribbean citizens. The CIP programme is very popular as it is inexpensive and it allows those who take advantage of it to travel freely to a larger number of countries which would not have been possible pre the introduction of the CIP programme.

    The Middle East is in turmoil; Indian and China in spite of their wealth remain countries where individuals and families would prefer to leave. If given the choice most of these groups would prefer to live in North America or Europe. Understandably some of these individuals are looking for safe bolt-holes in the event of a major crisis occurring in their country. However they may well exercise their rights to reside in the Caribbean should they so desire? Then what?

    Caricom must draw up an agreement with the three aforementioned countries which would ban those CIP citizens the right to enter those Caribbean countries that have not entered into this agreement.

    I fail to understand why we in the Caribbean seem intent on devaluing our worth. We would be infinitely better of circling the wagons rather than ceding even more of our territory and independence to outsiders who see our region purely as a means to an end to be trodden over and abused.


  25. @Hants December 27, 2015 at 10:41 AM “Ordinary Bajans should have the same rights as muslims so we should be allowed to wear a mask on our photo ID but the opening for the eyes should be the same as for muslims.”

    There is NOTHING in the Koran that says that a woman must cover her face.

    NOTHING.

    Face covering is simply a cultural practice.

    No government in its right mind should issue ID unless the applicant is willing to expose their face from forehead to chin and from ear to ear.

    And on the same passport/ID note why does the government of Barbados (or its clerical staff who issue ID’s and passports) insist that applicants cannot wear “arm hole” blouses or dresses?

    Since in this hot climate most people routinely wear sleeveless garments why the fuss about “arm-holes”?


  26. When I was a child my “punishment” when needed was having to stay inside for an hour while my friends played outside.

    My mother did not believe in beating children and neither do I.

    Growing up in Barbados I heard neighbor’s children “getting licks”. They used to scream and cry after being beaten with various “materials”.

    What you call corporal punishment in Barbados is abuse. Unlike the EU guy I am a Bajan so I will comment on anything I like.


  27. Wow! My first look at BU for the morning and, boy, has the family been busy. I have time only to respond to a few.

    @ Caswell, I do not understand your point that the Ambassador should not be able to speak on the affairs of a black country because he is a white European, Were we then out of place to have commented in international fora about apartheid in South Africa, the Holocaust or even the segregation policies in the Southern United States in the early sixties? As the quotation from George Wallace shows, cries of outside interference are the last refuge of the scoundrel! And he is commenting on our scofflawry of an international obligation. Are we to be judge and jury of that too?

    @ Zoe, I am not surprised that you were able to cut and paste an extract from a biblical “scholar” to justify corporal punishment. Equally you could have found one to justify apartheid, segregation, slavery, that intermarriage of the races is wrong, the subordination of women…..

    @ Bush Tea, you are beginning to sound as stupidly shrill as Matthew Farley seeking to defend the infliction of pain upon people (who cannot fight back effectively or at all) so as to bring them around to your way of thinking. As it may be with the girlfriend who cheats; the pensioner who will not hand over her money or the shopkeeper who will not open the till.

    I note, and forgive too, your ignorance of the delivery of legal education and the separation of the programmes. At Cave Hill we teach legal scholarship, thinking and research techniques; it is at HWLS or NMLS that our graduates will be taught the courtroom procedures, practices and ethics of the profession. If, like yours on most matters, their feeble brains are incapable of assimilating these lessons, why should UWI accept the blame? Why not their secondary or primary schools?…I suspect that you yourself were flogged too much as a youngster.

  28. pieceuhderockyeahright Avatar
    pieceuhderockyeahright

    @ AC

    You live on and in a rock of calcified thought and sentiment and anything that is contrary to your limited experience having had it kicked from you during the sparring and mis-steps during katas leaves you in a constant state of shell shock.

    Both still exist in Murica, it just depends on where you are dufus and while the name of one might have changed the other still is in vogue, unlike the erroneous info your google provided you.

    If you think de ole man was rough in 2015, watch me in 2016, GOD sparing me life and keeping memory and fingers wukking.

    Watch my scvunt heheheheh

    @ The Blogmaster

    The Case of the Muslim Woman is one that is very unreasonable to say the least.

    Why would she not want to remove what is effectively a mask?

    http://www.goodie.co.za/image/cache/data/Safety%20Signs/Prohibitive/PV18%20-%20No%20Helmets%20NOSA%20Safety%20Sign-600×600.jpg

    Given existing, available technologies for Facial Recognition technologies currently en vogue, NONE, she would loose her case arguing that she should legally be permitted to only show her eyes.

    http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02289/AYJ5JH_2289471b.jpg

    Which human alive, and we are not talking of the A Series 800 terminator, i.e. the the cyborg played by Arnold Schwarzenegger with living tissue over a metal endoskeleton, can scan eyes and recognise who it is under the bolt of cloth??

    Suppose that under her garf it was indeed a man intent on harming Chief Justice marston?/

    And that is not so outlandish see below

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/27/02/2ADDC5C600000578-0-image-m-7_1437961140579.jpg

    Added to that, we are talking about government security officers, our nations finest, next to the RBPF, and the Barbados Defense Force whose claim to fame is running their rubber dingy next to the Jolly Roger, boarding with their Sterlings?, and having a few rum punches and then disembarking.

    Of course those guards will aggressively block people of my colour and yours for wearing our shirt out but will allow white people and “others of privilege” the right to flaunt this rule

    You had had a picture of a father and son (white of course) wearing the very shorts that we niggas get turned back when we go to the courts and seek entry, in the Bajan Blog section. but I cant see that picture there any more.

    @ Jeff Cumberbatch

    Most of what you speak to speaks to either laws that are archaic, laws that exist but are not enforced or customs and practices which there is a need for “Men with Balls” to contest in a court of law.

    Look at how LIME/SLIME/FLOW/WOLF continue to run rough shod over the lives of Bajans, with Impunity, while the Fear Trading Commission remains in a state of nitrogen at -346ยฐF, its freezing point, at which temperature anything that is immersed in it becomes brittle, like the backbones of Bajans, and just break.

    Sorry Mr. Cumberbatch i am being troublesome regarding the entity which you now chair.

    Rome was not built in a day and you will bring change over time


  29. I was expecting Zoe to paste a long dispensation of the biblical story of the Israleties Zoe passion for the morbid is in complete opposite to God acceptance or tolerance to man’s unjustifiable influences and practices against each other founded on imperialistic notions of obedience
    Another another example of obedience which could have lead to the slaughter of a child an act of obedience perceived to be the will of God offering his son as a living sacrifice ,Here again his obedience was not enough and justifiable for God not to intervene putting the Childs well being above Abrahams obedience to him
    Children needs guidance a guidance that is influenced with love compound with a will and desire to understand that violence begats violence
    Abraham ultimate action of servitude towards God was not a crowning moment for obedience but an act of violence had not for Gods intrusion and a uplifting movement against acts of child abuse


  30. I like the nice red bra.

    The white guy with the fat belly.

    Not so much.


  31. @PUDRYR

    What is the difference between a burka and a hijab?


  32. @ Zoe

    โ€œ@Art, You are ignorant regarding the CONTEXT, and historical OT era in which Exodus 21:20-21 is set.โ€

    So, I can safely assume that โ€œYou are ignorant regarding the CONTEXT, and historical OT era in which Proverbs 13:14 is set?

    You have exhibited โ€œscriptural gymnasticsโ€ in your contribution.

    In your long, irrelevant contribution, you failed to address/answer the fundamental issues I raised, which was:

    โ€œIf you are supporting Proverbs 13:14, then you will have no problem in supporting slavery or anyone beating their slaves, โ€œsince the slave is their property.โ€

    โ€œOn the other hand, you cannot agree that slavery was abolished by law, but do not want corporal punishment administered to children to be abolished by law as well.โ€


  33. Jeff

    You seem to misunderstand, misinterpret or my writing was not clear enough.

    When we criticise South Africa we were not doing so as accredited ambassadors to that country. My reference to being white has everything to do with the fact that these white people feel that they can dictate to these independent countries because we are poor and appear to need their help.

    Sent from my iPad

    >

  34. Well Well & Consequences2 Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences2

    Piece….I love that post…lol, Lord Coke…lol… Sewer resigned. Now if we can only get Harris to post some of his prized photos of Bajan politicians, won’t that be cool.

    That female should be named and shamed, exactly what makes her thinks she is special, hiding their faces is not part of muslim religion but used as a form of coutrol by the beasts from the east males to keep females invisible.

    She should get no id, passport or driver’s license unless she conforms like everyone else. That muslim costume is being used to commit crimes cause when covered up, no one knows who is under there.


  35. @ Zoe

    Where in my contribution did I imply the slavery as described in the Bible was similar that experienced by Africans during their enslavement?

    You ASSUMED (and erroneously so) that was what I meant.


  36. Simple Simon

    I am not homophobic. I don’t care what two individuals do in the privacy of their bedrooms. What I find offensive is the putsch by a lot of people who wield power and influence to make people accept something that they find abhorrent.


  37. OK Jeff
    …so you have NO responsibility for the moral / ethical failures of your legal products…. that is somebody else’s responsibility…
    Who does a parent of a child who responds to no other tools (AT THAT PARENT’s DISPOSAL) pass that responsibility on to…? The church? The school? the neighbours?

    It is very convenient of you to be able clear yourself of blame for your graduates….. and remember that Bushie (who raised many children) also never needed to resort to such a tool. But perhaps one day you may choose to offer some suggestions as to how some of the (large numbers) of parents without access to resources available to you, Bushie and Hants may be advised to deal with the little potential gangsters, school bullies and terrorists with whom some have to contend on a daily basis.

    Don’t forget that history has documented many wise men who sounded ‘stupidly shrill’ to the multitude of morons who represented the ‘politically correct’ thinking that prevailed….

    Bottom line…
    The successful growth, development, education and refinement of a child into adulthood is so complex, varied, unpredictable and precious a process, that NOTHING should be ruled out as a possible aid in its achievement.

  38. pieceuhderockyeahright Avatar
    pieceuhderockyeahright

    @ The Blogmaster

    I do admit that I have never worn one but rely on the description provided by the same internet that Zoe is famous for cutting and pasting from.

    “Hijab, niqab, burka – there are lots of different kinds of coverings worn by Muslim women all over the world.

    A hijab or แธฅijฤb is a veil that covers the head and chest, which is particularly worn by some Muslim woman beyond the age of puberty in the presence of adult males outside of their immediate family while others wear a burka or niqab, which also covers up their face.”

    That simple question sent the old man scampering to the internet because I had posted the helmet sign suggesting that the helmet of a motorcyclist entering a building was not any different to the Muslim woman being asked to remove her hijab as he would be asked to remove his helmet but refuses to do so and only raises the visor, showing you his entire face but not his hair.

    I extrapolated albeit selfishly to the instance where one of the Rastah Brethren who, on entering the court while wearing a tam, which by the way can secrete a small .22 calibre weapon for Chief Justice Marston, refuses to remove his tam for a search.

    What happens when said rasta, while traveling to another CARICOM territory, where an officer at the Immigration hall asks him to remove his tam, because he suspects that the Rasta has 5 pounds of herb in his hair/locks.

    Suppose, like the Muslim woman the rasta refuses, on a point of religious observation, to tek off his tam just like she refused to tek off her Hijab?

    Maybe this is the reason Goodluck Ebele Azikiwe Jonathan, GCFR, BNER, GCON, President of Nigeria refused to take off his hat at Buckingham Palace…I going google that…


  39. @Jeff, ouch that 11:19 post stung. You will get a lot of swats trying to smack that devilish insect.

    I was overwhelmed and flummoxed (in a good way) with your piece because again I was taken by the sheer profundity of the commentary, in your now normal ‘double entendre’ way…or as Pieces in his prolix and in this case quite hyperbolic style said how you “expose youself heah pun BU, … dat you and Burnett is pallies?”. You and Burnett peas-in-pod subversives…he wid gun and you wid a much more friggingly powerful pen.

    —Your take on the Caricom citizens issue and its regional impact is pellucid and of course correct. We need look no further than the current major region wide impact evidenced by the Euro Union (hello @ Exlaimer) (1) border and immigration polices and (2) issue of Euro citizens non-Visa required entry into US.

    Whaplax, now they are seeing how that decision back then was perhaps not properly considered because even to this day there is NO comprehensive ‘Schengen’ border conformity or sharing of real time immigration data. You are identifying a weak point here that is now a major one there and is causing the US and others to act upon strongly.

    —- On a weekly basis I am intrigued (again like Pieces above) by your references. That Wallace one is such. How you juxtaposed him, former Sec Gen Annan and a current white EU Ambassador is interesting. I will not attempt to parse your underlying reason but rather use the opportunity to highlight the following.

    For every Bajan (and Mr Pieces the itinerant US traveler) I quote: “Hate crimes detectives are investigating the appearance of fliers promoting the Ku Klux Klan left on cars parked at a Long Island hospital and apartment complex…Police launched a similar investigation in September 2014 after KKK fliers were found in the Suffolk County communities of West Babylon and Shirley.”

    The number of Black Bajans and other Caribbeans who travel to NY and stay with family and friends in these lovely residential communities an hour or two from the city are many. Attention, attention, attention. The Bull Connors and Gov Wallaces abound. Remove the word Alabama and take carefully the words “We shall continue to maintain segregation … completely and absolutely…”.


  40. @Bush Tea. I am confused by your take on the corporal punishment debate.

    Folks like the Ambassador and too Jeff i suspect speak to this issue re the overarching construct of child abuse and ostensibly bring along with it the perspective of parental spanking but I suggest that there can really be no major disagreement on the substantive problem of abuse.

    Here’s why. You said “Bushie (who raised many children) also never needed to resort to such a tool.” So you accepted and decided that you could enforce discipline in other ways.
    The average spank is just that to enforce a point: An immediate sharp retort to modify behavior. It is not the ‘go cut that tamarind rod and bring it here’ soak in brine bahaviour. That’s is abuse in 2015, was abuse in 1915 and remained abusive in 1955.

    It cannot be principals doing what Tank or Bumpy or Barker did? That was not abuse in the strict sense of the word but we are now in a modern era and that has to be circumscribed accordingly.

    The fact is that all the talk of ending school flogging or parental discretionary spanking as it relates to “the little potential gangsters… on a daily basis” is quite a large red-herring. All those things happened when I was a lad and I came out of the back-end of an era when the masters at St.Giles (and Wesley Hall etc of course) were renowned for severe flogging of bad boys or slow learners.

    That didn’t make them good or learn faster…as our country today testifies!!!

    So I’ll leave with this oft-hand remark… Several years ago, it was emblazoned in the Press that never in the history of this rock was any incarcerated person ever a member of Boy Scouts!

    Eh…so what? You ask. None were never a member of the Optimists or other either likely, you add! Indeed, right. I agree.

    Well, this is my take-away: Lads infused with positive, meaningful foundations are more likely to make the right decisions in life than those who do not have that well-disciplined, focused, peaceful environment.

    Not making any deep sociological point about scouting (it has it’s own issues); just saying that corporal punishment as abuse cannot be condoned. As a ‘mild’ corrective spanking it’s discretionary power is proper in my view but still generates too much debate centered on the abuse angle. Furthermore, everyone is capable and must be able to adopt those ‘resources available” to which you alluded.

    (And oh BTW, I suspect former scouts did become white-collar criminals, gay harassers et al so maybe that dictum in absolutely no longer true…the point still stands though: to what beneficial avail corporal punishment/flogging of the past?)


  41. @ Zoe, I am not surprised that you were able to cut and paste an extract from a biblical โ€œscholarโ€ to justify corporal punishment. Equally you could have found one to justify apartheid, segregation, slavery, that intermarriage of the races is wrong, the subordination of womenโ€ฆ..”

    Jeff, the Old Testament NEVER deals with Colour, any references to what may be misconstrued as apartheid, segregation, intermarriage of people, (NOT races!) is ALWAYS in the context of PAGAN civilizations, who worshiped FALSE (Demonic) deities, and God strictly forbid such interaction, NOT on the basis of Colour, but to prevent those, the Hebrews, from being corrupted ‘spiritually’ by these Pagan nations.

    In the NT era, they were/are some denominations, who un-Scripturally imposed apartheid, segregation, etc; without any Biblical warrant whatsoever; giving the Name of Christ, and His True Church a terrible image, doing untold damage the the cause of Jesus, and the Gospel of His Kingdom.

    For, “There is neither Jew nor Greek (Gentile) there is neither SLAVE nor FREE, their is neither MALE nor FEMALE; for you are ALL one in Christ Jesus.” (Gal. 3: 28) Emphasis added.

    Is this too hard to understand!?


  42. @ DIW
    There is no relationship between corporal punishment as a disciplinary measure and ANY kind of abuse.
    Indeed, the very worse kind of parental abuse is actually exactly what Jeff appears to be suggesting to those parents with limited options at their disposal — that is to have a totally hands off approach with the children and leave it all to fate …and the school / police.

    Actually Bushie’s only REAL point is that one has to be living in some kinda fool’s paradise to be so relentlessly seeking to TOTALLY ban ANY kind of disciplinary option – no matter how archaic or cruel it is. In the overall scheme of things, it is tantamount to a country passing a law that says it will not use atomic weapons in a war.

    Skippa, in a war of survival, you will use WHATEVER the shiite provides the result that gives you success. …and even if you were so foolish as to make such a decision…why broadcast it to all your potential enemies?

    So when our AG (JA) started his sojourn with the announcement that he will not be hanging a fellow…. what was supposed to deter the .001 % of the deranged idiots in the population who only did not kill because their own ass was scared stiff of the gallows?
    When he decided to end corporal punishment at Dodds ..what is being offered to deter the .001% of bullies who only refrained from beating up weaker children because they were scared stiff of having THEIR own asses cut?

    In Bushie’s book – FOR THE RECORD – we should retain the cat-o-nine tails, the rack…and possibly, burning at the stake. Wuh the ONLY deterrent that could possibly work with AC would be the stake… ๐Ÿ™‚

    At the macro level, one does NOT pass laws based on the 90% literate and ‘degreed’ population – whose forte is bribery and white-collar crimes anyway… You may be surprised at how many IDIOTS and ANIMALS we have walking about the damn place….who need strong decisive discipline …or THEY will run things bout here… (if they aren’t already doing so with their lotta shooting and stabbing….)

    Jeff would do much better to tell us how to deal with the lotta thieving LAWYERS, politicians, judges and Law OFFICERS who have gone amok in Barbados….


  43. @Zoe

    Having a hard time following your argument. Bear in mind those you seek to defend were lawmakers and there was no groundswell of disagreement with laws that labeled Blacks as chattel by those who chose to follow meekly. Even if we observe the Apprenticeship period when the society as a whole condemned the inferior treatment of Blacks in the post emancipation period, this simply cannot be glossed over.


  44. Take note our AG was quoted in the media last week calling for a reduction in crime. Take note also he did not offer a plan by government to tackle the problem of rising serious crime. If he did BU offers a quick apology.


  45. @Artโ€œIf you are supporting Proverbs 13:14, then you will have no problem in supporting slavery or anyone beating their slaves, โ€œsince the slave is their property.โ€

    Where in my contribution did I imply the slavery as described in the Bible was similar that experienced by Africans during their enslavement?

    You ASSUMED (and erroneously so) that was what I meant.ir slaves, โ€œsince the slave is their property.โ€

    NO, I did not ASSUME (and erroneously so)… any reference to “…anyone beating their slaves,,,since the slave is their property.” Would logically and by implied inference be the Transatlantic Slave Trade, it is YOU who is committing intellectual gymnastics!!!

    Secondly, in supporting Proverbs 23: 14; (Not 13:14) which has never been changed, it is from our Creator, who KNOWS what is best for the upbringing of children.

    And the proper correction of children; and its retention of (corporeal punishment), today; has NO relevant, sociological connection to “…then you will have no problem in supporting slavery or anyone BEATING their slaves…” (emphasis added).

    Corrective Disciple for the Rebellious, FAMILY ORDER.

    Discipline is the other side of teaching. A child with a teachable spirit will still need thorough explanation, much patience, opportunity to try and experiment, including the right to fail and to learn by failure. A child, however, who is caught up in willful DISOBEDIENCE ( Prov. 29:15), rebellion (I Sam.15:23), or STUBBORN foolishness (Prov. 22:15), closes off effective teaching and DISRUPTS the harmony of the family. God’s answer to this IS firm and loving discipline.

    The Bible makes a clear distinction between discipline and physical abuse. Discipline maybe painful but NOT injurious. We are never to inflict harm on a child (Prov. 23:13), but at TIMES pain may be a part of effective correction.

    God requires that parents properly correct their children. Even a child’s eternal destiny can hinge upon the Godly discipline provided by parents ( Prov. 23:14).

    We must be careful, not to throw the baby of revelation (God’s instruction on discipline) OUT, with the bath-water of extravagant superstition!


  46. David December 27, 2015 at 2:44 PM #
    @Zoe

    Having a hard time following your argument. Bear in mind those you seek to defend were lawmakers ( David, I AM NOT seeking to DEFEND anyone!)

    In truth and FACT, I’ve openly stated here on BU, time and again, that I steadfastly maintain, that ANYONE who condoned slavery, apartheid, segregation, etc, etc; could NOT be true Christians, but, were masquerading under the banner of Christianity!

    The BIGGEST masquerader IS* Roman Catholicism, and a number of other Harlot daughter chruches!

    The Media presents Catholicism as the head of Christendom, absolute HOGWASH!

    Equating Catholicism with the TRUE Church of The Lord Jesus Christ; is like equating the Cosa Nostra (the Mafia) with the Salvation Army!!!


  47. @Zoe

    Then we have a problem because the Pope is globally regarded as the spokesman of the Christian Church.

  48. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar

    In truth and FACT, Iโ€™ve openly stated here on BU, time and again, that I steadfastly maintain, that ANYONE who condones suicide bombing, the beheading of innocents and the wanton murder of civilians could NOT be true Islamists, but, were masquerading under the banner of Islam!

    @ Zoe, you need not thank me for the editing!


  49. David December 27, 2015 at 3:24 PM #
    @Zoe

    Then we have a problem because the Pope is globally regarded as the spokesman of the Christian Church.

    YOU HAVE A PROBLEM, AND THOSE LIKE YOU THAT DO NOT KNOW THE WORD OR CHURCH HISTORY

    WHERE IS THE POPE MENTIONED ANYWHERE IN THE NT as the spokesman of the Christian Church?

    IS THERE NOT A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CHRISTIANITY AND CHRISTENDOM?

    IN THE ESCHATON WHERE IS THE TRUE CHURCH? SEE REV 4 &5 Note there is no pope or poppit THERE TALKING SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH…………TE!

    WHERE IS THE FALSE CHURCH SEE REV &17/18 …….AT THAT TIME THE Pope is globally regarded as the spokesman of the “Christian Church” TOO. AH LIE

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