In this provocative talk, Afra Raymond takes a deeper look at race and racism. He successfully uses the talk to place a new perspective on how we think about race […]
and its role in corruption.
Sobering commentary on the sad reality of how things happen or don’t happen in our society. The comparison with India and Nigeria make it all the more haunting. We have failed and we have to do better – Chip Sa Gomes
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Exclaimer wrote
same objectives and that is to see a country that is free of corruption and is governed by honest decent people.
Agreed 100%! That is exactly why I have been calling for strict INTEGRITY Legislation. Who totally failed to implement their promise to accomplish this—DLP, party in power. Which of these Pols (who happen to be black, cause there are plenty White Pols/ other skins around the Globe) benefits by EXTORTING $$$$$$ from businessmen?
Please be aware that no person with business acumen would want to payout BIG $$$$$$$ every year to Pols! Any person with commonsense appreciates that good business people keep their Costs as low as possible BUT have to pay up when they are being held to ransom by Customs and Pols. Who do U call when U want to build a major RE Project in Bim, who gets a cut for pushing through this? Do they give a rahteed that the said Project may provide work for 500+ Bajans? NO! They want their CUT first!
If there are corruption issues allegedly tied to Cow Williams enterprises and govt the issue of corruption does not have nothing to do with the issue of racism
You are trying to interject the issue of corruption as a plausible argument where you can justify you rants and raves towards Cow Williams as sufficient proof that he is racist
Stick to one issue and just deal with the facts instead of trying to advance your arguments based on political rhetoric and fancy foot dancing
De igrunt….stupid you are indeed, I give you an A for honesty, I only managed to make it through half of your rant, had to by pass the other half, it turned into a ramble, at the rate you are going, you will soon start to cry……see why you can’t dance with me now, you are out of your depth. David simply wants me to present him with proof he knows is in my possession re certain allegations about some lawyers that the whole island knows is very accurate, a reasonable request and one which I will honor when I can.
The way you are starting to sound, it’s like you experiened so much racism in Canada at some point during your immigration.that you have become numb……nothing to be ashamed of, I experiened racism in the US too but I fought back…..now go ahead and tell me you never eperienced racism I expect you to. You just don’t want to admit that it’s part of Barbados’ landscape. ..your little utopia however, does not help the people who have to live in Barbados and be subjected to the nasty practice.
MB my issue is I only have the amount of children I can afford, eg put a roof over their head clothe, feed school expenses etc etc …..but I am being bred out and have to pay for it. I don’t think of having many kids as some kind of pension plan. We don’t need families of 12 to work on the farm anymore we have machines for that, we don’t need people knocking up multiple women and the state ( us ) paying for it. I have produced some pretty good looking kids not like a lot of these mutts I see running around, yet I know that even if bajans ar n’t taking in any refugees they should try keeping it in their pants, then you wouldn’t have to kowtow, or go on a mass migration north
@de Ingrunt Word December 13, 2015 at 8:58 AM #
The posts on these blogs are submitted by a variety of individuals with the majority truly believing in what they expound.
Some have agendas and use different bandwagons to jump on even presenting convoluted arguments that are contradictory.
I try to be logical based on research that I have done on a particular subject and respond to posts that are off target mainly for posterity as I do believe that blogs are a usefull addition to the sharing of facts/ideas/thoughts despite some misognysts and delinquents who should know better.
I hope you continue to share your opinions on this blog site.
WW
According to your definition of racism, many of my family members and myself experienced”racism” while in England and to a lesser extent in Canada/ Aus/ et al.
Humans can be nasty at any opportunity.
Chist AC….read the heading of the article again, I refuse to cut and paste it again. Racism and corruption go hand in hand. I get angry when I have to agree with Moneybrain about DBLP governments extortig money from Cow et al, we all know it starts as extorting payments for projects and morph into consistent and decades old bribery. And you keep giving MoneyB the ammunition he needs to keep reminding us.
Exclaimer….De Word just needs a little more convincing, you should hear the big squabble Moneybrain and I had on here some years ago about race, it lasted nearly a week. David eded up relegatig us to another link. Intelligent people are really needed on board to fight this demon, De Word is quite capable and could be playing hard to get, however if he loves Barbados, he will know it’s for the best.
So WW &C now that you have bee knocked of your Racism pedestal that you so lofty placed yourself
See if you can bring sufficient energy by engaging the audience with proof positive of everything you have said in the past few days
I ask you to bring the facts where laws binds employers to be benevolent to their employees and still have not received the information from you
That’s right MoneyB, it happens all the time, all you need to be racist is a working brain, that does not apply to you AC,…lol. we just have to convince the unconvinced. Why do they think right thinking Europeans who don’t carry the diseased mind of the racist are trying to eradicate it to save thir countries, it’s in their best interest to do so.
I do not have to tell you that those are predominantly white countries, not enough of other groups to practice institutionalized racism on, in some of them, so they practice it on each other. No country can progress under those conditions…..and besides it’s been centures, racism has run it’s course.
AC……again, if I have to tell you everything, you do not deserve an answer, why don’t you go on Caswell’s link, I noticed you been avoiding it all morning and sticking to me like glue, why.
Caswell’s link has the information you seek.
Racism or not…can we all agree that the nice muslim people in africa and the middle eat should be looking after the nuclear arsenals
@Exclaimer at 9:31 AM ” Let us not bring the level of conversation down to personal pot shots.” It’s impossible to achieve that now as personal taunts are the base level for many bloggers here. I try my utmost to avoid that as I don’t see how it advances a debate but surely even I slip into the murky depths on occasion. If I did above beyond acceptable debating retorts den I stand to be shamed.
What exactly are you saying?????? “Barbados would be in a far healthier position if men like you and others had come out earlier and roundly condemned the evil of racism and corruption and how it has remained and become deeply embedded in our country.”
What does this even mean? Do you know how much talk has been presented, planted, watered, grown to maturity, re-used and replanted on racism and prejudice in Barbados over the years? Google Elombe Mottley if you are not familiar with the name. He was a vocal activist of all things Afro-centric and the racial context in BIM throughout the 70s – 90s until he departed BIm to Jamaica… He was NOT the only one.
The term ‘white shadows’ as a reference to political behind-the-scenes movementations was coined popularly way back in the 70s.
“It is not too late for you to come on board. …You remain loyal to darkness because you see yourself as a man of honour….” Thank you for the honorific but you know these ‘unambiguous’ facts based on what now?
I am an intellectual in the least? Trust me on that. LOLLLL. Oh lawd, and you perceive that I am not a foot soldier based on what again, words? You are as eloquent as I am so why are those 3-stars of General rank not on YOUR lapel???? Pray tell!
Exclaimer please do not make such grand statements without at minimum some strong basis to validate your assertions.
Earlier you offered to the experienced unionist that he should engage international partners et al. Why did you think that advice was necessary to a man of his back ground? Did you consider that a previous Barbados Union powerhouse was a leader at the ILO for eons and thus he knows all about the international dynamic?
Or that Mr Franklyn himself said that same leader called him the best unionist in Barbados, or similar words.
Why then would he need you to highlight to him the essentials of negotiating, partnership and strategy?
Did you reflect on the fact that our entire political existence has been built on the dynamic between union and the elected power. Yet you were suggesting that as a necessary nexus.
Not being rude sir but, your good intentions apart, on what basis are you making your pronouncements?
lawson December 13, 2015 at 10:07 AM #,
He wrote ” I have produced some pretty good looking kids”….” not like a lot of these mutts I see running around,”
That is offensive.
The definition of a “mutt” is ………”A mutt is a mongrel (a dog of unknown ancestry).”
The Bajan equivalent is “salmon tot retriever, pot starver.”
@ David, freedom of speech on this blog has no bounds.
Jeez Igrunt…… you are about to explode, if your foreparents did not work through various dynamics to free themselves from chains, you too would still be in chains….nothing fixes itself, you actually have to get off your ass and fix things in a fight for survival and to manifest change, Elombe et al opened people’s eyes to their mental and physical condtions, some saw, some remained blind, that’s the nature of the best. Just imagine how people like the late ROK was able to shape their thinking based on their relatioships with Elombe and others,.
All positive contributions make a difference for those inclined to recognize the problems and don’t believe they are too far removed from everything, it does not affect them, so therefore there are no problems. You are very easy to read, just be kind enough not to try convincing anyone that the problems do not exist.
Is it only white people who can be racist?
No, except that one appears to be mostly pro-action and the other appears to be mostly re-action to the pro-action as a means of psychological self preservation.
AC…..you are still pimping around this link and not commenting on Caswell’s, what are you afraid of, is it the truth. Do government ministers routinely change parliamentary laws in favor of employers to make sure employees/taxpayers never get out of the cycle of discrimination practiced by employers, are they doing that for free and why would they, are they taking bribes to commit those crimes against taxpayers, which is more likely.
I see you using big words like alledged, is this also alledged, can it be proven, I know it can be proven. That is bribery and corruption..I felt it my duty to tell you what’s going on re Caswell’s link, cause we both know you are hiding from it….lol
I believe many of us have taken Afra Raymond’s article out of context relative to his use of the term racism… but that just MY opinion.
C.O Williams said he started in life with one tractor and was able, through hard work and determination, to build his “empire.” What is preventing any Black Barbadian from achieving a similar objective?
Sam, a Black Barbadian, decides, similar to COW, to buy an old tractor and tries his hand at some construction work. He goes to the bank for a business loan, but the BLACK loans officer/manager makes the loan application procedure extremely difficult for him to qualify for the funds. However, if Sam wanted a loan for consumer purposes or to buy a car, it would have been approved within a day.
He goes to his BLACK relatives and friends for a loan or for them to assist him in any way they could, but they all refuse, many tell him they have no money (even though they do), while others would try to discourage him. They secretly wish he fails so they can get the chance to say “see wuh I tell yuh, dah cun work.”
The white people and Indians would make sure they offer their “brother” as much assistance and encouragement as possible.
Whereas when COW was first starting out, his white “brothers” gave him the start in business he needed by giving him work and recommending him to their friends, Sam approaches his BLACK “brothers” to offer his services, but they prefer COW and other whites who offer similar services, because “they can do a better job.” Then these same black people come to BU to complain that white people got nuff money.
After much frustration, Sam finally gets a few jobs and decides to but a newer model tractor and a small truck, in hopes of expanding the business. His BLACK clients see this as progress and decides not to give him anymore work because “he getting too big fuh he boots and mekking too much money.”
On the other hand, COW bought more equipment, his white “brothers” hail him as being progressive and successful, and tries to get more work for him, while BLACK people feel proud to see what he has been able to achieve and patronize him even more.
Sam charges his BLACK client $800 for a job and either has to wait for a year before he is paid or the client wants to “price the job” and pays him $500. COW charges both BLACK and WHITE $1,000 for a similar job, and they BOTH pay “up front.”
THIS IS RACISM.
@Vincent, oh I will. I agree completely with you at 10:11 AM. So I will interject from time to time. As you said” Some have agendas and use different bandwagons to jump on even presenting convoluted arguments that are contradictory”. Thus it becomes inanely ridiculous after a while wading through the waves from people like @ Well Well.
I wish you well on her stuff. This lady calls me stupid and unable to grasp the basics which she had to break down.
We [or maybe just me] are now refuting the existence of racism despite remarks completely to the contrary. And despite my recent comment to the blogger Exclaimer that it has been top-of-mind (and rampant) in Barbados for the last 30+ years in particular.
That’s a special type of blog tautology from her so enough for the day.
@Well Well, David does his blog based on information so you are quite right he “simply wants [you] to present him with PROOF (my emphasis) … “. He does NOT want allegations or someone who seeks public acclaim by the lotta palaver about her PLANS for her major disclosure. Just the facts, is his call.
An interaction that started with two bloggers drawing a distinction to the fact that prejudice and discrimination existed among and between Blacks and the people who made up their kingdoms long before any White hegemony from the years of slavery has now morphed into YOU telling us “just be kind enough not to try convincing anyone that the problems [of prejudice and racism] do not exist.”
Insanely ridiculous. But essential to maintaining your agenda I presume.
Artax…
If you think that COW charges both his black and white clients $1000 for a similar job you probably will be interested in a used whacker Bushie has for sale…
If you think that our stinking Black politicians who ROUTINELY accept ‘generous donations’ from COW and his ilk, would risk losing this perk by distributing those MASSIVE government contracts evenly, then Bushie could sell you a second whacker at 120% of the current value..
Why Black people who are interested in business feel this need to rush into banks to “borrow money” like the white people do, is fascinating… especially considering the poor history….
The BLACK model is slow and steady growth….and co-operatively. But this slavish commitment to walking into a Bank and walking out with everything that you need is foreign, NON-BLACK and purely materialistic….
It will NEVER work for us generally….
It is why even when Blacks do succeed, the second generation then looks for a ‘cash-out’
so as to replicate the whites…
It is also why this second generation of politicians have sold every shiite that the founding fathers SCRUNTED to accumulate…
This is NOT racism Artax…. it is BRASS BOWLERY.
hants you mutt what are you trying to start…all I was saying was even though I produce good looking kids I don’t have more than I can afford. I don’t feel the taxpayer should pay for stupidity If you want to see an ugly parent ..follow an ugly kid home. So are you lashing out at me because of the inordinate amount of visitors you get?
No Igrunt…..you called yourself stupid…I agreed and gave you an A for honesty, read the post again, you just twisted facts you yourself can prove, as to your other rants, not worth answering since everything is playing out as I have been calling them…..even the supreme court….so there…lol
@de Ingrunt Word December 13, 2015 at 12:07 PM #
Chuckle….. I think we have reached the same conclusion on that person,I no longer discourse but will continue to encourage her as she needs to vent which hopefully will assist her to get to wherever or whatever.
Well Well & Consequences December 13, 2015 at 8:19 AM #
“So Zoe…something as simple as that statement eludes you when you cut and paste all types of convoluted, confusing, unproven crap you yourself cannot understand.”
No, WW&C, your simple statement, is utterly unrealistic, un-biblical, it CAN’T happen, because my posting and cut and paste, are ALL based on historic, FACTUAL evidences, coming to pass, exactly as prophesied in God’s Word, the Bible, literally DAY by DAY, which in your BLINDED ignorance, you have chosen NOT to want to see!
Your utopic dreams, are just that, childlike utopia. Mankind, across the nations of this Evil, Wicked, world, are IN the biggest MESS ever, unfolding precisely as Jesus said it would, and its only warming up, we ain’t see nothing yet; But, we are in the End-Time generation, season, and it will ONLY be sorted out, when The Prince of Peace, The Lord Jesus Christ, makes His final and Glorious appearance, for ALL to see!!!
Go and scoff some more now!!!
Art obviously never did business with Cow and Mark Maloney et al…..they charge their ‘white’ compadres one amount and charge blacks more and have been doing so for decades, people are getting tied up. I know some ass wil now come on here and tell me that’s not true.
Zoe…which part of I cut and paste an article that Exclaimer posted on the blog you don’t understand, he told you himself, you can’t change reality, the Europeans are doing what needs to be done to change what is no longer working, it was not my idea, they thought of it themselves.
All you crazy asses seem attracted to my comments but are not even interested in reading them properly.
They were, and still ARE, whites that cannot obtain loans from Banks, because they simply do NOT qualify for such Banking criteria!
And, they ARE Blacks, now, who have the required collateral to qualify for loans.
In today’s B’dos, some of the nicest cars and SUV’s are owned and driven by Blacks.
Again, some of the biggest 5 & 6 bedroom homes are owned by Blacks; we have probably, the strongest Black middle Class any where; because in a relatively short period of time, (50 years) since Independence, THOUSANDS of Blacks, made good with FREE Secondary and Tertiary education, and are better OFF, than many Whites, who are not as well qualified as Blacks. and are still employed, and struggling like many others.
@Zoo
Do you appreciate to buy a car in Barbados one does not even have to make a deposit and you have nearly 10 years o repay?
@David December 13, 2015 at 1:16 PM #
What has that got to do with his substantive points re loans,houses and the large middle class,all of which I agree with…….go down Martins bay,Zoares or Glenburnie if you want to see poor melanin poor.
@Vincent
What is your definition of middle-class?
Wait!!
Zoe…. Are you some kinda idiot?
What are you saying…? that because a few black people in a population of 90% blacks happen to drive nice cars and live in 5 bedroom houses that all is well?
You are thereby admitting your predisposition to thinking that blacks are just yardboys and house servants who should be grateful to have been allowed to own stuff like homes and cars…. (which is EXACTLY what COW is saying about his workers)
Statistically, for every 1 rich white, there should be 18 equally rich Blacks in Barbados for us to be able to say that there was some form of equality.
Just as your mind has been brainwashed with ridiculous religious dogma that you CANNOT defend (at least not against Bushie) you seem to be also brainwashed with this idea that Blacks are of inferior stock.
Both these misconceptions are false.
Your religion, with your Catholic created Trinity AND you ingrained racial profiling are ill conceived, as is this idea of Black inferiority. Blacks are NOT inferior, they are just brass bowls who insist on trying to live like Whites…
BBE is REAL and is logical …and all the plans initiated by this absolutely phenomenal entity are ON TRACK and going EXACTLY as laid out….
Blacks are, and ALWAYS have been, CENTRAL to those plans….. having been made in BBE’s OWN IMAGE and likeness, but (brass bowls that we are) having forsaken our natural RIGHTEOUS traditions and adopted the selfish and greed-driven ways of other offshoots of the human race….. we fail to COMPREHEND why we have become the dregs of society ALL OVER THIS WORLD.
Your supposed ‘knowledge’ is sadly ill-conceived and is foolishly based on prevailing fallacies that have been perpetrated by your ‘White’ role models ….the very ones responsible for the current state of this world in which we live…
@David December 13, 2015 at 2:02 PM #
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The middle class is a class of people in the middle of a social hierarchy. In Weberian socio-economic terms, the middle class is the broad group of people in contemporary society who fall socio-economically between the working class and upper class.
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
I have no objection to the above criteria.
@Artax
Just for the record Cows first construction work was the Govt Deep Water Harbour. No one wanted their Bulldozer in the saltwater so Cow got the contract and spent time every evening washing and greasing his only D6, after a full day of driving work. He had no money to pay for help then 1960ish. he had family connections that could lend him $$$$ but not necessarily his family.
@Bush Tea December 13, 2015 at 3:19 PM #
Chuckle…….ah did done know yuh is a flash in de pan…….one sensible post per day is all you can handle it seems as you are back with arant nonsense about a few blacks and now you and Zoe are going to argue whose myth is bigger the BBE or God…..have fun.
Artax wrote
He goes to the bank for a business loan, but the BLACK loans officer/manager makes the loan application procedure extremely difficult for him to qualify .
WHY?
When i started out in Canada I had to answer tough questions and pay 200 basis points more than I do now. The bank wants to lend but wants back the capital and wants interest paid frequently. Cars can easily be repossessed. $$$ in a business are generally not too liquid.The key question is whether the process and questions are fair. White Bajans have the advantage of having more money sooner so someone might put up colateral to back a new venture
When in doubt just revert to the good old thesaurus, not a an original definition found anywhere in the brains, or lack of, who are always among the first to jump up and challenge everyone, without first reading or understanding the comments…lol
Fact is that most of COWs Projects over most of his history were from Bdos Govt. Govt does NOT pay fast. That man took plenty nuff RISKs and nearly went under on a few occasions but no one is likely to bring that part up.
Bushie wrote
Statistically, for every 1 rich white, there should be 18 equally rich Blacks in Barbados for us to be able to say that there was some form of equality.
Ideally yes, but totally impractical since Whites had a headstart!
The critical factor is EQUALITY of Opportunity.
The MAJORITY in any country, be they BLACK, WHITE, Latino, etc, etc., are the ones who struggle, employed, trying to make ends meet!
Only a small minority, in any country are well off.
in America, the vast majority of Whites, are the ones working in the Construction industry, driving Trucks, Buses, Plumbers, Electricians, PIT cleaners, etc, only appearing to be doing well, most of them are in DEBT, for house mortgages, car loans, just like the rest of us wherever we are in this world.
This MYTH, as is commonly believed right here in Bimshire, that ALL white people have money and are well off, is NOT the reality at all.
They are Blacks right here in B’dos, who own arches of land, fishing boats, etc, quietly, with NO fuss! A few even ride bicycles, and could write a cheque any day for $100,000.00 like pocket change.
I would like someone, like Bobby Morris, to do a survey across Barbados, and see how many Blacks own land, bungalows, it would be a big surprise to all and sundry what such a survey would reveal!!
Bush Tea December 13, 2015 at 3:19 PM #
Wait!!
Zoe…. Are you some kinda idiot?
NO, Bush TEA, it is YOU, who is the IDIOT!
Any FOOL, that would openly declare right here on BU, like YOU did, “I WILL BE GOD”
your utterly DECEIVED spiritual DOGMA, would quite naturally be subjected to, and frequently expressive of the nonsense you spew forth, with the ‘occasional’ sensible post. 🙂
So by BT”S math for every white guy on the island with a small dick there are 18 black guys the same.
lawson December 13, 2015 at 4:35 PM #
So by BT”S math for every white guy on the island with a small dick there are 18 black guys the same.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………
Not really . He went on to say thats white have a HEAD start.
So what you are saying is ..if you were getting buggered by a black photographer it may hurt, but not 18 times more than a white photographer. Island life you something everyday
learn something everyday
@ Money B
Ideally yes, but totally impractical since Whites had a headstart!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You are a reasonable fellow….and bright.
Answer this question HONESTLY for Zoe, cause he like he slow or something… 🙂
If the situation had been REVERSED, and it was blacks who had the head start, do you honestly think that 60 years down the road AFTER whites gained political control and the POWER to make changes, that such ‘headstart’ would have meant one single shiite…?
Discuss with Zoe…. everyone else knows the answer to that question…
WAIT … you may need to help Vincent too…. lol ha ha ha
@ Zoe
LOL
It REALLY seems to bother your ass that Bushie has been adopted by BBE…and will soon be joining the original bushman in one of those ‘big-up’ mansions that he has gone to prepare…. EAT your donkey out!!
Wuh …somebody gotta keep those big lawns in check boss…
If you subscribe to some close-shop, ‘Trinity’, god that have no place for you and GP …what the hell that got to do with Bushie?
LOL … yuh betta hope that BT don’t get the job of whacking wunna asses after the Judgement day …. else the whacker may be loaded with cat-o-nine-tails fuh wunna tail…
ha ha ha
@Bush Tea December 13, 2015 at 7:10 PM #
Chuckle…..bozie,ah never see so much drivle from an alumnus…….tell mah who teach you dis rubbish……we were taught to reason and be logical and eschew assumptions……but you all over de place verbalising excreta……wuhloss.
Well Well & Consequences December 13, 2015 at 12:57 PM #:
“Art obviously never did business with Cow and Mark Maloney et al…..they charge their ‘white’ compadres one amount and charge blacks more and have been doing so for decades…”
The above comment is irrelevant.
My contribution was a HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO in which I tried to illustrate the “practical” realities Black business men are confronted with in Barbados.
But rather then read the contribution within the context it was written and recognize that Black entrepreneurs have experienced difficulties in obtaining loans; Black relatives/friends unwillingness to offer assistance; customers’ displaying a reluctance to pay the amount charged for services rendered or refusing to pay; losing customers because they expanded their businesses; and many customers preferring to conduct business with the entrepreneur’s white counterparts, some contributors choose to focus on trivial things.
Blacks getting the shitty end of the financial stick is rooted in institutional racism, This form of racism has dogged blacks and will continue until blacks have the tenacity to withhold their financial clout as customers and depositors in these financial institutions
Until then the financial institutions would continue to stigmatized blacks and classify them as high risk debtors only good for loans that can attract high interest to a lower percentage of blacks and to the substantial remaining blacks no credit at all
“Money Brain December 13, 2015 at 3:47 PM #
Fact is that most of COWs Projects over most of his history were from Bdos Govt. Govt does NOT pay fast.”
But they pay though and Sir cow is smart enough to know that as long as they are people to tax they will get paid.
“Well Well & Consequences December 13, 2015 at 12:57 PM #
Art obviously never did business with Cow and Mark Maloney et al…..they charge their ‘white’ compadres one amount and charge blacks more and have been doing so for decades, people are getting tied up. I know some ass wil now come on here and tell me that’s not true.”
What is wrong with that? The other ethnicities or colours do it too. Chinese, Indians- It is called preservation of my own kind. I believe my colour has the capacity to do the same. But no we spend our time fighting to get in the Harbour lights or perceived disbarment from the communities or social gatherings of the others; spending huge sums on wigs to look like them or on their fashion wear- Hilfiger; louis vitton and nike to boot and all loads of other shite that white people don’t wear unless it is freely obtained presumably to boost our esteem and the other races against whom we fret smiling all the way to the bank off these ignorant black brassbowls.
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