Working Women
Submitted by Felicia Browne, Women’s Advocate
A few weeks ago, a friend shared the good news of getting a new job. She was very excited by the idea of working with a high-end organization and making a good salary. As I congratulated her, I couldn’t help but reflect on the fact that my friend would likely face economic inequities in women’s rights, inequities found throughout the Caribbean that are often ignored and unchallenged
For instance, although many countries have engaged in national debates about the establishment of a minimum wage,very few have seen the urgency of implementing one? This is discouraging given the fact that women and their children remain the poorest population in the Caribbean, that there is very limited public assistance and free, basic health care available, and that the cost of living is ever rising.
Beyond the need for a living minimum wage and necessary associated benefits, the systemic inequity that women typically earn significantly less than men for comparable work should be addressed so that women receive equal pay for equal work. Internationally the median earnings of full-time female workers are 77 percent of those of full-time male workers. The Inter-American Development Bank (IDB) claimed in 2012 that for “professional” jobs in the Caribbean region, (including those related to the higher paying jobs in architecture, law and engineering) the wage gap between men and women was significantly higher. Caribbean women earn 58 percent of men on average in comparable professional positions, even though Caribbean women have exceeded men in higher education. Due to discrimination and cultural prejudices, they often pursue careers in psychology, teaching or nursing, professions which perpetuate the traditional role of women as nurturers and caretakers.
Countries which have taken steps towards employment rights by increasing the wages of women and other workers have generally improved the of standard of living and quality of life for women and their families. However, the minimum wage should be high enough to allow women to provide adequately for their themselves and their dependents.
Women as a minority group are at a further disadvantage as many women are employed part-time and subsequently ineligible for benefits, such as health insurance (IDB,2012). These types of employment discrimination contribute to women’s inability to provide sufficient health care and financial security for their dependents. Employment rights’ advocates have long held that although women have continued to make strides in the economic development of their countries as workers, many are greatly disadvantaged due to a lack of educational opportunities and effective legislation for women in the workforce. Laws are needed to protect women from sexual harassment, to provide them affordable child care services, and to ensure them proper security and transportation, especially those who work late-night and graveyard shifts.
A larger percentage of women tend to be active in high income countries, where over two-thirds of the female adult population participate in the labor market and the gender gap regarding participation rates is less than 15 percent. This is especially true in countries with extensive social protection coverage and societies where part-time work is possible and accepted. Education, especially higher education, has not only allowed women to re-define their place within the workplace, but has been a major factor in improving their standard of living and quality of life. In providing these educational opportunities for women, developing countries have seen women’s contribution to national economic prosperity. In order to close the gender gap, advocates have recommended that employment reform for women should seek to provide a more equitable work space and equal maternity leave for both parents. This could help level the playing field with respect to decisions about hiring women and men. Furthermore, it could encourage men and women to dedicate more time to their newborns, generating more equal decisions.
It is significant that the World Bank defines employment as covering certain types of non-market production (unpaid work), including production of goods for one’s own use. Unfortunately, the World Bank and other international agencies continue to exclude household work in one’s own home, such as cooking, cleaning, shopping, washing ironing, etc, and child, spousal and elder care, each of which involve a very large range of skills and responsibilities. Women’s work as wives, mothers, caretakers, and homemakers are essential and equal contributors to the society and economy, however no monetary value is acknowledged or assigned to their work by society or the law. To continue to devalue women’s work in the home as an obligation with little or no financial compensation remains the greatest discrimination against women.
Barbados Underground 
Are men and women paid the same for doing the same work? In Barbados.
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@ John Hanson
Maybe I am lost in the backwashed of disillutionment because I cannot entertain the idea that a male and female employed in the governmental sector in Barbados, in the year 2015, let’s say as clerks are paid substantially different salaries. There is some about that hypothesis that just doesn’t sit well with me. I care not to entertain it and hope that it isn’t true because it ought and should affront the moral- conscience of every conscious thinking Barbadian. Maybe this is a reality in the private-sector of Barbados, but I certainly hope that our government isn’t in the business of discriminating against women.
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Note: there is seldom any real debate regarding the unionized woman, who is on same equal footing as her male counterpart, as far as salary goes. You know, I have noticed that there is tendency to tiptoe around this issue as though it doesn’t or fails to exist. Now you know that we are cognizant of the fact that a democratically elected government, isn’t in the business of discriminating against women? So this obviously leads one to concluded that the income-inequality which has been given much public-scrutiny in recent years, is an issue which ought and must be addressed at the private-sector level one obviously hopes.
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I dont see the point of this article.
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RE Women as a minority group
IS THIS TRUE? BY WHAT PARAMETERS OR DEFINITIONS
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Dompey June 5, 2015 at 9:53 AM #
@ John Hanson
Maybe I am lost in the backwashed of disillutionment because I cannot entertain the idea that a male and female employed in the governmental sector in Barbados, in the year 2015, let’s say as clerks are paid substantially different salaries.
Dompey…..exactly what surprised you, they still use statutory rape as a weapon against young girls, 40 years after you became aware of it, they still victimize people who are unaware and unable to defend themselves, they still keep everything that could help each other a big secret on the island, yes, even the government savings bonds were a secret for 35 years because Bajans did not want each other to know about it, that meant everyone who was able would be able to progress, a no no in the Bajan society.
So what are you so surprised about…….the island is at least 4 decades behind most developed countries in the most important areas, the dudes are greedy and like to hog everything, no one is surprised that life style diseases take precedent, is prevalent and nothing changes.
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By the way, females are the majority on the island, there are many more females than males, males are in the minority, they are just piggishly greedy and that is from the top to the bottom of the society.
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More women work than men, more women occupy better paying positions than men , more women own more cars and houses than men , more women have more savings than men, more women travel than men , hell every kadooment day more women are wucking up in bands than men .. off men’s money.
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Is bruce jenner going to take a drop in pay?
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Well Well
I have read your argument regarding the treatment or mistreatment of women in Barbados, and one could with equal justification give credance to such an argument. But then I am reminded as well as mindful of the fact that some women in Barbados now occupy positions of prominence and importance within the wider sphere of the Barbadian society. So therefore, the onus is on this sacred lot, who are obviously equipped and quite capable of forging the kind of transformation which is desparately and rightfully needed, to make right the historical as well as the contemporary injustices allotted to these repositeries of the human race.
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Lawson
No need to be concerned about Caitlyn making less than Bruce.
http://www.tmz.com/2015/06/04/caitlyn-jenner-endorsements-more-money-than-bruce/
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Well Well
If women in the Barbadian society and elsewhere in the wider -world are still looked upon as second-class-citizens, what does this say about mother’s influence over their sons, and wives influence over their husbands?
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This article belongs in the US press. Take a look at the ‘high-end’ jobs in Barbados. They are dominated by women Go into banks – majority women, offshore industry – majority women. I am one of only three men (includes an ex-pat)working in an IBU. What the author should concentrate upon is the lack of children amongst these high-end career women. Only two in my office have kids.
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Kevin
The fact that the high end jobs in Barbados are dominated by women, still does not change the fact that some women are still being underpaid far less than their male-counterparts, for performing jobs that are equal or above that of some men.
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@Lawson, “Is bruce jenner going to take a drop in pay?” Cute. LOL. Call her ‘Daddy’ was part o her press commentary (or former stud Olympian decathlete) so I think she keeps getting the big bucks.
But nice teaser.
@Kevin, I thought the post was about equal pay for women not necessarily about top jobs for women. So are the ladies being paid at the level that a man would have been paid in the same post?
Interesting point re children. What is wrong with a career lady postponing or even not having children? Oft times they become surrogate mums to their siblings children or other younger relatives.
As long as these ladies use their success as a positive model for others it really is not that important if they have children themselves.
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Some of you definitely lack comprehension skills. What about the article suggest the author has located her thesis to Barbados?
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re Some of you definitely lack comprehension skills
THIS IS A VERY BIG PROBLEM AMONG THE BU BLOGGERS THEN YOU WONDER WHY I MOCK IN THE BU RUM SHOP
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Kevin
It is a mindset amongst some men that will require a new outlook based on respect and understanding for the woman, but this would call for the abandonment of certain customs, ideas, and ways of thinking- which no longer hold true for the woman in our modern life. We say that we are a society which prides itself on the equality of the woman, but fifty years later and we still have had a woman occupying the highest office in the nation.
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Whether we are incoherent regarding our comprehension of the topic before deliberation, a case ought to be made regarding the position the woman now occupies in the Caribbean today. If women in America are being underpaid to some extent, you can bet your bottom dollar that women in Barbados and elsewhere in Caribbean are catching Hell.
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BU would appreciate receiving the email address of the Director of the Child Care Board.
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David
How about at least giving those of us who are incoherent and lack the prerequisite comprehension skills an A for effort. Because let’s face it brother-man: this discussion is above and beyond the academic level, of people much like myself, who has trouble grasing the basic writing structure. I am grateful as well as honoured, to be on the same stage as some of these exceptionally gifted Bajan intellectuals. Who have in the past attended the schools of national -reputation, the very schools which prides themselves on academic-excellence. Lol
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My final point of the night is this: some white man( Moses Miamonides) who specialized in abstract-theory once said that: if you wish/want to understand a people, you must first study the laws and institutions which governs them. I am patiently awaiting the first female commissioner of police of Barbados. Good night.
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@ David[BU]
was this a freudian slip “who has trouble grasing the basic writing structure”?
Did the writer mean “grasing” or “grazing”?
“During the spring and summer the donkeys at The Donkey Sanctuary have access to restricted grazing. In addition to the restricted grazing our donkeys always have access to barley straw to ensure they are getting plenty of fibre to meet their nutritional needs.”
Sorry de ole man off topic again!!
GOD has a way of giving Male Chauvanist Pigs like us girl children or boy chilren with female characteristics.
A thing happens in that gift called life that we are fortunate to receive.
It has a way of making the fraternity of the menses slowly cease to practice the obvious disparities in wages, curtail privileges afforded to our male brethren and all the other obvious inequitable treatment meted out to the “fairer sex”
I still am not able to come quit to grips with this
mostly because at 5 ft 4 ins I is one of them short me crutch men that would get nuff licks by de different wumens but I am an ardent supporter of equal treatment and rights and if I was a big chest Earl Maynard I wudda probably be able to deal wis dat udder “shortcoming”
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Would not expect the barbadian male to agree with the arguments of the article. why? the mind set of the bajan male is still defined by antiquated laws which defined woman as mothers and sub servants and should be silent in those aspect of life where their opinions might cast doubt and lingering thoughts to upsurge or inflamed the male perceptions of reality.
Even though woman has been allowed to step on the stage which the male has owned and dominated there is a real sense that there presence is met with limited approval and issues presented in the article would continue as a forceful proponent of keeping woman under sub servant rules and guidelines dictated by chauvinistic perspectives,
Exhibit A the picture of the female bodybuilder another aspect of male chauvinistic disapproval. A lack of understanding and misguided antiquated definitions of where a woman place should be.
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Your right AC now if she could only sing nobody would be looking at RiRi.s body ever again.
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Piece
Someone needs to readjust the Barbadian male and males elsewhere in the Caribbean and beyond worldview. Old man I gine give yah a break becausing yah getting ready to be laid out for public viewing in the not to distant future.
In any event, I wish to make a quick analysis of two notable organizations in Barbados- which have been around prior to our nationhood. One being the Royal Barbados Mounted Branch and the other being the Royal Barbados Police Band…remove the ROYAL; we have come of age.
Now until quite recently, the Royal Barbados Mounted Branch has never had a woman in a position of influence as it does today. This organization has been around from the late to middle 1800’s, of which women have had membership for close to forty years.
Even more disturbing is the Royal Barbados Police Band, of which women have been active participants prior to the women in the Royal Barbados Mounted Banch. And yet of the five positions of influence in the Royal Barbados Police Band: the Director and his four Assistances, women aren’t even numbered amongst them.
Brothers there is obviously cause for concern here because if you comb through many if not most of the organizations in Barbados, I can assure that you would undoubedly see the same trend making itself heard.
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AC how does Exhibit A represent “another aspect of male chauvinistic disapproval. A lack of understanding and misguided antiquated definitions of where a woman place should be”?
If one is into body-building as a male one will certainly be impressed with the physique; that’s a lot of serious, hard work (regardless of the supplements and steroids used).
This lady is facial attractive but there are few heterosexual men that would find her sexual appealing.
That is not an image or role that many people expect of a female and there is certainly nothing antiquated or chauvinistic about that.
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Piece
Promoting a woman to a leadership position in the Royal Barbados Mounted Branch, does not by any stretched of the imagination appease the silent discontent of the Barbadian men and women of conscience. It is the first step on the road to realizing the idea of the woman’s autonomy, but there is certainly a lot of work yet to be done to make real, what appears to be wishful thinking from this far afield perspective.
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@ De Word,
You must forgive the idjit who is indeed the classic poster picture for “understandeth what thou readeth?”
I first sought to indicate that the ole man, a product of the Male Chauvanist Pig age, euphemism for patriarchal society, had come to a place of compromise that most of us MCPs arrive at when the offspring of our loins are females.
Ego wants our progeny to be the best.
Then I went on to say that I am one of those who welcomes this equitable compensation.
De ole man then went on to make a self deprecating remark about being 5ft 4ins and my having an innate fear for damsels who looked like the one who picture presented as Exhibit A.
If I were a Spartan or Ibo warrior who was not vertically challenged maybe my short me crutch self could be more accommodating.
I hope that the Blogmaster start administering that “literacy testing” that BU needs soon even the simple test of “Mary’s parents always name their children with a name beginning with an “A”. Her parents have five children “Ann, Anna, Annabelle, and Aretha” what is the name of the last child? Please explain how you have arrived at this conclusion?
De Ole Man sure that ** would not pass the test and they like Asinus would not be allowed to comment here
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@ De Word
You see what I mean?
No sooner than you speak of one Asinus Completus that the other Asinus starts to bray…
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Piece
The distorted view of the woman stretches as far back as from Plato and Aristotle, and perpetuated with the misinterpretation of the Hebrew Scriptures as it relates to the role of the woman in the modern life. To press home this point one must take a closer look at the American Republican System of Governance- which has taken some of its ideas from the Greek thinkers the likes of Plato and Aristotle and British empircist thinkers like John Locke etc. So this distorted view of women in America was make real by these ancient ideas, when the male African slave was given the right to vote prior to the White woman with the enactment of Civil War Amendments of the 1860’s. The White woman had then to expend her blood, sweat and tears in the fight for her right to vote through the Women Suffrage Movemen- of which she won in 1920. The morale of the story is these: the woman has always been confined to these stereotypes and disease-thinking, irrespective of her ethnicity.
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@deigrunt
in reference to your assement in regards to the female body builder .i submit to u that the. female body builder is regarded as a woman who has crossed the lines of feminity and in that regards is protrayed as she/man trying to be recognized as a woman on equal physical and mental strength as her male counterpart which is a false assumption. often heard coming from the mouths of male chauvinist who are mentally illequipped and unprepared to accept th at at a time throughout history woman have been excellent wariors showing guts grits and unnerving resolve as the backbone for socities.
What woman are portraying today is not a new socially or culturally but a mental and physical strength that causes the male to shudder out of a fear to recognise women as their equal partners in what areaof life they crave or craft in their life,s journey
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Piece
I don’t know about you brother, but the figure standing before- which I do you have posted earlier- seems in my judgment to be a fine specimen of human form. Who happens to be clothe with the masculinity that is certain to arouse the curiosity of male of a certain psychological-profile.
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@pdyr posted that picture with a malicious intent to bait and unravalled the chauvaunistic wrath of the male species who arguablly would gaze upon with disdain and puerile disgust.
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waiting for bush shit appearance armed with hus sharpened bushwhacker to peel back every later if the female bodybuilder anatomy and dissect resulting with a lecture as to why this female bodybuilder is unworthy of equality and her physical appearance is of a demonic control
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Even a serious blog about the plight of women must be hijacked.
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well speckeld fowl i do not know or to whom u are referencing u comments expect to the idiots comments and drivel by donna and pacha..in any case no subject matter should be off limits in the vein of dealing with woman,s equality be it of physical or mental attributes. by trying to lay out a table to dictate permissiabilty is judgemental and asinine on your part.apparantly u live in a well preserved cocoon far removed from the outside world and u have no shame in on occasion coming out for a bit of fresh air allowing others a chance to peep in
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Ac, the latter part of your statement is de bomb girl. Couldn’t help but ball-down the four corners of this bedroom, located in the epicenter of this concrete jungle some call de States or better yet, Hell on wheels sista.
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Boy, it’s only when sit one a city bus in America, that he/she gets to understand the importance of good education, or an education for that matter. Piece, knows what I am talking about; I heard he remarked that he used live in Hell… Oh sorry de states for spell.
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@Felicia
We know you follow your blogs, why not share your personal experiences of what women experience in the Caribbean. Which of the islands do you think are further along and we can hold up as a model.
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Again shame on you speckled fowl for requeting Ms. browne to share her experiences throughout the Carribbean in regards to woman,s equality here once again you have exposed your naivette on such matters by letting the bu classroom overhear your ignorance and lack of knoweldge that has been in focus for more than a thousand years.yet instead of allowing a difference of opinion to shed moe light and refocused u try to slam the door shut in faces. or what it is worth on your next break take a look outside your corridor and evaluate how many women are in high level positions through out the carribbean in comparison to men ..then ask u yourself a pertinent question ..Why
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Thine hignorance knows bounds.
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When one take a look at the unequal divide for women in the carribbean , the difference between men and women for fair play is staggering, take domestic violence, uncontrollable ! a societal problem which decimates household leaving children motherless, yet this problem is never given real concern along the lines of good governance where budgetary needs are necessary to address and attack the social and psychological parameters , It is only on those occasions when a murder has occurred one would hear voices asking the usual questions ….a question which is never asked are why are woman in these modern times living under these mental and psychological barriers which gives them no alternative course one cannot overlooked or rule out one of the main causes is financial which keeps them trap inside a world of pretense believing things would get better,
another question, So what role should govt play in helping to reset or refocus the mentality of potential victims for a better life,,..a social plan or a network of specialized trained field workers whose job would be to address the needs of these woman introducing programs for self help and a thorough follow up on these cases before disasters happens,
so what about the root causes and how does equality play a relevant role in domestic violence… equality does not mean only that of having an equal pay scale or defined by race or gender ( although important) it is also a fight for the preservation of a woman.s right by laws introduced with greater emphasis on social planning …laws that not only scratches the surface but ones which removes and refined the mental as well as the psychological barriers while making sure that a woman has a dignified and recognizable life without having to succumbed at the hands by violence .
In a world were woman.s right are preserved society comes out the winner
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@ ac June 6, 2015 at 6:20 PM
“In a world were woman.s right are preserved society comes out the winner”.
May I suggest to you that instead of saying ‘woman’s or women’s rights’ you should simply say: ‘In a world where an individual or human rights are preserved, society comes out the winner’.
Can you identify at least one law, Constitutional or otherwise, which discriminates against women in Barbados? How can there be discrimination against women when at least 70% of university graduates are female? What percentage of females make up the teaching profession both at the formative stage (primary) and finishing stage (secondary) in the local educational system?
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miller go back where ever u were, it is obvious you were locked away in some dark room for too long and is oblivious of a reality that Barbados is not the world and Woman rights worldwide have been trampled and fought against for thousands of years, your knuckled head comment laden with political drivel is not one of surprise and goes to the heart of perception with an application to give the “wanton ” effect
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AC you are amusing… and here amusing is the nicest way to say that it appears that you speak simply because you can rather than to really provide any details or information.
So one small piece of information.
You said: “… for requeting Ms. browne to share her experiences …in regards to woman,s equality here once again you have exposed your naivette”.
But the original post was by Ms. Browne, thus that response to the moderator’s further invitation to her is exposing your full fledged stupidity.
You will likely interpret the old saw about the pot calling the kettle black as being racist towards you – it’s not racist dear AC – but nonetheless you are the BU pot: You speak generally with nary any logic or depth of thought and yet you are quick to cuss others for their practical remarks.
You are like GP and just making mock sport on the blog. Steeupse!
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HA! HA! HA! ,,now you can take your assessment of my comments and stick them where the sun does not shine,frankly speaking i don’t give a damn, your interpretation is yours but you have no way of explicitly knowing what i meant, amusing though it might be to you,
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LOL
It is precisely because of idiots like AC that women find themselves discriminated against…
Now tell Bushie what the hell any reasonable man would do if, God forbid, he were to awake one morning and find someone like AC beside him…
Discriminate against her donkey!
Um is people like her who cause Moslem men to cover them from head to toe in black, make them walk behind QUIETLY, and in the more enlightened countries … ban their tails from driving…
….of course a fellow could also avoid all that stress …and just move to Arizona and leave her tail here in Froonbados…. LOL ha ha ha
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@ bush sh,ite u ole boar it is idiots like Ac who keep wunna loud mout and domineering men frightened as shite,, u get up in the BU class room with the rest of the male chauvinist pigs including the principle David and oppose everything ac say, wunna real wicked and devious on a witch hunt to discredit and humiliate with a snobbish self serving approach to stop the dominance of the female male power, but this ac come high wind or thunder storm never gonna let wunna chauvinist win,
look at u having no shame or guilt to support the evil and conniving doctrines of the moselm world used to suppress women
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Women blame your problems on the ‘New Kid on the Block’ Christianity. For it was male christian chauvinists who replaced the Woman with the Holy Ghost hereby diminishing the vital role you played in this big Cosmic Game. Without the WOMAN the child couldn’t get here. So women know that you are VESSELS that MUST be honoured but this honour has to start with self.
Having said that I must say…………….
Women have always been working. What’s so special about today’s breed? You are NOT
more intelligent than those who travelled that way before you, like those who truly did hard labor to build today’s physical society. You think that because you go to his shoal, get his ‘degree’ that that qualifies you as intelligent. You’re out there in the market competing with men as if you are a man. Some folk with a sinister agenda put you up to believing that you are equal with a man. NO you are not on a par with him. The reason why so many women have entered the work force is to bring about the planned destruction of the family unit as a whole. Women you are chasing that ELUSIVE dream and you’re never gonna catch it. You want to level the playing field with an equal pay scale? Where are your male children? Why are they lost when they are primarily ‘nurtured’ by US women. After birthing you drop that ‘kid’ off at daycare and hustle back to the plantation, just at the pivotal point when that child needs you. Where’s your motherly instinct to nurture that child? Has it been bred out of you thru ‘education’ and women’s lib? And today so many of you don’t even breast feed those children, the very essence they need at that tender age.
Show me one woman on the world stage today that a young girl can emulate…….
The controllers are shoving trash like Hilary the Hun down our throats. Who can verify that ‘she’s’ even a woman in the true sense of the title when she ‘screws’ more women than Bill. You can even smell all those dead bodies on this ‘witch.’ Look at Susan Rice, that Vicky Nuland bitch…just look at those women and now enter the stage Loretta the Lynchmobster. Are these women to emulate? Why are they are so eager to be as nasty and murderous as their male counterparts? Is that truly what womanhood is about?
Women after you get a bigger paycheck what will you do with it? WIll you help uplift your sisters or will you wave it in their faces to taunt them at your arrival in the ‘uppity bitches club.’
All over the US these so-called ‘highly-educated high achievers’ complaining and attributing the reason for them being man-less to men being intimidated by their success and that they’re strong black women..this shite is so laughable. Look at the men in the US they’re leaving and going to the other Americas to find women..real women who know how to love respect and honour them. Women who won’t emasculate them. So ‘my highly educated achievers’ the joke is still on you.
You talk about laws to protect you against sexual harrassment…another damn joke. Sometime its difficult to distinguish whether or not these women are going to the ‘technological plantation’ or the hoehouse. You go to work with your breast and ass literally in the men’s face and the only reason you do this is to get attention and then when you get attention you complain about hassarrment…..go find some other dead horse to flog.
You want equality, yet after you’re divorced you want to take the children and the majority of the men’s hard earnings that in many cases some of you didn’t even contribute to. How about turning the tables for a moment and give the children to the men and have him milk you till you die..how about that?
Most of the ‘high-paying’ jobs that you’re screaming are nothing but bloodsucking jobs anyhow…eg. banking, advertising. The society as a whole doesn’t really benefit from them.
Women maybe if you get back to your true selves of nurturers, take care of your families, stop competing with the men, with each other and yourselves then we can bring some balance back to this world. Look at your children, you’ve left them up to this satanic system which is sucking the very life out of them and in the end we have ourselves to blame.
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@Hopi
Yours is a serious commentary and merits ventilation. Agree for the most part what you have posited. Women are not equal to men and to guard the rubric of a wholesome society must of necessity play a role which only a female instinct and innate traits bring to the table. The issue raised often times is confused with equal pay for women to do the same job as a man. We can debate whether women should be working certain jobs which threaten the family unit.
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Here is Ice T’s view on the pussification of the male.
http://newsninja2012.com/rapper-ice-t-manhood-is-dead-youre-dealing-with-the-pussyfication-of-the-male-sex/#.VW7yQU47zbc.facebook
On Sunday, 7 June 2015, Barbados Underground wrote:
>
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@pieceuhderockyeahright June 5, 2015 at 10:53 PM ‘GOD has a way of giving Male Chauvanist Pigs like us girl children.”
Indeed. The more aggressive a man is the more likely he is to have daughters. Just mother nature doing her homework to reduce the number of aggressive men.
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@David June 7, 2015 at 10:24 AM “@Hopi…Yours is a serious commentary and merits ventilation.”
No David. Hopi’s nonsensical rant is not serious comment and no it does not merit a response.
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David I agree with Simple Simon, so you must break out the nuggets of Hopi’s commentary that are “serious commentary and merits ventilation”.
Let’s take one comment such as “…. get back to your true selves of nurturers, take care of your families, stop competing with the men, with each other and yourselves then we can bring some balance back to this world”.
After the first several months of a baby’s life when breast feeding and that nurturing process is paramount to the child’s best growth why is the impact of the missing women more than the male in taking care of the family?
Competing with men is a work metric so there is surely nothing wrong with that.
A husband and wife competing on family and social issues is absolutely ludicrous and will certainly lead to a failed marriage so that can’t be the thrust of the point.
I agree that the question of female single parent households is a valid concern but a lot of blame for the falls as squarely on the male as the female.
So pray explain David what are the factoids of merit in the blogger’s piece. Do let’s all discuss.
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Hopi talking crap.
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@Dee Word
Men and women in our view were meant to play different roles nurturing and protecting the family unit. We can agree to disagree, we know this is an emotive subject.
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David, you will find no disagreement with me on your fundamental point that “Men and women in our view were meant to play different roles nurturing and protecting the family unit”.
With that as the profound truism of merit we should be able to build on that and accept that the family unit can be properly developed as long as both the male and female work with great effort to complete their roles.
So whether it’s the man or woman who is the main bread winner, or both are equally compensated or one is the stay-at-home parent success is guaranteed with that focused duality of purpose.
The problems start of course when that duality is not in place.
The average male can’t look past the fact of his expected tole as the leader of the pack at home and work thus any other role causes him to be disruptive and conjure up a male-centric thesis that can’t withstand any objective analysis.
Apart from physically demanding jobs (construction, mining, oil riggers, loggers, front line soldiering, to name a few) where does a female’s mental or physical abilities make them less capable than a man?
And apart from our basic physical inability to produce a baby’s milk where does a male’s mental or physical abilities make us less capable than a female to provide a dominant nurturing role successfully?
Don’t worry about the emotion…leave that for those who as a blogger said love to quarrel and not discuss.
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@Dee Word
Have you ever observed animals in the wild and how the care and nurture the family unit? One thing you observe is the specific role the female plays, there is never compromise. What we have with the human form is a specific role required by nature shapes by economic considerations which are man made. The type of society we live in today will never encourage consensus on this issue :-)”
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this gender role issue has and would always be a red herring throw out to block to confuse and to deliberately undermine the goals of equality for woman in and out of the work place, This issue is NOT about gender role but laws designed which have block woman and denied woman equality in the workplace
What hopi wrote is a text book case of frothing at the mouth after years of being schooled by a society who thought it best that a woman’s role is exclusively that of motherhood .
Woman today has closed that door proving that there can be homemakers and carry the load of being providers ,
The analogy brought to table by those like hopi minds are trapped in a hot bed of delusion and low self esteem and quick happy to be living in a world were the status quo made decisions to shut out and call all shots
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Hopi is in a different class on this topic ..so it is only natural that those of limited insight would disagree….
Anyone analysing the RESULTS in our world can the validity of Hopi’s analysis..
The great designer created men and women to play different and complimentary roles in a common objective…
Anytime something designed for a particular role is forced to operate in a different role we know that stresses and strains are multiplied …. with inevitable critical failures.
@ David
Most of us have NO appreciation of the value of things like family…..and thus the true value of women. Most brass bowls are focused on the white man’s values of money and material possessions, and they seek these at ANY cost…including that of family, relationships, love, respect and peace of mind…
Real brass bowls…..
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D Ingrunt Word June 6, 2015 at 9:13 PM #
“AC you are amusing… and here amusing is the nicest way to say that it appears that you speak simply because you can rather than to really provide any details or information.”
“You speak generally with nary any logic or depth of thought and yet you are quick to cuss others for their practical remarks.”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A very good assessment, D Word. But what do expect from these idiots who like to comment on EVERY issue presented to BU for discussion, when it is clear they have no knowledge of the subject, verified by the comments they make?
It there any condition known as “blog addiction?”
Sometimes it’s better to reserve your comments specifically for issues with which you are familiar, rather than trying to be a “know it all” and expose your ignorance to matters that are beyond you.
Hence, the ACs’ comments are, more often than not, generalized statements “with nary any logic or depth of thought”, while politicizing every topic by making them a BLP versus DLP issue. Their low level of intelligence is often exposed by the “written abuse” they unleash on other contributors, which displays their immaturity and has become very sickening.
For example, “millertheanunnaki June 6, 2015 at 7:16 PM #” comments, there was no political content therein, yet these idiots described his contribution as “your knuckled head comment laden with POLITICAL DRIVEL is not one of surprise and goes to the heart of perception with an application to give the “wanton ” effect……”
Does this make any sense?
The other two, Fractured BLP and NationBLPnewspaer are no different. If BU’s topic is “Catching Flying Fish”, FB will always refer to Mottley’s sexual orientation, while NBLPN will continue to buy a Nation just to contribute same shiite about the Nation’s columnists.
Essentially, members of an organization are often reflective of that organization’s structure or culture. FB, NBLPN and the ACs are reflective of the Democratic Labour Party. So we now know why Barbados is in shiite street with these bunch of “wild boys and girls” pretending to be politicians.
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so there we have it riht from the asses mout bush shite..
Nobody wants to deal with the reality just the usual talking points of gender role.Nobody wants to face the fact that woman were forced in to the job market because of men who had abandon their role as providers and heads of household. resulting with women having no choice but to enter the job market to find that certain benefits like equal pay and job promotions were denied .this male selserving episode of wanting to tarnish and scapegoat woman is driven by guilt and an overreach to blame working mothers for a break down in the family structure and all of society ills and allbut disassociating the keepers of the gate the fathers who had abandoned family and forceably leaving women with no choice but to enter a world of male domaninance who role was to put up barriers and roadblocks of denial and inequality for women
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What man would not abandon something like you AC..?
Bushie would have gone to the Sahara to escape you …not just Arizona… 🙂
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Some problems cannot be solved.
On 8 June 2015 at 12:26, Barbados Underground wrote:
>
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David, if we really want to, yes this particular Mars-Venus problem can be solved.
Your animal kingdom analogy was interesting. You know well that the head male Lion manages his pride by dint of power until he is usurped by a stronger, younger beast; there is the black-widow female spider who takes what she wants and summarily kills her male companion and the birds who nurse their young only so long before they turn them out from the nest – go fly and get your own food or die.
We the animals with powerful brains actually synthesizes all those characteristics and more in our various family units.
So there is no going back David. To accept anything less than an equal role for women – a proper synthesis of the various behaviors in the animal kingdom – is impossible.
The AC got it bang-on above (OMG, hooray). They said many women have been FORCED to take on a dominant role because of some of our male ineptitude.
If by our omissions we forced them to step up outside the home then naturally we should be stepping-IN to balance that missing element. We, the rude boy, multi- children absentee father males, can’t be the villains and then cry victim-hood too.
Yesterday you cited a piece from Ice-T re ‘pussyfication’ of men. That article was amusing. Rappers who demonize, sexualize and minimize women in their songs…who call them hoe, bitch and piece of meat in their regular speech…who want to bed as many of them as possible actually finding voice to speak about a lack of strong men. Fuh real!!!
That sir is the problem.
To act like Tupac or Eminem or the others regarding their songs and actions towards women is absolutely not being a strong man.
Strong men treat their women with respect. When we get that right then we can really start to solve this problem
So in that sense I do agree with you: Some problems cannot be solved, because the rappers’ narrative ‘control tings’ more than we would want to admit.
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When AC calls me an idiot I take it as a compliment of the highest order. My concern would be aroused if she thought otherwise for reasons obvious to most persons here, I’m sure.
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Why does the male dominated society in Barbados always tend to do everything half-assed.
You are issuing government bonds that are supposed to benefit the society as a whole; ok, that’s fine, but make sure the usual greedy suspects are not the ones benefitting the most by hogging up all the damn bonds.
You know who the greedy suspects are, they have been in Barbados and practicing greed for decades, limit them to a certain amount of bond they can purchase, so that other people who have never had a chance to do, can now invest their money in these bonds…how hard is that?
Dompey….I am glad you see the light, a lot of greedy men learned their greedy ways from their greedy fathers, children live what they learn; in saying that too many females who were mislead for many decades also mislead their sons.
We can even go further and say that the british system designed in savagery and greed but dressed up as civility did not help the situation; but, there is no excuse in 2015 for that level of greed to be still so persuasive on the island, after all, they keep boasting of being the most educated, right?, the most everything….now, the most greedy….lol
AC….suck up the abandonment talk, it’s good that women were forced to be independent, you can’t have it both ways, women are practical, if not there would be more world wars….and at some point in time, they will reclaim there rightful place as rulers of the world and not warmongers, not even the Bushman or Dr. Love can stop that one…..lol.
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@Dee Word
It appears from your writing you trivialize the role of maternal and paternal in the nurturing of the family unit. This is where we differ in the argument. Your analogy located in the primitive world.
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And in all seriousness, please do not let us forget that although females work and have high paying jobs after successfully breaking through the glass ceilings, there are still too many instances where their males bosses believe that these females should also give up sex in exchange for keeping jobs, particularly the low paying jobs.
In some cases these females are even better qualified than their male counterparts but were still being victimized and seen only as blown up sex dolls, I can call many cases where sexual harassment lawsuits were brought against big name companies in the US and they had to pay out many millions.
But, since it will still take many decades for B’dos to reach the stage where the males would be scared to use sex as a weapon, no one on here can tell me that it is still not prevalent on the island.
Remember dudes, I am not looking for love on BU, I have all the love I need, so suck it up…lol
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@ Well Well
..what “male dominated society” are you talking about…?
Barbados?
ha Ha Ha ….LOL
…don’t mek sport…
..we live in an oestrogen driven society
..whether it is natural or administered via soy and other unnatural means…
What do you think explains the lotta effeminate sissy behaviours …and the lack of genuine leadership…
Women are vital and powerful partners who are CRITICAL for any hope of a successful society, but ……so are men….
Our society is suffering from a lack of men…
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Both sexes are to blame for every ill in our society. We need to stop this men versus women craziness and realize that we have created this mess together and we will only get out of it together. Why does everything have to be a power struggle? When we fight each other we actually lose power not gain it. In the animal kingdom all the shenanigans are about the survival of the species. Our shenanigans seem to be about obliterating our kind from the face of the earth.
I have always felt myself to be the equal of man but that doesn’t mean that we are designed to fulfill exactly the same role. We are not the same, generally. There are some things men in general do better than women. There are some things that women in general are better equipped to do. This is obvious. For example, a women’s anatomy dictates that she must be the one breast feeding the baby. This suggests to me that she should be the one playing the more nurturing role with the father offering support of all kinds necessary. This does not preclude her from fulfilling other roles in the workplace when the child no longer needs her undivided attention. Children cannot raise themselves. When we decide to become parents we must make sacrifices to properly raise our children We cannot have it all. Sometimes what we consider to be all is really leaving us with nothing.
But, I digress. Ha ha, ac! I believe the thread was about men and women and pay equality in the workplace.
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Did any of you see the front page of Nationnews ?
Then there is this.
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@D Ingrunt Word June 8, 2015 at 6:19 AM “mining, oil riggers, loggers, front line soldiering, to name a few) where does a female’s mental or physical abilities make them less capable than a man?”
So how many men in Barbados work as miners, oil riggers, front line soldiers (if soldiers please name the war, with dates. Thanks)
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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@D Ingrunt Word June 8, 2015 at 11:03 AM “The AC got it bang-on above (OMG, hooray). They said many women have been FORCED to take on a dominant role because of some of our male ineptitude.”
Male ineptitude wuh. Why you got to dress it up and make it sound pretty for?
You mean wuffless men who won’t support their children, financially, emotionally, spiritually or in any way at all.
If every man in Barbados would support his children financially, emotionally, spiritually we would have very few problems.
That and increase the maternity leave to 6 months, so that young mothers can nurse their children…but no we would rather talk nonsense rather that do something practical.
GIVE EVERY MOTHER OF A NEW BORN SIX MONTHS WITH FULL PAY.
But we the people, and we the political parties, both “B” and “D” would rather talk shite.
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Edmonton (Canada) (AFP) – Outgoing FIFA president Sepp Blatter sent his good wishes as the 2015 Women’s World Cup kicked off on Saturday with hosts Canada playing Group A rivals China in the opening game.
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Just before the match, the 79-year-old Blatter wrote on his Twitter account: “In one hour, the 7th @FIFAWWC starts in Edmonton. Good Luck to all 24 teams. #CAN & #CHN play opening game. #FIFAWWC.”
The biggest tournament in the history of the women’s game opens with FIFA mired in corruption allegations that threaten to overshadow the four-week event.
FIFA secretary general Jerome Valcke had been due to attend the opening ceremony but cancelled on the eve of Blatter’s shock announcement that he would step down as president.
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An observation of little note perhaps but the teenager(s) currently being highlighted in the US media, who can recall what was being shouted?
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David, trivialize in what sense? Sometimes you are too succinct and I d not grasp your proper meaning. So correct me if I err..
My location in the primitive world was too highlight the point you originally made re the animal kingdom and how the male and female interact. My examples depicted that even in the ‘ordered world’ of those animals there is great variance of male/female/family unit processes.
Scientists have chronicled incidents of same sex relations with animals and of course there are many instances of different animal species forging ‘relationship’.
So I was highlighting that with our complex thinking we have in effect synthesized all of that of the animal kingdom.
As I said, no dispute re the role of females and males and their dual responsibilities to nurturing but I have a definite disconnect with the argument that the role of the woman is absolutely or primarily in the home and her removal from that locus is the alpha for the dysfunction of the family unit.
How can the female be the principal one at fault? Makes no sense to me.
In very simple terms, if that is true then realistically why do lioness hunt and can survive with their cubs sans the big male? Why do animals have a definitive mating season and then thereafter some females can often care for the cubs/young sans the male?
We can be smarter that the primitive animals but yet they can get a better handle on raising their off-spring than we do.
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@Dee Word
Why are men built to be stronger physically. What did the BBE intend. How is the physical strength accord with the ecosystem. Where does the mental capacity of males and females fit into the equation. The man made construction of economics – how do we make it work to optimum. No absolutes.
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@ De Ingrunt Word June 8, 2015 at 5:12 PM
“In very simple terms, if that is true then realistically why do lioness hunt and can survive with their cubs sans the big male? Why do animals have a definitive mating season and then thereafter some females can often care for the cubs/young sans the male?
We can be smarter that the primitive animals but yet they can get a better handle on raising their off-spring than we do.”
You have now been appointed our resident zoologist, DIW (LOL!!). Desmond Morris would be proud of you with David Attenborough singing your praises. The human female, outside of their closest relatives the bonobos, is the only known species of mammal that rely so heavily on nurturing and raising the offspring.
All the other bloggers (except Donna to a great extent) are looking through ‘unscientific’ prisms and are basing their contributions and arguments on cultural pedestals primarily the one of Westernized Judeo-Christian influences.
Don’t you find it passing strange that none so far has made reference to the role of the woman in Islam-dominated communities.
What is Felicia Browne’s position on the state of the women in Islamic societies, especially those of the fundamentalist type under full Sharia law? Or does she see them, not as sisters, but servants to men as ordained by Allah?
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@ millertheanunnaki June 8, 2015 at 5:38 PM
“The human female, outside of their closest relatives the bonobos, is the only known species of mammal that rely so heavily on nurturing and raising the offspring.”
Should read: ‘The human female, outside of their closest relatives the bonobos, is the only known species of mammal that rely so heavily on MALES for the nurturing and raising the offspring.’
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De Ignorant one is trying its hardest to refute what I said while hiding behind David. Hey you, be bold enough to take the words I put up there and turn them on their head and refute everything I stated since you have this need to DISagree with me. You’re trying to negate the statement about nurturing and breastfeeding by questioning the male vs female impact in the caretaking of the family. “After the first several months of a baby’s life when breast feeding and that nurturing process is paramount to the child’s best growth why is the impact of the missing women more than the male in taking care of the family?” Its u who stated that correct? I’ll give you the answer…STRUCTURE denotes FUNCTION. A woman’s was built to nurture and this nurturing begins in the womb. Does a MAN have a womb? Men are builders of the society, you build it the women will take care of it. Man = Manual and all that comes with that. Capiche?
Furthermore said entity wants to disCUSS and not quarrel. How long have you people been discussing? Didn’t that present administration disCUSS with the duped who voted them in to office all their plans to give them the moon? Weren’t the people euphoric with this new party and all the promises they disCUSSed? And how happy are the voters today after all this disCUSSion. You sit and disCUSS with the polieticians and as soon as you turn your back they stick a tax up damn arse and what do u do…..pay the tax while complaining and having more DISCUSSION. The time for DISCUSSION is over.The polieticians in Barbados are no more than a buffer between you, the Proles and them, the Controllers. The politiecians jobs is to disCUSS with you to give you the impression that you are included whereas they take orders from the Controllers. Discussions are for wusses and those who want to be loved. Discussions have never gotten the proles anywhere. Its time to start swinging. Politeness and pretty manners be damned. All over this western world politicians are carrying out the orders from their masters and I see that Barbados is no different.
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Miller
What is Felicia Browne’s position on the state of women in Islamic societies, espicially those of the fundamentalist type under full Sharia-Law?
I can see those Islamic women, especially those of fundamentalist type under full Sharia-Law, flooding the borders of the United States and Europe in search of political aslylum. Has anyone taken the time to ask these Islamic women, if they’re contented with the lives they led? Instead of believing all of the propaganda that the western media pumps into our hearing nightly? Miller, the issue is bigger than Islam, but we have been slow in arriving at this unarmed- truth. Nevertheless, I am just curious as to what value-system you are employing to condemn Islam’s treatment of women? Surely not the west that has had a less than perfect record of the treatment of women? America for example: has held the woman in such low esteem, that it had allowed its enslaved Black male to vote on the national level a hundred years prior to the White woman. And here is another fact that will shock your pants off: Prior to the late 1800’s in America, it was quite legal as well as common for a husband to beat his wife as he would a child because the wife was viewed as the property of the husband. I could go on and on and point to the mistreatment of women on both sides of these ancient civilizations, but what difference would it make to you and I? Just look at Islam as a work in progress, that hasn’t reach the moral landscape of the west, as for as the treatment of women are concern.
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Miller
Here is another fact that is sure to cause you to void in your pants: the American-Constitution was written with no consideration whatsoever -regarding the Rights of women and minors.
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Hopi stop talking bull shite and even if all you say is true about a woman,s role , that does not discredit the crux of the article in that as woman went in the job market some as head of households through no fault of their own there were denied the same benefits afforded to men, Your asinine interruption and delusional interpretation with a need to place blame on woman lacks commonsense and an unawareness of the times we are living.
What must a woman do if she has to provide for a family.The times that we live in dictates direction however direction if not harnessed becomes like a wild boar charging at every thing in its way and out of control
Hopi you need to get past those times when woman were told that they are baby makers and homemakers,
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Hopi, there was no intent to hide from anything!
But just as you have your absolute right to come to BU swinging and being robustly antagonistic in your remarks please allow me the right NOT to get into that unnecessary mode with you.
“Men are builders of the society, you build it the women will take care of it. Man = Manual and all that comes with that. Capiche?” you said.
What is capiche is that life evolves and different circumstances require different thinking. Dinosaurs are extinct for a reason.
It has not dawned on you apparently that there are many important aspects of life today that absolutely do NOT require MANual labor and thus it would be rather myopic to restrict any role to men specifically and thus restrict yourself from getting the best results.
Which sensible leader will do that!
We accept that a baby spends a significant period in the womb but to develop into a complete person the baby will require “nurturing’ from both the female and male over time so for you to opine that the womb-time makes the mum somehow absolute in the continued growth of the child makes no practical sense to me.
There is a time to fight and quarrel surely, but here with you is certainly not it
Carry on smartly.
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A lot of our miseducation regarding women actually sprung from the Pagan philosophers of the Western Intellectual Tradition. Take Lycurgus for example: he was reputed to be founder of the Constitution of Sparta, he decreed for his countrymen the honorable practice of giving the use of their wives to those whom they should think fit, so that they might have children by them for purposes of breeding strong men and soldiers, or simply as an accommodation. Plato, on the other hand wrote that: women are by nature common property. Emanual Kant, believed that women weren’t fit for the vote because of their nature as a childbearers. And this unfortunately, is where the Framers of the American Constitution have gotten many of their ill-ideas regarding women from, when their were in the process of constructing the American Republican form of governance.
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And we still have some men in the year 2015, who still believe that women ought still to be chained to the kitchen sink and de stove indefinitely. These pack of breadfruit-swappers according to AC, need to be injected with a lethal dose of reality.
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Igrunt….What’s the reason dinosaurs are extinct? And with the greater agenda afoot some are looking to make MEN extinct as well but I as a wombman would NEVER have that. We NEED our men in more ways than one. Don’t worry about my robust antagonism sugar, ( kinda get the feeling that you have some in ur tank too).
NB I said “Manual AND ALL THAT COMES WITH THAT.” I’m in no way imposing restrictions on any one. I’m quite aware of the other forms of labour that’s bringing about ‘spectacular development’ and ‘civilization’ today.
Where did I opine that womb-time makes women somewhat ABSOLUTE….?
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Hopi, I have never once thought of my wife or any other woman as beneath me, irrespective of what Religion, philosophy, mythology, secular-humanism, or any other ologies for that matter endeavors to advance. I wash cook and clean in my household and could care less what others do in their. I was never the conformist type and will never be and shall always remain the intellectual -rebel type like the great Pagan Moralist Philosopher Socrates.
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Men and women are made/created differently and for different duties. If women want to be equal to men even in the work place, maybe we can made them equal in everything. Let them line up against Bolt, Gay, Blake and company in the Olympics. There has always be different standards for male and female simply because females are not as strong as the men. Yes, there are some desk jobs women can do but there are many jobs women are not as capable as men. Maybe the next thing women would ask for is for men to have babies,
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@Dompeeeeeee! Where do you find time for such household chores when u are always on this blog?
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A lot of Neanderthal backward thinking losers both male and female writing sho,ite about those things which they do not understand, trying to be intellectual gurus swinging and swiping somewhere out of left field , How does one compare equality in the workplace to women wanting to be of the male gender :only god knows: but then again to win an argument one goes to the one line of defense introduction of speculations halftruths ,perceptions ,and misinformation.HA! HA! HA good one,
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@Dompey June 8, 2015 at 8:19 PM “Take Lycurgus for example…he decreed for his countrymen the honorable practice of giving the use of their wives to those whom they should think fit, … for purposes of breeding strong men and soldiers…Plato, on the other hand wrote that: women are by nature common property. Emanual Kant, believed that women weren’t fit for the vote because of their nature as a childbearers. And this is where the Framers of the American Constitution have gotten many of their ill-ideas regarding women from.
Then Lycurgus was an idiot.
And so was Plato.
And Emmanuel Kant.
And the Framers of the American Constitution.
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women has always been fighting for equal rights in and out of the home. there was a time when the man made a rule in the household the woman could not refute or ask question. to some here on bu that is called a man taking control of his home,while to others that is rule by the iron fist, out of the home woman had to fight for the right to vote, woman had to fight to be jurist policewoman Woman had to fight to be lawyers or doctors these were restricted roles specifically designed for men as there was this engrained concept that woman lacked the intelligence to pursue these professions in the same way men could have, In as much some would want to believe that those barriers have been fully broken especially going by the input of some comments on BU one got a glimmer of what some are thinking and believes that a women role should be that of a caretaker and any influence the women has should not go above or beyond any role of motherhood, Sufficient to say that there has not been one area in life where the male dominance has not shown little or no respect for the women intelligence,,
as i previously stated even in the home woman roles were limited and most of the decision making was done by the male who for (now) known obvious reasons believes that women did not have the brains to resolve those issues that did not entail the homemaking,
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Yep, the male species of mammals love to make up shit as they go along, particularly the one where they have most females believing that some dude who had to be drunk would even think of taking a rib from a male and carve out a female.
Yeah, I am still waiting for the male species to give birth to either a male or female child, yep, still waiting…..too much misinformation and outright lies over the centuries perpetrated by the male species of mammals, and we wonder why the world is so screwed up, the man-made world of lies, delusions and illusions that have wrecked the earth.
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