Rape is NOT Her Fault
Submitted by Felica Browne
Rape is not the fault of the victim. For many years, women and girls have been held responsible for the actions of their violators. In some cases, the victims are seen as contributors to the violent acts that they endured at the hands of their perpetrators. The social stigmatization associated with rape and other forms of violence towards women has left victims with very little choice — either to withdraw their complaints or remain silent about the crime. Victim blaming should stop if we are to make any progress on the rights of women and girls. The idea that a victim’s physical appearance or image contributes to her violation only signals a dire need for re-education on human rights.
Gender-based violence against women and girls is a human rights violation. It hinders their progress as citizens and human beings. They have the right to walk free from any form of physical or sexual violation or abuse. We must continue to speak out on behalf of women and girls, and ensure that their causes are brought to justice. Community members must play their role in protecting women and girls from perpetrators who may live within the same communities. We need to publicize the fact that there are local services for victims of sexual crimes which will assist them to manage and survive their traumatic experiences, and to do what we can to strengthen them.
The protection of the rights of women and girls should remain our key focus for legal reform and implementation. Human rights like any other rights are important for the social and economic development of our Caribbean societies.
Barbados Underground 
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I totally agree with Felica Brown 110% on what she said. The thing that bothered me was to hear men, and women saying:- “She asked for it from the way in-which she dressed.” That’s a crock of shit really. However she chose to dress doesn’t give anyone the right to RAPE HER.
I am sure that if the shoes were on the other foot. Meaning if it was a female from your family, you would be ready to kill that person. Or do them some serious harm. It’s time that both men and women STEP UP and let their voices be really heard on the RIGHTS FOR WOMEN. OUR WOMEN NEEDS TO BE TREATED WITH MORE RESPECT. EVERYONE DESERVES RESPECT.
Kick the old fashion way of thinking to the curb, how you feel about women. Some of them does things to gain the attention that they might not get at home. But this doesn’t mean that it’s right to exploit them in any way. But PROTECT them.
Brothers, when you look at any woman. Think about the woman who carried you for 9 months. And then gave birth to you. If you can abuse and, disrespect her. Then you are less than a real HUMAN-BEING who deserves nothing but grief in life, for as long as you live. But if you LOVE, and RESPECT her. The do the same for all WOMEN.
SHOW YOUR WOMEN MORE LOVE, RESPECT, UNDERSTANDING AND LESS CONTROLLING.
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A borderline case
X, a black man, takes a willing girl to a hotel room for sex. On the way he calls his friend, a white man. Both have sex with the girl and then leave.
The girl wakes up but can’t remember anything. The two men have been captured on CCTV cameras which also show that when the girl entered the hotel she was capable of walking independently and bending down in high heels without falling over.
Both men are charged with rape on the basis that they’d had non-consensual sex with the girl knowing she was so intoxicated she could not give consent.
The black man is acquitted; the white convicted.
A second borderline case
X takes a girl in his car. They have sex. A moment before the man ejaculates the girl says ‘No, no. I can’t.’ The man finds it impossible to withdraw and ejaculates ‘on the job’. He is charged with rape.
A third borderline case
Husband and wife are on good terms but haven’t had sex for a very long time. The husband returns home late after drinking with friends. The wife cuddles him and they go to bed. The husband says he wants sex but the wife says ‘No – you know very well your blood pressure is very high and besides it’s Sunday’. The husband says ‘bugger Sunday….besides what a way to go’. He forces himself on his wife who pleads ‘Darling, darling, no. I love you but think of your health. I’m in charge.’ Hub is charged with rape.
Cf. Same scenario but husband and wife are legally separated.
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Should an individual walk down a dark street in a neighborhood known for high crime?
On Thursday, 5 March 2015, Barbados Underground wrote:
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David
Any individual or just women? And do you mean ‘Is it advisable?’
I find it hilarious that within moments the ‘anti-white’ post attracted numerous stereotypical comments but this poor thing had none – and still has only three, two for me, one for you. What does that say about the mindset of your contributors – and can they ever save the world?
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Mr C
I do beg your pardon. David – four.
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Ross there are some topics which have been ventilated very thoroughly over the years and to which there may not be much to add which can advance discourse. That is my perspective on the limited palaver on this topic.
When can rape legitimately ever be the female’s fault. Never.
Lonely dark street; back of car on date, yes-no; husband and wife.
When? “No”, she said. “I don’t want to. Then it’s no. Never.
After that it’s up to you to plead the case for your client of the mitigating circumstances.
What more can we say about rape after all these years of parsing the laws, scandalizing the victims as whores and wanton women. And not simply accepting the fact that the only thing more heinous than murder and taking a life is raping and taking a women’s dignity.
What more really?
I don’t know what prompted this thread but I read of the situation which prompted the ‘anti-white’ comments. I personally have never heard of such a situation in Barbados before (the search and related watchman harassment) so there certainly was a lot that people wanted to say on that.
It highlighted a lot of issues we often don’t want to speak about too loudly.
Hope I am not being too pompous here, Ross.
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@ MR.C March 5, 2015 at 12:53 AM
“Brothers, when you look at any woman. Think about the woman who carried you for 9 months. And then gave birth to you. If you can abuse and, disrespect her. Then you are less than a real HUMAN-BEING who deserves nothing but grief in life, for as long as you live. But if you LOVE, and RESPECT her. The do the same for all WOMEN.”
Mr. C, I couldn’t agree with you more. As a matter of fact, I would up the ante and proffer 220% support for Felicia Browne’s position.
But before I put my money where my big mouth is let me ask you and “happy-looking” Felicia a searchingly naked question.
Don’t you think women have a right to do they like with their own God-made bodies?
And if you so agree, would you also agree that it is a monstrous perversion of women rights to prevent them from showing that same God-given body to whomsoever they please to show for pleasure or otherwise?
Do you also agree that these same women -some of them mothers with “fatherless” children to feed and living in a society where ‘traditional’ work is extremely hard to find for both women and men- have a right to earn a living as they see fit even if it by means of using their bodies the same way lawyers and politicians use the art of lying and stealing to put food on the table and send their children to higher educational institutions?
And if you so agree with the above rights of women what do you think about the arrest of those women found ‘peddling their art’ in the market for ogling men and women called the “Rehab Centre for the Sexually Different Minority”?
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@DeeWord
The issue here is not whether rape is right or wrong because the answer is obvious. Given the imperfections of humankind what practical behaviour sensible females should adopt to preserve the best quality of life.
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Frankly David, if a man walks down a lonely road that is known for crime and is mugged then he either defends himself or accepts the mugging. If his mugger decides to rape him too, then again he either fights if he can or if not he becomes a rape victim.
The same goes for a woman obviously.
Other than good common-sense in ALL SITUATIONS and the normal police protection of a society what ‘practical behaviour’ CAN there be for “sensible females …to preserve the best quality of life”?
Maybe each woman can learn self-defense or carry a molded fit-to-hand wire cutter – one of those really sharp ones.
Really, sir. What are you asking?
How can we manage behavior so individually to be good?
You might as well throw your energies to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as you’ll have just about the same result.
Futility.
Thus my original comment. What more to improve the problem can really be offered to a discussion of rape?
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Then rape will remain with us; a scourge, but a reality.
On Thursday, 5 March 2015, Barbados Underground wrote:
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DeeWord
What a wag you are…
five minutes on BU and it’s all been covered repeatedly. Nothing to say. Ergo….
but followed 36 lines of, well what?….nothing?
Now why don’t you address my borderline cases before pontificating universals.
BTW the fascinating subject you don’t want to “talk about too loudly” has been covered again and again and again and again and again and…on BU in one way or another….and it’s been all one way, one way, one way, one way, one way. There is no possibility of dispassionate discussion. To say, eg, ‘we don’t know the facts here, have only one side of a story, why did the watchman run’, as MoneyB, results only in howls of derision, the spectre of the KKK, and calls for white blood. Oh DeeWord do give over your jejune nonsense from Mount Nowhere. BTW….all this “Sir” stuff. Were you once a Bim politician riddled with ‘Mr Speaker Sir..Sir…Sir…Sir…’ disease?
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“Should an individual walk down a dark street in a neighborhood known for high crime?”
I guess the Delhi rape victim had it coming too right? I mean how dare that “wanton whore” dare to go do night classes to further herself as a nurse and then watch a movie late at night? The “bitch” should have stayed at home right? I guess the conductress on the route taxi who was gang-raped right here in Barbados had it coming too right? How dare she attempt to earn an honest day’s living.
Oh, and let’s not forget to bring in the usual cliched, false scenarios about drunken women and prostitutes going back to hotel rooms with white and black men. Because the only women who ever get raped are loose drunks and whores right?
And please remember to throw in a good dose of racial politics in the same rape scenario, because we all know that whenever a woman gets raped it’s really all about WHITE MEN and their poor little feelings right?
What a bunch of nasty, self-entitled jokers the white AND black men on this blog are. I guess we should all agree then that Trayvon, Eric Garner, Michael Brown, etc. all had it coming too right? I mean, if we use the same line of reasoning – which is that an individual – A WOMAN – walking down a dark street is just asking to be raped and dehumanized – then let’s apply the same reasoning to the murdered and dehumanized BLAC MEN that you all SO vociferously love to defend, and then also expect the same black women who are subject to rape to stand beside you and defend too, shall we: I mean what on earth was Trayvon thinking, walking in a WHITE upscale neighbourhood in a HOODIE??? Why didn’t he think to wear a three-piece suit and tie and stay out of that neighbourhood altogether? He must have been just begging for that bullet to his face, right?
I guess Eric Garner asked for it too. – I mean what was he thinking selling loose cigarettes in NYPD territory and then having the audacity to fight for his breath in the presence of white cops?
BTW, Felicia, thank you for your contribution and Mr. C thank you for your humane comments.
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Ross, I know you got my point so your ‘wag’ remarks is just you being you.
My point is the same as David: Rape is a scourge and unfortunately will be with us forever, because we have evil, bad people who will murder, maim and maraude and RAPE despite whatever is done.
Rape is a physical assault in every sense. How can we manage individual behaviour to prevent assault/ How?
What are so distinctly different about the scenarios you raised?
black man, takes a willing girl to a hotel room for sex. On the way he calls his friend, a white man. Both have sex with the girl and then leave…The black man is acquitted; the white convicted.
What is the point? Are you highlighting a matter of racial miscarriage of justice?
You are the lawyer. My layman view says that both could have been acquitted if the jury believed the lady was able to give full consent.
Apparently they thought she did NOT give any such consent to the white guy but likely intended to be intimate with the black guy by going to the hotel with him. What’s your point?
2.X takes a girl in his car. They have sex….
She said no. So technically its rape in the eyes of the law, I presume. You are the lawyer.
Were I on that jury I would NOT convict a based on your scenario. But I am sure others would. Your point?
3.Husband and wife are on good terms but haven’t had sex for a very long time. … ‘Darling, darling, no. …
Same as 2. The law likely says rape. DeeWord the juror would be inclined to convict here because the mere fact that the wife presses the case suggests that she must have felt totally helpless.
But you know what Ross, as inclined as I am to convict I would ACQUIT.
This man is not a ‘rapist’ as a threat to society. He was a horny husband who stepped over the line. He does not deserve to serve time in jail with hardened criminals and be a registered sex offender for life. No sir.
He needs to resolve this with his wife if he can and get his act together.
Again, what is your point as it relates to moving forward the question of rape and females in general, with these very specific matters?
And what is it with you and ‘SIR’.
I do hope you don’t have some demons in your earlier life which this dregs up for you. With that in mind I will STOP using it when chatting with you. No responsibility on my part.
See. I am a decent type of guy. Trying hard to get you to be one too.. Ok, s… almost!
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Nia, clearly you can read as you excerpted parts of what was said in order to make your points.
Can you please also explain how the words and context of:
“Frankly David, if a man walks down a lonely road that is known for crime and..his mugger decides to rape him too, then again he either fights if he can or if not he becomes a rape victim….The same goes for a woman obviously.
Other than good common-sense in ALL SITUATIONS and the normal police protection of a society what ‘practical behaviour’ CAN there be for “sensible females …to preserve the best quality of life”?
… How can we manage behavior so individually to be good?”
And: “What more can we say about rape after all these years of parsing the laws, scandalizing the victims as whores and wanton women. And not simply accepting the fact that the only thing more heinous than murder and taking a life is raping and taking a women’s dignity.”
Explain how you converted that to your remarks of :
” Should an individual walk down a dark street in a neighborhood known for high crime?…I guess the Delhi rape victim had it coming too right? I mean how dare that “wanton whore” dare to go do night classes to further herself as a nurse and then watch a movie late at night? The “bitch” should have stayed at home right? I guess the conductress on the route taxi who was gang-raped right here in Barbados had it coming too right?”
Is this the same level of selective thinking that gets us in situations of clear danger?
Amazing.
You have every right to be angry about rape but good lord…such mischaracterization and blatant lies to get to : What a bunch of nasty, self-entitled jokers the white AND black men on this blog are.
You are an interesting blogger.
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@DeeWord, I wasn’t referring to any of your comments. I was referring to the immediate tone that the comment section took which was mainly: “Men rape women. Now what should WOMEN be doing to prevent rape?” As if rape is the woman’s problem. And that the rapist man is simply an “imperfection of humankind.”
Excuse me, how about you start by teaching your SONS to be the “practical and sensible” ones and to curb their base instincts, you know, their IMPERFECTIONS and not to rape women and not to see women and girls as pieces of meat? I am absolutely sickened by this way of thinking that when men have the problem, it is women that have to self-regulate and correct their own behavior. And that it comes down to every single thing that the woman should or shouldn’t have done, while the men get a pass for their “imperfections”.
That’s why I mentioned the case of the Delhi rape victim. Now tell me, how much more “practical and sensible” did you want that poor young lady to be – other than locking herself inside the house 24-7 – in order to prevent what happened to her from happening? And then why not put the same pressure on male victims like the Trayvons, Michael Browns and Eric Garners to be “practical and sensible” because they were far from that, but that does not mean that they deserved to be killed.
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@Nia
Your concern was covered under the reference to the ‘imperfections of humankind ‘. There is a reality which sadly means women will always be vulnerable to rape until Utopia comes in the meantime what prevents a woman from taking a pragmatic approach? It will not work every time but there is taking common sense positions?
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Nia you are being a contortionist. Rather twisted positions.
The comments made by the moderator were simply rhetorical notes to highlight and generate the debate.
How can you take his words out of context juxtapose them with some of mine like “wanton whore” and make your claims based on that.
Both of us were signifying the scourge and depravity of rape.
Not one of the posts here minimized the role of the man in this predicament, at least none of those I read or wrote.
All I can say is that I have no male friends who rape and pillage or think about such things and all of them (me included) raise our kids to be righteous young men.
Rape is a terrible act against the female but it is caused by the same mental socio and psychopathic constructs which cause bullying, murder, assault and other crimes of physical violence.
The average man does not raise their sons to do those things no more than the average women raises her daughters to be criminals.
And no reasonable person blames a women for rape.
Please direct your anger where it needs to be as no one here is your enemy on this subject. And any who come will be vilified mercilessly.
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@ Nia March 5, 2015 at 3:40 PM
Nia, how about you making similar strident calls in the defence of men who are raped? Or don’t you believe such acts of violent sexual defilement happen to males?
If you do, then there might just be a modicum of gender equality to the whole despicable act of rape.
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Mob justice in action:
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2015/03/irate-indian-mob-lynches-rape-accused-150305174906211.html
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You do realize that this so-called rhetorical argument you claim to be making to “generate debate” is the EXACT same argument that the Delhi rapist who is now on death row made in a BBC documentary that aired this week, right?
Namely that rape is simply something that men will do and something that will happen to women, it’s a fact of life. So the onus is on women to jump through fire in order to prevent it from happening. Or if it does happen to them then it was because they didn’t exercise enough common sense.
Yep, your argument is right in line with a rapist and murderer’s.
And incidentally not one single word about what men should be actively doing to prevent rapes from happening. Sometimes it’s not what you say, it’s what you DON’T say.
I won’t even go into how absolutely offensive it is to refer to rape as simply “an imperfection of humankind” – have you ever been raped? It makes no difference how nicely you raise your sons, or how much you pay lip service to how terrible rape is. When you diminish rape through language like that all you are doing is reinforcing it as something normal. And yes, minimizing the role of the perpetrator.
Equally insulting is the insinuation that if a woman is raped she somehow did not exercise enough “common sense”. Do any of you even know any actual rape victims personally? You do realize that many, if not most, rapes don’t occur because women are drunk or walking down dark alleyways on their own, or inviting strange men into their homes right?
And let me state AGAIN:
When black men are being murdered by US law enforcement was the so-called rhetorical argument simply: This is an imperfection of humankind and black men need to be more “practical and sensible” until Utopia comes. No, the immediate argument is that it’s the NYPD, the LAPD, i.e. the PERPETRATOR that needs to change moreso than the victim, so please explain to me why the double standard?
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@Millertheannunki:
When women for centuries are being raped, sodomized, murdered and violated do men en mass speak up for women? No, by and large they remain silent or they BLAME women.
So when men are raped do you really think you as a man now have the moral authority to tell me that I should speak up for you? When you have never done the same for me?
I don’t think you are even particularly that concerned about men being raped. You are just trying to deflect from the fact that you just don’t really care that much about women being raped, it’s normal for you. Which is fair enough. But what then are YOU doing to prevent the equally heinous act of male-on-male rape? And you have no right to question how “stridently” I should react to this issue. This issue is a very personal one for me and I will debate it as stridently as I please.
Let me add though, that when men – in particular black men – are being murdered and otherwise violated by racist institutions, law enforcement. etc who is on the frontlines marching for them, standing up for them? BLACK WOMEN. Check Ferguson, etc.
Yet, this is seldom reciprocated when black women’s rights are violated.
Male entitlement and privilege really is a trip.
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@Nia
An irrational or shall we say emotional response?
On 5 March 2015 at 21:42, Barbados Underground wrote:
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@ Nia March 5, 2015 at 5:42 PM
I see where you are coming from.
An innocent male having a big black or white or even yellow or brown dick forcibly pushed up his un-lubricated asshole is no big thing in your books.
I wonder what you would have to say to Christian fundamentalist males who believe it is their God Jehovah-given right to rape women of other tribes or faith or captured in battle.
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DeeWord March 5, 2015 at 12:09 PM #
Frankly David, if a man walks down a lonely road that is known for crime and is mugged then he either defends himself or accepts the mugging. If his mugger decides to rape him too, then again he either fights if he can or if not he becomes a rape victim.
The same goes for a woman obviously.
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….ignorance has now stepped out of bounds,,
call the police there is a madman walking the halls of BU.
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millertheanunnaki March 5, 2015 at 6:11 PM #
@ Nia March 5, 2015 at 5:42 PM
I see where you are coming from.
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no you don.t
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@Miller, a straw man really? That’s the best you can do? @David, isn’t it interesting that a woman isn’t supposed to get emotional or bent out of shape concerning the issue of rape. But let a man get his car scratched, stolen or broken into and no one will question his right to be profoundly pissed off.
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@Nia
Tangent.
On 5 March 2015 at 23:41, Barbados Underground wrote:
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@ac March 5, 2015 at 6:21 PM….ignorance has now stepped out of bounds,,
call the police there is a madman walking the halls of BU.”—————-
Based on your interactions with Artax I am aware of your profound difficulty to exercise common sense so your ramblings here are not shocking.
Just surprised you are taking shots at me now.
Generally, it is a fool’s errand to take a phrase out of context and make assertions on what is being said.
So please proceed along smartly on your errand.
You have repeatedly shown your aptitude to be dense and as the wise man says to pervert commonsense.
Carry on smartly. You are running true to form here.
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@ Dee Worst
man if your above comment makes sense then common sense is a figment of your imagination,
you try to set high barriers but on this issue your barrier is broken.
the subject matter does not call for an analysis of a person putting themselves in harms way and becomes a rape victim but deals with the horrific offense done to person in most cases a female, your analogy reeks with insensitivity taking away the responsibility from the attacker and placing it on the victim
dumb a,ss.
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DeeWord
Your responses to my ‘not so hypotheticals’ demonstrate that universals – ‘Thou shalt not rape’ – are subject to qualification. The qualifications may turn on, eg, the distinction between what is justifiable and what is merely excusable. Thus: you can say, as you do, it is never justifiable to rape a woman (or a man in Bim). But you can also say ‘The circumstances when consent was refused or withdrawn to some extent may excuse the rapist’ – as, again, you seem to do.
In my three examples….
The first: google Ched Evans the footballer – like all my examples it exemplifies the point, inter alia, that rape is not just about cavemen using their dicks as clubs in the context of self-evidently physical violence or threats of it.
The second: would be rape (but in a narrow sense excusable)
The third: not rape in Bim nor across the CC though may be the offence (not in Bim) of ‘sexual assault’ as in TnT and Bahamas.
But – if the marriage has broken down (as where a decree nisi or separation agreement) would be rape in Bim.
Would be rape in UK in all circumstances though.
Now there are other ‘nice’ cases – eg where a man uses his position of authority to secure sex, eg student/teacher, priest/penitent, employer/employee. In Bim, if the relationship is of this kind, consent is negatived and would be rape. The idea is rooted in ‘imbalance’ – but of course it assumes that ‘power’ is all one way, that women are never voluble, educated and ‘power-over’ themselves. I think that that’s what Miller was referring to indirectly – and properly so too – for there are some women who use their ‘power over’ to put we poor fellas in a false position.
Consider the case of mothers setting up their under-age daughters for sex in return for financial support. What if the fella is told the girl is 17? You know today having a quick coffee somewhere I saw a girl I thought was around 13. I remarked how mature the girl was for her age – and she was. She was, I was told, 19.
Or again, consider whether to make distinctions between the use of inanimate objects and body parts (other than the dick) to penetrate (as in the case reported in today’s Nation) makes any sense at all. Yet that is what our Sexual Offences Act does.
On the nasty street…
I was very careful to ask David whether what he was suggesting was that it wouldn’t be advisable. I ‘m quite sure that what he was doing was back door raising the issue of the Hindu rapist – and properly so. Now for me, it would be absurd to say the rape would be (even) excusable in those circumstances. It would be like saying that if I wore a Crusader T shirt in a Moslem ‘no-go’ area, it would not be murder if an ‘offended’ Moslem chopped my head off. Would he have the defence of provocation?
A question that occurs to me is whether women’s campaigners want every-which-way. On the one hand, the ‘no rape’ universal seems to be rooted in the idea that women are weaker than men and shouldn’t be victimized. On the other hand, it’s about saying that women are not ‘objects’. In all the circumstances, the first may not be true. The second is equally true of men.
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Which reminds me to ask…was the Delhi rapist a Hindu (as I said because assumed above) or a subscriber to the ‘religion of peace’? I don’t remember the reports saying, which makes me wonder whether my assumption was the result intended.
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when it comes down to defining rape we are heading down dangerous territory ‘Rape” as defined simply saying NO or without giving consent or permission to having sexual intercourse
unlawful sexual intercourse or any other sexual penetration of the vagina, anus, or mouth of another person, with or without force, by a sex organ, other body part …
key word unlawful
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@ robert ross at 1:34 AM…Your responses to my ‘not so hypotheticals’ demonstrate that universals – ‘Thou shalt not rape’ – are subject to qualification.——————–
Very correct Ross. As an attorney you know better than I how the criminal justice system is so ‘complex’ that the many shades of grey criminalize some acts that should really not before the court of law.
The matter of rape is no different.
In my view society has gone too far east on some prosecutions of rape. Some cases are clearly not those of a predator but all about a situation that in the eyes of the law throws up one of those shades of gray. This one makes is an example.
A young man is at a party and has oral sex with a female. The matter is brought before the courts and he is convicted of rape/aggravated child molestation and sentenced to 10 years.
The male was 17. The female 15. The oral sex was consensual. But because of the particular statute in that particular state (Georgia) this kid (Genarlow Wilson) was convicted, labelled a rapist and tagged with the title of ‘sex offender’ for life.
The law has since been changed so no other teenager will suffer this; but too late for this young-man.
So, Ross I do agree ‘thou shalt not rape’ is indeed subject to qualification. The laws have been layered one on top of another to satisfy every nuance of sexual acts where there is any semblance of that power ‘imbalance’ and some of those laws cause as may problems as they attempt to resolve.
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@!dee worst
stop trying so hard to over analysis and provide a buffer whereby your thesis would indicate the accuser can be wrongly convicted,
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ac
OK there are no ‘shades’….it’s unlawful because it’s unlawful. Which – to be troublesome -is rather like your beloved De Peiza saying essentially yesterday that there’s no legal duty to pay Myrie – thereby betraying the trust owed to both Court and people who expect our politicians, and especially our Government, to act honourably in their international and domestic transactions and not like spoiled brats suffering from sour grape syndrome.
Let me give you this case.
Yes rape is the act of penetration be it ever so little (which leaves a man with an extra long foreskin in not so deep trouble). Fine.
The man penetrates and the girl enthuses….’oh that’s so wonderful”. Then she remembers she’s not married and will go straight to hell. She says ‘baby I can’t’. The man remains on the job for 20 seconds more and then withdraws. There is no fresh penetration since, like most on-the-jobness, the man does not repeatedly swing from a trapeze.
Is this rape?
DeeWord
I am entirely sympathetic to your example. I find those sorts of cases very sad.
One point – on a slightly different front and without prejudice to what I just said. You say the boy – for that’s what he was – had oral sex with the girl. Was this mutual oral sex or one way? And if one way, was it the girl pleasuring the boy rather than the other way round?
So many males still obsess about the power of the male member – the universal symbol of male-dom and forget the female, believing, as they do, that the thrust is enough. I find that both sad and unimaginative because so limited, and horrifying because insulting to the girl as the ‘lesser’, the eunuch as GG would have it. Rape is, in a sense, an extension or manifestation of that idea, that the girl is an object.
What do we say about chivalry?
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@ Dee Word
Remember that for some your clinical analysis of topics, especially those that are emotive or purposely, emotively complexioned by your detractors, WILL BE construed by most, as being dispassionate and insensitive.
Very few here know you nor that they understand how, post after post, you do not rant and rave, nor use a few cuss words like de Ole Man, sinner as I am, even though a regular church goer.
It takes some time for “dwellers in cyberspace” to assess the nature of a man and if, incredulously “is he for real” of if he just writing “because it is easy to be saintlike” on a blog but be a Jack the Ripper/Raper in real life.
Barring coming out and showing that this is the true man behind the mask, rather pseudonym, you will always attract those who will feel you to be without emotions.
However, like David [BU] blogmaster I too exhort you play the game “up, up, up and on”
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no Ross that is not what i am saying .however to your perceived assumptiom of what i meant. i submit to you that the laws are meant to filter and subjects all to having a fair trial
i find most concerning that dee worst would use analogies with a purpose to protray a perception of the accuser especially in those cases which are so few and far in between when the article rightfully brings to attention the many victims of rape who are victimised by societywhich places the blame while lashing out at the victim
So far dee worst has stridently presented such analogies proving many of the articlesi claims about the victimisation of the rape victim
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@ Nia and all female readers
Rape.
I must admit that I do not understand the psychology of why men rape women and, being the homophobic that I am, why men rape (have sex with) men
Barring the psychotics, the people with mental imbalances, whose myriad reasons are so diverse that I CANNOT comment, I would wish to speak to my poor perspective of the anatomy of rape.
Unlike many other commentators, I am of the belief that we men and women do train our children in the practice of rape.
Let me count the ways
3 year old Matthew (son) to next door neighbour’s kid “I want toy car” “no mine, mine” Matthew grabs car (not his), fight ensues, Matthew bites neighbour’s kid, parent comes to me for satisfaction, my response “dem is only chilrun”, no contrainsts or punishment for Matthew (I know, I know, even though I said no myriad psychotic backgrounds I broke the rule) or have I?
I am going to be very simplistic.
Rape is the taking of that which was not consensually offered.
How many of you have even had blue balls? You have to be a man to have had that experience, it hurts like nothing else, even “release” does not give you “release”
So you were teased beyond that point of release by that ravishing Shelley, Sandra, Mary, Linda (man dem is so many names) but after a while you ingrunt self learn the signs when them is teasers and you ent going get none.
But here is the difference, irrespective of all the pressure pun you head, both of them, like if Fairfield Quarry going explode and spontaneously combust, the constraints are there, “she HAS NOT AGREED to give you the “ting”
You walk to so and so away and try again, with her or another girl, but you DO NOT RAPE!!
Nia, mother that you are and father that I am, “that toy” that you remember to beat my 3 year old ass for” and categorically tell me “is not mine” and reinforce that boundary of “belonging to another” along the path stones of life with harsh words, corporal punishment, denail of liberties and sound reasoning, that is what is missing in this society, GLOBALLY!!!
We are breeding precociousness, inappropriate activities among children, by our inaction.
Grandparents sitting down watching Sex (in the City) and other non-puberty related materials with children who only sex, or its preludes, men kissing me or women kissing women as “just a thing”, WITHOUT CONTEXT and go and repeat it because (i) they should not have been in front of the TV when it was showing and (ii) they should not have it on their TV compliments of the CBC Censorship board that is promoting viewership at the expense of morals.
There is a thin Line between Prude and the Law of Sharia because our so called Christian, Civilized society is failing us.
If you dont call something black or white pretty soon we end up with 5o Shades of Grey and 30 something comments later, which when compared with 600 comments for Fergusson, gives you some sort of understanding that this topic of Rape has maybe, over all this time, become so desensitized that it is now a grey-zone “sexual norm” and, possibly even, an unspoken fantasy, that is accepted by some, relished by others and “doesnt mean a shvte to the Generation Z that will carry us into World War 3
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@PUDRYR
Brilliant!
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@ Pieces at 10:05 AM…”Rape is the taking of that which was not consensually offered…We are breeding precociousness, inappropriate activities among children, by our inaction.”
Agree completely.
Pieces, there is nothing to defend about rape; thus one reason for the low posts turnout. There will always be specific cases which are absolutely wrong but overall we are now very sensitized to the pain of the subject so we may consider discussion as more of an affront best left unsaid.
re your 8:56 comment:
I enjoy the debate and gain valuable insights from the give and take. And I do rant and rave at times but try not to cuss (too much). Blogging is a great way to fine tune one’s writing and persuasive skills.
In real life I am no axe-murderer or mad-man as AC opined recently. So let’s take a blogger on his/her written word; a ‘like’ for sense and a ‘dislike’ for nonsense. Who we may be outside BU’s pages only clouds the picture.
For example, what if we learned that AC (one of all) are actually well respected, learned Bajans. That would be a shocker to the BU as that aura of complete stupidity is lifted. Let’s leave well alone.
And as you said let’s all continue to “play the game “up, up, up and on”
BTW, I suspect that goes back to a long ago comment by David and a link to your alma mater’s school song which has been quoted here a few times, so allow me to borrow it!
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DeeWord March 5, 2015 at 9:38 PM #
“Generally, it is a fool’s errand to take a phrase out of context and make assertions on what is being said.”
DeeWord, your above comment has accurately synopsized the symptoms that are characteristic of pseudo-intellectualism. Therefore, I’m very sure you are now able to positively identify those individuals who, by the content of their contributions, epitomize this condition.
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only dee worst could have got this one awfully wrong under the cloak of “protecting the accusers right.
The article sought to engaged and bright to light a misconception about the rape victim,yet for the life of me a male gender would not have it that way but rather pursue a dangerous path oblvious of the role in which the male gender plays in his sexual fantasies through the act of rape.
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RE pieceuhderockyeahright March 6, 2015 at 10:05 AM #
@ Nia and all female readers
Rape.
I must admit that I do not understand the psychology of why men rape women and, being the homophobic that I am, why men rape (have sex with) men
SEEMS TO ME YOU COULD HAVE STOPPED RIGHT HERE
YOUR LOAD OF BE CONVINCES ME THAT YOU do not understand the psychology of why men rape women
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@deeworst good that you have stridently taken the high road.your pseudo -intellectualism took u way off course but thanks to the help of PDYR you were towed a little closer to home
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Agreed rape is not the fault of the girl or woman.
And in those fewer cases when a man is raped it is not his fault either.
And when a boy is raped it is not his fault.
We all need to teach our children and to understand ourselves that “no” means “no”
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@Simple
Fine but then we have the grey.
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ac
In my book you remain a star, probably for all the wrong reasons.
Pieceuh
Sorry, but I find your eulogy of DeeWord, whom you obviously know personally, nauseating. Your early suggestion that he had come to save us was bad enough and went to his head then. God knows what it will do now.
On black and white…….you know very well, or should at your age, that it’s all about “shades” and that nothing is ‘that simple’. Why do you think Pilate didn’t stick around?
But yes, OK, children should be seen and not heard and we must respect authority because it’s authority and never, but never, spare the lash. That way there’ll be no more rapists, no WW3, and we can all bask in the golden age when there was neither war nor rapists. Good one…from a self-confessed “shade of grey” churchgoer.
‘Rape is that which was not consensually offered”…have you lost the ability to read and is it an age thing?
DeeWord
“Discussion as more of an affront”….Gawd. OK so best not say anything about rape and speak of race only in whispers. From now on let’s have %%% for head nodding and @@@ for head shaking, ^^^ for tut-tutting and VVV for sod-offing.
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grey areas the ongoing allegations about bill cosby. looking at it from the victim perceptive with all but similar stories , the grey area would be a cause of concern as to “why it took so long” why did these women not take there story to proper authorities,
however on the other hand there can be reasonable answers to justify the withholding of such information .
in the final analysis the questions that must be answer was this an act of consent.
No Ross . what i find in this discussion is for some throwing a red flag to obfuscate, most would agree that they are issues in any case which are not straightforward and does show cause where these issues should be challenged, however it is not sufficient to draw a line where a wrong have been committed and place blame on the victim.
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oh by the way, ross your referencing of me ,, errrrrrrrrrrrr
grey area
There are many factors that people use to define a grey-area rape such as being drunk, flirting, being in a relationship with the perpetrator, not fighting enough or not fighting at all. However there is no such things as a ‘rapeable offence’ – being drunk/dressed in a certain way/doing a certain job/being intimate with a person/alone with a person/having slept with them before does not make rape inevitable or acceptable. Rape is not defined by the behaviour of the victim but by the actions of the perpetrator. A person either consented to sexual activity or they did not and if they did not then this is rape – there is no ‘grey’ about it.
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@DeeWord
http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/64356/sir-marston-dissents-appeal-allowed
On Saturday, 7 March 2015, Barbados Underground wrote:
>
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Ross, re ” I find your eulogy of DeeWord, whom you obviously know personally, nauseating.”
Pieces was doing nothing more that what you do regularly. He simply did it with positive words. You prefer to be snarky and a bit caustic but essentially you also evoke the same sentiment of saying, ‘Ok that post made sense’.
At least that’s what some of your broadside clearly suggest.
As an attorney – a man who has forged his life on how words and context matter – when you review my entire post and excerpt two or three words on which you vent I smile.
You would never win any case with that strategy and you know that. So when you snipe at a few words you are simply validating the power of the overall post in my view.
And be assured yours is an excellent eulogy awaiting as well. Your legal posts are top drawer.
With that said can you explain the detail in the case which David highlighted.
The news brief said: Chief Justice … dissented in the decision in which Justices of Appeal …ruled that trial judge … erred in law when she directed the jury that … oral statements that he had inserted his finger into the child’s vagina, corroborated the offence of rape. ”
Why is the act of inserting your finger to a child’s vagina when you are not a doctor or otherwise s.one permitted to do that while bathing or similar NOT a violation of rape or sexual assault?
What circumstances would have allowed this to be downgraded to indecent assault?
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@David at 7:52 AM…Thanks for the highlight.
Interesting case.
This is an underbelly of Bajan society (well West Indian society really) that needs to fully exposed.
Too many men ‘interfere’ with young children or feel its their right to ‘sex’ their girl-children and other such depraved behavior.
The child care authorities have been battling this for years and it needs to be exploded into the open.
These type of men should be shamed to the power of 10 compared to the shame for crooked lawyers and politicians.
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another “grey area”made by a technicality that helped to downgrade the victims right and giving the accuser the benefit of doubt which by all means is critical ..however does not erase or upsurge the serious nature of the act itself
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Nobody should be raped, forced to have sex against their will Most victims of rape in Barbados are children. their attackers male family members. That’s why Barbados has one of the highest rates of child AIDS in the world. I bet all of you contributers to this post recognise that somewhere in your own families. Disgusting. Oh and lets all go along to church on Sunday have a Sunday lunch and then a sweet nap after with the 3 year old. YUK
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