Sagicor to Move Head Office from Barbados in Response to Credit Rating Downgrades
“Sagicor Financial Corporation (SFC) the parent company of the regional financial services provider, has decided to relocate its head office out of Barbados where it has been domicile do for close to 175 years. In an exclusive interview in today’s Business Guardian, SFC president Dodridge Miller said the board decision was unanimous and the Barbados government has been informed. Trinidad, London and the U.S. are options for the new SFC head office, said Miller, who is based in Miami.” – TT Business Guardian
The news that Sagicor, one of the more respected regional companies, will shift its head office must strike at the core of economic fatigue Barbadians. It must have given Barbadian Group President Dowridge Miller no pleasure to be part of the decision that will see a 175 year relationship broken.
Barbadians were assured by the minister of finance Chris Sinckler, governor of the central bank Delisle Worrell and ardent DLP supports that the downgrades by the credit rating agencies are without ‘justification’. If the planned shift of Sagicor from Barbados does not cause a seismic reaction to a government which lacks the competence to manage the country, nothing will.
In August 2014 minister of labour Esther Byer-Suckoo assured Barbadians the unemployment fund was still ‘solid’. This week minister of finance Chris Sinckler had to respond to reports the Unemployment Fund is seriously compromised. It is time for sensible Barbadians whether B, D or Independent to raise their voices in response to the demise of our great island. This is one example of many which exposes a lack of leadership, a crisis of governance or plain ignorance.
Enough is enough!
Barbados Underground 
The Watcher January 9, 2015 at 8:22 PM #
A whole heap of untruths and incorrect facts. Pity some state as if they know it all, when their statements are so inaccurate.
LikeLike
However we want to spin the decision of Sagicor to redomicile it is as a result of Barbados economy seen as adverse.
LikeLike
Sagicor leaving will hurt in many ways, the emotional as Dowridge indicated but what about the government securities it has to hold?
LikeLike
I know little about such things as changing domicile but one thing I do know is that this change will reflect negatively on Barbados and its Government. That might very well be the intention, but that is speculation on my part.
The reasons for the move as explained by Sagicor sounds reasonable and could very well be honest, but somehow going on their history, I have little or no reason to believe them. They lied to the people when they demutualised and since then I have separated myself from them by cashing in my policy and selling the shares that they gave me as compensation. I know that the people who deceived the policy holders into demutualisation have moved on but the same mind set of white superiority and culture of lying to maintain that position are still very much part of who they are.
Don’t get me wrong, I honestly believe that this present administration is bad for this country, and until I am satisfied to the contrary, Sagicor also holds that view and this changing domicile thing might be their way of heaping on the pressure to bring about the Government’s demise.
If Sagicor is telling the truth, it might not be the whole truth.
>
LikeLike
Trinidad? Their last budget was based on $80 per barrel. Go figure.
LikeLike
Will someone tell Donville he needs to stop frothing at the mouth (see back page of the Nation newspaper)? Of course Sagicor exiting hurts Barbados as far as attracting foreign entities to setup here. Also retaining what we have. He should follow the link. All of us are not stupid.
http://www.ttonline.org/2015/01/07/barbados-woes-impact-sagicors-decision-to-relocate/
LikeLike
@ old onion bags January 9, 2015 at 4:20 PM #
“@ Minister’s Ass-is-tant: …………stupesss here comes Poncho the Donkey again…..(Go up 3 spaces and click)”
Onions, I suggest you re-read “Minister’s Personal Assistant January 9, 2015 at 4:13 PM # ” post again.
LikeLike
and in agreement with personnal assistant post,,ac believes wholeheartedly that despite the pain and setbacks and the never ending calls by the prophets of doom and gloom having bloated glee while sitting in the sidelines waiting to see barbados demise ,the strength of others with a determination to see barbados shine will out wit and outsmart everything that stands in barbados way towards success,
For surely the road is not for the swift but those with a full fledged commitment to endure to the end, think on these things
LikeLike
@ Artax
“Onions, I suggest you re-read “Minister’s Personal Assistant January 9, 2015 at 4:13 PM # ” post again.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
LOL
Do you see why Bushie does just turn on the whacker and lick up every shiite now?
Such high level intellectual interventions as that by the personal assistant only serve to confuse Onions and ac …
ha ha ha LOL
ohh shiirt
LikeLike
@ ac
“…..the road is not for the swift but those with a full fledged commitment to endure to the end”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Cuh-shiite ac, the road is for EVABODY….dat is why we does call dem “PUBALIC” roads…
Bushie believes that you mean the race…
You may be interested to know that blogging is not for the yardfowl, but for those with a little common sense and objectivity…
Yardfowls are better placed on call-in shows – especially behind the mike…
LikeLiked by 1 person
@Artex
Doan get tie up man …..I saw peeps of ‘a-ddda’ submit and called in Poncho…wait Bushie ?…..So is U dat send DEM undertakers up to Cloud 99?…..real idijit U had all my neighbours out wid torch lites ……I send ee back wid a bill…TO YOU….wanna duz carry a joke two farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr man.
LikeLike
The board should consider the British Virgin Islands for relocation of Sagicor.
LikeLike
@ Walter Blackman January 10, 2015 at 3:07 AM
“At the end of it all, central management and control of Sagicor will officially pass from Barbados to T&T. The national psyche of Barbadians will be scarred and many will see this as another example of more Trinidadian meat being put into our Barbadian rice.”
“Much to the chagrin of the Government of Barbados, corporate taxes to be paid by Sagicor will now be determined by the Government of T&T.”
Now that is where it hurts the most. Loss of tax revenues, management fees and other benefits associated with the location of the mind and management of a large corporation.
Walter, are we seeing the beginning of another CLICO? Lemon Arbor in the plantation parish of St. John seems to be the breeding ground for some of the smartest insurance executives and financial gurus ever raised in Barbados.
Are these corporations (shareholders) getting value for the mountains of money paid to these executives? Not from what we know and ‘hear and see’ emanating from their brains, right W McM B?
LikeLike
The few idiots here who posited that the fact that 57% of the shares are owned by Trinidadian interests as if that a sufficient condition for relocation, are staggering.
Barbados has hundreds or maybe thousands of global companies headquartered here where not one share in owned by Bajans. Not one!
Trinidad has many as well, where not one share is owned by Trinidadians.
Indeed the headquartering decision is never necessarily based on which nationals have the majority of shares. If that were the case the corporate world would be very different and keep changing erratically in relation to headquartering.
Those who pretend to have a commitment to notions of Caribbean unity but are willing to throw away nearly 200 hundred years of corporate culture because of recent high oil revenues are attached to nothing, but self.
Their idiocy is predicated on the notion that other considerations are invalid. Though violence in Barbados is on the rise. We estimate that T&T is a near war zone.
Should the feckless mis-managers at Sagicor decide to carry this company into that milieu, we guarantee that within 5 years they will again be looking for a country for their flagship.
And we know that the Trinidadian surreptitiously sought from more than 10 years ago to buy sufficient shares and immediately started to demand the relocation.
We say if this conspiracy could now be supported by those who should know better, the Caribbean is really lost.
Another prediction. We are witnessing the beginning of the end of Sagicor. And this is how the end game will play out.
We know that it is target of some global interests. They see the mismanagement. It will soon to taken over and scattered to the wind
Well done Dodridge Miller, well done Hilary Beckles. You are highly competent ass holes
LikeLiked by 1 person
Wuhloss bushite call um whatever! enough to suffice the soul of the hypocrite thatu are!which at any given time will include or exclude your tyrannical postures and positions
LikeLike
…and the PM, Chris Sinkcler Governor of the Central Bank are trying to assure Barbadians that the Standard & Poors down grade is nothing and should be ignored…what a pathelic bunchs of nicompoops…STUPES
LikeLike
Pachamama January 10, 2015 at 10:02 AM #: “…Barbados has hundreds or maybe thousands of global companies headquartered here where not one share in owned by Bajans. Not one!…”
Or any operations conducted here and that is what Sagicor is proposing.
LikeLike
David what do you think about this suggestion ? Sorry to interrupt the smoking hot topics on BU.
“Barbados has what it takes to exploit “several emerging trends” and grow its international business and financial services sector. – See more at: http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/61645/barbados-digital-edge#sthash.GqvMEsRL.dpuf
LikeLike
@Hants
Of course we have what it takes IF we improve business facilitation, IF we improve our judiciary IF…
LikeLike
If I look at the many new big Mercedes driven by MP, judges and bureaucrats, it does not suprise me that Barbados is going down. The deeper the crisis the bigger their cars get.
Barbados has too many ministries, too many judges, too many public servants, too big government buildings, too much bureaucracy, too many people milking tax-payers, too many statutes, too slow responses to business requests and not enough freedom for business to breath.
Wake up and accept reality, that Barbados has a 50 % overhead in government posts.
LikeLike
The tax impact on dividend income, from a foreign based Sagicor, to Barbados-resident shareholders should be examined. The tax rate is currently 12.5% deducted at source. If Sagicor relocates, the foreign tax withheld will presumably depend on the existence of a tax treaty between Barbados and the new jurisdiction. I think also that the current Barbados tax approach to dividends from foreign companies is to include the full amount in income and take a credit for the foreign tax paid – not sure whether CARICOM versus non-CARICOM jurisdiction matters. David, you may be able to get a tax professional to confirm or correct this.
LikeLike
David wrote “Of course we have what it takes IF”
So how about starting a post titled “BARBADOS CAN BE SAVED IF”
LikeLike
@Hants
The nut jobs we have heading ministries are clueless and do not want advice.
LikeLike
Bush Tea January 9, 2015 at 11:10 PM #
@ Colonel Buggy
Is this not exactly in keeping with the owner’s other business standards?
In any other country that is serious about its supposedly key industry, such a place would have been condemned and even bulldozed years ago….
……………………………………………………………………………………………
Ironically, this is a relatively new building. Much blame must lie squarely on the shoulders of Town and Country Planning .This monstrosity should not have been granted permission in the first place.
Not only “low class” Bajans support this establishment. Word has it that one of the leading churches in Barbados started to build a “gymnasium” type “cathedral ” next door , to cater to its occasional very large gathering of churches from across the island, and were curtailed half way through ,by Town & County planning, supposedly on the advice of the owners of Casa Grande. But would you believe , that the same snubbed church, turn around later ,and rented the Casa Grande facilities for a conference. I have it on good authority that the mother of one of the top officials at Town and Country Planning , worked as a manager at the same people’s establishment on Bay Street. So you would not see that establishment being demolished anytime soon. Word also has it that she is a not only a Goate, but a PIG, like Bizzy, supporting both political parties. Heads she wins ! Tails she wins !
LikeLike
@ David January 10, 2015 at 2:04 PM #
@Hants
The nut jobs we have heading ministries are clueless and do not want advice……..
I could not agree with you more.
Sagicor is very important, God knows it is and I am concerned as I have a lot at stake there but we need to also focus on our very important NIS.
You would be amazed what one can hear at cocktail parties. Last night I heard that this inept incompetent government is also holding on the proceeds of NIS matured investments. Word is that NIS was expecting the proceeds from such an investment, could not find what happenend to the money, when they checked with the CBB, they were referred to the liar, he soon called and said he was holding unto the funds for a short while and since then it happened a second time.
We have to be equally as concerned for NIS. When these morons are finished licking out NIS monies…….. what would be there for the pensioners?
Who is going to pay back this money?
Where is it going to come from if we are not earning foreign exchange?
How much long can we continue like this?
Can we get anything from Justin Robinson, Esther Byer Suckoo, Dennis Kellman who seems to know everything about everything or the ac consortium?
We are doomed!
LikeLike
@ Prodigal son
We are doomed!
++++++++++++++
…so wait skipa…
Bushie ain’t tell wunna so evasince?!!
LikeLike
All I earing is bare talk…….Stupessss !!!! Tis Rock is only 11 x 16….site
Is bout time to call in D Action Man…..( Brian ED.Talma) OF COURSE ! LOL
LikeLike
Bush Tea January 10, 2015 at 3:48 PM #: “…so wait skipa…”
This is similar to an expression often used by a popular politician – hopefully you are not revealing your identity.
LikeLike
David
Any ideas on when or if the sugar crop will start this year?
LikeLike
@Vincent
Will inquire.
LikeLike
David,
You could ask the goodly doctor.
Wait, what has happened to the changing around of chairs on the deck of the titanic?
LikeLike
2015 -175=1840 a slavery company , Time for them to leave Barbados ,They were doing the same thing under land fraud ,,, no clear title to the land they may be on bye bye ,
LikeLike
David January 10, 2015 at 5:18 AM # Sagicor leaving will hurt in many ways, the emotional as Dowridge indicated but what about the government securities it has to hold?
David,
From the standpoint of liabilities, existing obligations, financial operations, existing investment portfolios etc..practically nothing will change. Going forward, Sagicor will be allowed to do business in Barbados as a foreign corporation and will be subject to the laws that govern such corporations.
LikeLike
@ Prodi
What has happened to the changing around of chairs on the deck of the titanic?
What do you think?…. mo smoke n mirrors nuh. When groceries become scare on supermarket shelves and there is no money to buy gasoline from T&T….I hope someone will be wise enough to keep a vigil at GAIA…..maybe we might still be able to hold some fellas and demand answers as rats make good exodus from the listing ship.
LikeLike
David wrote ” clueless and do not want advice”.
Concerned BU bloggers should not stop giving advice wanted or not.
LikeLike
Thanks Walter.
LikeLike
@ Walter Blackman January 10, 2015 at 7:16 PM
Could you please elaborate (shed more light) on the ramifications that must follow from the revised relationship between the operational arm of Sagicor Barbados and the new “offshore” holding company.
Would Sagicor Barbados now have to find foreign exchange to pay for management fees, Head Office costs and profit remitted to the offshore parent company?
LikeLike
Is Inniss’ comment appropiae or relevant? Should he have waited until the discussion abated before jumping in?
LikeLike
Hants,
People are wary of this government.
I keep reminding everyone on BU that the Dems do not want any advice. Months after their 2008 victory with a smiling David Thompson in his seat in Parliament, a “powful” Donville Inniss got up in Parliament and boldly declared to MAM………….”We dont want to hear nothing from wunnah, any ideas wunnah got, keep to wnnuh self, wunnah had 14 years, now is we time and we gine do things we way”.
Then last year, the lair told the BLP to put their ideas on paper, he could look at them. The most ignorant PM Barbados ever had…………said he dont want no eminent persons to advise him, he got eminent persons in his cabinet……….
Why would anyone bother with dems, when they finished destroying Barbados, what will all of us do?
LikeLike
Why would anyone bother with dems, when they finished destroying Barbados, what will all of us do?
Finish destroying We lil Bubbadoes?……Nah I doubt Bajans would idly sit by and let that happen….Dis is we rock….when D time comes…we off loading all jettison…poppet asses too.
LikeLike
David
That answer is crucial,due to the closure of many Plantations,including approx 2000 acres,would you believe it that yams today at Applewaithes Pltn were selling at $40.00 a rod…….in Bim……this is no longer a laughing matter.
LikeLike
@ Prodigal Son January 10, 2015 at 8:42 PM
“Then last year, the lair told the BLP to put their ideas on paper, he could look at them. The most ignorant PM Barbados ever had…………said he dont want no eminent persons to advise him, he got eminent persons in his cabinet..”
You are forgetting what the same man implied about the downgrades. Those credit rating agencies’ reports ought to be treated like garbage and thrown in the bin as he does to them. (Maybe that is what happened to the missing FBI and CLICO reports).
It seems Sagicor has definitely not taken his advice.
BTW, what has become of the offer made by the two British “financial arrangers (looking for finders’ fees) to MoF about floating a $2 billion bond on the international market? Has that also found its way into File 13 on the sleeping giant’s desk?
The people no longer have any confidence in the current administration. Too many lies told and promises broken and lying in a cradle of perpetual incompetence. The current administration could do the country a huge favour and just resign. That would be a lasting monument to its legacy.
Let the people reemploy them if the administration feel they are doing an excellent job at the wheel.
LikeLike
millertheanunnaki wrote”The current administration could do the country a huge favour and just resign.”
It would be better if the Opposition first produce a plan to govern and persuade a few ministers to join them in a no confidence motion.
The government will not resign. They have to be forced out of office by a no confidence vote.plain and simple.
LikeLike
Can any of you tell me why Sagicor bought a bank in Jamaica that RBC Canada wanted to “get rid of” ?
LikeLike
@ Hants
Can any of you tell me why Sagicor bought a bank in Jamaica that RBC Canada wanted to “get rid of” ?
++++++++++++++++++++
What do you take us for? …mind readers?
May be for the same reason that the UWI sports place is named for a Jamaican …? because Sir Cave told them to….
It is becoming increasingly clear that logic does not play a major role in many of the decisions taken by Bajan “intelligentsia”….
LikeLike
millertheanunnaki January 10, 2015 at 9:23 AM #
@ Walter Blackman January 10, 2015 at 3:07 AM
“Walter, are we seeing the beginning of another CLICO?”
Millertheanunnaki,
No.
The difference between Sagicor and CLICO is as wide as the difference between night and day.
You would have observed that Sagicor’s recent growth was achieved through the acquisition of companies, rather than through organic growth.
From where I sit, it appears to me that Dodridge Miller’s focus was on the growth-through-acquisition process. Whilst he was “out” pursuing that objective, someone had to stay at home and manage the company’s operations. That responsibility seems to have fallen on the shoulders of Mrs. Pat Downes-Grant.
Pursuing a strategy of growth through acquisition can have a serious effect on a company’s income statement, balance sheet, and internal operations.
Companies don’t naturally merge seamlessly so tremendous effort has to be made to rationalize computer systems, reallocate corporate talent, streamline operations, manage risks, and eradicate duplication and wastage. I believe Sagicor is still wrestling with some of these challenges today.
Sagico Life USA has presented its fair share of problems. At one point, the outlook for the company was negative, but it was recently upgraded to stable after the statutory operating results of the company showed improvement.
Acquiring Sagico Life Jamaica (SLJ) represented a bold but worrisome investment in the Jamaican economy. However, Sagicor has reaped sustained favourable results from its SLJ operataions, and the overall financial situation in Jamaica seems to be improving.
I believe the company has divested itself of its UK business.
Despite its challenges, Sagicor has a lot going for it as a company. It is adequately capitalized, has strong brand recognition, enjoys a strong competitive market position within the Caribbean, and seems destined to receive a stream of consistent earnings from diverse sources for years to come.
Not surprisingly, the last A.M. Best rating I saw gave Sagicor a Financial Strength Rating (FSR) of A- (Excellent), and an Issuer Credit Rating (ISR) of a-.
Sagicor’s history cannot escape the tale of colour and class that defines the history of Barbados. From the moment black persons assumed some positions of power and authority within Sagicor, predictions of the company’s imminent collapse became audible and frequent.
The mere fact that Sagicor is still standing today, with an excellent Financial Strength Rating from A.M. Best, is enough for us to offer this Caribbean company some words of congratulations and encouragement.
LikeLike
@ Walter Blackman January 10, 2015 at 10:13 PM
“The mere fact that Sagicor is still standing today, with an excellent Financial Strength Rating from A.M. Best, is enough for us to offer this Caribbean company some words of congratulations and encouragement.”
Thanks for the comforting words and assurances to those who might have inchoate fears and negative concerns given the recent downgrade.
But how come Sagicor is not playing a greater part in the ‘revitalization’ of the Barbados economy? An economy from which it amassed massive profits over the years to build the solid foundation it has used to catapult its regional and limited international presence.
How come the directors are not prepared to invest in the revitalization and restructuring of the local sugar cane industry with its projected massive spin-off benefits?
Why can’t Sagicor start with the takeover of the former CLICO plantation lands now idle and lying in bush?
LikeLike
@ Bush Tea January 10, 2015 at 8:32 AM #
“LOL: Do you see why Bushie does just turn on the whacker and lick up every shiite now?Such high level intellectual interventions as that by the personal assistant only serve to confuse Onions and ac …”
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hahahahahaha………..Bushie, you right yuh…… both Onions and the ACs were confused by that post. But Onions [and I assume] is one individual, and he may be a bit slow sometimes… so we could forgive him.
However, AC is nuff, nuff people, so at least one ah dum shoulda be able to understand what personal assistant contributed. But just like how managing the economy got the DEMS “cafuffle”, “personal assistant” got the ACs “cafuffle too.
LikeLike
hi muh boy artexeres don/y tek yuself so serious ac got everything covered ,reallly tek ac fuh fool been throwing too many sprats and catching lots a whales
LikeLike
When CIBC attempted to shift focus from basic, everyday retail banking… a lesson in risk management – strong, steady, low risk core business with manageable allocations of capital to high risk business. If you constantly drive at 100 mph, you are likely crash.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/cibc-takes-a-cautious-path-to-growth/article4365359/?page=all
“…When Mr. McCaughey took the reins of Canada’s fifth-largest bank in 2005, he was brought in as a cleanup man whose job was to stabilize the business in a time of unprecedented turbulence. Up to that point, the bank had built itself into an ambitious financial giant under the watch of John Hunkin, an investment banker focused more on capital markets than traditional bread-and-butter retail lending. But after a string of costly and embarrassing missteps in the early 2000s – including, most notably, the $2.4-billion cost of a legal settlement concerning Enron Corp.’s massive accounting fraud – Mr. McCaughey was the man called upon to play fixer.
Two years into the job, he hit a major bump: CIBC found itself on the losing end of massive trades involving complicated securities tied to the U.S. housing market. The multibillion-dollar writeoffs hit the bank’s reputation – and the CEO’s. Mr. McCaughey responded by buckling down, systematically changing CIBC’s risk-taking ways and transforming it into a conservative lender fixated on safe, domestic banking…”
LikeLike
@ ac January 11, 2015 at 12:29 AM #
Can you give us the skinny on the article in today Nation regarding Speaker Michael Carrington withholding funds from a client? Is the George Payne mention in the article the MP for St. Andrew?
LikeLike
@ BAJAN in New York
I did jes tell de Blogmaster de same ting pun de blog bout de Nigerians where he had dat article dey too.
@ All
When wunna get to be 60 going 80 nuff certain decisions does get mek pun simple things not all dis macroeconomic bs that some uh wunna putting heah.
You tink it easy tug tek a always late, sometimes cancelled, LIAT to Bulbados every week to check if wunna Bajans tiefing me money like Greenverbs Leroy Parris?
If de office down by Sabina Park it easy fuh me bossman to drive down and see wha a go on, you understand?
Surveys of seasoned marriage counselors will show that men, when told by their wives that the marriage is over, fixate on the single incident that brought the marriage to an end and the counsellors have a hard time telling us, “man you did doing pup fuh a long time skippa” de women only need that incident to tell we de light switch turn off 2 years ago.
Sagicor was outta here years ago but, like we ex wives dem, dis is only de occasion to notify BULBADOS dat de marriage ovah
LikeLike
@ Shareholder January 11, 2015 at 12:30 AM #
Interesting old (June 2012) story, but what is the connection?
LikeLike
Due Diligence January 11, 2015 at 8:34 AM #; “@ Shareholder January 11, 2015 at 12:30 AM # Interesting old (June 2012) story, but what is the connection?”
A lesson in business expansion to guide the directors of SFC in relation to the abundance of new opportunities that will become available after the relocation. The initial shareholders (Barbados Mutual policyholders and IPO participants) have not yet realised SFC’s value, given the performance of the share price, so any expansion (new risks or financing) should preserve the company’s value. This is not venture capital.
LikeLike
millertheanunnaki January 10, 2015 at 7:56 PM # @ Walter Blackman January 10, 2015 at 7:16 PM
Could you please elaborate (shed more light) on the ramifications that must follow from the revised relationship between the operational arm of Sagicor Barbados and the new “offshore” holding company.
Would Sagicor Barbados now have to find foreign exchange to pay for management fees, Head Office costs and profit remitted to the offshore parent company?
millertheanunnaki,
Sagicor’s financial operations give it access to US$, EC$, BDS$, JAM$ and the company has grown quite accustomed to handling shared services and operating expenses across various territories with different currencies. Rest assured that a change of domicile in itself will not create any major financial or foreign exchange problems for the company.
When the Erskine Sandiford administration recklessly damaged the Barbadian economy in the early 1990’s, rumour has it that the PM ordered major “Barbadian” companies to be prepared to liqidate some of their foreign investments to serve Barbados’ foreign exchange needs. A re-domiciled Sagicor will now provide some measure of protection to the company against incompetent, visionless, poorly prepared Barbadian Prime Ministers, Ministers of Finance, and governments.
LikeLike
Walter Blackman January 11, 2015 at 10:41 AM #: “…Rest assured that a change of domicile in itself will not create any major financial or foreign exchange problems for the company.”
Mr. Blackman, what about for Barbados and the level of domestic earnings to be remitted from the operating companies, in US$, to the then foreign holding company? Are you also able to address the income tax impact on Barbados-resident shareholders regarding dividends paid by the then foreign holding company.
LikeLike
millertheanunnaki January 10, 2015 at 10:41 PM # @ Walter Blackman January 10, 2015 at 10:13 PM
“But how come Sagicor is not playing a greater part in the ‘revitalization’ of the Barbados economy? An economy from which it amassed massive profits over the years to build the solid foundation it has used to catapult its regional and limited international presence.
How come the directors are not prepared to invest in the revitalization and restructuring of the local sugar cane industry with its projected massive spin-off benefits?
Why can’t Sagicor start with the takeover of the former CLICO plantation lands now idle and lying in bush?”
millertheanunnaki,
If a foundation for national development is to be well and truly laid, any PM and/or Minister of Finance must be enlightened enough to sit down with Barbadian companies, outline national objectives and an associated plan of action, and offer incentives to secure the companies’ buy-in.
So far, Barbadians have been mentally conditioned to believe that successive governments have been operating like a whore. These governments shamelessly abdicated their national role and responsibility and decided to prostitute themselves by repeatedly taking money from “diseased” local and foreign “pleasure seekers”. Now that there is little or no more pleasure to be had or to be given, Barbadians have witnessed a very interesting development. The local “pleasure seekers” have now been rebranded (by government!) as pimps and parasites whose sucking activities have left the government’s nipples sore. If the nipples are sore, one can only imagine the state of other ‘private’ parts of the government!
I seem to recall Sagicor’s name being mentioned with attempts to revitalize and restructure the local sugar cane industry. Suddenly, we heard that Sagicor had withdrawn its proposal. We have no information on which to make an informed judgement so conspiracy theories, speculation, and uncertainty will dominate proceedings going forward.
As a country, we certainly have a lot of mess to clean up.
LikeLike
On Sunday, 11 January 2015, Barbados Underground wrote:
>
LikeLike
”Why can’t Sagicor start with the takeover of the former CLICO plantation lands now idle and lying in bush?”
Well, it is unlikely that Sagicor is in the business of farming.
However, if you can deliver to Sagicor permissions in writing to develop said lands, you might get them to strike a deal, for sure.
I wonder why Clico bought those fertile and useful for agriculture lands in the first place??
😉
LikeLike
Sagicor controls Barbados Farms Limited.
LikeLike
Shareholder January 11, 2015 at 11:59 AM # Sagicor controls Barbados Farms Limited.
Ah now, THAT is interesting, thank you Shareholder……
It gets more and more interesting……may I thus suggest, that the share price is vastly undervalued, depending of course, on what permissions exist on such lands.
Of course, whether such permissions shall change in future is merely speculative.
😉
LikeLike
… And MoF take lightly and or disregards the report of Standard and Poors!!!!!
… and he is still Minister of Finance as at January 11, 2015.
LikeLike
Shareholder January 11, 2015 at 10:51 AM # Walter Blackman January 11, 2015 at 10:41 AM #:
“Mr. Blackman, what about for Barbados and the level of domestic earnings to be remitted from the operating companies, in US$, to the then foreign holding company? Are you also able to address the income tax impact on Barbados-resident shareholders regarding dividends paid by the then foreign holding company.”
Shareholder,
Assuming Sagicor is re-domiciled in T&T, we can simplify the situation by looking at things this way:
At the company and intra-company level, all financial and business operations of Sagicor will continue as before. At the end of the year, however, the financial accounting and reporting of Sagicor’s performance results will be done according to the laws of T&T. Corporate taxes will be paid to the T&T government.
At the individual level, if there is a difference between the taxes charged on dividends received by Barbadians from a Barbadian company vs dividends received from a “foreign” company, then such individuals would be affected. They should consult with their tax advisor on such matters.
LikeLike
Crusoe January 11, 2015 at 11:54 AM #
I wonder why Clico bought those fertile and useful for agriculture lands in the first place??
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
These lands are all out of production now? And who are supplying us with the various produce, even if they are in tins, that these abandoned fields would have produced?
LikeLike
Brief wrote, January 11, 2015 at 2:45 PM # … And MoF take lightly and or disregards the report of Standard and Poors!!!!! … and he is still Minister of Finance as at January 11, 2015.
Worse, because he is untrained in finance, cannot understand is something is 0.3, 3 0.7, or 7 percent. But, is my impression wrong that the CBGuv’nor uttered the same view?
Yet, he is allegedly trained in finance and economics and should know better.
Like having someone without a license driving on the road, disaster awaits.
LikeLike
What was it that Dennis Kellman said on Brass Tacks today regarding Sagicor’s move? I tuned into the programme late and I doubt they have made the recording available online as yet.
LikeLike
Crusoe January 11, 2015 at 11:54 AM #
I wonder why Clico bought those fertile and useful for agriculture lands in the first place??
Ever heard of “rab land” and “change of use? Those are the magic words that creates building lots.
It is called strategising for future profitability.
LikeLike
From the news today ”Shares in companies owned by Hong Kong tycoon Li Ka-Shing soared Monday after he announced plans to restructure his massive empire and move it to the Cayman Islands. ”
So, not just Sagicor looking to ensure future viability.
LikeLike
Nation news reports that Kellman called on Sagicor to ‘stand up’ to S&P.
Great Kellman, why doesn’t the Government lead on this and call on the World Bank to lend Barbados USD3 Billion with no interest over a 50 year term.
C’mon Kellie, you can do it, STAND UP to these folk and DEMAND that we get such a loan.
LEAD by example!
LikeLike
Kellman is reported elsewhere in the news that the NUPW march is a power play by Roslyn Smith to cement her position as general secretary. This man needs to hush sometimes and understand that waving a red flag if a bull is in the area is idiocy.
LikeLike
Can someone tell the Hon Denis Kellman to shut his fcuking trap? Sometime I feel sorry for him but then I remember only an idiot would accept to by the Minister of Housing after the DLP and Lashley left it financial ruin, unable to carry out its mandate. Now Kellman says he is going to sell NHC apartments at Grotto for BDS$450,000.00 + as that what they cost to build including the land.
Sit for a minute and study that, the NHC has constructed apartments for social housing for BDS$450,000.00 per apartment. That is nearly BDS$700 per square foot and that does not include a mark up if he want to sell them commercially and make a profit.
TOTAL FCUKING MADNESS.
LikeLike
transparency works both ways.
LikeLike
The problem many of us have is the way these DLP ministers et al are wont to engage on issues, always so aggressive.
LikeLike
how can they engage on substance or intellect when most of them do have either? With Kellman is not just the aggression its the fact that he talks complete nonsense and foolishness.
HE HAS NO RIGHT BE ANYONE’S REPRESENTATIVE AND HE CERTAINLY DOES NO DESERVE TO ME A MEMBER OF ANY CABINET.
LikeLike
Imagine if the Government instead of trying to protect “assumed lepers” would acquire the presently CLICO owned lands in St.John and then lease the land to trained young farmers under a project to increase local food production, generate foreign exchange, increase employment and protect the environment and the rural landscape. Further Barbados could access the Canadian Hunger Foundation money to help finance such a venture. Ironically the the regional office of the CHF is in BARBADOS! When will the Government start to see the many opportunities staring us in face?
What happened to the promise of GRANT aid from Japan and Korea to increase photovoltaic use in Barbados? Imagine if Barbados facilitated the residency of retirees from the USA, Canada etc. Suppose 5000 foreign retirees lived in Barbados and spent on average $3000 US/person annually i.e their pensions. The result….$US15 000 000/ year.
http://pridenews.ca/2014/06/10/caribbean-countries-to-benefit-from-canadian-multi-million-dollar-project/
LikeLike
i heard a conversation that told the other side of sagicor , the Facts were hard and most concerning however they were told, and the person telling the story would be privy to such information more so than the general public, cries for this type of dialogue has been ongoing for quiet a long time ,the interest of Barbados was given another beating by sagicor, it is also in the best interest of barbados to set the record straight,
LikeLike
@Ping Png
You can imagine all you want but if you are unable to energize people it means you are probably doing a lousy job internally. All this government wants to do is build edifices like schools, hospitals, WTE plants and other large capital projects. We know why don’t we?
On Tuesday, 13 January 2015, Barbados Underground wrote:
>
LikeLike
David
In my old age I’m trying not to be so cynical! The problem in Barbados is the Government. Many things can be done by the private sector, NGOs and cooperatives but it is the Government and its policies that are in the way.
LikeLike
The countries interest has always been given the “left overs” govt over the years have held the hands of private sectors and as the story of the other side of Sagicor unfolds one would understand what triggers decisions that leave most asking why.
Defining moments can only happen when the keepers of the gate let truthfulness take centre stage and not appear to be guardians and protectors of selfinterest and those they serve
LikeLike
The other side of the Sagicaor story probably came from Dennis Kellman when he addressed the constituency branch meeting and when he tried to engage David Ellis on the issue during yesterday’s edition of “Brass Tacks”.
If there was indeed another side of the story, the government would have told such, in an effort to defend their poor record thus far. Additionally, those who were privy to such information should have presented it to BU, so contributors won’t have to speculate.
But this talk of persons being privy to information contrary to Sagicor’s claim, is just another futile attempt to defend the government
LikeLike
@ Ping Pong
The problem in Barbados is the Government.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Skippa, you done know that you are one of Bushie’s heroes. You is a fella that does talk sense, think logically and write when you have something to say….
BUT YOU ARE WRONG….
The government of Barbados is an exact representation of the people of Barbados. They are just about as productive, intelligent, innovative and constructive as we are generally.
…in short…shiite.!!
The problem in Barbados is that we have become a CURSED, HOPELESS, LOST set of brass bowl jokers, who have become the laughing stock of the region and soon the whole world.
To whom much is given, much is expected, ….and few countries have been ‘given’ more than Barbados per capita / per square mile…. AND WHAT HAVE WE RETURNED?
…bunch of selfish, GODLESS, hypocritical, materialistic, jackasses….
The damn government (or opposition) can’t POSSIBLY be any better.
Why curse Kellman…?
That man would have been considered a village idiot in more enlightened times…. wuh shiite, ac on occasion makes as much sense as Kellman…
The Fellow Lashley who is now claiming to be seeking cooperation from the ZR people, and who managed to build hundreds of “low cost” housing units costing more than some high end houses actually has the GALL to show his retarded looking face on TV almost every night…
steupsss… the PROBLEM is really the INEVITABLE result of WICKEDNESS on a NATIONAL SCALE as exemplified by;
.. DEED’s repeated charges of massive land fraud..
…the open secret of shiite throughout the legal system,
…institutionalized BRIBERY as a way of life in government,
…nepotism on a national scale – both public service AND private business
…and on an on and on….
THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES TO ACTIONS AND BEHAVIORS
….wunna think BBE is like the idiots running bout here??? …where everyone can do shiite and get away with it nuh…?
Don’t try and CLEAN HOUSE…..!!!
We ain’t see NOTHING yet…
LikeLike
I tell all yuh that that semi retard from sen Lucy was gone be pun brasstax first ting Monday to talk foolishnessk bout somebody else’s meh-en-stree and he en fail.This is one time I had to agree wid Ellis to restrain this JA odder wise he would end up paying Sagi for loss of customers and all o we know that money is bout truss so ef a kabnit menstuh say the govt prop up Sagi and all o we know dat is abig big lie,Ellis did the right ting to get this short knee crotch donkeyhole off the radio quick quick.Wunna kin see a JA like kellman in a EWB cabinet.No way!More proof that this is the most poor rakiest govt out.
LikeLike
Bush Tea January 13, 2015 at 8:31 AM #
“Why curse Kellman…? That man would have been considered a village idiot in more enlightened times…. wuh shiite, ac on occasion makes as much sense as Kellman…”
Hahahahahahaha……. wuh loss Bushie, now that’s a good one.
LikeLike
Unfortunately Bush Tea is bordering on being correct Ping Pong, call it cynicism but then reality must set in. As a people we have become comfortable in our skin fashioned by the trappings of conspicuous consumption which define our values nowadays. The fact Kellman would deny the role any government plays in shaping policy at a macro level and nurturing the environment that allows NGOs, private sector agencies to play and have fun exposes a level of idiocy hard to comprehend.
LikeLike
Given that people get the government they deserve, Bush Tea would be correct. The only problem is that my family and I live here and we believe that we deserve better.
LikeLike
Kellman brought an issue to table that should have been regarded as important whether one thinks it is nonsense or not. The keepers of the gate should have dig deep instead of retreating under the premise that what kellman was saying could have been detrimental to their establishment.it was an issue worthy of transparency and would have held the minister feet to the fire through good probing question.instead what occured was anticlimatic and a moderator crying foul
LikeLike
Pingback: The SAGICOR Debate | Barbados Underground
Who cares , No More Violet Beckles to move on just like CLCIO , Free fraud land is what fuel Barbados crooks to be propped up to act like Big Business men , All dam crooks , 29 years of crooking and still not get all, Bye Bye Slavery company,Hall ya asses ,
LikeLike
Bush Tea January 13, 2015 at 8:31 AM #
Thanks Bush tea,, We know you know, on face book after much warning on these free fraud companies we now seeing movement on the re- education of Barbados people , we had over 54000 hits in Barbados alone on FACEBOOK, Now we over 14000 on the 2nd part of school ON THE LIST OF DBLP rentals,
Bajan 101 Fraud , next come rentals , soon Plantation readings, With Each they will see and already know the names in the story and who played what rolls. Lawyers , Ministers, Government workers.As Water company, Town and country,Inland Rev, land Tax,ect,
A Nation is land, people Constitution and Flag, Laws and enforcement of such laws , record keeping of History, All these thing frig up after 1966 November 30th Barbados , Act 50 of 166 pages ,, As crooks liars and scumbags make it legal for them to take what not theirs ,,Many got rich and soon to be broke or in Jail,
Mia now helping in legal fee of the House crooks, Mia will need help in her legal fees so she investing early ,,,
They all covering for each other , Sir Sleepy Smith and the Nations News and others give them talk to ease the sting of crime and look to talk it away , All the Lawyers in the news papers talking in circles to fool people,
Please dont go for that bull shit, Steven Lastassly , Build all them houses on Violet Land and now cant make a cent ,
If he build so much so good so fast and now can even give those who paid in cash a DEED.He a bigger crook than the House rat,
He will look to sneak back in to that seat ,
Santi Brawshaw looking to put a new face for Mia , Woman i told you , that you in bad company ,
Dont look to be in any 3rd party against the CUP , its will be a nasty fight for votes , like last time you all better send another Minister with a one way ticket to America for another 3,000,000 USD TO BUY VOTE,
CUP dont need no money , Truth will get us the Vote to get all the Rats out the People House, Like the rest of the lawyers that jump off the net and BU ,Enjoy your one term ,
LikeLike
Coalition of Unified Parties Hon: Alex-Mitchell:El, President PLEASE CLICK FOLLOW FOR UP COMING FACTS, FINDINGS OF WHAT WILL BE POSTED NEXT ,THE DLP/BLP HAVE TO BE REMOVED, THEY ARE CROOKS LIARS AND SCUMBAGS OF BARBADOS, THE IMF,WORLD BANK , MOODY’S, S&P can not be fooled by these people , The Speaker of the House is a small fry to what was done with CLICO and Sagicor , The Legs of Fraud have walked away with out money , The land Laundering of UDC and NHC.The lawyers and Pimp title Holder who use such title to lure in Tourist and returning Nationals out of good hard earn money as builders defraud them.
LikeLike
The only good thing that Sir Simmons EX CJ ever said , Was that the High Court have no land to sell. But yet people still say they bought the land from the court?
LikeLike
@Deeds
How does one buy land from the Court?
LikeLike
I presume that Sagicor will consider these recent developments
http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/66831/shortlist-hq
http://www.royalgazette.com/article/20150428/BUSINESS/150429703/1003
http://www.trinidadandtobagonews.com/blog/?p=8795
LikeLike