We loyal sons and daughters all
Do hereby make it known
These fields and hills beyond recall
Are now our very own
We write our names on history’s page
With expectations great,
Strict guardians of our heritage
Firm craftsmen of our fate
National Anthem of Barbados (chorus)
The failure of Almond Beach Village has fuelled feeling in some quarters that Neal & Massey is shedding assets to rebalance the acquisition of BS&T a few years ago. This has caused tongues to wag about whether Barbados has a viable land use policy. It is no secret our land space is known to be approximately 166sq miles. The absence of a robust land use policy should make this a concern for all Bajans at home and abroad.
Regrettably, it is inevitable that an issue as important as a land use policy will easily become politicised. Any attempt to direct common sense (not to be confused with nationalistic fervour or jingoism) thought at this matter is too often swamped by the prospect of those who see access to foreign direct investment as the overriding consideration. Those of us who preach caution are labelled anti foreign investment. How myopic! Greedy and lazy politicians are prepared to sell our navel string and we remain silent.
Here is an example of an investor (Harlequin) who has been attracting bad media across the world. Here is an investor who has targeted Barbados and the Caribbean for investment. What due diligence did local authorities engage in before approval? Yes we should welcome foreign direct investment but it should be done between the boundary of a robust due diligence framework.
fyi
David, is it still illegal for Barbadians, who are residing in Barbados, to hold US$ accounts in the USA or was this legalized?
@Crime Monitor
Not sure but the common sense answer must be yes if you operate on the basis that Barbadians are not suppose to use foreign currency as legal tender locally. To invest overseas (open accounts) you would therefore have to buy forex from the bank by obtaining approvals. Not sure in the case of a Barbadian acquiring forex outside of Barbados and depositing in a foreign account how that is vied.
Here are a couple of relevant links:
http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/9631574.The___180m_holiday_homes_gamble/?ref=fbsend&fb_source=message
http://businessbarbados.com/investor-guide/foreign-investment-controls/
What is a robust land use policy in the context of Barbados? We too love trotting out sound bites!!
@enuff
Knew that would get you.
What it is not is selling our land to any Tom, Dick and Harry.
Barbados land use policy was SELL de coast to foriners and de rest to Cow.
@hants
Don’t forget CLICO!
Some politician said last week we must move away from an agrarian land use policy.
Who was it?
LOL
Is this the Four Seasons story too…or just similar?
Bush Tea Really enjoyed that You-tube clip. Hard to believe that well off people could be so gullible and stupid….. Or is it greedy…?
Reminds Bushie of Allan Stanford during his glory days…. With the local press, cricket hyarchy and high society ‘smelling up behind him’ as Mrs. Bush used to say…. “Sir!!” indeed!!!
It really is amazing that we in Barbados have so much faith and confidence in people whose background we know nothing about… And so little in those among us who we have known from birth….
One wonders if O$A has had a rethink of his policy of inclusion which extended to ‘including’ outsiders who he thinks had something material to offer…..?
….or whether he now realizes that one thing that CANNOT be depended on from such “INCLUDED” is loyalty?
The land use policy of a Nation like Barbados should be based on the need to house and feed its people.
This has to be balanced with the gift of being an Island blessed with beaches.
Now that we have sold the beach lands for their best purpose and taken huge acreages to build Golf courses and luxury houses for the Rich what next?
Can any engineer comment on the work being done at the property next to KFC on the south coast? I notice that the name of the developer is also Harlequin.
@ David
The sale of land or non-sale is NOT a land USE policy!! That is land ownership.
@enuff
Here is a clarification for you: land use and land ownership can be used interchangeably – now get pass it!
@Hants
The NE corridor is still to be fought over. Which government will preside over its decimation?
@ David – forgive enuff
“…there are none so blind…”
What “OWNERSHIP what??! who “owns” land?
Land is a national birthright that is held in trust for future Barbadians. Wise, thoughtful and caring trustees would not only pass this legacy on to their children and grand children, but would ensure that it was passed on in an enhanced state….
How on earth can people argue that it is acceptable for current trustees to SELL the birthright of their own children to strangers…? …so that they can enjoy the “pot of soup” represented by foreign cars and oil…?
It is analogous to one of Enuff’s children exercising their ‘RIGHT’ to sell off their room in the family house, to raise money to attend reggae on the Hill…
stupsseee – this is so basic….!!
@Bush Tea
Or my backyard! Why did it have to be a reggae show ticket? Are you saying that people sell their land only to finance the trivial? Managing 166 sq miles of land space with a multiplicity of competing uses is far from basic.
@ David
Lease? Promote only local property development? I must say DThompson’s policy insisting on local involvement with foreign investors was commendable but still did not address USE.
Hants | April 28, 2012 at 1:42 PM |
The land use policy of a Nation like Barbados should be based on the need to house and feed its people.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There must also be the employment consideration.
BT
If you were to really dig dispassionately into what happened that changed the perfectly good land use policy Barbados developed you would end up at post independence politicians and their lackeys looking to make a dollar.
They don’t give a damn about the future well being of this country, just what they can get in the five years they hope to have.
To expect current politicians to come up with a land use policy that works is ridiculous. None has the slightest idea of how to employ large tracts of land productively for the long term benefit of our country.
That knowledge resides in a fast disappearing segment of the population, the old time planter and labour class that once employed a land use policy developed over years for the productive use of land.
All politicians can do is encourage the growing of more and more bush …. and they ain’t even got a clue how to brew bush tea.
We keep saying it: both the DLP and BLP must be kicked out of the parliament of this country in 6 years time.
One of the outrageous things that both DLP and BLP Governments have been doing is allowing our Barbadian land space rights to be sold by Barbadian people and businesses to foreign people and businesses, and by foreign people and businesses to other foreign people and businesses.
None of our land space rights should have been allowed to be owned by any foreign people or businesses. None whatsoever!!
If anything foreign people and enterprises should have been only allowed to lease such rights for relatively short term of years for every lease, but with no possibility of subleasing such rights.
Also no foreign businesses should have been to operate in Barbados without entering into partnerships with other Barbadian people or enterprises.
A future PDC Government shall make sure that the requisIte laws and policies pertaining to such philosophies are enacted in this country.
For their deliberate failure to put such laws and policies in place to safe guard the land patrimony of this country, and to make sure that every household in Barbados has its own land space rights, these two jackass factions must be kicked very hard and hard as hell out of the parliament of this country in 6 years time.
PDC
“Relatively short terms of years”
PDC
@ PDC
And what does leasing and local investor involvement accomplish besides preventing foreign ownership? How does it engender a ‘robust’ land use policy?
What is the relatively large tract of land in the Pine i.e the area west of the MTW sports ground, being used for? or land north of C’mere school, or the land in the Belle or in the Scotland District. It would seem that if we want land to be used “productively” we need more foreigners not less. (ok I’m being slightly sarcastic but only slightly..)
Recently a group of undergraduate students from a USA university came to B’dos and helped in the refurbishment of playground facilities at a government owned CH CH primary school. Meanwhile, UWI undergraduate were “doing de dog” at the annual UWI carnival. We should remember the parable of the talents.
@Ping Pong: “Can any engineer comment on the work being done at the property next to KFC on the south coast? I notice that the name of the developer is also Harlequin.
I”m not an engineer. But any Bajan who walks along the Board Walk or drives along the south coast high-way can tell you…
This structure has been reduced down to its core, and is currently being held up because of stanchions.
The property is boarded up, with signs showing Harlequin’s presence, stating the property will be reopening 2012.
Meanwhile, there is a very expensive pile driver on the site which doesn’t appear to have moved in more than two weeks.
Hmmmm….
The People’s Democratic Congress | April 28, 2012 at 4:38 PM | We keep saying it: both the DLP and BLP must be kicked out of the parliament of this country in 6 years time
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
WHAT will happen when we do this ??
Give us the 411
@ “The entity etc …”
– I’m not an engineer either but the structure next to KFC in its present state does not look safe to me nor does it look suitable to be used as part of a refurbished building. The reinforcing steel has been left exposed for a long time and corrosion would have started which I’m told will weaken the structure. The structure is also an eyesore but the precedent for that has been set by such derelict buildings as the old eye hospital, the old general hospital/ Ministry of Health compound or Marshall Hall and many other Government owned properties.
Is Harlequin the same company behind the project at Merricks in St.Philip? The Central Bank expects this project to contribute significant to B’dos economic prospects see http://businessbarbados.com/business-economic-reports/review-barbados-economy-2012q1/
check this link out:
http://www.harlequinhotelsandresorts.com/hotels/
It appears this property is under the wing of the Harlequin under discussion.
@Ping Pong: “I’m not an engineer either but the structure next to KFC in its present state does not look safe to me nor does it look suitable to be used as part of a refurbished building.
I agree. If Barbados was to experience another earthquake, or a tsunami, that structure may collapse.
But because the last two Barbados Prime Minsters have not approved any coastal developments, the developers are using loopholes.
@Ping Pong: “The Central Bank expects this project to contribute significant to B’dos economic prospects…
Do they actually expect this?
Or are they telling us to expect it?
Different things….
@ enuff
why a reggae ticket…?
Because that is almost exactly the type of use to which we have put the monies derived from the sale of our birthright land.
we used it to pay for ‘first world status’ – what ever that means…. it boils down to enjoying a nostalgic feeling for a short period while a set of uneducated morons laugh all the way to the bank…
YOU tell Bushie what is worth the sale of our children’s future roots..
…the car in every garage?
…the graduate in every home (and we cant find a dozen leaders or businessmen?
…a cell phone in every pocket – to enrich another Irishman?
… or is it so your political bosses can play their five year game…?
Bushie would dead with laugh if you come home from East Coast Road and find your youngest daughter just sold your kitchen to an Englishman….
So B’dos is betting its economic well being on the actions of a known conman?!! Oh well if Antigua re:Stanford could do it why not us?
@Ping Pong: “So B’dos is betting its economic well being on the actions of a known conman?!! Oh well if Antigua re:Stanford could do it why not us?
Because it doesn’t “scale”. Read: It will work for a little while, but not for long.
The “smart money” is interested in long term viability.
Even here in little Bim….
@ John
“That knowledge resides in a fast disappearing segment of the population, the old time planter and labour class that once employed a land use policy developed over years for the productive use of land.”
*******
Now John, you know full well that Bushie will have issues with that statement….
What knowledge what…?
You can’t be referring to the old time plantation Planter who employed the the policy of exploitation of his slaves (labour class) to enrich himself and his family to the deliberate exclusion of the hardworking slaves….are you?
…and you can’t be referring to their descendents either – like the ones who sold out Plantations, BS&T, and recently BL+P to foreigners after decades of exploiting locals to build up the reserves and fat – so that they can attract big offers for themselves and their families….
…so pray tell us who these fast disappearing segment are….
What we really need in Barbados is a genuine EDUCATION philosophy which seeks to understand WHO we are; WHAT our purpose is; and HOW we can live successful and fulfilling lives here… and the ‘first world’ countries can’t teach us that…. they need it too….
…else we will continue to be made the fool of….
@Bushie wrote ” What we really need in Barbados is a genuine EDUCATION philosophy which seeks to understand WHO we are”
Too late Bushie. That should have been done 50 years ago.
@ Bushie
What is your solution?
@Hants: “Too late Bushie. That should have been done 50 years ago.
Yes, it should have been done 50 years ago.
But is wasn’t.
And it is rarely too late.
Why not try to do it now?
@Enuff: “@Buchie: “What is your solution?
One might reasonably ask what is your solution.
@ Enuff
What is Bushie’s solution?
*********
(…more precisely, what is Bushie’s solution for Barbados… Since Bushie has had a personal solution for a few decades now….)
Well it depends on what the specific problem is… You may recall that when BBE himself was personified on earth, when ‘the problem’ was identified as a lack of wine – he provided that…
…when it was blindness or sickness or even death, he removed that…
But he was at pains to point out that the REAL human problem was a fundamental need “to be born again…”
…so Enuff, if you want workable governance with FOI and full transparency- then Bushie has already outlined the solution in the COOP model.
…if you want to be rich and comfortable then you need to learn to be productive and selfless (like a true bushman)
BUT…
….if you want to be truly successful, then you need to come to understand the true purpose of your existence and to redirect your efforts to passing THAT examination – rather than blindly following the herd up to Farley Hill (so to speak…)
@ Entity formerly called CH
Congrats on your choice of gravatar, the solution to which requires the arbitrary definition of an imaginary number to represent something which otherwise defies logical explanation…
What is wrong with you? Did you not hear Enuff’s solution?
…..install a hive in parliament…. 🙂
so what if we come to find out that the real purpose of existence surpasses our expectations of yourselves and which is only limited by the things which we do for others and expect of ourselves and can be easily summed up in treating others the way we would want to be treated ourselves.
@ Bushie
FOI and full transparency will not produce a ‘robust land use policy’.
@Enuff: “FOI and full transparency will not produce a ‘robust land use policy’.
Wouldn’t hurt though. Would it?
so what would a robust land use policy entail. and would it put any real meaningful policies in place ensuring that the natives be given first preference to buying land and if so how would that be implemented in a democractic and captalist society.
Cuddear Enuff, a “robust land use policy” is merely a symptom of our state of nationhood…..
IS THAT ALL YOU WANT?
…let bushie break this down for you.
Do you and your family go about using your available resources to sustain your family expectations? Or do you all sit around watching movies and playing dominoes, and depending on welfare?
Would you consider selling parts of your home to rich neighbors -( like Bushie) to raise money?
How about the room next to the oldest daughter…? Even piece of the backyard would interest Bushie…. It would provide someplace to dump some junk which is cluttering up the Bushman’s palace…
OR do you and family Sit down and plan to improve and even expand the home and make it comfortable to your family – WHILE welcoming to guests?
Even if things got tight, would you not collectively tighten belts and share resources RATHER than have strangers like Bushie walking bout in your house like he own it…?
Translate that analogy to what John’s friends and “master planters” have done to the rest of their Bajan family -when they sold out our BS&T to trickydadians, and BL+P to Canadians, who are now striding all over our home telling us what we must and must not do….
THERE CAN BE NO GREATER LACK OF PRIDE FOR A FAMILY THAN TO FIND ITSELF IS SUCH A STATE….the parents must be ashamed…
Bush Tea | April 28, 2012 at 6:55 PM |
Now John, you know full well that Bushie will have issues with that statement….
What knowledge what…?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You got head problems!!
Pawpaw leaves I am told are good … or was that soursop leaves.
Try both.
Go check the share registers before you make claims off the top of your head that may not historically accurate.
Prove what you allege.
Educate yourself before you go telling others to get an education philosophy.
… and after you educate yourself, then educate us with facts.
You are so typical John….
What check what share registers what??!!
You think Bushie foolish…?
We need to check the BOARDROOMS….. Or more correctly, up Cattlewash and Bath…
If you check the shareholders you will only see what we are now seeing at CLICO and ALMOND…. Lots of different people’s money, hopes and aspirations under the control of a few selfish ‘parent types’ who operate on selfish, hidden agendas….
And Bushie’s education is beyond question- even beyond your comprehension…
…you better go to sleep and don’t get Bushie started….
This education thing is tough, I know.
Lemme help you.
http://barbadosfreepress.wordpress.com/2007/07/02/sir-allan-fields-great-businessman-or-traitor-to-barbados-or-both/
Bushie you still fail to see the tension and contradiction that exist between promoting everyone owning piece of the rock and a sound land use policy.
Agree with you ref BS&T etc somewhat, but maybe we focused too much on owning piece of the rock and in doing so indebted ourselves to the same banks rather than being part owners.
Here is my first tenet of a land use policy:
Dynamic, not arbitrary or subject to politics, but evidence-based
@ John
If you are going to accuse Bushie of needing ‘education’ and then proceed to quote BFP as a reference we are done for the night…. Their agenda fits well with yours…
@ Enuff
The ultimate way in which everyone can own a piece of the rock would be for NO ONE to ‘own’ any of it. Why should it not be held in a collective trust for that family of mankind called ‘Bajans’?
We don’t “own” a thing, we merely utilize the place during our short sourjourn here.
Bajans could exercise a lease arrangement which can provide for transfers between Bajans, by will or sale of the lease.
It would be like two of your children exchanging rooms in your family home….. Which is a whole lot different to a stranger moving in.
Not that outsiders won’t be welcomed. Both as visitors and as additions to the family by marriage, adoption, or deep friendship… But not “se vende”
Some things are sacred.
@enuff
Why is it you continue you trivialize the importance of managing our land resource? Do you not appropriate using our finite land resource to fund our revenue gap is not sustainable and we will need to have this conversation down the road anyway? To have a conversation about land use/OWNERSHIP is not being anti foreign investment but more about pushing ourselves to be as creative in creating productive sectors to build out a wholesome society of which the economy is a part. Reference to economy and society is not to be confused with the DLP cliche which has been politicized because it is fool hardy to ignore the nexus between an economy and a society.
Bush Tea | April 28, 2012 at 11:15 PM |
@ John
If you are going to accuse Bushie of needing ‘education’ and then proceed to quote BFP as a reference we are done for the night…. Their agenda fits well with yours…
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Excuses, excuses,… you letting yourself down too bad.
…… just go read the excerpts from Ronnie Hughes’ work on the history of BS&T if you feel you are not able to handle the article by BFP.
Pay particular attention to the need of BS&T in 1931 for capital … when it was still private …. and the takeover bid in 1969.
You will realise that the historical facts render your allegations completely ridiculous.
I can copy and paste them here but the blog and its posts are worth the read …. all at the time when BS&T was in the process of being taken over!!
I note that was in 2007, well before elections were even announced.
… and BT
You will find the family construct difficult for alot of Bajans.
The society has “evolved” to the point where family no longer matters to many.
… and there BT is where you will find the genesis of the problems we face today.
John
We read your nonsense on BFP. It belongs over there.
you may want to be an apologist for the whites who benefited from the fact of slavery AND WHO WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR DESTROYING THE FAMILY STRUCTURES OF BLACKS…and who continue to use the proceeds of slavery to perpetuate your apartheid
schemes.
You may think that you are smart now – to come here blaming the lack of black business success on “weak family” …. That is typical of people like you….
Like the Americans blaming the current chaos in Iraq on the “insurgents” after they bombed the shit out of a place that was culturally more advanced than theirs….
Even you must be intelligent enough to see the nonsense in your rant about shareholders having the ability to elect directors…. You must REALLY think we are your BFP cohorts…
We know That You and your traitor kind get together down Cattkewash and plot your schemes and bribe the petty, greedy, idiots that you bankroll as politicians …. Then you got the gall to come here on BU with your condescending excreta….
Get thee behind Bushie….
BT
What exactly is “black” business?
“Pay attention to the need for capital by BS&T in 1931”
You think that Bushie could ever stop paying attention to that period…. Those DEVILS made their Capital from people like BT’s parents who worked hard and long for them – for practically NOTHING…
Rightfully, Bushie’s just and fair inheritance is part of BS&T’s equity that your friends have handed to Trinidadians…. Who will now attempt to do to present day Bajans what your father did to Bushie’s dad.
That Bushie’s parents were able to produce the GREAT family that they did – DESPITE the efforts of your patents, speaks to the GREATNESS of our ordinary people….contrary to the insulting remarks that you persist in dropping about black families…
You should check closer to home….like how you turned out to be so pathetic – considering the resourses available in your family over the last century….
Sorry BT:
My grandfather started from scratch, and I mean scratch.
Glad you read the description of the 1931 piece.
I’ll copy and paste it below for others who may not seek enlightenment as diligently as yourself.
John
July 2, 2007 at 7:43 pm
It might be worthwhile to look back at the history of BS&T.
I have found the book by Ronald Hughes entitled the “The First 75 Years” extremely informative. It looks back on the History of BS&T to its formation on 29th November 1920 as a private company.
Here is an account of probably the first time foreign ownership was contemplated by the board.
This was on 18th April 1931, not quite 11 years after its formation. It was in response to the need to raise capital.
BS&T would have been a private company at the time.
“Times were so bad that on Saturday April 18 1931, the Board held a special meeting the possibility of selling BS&T shares in London in order to raise funds, which may not have been possible in Barbados.
The company’s auditor, Mr. C.K. Pile was going to the U.K. and it was considered that he should be delegated the task of talking to possible investors.
The Chairman suggested that because of strong trading links Montreal, Canada, might be even a better place to raise funds.
After much discussion, however, the board decided to do nothing and BS&T remained firmly in Barbadian hands.”
… taken from BS&T, “The First Seventy Five Years” by Ronald Hughes
… and then there was the 1969 attempted takeover
John
July 2, 2007 at 8:03 pm
Then there was the Attempted Takeover of 1969 described by Ronald Hughes in the same book as follows:
“At a meeting of the Board of Directors of BS&T on January 15 1969, the Chairman Mr. Leacock, made reference to an advertisement placed in the local press by the Trust Department of a commercial bank offering to buy an unlimited number of BS&T 1 pound ($4.80) shares for $9.50, the market value at the time being about $7.50.
The Chairman regarded this as an attempt by a foreign business, with which a Mr. Rothschild was associated, to take over BS&T.
The Chairman regarded the matter so seriously that he stated his intention to inform the Prime Minister of what was being attempted.
At subsequent meetings of the Directors in January, February and March 1969, the Chairman made the following observations and proposals to counter the attempted takeover.
He stated that the company was undercapitalised and the physical assets were grossly undervalued, which made it a target for a takeover.
The Board decided to convert 5 one pound shares to 24 $1.00 shares, a conversion ratio of 4.8 to 1.
At the same time, the dividend on the new shares was increased to 24 cents per share, an increase of 77% over the equivalent of 13.54 cents paid the previous year.
This was followed by a bonus share issue of 1 for 4 the following year when the dividend was maintained.
The overall effect was that shareholder value increased enormously, the cost of buying a controlling interest escalated and the attempted takeover evaporated.
The Barbadian shareholders who benefited tremendously should bless the name of Rothschild, for the attempted takeover jolted thre directors out of their complacency and forced tham to loosen the purse strings.
The attempted takeover by a prestigious foreign company was also an endorsement of BS&T’s soundness as a business.”
When you fast forward to 2007 and the Neal & Massey takeover I put forward the following point.
@John
The spin you are putting on BS&T does not change the fact that 4-years ago it sold our only conglomerate and for what? The fact that N&M used the assets of BS&T to consummate the deal dispels that notion that N&M’s financial wherewithal would make the former BS&T entities stronger. Like Plantations this was a case of N&M seeing the opportunity to asset strip BS&T. Who sells its only conglomerate anyway?
John
July 2, 2007 at 8:12 pm
For me the most telling sentence in the book by Ronald Hughes relates to the extremely hard times which accompanied the first 19 years of the Company’s existence, 1920-1939.
“…. But the chief reason for the survival of BS&T during the first 19 years of its existence was the ridiculously low level of wages paid to employees who, with unemployment at 38%, had no choice but to accept.”
Shareholders really need to study their heads carefully, …. particularly if they are Bajan!
I am amused by the battle between Bushy and John. I am amused that John uses BFP as a credible source. John then proceeds to hand victory in the argument to Bushy on a platter, by quoting a book by a body called Ronald Hughes, in which it states that BS&T made the its fortune by underpaying its staff.
So, let me support Bushy (Islandgal can beat him up later for his comments about the ladies).
During the period that John has discussed, being the period when Barbados corporate law was governed by the Companies Act 1910, private companies were usually capitalised at a greater amount of shares than were actually issued. It was standard. Just to be clear, a company might be capitalised at 10,000 x £1 shares (the currency in which these shares were quoted was usually sterling). But only 7,500 shares were actually issued to shareholders. The idea being that the balance were held for the purposes of, at need, bringing into the company other parties who might provide some goods or services to the benefit of the company, e.g. special skills or, more likely, capital.
Therein lies my complete and unqualified support for Bushy’s comments. BECAUSE it is to the everlasting shame of those who controlled companies in Barbados during the period that John has discussed that they did not think to issue those unissued shares (or part of them) in their companies to the very employees to whom they were paying such scandalously low wages. And let there be no doubt that this was because of the “them and us” mindset.
Had they had the foresight and humanity to bring their employees (on which, as John’s quotes from this book proves, the companies based their prosperity) in as shareholders and therefore part owners, they would have (a) removed lots of union problems; (b) acted in a morally fair manner; (c) avoided the have and have not issues today which translate themselves in terms of racial disharmony; and (d) been praised by the nation for their foresight and humanity.
Instead, they acted in a way that is deserving on the condemnation and contempt of Bushy. And me.
As for Harlequin, it and its officers are under investigation by the United Kingdom police. So, let us now wait and see if any charges are laid. We have an excellent extradition agreement in place with the UK and I am sure we will honour it if required.
But David
Look at the account of the takeover bid from 1969 and tell me if the old guard did not act as though they felt they were responsible for a Barbadian Company, then public I think.
Which is the point I am making to demonstrate the ridiculous position BT has taken.
He has been overtaken by events and is yet to grasp what is going on. He is busy chasing ghosts. Like so many Bajans he has been brainwashed by politicians and their lackeys and is unable to see the what stares him in the face.
What happened in the 2007 takeover.
There was no identity, no philosophy, no nothing.
The result today is what you see.
At the time the politicians were on about CSME and promoting the movement of capital in the region.
My position then as you can read was, and still is, that if N&M, or CLICO, or any other regional entity wanted to invest in Barbados it, or they should bring something new, …. don’t mess with existing assets.
Face it, the politicians facilitated the sale of the businesses and you can rest assured they got their cut too.
Barbados has I agree been sold out from within but it is necessary to remove the blinkers to see who is who and what is what!!
When we do that we will see what it is we need to do.
My policies with BMLA gave me shares when it was demutualised.
I sold them.
Quite apart from the fact that the price was good at the time my gut says don’t own shares in any company in Barbados unless it is unavoidable.
Since I figured that out a top accountant has independently said the same thing to me … he is not interested in owning shares in any company in Barbados.
It is the integrity thing!!
@John: “He is busy chasing ghosts.”
Once again, I defend Bushy. He is not chasing ghosts. He is showing respect for his forebears and pointing out the injustices that they suffered and the effect it has had, not only on them and him, but on the country as a whole. I also suggest that “ghosts” or, as I prefer to term it, “history”, ought to be there for our guidance – so that we do not perpetuate or make the same mistake again. Therefore, no matter how you choose to look at it, Bushy is RIGHT! And, either wittingly or unwittingly you confirm this with each and ever comment you have made on this thread.
As for you and your accountant friend on the subject of owning shares in Barbados, what a load of balls. Have a look at shares globally and stories of major international companies that have gone down the tubes, many on the basis of fraudulent acts by their officers. If your accountant had warned against the purchase of shares generally, this I could have understood and even applauded. But to add the words “in Barbados” shows a degree of ignorance of worldwide trends that makes me suggest that you use the accountant to prepare and file your tax returns, but that you NEVER take his advice on investments.
BTW, some years ago, I was asked to invest a significant sum in CLICO. I applied the old adage, “If it looks too good to be true, it usually is.” To me, it looked too good to be true. I refused. And I suffered the derision of certain contemporary members of my family who took great joy in pointing out to me just how well their finances were doing as a result of having placed ALL their money with CLICO. Today, I have to exercise strong restraint not to say “I told you so” when they apply to me for loans to tide them over, all because of their CLICO investments. The two most regrettable traits of humanity are stupidity and greed. Combined, they are fatal. But greed is the most damaging.
It was GREED that caused investors to put their all into CLICO. AND it was GREED that prevented (and continues to prevent) companies from bringing on board their employees as shareholders so that they are, in effect, working for themselves, which would add to far greater dimension of pride and industry to their work ethics.
And as for Government selling out, that is a cop out. Government cannot sell what it does not own or control. All it can do is facilitate the wishes to sell of the owners. And yes, take a backhand for their assistance. If Barbados is being sold out, it is because too many people are objecting to Barbados being sold out – EXCEPT WHERE THEIR OWN INTERESTS ARE CONCERNED!!!!
@Bushie
I with you. John forget that the white structures in place had./have militated against the develpment of meaningful black businesses, similarly the role bmla used insurance money to help whites consolidate and help stiffled blacks. John need to check out why chicken geoge failed, He was sabotaged by the wite chickenproducers, aided and abetted by the policymakers. John needs to repsond to why Barbados Lumber Company succeded aginst all the odd, Had it not for been Pat Rousseau, the local white busness oliigarph would have succeeded in preventing this balck firm from succeeding/, Ask Brankers what trouble he had had in trying to source capital in his formative years of his business. These are just a few examples. Many can be told, if Barabdians would only put pen to paper,
I am amazed that a lot of use do not seem to understand the significane of not selling off our lands, but then again we have become so myopic in out thinking that we believe that our land must be sold to the highest bidder and soon we will not own much of the land and the masses will become modern day slaves.
So what is the answer ! on one side we have those whose arguments are for “birthrights” while on the other side ” it is the economy stupid” although both arguments are relevant there must be a balance and the question remains on how does one approach these concerns without throwing out the baby with the bath tub. it is evedient that both sides have good arguments and are well intented in developing a better barbados . however the reality is that an economy needs money to survive and the impact is real giving what our country is going through at this time . However the people birth right should not be taken lightly and sold out at any cost to the highest bidder . An economy “To sustain” and our birth right ” to protect not an easy answer
@ Amused
Thank you. …and with your brilliant submission, Bushie rest his case.
@ John
You are so confused that you are your own worse enemy…. who cares if your parents started from scratch? … even if that were to be the case, you are probably one of only a dozen or so of such whites in Barbados. ….Is that true for the majority of others?
…and even those that started from scratch…. look where they have managed to go WITH CLEARLY LIMITED CAPABILITIES… (wuh you aint feel Bushie went to school with them….?)
…like those who rose to the top of BS&T, SAGICOR, etc -whose main abilities lie in underhand scheming.
….perhaps you know why your family was treated like outcasts, but that does NOT change the general argument.
Bushie’s advice to you is this…. confine these types of propaganda campaigns to BFP where like-minded editors will defend you and block those willing to speak the difficult TRUTH. BUT dont bring that $h** to BU and expect to get away with it…this kitchen has HEAT in it.
When is selling and or mortgaging ones birthright negotiable?
@ ac
HUSH your mouth and go long to church do.
What wishy washy nonsense you bringing now – and know that John gone and get Bushy vex…???
What ‘middle of the road solution’ you looking for?
SOME THINGS ARE JUST RIGHT OR WRONG!
You do NOT sell out your birthrights.
….you see what Porter mean now? That is the same logic that Eve used with Adam; and Delilah used on Sampson -“let us compromise our principles a bit, in the interest of ‘balance’ and making some profits”.
Have a chat with MR. ac before posting and he will help to bring some balance to your contributions… 🙂
ac
however the reality is that an economy needs money to survive and the impact is real giving what our country is going through at this time .
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Here I am going to be radical and suggest an economy does not need money!!
If an activity qualifies as being economical and should be considered a part of the economy, I would suggest it generates its own money as surplus and is sustaining.
If it is necessary to keep borrowing money or selling the family silver to sustain an economic activity I suggest that the activity cannot be economical.
Barbados land use policy is to use less land for housing the lower and middle income Bajans.
High rise towers for them while the rich will build their mansions on 1 to 10 acre lots.
Bushie and Amused have dealt with the the “BFP educated” John.
Intellectual lilliputians should not mess with Bushie and Amused.
@ bushy
There is a lot of emotion in these arguments and in fairness to all we have to see the issue through various lenses and not as a simplistic or holistic approach with one side being right and the other being stupid. Look at Cuba with all the land but because of their policies of exclusiveness there people are suffering but yes they have protect their birth right at at a high cost. There must be a balance and being self righteousness and hard line is not the approach it is the way we seek resolve and not the way resolve is seek! Yes by the way MR. ac says he agree with you so you see even though me and mr AC have differing point of view we do make a perfect couple because of our ability to compromise
Blogger2012 | April 29, 2012 at 5:20 AM |
Had it not for been Pat Rousseau, the local white busness oliigarph would have succeeded in preventing this balck firm from succeeding.
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You mean Pat Rousseau the former president of the WICB … or was it WICBC?
Wasn’t he a Jamaican?
Is this the guy you are referring to?
http://www.myersfletcher.com/consultants/item/patrick-rousseau.html
Bush Tea | April 29, 2012 at 8:37 AM |
@ John
You are so confused that you are your own worse enemy…. who cares if your parents started from scratch? … even if that were to be the case, you are probably one of only a dozen or so of such whites in Barbados. ….Is that true for the majority of others?
…and even those that started from scratch…. look where they have managed to go WITH CLEARLY LIMITED CAPABILITIES… (wuh you aint feel Bushie went to school with them….?)
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Still ain’t dealing with facts BT …!!!
When you get there let me know!!
A characteristic of the Bajan which is a strength but yet a weakness is our capacity to be ambivalent about all issues under the sun.
David | April 29, 2012 at 8:39 AM |
When is selling and or mortgaging ones birthright negotiable?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Define birthright.
@John
It is simple and it is referenced in our national anthem quoted above.
It is the an important the most ingredient in a philosophy and guiding principle which we should adhere as a country.
It ultimately defines what is Barbadian. If we compromise this most important guiding principle our identity becomes blurred and the result is that we become confused.
Barbados was built by continuously exploiting black people starting with slavery.
The country has made remarkable “progress? ” and has cloned the capitqlist materialism and culture of the UK and North America.
We still need to become firm craftsmen of our fate if it is possible.
I will now fight this addiction to BU, turn off the ipl cricket on the TV and go fishing for Rainbow trout.
@ david
Trivialise or reality?
Sorry but unlike you I shall refrain from romanticising the issue of land management. Whatever you do requires LAND, and the objective of any well managed land policy is to strike a balance between the economic, social and environmental dimensions. None of the three is static, therefore your policy ought not to be and this is where EVIDENCE procured through ongoing monitoring and evaluation becomes critical.
Ownership is secondary for the mere fact that land is immobile and can’t be exported, USE is the key concern it is not altered (well not suppose to be) based on passport. What difference does it make from a land use perspective if the west coast projects were locally owned? None!!!
I put it to you again, that a large majority of the much maligned West Coast projects involved the Redevelopment of sites and more efficient than the previous use. Where is your evidence to support your claim? I further argue that our perception of housing has to shift from quantity i.e size to quality–hurricane resistant, wheelchair accessible, energy efficient etc
but more about pushing ourselves to be as creative in creating productive sectors to build out a wholesome society of which the economy is a part.
Sounds lovely but some examples?
@enuff
You know how some of us hate these circular conversations which border on the pedantic. Just do a search on BU or the Internet for that matter and see if you find the details associated with the land at Sandy Lane which was bought by David Shorey and subsequently suffered a change of use? Who was the land sold to at enormous profit? Let us get real man.
Put away the text books!
yes ! no right thinking person would want to sell off their birth right but also on the other side of the coin is the realisation that protecting that right comes with responsibilities which one might not able to fulfilled so the question remains how does one seek resolution in keeping what is yours and living up to the responsibilities that come along with it.
@ Enuff
…further to David’s response, are you serious in asking “what difference does it make that the west Coast is foreign owned…?
….you related to John? …. you both need similar help…
Look at who are making the decisions about our future….
Look at who are bribing our politicians…..
…who do you think will decide if those 500 people from Almond have work, or how much they work for?
Go back to the analogy of Bushie investing is some rooms of your family home. When the bushman have invested ‘enuff’, who do you think will be fixing the wife and daughters…?
..why would Bushie care about your kith and kin? except to the extent that it serves the bushman’s purpose…?
@ ac
Bushie always knew that there had to be a good side to ac….. now we know that it is MR ac.
in future, check with him before making complex decisions and ALWAYS follow his advice …(don’t mind wutless Islandgal…)
In answer to your question of how to protect our birthright while being able to eat….?
The same answer that Bushie have been giving to Enuff… GET UP OFF OUR LAZY BACKSIDES AND BE THRIFTY, CREATIVE AND PRODUCTIVE…and stop seeking to justify being mendicant at best, and prostitutes at worst.
Hants | April 29, 2012 at 9:12 AM |
I will now fight this addiction to BU, turn off the ipl cricket on the TV and go fishing for Rainbow trout.
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Salmon fishing on the pacific coast is also great.
Fantastic scenery and wildlife to boot.
A once in a lifetime experience for me but one I will never forget.
@ bushie so you see what i mean. Simplistic sound bites to complex and complicated issues. However the question still remains and one that you have avoided where does the overall economy and its connection to land usage fit. i think there is point at where we draw the line and to whom the land is sold. however the reality of seeing land go to waste is not the answer. how many barbadians are wealthy enough to sustain our tourism and housing industry i meaning a lot of factors should be weighed into making sensible an reasonable decision
Here is another fallacy which needs to be debunk. While is is good if those on the blog are able to hatch solutions to the myriad of challenges which beset us, in the event we can’t, it does not preempt John Citizen’s right to express outrage. In this case the obvious lack of a coherent strategy as it related to how physical resources is addressed. The fact that the Prime Minister at the stroke of a pen can overrule technocrats at the T&P should concern sensible citizens in an environment where FOIA and complementary laws are absent.
David | April 29, 2012 at 10:17 AM |
@enuff
You know how some of us hate these circular conversations which border on the pedantic. Just do a search on BU or the Internet for that matter and see if you find the details associated with the land at Sandy Lane which was bought by David Shorey and subsequently suffered a change of use? Who was the land sold to at enormous profit? Let us get real man.
Put away the text books!
+++++++++++++++++++
BT, any comments?
@ david
You are all over the place.
With my little knowledge of the David Shorey incident, it appears to be a case of preferential treatment/discrimination/corruption/maladministration (which was wrong) and whomever was aggrieved should have put the CTP in court. Apart from the injustice meted out to the previous owner, what was the impact of the change? Is Dodds prison agriculture?
@enuff
The issue of maladministration of how our physical resource is managed is not contained in a discrete way. We have to go wherever the issues manifest. How can you feel so confident that with the tainted system exemplified by the Sandy Lance issue it is not system? Hence the reason for the ongoing concern.
Blogger2012 | April 29, 2012 at 5:20 AM |
@Bushie
I with you. John forget that the white structures in place had./have militated against the develpment of meaningful black businesses, similarly the role bmla used insurance money to help whites consolidate and help stiffled blacks. John need to check out why chicken geoge failed, He was sabotaged by the wite chickenproducers, aided and abetted by the policymakers. John needs to repsond to why Barbados Lumber Company succeded aginst all the odd, Had it not for been Pat Rousseau, the local white busness oliigarph would have succeeded in preventing this balck firm from succeeding/, Ask Brankers what trouble he had had in trying to source capital in his formative years of his business. These are just a few examples. Many can be told, if Barabdians would only put pen to paper,
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
So, is Pat Rousseau the same guy as I suggested … former WICB/C president?
IF he his could you tell me if he is black or white?
… I’ll let you (BT too so he doesn’t feel left out) into a secret … his features are finer than mine!! …. not that I envy him that!
Isn’t Rawle Branker the son of J.E.T. Branker (Sir) the speaker of the house from 1961 – 66 and then 1966-71?
Could there also be a political dimension?
@ John
….don’t you know when to call it quits…?
how much longer will you keep getting back up from the mat to take more body blows.?
..tek care you don’t get an unlucky knockout blow….
Bushie’s advice is to stay down for the count and keep a low profile for the next couple of weeks until the bruises heal…
David” The fact that the Prime Minister at the stroke of a pen can overrule technocrats at the T&P should concern sensible citizens in an environment where FOIA and complementary laws are absent.”
It is for that reason that I Hants will never forgive and forget.
As for John, your half truths and insinuations will not taunt me into telling you about the problems men like Rawle faced when trying to start a business that was dominated by white Barbados.
The protectionism exhibited by Barbados white business included controlling the importation of goods to Barbados.
And John I am pleased you were able to go fishing for Salmon in the Pacific for your once in a lifetime experience.
I can’t afford to travel so I have to content myself fishing for Salmon,Rainbow trout and Brown trout in the GTA.
Bushie BU like it giving me good luck fishing. Caught a nice rainbow trout today.
That is 3 in the past 2 days. Teach a boy to fish and he will feed himself for a lifetime.
So if you can find a tract to get to the beach you can still catch cavallys and bay snappers.You can even catch pompers if you can find black sea eggs. But you have to get past the security guards.
Waittttttttttt..Hants a true Bajan fa trute….pompas ? Man you kno bout pompas…man you from Silver Sands side right ?….boss Onions catch D biggest Pompa behind Wall now in decades..68 lbs..white crab bait…land it pun Siver Sands beach back in 08… Wait Hants..and u gone Cdn..catching lil fish ? Boy u want licks….Biggest Cavalli caught was probably 46 lbs in Edward’s Hole..way back….Yo bosss…blood a D blood !
fa while ..thought you did Jonesing…
@Byshie
As u say, john doesnt seem to know when to go and hide under a rock. He seems not to undestand what i am saying, perhaps his thoughts are still with the plantation society The barbadso mutual helped the white planter class to consoildate their landholdings and make it almost impossible for the freed blacks to acquire land. Educate john on how and why the savings society emerged, the forerunner to the credit union movement, and how some barbadian develop stageties to overcome the barries placed in their way to prevent them from acquring land, for example, black barbadians who went to panama pooled their resoureces to acquire a plantaion etc. John can check with retired knighted professor Marshall.
The point i am making is tha Rouseau was more liberated than the remanants of the planter class from which John emerge. He needs to understand the sociology of what i am saying to apprecaite it, but then again I am not surprised as his response.
@John
U r enetering my domain, when i write, i write from a position of knowledge and research which i have done, I can write long winding blogs if i wish, but i know they are a turn off to most people.
@ old onion bags ” fa while ..thought you did Jonesing…” I don’t “Jones” my friend.
I have a bonafide Barbados fishing resume including 6 months fishing for flying fish in the 80s.
I have fished (night fishing on the beach) from oistins to riverbay and at Bath, conset bay, skeets bay and off the rocks somewhere near fortescue. The fellas called it hannicles and it was about 300 feet above the sea.
When it comes to fishing I have the credentials.
That is why I leave the more intellectual endeavors on BU to Bushie aand Amused.
@ Blogger2012
You have to understand John. He ain’t a bad person personally, and it must be devastating for him to come to grips with the reality of his ancestors (mis) deeds. He has taken the path of denial, surmising that things could NOT have been as bad as Bushie is making it out to have been – and that his dear departed ‘Planters’ must have been misunderstood.
Over on BFP he had a ball – quoting Hughes (probably one of his cousins) and blaming ordinary Bajans for our ‘weak families’ and aversion to risking our money in companies which have all his brothers, sisters, cousins and in-laws on the Boards.
But BU is another ballgame altogether….this is a wicket for pace, spin don’t mark fat here….
David I had windows 7 installed on my laptop and it doesn’t work well with “wordpress”.
Any idea why?
@Hants
Please be specific to allow for proper research.
What is happening at your end?
@Hants
Will scan the Support Forum when time allows to see if this is an issue.
In the meantime type your comment in word or some other application and then copy it over to the comments box on the blog.
Bushie ent kno nuttin bout fishin….he too country …we so got sea water runnin in we viens…Bushie got Digga sweet potatoe and cucumbers…..lol
What gine on Bushie….you know how to toss a wishie…or grig an slack back..?
After I have typed a few lines
The window goes behind the log in window
I will try to duplicate the problem. It seems to happen if i type a long paragraph like I am trying to do now so I duplicate the problem. I must be my long fishing stories. this line is hidden behind the email address window so I have to type without seeing what I am typing.
This line is now below the website pane.
I will just be careful until a fix is found.
old onion bags wrote “Bushie ent kno nuttin bout fishin”.
Bushie can barter provisions and veggies for fish.
@ Old onions
LOL … Bushie was wondering how long it would take you to get over the hangover from East Coast Road last night 🙂
….what do you want to bet that when things get tight tight bout here – Bushie will be eating fresh fish…?
Bushie grew up on the coast skippa….
Hants; I have the same problem but there is an easy solution. Just click in one of the small windows with your email address or pseudonym and those windows move down the page away from covering your typing. When they come back up (if it is a long post) click in one of them again.
Or you could try fox.
I meant Firefox above, not fox
Thanks Checkit-Out. Will try your recommendation.
Bushie when I wrote you know everything I like I was right.
Here I thinking I could come to Barbados, catch some fish and barter with you for some fruit and veggies.
It might be useful to use a Caribbean example to see where a land use policy that facilitates the temporary, long term or otherwise transfer of land to foreign enterprises might take us. The Cayman islands is a good example.
There, the locals constitute a minority (at least visibly) of the population.
Foreigners from the USA, Australia, the Philipines, etc. carry out practically all the visible tasks from Hotel clerks to professionals in the Offshore Banking industry. Teaching is still the province of Caribbean nationals many from Barbados. Menial tasks appear to be reserved, in the main for Jamaicans, Cubans and Hondurans, but there are a number of rich Jamaicans also in many areas of endeavour.
Top Government Jobs are predominantly held by foreigners (many from the Caribbean, but a significant number from extraregional countries) except for Immigration where Caymanians maintain an excessively strict immigration policy
There is no appreciable agriculture except for a Juice processing plant (citrus) owned and operated by a foreigner. But there are some beautiful prize winning cattle reared primarily for exhibitions by rich Caymanians.
Practically all agricultural produce is shipped in on a daily basis from nearby Miami. There is not even a bakery in Grand Cayman There are no agro-industries in Cayman.
The police, that used to have a significant Barbadian component but is now declining, has a number of uniformed Bobbies from England no less, doing such stuff as traffic control (Speed limit 40ish km/hr.)
There is little crime in comparison with the rest of the Caribbean.
Unions are definitely not encouraged. The extranationals put down any strikes with extreme violence.
Several locals have become millionaires from the sale / lease of their land to rich foreigners and have adopted a life of leisurely fishing, etc.
Caymanians fish for turtles and receive rents for their properties rented to foreigners.
Political practice appears to be particularly effete and milquetoast in Cayman as compared with the robust politics practiced in Barbados. But there seems to be some evidence of corruption rearing its ugly head in the body politic nowadays.
The country appears to be very prosperous, with perhaps just one little enclave of apparent poverty. People do most of their shopping in Miami which is just hop away by Cayman Airlines.
The Caymanian model (the Bahamas and Bermuda is similar) appears to be very attractive to our politicians who spout support for agriculture to the press and at political meetings but act totally differently as viewed from relative allocations to agriculture over the decades.
.
@enuff
You asked in your 5:14 pm 28 April 2012 blog: And what does leasing and local investor involvement accomplish besides preventing foreign ownership? How does it engender a ‘robust’ land use policy?
Such will somewhat achieve what is not already achieved or enuffly achieved, e.g.,
1) Lessening the political power and influence that foreigners who have substantial land rights ownership have in certain affairs of this country – look what is happening in relationship to the Almond Beach debacle involving Neal and Massy, and how three non-Barbados born, local land rights owning business people are fighting to get more of these rights while many Barbadian born people – those whose navel strings are buried right here have very litttle say in what is happening there. Truth is many of us must feel like real outsiders in “our own” country.
.
2) Accreting greater power and responsibility to a national governmental political legal regime that will ensure that the owning of such rights become more in pursuance of a strong nation society building integrationist agenda, and not the continuation with such a land right ownership regime that cares very litttle about such a strong nation society building integrationist agenda, but more about the very greedy selfish economic agendas of those who have substantial political financial wherewithal as veritablydrawn from this very extant and backward land right owning oligarchic financially bank supporting architecture.
3) Such a regime will surely inspire and exalt many more Barbadians into owning their own lands space rights for productive residential commercial purposes – hence the great possibility of substantial real saving and investment being carried out by such Barbadians to help make sure that these ventures are enabled.
We will not go on without saying the following – that where a future PDC Government is concerned, rights over such lands shall only be bought sold or leased at nominal administrative costs. Such will help make sure that the substantial amounts of unproductive money and underused resources and services that have long been going into such low level/ productive activity go where better use will be made of them in a significantly evolved productive sectors of this country.
PDC
@ Hants
Bushie when I wrote you know everything I like I was right.
******************
LOL if Bushie knew everything then the entity formerly known as CH would be explainable…
.de body you REALLY mean is BU David….. now THERE is a man who knows everything… 🙂
Well, …. I gave it almost a whole day to see if the answers to the simple questions I asked would have been fortcoming.
The reluctance of bloggers to answer them speaks volumes.
Figured they would not be answered and I was not disappointed.
Just one more for BT.
Can you show the link between David Shorey, Owen Arthur and the old planters to substantiate the claim made of the top of your head earlier in thread?
My bet is there will be more persoanal attacks ….. and no answers!!
Not a problem for me!!