King James Bible Marks 400th Anniversary

Ancient copies of the Bible were carried during a procession to Westminster Abbey's altar

Today is the 400th anniversary of the King James Bible. A special celebratory service was held at Westminster Abbey today. It was the Bible, commissioned by a King, that made the Word of God available to all English-speaking people so that they were no longer reliant on translations by those who could read Latin. It allowed the common man to drink, as it were, straight from the bottle.

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  • Nnaki/Raelian, I challenge you, to cogently, coherently, objectively, scientifically, and, if possible, logically and honestly, to refute, what I posted earlier re the historic veracity of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ; and likewise, the following; Remember, Nnaki/Raelian, NO imagenary folly and unsupported, Star Trek nonsense. Take your time, don’t choke now; this ain’t no JACKASS, in your Pythonated gut!

    Adam, Eve and Noah vs Modern Genetics
    by Dr Robert W. Carter

    Published: 11 May 2010(GMT+10)

    The evolutionary map of world migrations is startlingly close to the biblical account of a single dispersal of people from Babel. The evolutionary “Out of Africa” theory tells us there was a single dispersal of people, centered near and travelling through the Middle East, with three main mitochondrial lineages, with people traveling in small groups into previously uninhabited territory, and that all of this occurred in the recent past. Every item in that list is something directly predicted by the Tower of Babel account in the Bible. (Image http://www.mitomap.org).
    It comes as a surprise to most people to hear that there is abundant evidence that the entire human race came from two people just a few thousand years ago (Adam and Eve), that there was a serious population crash (bottleneck) in the recent past (at the time of the Flood), and that there was a single dispersal of people across the world after that (the Tower of Babel).1 It surprises them even more to learn that much of this evidence comes from evolutionary scientists. In fact, an abundant testimony to biblical history has been uncovered by modern geneticists. It is there for anyone to see, if they know where to look!

    For our purposes, the most important places to look are in the Y chromosome (which is only found in males and which is passed on directly from father to son) and in the mitochondrial DNA (a small loop of DNA that we nearly always inherit from our mothers only; males do not pass it on to their children). These two pieces of DNA record some startling facts about our past.

    Over the last decade, a vast amount of information has been collected that allows us to answer questions that we could not even consider earlier. The tools of modern genetics allow us to specifically ask questions about history, for our genes carry a record that reflects where we came from and how we got to where we are. The tools at our disposal are powerful.

    Creation and genetics

    There are two brief passages in the Creation account we can use to draw some conclusions about human genetic history. Please note that we cannot use these verses for land animals (because we do not know how many of each kind were initially created) or any of the swimming critters (“with which the waters abounded”—Gen 1:21). These statements apply to people only:

    “And the Lord God formed man out of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being.” Gen 2:7
    “And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.” Gen 2:21–22
    These simple statements have profound implications. They put a limit on the amount of diversity we should find in people living today. The Bible clearly says the human race started out with two people only. But how different were these two people? There is an intriguing possibility that Eve was a clone of Adam. The science of cloning involves taking DNA from an organism and using it to manufacture an almost perfect copy of the original. Here, God is taking a piece of flesh, with cells, organelles, and, importantly, Adam’s DNA, and using it to manufacture a woman. Of course, she could not be a perfect clone, because she was a girl! But what if God had taken Adam’s genome and used it to manufacture Eve? All he would have had to do was to leave out Adam’s Y chromosome and double his X chromosome and, voilá, instant woman!

    I do not know if Eve was genetically identical to Adam. The only reason I bring this up is because we have two possibilities in our biblical model of human genetic history: one original genome or two. Either result is still vastly different from the most popular evolutionary models,2 but we need to discuss the range of possibilities that the Bible allows.

    Your genome is like an encyclopedia (almost literally). And, like an encyclopedia, the genome is broken down into volumes, called chromosomes, but you have two copies of each volume (with the exception of the X and Y chromosomes; women have two Xs but men have one X and one Y). Imagine comparing two duplicate volumes side by side and finding that one word in a particular sentence is spelled differently in each volume (perhaps “color” vs “colour”). Can you see that if Eve was a clone of Adam, there would have been, at most, two possible variants at any point in the genome? If Eve was not a clone, however, there would have been, at most, four possible variants at any point in the genome (because each of the original chromosomes came in four copies). This still allows for a lot of diversity overall, but it restricts the variation at any one spot to 2, 3, or 4 original readings.

    Does this fit the evidence? Absolutely! Most variable places in the genome come in two versions and these versions are spread out across the world. There are some highly variable places that seem to contradict this, but most of these are due to mutations that occurred in the different subpopulations after Babel.

    There are indications, however, that Eve may not have been a clone. The ABO blood group is a textbook example of a gene with more than two versions.3 There are three main versions of the blood type gene (A, B, and O). However, many, but not all, people with type O blood carry something that looks very much like a mutant A (the mutation prevents the manufacturing of the type A trait on the outside of cells). So here is a gene with more than two versions, but one of the main versions is clearly a mutation. This is true for many other genes, although, as usual, there are exceptions. The important take home point is that essentially all of the genetic variation among people today could have been carried within two people, if you discount mutations that occurred after our dispersion across the globe. This is a surprise to many.

    The Flood and genetics

    Like in the Creation story, there are only a few verses in the Flood account that help us with our model. But as seen before, these verses are profound.

    Like in the Creation story, there are only a few verses in the Flood account that help us with our model. But as seen before, these verses are profound. About 10 generations after Creation, a severe, short bottleneck occurred in the human population. From untold numbers of people, the entire world population was reduced to eight souls with only three reproducing couples.

    “So Noah, with his sons, his wife, and his sons’ wives, went into the ark because of the waters of the flood.” Gen 7:7
    “Now the sons of Noah who went out of the ark were Shem, Ham, and Japheth… These three were the sons of Noah, and from these the whole earth was populated.” Gen 9:18–19
    We can draw many important deductions from these statements. For instance, based on Genesis 7 and 9, how many Y chromosomes were on the Ark? The answer: one. Yes, there were four men, but Noah gave his Y chromosome to each of his sons. Unless there was a mutation (entirely possible), each of the sons carried the exact same Y chromosome. We do not know how much mutation occurred prior to the flood. With the long life spans of the antediluvian patriarchs, it may be reasonable to assume little mutation had taken place, but all of Creation, including the human genome, had been cursed, so it may not be wise to conclude that there was no mutation prior to the Flood. The amount of mutation may be a moot point, however, for, if it occurred, the Flood should have wiped out most traces of it (all of it in the case of the Y chromosome).

    How many mitochondrial DNA lineages were on the Ark? The answer: three. Yes, there were four women, but the Bible does not record Noah’s wife as having any children after the Flood (in this case, girl children). And notice the claim in Gen 9:19, “These three were the sons of Noah, and from these the whole earth was populated.” This is a strong indication that Noah’s wife did not contribute anything else to the world’s population. With no prohibition against sibling marriage, yet,4 one or more of the daughters-in-law may have been her daughter, but this does not change the fact that, at first glance, we expect a maximum of three mitochondrial lineages in the current world population. There is a chance that there will be less, if there was very little mutation before the Flood or if several of the daughters-in-law were closely related. At most, we do not expect more than four.

    How many X chromosome lineages were on the Ark? That depends. If you count it all up, you get eight. If, by chance, Noah’s wife passed on the same X chromosome to each of her three sons (25% probability), then there were seven. If Noah had a daughter after the Flood (not expected, but possible), there could be as many as nine X chromosome lineages. Either way, this is a considerable amount of genetic material. And since X chromosomes recombine (in females), we are potentially looking at a huge amount of genetic diversity within the X chromosomes of the world.

    Does this fit the evidence? Absolutely! It turns out that Y chromosomes are similar worldwide. According to the evolutionists, no “ancient” (i.e., highly mutated or highly divergent) Y chromosomes have been found.5 This serves as a bit of a puzzle to the evolutionist, and they have had to resort to calling for a higher “reproductive variance” among men than women, high rates of “gene conversion” in the Y chromosome, or perhaps a “selective sweep” that wiped out the other male lines.6 For the biblical model, it is a beautiful correlation and we can take it as is.

    The evidence from mitochondrial DNA fits our model just as neatly as the Y chromosome data. As it turns out, there are three main mitochondrial DNA lineages found across the world. The evolutionists have labeled these lines “M”, “N”, and “R”, so we’ll refer to them by the same names. They would not say these came off the Ark. They claim they were derived from older lines found in Africa, but this is based on a suite of assumptions (I discussed these in detail in a recent article in the Journal of Creation7). It also turns out that M, N, and R differ by only a few mutations. This gives us some indication of the amount of mutation that occurred in the generations prior to the Flood.

    Let’s assume ten female generations from Eve to the ladies on the Ark. M and N are separated by about 8 mutations (a small fraction of the 16,500 letters in the mitochondrial genome). R is only 1 mutation away from N. This is an indication of the mutational load that occurred before the Flood. Given the assumption that mutations occur at equal rates in all lines, about four mutations separate M and N each from Eve (maybe four mutations in each line in ten generations). But what about R? It is very similar to N. Were N and R sisters, or perhaps more closely related to each other than they were to M? We’ll never know, but it sure is fascinating to think about.

    One more line of evidence crops up in the amount of genetic diversity that has been found within people worldwide. Essentially, much less has been found than most (i.e., evolutionists!) predicted. The general lack of diversity among people is the reason the Out of Africa model has humanity going through a disastrous, near-extinction bottleneck with only about 10,000 (and perhaps as few as 1,000)8 people surviving. However, the reason for this lack of diversity is twofold. First, the human race started out with only two people. Second, the human race is not that old and has not accumulated a lot of mutations, despite the high mutation rate. Third, there actually was a bottleneck event, Noah’s Flood!

    The Tower of Babel and genetics

    The Tower of Babel has been a favorite bedtime story for generations. But is it more than a fairy tale? Could it be possible that there is evidence to back up this tale of rebellion and judgment? Like the Creation and Flood accounts, there are only a couple of verses that apply to our model of genetics. But, like the others, these verses are as profound as they are simple.

    “Now the whole earth had one language and one speech.” Gen 11:1
    “And they said, ‘Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top is in the heavens; let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.’” Gen 11:4
    It sounds like they were in a homogenous culture, but what do people in that situation do? Would you expect them to mix freely? Were language or cultural barriers present that would have prevented the sons of Shem from marrying the daughters of Japheth? Would the daughters of Ham be expected to marry freely with the sons of any of the three men? Note in Gen 11:4 that they knew about the potential for spreading out and getting separated from one another and intentionally did the opposite! However, this was against the express command of God, who had ordered them to spread out (to populate the earth). So, He took matters into His own hands.

    “’Come, let Us go down and confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.’ So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of all the earth, and they ceased building the city.” Gen 11:7–8

    There are tremendous implications that come from the Babel account. First it explains the amazing cultural connectivity of ancient peoples—like pyramid building, common flood legends, and ancient, non-Christian genealogies that link people back to biblical figures (e.g., many of the royal houses of pagan northern Europe go back to Japheth, the son of Noah9).

    The dramatic rise in world population over the past several decades is a well known fact. From a biblical perspective, the current human population easily fits into the standard model of population growth using very conservative parameters.10 In fact, starting with 6 people and doubling the population every 150 years more than accounts for the current human population (a growth rate of less than 0.5% per year!). Population size would have increased quickly given the rate at which the post-Flood population reestablished agriculture, animal husbandry, industry and civilization. So we must ask the question, “Why are there so few people in the world today?” The answer is that the world is young and we have not been here many thousands of years.

    When did the dispersion occur? Our best clue about the timing of the event comes from Genesis 10:25. In referencing the 5th generation descendent of Shem, a man named Peleg, it says, “in his days the earth was divided.” To what is this referring? Many people believe this is referring to a division of the landmasses (plate tectonics). This may be true, but it would require a huge amount of geologic activity after the Flood, and this would have occurred in historical times with no record of the events. The interpretation I favor is that this passage is referring to the division of people at Babel. Just a few verses after the Peleg reference, the section is summed up with another reference to the division at Babel. This fits both the context and the science. In context, Peleg was closely associated with Babel.

    How large was the population at the time? We would expect rapid population growth, but we cannot know exactly. There are 16 named sons born to the three brothers, Shem, Ham and Japheth. If we assume about the same number of daughters, Noah had on the order of 30 grandchildren. At that rate of growth, there would have been about 150 children in Salah’s generation, about 750 in Eber’s generation, and about 3,750 in Peleg’s generation. Of course, these generations overlap, etc., so let’s say there were between 1,000 and 10,000 people alive at the time of Babel. This fits nicely with the available data. It is a high rate of growth, but wars and disease had yet to start taking their toll.

    There is one more verse in this section that we need to discuss:

    “These were the families of the sons of Noah, according to their generations, in their nations; and from these the nations were divided on the earth after the flood.” Gen 10:32

    At Babel, God did not separate the nations according to language. He used language to separate them according to paternal (male) ancestry! This has monumental significance and is the key to understanding human genetic history.

    Do you see the implication in this simple verse? At Babel, God did not separate the nations according to language. He used language to separate them according to paternal (male) ancestry! This has monumental significance and is the key to understanding human genetic history. Paternal sorting would lead to specific Y chromosome lineages in different geographical locations. Since males and females from the three main families should have been freely intermixing prior to this, it also leads to a mixing of the mitochondrial lines. It is as if God put all the people into a giant spreadsheet and hit a button called “Sort According to Father.” He then took that list and used it to divide up and separate the nations.

    We already saw that Y chromosomes have little variation among them. We now add the fact that this little bit of variation is almost always geographically specific. That is, after the nations were separated according to Y chromosome, mutations occurred in the various lines. Since the lines were sent to specific geographical areas, the mutations are geographically specific. The current distribution of Y chromosome lines is a tremendous confirmation of the biblical model.

    Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) adds another confirmation. We have already learned that there are three main lineages of mtDNA. We now add the fact that these three lineages are more or less randomly distributed across the world. Also, the various mutations within each of the three main families of mtDNA are geographically specific as well.11 In other words, as the three mixed mitochondrial lines were carried along with the Y chromosome dispersal, each line in each area began to pick up new mutations, just like we would predict.

    After the Flood

    The last remaining significant reference in the Bible that will help us build our model of human genetic history is called The Table of Nations. It is found in Genesis chapters 9 and 10. The Table of Nations is a record of the post-Babel tribes, who they descended from, and where they went. If the Bible is an accurate source of history, one might expect to be able to find a significant amount of evidence for the Table of Nations in genetic data. The truth is not that simple, however, and it is important to keep several things in mind. First, the account was written by a person in the Middle East and from a Middle Eastern perspective. It is incomplete in that there are huge sections of the world that are not discussed (sub-Saharan Africa, Northern Europe, Most of Asia, Australia, the Americas, and Oceania). It also reflects a snapshot in time. It was written after the dispersion began, but not necessarily before the dispersion was complete. Indeed, much has changed in the intervening years. People groups have migrated, cultures have gone extinct, languages have changed, separate cultures have merged, etc. The history of man has been full of ebb and flow as people mixed or fought, resisted invasion or were conquered. The history of man since Babel is very complicated. Modern genetics can answer some of the big questions, but answers to many of the smaller details may elude us forever.

    This is an important topic for the creation model. The world does not look at the Bible in a favorable light. In fact, it disparages it, sometimes with open hostility. Attacks are often centered on the claim that the Bible is not reliable on historical grounds, and if the history of the Bible is inaccurate, what about the theology? Think about what Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3:12, “If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?” Many people today see no history in the Bible; therefore, the spiritual implications are meaningless to them. What would happen for evangelism if the history of the Bible turns out to be true after all?

    Related articles
    The Non-Mythical Adam and Eve! Refuting errors by Francis Collins and BioLogos
    Genetics: no friend of evolution
    The genetics of skin colour in people—something fishy?
    Professor of genetics says ‘No!’ to evolution
    Genetics and God’s natural selection
    One Blood: Chapter 3—Genetics and the human family
    Genetics and Biblical demographic events
    Corals, genes and creation
    Is there enough time in the Bible to account for all the human genetic diversity?

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  • Island girl star trek made more sense, Here is another intriguing tale. Jesus is standing on the Mount of Olives and lo and behold he is mysteriously swept into the clouds. Can I say aliens or angels . BTW didn’t gravity exist at that time!

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  • not to forget that JESUS took five barley loaves and two small fish and fed five thousand people .there is a moral to that story only if the jesus people would see it. but unfortunately they are trapped into a world of supposition and magic

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  • One Blood
    The biblical answer to racism

    by Ken Ham, Dr Don Batten and Dr Carl Wieland

    Chapter 3

    Genetics and the human family
    Let us now apply this basic understanding of genetics to human beings. How did all the different ‘races’ arise (from Noah’s family)? First, what constitutes a ‘race’?

    In the 1800s, before Darwinian evolution was popularized, most people, when talking about ‘races,’ were referring to such groups as the ‘English race,’ ‘Irish race,’ and so on. However, this all changed when Charles Darwin published his book On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life.

    Darwinian evolution was (and still is) inherently a racist philosophy, teaching that different groups or ‘races’ of people evolved at different times and rates, so some groups are more like their ape-like ancestors than others. The Australian Aborigines, for instance, were considered to be the missing links between an ape-like ancestor and the rest of mankind.1 This resulted in terrible prejudices and injustices towards the Australian Aborigines.2 A leading evolutionary spokesperson, Stephen Jay Gould, stated that ‘Biological arguments for racism may have been common before 1850, but they increased by orders of magnitude following the acceptance of evolutionary theory.’3

    Racist attitudes fueled by evolutionary thinking were largely responsible for an African Pygmy actually being displayed, along with an orangutan, in a cage in the Bronx Zoo.4

    As a result of Darwinian evolution, many people started thinking in terms of the different people groups around the world representing different ‘races,’ but within the context of evolutionary philosophy. This has resulted in many people today, consciously or unconsciously, having ingrained prejudices against certain other groups of people.

    All human beings in the world today, however, are classified as Homo sapiens sapiens. Scientists today admit that, biologically, there really is only one race of humans. For instance, a scientist at the Advancement of Science Convention in Atlanta in 1997 stated, ‘Race is a social construct derived mainly from perceptions conditioned by events of recorded history, and it has no basic biological reality.’ This person went on to say, ‘Curiously enough, the idea comes very close to being of American manufacture.’5

    Reporting on research conducted on the concept of race, the American ABC News science page stated, ‘More and more scientists find that the differences that set us apart are cultural, not racial. Some even say that the word “race” should be abandoned because it’s meaningless.’ The article went on to say that ‘we accept the idea of race because it’s a convenient way of putting people into broad categories, frequently to suppress them … . The most hideous example was provided by Hitler’s Germany. And racial prejudice remains common throughout the world.’6

    In a 1998 article in the Journal of Counseling and Development, researchers argued that the term ‘race’ is basically so meaningless that it should be discarded.7

    Because of the influences of Darwinian evolution and the resulting prejudices, we believe everyone (and especially Christians) should abandon the term ‘races.’ We could refer instead to the different ‘people groups’ around the world.

    The Bible and ‘race’

    The Bible does not even use the word ‘race’ in reference to people,8 but does describe all human beings as being of ‘one blood’ (Acts 17:26). This, of course, emphasizes that we are all related, for all humans are descendants of the first man Adam (1 Cor. 15:45).9 Because Jesus Christ also became a descendant of Adam, being called the ‘last Adam’ (1 Cor. 15:45), the gospel should be preached to all tribes and nations. When Jesus Christ became a man (God-man), He became a descendant of Adam. Thus, He became our relative—totally man, a descendant of the first Adam, yet totally God. Any descendant of Adam can be saved, because our mutual relative by blood (Jesus Christ) died and rose again.

    ‘Racial’ differences

    Some people think there must be different ‘races’ of people because there appear to be major differences between various groups, such as skin color and eye shape.

    The truth, though, is that these so-called ‘racial characteristics’ are only minor variations among the people groups. Scientists have found that if one were to take any two people from anywhere in the world, the basic genetic differences between these two people would typically be around 0.2 percent—even if they came from the same people group.10 But, these so-called ‘racial’ characteristics that many think are major differences (skin color, eye shape, etc.) account for only 6 percent of this 0.2 percent variation, which amounts to a mere 0.012 percent difference genetically.11

    In other words, the so-called ‘racial’ differences are absolutely trivial. Overall, there is more variation within any group than there is between one group and another. If a white person is looking for a tissue match for an organ transplant, for instance, the best match may come from a black person, and vice versa. The ABC News science page stated, ‘What the facts show is that there are differences among us, but they stem from culture, not race.’12

    The only reason many people think these differences are major is because they’ve been brought up in a culture that has taught them to see the differences this way.

    According to the Bible, all people on earth today descended from Noah and his wife, his three sons and their wives, and before that from Adam and Eve (Gen. 1–11). The Bible tells us how the population that descended from Noah’s family had one language and were living together and disobeying God’s command to ‘fill the earth’ (Gen. 9:1; 11:4).13 God confused their language, causing a breakup of the population into smaller groups which scattered over the earth (Gen. 11:8–9).

    Using modern genetics, we will show how, following such a breakup of a population, variations in skin color, for example, can develop in only a few generations. And there is good evidence to show that the various groups of people we have today have not been separated for huge periods of time.14

    References and notes
    1.A.S. Brown, Missing Links with Mankind in Early Dawn of History, New York Tribune, p. 11, 10 February 1924.
    2.Carl Wieland, Darwin’s Bodysnatchers, Creation 14(2):16–18, March–May 1992. (See chapter 10, also.)
    3.Stephen Jay Gould, Ontogeny and Phylogeny, Belknap-Harvard Press, Cambridge, MA, pp. 127–128, 1977.
    4.Jerry Bergman, Ota Benga: The man who was put on display in the zoo! Creation 16(1):48–50, December

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  • ‘He made the stars also …’ (Genesis 1:16)
    Interview with creationist astronomer Danny Faulkner
    By Carl Wieland and Jonathan D.Sarfati

    Dr Danny R. Faulkner has a B.S. (Math), M.S. (Physics), M.A. & Ph.D. (Astronomy, Indiana University). He is Associate Professor at the University of South Carolina–Lancaster, where he teaches physics and astronomy. He has published about two dozen papers in various astronomy and astrophysics journals.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Photo by Richard Fangrad

    Dr Danny Faulkner speaking at the 2011 Super Conference in Canada
    Carl Wieland/Jonathan Sarfati [CW/JS]: Dr Faulkner, how did you get interested in astronomy?

    Dr Faulkner [DF]: Well, I can honestly say there hasn’t been a time in my life when I’ve not been interested in astronomy. I recall being three or four years old, looking up at the sky, being amazed at what was up there.

    CW/JS: Many people have this image of an astronomer, sitting there each night staring into a telescope.

    DF: There really aren’t any who spend all of their time looking through telescopes. The few research astronomers who do spend a good deal of time—they have to analyse the data they collect, write it up, plan future observations. So even the ‘full-time researchers’ probably only spend about two months of the year actually observing. Most astronomers, like myself, have an academic job teaching in university or other related jobs and we do research when we can. Usually I get in seven to fifteen nights a year at a local observatory and a few more when travelling elsewhere.

    How did you become a Christian?

    I had a conversion at age six. My father was a minister of a small church and just as I can’t remember not being interested in astronomy, I can’t remember not going to church.

    Some teach that the big bang theory of how the universe evolved is such an obvious fact that we should accept it as if it had been written in the ‘sixty-seventh book of the Bible’.

    I’m really concerned with people who put that much faith in the big bang. It is the overwhelmingly dominant model … But it has many problems.

    That’s absolute rubbish. I’m really concerned with people who put that much faith in the big bang. It is the overwhelmingly dominant model, and they’ve had a few impressive predictions, like the background radiation. But it has many problems—they keep changing the model to make it fit the data we have. As a Christian, my biggest concern is that it doesn’t agree at all with the Genesis account of how the world came to be, and my big concern is that when you make that the fingerprint of God, as it were, then when the big bang is discarded, what does that do to Christianity? [See also What are some of the problems with the big bang theory?]

    Genesis teaches that the earth was created first and then the sun, moon and the stars were created three days later. Is there any observation in your field of astronomy which would disprove this, or make it difficult to believe?

    No. Most astronomers as well as geologists argue that the universe is aged 20 billion years, and the earth ‘scarcely’ 4.5 billion years old. All that’s really built upon a lot of indirect evidence and arguments—evidence that could very easily be interpreted other ways, and there are some other astronomical suggestions that the solar system and the earth and the rest of the universe are not really that old at all.

    Can you give us some of these?

    First, comets disintegrate too rapidly to have been in their present orbits for all those billions of years. So evolutionists theorise about a shell of comets, an ‘Oort cloud’ too far out to see, to act as a way to ‘restock’ the inner solar system with comets every so often.

    However, there’s no scientific reason to believe that there really is an Oort cloud. The so-called Kuiper belt, closer in, has been put forward as a theoretical source of shorter period comets. However, even if there are comets in this region, it doesn’t solve the problem for the evolutionists, because the Oort cloud would still be needed to resupply the Kuiper belt after a while. [For more information, see Dr Faulkner’s detailed technical article Comets and the age of the solar system.]

    Then there is the moon—due to tidal friction, this is slowly spiraling away from the earth, which is slowing down its rotation. If you calculate back a billion and a half years ago, the moon would have been in direct contact with the earth. So that is a very strong indicator that the moon can’t be even a third as old as the claimed 4.5 billion years, and it is probably vastly less than that. [See The Moon: the light that rules the night.]

    Also, theory suggests we should find plenty of, say, million-year-old supernova remnants, but we don’t find any—though there are many that are thousands of years old. And that is a very startling result if you really believe in a universe that’s millions of years old [see Exploding stars point to a young universe, Creation 19(3):46–48, June–August 1997 and Q&A: ‘Young’ age of the earth & universe.]

    How old do you think the universe is?

    Probably six to eight thousand years.

    Have you ever doubted what the Bible teaches about recent six-day creation?

    Not seriously. I may have gone through a brief period when I was in high school or so, due to encountering people who were into theistic evolution, but then I got a copy of one of Henry Morris’s early books. Then I learned more and more about other scientists who believed in a recent creation.

    Why is it important to believe in this?

    Well, we have a very clear indication from Scripture that the creation really took place in six ordinary days [see How long were the days mentioned in the biblical creation account?]. And if you think it didn’t, then you are going to have to ask the question, ‘How do you know that it didn’t happen that way?’ Good biblical exegesis will simply not allow for a much greater length of time [see How long were the days of Genesis 1?]. And once you decide you are going to let ‘science’ dictate how you are going to interpret Scripture then there is no end to it. I recently read about former U.S. president Jimmy Carter, quoted as saying that he believes in the Virgin Birth but he doesn’t believe that the world was created in six days. I think if asked why not, he would say, well, because of overwhelming scientific evidence. And I think I would reply to that, the overwhelming scientific evidence is that a virgin birth is not possible. So be consistent on this point; one’s a miracle, so is the other. If you don’t believe in recent six day creation then it opens the door to serious doubts about the Virgin Birth, about the Resurrection; those would also be scientific ‘impossibles’.

    What about the argument that the universe must be old, because light would take millions of years to get here from distant stars?

    That has long been the biggest challenge for creationists. There have been several suggested answers—one from Australia around 13 years ago was [Barry] Setterfield’s possible drop in the speed of light. When I first encountered that I thought it was a pretty good idea, but there are a lot of consequences of that and I don’t any more think it is the answer. Perhaps the most common idea is that God created the light in transit. I have a real problem with that one. For example, when a distant supernova explodes, there is all sorts of detailed information in the light—the speed of expansion, what isotopes are involved, even sometimes a reflected light echo from nearby gas. Yet if the light was created ‘on its way’, all this is phony information—nothing like it ever occurred. This reminds me of a fellow named Gosse who was saying over 100 years ago that God created fossils inside the earth ready-made. I think this ‘light created on its way’ idea is a first cousin of Gosse’s notion.

    So what idea do you like?

    I got really excited with the cosmology which Russ Humphreys presented three years ago in Pittsburgh. It’s the first serious attempt that young-world creationists have offered as an alternative for first of all the universe itself—cosmology—and second a very detailed explanation for the distant starlight issue.1 I think that’s very impressive, and even if it turns out that Russell’s not right he’s certainly leading the way in that kind of work.

    What about stars claimed to be forming today?

    Stars supposedly condensed out of vast clouds of gas, and it has long been recognised that the clouds don’t spontaneously collapse and form stars, they need to be pushed somehow to be started. There have been a number of suggestions to get the process started, and almost all of them require having stars to start with. This is the old chicken and egg problem; it can’t account for the origin of stars in the first place. [See also Stars could not have come from the big bang.]

    Stars are not very complex, and so-called ‘stellar evolution’ (though I don’t necessarily accept all of it) is a different critter from biological evolution. So I don’t have a problem with the idea that a cloud of gas, created initially by God in a special unstable condition, or compressed by a shock wave from a nearby exploding star, might collapse under its own gravity and start to heat up to form a new star. [See also Are stars forming today?. There is also the problem of getting rid of excess angular momentum so that the nascent star doesn’t spin itself apart, and this problem is still unsolved as of the February 1997 issue of Astrophysical Journal—see What Slows The Spin Of Young, Rapidly Rotating Stars?. The conservation of angular momentum is a problem for the evolutionary origin of the solar system—see a brief explanation.]

    The Psalmist writes that the heavens declare the glory of God. What do you see as the best evidence for that?

    I think the universe is a mighty beautiful place—I view God as the supreme artist. Then we see that there are a lot of incredible and unique things about the earth which make life possible. For example, as far as we know, liquid water only exists on the earth. We see water in vapour form in the atmospheres of several planets, in stars and the material between them. We’ve identified water in solid form—on Mars, on asteroids and comets, possibly even on Mercury. But the only place we know for sure2 that there is liquid water, one of the essential ingredients for life to exist, is on Earth. Even if it were proven elsewhere, liquid water would still be an amazingly rare and precious commodity that the earth has in abundance.

    References and notes
    1.See Dr Humphreys’ popular book Starlight and Time for a lay and technical explanation of this model. Return to text.
    2.Note that there is now doubt about the claim of ice in moon craters (New Scientist, 14 June 1997, p.13). Dr Faulkner said to us after the interview that the alleged evidence for subsurface liquid water on Europa, one of Jupiter’s moons, is much more speculative and indirect than most think. Return to text.

    Anthony P said “Thanks for your … website, it’s really easy to navigate and it is a massive bonus to be able to read back-issues of your magazines … without your ministry I probably wouldn’t be a Christian today. Thank you so much and keep up the good work.” So help us do just that!

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  • Former Prime Minister Owen Arthur
    Wed, November 23, 2011 – 7:13 PM
    FORMER Prime Minister Owen Arthur thinks the National Insurance Scheme (NIS) should not have to carry any major financial burden for the Four Seasons project.

    Speaking on the topic Managing Change in an era of global economic instability at a Barbados Chamber of Commerce luncheon yesterday, Arthur was of the view the project should be able to attract private investment.

    “The planning and implementation of the project should be made to proceed entirely on the merits of the supporting financial analysis and on its merits in a private investment context rather than on the basis of political calculation.

    “This especially should apply in respect of the involvement of the NIS. Above all, if a private developer cannot be encouraged to come in as a partner, the NIS should not be required to assume the kind of risks that are being touted,” he said.

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  • @ Zoe…

    After all the posting above…..why do you hate the Muslims and the Arabs so much (as you have clearly demonstrated on BU)?…aren’t they your brothers too?
    Your hypocrisy have no bounds!!

    Go ahead, I know…bilge pump, darkness, dumb dog, ignorant..blah…blah…blah….Happy Thanksgiving to you! 🙂

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  • To Miller:
    You can not have it both ways. You and others here speak to scientific assumptions; yet, when one produces these same assumptions that support the opposite view of your focus, you go off like a bull in a china shop. Chromosome 15 is scientific; it is not in the Bible. Prof Diop is not a biblical scholar; like you he similarly believes that the phenotype expression in humans are environmentally influenced. He also believes in the re-emergence of the old Egyptian forms of worship; although they have changed shape, they are still around. With chromosome 15, the Ham “story” becomes a definite possibility. In the book of Daniel chapter 2, there a long prediction that Europe would never be united again. Heard the news this morning. The Euro SHALL break up. This is a way of escape grasp it with both hands. it is like when evolutionist jump on the junk DNA syndrome then to find out that what they and scientist thought was junk was a very important part of the DNA sequence. Reason and “light” can not deliver you Miller; only the Son of God that man Jesus Christ can. If you want to feel the “power” try Jesus.

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  • millertheanunnaki

    @ lemuel | November 24, 2011 at 8:43 AM |
    “Reason and “light” can not deliver you Miller; only the Son of God that man Jesus Christ can. If you want to feel the “power” try Jesus.”

    Go tell that to the Indians and the Chinese – approx. 2.5 billion and growing! But you can start by setting up your Jesus salvation cart on Kensington New Road.

    “The Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the sun, in which they put a man called Christ in the place of the sun, and pay him the adoration originally payed to the sun.” Thomas “Tom” Paine

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  • After all the ranting…

    Zoe & Phd. aren’t really answering any questions directly & succinctly. Only Lemuel seems to do so.

    Really now, cut & paste is too lazy! As Christians, be smart and DEFEND your statements HEAD ON!

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  • THE
    TABLE OF NATIONS
    (GENEALOGY OF MANKIND)
    AND THE
    ORIGIN OF RACES
    (HISTORY OF MAN)

    The history of the races of mankind is a fascinating subject. Biologically, a race is generally thought of as a variety, or subspecies, within a given species. All the races are a part of the human race. We have made the term race to apply to skin color, but the dictionary defines race as “a class or kind of individuals with common characteristics, interests, appearances, or habits as if derived from a common ancestor.”

    Where did we come from? The answers have always been with us, as presented in the original Table of Nations. What you are about to read can best be described as an Exegesis (from the Greek exégesis, verb: exégetikos, meaning interpretation, guide, translation or critical exposition). Once you have read what is presented here, you may not view any race of people the same way again. Note that there is nothing like the Table of Nations (as presented here) in any other national tradition. Every other attempt to tell where the nations derived or where one nation derived, which comes from the time before Christ (B.C.), is hopelessly naive and filled with impossibilities and myths. There is nothing from the B.C. period that can remotely compare with this presentation as to accuracy and detail.

    The fact is, that wherever its statements can be sufficiently tested, Genesis 10 of the Bible has been found completely accurate; resulting partly from linguistic studies, partly from archaeology, and, more recently still, from the findings of physical anthropologists, who are, to this day, recovering important clues to lines of migration in ancient historic times. As implied in verse 32 of Genesis 10, this Table includes everybody; meaning that so-called fossil man, primitive peoples (ancient and modern) and modern man are all derived from Noah’s three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. In light of this, findings from anthropology, archaeology, ethnography, ethnohistory, genetics and geology, substantiate an alternate interpretation of the history of humanity. Additionally, references from historical records, ancient literature, mythology, burial customs, and other sources, all provide strong evidences.

    This may seem a gross over-simplification, and even appear to oppose well-established secular anthropological opinion; however, science has proven itself over and over to be a double-edged sword. For example, it is often found that what is obviously true, is actually false. The obvious idea that the sun moved around the earth was erroneous, but until that view was corrected, little progress was made in the science of Astronomy. On the other hand, on occasion, what is obviously false turns out to be actually true. While scientific knowledge is characterized by a progressive approach to reality, it has often proved detrimental to the progress of understanding in the things which it has denied. Such is the case here. So before you begin to judge, please continue reading.

    As stated earlier, race does not apply to skin color alone. Skin color is essentially the only biological difference in race, and science has been unable to determine what causes skin pigmentation. They have not been able to define the difference in cell pigment or structure. This superficial distinction is the basis for the division of mankind. Note:

    Modern genetics shows that when a large, freely interbreeding group is
    suddenly broken into many smaller groups which from then on breed only
    among themselves (as the Biblical description of the language dispersion at
    Babel would imply), different racial characteristics will arise very rapidly. It can
    be shown that one pair of middle-brown parents could produce all known
    shades of color, from very white to very black, in one generation. The racial
    characteristics which exist today have not evolved, and generally speaking, are
    simply different combinations of pre-existing (created) genetic (hereditary)
    information. The environment plays a secondary role in favoring certain
    combinations over others.

    The Biblical viewpoint is that there is not a black race, white race, yellow race, etc. Instead, there are three distinct families or characteristics of man that make up the oldest Table of Nations in existence, which is a completely authentic statement of how the present world population originated and spread after the flood, as recorded in Genesis 10 of the Bible (a historical document itself). Here we learn the true divisions of mankind, indicating how the present population of the world came to be.

    Genesis chapter 10 shows how the present world population was derived from Noah’s three sons: Shem, Ham and Japheth, and their wives (three family groups). Verse 32 states, “From these the nations spread out over the earth after the flood”. These “nations” are the descendants (generations, genealogies or family histories) of the sons of Noah (verse 1). Chapter 10 describes the differentiation of nations, and asserts that we were all descended from Noah. It is important to understand that people and nations are referred to in a genealogical form (common in Hebrew and other Semitic languages). We find genealogical references in Genesis 10 are firstly to persons or families (ethnological), and secondly to nations or tribes (ethnographical); thus, the chapter ends with an emphasis on nations or tribes, which helps us understand in following chapters where they settled or “spread out over the earth” (geographical).

    The majority of scholars and Bible historians agree that most of the descendants of Shem, Noah’s oldest son, stayed in the Middle East. These include the Hebrews, Persians and Assyrians. The descendants of Ham, Noah’s middle son, include the Egyptians, Ethiopians, Canaanites, Phoenicians and Hittites. His descendants appear to be the first to fill the earth, as they were the early settlers of Africa, Asia, Australia, the South Pacific, and the Americas. The descendants of Japheth, Noah’s youngest son, migrated into Europe and parts of Central Asia. The Greeks, Romans, Spanish, Celts, Scythians, and Medes were Japheth’s descendants. Some people groups merged to form one nation, as did the Persians (Shem) and the Medes (Japheth), which later became the Medo-Persian empire.

    Note that the many names of family groups and nations listed here naturally follow well-established rules in the development of language, and the transfer of words between languages of a different family or nation. For example, the ancient city of Unuk (in the Bible is the first city ever built, equated with Enoch), later appears as Uruk and Erech, then as Wark or Warka by the Sumerians, and finally appears in Greek as Purgos or Pergos. The conversion of “wark” into “purg-” shows the transfer of words between languages of a different family.

    Interestingly enough, purgos becomes burgh in modern Indo-European languages, which is the root of the English word, borough. Several examples of this are below, specifically in the lines of Japheth. Here we have the beginnings of all people groups through Shem, Ham and Japheth:

    Shem. Also Sem. Literal meanings are named or renown (father of the Semitic races – Shemites). The sons of Shem were:

    (1) Elam “eternity” (sons were Shushan, Machul and Harmon) – (Elamites, Persians);

    (2) Asshur “a step” or “strong” (sons were Mirus and Mokil) – (Assyrians/Northern Iraqis);

    (3) Arphaxad “I shall fail” (sons were Shelach, Anar and Ashcol) – (Chaldeans/Southern Iraqis, Hebrews/Israelis/Jews, Arabians/Bedouins, Moabites/Jordanians/Palestinians, and related groups);

    (4) Lud “strife” (sons were Pethor and Bizayon) – (Ludim, Lubim, Ludians, Ludu, Lydians, Chubs, other related groups in Asia Minor and North Africa);

    (5) Aram “exalted” (sons were Uz, Chul, Gather and Mash) – (Aramaeans/Syrians, Lebanese, other related groups), and remnant groups throughout Asia, the Middle East, and North Africa.

    Evidence shows that Noah’s sons kept together at first, then broke up into small groups and eventually arrived from the east in the southern Mesopotamian Plain (Gen. 11:2). The descendants of Elam, the first born son of Shem, Noah’s first born, were the first people to enter Mesopotamia. Susa, the capital city of the Elamites (Shemitic Elamites), gave rise to other early cities, such as Al-Ubaid (which later gave rise to Hamitic settlements—including the Sumerian civilization) and Jemdet Nasr. Recent excavations have provided very strong evidence of direct cultural links between some of the earliest cities in Babylonia and the lowest layers uncovered at Susa. These people established themselves first in the south and gradually spread toward the north, but without losing the cultural links. There are no known modern descendants of the Elamites. Other excavations have shown that one of the first Hamitic groups, the Sumerians, gave rise to considerable cultural advance and power in that region. Other people groups known very early included the Japhethites, noted especially for their fairness of skin, in the hill country east of the Tigris. Soon the great Babylonian empire came to be.

    Further evidence shows that the rulers of Babylon attempted to avert dispersal of the people by proposing the building of a monument as a visible rallying point on the flat plain of Mesopotamia. Scripture and historical texts note that the tower of Babel, the building of which Nimrod (a Sumerian) supervised, was to have two great significances. The city of Babel would become the metropolis of the world and unite its inhabitants under the dictatorial rule of Nimrod. The tower was to be a monument to man to stand as a symbol of Babel. Given the present knowledge of Babylonian history, Genesis 11 has a solid historical foundation in early Mesopotamia. Nimrod hoped to prevent the people from scattering abroad into colonies as God intended, thus bringing upon themselves a judgment which led to confusion of the languages and rapid scattering throughout the earth. Babel means confusion. Urbanization, as attested by archaeological records, did not occur until after the dispersal of languages. The history of linguistic development and settlement patterns in Mesopotamia support this.

    From here the three families of man populate the earth, and Shem’s descendants are well documented. Modern day Arabs and Jews trace their lineage to Shem. Many Arabic nomad tribes still claim they descended from Shem. The descendants of Shem are often called Semites, a term first used in the late 18th century for peoples listed in the Bible as descended from Shem. Today the term Semite refers to peoples who speak any of the Semitic languages, including the ancient peoples who inhabited Babylonia. Modern peoples speaking Semitic languages include the Arabs and Jews. Today, the Semitic-speaking peoples are concentrated in the Middle East and northern Africa.

    Ham. Also Kham. Literal meanings are hot, burnt or dark (father of the Mongoloid and Negroid races – Hamites). He was the progenitor of:

    (1) Canaan “down low” (sons were Zidon1, Heth, Amori, Gergashi, Hivi, Arkee, Seni, Arodi, Zimodi and Chamothi) – also Canaanites, Cana, Chna, Chanani, Chanana, Canaana, Kana, Kenaanah, Kena’ani, Kena’an, Kn’nw, Kyn’nw, Kinnahu, Kinahhi, Kinahni, Kinahna, Kinahne (Mongols, Chinese, Japanese, Asians, Malayasians, AmerIndians2, Eskimos, Polynesians, Pacific Islanders, related groups3);

    (2) Cush “black” (sons were Seba, Havilah, Sabta, Raama and Satecha) – also Chus, Kush, Kosh (Nubians, Ethiopians, Sudanese, Ghanaians, Africans4, Bushmen, Pygmies, Australian Aborignies, New Guineans, other related groups);

    (3) Mizraim “double straits” (sons were Lud, Anom, Pathros, Chasloth and Chaphtor) – also Misraim, Mitzraim, Mizraite, Mitsrayim (Egyptians, Copts);

    (4) Phut “a bow” (sons were Gebul, Hadan, Benah and Adan) – also Putaya, Putiya, Punt, Puta, Put, Libia, Libya (Libyans, Cyrenacians, Tunisians, Berbers, Somalians, North Africans, other related groups).

    Tribes in other parts of Africa, Arabia and Asia, aboriginal groups in Australia, native Pacific Islanders, American Indians and Eskimos were birthed from descendants of Canaan, Cush, Mizraim, and Phut.

    Looking at history, whichever region is considered, Africa, Europe, Australia, or America, the major migrations have always been from Asia. In every area of the world where Japhethites have subsequently settled, they have always been preceded by Hamites. This pattern applies in every continent. In early historic times the circumstance seems always to be true, the earliest fossil remains of man being Mongoloid or Negroid in character and in head shape, whereas those that came last belong to the family of Japheth (Caucasoid). If you study ancient history and technological achievements, which were in many ways the equal of, or superior of, much that we have today, were founded and carried to a high technological proficiency by Hamitic people, showing an amazing adaptability to the world in which they live. Their achievements were exploited by the Japhetic people, who became great scientific discoverers. The Hamitic migrations indicate they sought a way of life, not an understanding or a control of nature beyond what was immediately useful.

    1. Zidon (or Sidon) and his descendants settled on the Mediterranean coast of present-day Lebanon, then known as the land of Canaan. The Sidonians called themselves Kena’ani, or Canaanites. Interestingly, the Canaanites spoke a Semitic language, probably adopted from a large migration of Semites who came from land and sea, and introduced their language and a sophisticated maritime technology about 1800 B.C. Historians suggest the first Cannaanites succumbed to racial and linguistic intermixture with the invading Semites, which led to the loss of their own ethnic predominance, as evidenced by modern excavations. They eventually moved westward and occupied a very narrow coastal strip of the east Mediterranean, building new cities, and establishing significant trade with neighboring nations. In fact, the Israelite name for “Canaan” came to mean “traders”, though some suggest the name Canaan is from the Hebrew name Hurrian, meaning “belonging to the land of red purple.”

    The Canaanites were known for their red and purple cloth (a purple dye was extracted from murex snails found near the shores of Palestine, a method now lost). The Greeks called the land of Canaan “Phoenicia”, which meant “purple”. The Phoenicians became a nation of great trade, language, and culture. Phoenician, Hebrew, and Moabite were a group of west Semitic languages, all dialects from Canaan, as referred to in Isaiah 19:18. The writing system of the Phoenicians is the source of the writing systems of nearly all of Europe, including Greek, Russian, Hebrew, Arabic, and the Roman alphabet. The Phoenician empire fell under Hellenistic rule after being conquered by Alexander the Great about 332 B.C. In 64 B.C. the name of Phoenicia disappeared entirely, becoming a part of the Roman providence of Syria. At the beginning of the Christian era, remaining Phoenicians were the first to accept the Christian faith after the Jews. Zidon’s name is still perpetuated in the modern-day city of Sidon (Saidoon is the Phoenician name, Saida in Arabic) in southern Lebanon.

    2. Evidence for diverse migrations into the Americas comes from research on living American Indian populations, which includes data from Mitochondrial DNA. These studies have consistently shown similarities between American Indians and recent populations in Asia, Siberia and northern Scandinavia. These groups include the Lapps in northern Europe/Scandinavia, the Yukaghir in Siberia, plus Indians and Eskimos/Aleuts throughout Canada and America. Ancient skeletal remains show a range of physical attributes (round-headed) suggesting separate migrations of different populations from Asia and the South Pacific, representing 95 percent of all modern American Indian populations. One unique exception are the Sioux Indians, the popular red-skinned tribe having a long-head shape similar to that of early Italic peoples in Europe. They are thought to be descendants of Canaanites who intermarried with Indo-Europeans while migrating across Europe, and subsequently sailing to America. Studies of the native languages of the Americas have shown them to be extremely diverse, representing nearly two hundred distinct families, some consisting of a single isolated language.

    3. The vast aggregate of peoples who are generally classified as Mongoloid, who settled the Far East, have been a question as to where they fall into the Table of Nations. The evidence shows they are Hamitic, even though some have incorrectly reasoned that the Chinese were of Japhetic stock, and the Japanese were either Japhetic or Semitic. There are two names which provide clues. Two of Canaan’s sons, Heth (Hittites) and Sin (Sinites), are presumed to be the progenitors of Chinese and Mongoloid stock. The Hittites were known as the Hatti or Chatti. In Egyptian monuments the Hittite peoples were depicted with prominent noses, full lips, high check-bones, hairless faces, varying skin color from brown to yellowish and reddish, straight black hair and dark brown eyes.

    The term Hittite in Cuneiform (the earliest form of writing invented by the Sumerians) appears as Khittae* representing a once powerful nation from the Far East known as the Khitai, and has been preserved through the centuries in the more familiar term, Cathay. The Cathay were Mongoloids, considered a part of early Chinese stock. There are links between the known Hittites and Cathay, for example, their modes of dress, their shoes with turned-up toes, their manner of doing their hair in a pigtail, and so forth. Representations show them to have possessed high cheekbones, and craniologists have observed that they had common characteristics of Mongoloids.

    *Khittae has, at times, been incorrectly associated with Kittim or Chittim (Greek Kition, Roman Citium, Jewish Cethimus), son of Javan, son of Japheth. Interestingly enough, Javan has been incorrectly interpreted to mean Japan. History distinctly shows Javan to be the ancestor of the Greeks and other related Mediterranean people groups.

    Sin (or Seni), a brother of Heth, has many occurrences in variant forms in the Far East. There is one significant feature concerning the likely mode of origin of Chinese civilization. The place most closely associated by the Chinese themselves with the origin of their civilization is the capital of Shensi, namely, Siang-fu (Father Sin). Siang-fu appears in Assyrian records as Sianu. Today, Siang-fu can be loosely translated, “Peace to the Western Capital of China”. The Chinese have a tradition that their first king, Fu-hi or Fohi (Chinese Noah), made his appearance on the Mountains of Chin, was surrounded by a rainbow after the world had been covered with water, and sacraficed animals to God (corresponding to the Genesis record). Sin himself was the third generation from Noah, a circumstance which would provide the right time interval for the formation of early Chinese culture.

    Furthermore, those who came from the Far East to trade were called Sinæ (Sin) by the Scythians. Ptolemy, a Greek astronomer, referred to China as the land of Sinim or Sinæ. Reference to the Sinim in Isaiah 49:12 notes they came “from afar,” specifically not from the north and not from the west. Arabs called China Sin, Chin, Mahachin, Machin. The Sinæ were spoken of as a people in the remotest parts of Asia. For the Sinæ, the most important town was Thinæ, a great trading emporium in western China. The city Thinæ is now known as Thsin or simply Tin, and it lies in the province of Shensi. Much of China was ruled by the Sino-Khitan Empire (960-1126 A.D.), which Beijing became the southern capital. The Sinæ became independent in western China, their princes reigning there for some 650 years before they finally gained dominion over the whole land.

    In the third century B.C., the dynasty of Tsin became supreme. The word Tsin itself came to have the meaning of purebred. This word was assumed as a title by the Manchu Emperors and is believed to have been changed into the form Tchina. From there the term was brought into Europe as China, probably from the Ch’in or Qin dynasty (255-206 B.C.). The Greek word for China is Kina (Latin is Sina). As well, Chinese and surrouding languages are part of the Sino-Tibetan language family. Years ago, American newspapers regularly carried headlines with reference to the conflict between the Chinese and Japanese in which the ancient name reappeared in its original form, the Sino-Japanese war. Sinology refers to the study of Chinese history.

    With respect to the Cathay people of historical reference, it would make sense to suppose that the remnants of the Hittites, after the destruction of their empire, travelled towards the east and settled among the Sinites who were relatives, contributing to their civilization, and thus becoming the ancestors of the Asian people groups. Still others migrated throughout the region and beyond, making up present-day Mongoloid races in Asia and the Americas. The evidence strongly suggests that Ham’s grandsons, Heth (Hittites/Cathay) and Sin (Sinites/China), are the ancestors of the Mongoloid peoples.

    4. There are many native African tribes which trace themselves back traditionally to Ham. The Yoruba, who are black skinned, for example, claim to be descendants of Nimrod, son of Cush, whereas the Libyans, who are much lighter skinned, are traced back to Phut. The Egyptians were direct descendants of Mizraim. Ancient Egyptians have been considered the greatest technicians in all human history. Other African groups trace their roots back to Ham or one of his descendants. It is therefore suggested that all of Africa, despite the different shades of color of its native populations, was initially settled by various members of this one Hamitic family.

    The evidence appears to point consistently in the same direction, supporting that not only Africa with its black races, but the Far East, the Americas, and other Island nations with their colored races were all descendants of Ham. The Hamitic people were the first to reach the far and distant lands of the world, preparing the way for the future. Their inventions and discoveries made a significant impact on the world, and provided inspiration for the Japhethites.

    Japheth. Also Diphath. Literal meanings are opened, enlarged, fair or light (father of the Caucasoid/Indo-Europoid, Indo-European, Indo-Germanic, or Indo-Aryan races – Japhethites). Japheth is the progenitor of seven sons:

    (1) Gomer “complete” (sons were Ashkenaz, Riphath and Togarmah) – also Gamir, Gommer, Gomeri, Gomeria, Gomery, Goth, Guth, Gutar, Götar, Gadelas, Galic, Gallic, Galicia, Galica, Galatia, Gael, Getae, Galatae, Galatoi, Gaul, Galls, Goar, Celt, Celtae, Celticae, Kelt, Keltoi, Gimmer, Gimmerai, Gimirra, Gimirrai, Gimirraya, Kimmer, Kimmeroi, Kimirraa, Kumri, Umbri, Cimmer, Cimmeria, Cimbri, Cimbris, Crimea, Chomari, Cymric, Cymry, Cymru, Cymbry, Cumber (Caledonians, Picts, Milesians, Umbrians, Helvetians, Celts1, Galatians, Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Goths, Vandals, Scandinavians, Jutes, Teutons, Franks, Burgundians, Alemanni, Armenians, Germans2, Belgians, Dutch, Luxembourgers, Liechensteiners, Austrians, Swiss, Angles, Saxons, Britons, English, Cornish, Irish, Welsh, French, and other related groups);

    (2) Magog “land of God” (sons were Elichanaf, Lubal, Baath, Jobhath and Fathochta) – also Gog, Gogh, Magug, Magogae, Mugogh, Mat Gugi, Gugu, Gyges, Bedwig, Moghef, Magogian, Massagetae, Dacae, Sacae, Scyth, Scythi, Scythia, Scythae, Sythia, Scythes, Skuthai, Skythai, Scythia, Scynthia, Scynthius, Sclaveni, Samartian, Scoloti, Skodiai, Scotti, Skoloti, Skoth-ai, Skoth, Skuthes, Skuth-a, Askuza, Askuasa, Alani, Alans, Alanic, Ulan, Uhlan (Scythians, Scots, Irish); also Rasapu, Rashu, Rukhs, Rukhs-As, Rhos, Ros, Rosh, Rox, Roxolani, Rhoxolani, Ruskolan, Rosichi, Rhossi, Rusichi, Rus, Ruska, Rossiya, Rusian (Russians3, Belarusians, Ukrainians); also Mas-ar, Mas-gar, Masgar, Mazar, Madj, Madjar, Makr-on, Makar, Makaroi, Merkar, Magor, Magar, Magyar (Hungarians – also Hungar, Hunugur, Hurri, Gurri, Onogur, Ugor, Ungar, Uhor, Venger); Finns, Lapps, Estonians, Siberians, Yugoslavians, Croatians, Bosnians, Montenegrins, Serbians, Slovenians, Slovakians, Bulgarians, Poles, Czechs, and other related groups);

    (3) Madai “middle land” (sons were Achon, Zeelo, Chazoni and Lotalso) – also Mada, Amada, Madae, Madea, Manda, Maday, Media, Madaean, Mata, Matiene, Mitani, Mitanni, Megala (Medes4, Aryans, Persians, Parsa, Parsees, Achaemenians, Manneans, Caspians, Kassites, Iranians, Kurds, Turks, East Indians, Pathans, Hazaras), including the peoples of Afghanistan, Pakistan, Azerbaijan, Khazachstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikstan and Kyrgyzstan, and other related groups;

    (4) Javan “miry” (sons were Elisha, Tarshish, Kittim and Dodanim) – also Jevanim, Iewanim, Iawan, Iawon, Iamanu, Iones, Ionians, Ellas, Ellines, El-li-ness, Hellas, Hellenes, Yavan, Yavanas, Yawan, Yuban, Yauna, Uinivu, Xuthus (Grecians, Greeks, Elysians, Spartans, Dorians, Britons5, Aeolians, Achaeans, Myceneans, Macedonians, Carthaginians, Cyprians, Cretans, Basques, Latins, Venetians, Sicanians, Italics, Romans6, Valentians, Sicilians, Italians, Spaniards, Portugese, other related groups);

    (5) Tubal “brought” (sons were Ariphi, Kesed and Taari) – also Tabal, Tabali, Tubalu, Tbilisi, Tibarenoi, Tibareni, Tibar, Tibor, Sabir, Sapir, Sabarda, Subar, Subartu, Thobal, Thobel, Tobol, Tobolsk (Georgians, Albanians, other related groups);

    (6) Meshech “drawing out” (sons were Dedon, Zaron and Shebashnialso) – Me’shech, Mes’ek, Meshekh, Meskhi, Mushch, Muschki, Mushki, Mishi, Muski, Mushku, Musku, Muskeva, Muska, Muskaa, Muskai, Maskali, Machar, Maskouci, Mazakha, Mazaca, Massagatae, Mtskhetos, Modar-es, Moskhi, Moshkhi, Mosher, Moshch, Moschis, Mosoch, Moschi, Moschian, Mo’skhoi, Moschoi, Mosochenu, Mosochean, Mossynes, Mosynoeci, Moskva, Moscovy, Moscow (Muscovites, Latvians, Lithuanians, Romanians, other related groups);

    (7) Tiras “desire” (sons were Benib, Gera, Lupirion and Gilak) – also Tiracian, Thracian, Thirasian, Thuras, Troas, Tros, Troia, Troi, Troy, Trajan, Trojan, Taunrus, Tyrsen, Tyrrhena, Rasenna, Tursha, Tusci, Tuscany, Etruscan, Eturscan, Erul, Herul, Heruli, Erilar, Vanir, Danir, Daner, Aesar, Aesir, Asir, Svear, Svea, Svie, Svioner, Svenonian, Urmane, Norge (Pelasgians, Scandinavians7, Varangians, Vikings, Swedes, Norwegians, Danes, Icelandics, other related groups).

    The Japhetic people are, in general, the peoples of India and Europe (Indo-European stock), with which any demographer is familiar8.

    1. The whole Celtic race has been regarded as descended from Gomer, though history suggests modern Celts are descended from both Gomer and Magog. Archaeologists and ethnologists agree that the first Indo-European group to spread across Europe were Celts. The Irish Celts claim to be to the descendants of Magog, while the Welsh Celts claim to be to the descendants of Gomer. Irish chronicles, genealogies, plus an extensive number of manuscripts which have survived from ancient times, reveal their roots. The Irish were descendants of Scythians, also known as Magogians, which is strongly supported by etymological evidence. Archaeological evidence shows that both the Celts (from Gomer) and Scythians (from Magog) freely shared and mingled cultures at their earliest stages. Russian and eastern European excavations plainly reveal the blending of these two groups. Their geographical locations (what is now eastern Europe, southern Russia and Asia Minor) were referred to by the Greeks under the name of Celto-Scythae, which was populated by the Celts to the south and west, and the Scythians to the north. The ancient Greeks first called the northern peoples by the general name of Scythae; but when they became acquainted with the nations in the west, they began to call them by the different names of Celts, including the Celto-Scythae. Celts and Scythians were considered essentially the same peoples, based on geography, though many independent tribes of Celts and Scythians existed. The Latins called them the Galli, and the Romans referred to them as the Gauls. Later names used by Greeks were the Galatai or Galatae, Getae, Celtae, and Keltoi. In the third century before Christ (about 280 B.C.), the Gauls invaded Rome and were ultimately repelled in Greece, where they migrated into the north-central part of Asia Minor (Anatolia). Known as fiercely independent peoples, they conquered the indigenous peoples of that region and established their own independent kingdom. The land became known as Galatia. The Apostle Paul wrote his famous epistle to their descendants, the Galatians.

    Early Celtic tribes (from Gomer) settled much of the European theater, including present-day Spain, France, England and Germany, prior to contact with Scythians. For many centuries France was called Gaul, after the Celtic descendants of Gomer, whom ceded the territory to Romans and Germanic/Teutonic Franks (whence France) in the 4th century A.D. Northwest Spain is called Galicia to this day. Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales. The Welsh claim their ancestors “first landed on the Isle of Britain from France, about three hundred years after the flood.” The Celtic language survives intact today mainly in the two variants of Welsh and Irish/Scottish Gaelic. The Welsh call their language Gomeraeg (after Gomer). The Celts of today are descendants of Gomer, and of the blended tribes of Magog and Gomer.

    2. Present-day Germanic people groups are descendants of both Japheth and Shem, and there are several references from recent and ancient history. Recent history records the descendants of Gomer migrated and settled in the region that is now northern Europe (Germany and Scandinavia). These tribes became the Goths, Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Teutons and Burgundians, descendants of some of the first peoples to migrate to northern Europe from ancient times—the Askaeni. The Askaeni were descendants of Ashkenaz, son of Gomer, son of Japheth. When the Askaeni arrived in northern Europe, they named the land Ascania after themselves, which later translated Scandia, then Scandinavia. Later in history, we find the Askaeni being referred to as Sakasenoi, which became Sachsen, and finally Saxon. The Saxons played an big part in European and English history. Ashkenaz has been one of the most well preserved names throughout European history.

    Semitic peoples also migrated to central Europe (southern Germany, Austria and Switzerland). These people were the descendants of Asshur, son of Shem, and is where the name “German” originates. Asshur is well known in history as the father of the Assyrians. The Assyrians occupied a Mesopotamian city on the lower Tigris River called “Kir” and placed captive slaves there (also referenced in 2 Kings 16:9). The city was populated by the Assyrians for many years, and the inhabitants became known as “Kir-men”. The Assyrian “Kerman” were driven from their land shortly after their fall about 610 B.C. They migrated into central Europe where they were called “German” or “Germanni”, a general name used by the Romans to represent all Assyrian tribes. The known Assyrian tribes were the Khatti (also Hatti, Hessians)—Chatti is still the Hebrew term for German, and Khatti was often used by the Romans to represent Germanic tribes; the Akkadians (Latins called them Quadians); the Kassites (or Cossaei); and the Almani (or Halmani, Allemani was the Latin name). Today, Germans refer to themselves as the “Deutschen”, which is derived from the Saxon word for an “Assyrian”. Their country name is Deutschland. The Romans referred to the Deutschen as Teutons. Ancient Hindu literature uses both the word “Asgras” and “Daityas” to refer to the Assyrians. “Daityas” is a Sanskrit word for “Deutsch”—a name applied to the Assyrians over 1500 years before the birth of Christ.

    3. Ancient peoples known as the Sarmatians (not to be confused with the Samaritans) and Alans lived in the area around the Caspian Sea from about 900 B.C. Sarmatian and Alani tribes were later called Scythians (Slavs of today), who were also known as the Rukhs-As, Rashu, Rasapu, Rosh, Ros, and Rus. There is no debate that they were the inhabitants of southern Russia, and the existence of the names of rivers, such as the “Ros”, refer to Rus populations. Much later, about 739 A.D., the word Rus appears again in eastern Europe, interestingly, from a different source. Finnish peoples referred to Swedes as “Ruotsi”, “Rotsi” or “Rus” in contrast with Slavic peoples, which was derived from the name of the Swedish maritime district in Uppland, “Roslagen”, and its inhabitants, called “Rodskarlar”. Rodskarlar or Rothskarlar meant “rowers” or “seamen”. Those Swedish conquerers (called Varangians [Vikings] by the Slavs), settled in eastern Europe, adopted the names of local tribes, integrated with the Slavs, and eventually the word “Rusi”, “Rhos” or “Rus” came to refer to the inhabitants. Russia means “land of the Rus.” Scholars continue to debate the origin of the word Rus, which has derived from two sources: the Ruotsi or Rhos, the Finnish names for the Swedes, and earlier from the Scythians called the Rashu or Rosh in southern Russia.

    4. The Aryans first come into historical view about a thousand years before Christ, invading India and threatening Babylonia. Historians of old reference an Aryan chief called Cyaxeres, king of the Medes and Persians. The Medes and Persians seem to have been tribes of one nation, more or less united under the rule of Cyaxeres. Elam (son of Shem) is the ancient name for Persia. Elamites are synonymous with Persians. The Persians are thus descended from both Elam, the son of Shem, and from Madai, the son of Japheth. The Medes and Persians had settled in what is now modern Persia, the Medes in the north, the Persians in the south. The most notable Persians of today are the Iranians. Interestingly, the word Iran is a derivative of Aryan. The Medo-Persian people groups are divided into hundreds of clans, some sedentary and others nomadic. All speak Indo-European languages, and some groups have pronounced Mongoloid physical characteristics and cultural traits, derived from Mongolian invasions and subsequent cultural integration. An example today would be the Uzbeks of Uzbekistan, and remnant groups living in Afghanistan and parts of Central Asia.

    5. The history of Britain can be traced back to the sons of Japheth. Historical evidence strongly suggests the first inhabitants of the British isles were the descendants of Javan (from his sons Elisha and Tarshish), and of Gomer and Magog. Gomerites are today’s modern Welsh. Traditional Welsh belief is that the descendants of Gomer arrived about three hundred years after the flood, and the Welsh language was once called Gomeraeg. The Welsh (Celts) are thought to have created Stonehenge. Additionally, the descendants of Tarshish (Elisha’s brother) apprear to have settled on the British Isles in various migrations about the same time. Genesis 10:4 refers to Tarshish as those of “the isles of the Gentiles”. The Phoenicians traded silver, iron, tin and lead with them (Ezekiel 27:12), and even mention the incredible stone monuments at Stonehenge. Around 450 B.C., ancient historian Herodotus wrote about shipments of tin coming from the “Tin Isles” far to the north and west. There is no question that the British isles, including the northern coast of Spain, were the seat of the tin trade. King Solomon acquired precious metals from Tarshish (1 Kings 10:22). English historians assert that British mines mainly supplied the glorious adornment of Solomon’s Temple, and in those days the mines of southwestern Britain were the source of the world’s supply of tin.

    The name Briton originated from Brutus (a descendant of Elisha), the first king on Britain’s mainland, arriving about 1100 B.C. Two sons of Brutus, Kamber and Albanactus, are referenced in English pre-history. From Kamber came Cambaria and the Cambrians (who integrated with the Gomerites [mostly Celts] and became the present-day Welsh). The descendants of Albanactus were known as the Albans (or the Albanach whom the Irish commonly called them). Geographers would later call the land Albion. The Britons, Cambrians and Albans populated the British Isles, which later endured multiple invasions, beginning with successive waves of Celts about 700 B.C. The Celts (or Gaels) called the land Prydain, their name for Briton. Those Celts (descendants of Gomer) integrated with the descendants of Elisha and Tarshish (sons of Javan), creating what some scholars called “a Celticized aboriginal population” in the British Isles. Some of the invading people groups were Scythians, descended from Magog, who became known as the Skoths or Scots. The name for the Celts or Cymru was “Weahlas”, from Anglo-Saxon origins, meaning “land of foreigners”—Wales. The Welsh still call themselves Cymru, pronounced “Coomry”. Later the Romans referred to the land as Britannia, invading there about 50 years before the birth of Christ. By the third century A.D., Jutes, Franks, Picts, Moors, Angles, Saxons and other groups were invading from surrounding Europe. In the sixth century A.D., Saxons called the land Kemr (Cymru), and the language Brithenig (Breton). The Angles eventually conquered Britannia, renaming the territory Angleland, which became England. Vikings invaded in the 9th century, and the Normans (or Northmen—former Danish Vikings) conquered England in 1066. Today, the British isles are settled by the ancestors of those people groups, which included Gomer and Javan (first inhabitants), plus Magog (later invasions by various people groups).

    6. What of Romans and pre-Roman peoples? Migrating nomadic peoples came from across the Alps and across the Adriatic Sea to the east of the Italian peninsula. They were primarily herdsmen, and were technologically advanced. They worked bronze, used horses, and had wheeled carts. They were a war-like people and began to settle the mountainous areas of the Italian peninsula. Historians called these people Italic, and they include several ethnic groups: the Sabines, the Umbrians and the Latins, amongst others. Rome was, in part, founded by these agrarian Italic peoples living south of the Tiber river. They were a tribal people and the social logic of tribal organization dominated Roman society in both its early and late histories.

    The date of the founding of Rome is uncertain, but archaeologists estimate its founding to around 753 B.C., although it existed as a village or group of villages long before then. As the Romans steadily developed their city, government and culture, they imitated the neighboring civilization to the north, the Etruscans (former Trojans). Romans are sometimes referred to as “Etruscanized Latins”. Roman legend states that Aeneas, the founder of the Roman race, was a prince of Troy who was forced to flee that city at the close of the Trojan war against Greece. Rome’s founder, Romulus, had a latinized Etruscan name. The Etruscans dominated central Italy, and had already founded many cities, having arrived some 500 years earlier after leaving the city of Troy around 1260 B.C. The Etruscans were greatly influenced by the Greeks, and the Etruscans brought that influence to the city of Rome. The Romans called Etruscans the Tusci, and Tuscany still bears the name. The first two centuries of Rome’s growth was dominated by the Etruscans. After many battles with the Etruscans, the city of Rome identified itself as Latin, eventually integrating the Estruscans and remaining peoples in the region. Rome became a kingdom, then an empire.

    7. Scandinavian predecessors have a unique history. Scholars agree that Scandinavians (Danes, Norwegians, Swedes) came from early Germanic people groups, including the Goths, Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Teutons and Burgundians (descendants of Gomer). Ashkenaz, son of Gomer, is ancestor of those Germanic peoples. The descendants of Ashkenaz have many historical references. Known as the Askaeni, they were some of the first peoples to migrate to northern Europe, naming the land Ascania. Latin writers and Greeks called the land Scandza or Scandia (now Scandinavia). Roman records describe a large city on the southern shore of the Caspian Sea (about 350 A.D.) where a chain of mountains begins, and runs eastward along the shore and beyond it, forming a natural boundary. Those mountains were called the Ascanimians, the region was called Sakasene (a form of Ashkenaz), and the dwellers of the city were the Saki. The Saki tribes had been migrating north to Europe for some time. The Saki called themselves the Sakasenoi, which we know as the Sachsens or Saxons. Around 280 A.D. the Romans tell of the employment of Saxons to guard the eastern British coasts against barbarians. About 565 A.D., the Saxons battled over territory in the Baltic region with another powerful people, the Svear. Historical records indicate that descendants of Tiras also settled in Scandinavia, a people called the Svear. The Svear are descendants of the first inhabitants of the ancient city of Troy, a people then known as the Tiracians (also Thracians, Trajans or Trojans). They were described as a “ruddy and blue-eyed people”. The city of Troy was destroyed around 1260 B.C. after a succession of wars with the Greeks. Thousands of Trojans resettled abroad. That included Trojan warriors who sailed across the Black Sea to the Caucasus region in southern Russia; and one of the most documented of Trojan settlements is along the mouth of the River Don on the Black Sea. The locals named those Trojan settlers the “Aes”, meaning “Iron” for their superior weaponry. Later, the inner part of the Black Sea was named after them, called the “Iron Sea” or “Sea of Aesov” in the local tongue. Today, the name continues as the “Sea of Azov”.

    The Aes or Aesir, travelled from the Caucasus region to the Baltic Sea in Scandinavia around 90 B.C., which is supported by several scholars and modern archaeological evidence. A tribe that migrated with them were the Vanir. The Aesir clans traded with local Germanic tribes, including the Gutar. Romans called the Gutar “Goths”, the Aesir “Svear”—Swedes, and the Vanir “Danir/Daner”—Danes. The Svear and Daner populations were described specifically as taller and fairer (blonde) than other people groups in the Baltic region. The Svear population flourished, and with the Goths they formed a powerful military alliance of well-known seafarers. The Romans noted that Svear people together with the Goths were, from the 3rd century A.D., ravaging the Black Sea, Asia Minor and the Mediterranean, using the same type of weapons as their Trojan ancestors. The Svear and Goths dominated the Russian waterways, and by 739 A.D. together they were called Varyagans or Varangians (from the Swedish Vaeringar), according to written records of the Slavs near the Sea of Azov. Like their ancestors, Scandinavians lived in large communities where their chieftains would send out maritime warriors to trade and plunder. Those fierce warriors were called the Vaeringar, which literally meant “men who offer their service to another master”. We later know them by their popularized name, the Vikings. Further evidence of Aesir (Asir) settlements in the Baltic region came from their Thracian language, which not only influenced, but is very close to the Baltic and Slavic (Balto-Slavic) languages of today. By the 9th century A.D., the Svear state had emerged as the major power in Scandinavia. The Svear, Daner and Goths, along with other Germanic tribes, settled in what is now present-day Sweden, Norway, Denmark and other parts of the Baltic region. They were forefathers of the Scandinavians—the descendants of both Gomer and Tiras.

    8. Early history shows the Japhethites split into two groups. One group settled in the region of present-day India and Central Asia, and the other group in the European theater. Indo-European languages originate from those people groups who migrated throughout western Eurasia (Europe, the Near East, Anatolia, and the Caucasus). Together they form what is known as the “Indo-European” family of nations. Both of these divisions trace their ancestry back to Japheth. For example, early Aryans knew him as Djapatischta (chief of the race), Greeks referred to Japheth as Iapetos or Japetos, East Indians called him Jyapeti or Pra-Japati, Romans used Ju-Pater or Jupiter, the Saxons perpetuated his name as Iafeth, subsequently transliterated as Sceaf (procounced “sheef” or “shaif” – and recorded his name in their early genealogies as the son of Noah, the forebear of their various peoples), and the variant Seskef was used by early Scandinavians. All of these peoples, we must remember, were pagans whose knowledge or even awareness of the book of Genesis had been lost, or was non-existent.

    Endnote:

    The information presented here is only an interpretation of historical research and Biblical data. Certain assumptions may not be accurate, and new discoveries can change group references. We are all directly related to either Shem and his wife, Ham and his wife, or Japheth and his wife. History has long since confirmed abundantly this distribution of mankind, exactly as the Bible describes. Every human being on earth today is your cousin, whether first, second – or thousandth!

    Nothing in the legendary or archaeological history of the ancient world denies the biblical account of the creation of the world, the entrance of sin and death, the judgment of Noah’s flood, and the rise of the peoples from his descendants after their dispersal from Babel. Furthermore, the historical dates used to determine the formation of people groups, nations, or kingdoms does not in any way conflict with the Genesis account, but are well within the approximate dates for the creation of the world and mankind about 5800 B.C., the flood of Noah about 3400 B.C., and the dispersal from Babel around 3200 B.C.

    This information is not intendend to promote or reflect a particular theology, religious sect or genealogical group. Don’t dismiss the fact that with some of the Shemites, Hamites, and Japhethites there would have been intermarriage and subsequent people groups. For example, scholars note evidence that suggests the descendants of Lud (Shemites) migrated north and intermarried with the Greeks (descendants of Japheth), and were eventually absorbed in that culture.

    The interaction of all three family contributions is the theme of history. The remarkable thing is that they all can be substantiated to a degree, often unsuspected by students of history, up to the present time. The descendants of Shem, Ham and Japheth are evidenced, not only by Biblical history, but archeological, anthropological, biological, ethnographical, ethnological, etymological, geological, and secular history. The question is not one of levels of worth but of uniqueness of contribution, and though differences exist, not any one group is superior or inferior.

    Consider the major language groups today. Essentially, there is an increasing recognition that many of the languages of the world are related and that, subsequently, many of the cultures of the ancient world are thus also related in origin. They all can be traced back, in their various linguistic groups, to a “father tongue” embracing the major language groups of today, which are:
    Indo-European (Northern India/Europe)
    Afro-Asiatic (Northern Africa/Middle East/Southwestern Asia)
    Kartvelian (Caucasus Mountains/Southern Russia)
    Uralic (Northern Europe/Central Siberia/Eurasia)
    Altaic (Eastern Europe/Central Asia)
    Dravidian (Central & Southern India)
    Sino-Tibetan (Northern & Eastern Asia)
    Malayo-Polynesian (Southeastern Asia/Pacific Islands)
    Austro-Asiatic (Eastern India/Southwestern Asia)
    Niger-Congo (Western & Central Africa)
    Nilo-Saharan (Northeastern Africa)
    Khoisan (Southern Africa)
    Eskimo-Aleut (Northeastern Siberia/Alaska/Aleutians)
    Algonkian, Athapascan, Iroquoian, & Mosan (North America)
    Uto-Aztecan, Oto-Manguean, Mayan, & Macro-Chibchan (Central America)
    Carib, Andean-Equatorial (South America)
    Torricelli, West Papuan & Sepik-Ramu (New Guinea)
    Bunaban, Ngaran & Yiwaidjan (Northern Australia)
    Pama-Nyungan (Central & Southern Australia)
    The total number of languages in the world is estimated to be around 6000. Here are the most common spoken & written languages worldwide:

    Achinese, Afrikaans, Akan, Albanian, Amharic, Arabic, Armenian, Assamese, Aymara, Azerbaijani, Balinese, Baluchi,

    Like

  • @Zoe | November 24, 2011 at 11:20 AM |
    “Furthermore, the historical dates used to determine the formation of people groups, nations, or kingdoms does not in any way conflict with the Genesis account, but are well within the approximate dates for the creation of the world and mankind about 5800 B.C., the flood of Noah about 3400 B.C., and the dispersal from Babel around 3200 B.C.”

    So what are you telling the world here? That the earth is only 7,811 year old?
    But I would provide you a hole not to further bury yourself but to use as an escape hatch to wriggle your way out!
    Let us allow for the saying that “a day is like a thousand years in the sight of your god”. Therefore we get – 7,811 X 365 X 1,000 = 2,851,015,000 years which is getting very close to reality. Mankind therefore had enough time to leave the genetic engineering factory of Eden and migrate to the far corners of the planet.

    Like

  • Wtf Zoe…..

    A link would have been nice >:O

    Like

  • .Zoe & Lemuel crushed the competition with irrefutable evidence

    Like

  • SojournerTruth | November 24, 2011 at 12:34 PM |

    .”Zoe & Lemuel crushed the competition with irrefutable evidence”

    It is amazing what people call evidence…..stories filled with supernatural beings magical happenings written over 3000 years ago with no proof.

    Like

  • Nnaki/Raelian, Man, you continue to manifest your ignorance and ineptitude, as you try DIGGING yourself out of one of those DEEP, DARK* BLACK HOLES* in outer space (LOL!) the likes of which, your eternal
    DESTINY becons YOU!

    Your FUTILITY, is so dense!

    2 Peter 3:8—‘one day is like a thousand years’

    Question: Doesn’t 2 Peter 3:8 indicate that the days of creation might not be literal, but thousands of years long?

    Answer: 2 Peter 3:8–9 reads:

    ‘But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.’
    The first thing to note that the context has nothing to do with the days of creation. Also, it is not defining a day because it doesn’t say ‘a day is a thousand years’. The correct understanding is derived from the context—the Apostle Peter’s readers should not lose heart because God seems slow at fulfilling His promises because He is patient, and also because He is not bound by time as we are.

    The text says ‘one day is like [or as] a thousand years’—the word ‘like’ (or ‘as’) shows that it is a figure of speech, called a simile, to teach that God is outside of time (because He is the Creator of time itself). In fact, the figure of speech is so effective in its intended aim precisely because the day is literal and contrasts so vividly with 1000 years—to the eternal Creator of time, a short period of time and a long period of time may as well be the same.

    The fact that the passage is actually contrasting a short and long period can be shown by the fact that Peter is quoting Psalm 90:4 (Peter’s statement ‘do not forget’ implies that his readers were expected to recall something, and this passage has this very teaching). This reads:

    ‘For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.’

    This is synonymous parallelism, where a long period of a thousand years is contrasted with two short periods: a day, and a night watch. But those who try to use this verse to teach that the days of Genesis might be 1000 years long forget the additional part in bold. For if they were consistent, they would have to say that a watch in the night here also means 1000 years. It’s difficult to imagine that a Psalmist (Psalm 63:6) is thinking on his bed for thousands of years or that his eyes stay open for thousands of years (Psalm 119:148).

    The immediate context of the Psalm is the frailty of mere mortal man in comparison to God. This verse amplifies the teaching, saying that no matter how long a time interval is from man’s time-bound perspective, it’s like a twinkling of an eye from God’s eternal perspective.

    In any case, the meaning of ‘day’ in Genesis 1 is defined by the context there—the Hebrew word for day, yôm יום , is used with the words ‘evening’ and ‘morning’, and the days are numbered (first day, second day, etc.). Whenever yôm is used in such a context, it is always an ordinary day, never a long period of time. The meaning of the days of creation as ordinary days is also affirmed by Exodus 20:8–11, where God told the Israelites to work for six days and rest on the seventh because God had made all things in six days and rested on the seventh. For more information, see other articles in Q&A: Genesis under ‘Days of Creation’.

    Professing to be wise Nnaki/Raelian, you have BECOME a fool!

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  • My esteemed colleague and former tutor, Professor Dov Templebaum, has been a pioneering economic geographer and archeologist, whose published explorations into the social anthropology of first-century Judea have been inspirational to generations of scholars. I am one of those scholars, and my admiration for him knows no bounds.

    Here, however, and sadly, I must take issue with Dov. All of the evidence suggests that Sammy Isaacs has always been right. Building on the meticulous and painstaking work of Manny Cohen (whom I’m glad to see participating in this discussion, after his many years of silence), Sam showed that the profession of “fart-wrangler” (“κλανιά πήρε” in the original Greek) was exclusive to the Sumerian hinterland and never even reached the coast, much less cosmopolitan Judea. It was a profession never used by the Maccabee descendency.

    The confusion seems to have arisen as a result of a mistranslation from the early Greek in one of the apocrypha used as a source by at least two of the authors of the synoptics. Phonetically, the Aramaic (here rendered as late Arabic) “المعجب بخادمه” was almost identical to the old Greek. But in Aramaic (and, indeed, in the early Arab scripts), it simply meant a “follower”.

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  • millertheanunnaki

    @ Zoe | November 24, 2011 at 3:31 PM |
    So you fell for the trap!
    You remain adamant that your god made the universe in 6 solar days- no more, no less!
    He deserves to be fired and not worshipped! Why would an all powerful, omniscient (know-it-all) creator of heaven and earth and two defective slaves have to take 6 days to complete a job that could have been done in 1 day, or 1 hour or even 1 second or, ad nauseam, 1 nanosecond. Why wait so long? Was he trying to impress other gods and made numerous errors, or what? Even Superman the ET could have done a faster and better job! Ask any child born with spina bifida why your god created him or her in his image.

    Like

  • Professor Dov Templebaum

    Professor Dov Templebaum

    My former (and brilliant) postgraduate pupil Judy Tabor has rightly enjoyed an excellent career since she left Mount Scopus. I have heard of her in connection with Rhodes Scholarships and Fulbright Fellowships, and I have no doubt that she deserves them all. Her scholarship on second-century Judea is unparalleled in its acuity and breadth of knowledge. As a historical geographer and, I daresay, as an archeologist, she has few peers.

    As a linguist of the ancient tongues, however, Dr. Tabor was never (shall we say) the best in the class. Her mistranslation of a mistranslation is enough, I think, to demonstrate just how wrong she is.

    I have never claimed to be a scholar of second-century Judea. I do make a strong claim, however, to being a scholar of first-century Judea. Dr. Tabor (and I insist that I wish her well) would do well to remember that.

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  • millertheanunnaki

    @ Professor Dov Templebaum | November 24, 2011 at 4:28 PM |

    Please explain to an undergrad like me. Are you referring to first and second century BCE or CE? Because if it is ‘BCE’, you should be a scholar of 2nd century before becoming a scholar of first century?

    Am I getting my nickers in a twist on this one, Professore, or it is way over my head, Sir?

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  • Perhaps I am too late to join this discussion. Judit, thank you for remembering. I still recall fondly those study groups in the basement on Mount Scopus.

    I have not been well for many years (hence my silence!!), but I think that better days are coming. I never really got over that bizarre episode with Rosie Templebaum. It seems to have haunted my life.

    But enough of that. I agree with you, of course. I’ve been trying to keep up with the literature. Sam Isaacs has done some great work, as far as I can see, and surely you’re right about the Greek. As to Prof. Dov, these days I really don’t know what to think. I was sorry to hear about Rosie. It’s a miserable way to go.

    But … you know …?

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  • To Miller:
    Your last piece to me seems full of desperation. You know very well that they are chinese and indian and others in the middle east who are christians. Your statement seems to imply that almost half the earth is being deprived of “power”. Furthermore, sun worship was well before christ. Most of the eastern countries were practitioners of it, especially the Egyptians during the time of Moses. That is why Moses could not accept the title of prince of Egypt; it would be to deny the ONLY TRUE God, maker of heaven and earth. Yes, Brother Miller in SIX days. That is why there is that weekly celebration called the Sabbath. It is a everlasting celebration to God’s act of creation. To be honest, your reference to the supplanting of the sun for the SON was the act of the Roman Catholic Church. This is why their implantation of pagan practices has seen an image of adoration of almost everything supposedly religious posted in all of their churches.

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  • millertheanunnaki

    @ lemuel | November 24, 2011 at 5:58 PM |
    “You know very well that they are chinese and indian and others in the middle east who are christians.”
    Come on lemuel! I might appear desperate but you are certainly scraping the barrel! Yea, how many Christians really practice in those lands you just mentioned? Certainly not as much as Muslims, Hindus and those of other non-Christian faiths that live in so-called Christian lands. Most of these ‘orthodox’ Christians don’t even see Jesus as God but as only as the Son of God. Check out Britain, Europe, Canada, Trinidad & Guyana!
    But if you have so much faith in your religion why are you an armchair Christian? You should be doing what Jesus and his disciples did and travel the hi-ways and y-ways and letting sinners and non-believers know about your sweet Jesus and the salvation he has to offer in order to have eternal life. You should start by visiting the Hindus and Muslims in Barbados and let them know that unless they accept your Jesus as God they will not be saved from damnation and will burn in Hell. I will come along and even promise to change my ways from Sun Worship to Son Worship.
    Deal or no deal, lemuel boy!

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  • Bring back Macabee Version

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  • @ Lemuel…

    Are you a Seventh Day Adventist (SDA)?

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  • Why did God take six days to create everything instead of existence all at once?

    The whole Word of God is founded upon the number SEVEN .All of life revolves around this number and it is the holy number of God. Seven symbolizes completeness or perfection. There are 7 recorded statements of Jesus while He was on the cross, there are 7 churches, with their 7 spirits, in Revelation, Jerusalem is 777 meters above sea level, the Israelites marched around Jericho for 7 days before its fall, when 7 priests blew 7 trumpets 7 times, there are 7 weeks between Passover and Pentecost. SEVEN symbolizes Spiritual Perfection and used over 700 times in the Bible. It is used 54 times in the Book of Revelation. The word FINISHED is also connected with the number SEVEN. In Revelation 10:7 we read, “In the days of the voice of the SEVENTH angel, when he shall begin to sound the mystery of God should be FINISHED.” 7-day week exists only because it was revealed by God to humanity, according to His Will.

    Conclusion: We need to remember that God’s methods, His timings and His moments and thinking are often different from our timing and thinking we must allow let God be God, and do only what He is calling us to do and Live the life what God called us now and be obedient to him instead of wrestling with God’s method and God’s moment. We need to know that “God Has a Plan and purpose for everything and he uses everything for good, and everything has a reason for happening (Ecclesiastes 3:1-10). Apostle Paul clearly said that God has only provided us with a limited understanding. The scriptures says that we are to Avoid worthless, foolish talk that only leads to more godless behavior (2 Timothy 2:16)

    O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge— by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith. Grace be with you. Amen. 1 Timothy 6:20–21

    But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. 10 Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, 11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned. Titus 3:9-11.

    The Word of God directs us NOT to answer questions which have no answer…”But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.” -2nd Timothy 2:23

    Nnaki/Raelian, Stop asking foolish questions, man; but then again, one cannot expect other from such a Raelian like you!

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  • Church in China experiencing ‘tremendous’ growth
    by Dibin SamuelPosted: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 11:35 (BST)

    The church in China is experiencing tremendous growth like never before, says the World Council of Churches (WCC).

    Mathews George Chunakara, Director of WCC’s International Affairs and Public Witness, said there had been a “unique and explosive growth” of Christianity among the Chinese people.

    “I have been visiting China for the last 15 years. I am astounded to see the tremendous growth there. Their worship places are now overflowing,” Chunakara told Christian Today.

    “It is not just the poor you see in churches, even the rich and educated are embracing Christianity. Beijing and Shanghai are the proof,” he added.

    The ecumenical leader compared freedom of religion in the country now to a decade ago, when the church kept a tight grip on the goings on in churches. He said the situation had “much improved” and that the government was now starting to “favour” religious people.

    In the early 1970s, there were an estimated 3 million Christians in China. Now, the number may be as high as 130 million. However, the government continues to keep a close eye on the activities of officials churches and there has been sporadic persecution against Christians belonging to unofficial house churches.

    “The Chinese government will not raid unless provoked. Now being the fastest growing economy, they know the importance of a harmonious society. To promote such a society, they are giving religion a special role,” says Chunakara.

    For instance, the Communist Government amended the Constitution two years ago to accommodate the role of religion.

    “You could not expect such a thing to happen 15 years ago,” Chunakara said.

    “Not only China, in many Asian countries the church is expanding. More people are coming to God. In addition, the participation of young people is absolutely remarkable in comparison with those in West. There is genuine spiritual eagerness among the grassroot level people,” said Chunakara.

    He says God is using the foolish to shame the wise. God is bringing a spiritual awakening in third world countries.

    Like

  • Zoe | November 24, 2011 at 9:21 PM |
    “The whole Word of God is founded upon the number SEVEN .All of life revolves around this number and it is the holy number of God. ”

    This biblical numerology sounds like a whole lot of sorcery and magic (black or white?- all the same)! One would have thought that 3 would be your favourite number – the 3 god heads and all that baloney!
    What you said about accepting things as written down or spoken by people pretending to be the mouthpieces of your god is a very good reason to dismiss the supremacy of any one religion.
    Again I will repeat my guiding principle when it comes to seeking knowledge:

    “Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. ~Buddha”

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  • @ Zoe | November 24, 2011 at 10:51 PM |
    Where there is money to be made commercialized Christianity would spot a business opportunity. You can bet your 7 last bottom dollars that these early commercial posts (like the newly opened up mining towns of the 19th C) are primarily owned by white American televangelists and religious venture capitalists!

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  • Astounding growth in the church worldwide

    Posted in The Holy Spirit is on the move by Seth Barnes on 3/4/2010

    As I said in an earlier blog, the world is getting brighter, not darker. Haiti was an example. What we thought was just a horrific event has been transformed into a catalytic moment in the life of the nation. And it represents a God who is on the move around the world.

    We Americans tend to confuse our personal and national circumstances with that of the church around the world. We may be struggling, but God’s work is not. Things are moving rapidly across the globe. More people are coming to Christ now than at any other time in the history of the world. Consider these facts as presented in a recent article by J. Lee Grady:
    There are now about 600 million Christians in Africa. Protestant Christianity grew 600 percent in Vietnam in the last decade. In China, where a 50,000-member megachurch was raided in Shanxi province a few weeks ago, there are now an estimated 130 million churchgoers.

    “We have no reason to fear the future. Whatever challenges loom ahead, the same God who carried us through this past decade will give us success in the next one.”

    Astounding church growth has occurred in Guatemala, Brazil, India and Ethiopia. In Nepal, which had no Christians in 1960, there are now a half-million believers. The Christian population of Indonesia has mushroomed from 1.3 million to 11 million in 40 years.

    Smug scholars in Europe and the United States love to cite Islam as the world’s fastest-growing religion, but observers know the facts: Christianity, while waning especially in Europe, is growing faster than ever in the Southern hemisphere. Philip Jenkins, who wrote The Next Christendom in 2002, declared: “The center of gravity has moved to the global south. So if we’re looking for the religion that is going to affect the largest number of lives in the 21st century, it is almost certainly going to be Christianity.”
    We need to be encouraged with what God is doing in the earth. If you’ve been a witness to this move of God, what have you seen lately?

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  • Zoe posted……
    “Smug scholars in Europe and the United States love to cite Islam as the world’s fastest-growing religion, but observers know the facts: Christianity, while waning especially in Europe, is growing faster than ever in the Southern hemisphere.”

    This I found on Wiki…..

    Claims to be the fastest growing religion

    Note that it would be an ‘argumentum ad populum’ fallacy to claim that being the “fastest growing religion” has any logical consequences about the truth of that religion.

    While it is possible to find claims that almost any religion is the fastest growing, it is much harder to find ones backed up by scientific data.

    Where is your scientific proof here Zoe? You cant just cut and paste another’s perspective and parade them on BU as facts…..come on man, You should ‘know’ better.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_be_the_fastest-growing_religion

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  • The more I read the Christians on BU and elsewhere, the more I am convinced that the whole Bible story is an ‘argumentum ad populum’ 😉

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  • To Miller:
    How can you quote from a book or traditional eastern enlightenment scrolls to defeat sayings and writings in another book, the Bible. Are you telling us that university students and scientists must now ignore the previous work done in a discipline and “reason” on it before it can be accepted as credible? Are you saying that all libraries and sources of books or thoughts of human contemplation should be discarded for your “reason”. Yet, the philosophers who were on the fore front of the reason movement “wrote” down their thoughts for posterity, and we now read them. How did you know about much of the “adverse learning” that you demonstrate here each day? Did you “reason” it out? How long did each “reason” take? Who or what validated your conception of what was the thing to believe? Was it another human being, a holy guru from the east or one of your friends from Kensington New Road? Miller my friend you are sounding less lucid than a person in the full flight of a psychosis.

    Again stop with the chinese and indian fulcrum; it shall not accomplish its desired effect. You challenged christians to go on the highway and the byway to spread the good news about salvation. Yet, when it is being done right here on this blog; you are spewing all kinds of venom. You latest pieces do show desperation creeping in; maybe the “reason” construct is not holding, but you are allowed to say “I was down the wrong path”. You are among friends.

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  • To Technician:
    I am a believer in the traditional God Command philosophical construct; just as many here gleefully wear on their shirt sleeves their John Stuart Mills, Nietzche, St. Augustine, relativism and cultural relativism constructs. I do not hide from what I believe and when that can be demonstrated to be wrong then I shall accept what is demonstrated to be right. There are Sabbath keeping churches that are not of the seventh day adventist ilk. These churches celebrate the Sabbath because as the SDAs they recognize that it celebrates God’s great creation.

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  • Inbreeding caused demise of the Spanish Habsburg dynasty, new study reveals

    ” One of Europe’s most powerful royal dynasties was so obsessed with securing its blue-blooded inheritance through family marriages that it brought about its own extinction through inbreeding, scientists have found.

    The Hapsburgs ruled Spain from 1516 to 1700, presiding over the first global empire, but died out after generations of intermarriage, according to the first genetic analysis of the family.

    The royal fashion of marrying relatives to preserve the dynastic heritage culminated in a monarch who was so genetically inbred that he was unable to provide an heir and power passed to the French Bourbons.

    The dynasty was one of the most important and influential royal families in Europe – branches of the family ruled Austria, Hungary, Belgium, the Netherlands, the German empire and Spain.

    Scientists have examined the family tree of the last of the Spanish Habsburgs, King Charles II, who died in 1700 at the age of 39, and discovered that, as a result of repeated marriages between close relatives, he was almost as inbred as the offspring of an incestuous relationship between a brother and sister or father and daughter.
    The study found that nine out of 11 marriages over the 200 years were between first cousins or uncles and nieces, producing a small gene pool that made rare recessive genetic illnesses more prevalent.

    “Only half of the babies born to the dynasty during the period studied lived to see their first birthday, compared with about 80 per cent of children in Spanish villages at the time.

    The study, published this week in the journal Public Library of Science One, indicated that Charles II suffered from two separate rare genetic conditions, which were almost certainly the result of his ancestors’ marriage patterns and which effectively assured that the dynasty died out with him.
    Nicknamed El Hechizado (“the hexed”) because of his deformities, Charles II was not only inflicted with an extreme version of the Hapsburg chin, as immortalised in portraits by Titian and Velazquez, but his tongue was said to be so big for his mouth that he had difficulty speaking and drooled.

    Historical accounts record that he also suffered from an oversized head, intestinal upsets, convulsions and, according to his first wife, premature ejaculation and his second wife, impotence.

    “He was unable to speak until the age of four, and could not walk until the age of eight. He was short, weak and quite lean and thin,” said Gonzalo Alvarez, of the University of Santiago de Compostela, who led the study.

    “He looked like an old person when he was 30 years old, suffering edemas [swellings] on his feet, legs, abdomen and face. During the last years of his life he could barely stand up and suffered from hallucinations and convulsive episodes,” he said.

    The scientists concluded that medical problems of Charles II were not random but could be symptoms of two genetic disorders; an inherited thyroid deficiency, and renal tubular acidosis, a type of kidney failure that can cause metabolic problems.”

    By Fiona Govan in Madrid

    1:36PM BST 15 Apr 2009.
    THE TELEGRAPH.

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  • @ Lemuel….

    A simple yes or no was all that was required……geeez.

    Why do you always have to cloud the issue?

    Is the answer a yes or no?

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  • To Technician:
    In your technical parlance, do not try to pigeon hole me and then attempt to bombard me from a point of view where you think I can not mount a frontal or rear guard attack. That shall never happen. The only one here who is cloudy is you. Whether I am of the SDA faith or not is not relevant here. You have already voiced your portion on the “evil” impact of faith. I don’t see how a yes or no could be any help to you, spiritually, at this stage of your gleeful scoffing and tearing down of all things spiritual.

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  • To ALL BU Scoffring ‘Bildge Pumpers’ I re-post my challenge to Nnaki/Raelian, and ALL ‘Scoffers’ whose ONLY, non-substantive folly, IS* stupid “REDHERRING” voidless, nonsense, that any idiot can write in short, futile sentences, as you all continue doing!

    Zoe | November 23, 2011 at 8:26 PM | Nnaki/Raelian, I challenge you, to cogently, coherently, objectively, scientifically, and, if possible, logically and honestly, to refute, what I posted earlier re the historic veracity of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ; and likewise, the following; Remember, Nnaki/Raelian, NO imagenary folly and unsupported, Star Trek nonsense. Take your time, don’t choke now; this ain’t no JACKASS, in your Pythonated gut!

    Adam, Eve and Noah vs Modern Genetics
    by Dr Robert W. Carter, and my other posts, from bright intelligent men/women, REFUTE them, with sound counter evidence, NOT IGNORANCE, folly and Bildge Pumping HOGWASH!

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  • @ Lemuel….

    I asked a simple question, you find it hard to answer, now you go on a rant….sad.
    If you are ashamed to say to which denomination you belong, you are doing something wrong but I do understand the rules of one day Christianity.
    Dont worry about me, I am happy where I am and I can say exactly who I am and where I stand without confusion.
    You are correct, what you are has absolutely no bearing on my life, you neither add or subtract to it.
    What I do find amazing about people like you and Zoe, is the fact that you always call others scoffers and mockers but in reality, aren’t you all scoffers and mockers also?
    Don’t you all scoff at other beliefs? Don’t you all mock other beliefs and even go as far as condemning them because you believe yours to be the only truth?

    Here we have Zoe frothing and spitting venom because others dont believe in his stories.
    You all can’t scare or insult people into believing.
    Stupse!

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  • To Technician:
    Like a spoiled child you did not get your little straw doll to put some blows on, and there you go frowning and scoffing. You can call me what ever, but if you are so settled in your beliefs and point of contemplation why would you worry about my one dayism. About right and wrong, Tech, some day coming soon if your God be God we shall see, but if the God of the Bible affirms he is the real and only God, it would have been a shame that a little herb cause you to lose all of the profit from his LIGHT.

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  • @ Lemuel…..

    I dont tear down all things spiritual….

    I tear down all things ReLIEgion!!

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  • A little herb….?!?!?

    LOL….here you go again…..that little herb was created by your God for man..lol.

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  • To Technician:
    I really had a good laugh at that last one. I must concede it was created by Him, but did he intend that it be used for recreational purposes. That is what most use it for.

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  • To Techie:
    I try to affirm all things spiritual from the word of God. Religion has been misused and abused by man, and it continues today.Have to go see you later.

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  • To Techie:
    I try to affirm all things spiritual from the word of God. Religion has been misused and abused by man, and it continues today.

    Glad to read this but IMHO, you are mixing the two, which can be dangerous (as aptly demonstrated over and over by Zoe).
    ReLIEgion and Spirituality is not (IMHO) the same (Zoe will refute this with cut and paste).

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  • millertheanunnaki

    “Again stop with the chinese and indian fulcrum; it shall not accomplish its desired effect.”

    Your Holy Highness, please pardon my political incorrectness!
    Is it OK to refer to them as “significant cultures from the Eastern Hemisphere which do not accept the teaching that Jesus is God or even as the Only Son of God as part of the religious practices?
    My question to you is this: Do you see these “other religions’ as spiritually inferior to your Christianity to the extent that the practitioners will never be saved through grace and enter into the Kingdom of God?
    Please answer in a simple and clear manner?

    Secondly, do you accept the Book of Revelation as a clear indication of the very imminent return of Jesus Christ to Earth when those who believe in him will be taken to Heaven?
    Again a simple answer will suffice.

    Thanks very much for your cooperation, your Holiness!

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  • Why is Jesus the only way to heaven/God?

    Why is Jesus the only way? Because Jesus said He was the only way. “I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me,” (John 14:6). Of course, just because someone says he is the only way, doesn’t mean he is. But, this is why we need to look at Jesus’ miracles as a proof that He was right about who He said He was. Jesus walked on water, calmed a storm with a command, raised people from the dead, and rose from the dead Himself. It is the fact of His incredible deeds.

    Now, if Joe Schmoe on the street said that he was the only way to God, we’d look at him and say, “Yeah, right.” But, if Joe calmed a storm with a command, raised someone from the dead, walked on water, etc., that would add a lot of credibility to his claim. After all, he is demonstrating extraordinary abilities consistent with his claim.

    This is the case with Jesus. He made extraordinary claims and performed extraordinary deeds. Therefore, it is logical to conclude that what Jesus said was true — especially since He claimed to be God (John 8:24,58; 10:30-33; 5:18).

    Also, consider that no one else has done what Jesus has done. No one else has risen from the dead, calmed storms, raised others from the dead, and fulfilled numerous prophecies, etc. Though some may have claimed to be able to do one or two of these things, none have done all the things Christ has done as well as claim divinity. Since Christ has done all of these things and since He claims to be God in flesh, then it is logical to believe what He has said… that He is the only way.

    As we speak, many Indians, Chinese, and thousands of Muslims across the Middle East, and elsewhere in countries, that have traditionally embraced a variety of other non-Christian beliefs, are coming to The Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Saviour and Lord of all mankind, with Glorious testimonies of His liberating POWER, presence and PEACE in their lives, accompanied by many miraculous events, I.e., healing of sickness. etc, which they never experienced before; as HE* said, it would happen, IF* you you BELIEVE* in Him!

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  • Jesus The Only Way To Heaven.

    The Jesus Movement of the 1960s and ’70s, the “One Way” sign-the index finger held high-became a popular icon. “One Way” bumper stickers and lapel pins were everywhere, and the “One Way” slogan for a time became the identifying catchphrase of all evangelicalism.

    Evangelicalism in those days was an extremely diverse movement. (In some ways it was even more eclectic than it is today.) It encompassed everything from Jesus People, who were an integral part of that era’s youth culture, to straight-line fundamentalists, who scorned everything contemporary. But all of them had at least one important thing in common: They knew that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven. “One Way” seemed an unshakable belief that all evangelicals held in common.

    That is no longer the case. The evangelical movement of today is no longer unified on this issue. Some who call themselves evangelicals are openly insisting that faith alone in Jesus is not the only way to heaven. They are now convinced that people of all faiths will be in heaven. Others are simply cowardly, embarrassed, or hesitant to affirm the exclusivity of the gospel in an era when inclusivity, pluralism, and tolerance are deemed supreme virtues by the secular world. They imagine it would be a tremendous cultural faux pas to declare that Christianity is the truth and all other faiths are wrong. Apparently, the evangelical movement’s biggest fear today is that Christians will be seen as out of harmony with the world.

    Postmodernism
    Why has this dramatic shift taken place? Why has evangelicalism abandoned what believers once all agreed is absolutely true? I believe it is because church leaders, in their desperate quest to be relevant and fashionable, have actually failed to see where the contemporary world is going and why.

    The dominant worldview in secular and academic circles today is called postmodernism. To the postmodernist, reality is whatever the individual imagines it to be. That means what is “true” is determined subjectively by each person, and there is no such thing as objective, authoritative truth that governs or applies to humanity universally. The postmodernist naturally believes it is pointless to argue whether opinion A is superior to opinion B. After all, if reality is merely a construct of the human mind, one person’s perspective of truth is ultimately just as good as another’s. “Truth” becomes nothing more than a personal opinion, usually best kept to oneself.

    That is the one essential, non-negotiable demand postmodernism makes of everyone: We are not supposed to think we know any objective truth. Postmodernists often suggest that every opinion should be shown equal respect. And therefore, on the surface, postmodernism seems driven by a broad-minded concern for harmony and tolerance. It all sounds very charitable and altruistic. But what really underlies the postmodernist belief system is an utter intolerance for every worldview that makes any universal truth-claims-particularly biblical Christianity.

    Postmodernism and the Church
    The church today is filled with people who are advocating postmodern ideas. Some of them do it self-consciously and deliberately, but most do it unwittingly. (Having imbibed too much of the spirit of the age, they are simply regurgitating worldly opinion.) The evangelical movement as a whole, still recovering from its long battle with modernism, is not prepared for a new and different adversary. Many Christians have therefore not yet recognized the extreme danger posed by postmodernist thought.

    Postmodernism’s influence has clearly infected the church already. Evangelicals are toning down their message so that the gospel’s stark truth-claims don’t sound so jarring to the postmodern ear. Many shy away from stating unequivocally that the Bible is truth and all other religious systems and worldviews are false. Some who call themselves Christians have gone even further, purposefully denying the exclusivity of Christ and openly questioning His claim that He is the only way to God.

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  • Jesus The Only Way To Heaven

    The biblical message is clear. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me” (John 14:6). The apostle Peter proclaimed to a hostile audience, “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12). The apostle John wrote, “He who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him” (John 3:36).

    Again and again, Scripture stresses that Jesus Christ is the only hope of salvation for the world. “For there is on God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5). Only Christ can atone for sin, and therefore only Christ can provide salvation. “And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life” (1 John 5:11-12).

    Those truths are antithetical to the central tenet of postmodernism. They make exclusive, universal truth claims, declaring Christ the only true way to heaven and all other belief-systems erroneous. That is what Scripture teaches. It is what the true church has proclaimed throughout her history. It is the message of Christianity. And it simply cannot be adjusted to accommodate postmodern sensitivities.

    Instead, many Christians just pass over the exclusive claims of Christ in embarrassed silence. Even worse, some in the church, including a few of evangelicalism’s best-known leaders, have begun to suggest that perhaps people can be saved apart from knowing Christ.

    Christians cannot capitulate to postmodernism without sacrificing the very essence of our faith. The Bible’s claim that Christ is the only way of salvation is certainly out of harmony with the postmodern notion of “tolerance.” But it is, after all, just what the Bible plainly teaches. And the Bible, not postmodern opinion, is the supreme authority for the Christian. The Bible alone should determine what we believe and proclaim to the world. We cannot waver on this, no matter how much this postmodern world complains that our beliefs make us “intolerant.”

    Tolerant Intolerance
    Postmodernism’s veneration of tolerance is its most obvious feature. But the version of “tolerance” peddled by postmodernists is actually a twisted and dangerous corruption of true virtue.

    Incidentally, tolerance is never mentioned in the Bible as a virtue, except in the sense of patience, forbearance, and longsuffering (cf. Ephesians 4:2). In fact, the contemporary notion of tolerance is a pathetically feeble concept compared to the love Scripture commands Christians to show even to their enemies. Jesus said, “Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you” (Luke 6:27-28; cf. vv. 29-36).

    When our grandparents spoke of tolerance as a virtue, they had something like that in mind. The word once meant respecting people and treating them kindly even when we believe they are wrong. But the postmodern notion of tolerance means we must never regard anyone else’s opinions as wrong. Biblical tolerance is for people; postmodern tolerance is for ideas.

    Accepting every belief as equally valid is hardly a real virtue, but it is practically the only kind of virtue postmodernism knows anything about. Traditional virtues (including humility, self-control, and chastity) are openly scorned, and even regarded as transgressions in the world of postmodernism.

    Predictably, the beatification of postmodern tolerance has had a disastrous effect on real virtue in our society. In this age of tolerance, what was once forbidden is now encouraged. What was once universally deemed immoral is now celebrated. Marital infidelity and divorce have been normalized. Profanity is commonplace. Abortion, homosexuality, and moral perversions of all kinds are championed by large advocacy groups and enthusiastically promoted by the popular media. The postmodern notion of tolerance is systematically turning genuine virtue on its head.

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  • Jesus The Only Way To Heaven

    Just about the only remaining taboo is the naïve and politically incorrect notion that another person’s alternative lifestyle, religion, or different perspective is wrong. One major exception to that rule stands out starkly: It is OK for postmodernists to be intolerant of those who claim they know the truth, particularly biblical Christians. In fact, those who fancy themselves the leading advocates of tolerance today are often the most outspoken opponents of evangelical Christianity.

    Why is that? Why does authentic biblical Christianity find such ferocious opposition from people who think they are paragons of tolerance? It is because the truth-claims of Scripture-and particularly Jesus’ claim to be the only way to God-are diametrically opposed to the fundamental presuppositions of the postmodern mind. The Christian message represents a death blow to the postmodernist worldview.

    But as long as Christians are being duped or intimidated into softening the bold claims of Christ and widening the narrow road, the church will make no headway against postmodernism. We need to recover the distinctiveness of the gospel. We need to regain our confidence in the power of God’s truth. And we need to proclaim boldly that Christ is the onlytrue hope for the people of this world.

    That may not be what people want to hear in this pseudo-tolerant age of postmodernism. But it is true nonetheless. And precisely because it is true and the gospel of Christ is the only hope for a lost world, it is all the more urgent that we rise above all the voices of confusion in the world and say so.

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  • millertheanunnaki

    @Zoe | November 25, 2011 at 9:43 PM |
    “Jesus The Only Way To Heaven”

    Hi Flyweight! I saw your cut & paste post. But I am waiting to receive a post from the pretender to the heavyweight throne King Lemuel.
    But I guess we will have to wait until after his Pharisaical observance of the Sabbath!

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  • My preceeding three posts, pointed out the Absolute ‘Truth claim’ that Jesus Christ IS* the Only way to Almighty God, His Father, and heaven.

    This ‘Truth claim’ by Jesus is either TRUE or FALSE, either/or!

    The three fundamental Laws of Logic, are themselves, Absolute Truths, and are universal, regardless of culture, race, creed, or ethnicity.

    1) The law of Identity
    2) The law of Excluded Middle
    3) The law of Non-Contradiction

    Assessing competing, and contradictory ‘World views’ bears out the utterly fundamental grounding of Logic, for thinking critically, objectively, coherently, about ‘truth’ and World views. These logical laws point us toward truth.

    Reason, the ability to think rationally, critically, is* necessar for ‘Revelation’
    (facts, evidence) to be coherent.

    Without these Laws of Logic, NO rational thought would be possible. To reject these basic laws of logic, one would have to ‘utilize’ these very laws to reject them, thereby refuting one’s own argument.

    Logical Absolutes form the very foundations of how we approach and understand reality. Logical absolutes are unchangeable absolute fundamental laws of logic. There are three logical absolutes which are the law of identity, law of non-contradiction, and law of excluded middle. Any human being that seeks the truth and wishes to be able to support their beliefs would do well to know and study these laws.

    Law of Identity
    The Law of Identity states something is what it is:
    A = A. The law of identity is basic and fundamental for the other basic laws of logic. LI asserts that a particular entity or object IS* that particular object. In other words, it IS identical to itself. For example, ‘The Red pen IS the Red pen’ it is NOT, ‘The blue pen.’

    A certain rock is that rock. We identify the rock by our sense data, yet there is a true essence of the rock which exists exclusively apart from our sense data. So the rock is what it is independent of the attributes we ascribe to it. If no humans were around to observe the rock, it would still exist and its nature would still be what it is.

    Law of Excluded Middle

    The law of excluded middle says that a statement is either true or false. When someone states that a God exists the statement is either true or false but it cannot be both. The law of excluded middle ties in with the law of identity in this logic:

    A = A, is either true (A=A) or it is false (A=/=A)

    The law of excluded middle is not to be confused with a false dichotomy. A false dichotomy might state something like “either Christianity is true or Islam is true, can’t be both”. However there is the possibility that neither is true. A statement that has an excluded middle is Christianity is either true or false but it cannot be both.

    A statement is True, is one that ‘corresponds to reality.’ If statement “X” is true, corresponding to reality, then that implies that not-X is FALSE. In other words, if something is TRUE, this must exclude something, namely FALSITY. We are left with two exhaustive options – TRUTH or FALSITY.

    The LEM entails NO third way is possible. For example, Almighty God either exist, or He does not exist. There is no other alternative.

    Law of Non-contradiction

    The law of non-contradiction states that two opposing statements cannot both be true:

    A = A and A=/=A cannot both be true

    That is, A cannot be -A in the same respect or same time. In other words, two competing ‘Truth claims’ cannot be both right, in the same respect or the same time. They can both be wrong, BUT, they CANNOT* both be right. World views are all making ‘truth claims’ and the only sound method of evaluating their respective ‘truth claims’ is by utilizing these unalterable, unchanging Laws of Logic.

    The Historic Judeo/Christian Worldview.

    This World view contains claims about reality, which are either True or False..

    Therefore, any World view, must be subjected to, and must sustain, (3) test in order to be considered valid.

    1) Logical Consistency
    2) Empirical Adequacy
    3) Experiential Relevancy

    The only religious World view, across comparativer difficulties, premised on warranted, credible facts and evidence, that meet and sustains all three of these criteria, is the Historic Judeo/Christian World view.

    Secondly, and intrically connected to the above criteria for validity, every system must also demonstrate and deal with the following questions:

    1) Origin
    2) Meaning
    3) Morality, and
    4) Destiny.

    Again, the theistic Christian World view, is the ONLY one that convincingly demonstrate and sustian to, the above questions, unparalleled with any other religious world view.

    The structure of justification/warrant, in defending any propositional ‘Truth claim’ IS* coherence. Coherence IS* our sole criterion for TRUTH.

    Coherence is found throughout God’s Word the Bible, from beginning,
    Genesis, to the End, the Book of Revelation.

    ‘To say of what IS* that it IS*, or of what is NOT* that it is NOT* is TRUE.”
    (Aristotle, Metaphysics, 1077 b-26)

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  • The Book of Revelation: Timetable for the End Time
    The book of Revelation—a revealing of the future—is history written in advance.

    Does the book of Revelation give us additional details about events leading up to Christ’s return?

    “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near” (Revelation:1:1-3).

    The book of Revelation—a revealing of the future—is history written in advance. It describes in detail the events leading up to Christ’s return, then tells us what will happen beyond that time. Be sure to look up and read these scriptures and surrounding passages in your Bible.

    Does the book of Revelation confirm the sequence of events of Jesus Christ’s earlier prophecy?

    Carefully read and study Revelation:6:2-8. Here the same conditions Jesus Christ described in the Olivet Prophecy are present in symbols: the four horsemen of the apocalypse.

    The white horse represents a powerful, conquering religious deception. (Some assume that the rider of this horse is Jesus Christ, but a comparison with the description of the returning Christ in Revelation:19:11-16, and the sequence of events Christ gave in the Olivet Prophecy and the book of Revelation, shows they are not the same).

    The red horse (the color of fire and blood) and its rider clearly represent warfare. The black horse and rider depict famine (note the comment about the outrageously high cost of food). The sickly colored pale horse represents the sickness and disease that inevitably follow warfare and food shortages.

    How will the conditions represented by these four horsemen impact humanity?

    “. . . And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth” (Revelation:6:8).

    According to this prophecy, war, violence, starvation and disease may take hundreds of millions of lives. These disasters will also affect animals, which will also take a large toll of human life through predation and spread of disease.

    How does Revelation depict the sequence of events that will precede Christ’s return?

    “And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals” (Revelation:5:1).

    The book of Revelation depicts the events described in the Olivet Prophecy through a series of seven “seals.” In the time of the apostle John, who wrote this book under the inspiration of Jesus Christ (Revelation:1:1-2), official correspondence was customarily fastened with a wax seal. To read what was inside, the seal had to be broken and the scroll unrolled. This is what John saw in vision. (Be sure to study the charts on page 12 to better understand the flow of events described in the book of Revelation.)

    What do these seven seals symbolize?

    Revelation 6 describes the opening of the first six seals, which depict major events and trends. You should read this entire chapter carefully. The first six seals are:

    First seal (verse 2): religious deception (compare Matthew:24:4-5[4]And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.[5]For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.).

    Second seal (verses 3-4): war (compare Matthew:24:6-7[6]And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.[7]For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.).

    Third seal (verses 5-6): famine (compare Matthew:24:7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.).

    Fourth seal (verses 7-8): disease (compare Matthew:24:7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.).

    Fifth seal (verses 9-11): tribulation and persecution of true Christians (compare Matthew:24:9-13[9]Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.[10]And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.[11]And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.[12]And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.[13]But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.; Luke:21:12-19[12]But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name’s sake.[13]And it shall turn to you for a testimony.[14]Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:[15]For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.[16]And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.[17]And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake.[18]But there shall not an hair of your head perish.[19]In your patience possess ye your souls.).

    Sixth seal (verses 12-14): an earthquake and heavenly signs (compare Matthew:24:7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.; Luke:21:11And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.).

    What is unique about the seventh seal?

    “When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets” (Revelation:8:1-2).

    The seventh seal is divided into seven “trumpets,” which reveal further events leading up to Jesus Christ’s return. These events, which are not described in the Olivet Prophecy, are sometimes referred to as “the seven trumpet plagues.” The seventh seal is comprised of these seven events. Be sure to read all of Revelation 8 and 9, which describe the events to occur at the first six trumpets.

    The first six trumpets plagues are:

    First trumpet (Revelation:8:7): devastation of earth’s vegetation.

    Second trumpet (verses 8-9): devastation of oceans and seas.

    Third trumpet (verses 10-11): devastation of rivers and fresh water.

    Fourth trumpet (verse 12): sun, moon and stars partially darkened.

    Fifth trumpet (Revelation:9:1-11): a satanically influenced military power.

    Sixth trumpet (verses 13-19): an enormous rival military power.

    What happens as a result of this sixth trumpet plague?

    “By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed . . .” (Revelation:9:18).

    Here we read that another third of earth’s inhabitants will die at the hands of this massive 200 million-man army (verse 18). This is in addition to those who have lost their lives earlier. These frightening prophecies help us understand how all life on earth will be threatened with extinction!

    How do people react to these events? Do they finally repent of their evil and turn to God?

    “But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk. And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts” (verses 20-21).

    Incredible as it may seem, even after man has brought utter disaster on himself and after God begins to punish him for his rebellion and sins, man will still choose to defy his Creator. He will continue in the same direction that will bring mankind to the brink of extinction.

    What happens when the seventh trumpet sounds?

    “Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, ‘The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!'” (Revelation:11:15).

    “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first” (1 Thessalonians:4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:).

    The blast of the seventh trumpet announces the triumphant return of Jesus Christ to earth. “The kingdoms of this world” come under Christ’s dominion as the Kingdom of God is at last established on earth! At the same time, “the dead in Christ will rise”; God’s faithful servants throughout history will rise from their graves to eternal life with Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians:15:51-53[51]Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52]In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53]For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.).

    To better understand these vital subjects, be sure to request your free copies of the booklets What Is Your Destiny?, What Happens After Death? and The Gospel of the Kingdom. All discuss these subjects in much greater detail.

    Will Jesus Christ literally return to earth?

    “And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, from east to west, making a very large valley; half of the mountain shall move toward the north and half of it toward the south” (Zechariah:14:4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.).

    This obviously describes a physical, literal return to earth. Jesus Christ will return to the Mount of Olives, which overlooks Jerusalem from the city’s east side. Apparently a massive earthquake will then split the mountain in half, opening a new valley running east to west from Jerusalem to the Judean desert.

    Why will Jesus Christ return to earth?

    “Pilate therefore said to Him, ‘Are You a king then?’ Jesus answered, ‘You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world . . .” (John:18:37Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.).

    At Jesus’ trial before His crucifixion, the Roman governor, Pontius Pilate, asked Him if rumors about His being a king were true. Jesus responded that this was true, that He indeed was born to be a king. However, He also told Pilate, “My kingdom is not of this world” (verse 36). Christ’s purpose at that time was not to overthrow the Roman government and restore the kingdom of Israel, which people assumed was the intent of the Messiah. Jesus’ kingdom—the Kingdom of God—would not be established on earth until far into the future.

    Was Jesus Christ’s destiny prophesied to Mary before His conception and birth?

    “Then the angel said to her, ‘Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end'” (Luke:1:30-33[30]And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.[31]And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.[32]He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:[33]And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.).

    The angel told Mary that her son was destined to “reign over the house of Jacob”—the restored 12 tribes of the Israelite nation—in a kingdom that would have no end.

    Is Jesus Christ’s kingdom—the Kingdom of God—a literal kingdom?

    “I was watching in the night visions, and behold, one like the Son of Man, coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought Him near before Him. Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom the one which shall not be destroyed” (Daniel:7:13-14[13]I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.[14]And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.).

    In vision the prophet Daniel saw Jesus Christ—”one like the Son of Man”—come to God the Father—”the ancient of Days.” In this vision Christ was “given dominion and glory and a kingdom” in which “all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.” Notice that He will rule over physical peoples and nations of all languages. This is clearly describing literal rulership over physical, flesh-and-blood human beings.

    What will Jesus Christ’s title be at His return?

    “And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: King of kings and lord of lords” (Revelation:19:16).

    Jesus Christ was destined to rule! His kingdom was foretold by the Hebrew prophets, revealed to Mary before His conception and birth and affirmed by Jesus Christ Himself. He will return to rule on earth over all kingdoms, governments, peoples and nations. He will be the supreme authority, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords over all the earth!

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  • @ Zoe | November 26, 2011 at 10:35 AM |

    I am NOT sparring with you unless you land a punch with some feel in it!
    I am waiting on lemuel your new coach and promoter. It seems that PhD has abandoned your corner.

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  • It is very disheartening to read the comments on this blog, this could have been an avenue of intelligent discourse and advancement to those, who otherwise would not have a voice in the main-stream media.
    What I am bombarded with is nothing less than hate speech towards anything that is different. Fundamental Christians are targeted as bigots and simpletons at best and the bottom of the food chain at worse!!
    People like Zoe et al can argue theology and church history ad nauseum (their long-windiness gives me a migraine) followers of Jesus Christ and citizens of His Kingdom will talk to you nay-sayers about relationship, on that you cannot argue. When you have an experience with someone and you know what they have done for you, others may talk like a ‘shirt sleeve flapping in the wind’ nothing shakes your confidence.
    As far as Jesus Christ being the only way to God, believe or not- that is each individual’s choice!! Should I invite to my home in St. Lucy and inform you that there is only one set of directions to reach my home and you choose to disregard my directions, take your own course and then get lost, it is not my fault!
    God’s mercy and love is shown even in nature we cannot avoid His wonder and awesome power, His intelligence in design and creation, but a place has been reserved for us who constantly state that we want nothing to do with God, a place of thick darkness, of abject terror and torment, where even Death itself cannot die, because God is nowhere in that place everything that the opposite of His Nature will rule and reign- darkness, extreme pain, agony, torment, terror, eternal separation from mercy, forgiveness, even the ability to breathe fully, a place of rotted, burning flesh of man and beast, no water to quench the thirst, no neighbourly kindness, fire and heat so intense that one cannot breathe no better than an asthma sufferer, time would have ended so there is only unceasing eternity and a memory that will not stop reminding you that you could have followed His directions, all the songs and the sermons heard and a hardened misguided heart led you all the way, by one’s own choosing away from a Father who died to love you!!!

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  • @ Albranch | November 26, 2011 at 11:29 AM |
    “Should I invite to my home in St. Lucy and inform you that there is only one set of directions to reach my home and you choose to disregard my directions, take your own course and then get lost, it is not my fault!”

    What you have posited above is not in harmony with the teachings of Jesus as advised in the parable of the lost sheep.
    “If a man has a hundred sheep and one of them wanders away, what will he do? Won’t he leave the ninety-nine others on the hills and go out to search for the one that is lost?
    And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he will rejoice over it more than over the ninety-nine that didn’t wander away!
    In the same way, it is not my heavenly Father’s will that even one of these little ones should perish.”

    Matthew 18: 12-14

    Please in your response save us the ad hominems just tell us if the parable is applicable to the situation and your action you described in your thread.

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  • .What I am bombarded with is nothing less than hate speech towards anything that is different. Fundamental Christians are targeted as bigots and simpletons at best and the bottom of the food chain at worse!!….’

    Come again sir…..

    You slip is showing!!

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  • Albranch sounds like the typical JW.

    How can you state…..’As far as Jesus Christ being the only way to God, believe or not- that is each individual’s choice’…

    Then come back with the tried and tested scare tactics of …’ but a place has been reserved for us who constantly state that we want nothing to do with God, a place of thick darkness, of abject terror and torment, where even Death itself cannot die,’…..

    If we all have free will and some choose not to follow your (and Zoe’s et al) path…who are you to judge?
    Are you not then guilty of hypocrisy?

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  • To Miller:
    Having read your posts, I must admit that I had a good laugh, especially as I have been promoted as a promoter and then crowned royally with what most would consider to be what paddy shot at. But you should admit that Zoe’s piece on Post modernism is important as it has given rise to what some currently refer to as “open theism”. This something that I an sure that you miller would be very interested in.

    To understand the book of Revelation, one must first read and understand the book of Daniel. They complement each other. Why the book was written in the symbolism that it is in testifies to the King of Babylon’s dream about the statue. The bible is about about God’s interaction with man and His role in the affairs of man. The book of Revelation with its symbols gives some insight into the last days and the end of human time. No those who are chosen shall not live in Heaven; this earth shall be renewed and inhabited. The last chapters are specific about this.

    About not only the chinese but any group who does not hear the gospel message, I do not know how God intends to deal with those situations, but it is clear that those of us who have been exposed shall have no excuse. By the way the gospel has been preached in india and china for a long time now; the roman catholics have martyrs going back to the 16th century.

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  • To Miller:
    Within the plan of salvation, there is only ONE way to be saved. These other religions have no saviour, even the Jews are still waiting for THEIR messiah. The only religion that has a saviour is Christianity.

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  • “Within the plan of salvation, there is only ONE way to be saved. These other religions have no saviour, even the Jews are still waiting for THEIR messiah. The only religion that has a saviour is Christianity.”

    What a LOAD of GARBAGE Lemule you speak only for your self and this is why the world is in this state because of the religious dogma that has fcuked up the minds of people like you.

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  • You know what You CHRISTIANS reminds me of a Bunch of Communists.
    meaning Your Way or the Highway. i wonder what would Jesus think. No wonder he cautioned that many would be called but few would be chosen.to do his work .

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  • To Island Gal:
    I have been trying my best not to lay my written tongue on you. But this time I have to respond. Why are you so upset about people like me believing in a load of garbage? What is clear is that there will a time as it was in Egypt when the real God shall stand up. When he stands up, saying that you did not hear or know would not be enough. In trying to get rid of God, many of you have attempted to replace him with “reason”, the “force”, finding “self”, eastern religions, self awareness gurus, and we could go on and on. None of these can be your saviour, and you need one, Island.

    To AC:
    There are some things that I shall admit; present day christians are not the best example of what Christ wants. At times we are too judgmental, hypocritical, closed minded, too cold and not kind to our fellow men. But that does not take away from the fact that what is contained in the Bible is not true or shall not stand on the day when the king of kings and the lord of lords stand up. Guessing form the standards set by the creator, many of us shall stand condemned as shall many of you.

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  • Lemuel But you know who wrote the BIBLE. a bunch of judgemental ! Hypocrtical! Closeminded cold and not too kind to fellow man but yet you say what is written is TRUE! or is their an exception for the writersof the GOOD BOOK!

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  • Le Mule…..I do not need a saviour and my spiritual awakening has nothing to do with being saved. You are one mixed up individual that you will never see the forest.

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  • To AC:
    Stop putting words in my mouth; I never said anything about who wrote the Bible. I made a reference to present day christians ans their less than charitable behaviour towards their fellow man. All of us are sinners and I am sure those inspired writers would have had their failings, but that does not nullify what is being transmitted; hope for mankind. And if ever we need it we need it now.

    To Island:
    Your spiritual awakening has to make sense of this life. Why are you here, for what purpose to eat, sleep and then die or is there much more to it. Is there a need for mankind to be restored to their communication with God?

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  • Le MULE…..you haven’t made sense of your life on this planet . I don’t give a rat’s ass about why what and where. I live in the now and how I can make my life better with my fellow man. My interpretation of GOD is different from yours. The bible should be thrown in the garbage bin to allow man to develop to his highest potential.

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  • lemuel | November 27, 2011 at 1:14 AM |
    “To Miller:”.
    By Jove, the Sabbath is passed and no ass has fallen into the well! Thank you for responding to my post.
    So you are saying that these other religions and their practitioners are not worthy in the sight of your god and saviour! In other words, if they do not accept your lord and saviour Jesus Christ they don’t stand a chance of going to heaven and meeting your sweet Jesus as god, right? They stand less of a chance to see the face of god than a “snowcone” will last in hell!

    So what is your view of Christian Barbados buying Chinese made goods and Japanese vehicles- (I use the words Chinese and Japanese with your forgiveness in mind). Don’t you see these as goods tainted with the devil’s handiwork? Why support and enrich people who do not have anything to do with your lord and saviour, ask them to invest in your country, and then turn around and borrow money you know you can’t payback? Have you ever been to (patronised) a Chinese restaurant? You ought to be very careful or you might just see a devil in the wonton soup! But I believe you are very good are compartmentalising your life. Church on Saturday to pay homage to the god Saturnalis decry people of other faiths from Sunday to Friday but buy the material goods made by the same slaves to Satan.
    But before you come with your “holier-than-thou” harangue please respond to the second query that was posed to you regarding the Book of revelation. For ease of reference the second query is reproduced as follows:
    “Secondly, do you accept the Book of Revelation as a clear indication of the very imminent return of Jesus Christ to Earth when those who believe in him will be taken to Heaven?
    Again a simple answer will suffice.”

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  • To Miller:
    Never assume that I have not journeyed to China. You know as well as i do that to answer the question one would first have to know where to begin for one’s audience. You are making the isolation argument. And you know that that does not make any sense. Remember China did that with her great wall and spent centuries trying to catch up with the explosion of modern science and technology. Many of the trinkets you accuse me of hypocritically purchasing were products of her re-engineering exercise which saw her stealing western technology and at times making it better. The knowledge which is available to man is God given; hence, all of us should benefit from the engendering of life that it brings. By the way I do my own chinese fried rice; i have a difficulty with how it is prepared by them.

    I have said clearly in the last piece; this earth shall be renewed and those who have chosen God shall live here. Check the last chapters of Revelation. Yes, I believe in a literal return of our Lord and saviour Jesus christ. I do not interpret Revelation as visitations from beings from outer space. Miller, you are also aware that the globalization phenomena are responsible for all of us buying goods made in chine and the east. That is a guilt trip that can not work.

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  • Lemuel why are you saying that i put words in your mouth just the way you interpret the GOOD BOOK is the way you have mis screwed what i said all i did was to infer that all of mankind has the same shortcomings including those who wrote the GODLY BOOK which means it is not infallible since man is not infallible.Having said that the GODLY BOOK is subjected to criticism and correction

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  • To AC:
    The good book, the Bible, is a transmittal of God’s thoughts through the pen of men. Your ridiculous assumption would have these purveyors of those thoughts fornicating, stealing and at the same time writing a good holy book. Come on AC you are better than that; I have seen it in other posts. Do not let the carnality that you feel towards believers and their foibles get the best of you and sully your thinking.

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  • lemuel you seem to be skirting the issue as readily accepted by all Christians that the GOOD BOOK says that man is not perfect taking that into consideration it would leave no doubt in ones mind that the writings in the GODLY BOOK would indeed be not as precise as one wishes to believe.Even Moses and David and others GODLY men whom God had chosen fell prey to their imperfection because they are human
    BTW are you Scout! tell the TRUTH Godly Christian!

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  • To AC:
    You seem to want to make the argument that sinner do sinful things; the bible was written by sinners; therefore the bible is a sinful book. Look at your syllogism and recognize it for what it is; that is invalidity of it. This world and things you hold on to were conceptualized by sinners; does that make everything you do in life bad; does that make you a congenital thief or worse? No. The Bible itself does not run away from the sins of man; the mere fact that you can point to the sins of some of the great men in the Bible testifies to that, but does that destroy its message or standard for the way men should conduct themselves in this life. No. So do not in glee stand on your soap box. The bible is and shall remain the good book for life.

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  • Far from it i would not call the GOODLY BOOK a sinful book although iti does indeed records the sinful nature of some of GOD’s chosen people . However i would rather say ” IMPERFECT” since many of the writings can not be proven.
    BTW i see you chose to ignore the latter part of my previous post . SO i would interpret it that to be YES subject to correction only by YOU

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  • Are the aliens here or not

    Are you finding it difficult to understand how some human beings can treat other human beings as they do? Consider the possibility that aliens are here and interbreeding with human beings. Are you still finding it difficult?

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  • @ Lemuel…..

    Do you see now why I care nothing about ReLIEgon and Christianity?
    After reading your posts and some (the short) ones from Zoe, it only serves to reaffirm my belief……It is a sad joke!!
    You claim that Christianity was spread long ago in China by Roman Catholics…Zoe would argue to the death that it was not Christianity.
    On BU we have JWs, Mormons, SDAs, Zoes (yes, he deserves his own brand) et al.
    The one thing I find you all DO NOT have is tolerance!
    Have it ever occurred to you, that you also scoff and mock others?… or is it the fact you all think your specific group has the monopoly on the truth?….that is just pure arrogance!
    What makes it even more laughable is the way you all would gang up and ridicule, mock, scorn and condemn the non believers, using the Bible as your sword BUT can not even agree on the said Bible in its entirety. The non believers are more united than you guys…lol.
    Just listen to what the great Zoe really thinks of JWs, SDAs, Mormons, Catholics and Anglicans for starters.
    I suspect the others feel the same towards Zoe and others to….where then is the Christian’s credibility?……and please don’t quote the Bible…..you all have made a joke of the book.

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  • @ lemuel | November 27, 2011 at 10:28 AM |
    “Many of the trinkets you accuse me of hypocritically purchasing were products of her re-engineering exercise which saw her stealing western technology and at times making it better. ”

    So you denounce a people, in general, for not accepting the teachings laid down in your good book called the bible but yet buy gods made by “stolen technology” and in some cases ‘close to slavery’ labour.
    I thought one of the basic injunctions found in your book is: “Thou shall not steal!”
    Can I accuse you then of aiding and abetting in this theft and exploitation of human beings and also of buying and receiving stolen goods?
    Please bring a cogent argument why this charge should not apply!

    I will address your acceptance of the coming return of your Jesus as outlined in the Book of the Apocalypse in a separate thread.

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  • millertheanunnaki

    @lemuel | November 27, 2011 at 10:28 AM |
    “To Miller:
    I have said clearly in the last piece; this earth shall be renewed and those who have chosen God shall live here. Check the last chapters of Revelation. Yes, I believe in a literal return of our Lord and saviour Jesus christ. I do not interpret Revelation as visitations from beings from outer space.”
    Now that you have more “precisely” addressed my query about the return of your lord and saviour Jesus Christ should I assume his return is imminent given that the current events taking place across the globe are equivalent to the warning signs mentioned in the New Testament – Matthew chapter 24?
    So if the future of mankind is solely determined by the imminent return of Jesus why then do you rely on secular human activities and institutions to shape and determine man’s view of the future and his development? Truly your abiding faith in Jesus’s imminent return to Earth ought to be the main focus and concern of humans if they are to go to heaven or inhabit a ‘refreshed’ earth. So explain to us why you put so much “faith in the UWI’s future capacity to save Barbadians from socio-economic decay and destruction?
    Reproduced below is one of your contributions to the debate of financing the UWI.
    lemuel | November 25, 2011 at 8:04 AM |
    “Yes, we shall face or are facing tough economic times, but should we so dismantle a fundamental institution that when times improve it shall prove impossible to put together again.”

    Now surely this is not a show of faith in your Jesus’ return to sort out all of mankind’s problems on earth including Barbados! Your argument should be one chiselled along the path of Christian enlightenment by mandating that the institution be turned into a Judeo-Christian propaganda organ trumpeting the warning to the people that they must seek salvation and accept your lord before it is too late instead of teaching lies about rational though and reason. To quote you: “John Stuart Mills, Nietzche, St. Augustine, relativism and cultural relativism constructs” (and all that baloney- my emphasis added)!

    That multi-faith chapel that cost so much to build will be converted to a Christian fundamentalist performance centre to make American televangelist burn with envy.

    But be prepared to see a fall off in numbers. Muslims are doing very well educationally in Barbados and might not want to attend a learning institution where the names of Allah and Mohammed are banned.
    But as noted before you are extremely clever at pigeon-holing your schizophrenic intellectual eggs; ably at ease in separating your religious dogma addled ones from the more progressive, enlightened and materially practical fertile lot.

    A piece of homework for you and your new sidekick Zoe: Do a bit of research (Zoe can even cut & paste) on the coming galactic alignment or cross. This is an astronomical event whose last occurrence was approx 13000 years and is believed to have given rise to the legend of the great flood as mentioned in your story book where Noah is the main character in the fable.

    A bit of knowledge on this event might enlighten you and to more deeply appreciate the real meaning of the astral theological term you used, i.e. “ those who are chosen shall not live in Heaven; this earth shall be renewed and inhabited. The last chapters are specific about this.”

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  • Comparing science and the Bible

    Missing in this discussion is information that has been disallowed by the scientific method, which discards any information that cannot be verified or disproved by observation or experimentation.

    That missing information is found in the Bible. The scientific approach generally leads to rejection of biblical facts and statements about other intelligent life, because science cannot prove those statements. This isn’t necessarily the fault of science; it simply is the way the scientific discipline was established and functions. Of course, we can rely on something science has proven. But, like most things, even science has its limitations.

    When the Bible reveals something of a spiritual nature, such information is often beyond the level of science. Science is often incapable of proving or disproving what is stated. The Bible describes this kind of information as revealed knowledge, or knowledge we cannot discover through human effort alone.

    An interesting example of this is found in Matthew 16. Here, Jesus asked His disciples what people were saying about Him. The answers varied. Then He asked: “‘But who do you say that I am?’ Simon Peter answered and said, ‘You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.’ Jesus answered and said to him, ‘Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven'” (Matthew:16:15-17[15]He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?[16]And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.[17]And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.).

    Understanding Jesus Christ’s identity as the Son of God is not scientific; it is not in the flesh-and-blood realm, proven through a microscope or telescope. This kind of knowledge is beyond science. In His conversation with Peter, Jesus affirmed that only God reveals this kind of knowledge. This revealed knowledge is the missing component in man’s desire to understand his place in the universe. Without it, man will forever be left with a string of unanswered questions and endless possibilities.

    Of course, not all who claim revealed knowledge actually have it. Occasionally we learn of cultlike small groups that claim to have secret knowledge of the unknown. When tragedy results, like the recent mass suicide of the Heaven’s Gate group near San Diego, many are inclined to dismiss all revealed knowledge.

    The difference between these groups and the Bible is the SOURCE of their information. Even large, long-established religious assemblies have shown their inadequacies in interpreting and explaining the Bible and attempting to represent God’s revealed will. All groups have fallible human leaders, while the Bible contains the very words of God Himself. As 2 Timothy:3:16 “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: tells us, “all Scripture is given by inspiration of God.” Its authority is unassailable, whereas speculation of individuals remains just that-speculation.

    The Bible has answers

    So what can we learn from Scripture about extraterrestrial life and man’s place in the universe? The Bible reveals that there is extraterrestrial intelligent life, but NOT as many suppose. The Bible does not speak of aliens who live on other planets, but it does speak of a Spirit Being who “inhabits eternity” (Isaiah:57:15 “For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.).

    The Bible is silent about extraterrestrial life-forms as popularized in science fiction and the entertainment media, yet it is by no means silent about real extraterrestrial life in all its great abundance. The beings spoken of in the Bible are real. They have appeared and spoken directly to humans (Genesis:3:9-10[9] “And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?[10]And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.; 4:9; 16:9). The Bible records the existence of many millions of angelic beings (Revelation:5:11) who are “ministering spirits” to mankind in fulfillment of God’s purpose (Hebrews:1:13-14[13]But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?[14]Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?).

    The first verse of the Bible introduces us to the ultimate Spirit Being: God. “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis:1:1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.). It presents two pieces of revealed knowledge beyond the realm of science. The first is the existence of God. The second is found in the word created, a translation of the Hebrew word bara.

    “This verb is of profound theological significance, since it has only God as its subject. Only God can ‘create’ in the sense implied by bara. The verb expresses creation out of nothing, an idea seen clearly in passages having to do with creation on a cosmic scale…” (Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers, Nashville, “Create”).

    The concept of bringing the universe into existence from nothing is completely outside the parameters of scientific observation and experimentation. Science tells us a great deal about matter that already exists. It tells us that matter can change shapes and form. But science cannot account for the appearance of something that previously did not exist. It can only theorize about possible explanations for how everything we see around us came to exist from nothing.

    We see this even in the various theories for the evolution of life into the myriad forms we see today-all start by assuming that matter already existed.

    The Bible vs. evolution

    In the face of this fundamental deficiency, some have tried to blend revealed knowledge with scientific theory in what is known as theistic evolution, or a belief that God made matter and then allowed evolution to shape life. In a monumental announcement the Roman Catholic Church recently agreed that life as we know it may have come about in this way.

    Theistic evolution, however, is not the simple bridge between the spiritual and the physical worlds many would like. There are simply too many conflicts. The Bible, for example, reveals that God formed Adam from the dust of the ground (Genesis:2:7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.), not by evolutionary happenstance.

    Scientific limitations aside, the apostle Paul said, “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse” (Romans:1:20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:, New International Version).

    Science acknowledges that we live on planet Earth, but in rejecting revealed knowledge it can provide no absolutes about how our world came to be. In contrast, Paul said this beautiful planet, with its many sophisticated, interwoven relationships among its intricate array of life-forms, is testimony to God’s existence.

    The Bible further says, “The fool has said in his heart, ‘There is no God'” (Psalm:14:1The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.; 53:1). Why would anyone reject revealed knowledge simply because it did not meet humanly imposed limitations? Paul, speaking of man’s moral decline, explains: “For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools” (Romans:1:21-22[21]Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.[22]Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,, NIV).

    Mankind desperately needs the revealed knowledge that only the Bible can provide. Through the pages of this divinely inspired book, we learn not only about extraterrestrial intelligent life (God and the angelic realm), but how this planet and we humans came to be-and what God has in store as our ultimate destiny.

    A scientist’s last words

    The late Carl Sagan was respected worldwide as one of this century’s greatest scientists. His many credentials included his tenure as the David Duncan professor of astronomy and space sciences and director of the Laboratory for Planetary Studies at Cornell University. He also wrote 30 books and served as an adviser to NASA on the Mariner, Voyager and Viking unmanned space missions.

    Before dying from a rare disease in December 1996, he penned these words: “Six times now have I looked Death in the face. And six times Death has averted his gaze and let me pass. Eventually, of course, Death will claim me-as he does each of us. It’s only a question of when. And how.

    “I’ve learned much from our confrontations-especially about the beauty and sweet poignancy of life, about the preciousness of friends and family, and about the transforming power of love…

    “I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But as much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking” (Billions & Billions, Random House, New York, 1997, p. 214).

    Although he excelled in scientific endeavors as few others have ever done, Sagan’s otherwise expansive outlook was in many ways shackled by the scientific method to which he had devoted his life. This remarkable man had not come to trust in the revealed knowledge of the Bible-promises that human beings can eventually “be like” their Creator (1 John:3:1-2[1]Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.[2]Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.) and take on His “divine nature” (2 Peter:1:2-4[2]Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,[3]According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:[4]Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.).

    From the outset the Bible describes man as created “in the image of God” (Genesis:1:27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.). The profound ramifications of this concept are discussed and described throughout the rest of the Bible.

    Whether human beings understand these things or not, the Bible promises that “the glory of the LORD will be revealed, and all mankind together will see it. For the mouth of the LORD has spoken” (Isaiah:40:5And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it., NIV). In due time this will come to pass. The Good News is dedicated to sharing this revealed knowledge found within the Bible.

    The Bible is silent about extraterrestrial life, as it is popularly conceived, in other parts of the universe. At the same time, most of the world is markedly ignorant of the extraterrestrial life to which the pages of the Bible so abundantly testify. Mankind is also largely ignorant of the incredible future potential God has in store for human beings “out there.”

    There is indeed life out there-and your destiny is to become part of it if you so choose!

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  • Zoe | November 23, 2011 at 8:26 PM | Nnaki/Raelian, I challenge you, to cogently, coherently, objectively, scientifically, and, if possible, logically and honestly, to refute, what I posted earlier re the historic veracity of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ; and likewise, the following; Remember, Nnaki/Raelian, NO imagenary folly and unsupported, Star Trek nonsense. Take your time, don’t choke now; this ain’t no JACKASS, in your Pythonated gut!

    Adam, Eve and Noah vs Modern Genetics
    by Dr Robert W. Carter, and my other posts, from bright intelligent men/women, REFUTE them, with sound counter evidence, NOT IGNORANCE, folly and Bildge Pumping HOGWASH!

    Come now Nnaki/Raelian, stop crawling around like an ANT caught in the Epidermis of an Elephants FOOT, and respond and refute my re-posted challenge to you as per above!!

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  • Signs In The Heavens

    Christians are naturally interested in heaven. Many rightfully look forward to going there eventually, according to God’s plan and schedule. But what exactly, or where exactly, is heaven?

    The term we know as heaven is the English translation of the original two words in the Bible. The Hebrew word in the Old Testament is pronounced roughly shaw-may, and the Greek word in the New Testament is pronounced roughly, oo-ran-aws. Both mean the same thing – either the sky, or the outer space above it, depending on the context of what the writer was talking about. Sky or space are quite accurate modern substitutes for heaven.

    If you happen to be someone interested in astronomy, the years ahead are going to provide you with many interesting observing sessions. No one, in fact, will miss it. There is a lot about to happen up there.

    Some coming attractions:

    •”…the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars [meteorites] will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky…” (Matthew 24:29-30)

    •”After He said this, He was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid Him from their sight”…”why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, Who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven” (Acts 1:9,11). See The Return Of Jesus Christ

    •”something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea” (Revelation 8:8). See A Huge Mountain, All Ablaze and The Apostle John.

    •”a great star, blazing like a torch, fell from the sky” (Revelation 8:10)

    •”a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them turned dark. A third of the day was without light, and also a third of the night” (Revelation 8:12). See The Seven Seals

    •”And he performed great and powerful signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men” (Revelation 13:13). See The Great False Prophet

    •”I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know – God knows. And I know that this man – whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows – was caught up to Paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that a man is not permitted to tell” (2 Corinthians 12:2-4). See On The Road To Damascus

    •”But in keeping with His promise, we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness” (2 Peter 3:13).

    Because Satan knows the incredible significance of the planetary and other heavenly aspects and SIGNS of the Return of Jesus Christ, he, the father of ALL LIES and DECEPTION, continues to CONFUSE the likes of Nnaki/Raelian, et al of his ilk, with his FALSE Demonic interpretations, of such Astronomical activities, keeping them in his Satanic DARKNESS!

    NO LIE is of the Truth!

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  • @ Zoe | November 27, 2011 at 10:59 PM |
    Comparing science and the Bible
    “Then He asked: “‘But who do you say that I am?’ Simon Peter answered and said, ‘You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.’ Jesus answered and said to him, ‘Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven’” (Matthew:16:15-17[15]He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?[16]And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.[17]And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.)”

    This is clear biblical evidence that JESUS IS NOT GOD. Irrefutable evidence straight from the “Master’s” mouth confirming scientifically that Jesus is not your God but a creation of your God. Can a single god be in heaven looking after the billions of stars and other planets while he becomes a shape shifter or a “Q” on Earth being a fisher of Piscean humans? The coming age of Aquarius would remove the dominance of the fish motif with coming end of papal control.
    Prove what is written that is supposed to be coming from the mouth of the Son of Man on Earth with reference to His Father (SUN) in the Sky to be -“bilge pumping, stupid, void and non-substantive nonsense that any idiot can write in short, futile sentences”- to quote you.
    Let us hear your spin on this Yorker!

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  • The Deity of Christ: That He IS* Co-Eternal, Co-Equal, Co-Omnipotent, Co-Omniscient, Co-Omnipresent, Co-Immutible with Almighty God, distinguishable, yet, indivisible in nature, and attributes; He is God of very God, as revealed in His Word, the Scriptures, the Bible.

    During the filming of the Exorcist the famous Swedish actor Max Von Sydow was having trouble with his lines. The director William Friedkin recalls: “I threw the script on the bed, grabbed him, and said ‘What is wrong?’ He said ‘I don’t believe in God, and I don’t believe in this.’ I said ‘But Max, you played Christ in The Greatest Story Ever Told.’ He said, ‘Yes. But I played him as a man’.” (Celebrities in Hell, p. 269). It’s the question of the ages. Is Christ merely a man or is He God manifest in the flesh? Since the word ‘deity’ derives from the Latin ‘deus’ (a god), to assert the deity of Christ is to claim that the man who walked the dusty roads of ancient Galilee was none other than God incarnate.

    There are eight lines of evidence worthy of consideration in making the case for the deity of Christ:

    1. Christ possesses the attributes of deity.

    2. Christ possesses divine offices

    3. Christ possesses divine relationships

    4. Christ acts with all the prerogatives of deity

    5. Christ possesses the names and titles of God

    6. Christ claimed to be God

    7. Christ accepted divine worship

    8. Direct proof texts

    1. Christ possesses the attributes of deity.

    There are certain characteristics that are true of God alone. Whoever has these characteristics or attributes must of necessity be God. The following divine characteristics are attributed to Christ in the Bible:

    a. He is Eternal (Isa 9:6, Micah 5:2, John 1:1, John 8:58)

    b. He is Immutable or unchanging (Mal 3:6, Heb 13:8, Heb 1:10-12)

    c. He is Omnipotent or all-powerful (Rev 1:8, Phil 3:21, 1 Cor 15:25, Matt 28:18)

    d. He is Omniscient or all-knowing (Matt 12:25, chs. 24-25, Luke 6:8, 9:17, John 1:47-51, 2:24-5, 4:17-18, 6:61, 64, 13:1, 11, 16:30, 18:4, 21:17, Col 2:3)

    e. He is Omnipresent (Matt 18:20, Matt 28:20, John 1:48, Mark 6:48)

    f. He is Impeccable or not liable to sin (1 John 1:5, 2 Cor 5:21, 1 Pet 2:22, 1 John 3:5)

    2. Christ possesses divine offices.

    There are certain offices that are unique to God. In sharing these offices Christ is given equality with God by the scriptures of truth:

    a. He is the Creator of the universe (Gen 1:1, John 1:3, Col 1:16, Heb 1:10)

    b. He is the Sustainer of the universe (Heb 1:3, Col 1:17).

    3. Christ possesses divine relationships.

    The relationships that Christ has, as revealed in scripture, put His deity beyond doubt:

    a. He is one in nature and essence with the Father (John 10:30)

    b. He is the Son of God in a unique way (John 5:18, 20:17)

    John Ch. 5 is a masterful setting forth of the deity of the Messiah. The following lines of truth are easily discernable in the passage and set forth the unity and equality of the Father and the Son:

    Their unity and equality in person based on relationship (5:16-18)

    Their unity and equality in action based on revelation (5:19-20)

    Their unity and equality in life-giving power (5:21)

    Their unity and equality in honour based on judgment (5:22-25)

    Their unity and equality in possession of life (5:26-29)

    John repeatedly outlines the equality of the Father and Son in stark terms:

    To honour the Son = to honour the Father (John 5:23)

    To know the Son = to know the Father (John 8:19)

    To believe the Son = to believe the Father (John 12:44)

    To see the Son = to see the Father (John 12:45, 14:9)

    To receive the Son = to receive the Father (John 13:20)

    To hate the Son = to hate the Father (John 15:23)

    To deny the Son = to deny the Father (1 John 2:23)

    4. Christ acts with all the prerogatives of deity

    A prerogative of God is a right or privilege exclusive to Himself. The following divine prerogatives are attributed to Christ in scripture, thus providing further proof of His deity:

    a. He forgives sin (Psa 85:2, Matt 9:2-8, Luke 7:47). Christ’s action in forgiving sinners was not on the same level as when a person who has been wronged says “I forgive you” to his adversary. Since all sin is against God, for Christ to step into the scene and claim to forgive the wrongs someone has committed against God is to claim equality with God.

    b. He raises Himself from the dead (John 2:19, 10:18).

    c. He has been appointed the judge of all (John 5:22, Acts 17:31)

    d. He speaks with divine authority (Matt 7:28-29). Christ did not quote other Rabbis as His authority nor does the Bible ever state, “The word of the Lord came to Jesus.” Rather what one sees is the Old Testament “Thus saith the Lord ” replaced with the New Testament words of Jesus “But I say unto you.” (Matt 5:22, 5:28, 5:32, 5:34, 5:44, 11:22, 11:24, 12:6, 12:36, 17:12, 26:29)

    5. Christ possesses the names and titles of God

    The remarkable number of parallel names between the Father and the Son is a fascinating study in itself. Here is a partial list:

    God/Jehovah Title Christ
    Exod 3:14 The ‘I am’ John 8:58
    Psa 10:16 King Matt 21:5, Rev 17:14, Psa 2:6
    Isa 44:6 First & Last Rev 1:17
    Deut 10:17 Lord of Lords Rev 17:14
    Isa 63:16 Redeemer Rev 5:9
    Psa 78:35 Rock 1 Cor 10:4
    Psa 106:21 Saviour Luke 2:11
    Psa 23:1 Shepherd John 10:14
    Deut 6:4 God Heb 1:8
    Psa 27:1 Light John 1:4, 8:12

    Seeking to circumvent this very powerful Biblical testimony to the deity of Christ some have argued that the name issue is no different than two people happening to have the same name, like two John Smiths. This argument is undone by that fact that in both Old and New Testaments the Bible is adamant that there is only one God (Deut 6:4, 1 Tim 2:5), yet this same Bible calls Jehovah God and Jesus God.

    6. Christ claims to be God

    In the Gospel of John seven people attest to the deity of Christ.

    1. John Baptist (1:34)
    2. Nathanael (1:49)
    3. Peter (6:69)
    4. Martha (11:27)
    5. Thomas (20:28)
    6. Apostle John (20:31)
    7. The Lord (5:17, 5:23, 8:58, 10:30, 10:36, 14:9)

    The seventh in the list here is the Lord Jesus Himself, which contradicts the claim of those who say that Jesus never said He was God. C.S. Lewis comments: “One attempt consists in saying that the man [Jesus] did not really say these things, but that His followers exaggerated the story, and so the legend grew up that He had said them. This is difficult because His followers were all Jews. That is, they belonged to that nation which was of all others most convinced that there was only one God – that there could not possibly be another. It is very odd that this horrible invention about a religious leader should grow up among the one people in the whole world least likely to make such a mistake. On the contrary, we get the impression that none of His immediate followers…embraced the doctrine at all easily.”

    7. Christ accepted divine worship

    Who receives and is worthy of worship is a ‘big issue’ in the Bible. The following people refused to be worshipped:

    1. Paul (Acts 14:8-15)
    2. Peter (Acts 10:25-26)
    3. An angel (Rev 22:8-9)

    Jesus Himself clearly stated that only God must be worshipped (Matt 4:10, Luke 4:8) yet repeatedly allowed men to worship him (Matt 14:33, 28:9, John 20:28-29). This is powerful evidence that Jesus claimed to be God. In another of those amazing parallels, Jehovah in the Old Testament says that every knee shall bow to Him (Isa 45:23). The New Testament then states that every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus (Phil 2:10). In Heb 1:6 the Father says of Christ “Let all the angels of God worship Him.”

    8. Direct proof texts

    The Bible categorically spells out the fact that Jesus is God again and
    again in the most uncertain terms in the following eleven proof texts:

    1. John 1:1

    “The Word was God.”

    The New World Translation of the Jehovah’s Witnesses has attempted to
    obscure this plain statement by translating it “The Word was a god”. They claim the authority to do this on the basis of the fact that the definite article ‘the’ does not appear before the word for ‘God’ in the text. Professor Donald MacLeod comments:

    “By omitting the definite article before God (theos) John is not (as Jehovah’s Witnesses and others claim) reducing his statement to the impossible level of ‘the word was a god’. He is avoiding a form of language which would have meant either ‘the word was the Father’ or ‘the Word was the godhead’. Both of these propositions would have been erroneous. John’s problem was that he had to assert the deity of the Son without prejudice to the deity of the Father and he does this, negatively by omitting the article and, positively, by going on to state, ‘The Word was with God’. The Word was not the Father. Not was the Word the only person of the godhead. The Word was God with God ” (Donald MacLeod, From Glory to Golgotha p. 140-141).

    The New World Translation gives the game away further down John chapter 1 in verse 18. Here again the definite article is missing in the Greek original but nevertheless the NWT still says “No one has seen God at any time.” Clearly their tampering with verse 1 was not due to any consideration of Greek scholarship but rather to the bias of a deity denying cult.

    2. Isaiah 7:14, Matt 1:23

    “Emmanuel…God with us.”

    At His birth the lovely name Emmanuel was pronounced over Christ. It means ‘God with us’. Literally in Greek Matt 1:23 says “The God with us.” The definite article is present in reference to Christ as God, which is the
    final nail in the coffin of the Watchtower’s faulty argument concerning the missing definite article in John 1:1. The same is true of the famous statement of Thomas in John 20:28, which translated literally reads, “The Lord of me and the God of me”, the definite article being present twice in his confession.

    3. Isaiah 9:6

    “For unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” Note the unambiguous reference to Christ as ‘the mighty God’.4. John 5:18

    “Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had
    broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.”

    See the comments above under ‘His Sonship’.
    5. John 8:58

    “Before Abraham was: I am.”

    This is more than a claim to pre-existence, where the imperfect tense would have sufficed. This is a claim to eternal existence and self-existence. The use by the Lord Jesus of the divine title the ‘I am’ (Exod 3:14) is a high
    claim to deity.

    6. John 10:30

    “I and My Father are one.”

    The word ‘one’ here is in the neuter gender. It refers to a unity of essence
    between the Father and the Son that is spiritual, intimate and unbreakable. Attempts to interpret it to mean ‘one in purpose’ are misguided, as an examination of the violent reaction of the Jews in passage shows. John 17:11 and 21 states that there’s a similarity between Christians’ union with each other in the body of Christ and the unity of the godhead, but not a total sameness. The sameness of nature and essence of the Father and the Son is expressed in the use of the following words in the Bible:

    Reference Greek Translation Meaning

    a. John 1 logos The Word of God Christ the personal manifestation of deity

    b. Colossians 1 eikon The Image of God Christ in essence the perfect expression/representation of God

    c. Colossians 2 theotes Godhead Christ possesses the essence and nature of God

    d. Philippians 1 morphe The form of God Christ bears the character of God exactly

    e. Hebrews 1 charakter The express image Christ the impress of God’s substance and essence bearing exact similarity in every way.

    7. John 14:9

    “He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?”

    In that Christ is the Word of God, the image of God, exists in the form of God and is the express image of His person, He can rightfully say “To see Me is to see the Father.”

    8. Colossians 2:9

    “For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.”

    Late in the first century AD false teachers called Docetists taught that while Jesus appeared human, He was really only divine (Docetism is from the Greek verb dokeo, to seem). They taught that the ‘divine Christ’ descended on Jesus at His baptism and left before the cross. This later developed into full-blown Gnosticism which flourished in Egypt in the second and third centuries. This is the background of the so-called ‘Gospels’ of Thomas, Mary, Philip and Judas, documents written by those who denied that Jesus was God manifest in the flesh. These Gnostics spoke much about ‘fullness’ and held a belief in a plethora of emanations or divine beings on an ascending scale. Where did Christ fit into this scheme? He was displaced from His true status as the Word who became flesh. Paul points out that all the fullness that the Gnostics believed existed across all the many divine emanations actually dwelt bodily in Christ! Furthermore the New Testament teaches that “all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge” dwell in Christ (Col 2:3). He is also spoken of as being “full of grace and truth” (John 1:14).

    So, the totality of the power and attributes of deity – the fullness – dwells in Christ bodily. Two words are of particular interest in Colossians 2:9. Firstly, the word ‘dwelleth’ (Gk. Katoikeo) means to reside permanently. This undoes the error of the Docetists. Secondly, the word Godhead (Gk. Theotes) refers to the essence and nature of God. It is not to be confused with the similar word translated Godhead (in the KJV) in Romans 1:20 (Gk. Theiotes). This refers to the divine perfections and attributes of Divinity.

    9. 1 Timothy 3:16

    “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was
    manifest in the flesh.”

    The confession of the city of Ephesus where Timothy lived was, “Great is Diana of the Ephesians” (Acts 19:28). Paul here states that the Church’s confession is that “Wonderful is revelation of the godly Christian life…God was manifest in the flesh.” Though there is some controversy as to the retention or omission of the word ‘God’ in this passage, the weight of evidence is clearly on the side of the manuscripts that read ‘theos’.

    10. Hebrews 1:8

    “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever.”

    This mighty testimony to the deity of Christ reveals the Father calling the Son ‘God’.11. 2 Peter 1:1 (NKJV)

    “The righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ.”

    The Greek grammar used in this verse demands that one person be meant, not two. It clearly states that Jesus is God.

    Problem verses

    In light of the eleven clear verses above, one might legitimately wonder how the Unitarians and the cults manage to deny the Deity of Christ. They lean on a group of texts which they either take out of context, or misinterpret, or both. Here are the eight most frequently used texts, together with a Biblical rebuttal to their misuse.

    1. Mark 13:32

    “But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.”

    Here it is argued that Christ was not omniscient and therefore must have surrendered his Deity, at least to some degree, when coming to earth. The following verses refute that idea: Matt 12:25, chs. 24-25, Luke 6:8, 9:17, John 1:47-51, 2:24-5, 4:17-18, 6:61, 64, 13:1, 11, 16:30, 18:4, 21:17, Col 2:3. So what does this verse mean? The Lord spoke of certain things that He had left in His Father’s hands such as who would sit on His left and right hand in the kingdom (Matt 20:23), and the subjugation of all His enemies (Mark 12:36). So, in coming to earth the Bible reveals that Christ temporarily and voluntarily left certain things in His Father’s hands.

    Now, with reference to Christ’s knowledge, it is important to remember that omniscience means not simply knowing everything, but the ability to know everything. We know that Deity can choose not to remember (Heb 10:17). Jesus is not saying in Mark 13:32 that he cannot know the day and the hour of His return but that He chose not to know it while He was on earth. He had ability to know, but He temporarily and voluntarily chose to leave that date in the Father’s hands.

    2. Mark 10:18

    “Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.”

    The claim here is that Jesus is saying, “I am not God so you should not be calling me good.” Again, this is to take an isolated text and attempt to overthrow the testimony of the rest of scripture. One of the basic rules of hermeneutics is that difficult verses must always be explained by simple ones, never the other way round. The explanation is quite simple. The Lord was taking up the young man on the ground on which He was approached Him. The man did not accept the Deity of Christ. He came to Jesus as one good man to another. That being the case, the Lord was simply saying, “You do not recognise Me as God, so why do you call Me good. No one is truly good but God – and you don’t think I am God.”

    3. Matt 12:31

    “Whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.”

    This text seems to imply that it is more serious to blaspheme the Holy Spirit than Jesus. That implied inequality would therefore undermine the Deity of Christ. What’s the answer? In looking at Jesus of Nazareth and hearing His teachings, it would have been relatively easy for someone to completely miss the fact that this Man was God incarnate and thus speak against Him in true ignorance. Though inexcusable, this ignorant speaking against Christ was forgivable. However, a look at the context of Matthew 12 reveals that the Lord’s statement follows on the heels of a display of multiple notable manifestations of the miraculous healing power of the Spirit of God through the ministry of Christ. Faced with this undeniable evidence of God at work in their midst, the Jewish leaders attributed the miracles to the power of Satan. This was not a charge made from ignorance. It was a deliberate rejection of the power of the Spirit of God in the ministry of Christ. Such a rejection represented the committal of the unpardonable sin. Understood properly, this verse has nothing to say about the Deity of Christ.

    4. John 14:28

    “My Father is greater than I.”

    Perhaps this is the favourite Deity-denying verse of the Mormons and the Jehovah’s Witnesses. However, the Lord Jesus is but expressing the fact that in coming to earth and taking on manhood He accepted a position and status in relation to the Father that made the Father ‘greater’. The greatness refers not to Christ’s essential nature, but to His position administratively as a result of voluntarily becoming man. The Prime Minister or President of a country is ‘greater’ that an ordinary citizen, but not ‘better’. Thus Christ declares His Father to be greater than Himself, but not better.

    5. 1 Cor 11:3.
    “The head of Christ is God.”

    This statement does not imply inequality between Christ and God, any more than the same verse implies inequality between men and women. The verse is stating that in becoming man, the Christ submitted Himself to the Father administratively, but not essentially. His was a voluntary subordination in His role as man, Messiah and Mediator, while all the time He remained (and remains) equal with the Father.

    6. Luke 22:42

    “Not My will but Thine be done.”

    This verse seems imply that the Son’s will was different to the Father’s, leading some to use it to deny Christ’s Deity. It will help to understand this statement of Christ if we remember that there was no independence in the life of the Lord Jesus. In Jesus Christ, Satan knew he faced a man who walked in total submission to and dependence on His Father. At the core of Satan’s attempt to make Jesus turn stones into bread was not so much a challenge aimed at Christ’s ability, but rather a challenge aimed at making Christ act independently of His Father. In effect Satan was saying, “If You are the Son of God, what are you doing depending each day on the word of Your Father? Take the initiative and do Your own thing.” However, the Lord stated in John 5:19-20 that He never acted as a rival of the Father (as the Jews supposed). He repeatedly emphasised the fact that He had no separate interest to His Father’s but rather subjected His will to that of the Father from the moment of His incarnation. Note the three verses below:

    “Wherefore when He cometh into the world, He saith…I come…to do Thy will, O God.” Heb 10:5-7

    “I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.” John 5:30

    “For I came down from heaven, not to do Mine own will, but the will of Him that sent Me.” John 6:38In other words, what the Lord said in Gethsemane was nothing new. It was a very intense and real reiteration of the guiding principle of His life on earth which highlighted of His servanthood in bowing to the sin-bearing horror of the cross. It was not a conflict of wills. When Christ asked, “If it be possible let this cup pass from Me”, He knew only too well as the Lamb foreordained before the foundation of the world that the cross was unavoidable. Note what He says to Peter a few minutes after the agony in the garden, “Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?” (John 18:11). Remember also that in the upper room Christ had said, “Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.” John 12:277.

    1 Cor 15:28

    “And when all things shall be subdued unto Him [Christ], then shall the Son also himself be subject unto Him [the Father] that put all things under Him [the Christ], that God may be all in all.”

    Does the fact that this verse speaks of Christ being subject to the Father imply He is less than God? No. The context is the end of the millennial reign of Christ. As that 1,000 year period terminates, the mediatorial character of the kingdom will come to an end. During world history, as long as there has been any element of opposition to the supremacy of God, anything requiring subjugation, Christ has exercised governmental authority on the Father’s behalf. However, as the eternal state dawns it will no longer be a case of the Son carrying out the subjugation of all things to the Father – all will be merged in the infinite and absolute supremacy of God, the triune God, who will be everything in everything. “That is to say, not the Son carrying out a special work for the Father as previously, but God – Father Son and Holy Spirit – acting as such in all things everywhere.” W.E. Vine.

    8. Phil 2:6-8

    “Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.”

    It has been taught from this verse that Christ gave up His deity either partially or wholly when He became man. At least a couple of Bible translations convey this faulty idea:

    Good News Bible: “He always has the nature of God, but he did not think that by force he should try to remain equal with God. Instead of this, of his own free will, he gave up all he had, and took the nature of a servant.”

    Contemporary English Version: “Christ was truly God, but he did not try to remain equal with God. Instead he gave up everything and became a slave, when he became like one of us.”

    When this verse is understood properly, word by word, it will be clearly seen that in the incarnation Christ surrendered nothing of His true and complete deity.

    First we meet the word “being” (Greek, huparcho). The way this word is used in the New Testament expresses previous existence and continuing existence. For example:

    David being a prophet (Acts 2:30)

    Man being the image and glory of God (1 Cor 11:7)

    If thou being a Jew (Gal 2:14)

    Joseph of Arimathaea being a councillor (Luke 23:50)

    So, when Paul speaks of Christ “being in the form of God”, he means to say that Christ always existed in the form of God and continued to exist in that form when He became man. At the incarnation Christ became something He had never been before (man), while never ceasing to be what He always was (God).

    Then Paul uses the expression “in the form [Gk. morphe] of God”. In English the word ‘form’ has multiple meanings, from a piece of paper, to a bench, to a mood. One particular English use reflects the Greek word quite well. The character and nature of a person can be implied in the word ‘form’ as in the sentence, “The Doctor came early, true to form.” This is its sense in Phil 2:6. Christ has always and continues ever to exist in the form, the essence and nature of deity.

    The verse continues, “Thought is not robbery [Gk. harpagmos] to be equal with God.” Robbery here is the noun of the Greek word harpagmos, to seize or take away. There is no thought whatsoever in this verse of the Christ relinquishing any part of His essential eternal deity. Some translate this verse ‘thought it not something to be grasped’ (taking harpagmos in a passive sense). However, Greek scholar Gordon Fee suggests that harpagmos (robbery) is not to be thought of as a thing at all. He points out that nouns ending in -mos do not ordinarily refer to a concrete expression of the verbal idea in the noun, but to the verbal idea itself. Rather, says Fee, harpagmos is an abstract noun that emphasizes the concept of ‘grasping’ or ‘seizing’ (and should be taken here in an active sense). That being the case there are at least three possibilities as to the meaning of Phil 2:5:

    1. Christ did not view His equality with God as an act of seizing or robbery because He already was and always had been equal with God.

    2. Christ did not view His equality with God selfishly in a grasping way, but poured Himself out for us.

    3. Christ did not seize upon the fact that He was equal with God (to avoid suffering and death). Harpagmos (robbery) has a cognate, harpage, which means ‘booty’ or ‘prey’. In this passage the Greek idiom can be taken in the sense of ‘a matter to be seized upon’ i.e. ‘taken advantage of’.

    To paraphrase Philippians 2 with the Greek background of option 3. in mind: “Who though He was in the form of God He did not think this divine quality should be used for His own advantage, as giving Him a reason to avoid suffering and death.” Fee translates it in the New International Commentary on the New Testament, “Being in the form of God as He was, Christ did not consider it a matter of seizing upon to His own advantage, this being equal with God we have just noted, but He emptied Himself.” This is in keeping with the context of the whole epistle of Philippians where Paul repeatedly emphasises the need in Christian living to waive one’s personal rights and think of others (2:4 & 21), as exemplified in the lives of Timothy and Epaphroditus (2:19-30).

    This view of ‘robbery’ helps in considering the next expression – “made Himself of no reputation” or ’emptied Himself’. Just as harpagmos (robbery) needs no object for Christ to seize so Christ did not empty himself of anything – He simply emptied Himself or poured Himself out by taking on the form of a slave. It is important to note the way the word empty (keno) is used in the New Testament in its four other occurrences:

    “For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect.” Rom 4:14

    “For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.” 1 Cor 1:17

    “It were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.” 1 Cor 9:15

    “Yet have I sent the brethren, lest our boasting of you should be in vain in this behalf.” 2 Cor 9:3

    As can be readily seen from these verses the word kenoo ‘to make empty’ is used figuratively in the sense of ‘to make void, neutralize or abase’. It is therefore a fitting word as used by Paul to describe the self-abasement of Christ.

    This densely packed passage continues with the words “Took the form of a servant.” When Paul uses the word ‘morphe’ (form) again, he does not mean to imply that Christ exchanged the ‘form of God’ for the ‘form of a servant’ at the incarnation. Rather He chose to express the form of God in the form of servant.

    “Made in likeness of men”. The word ‘likeness’ (Gk. homoioma) means resemblance. Christ in every way, sin apart, resembled man, because He was man, yet nothing of this likeness to man in any way compromised His deity.

    Finally Paul says Christ was “found in fashion as a man”. The Greek word for fashion here is ‘schema’. It refers to what is visible and perceptible (See 1 Cor 7:31, ‘the fashion of the world’). Thus while for form (morphe) remains the same, the ‘schema’ changed at the incarnation. Christ will eternally exist in fashion as a man.

    So, Nnaki/Raelian, Ya not even playing marble cricket with your FEBLE, child-like ‘yorkers’ you are playing like the ANT* you ARE* still trapped IN* the Elephants Epidermis of its FOOT!

    Like

  • millertheanunnaki

    @ Zoe | November 28, 2011 at 2:19 PM |
    So you are calling your friend Jesus a pathological schizophrenic liar who even on his dying cross was so mentally deranged with a split personality as to shout:

    “… Jesus cried out in a loud voice, ‘Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?’ which is translated, ‘My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?” (Mark 15:34; Matthew 27:46).

    Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they don’t know what they are doing.” And the soldiers gambled for his clothes by throwing dice. Luke 23:34

    This is not a yorker this time but a back drive passed you for 4 runs!

    Like

  • Why did Jesus cry out, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?”
    In Matthew 27:45-46, it says, “Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour. 46And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?” If Jesus is God, why would He say this?

    First of all, Jesus quoted Psalm 22:1 which begins with, “My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?”. Jesus quoted this Psalm in order to draw attention to it and the fact that He was fulfilling it there on the cross. Consider verses 11-18 in Psalm 22:

    Be not far from me, for trouble is near; For there is none to help.12 Many bulls have surrounded me; Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled me. 13 They open wide their mouth at me, As a ravening and a roaring lion. 14 I am poured out like water, And all my bones are out of joint; My heart is like wax; It is melted within me. 15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd, And my tongue cleaves to my jaws; And Thou dost lay me in the dust of death. 16 For dogs have surrounded me; A band of evildoers has encompassed me; They pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I can count all my bones. They look, they stare at me; 18 They divide my garments among them, And for my clothing they cast lots.

    The term ‘dogs’ was used by the Jews to refer to Gentiles (cf. Matt. 15:21-28). His heart has melted within Him (v. 14). During the crucifixion process, the blood loss causes the heart to beat harder and harder and become extremely fatigued. Dehydration occurs (v. 15). Verses 16b-18 speak of piercing His hands and feet and dividing his clothing by casting lots. This is exactly what happen as described in Matt. 27:35.

    Psalm 22 was written about 600 years before Christ was born. At that time, crucifixion had not yet been invented. Actually, the Phoenicians developed it and Rome borrowed the agonizing means of execution from them. So, when Rome ruled over Israel, it became the Roman means of capital punishment imposed upon the Jews whose biblical means of execution was stoning. Nevertheless, Jesus is pointing to the scriptures to substantiate His messianic mission.

    A further comment
    2 Cor. 5:21 says, “He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” It is possible that at some moment on the cross, when Jesus became sin on our behalf, that God the Father, in a sense, turned His back upon the Son. It says in Hab. 1:13 that God is too pure to look upon evil. Therefore, it is possible that when Jesus bore our sins in His body on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24), that the Father, spiritually, turned away. At that time, the Son may have cried out.

    One thing is for sure. We have no capacity to appreciate the utterly horrific experience of having the sins of the world put upon the Lord Jesus as He hung, in excruciating pain, from that cross. The physical pain was immense. The spiritual one must have been even greater.

    That shows us clearly how much God LOVES US!

    Jesus Christ was/IS, fully God, and SINLESS man, humanity, its called the hypostatic union of God/Man. He spoke as God, and He also spoke in His humanity, as fully human being, while many mysteries are not revealed to us this Cry of Jesus from the Cross, was probably from His humanity, as He bore the SINS of ALL mankind.

    Nnaki/Raelian, You would NEVER understand, such is the state of ‘spiritual’ DARKNESS in which your ANT* like mind dwells, lost in the abyss of Raelian folly!

    Like

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