Where Is He Born King Of The Jews? The Dragon Was Wroth With The Woman And Made War With Her Seed”: – How The Message of Christmas Past Was Hatched In Infanticide, State-Sponsored Murder & Religious Tyranny
“And there appeared in Heaven a great wonder; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of [12] stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having [7] heads and [10] horns, and [7] crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew a third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to His throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and three score days.” – (Revelation 12:1-6KJV)
No book ever written holds such beautiful allegorical and symbolic language, meaning and truth as does THE BIBLE! Type meets antitype; prophets validate Apostles; line is given over to precept; seals are followed by trumpets; vials portend approaching destruction and what was in the Beginning emerges in the End.
The sole purpose of The Bible is to reveal the person of Jesus The Christ. He was in the Beginning and He is definitely going to be there at the End. We can disagree over the how, why, when, where and all the other age-old questions – one thing is SURE*, Jesus is either who He is or we can disregard Him at our own peril.
It is accepted consensus that any discourse on the birth of Jesus can run folks into a meaningless argumentative quest which is often drenched in the dew of historical debate, conjecture and polarization. What has been established is that He was born, lived for [33] and a half years, died, rose again and is carrying on His priestly work in Heaven on behalf of mankind.
However, the tragedy of the birth of Jesus according the prophecy cited at the beginning remains frothed with reminders that few take time to examine. Sadly, space does not allow us to exegete those symbols of the prophecy – but will see how a different slant on the idea of Christmas (the time celebrated as the birth of Jesus) is mired false ideology, misinformation and religious idolatry.
For one, they were few at the genesis of Jesus’ birth who had been diligently looking for His arrival based on the prophecies of Moses and Isaiah or that actually knew that He had entered the world. The story tells us of lowly shepherds who had heard (from a chorus of angels) while watching their flocks by night. What is equally remarkable is that [3] pagan Persian star-gazers (magi from the East – wise men) who were students of the writing of the prophets (made known through Daniel the PM of Babylon) were able with almost pin-point accuracy to determine the time and place of this Great King’s birth, the One who was to be the Deliverer of all mankind.
But the story (though beautiful in its symmetry) holds a sinister historical dialectic which is difficult to ignore as people get caught up in the mad scramble to buy trees, presents, food & beverage.
As was cited in the Scripture from Revelation 12 – the dragon wanted to devour this Child right at its inception. As John the revelator is looking back through the prophetic historical lens of time – though incarcerated on the Isle of Patmos [40] odds years in the future after the ascension of Christ to heaven is given this prophecy which holds powerful truths which even the religious world glosses over due in part to ignorance or sheer wilful blind-sidedness.
When Jesus was born in Bethlehem in the province of Judah, King Herod’s seat of power was suddenly threatened as these wise men came in search of this new monarch, asking – “Where is He born King of the Jews?” This infuriated Herod. History paints a malversational picture of this beast of a man – paranoid and plagued by possible insurrection from within his own household. Herod’s rule reveals a catalogue of state-sponsored and personal terror attacks inflicted on countless members of his own immediate and extended family. Herod had his favourite wife, Mariamne, publicly murdered, as well as her mother, Alexandra. He murdered Hyrcanus, Mariamne’s grandfather who was responsible for saving his life and he eventually had his own sons, (Alexander, Aristobulus, and Antipater) executed to clear the way for complete self-rule. This was the result of the monarchical oligopoly of state power in hands of the elite. The divine rights of kings!
The news of Jesus’ birth resulted in a state decree for all babies up to 2 years to be murdered in a systematic campaign of extermination against Herodian rule. What is mind-boggling according to historical sources is that possibly 2,000 to 14,000 babies were viciously murdered and nothing was done about it. Clearly, nothing is new under the sun given that in our day, infanticide is given legitimacy through the rule of law which says that a woman’s right to abortion is a fundamental human right and must be protected. So every year around the world, 46 million babies are slaughtered based on state decree and laws. Even baby Jesus was not exempt from the tyranny of political assassination policy.
Herod in a blind, narcissistic fury saw these powerful wise men bearing gifts fit only for a king. These men were bearing gifts which had spiritual symbolism to the life of the Redeemer King. It was not a birthday celebration as some would have us believe. Origen, an early Catholic writer, admitted that “In the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod) who make great rejoicings over the day in which they were born into this world” – hence the origins of Christmas are masked in folklore, myths, superstition, mysticism and pagan ideology.
Celebrating Christmas is so far removed from true Christianity that many refuse to admit or even choose to break with this pagan tradition. On the religious right are those who argue that we have taken Christ out of X’mas. The question is: “Was He ever in it?” On the left of the debate, are those who believe in the secularization of the holiday season and see it as a time for feasting, revelry and merriment with some hoping to outlaw any religious connotations. Whatever our position is – one thing is clear, to practice a tradition without having true knowledge of it is no different to sheep being willingly led to slaughter.
Some of us accept that the epistemological roots of Christmas is to be found in Roman Catholic theology and by 529 A.D., after Constantine had made Christianity the official state religion of the Roman Empire – his successor Emperor Justinian subsequently made Christmas a civic holiday. The celebration of Christmas reached its peak – some would argue its worst moments – in the medieval period when it became “a time for conspicuous consumption and unequalled revelry.”
In the Roman Catholic Encyclopedia, 1911 edition, under the heading of “Christmas” says that: “Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church…the first evidence of the feast is from Egypt… Pagan customs centering around the January calends gravitated to Christmas.”
The prophet Jeremiah warns in chapter 10 – that “Idolatry Brings Destruction”. The prophet warns – “Do not act like the other nations, who try to read their future in the stars. Do not be afraid of their predictions, even though other nations are terrified by them. Their ways are futile and foolish. They cut down a tree, and a craftsman carves an idol. They decorate it with gold and silver and then fasten it securely with hammer and nails so it won’t fall over. Their gods are like helpless scarecrows in a cucumber field! They cannot speak, and they need to be carried because they cannot walk. Do not be afraid of such gods, for they can neither harm you nor do you any good.” LORD, there is no one like you! For you are great, and your name is full of power. Who would not fear you, O King of nations? That title belongs to you alone! Among all the wise people of the earth and in all the kingdoms of the world, there is no one like you. People who worship idols are stupid and foolish. The things they worship are made of wood! They bring beaten sheets of silver from Tarshish and gold from Uphaz, and they give these materials to skilful craftsmen who make their idols. Then they dress these gods in royal blue and purple robes made by expert tailors. But the LORD is the only true God. He is the living God and the everlasting King! The whole earth trembles at his anger. The nations cannot stand up to his wrath. Say this to those who worship other gods: “Your so-called gods, who did not make the heavens and earth, will vanish from the earth and from under the heavens.”* But God made the earth by his power, and he preserves it by his wisdom. With his own understanding he stretched out the heavens. When he speaks in the thunder, the heavens roar with rain. He causes the clouds to rise over the earth. He sends the lightning with the rain and releases the wind from his storehouses. The whole human race is foolish and has no knowledge! The craftsmen are disgraced by the idols they make, for their carefully shaped works are a fraud. These idols have no breath or power. Idols are worthless; they are ridiculous lies! On the day of reckoning they will all be destroyed.” (1 – 15 NLT)
In conclusion, for those looking for a message in Christmas – “there’s NONE!” On the day of reckoning, none of these emblems will have any meaning. What is at stake is NOT* whether Jesus was born and is worthy of a birthday celebration (for He never celebrated anything but the Father’s Love). What is crucial is how Jesus lived! The price He had to pay for being anti-RELIGIOUS, anti-POLITIQUE, anti-ESTABLISHMENT but above all, anti-EVIL. That price was paid in His ignominious betrayal, condemnation and eventual murder at the hands of His own kindred sanctioned by the laws and decrees of the state government. Thankfully, what transcends all those vivid, lurid, dastardly experiences was and is the power of His Resurrection. This can be the only focus – and it’s high time for us to awake out of sleep!
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Georgie Porgie
So what?
Having posted all this drivel, do you think that Bajans and the contemporary world will not celebrate Christmas as they did last year and in recent times.
And how does your dreary drivel add to, or form a part of your outlandish, nonsensical, incoherent title Where Is He Born King Of The Jews? The Dragon Was Wroth With The Woman And Made War With Her Seed”: – How The Message of Christmas Past Was Hatched In Infanticide, State-Sponsored Murder & Religious Tyranny?
What is clear to all is that you can google and find and copy and paste goo you find on the internet, but you are definitely not a scholar, as there is no STRUCTURE SEQUENCE OR SERIOUS SUBSTANCE in the garbage you write. In addition you can not defend the large faecoliths you hurl.
Your daddy is probably pleased with your work, but I will always take time out to mock and debunk your junk!
The position of the Scottish Church was reaffirmed in 1566. Theodore Beza wrote to Knox, requesting Scottish approval for the Second Helvetic Confession (1566). The General Assembly in Scotland replied with a letter of general approval. Nevertheless, the Assembly could scarcely refrain from mentioning, with regard to what is written in the 24th chapter of the aforesaid Confession concerning the “festival of our Lord’s nativity, … passion, resurrection, ascension, …that these festivals at the present time obtain no place among us; for we dare not religiously celebrate any other feast-day than what the divine oracles prescribed.”- In Knox, Works, Vol. vi, pp. 547-48. The same position is expressed in the Second Scotch Confession (1580), which rejects the “dedicating of kirks, altars, days.”
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de hood
@ TMB
And so………………………? Just what is your point anyway, Sir? Why do you denigrate the observance of the birth of the Holy One of Israel? What should it matter to you whether we observe the event now or at 15 other times during the year?
Please note this quote from:-
KJV, Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
“The Calvinists declared that observing Christ’s birthday was a human invention….They asserted that Christ would not have approved of it, for it merely furnished excuse for wrong doing…Town criers went around and cried out so loudly so that all might hear, ‘No Christmas! no Christmas!’” ~(Mayme R. Krythe, All About Christmas)
How difficult it is to pull forth of the hearts of the people the thing(The Mass of Christ) wherein [their] opinion of holiness stands, declares the great tumult and uproar moved against Paul by Demetrius and his fellows, who, by idolatry, got great advantage, as our priests have done by the Mass in time past. The people, I say, hearing that the honour of their great goddess Diana stood in jeopardy, with furious voices cried, “Great is Diana of the Ephesians” (Acts 19:23-41). As [if] they would say, “We will not have the magnificence of our great goddess Diana (whom not only Asia but the whole world worships) called into doubt, come into question or controversy. Away with all men intending that impiety.” And hereunto they were moved by long custom and false opinion. ~A Vindication of the Doctrine that the Sacrifice of the Mass is Idolatry, 1550,-John Knox- Extracted from: Selected Writings of John Knox: Public Epistles, Treatises, and Expositions to the Year 1559
The Mass of ‘Christ’ Is Plainly Idolatry : Christmas gets its name from the Latin Christes Masse, or the Mass of Christ. (The French call Christmas Noel, the Scaninavians Yulen Jul, the Italians Natale, and the Germans Weihnacht. ) By celebrating the “Mass” of Christ, one is openly supporting the authority of the Roman Catholic Church, and its pagan Mass…
The Mass is Idolatry. All worshiping, honoring, or service invented by the brain of man in the religion of God, without his own express commandment, is idolatry. The Mass is invented by the brain of man, without any commandment of God; therefore it is idolatry. ~A Vindication of the Doctrine that the Sacrifice of the Mass is Idolatry, 1550,-John Knox-Extracted from: Selected Writings of John Knox: Public Epistles, Treatises, and Expositions to the Year 1559
“The mass is the “UNBLOODY” renewal of the sacrifice of Christ on Calvary’s cross…Christ, through the ministry of the Roman Catholic priest, offers Himself to God in an unbloody manner under the appearances of bread and wine. The mass is the same sacrifice as the sacrifice of the cross because the Victim is the same. The purpose of the mass is, among other things, to satisfy the justice of God for the sins committed against Him.” -Catholic Priest, John A. O’Brien, UNDERSTANDING THE CATHOLIC FAITH, Ave Maria Press, Nortre Dame, Ind, 1955, p. 212
No Nativity, Birthdays or Christmas for Early Christians or Catholics Either…
According to the December 23,1996 issue of US News & World Report, “the earliest Christians simply weren’t interested in celebrating the Nativity…”. The same magazine continues, “..They ‘viewed birthday celebrations as heathen’. The third-century church father Origen [a catholic] had declared it a sin to even think of keeping Christ’s birthday ‘as though he were a king pharaoh’.”
Let us quote the Catholic Encyclopedia published in 1913AD “..Origen, glancing perhaps at the discreditable imperial Natalitia, asserts (in Lev. Hom. viii in Migne, P.G., XII, 495) that in the Scriptures sinners alone, not saints, celebrate their birthday; Arnobius (VII, 32 in P.L., V, 1264) can still ridicule the “birthdays” of the gods.”
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Georgie Porgie
By the way I DONT CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS
MY CHURCH GROUP HOLDS NO SERVICES OR MEETINGS ON CHRISTMAS DAY. sO i AM NOT MAKING A PITCH FOR CHRISTMAS.
BUT UNDER GRACE PEOPLE ARE FREE
TO WORSHIP ON CHRISTMAS DAY IS NOT SIN
TO CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS IS NOT SIN
The meetings during the season IN MY CHURCH GROUP follow the same pattern as throughout the year. On Sunday next it is quite possible that no Christmas songs at all will be sung. We will just, as usual muse upon the PERSON OF THE LORD JESUS. AND ON HIS WORDS AND WORK AND WITNESS
lAST SUNDAY FOR EXAMPLE ONE OUTLINE DISCUSSED USING JOHN 1:1-4 WAS AS FOLLOWS
THE SUPREMACY OF HIS PERSON
THE SUPREMACY OF HIS POWER
THE SUPREMACY OF HIS PURPOSE
THE SUPREMACY OF HIS PRESENCE
THE SUPREMACY OF HIS PROVISION
Not a word was said about Christmas- CHRIST WAS JUST EXALTED AND LIFTED UP AS THE WORD OF GOD COMMANDS
NEVER ONCE
NOT ONCE FOR THIS WHOLE YEAR HAS THIS DIABOLICAL DUNCE UPLIFTED THE SAVIOR IN HIS NEGATIVE JUNK . NOT ONCE!
“Our annual Christian festival (Christmas) is nothing but a continuation under a different name of this old solar festivity (Saturnalia).”~(The New Golden Bough- Fraser and Foster, page 653).
“The observance of December 25 (as a Christian festival) only dates from the fourth century and is due to assimilation with the Mithraic festival of the birth of the sun” ~(World Popular Encyclopedia, Volume 3).
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Georgie Porgie
@ DE HOOD
you will never get him to go to Collosians NEVER!
If You Can’t Beat ‘Em The ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH says Join ‘Em…
The transition from festivals commemorating the birth of a sun god to a celebration ostensibly for the Son of God occurred sometime in the fourth century. Unable to eradicate the heathen celebration of Saturnalia, the Church of Rome, sometime before 336 A.D., designated a Feast of the Nativity to be observed.- James Taylor, “Christmas,” in The New International Dictionary of the Christian Church (J. D. Douglas, ed.; Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1974), p. 223.
A Scottish minister (1575-1651), David Calderwood, in his critique of the Perth Assembly, asserts that only God has the prerogative “to appoint a day of rest and to sanctify it to his honor.” Under the law of God, no one presumed to appoint holy days “but God, and that either by Himself, or by some extraordinary direction. “~[22] Perth Assembly, pp. 66, 69.
Calderwood continues, “Nay, let us utter the truth, December-Christmas is a just imitation of the December-Saturnal of the ethnic [heathen] Romans, and so used as if Bacchus, and not Christ, were the God of Christians.”- Perth Assembly, pp. 79-81.
George Gillespie (1613-49) rests his case on the SECOND* commandment. “The second commandment is moral and perpetual, and forbids to us as well as to them the additions and inventions of men in the worship of God.” Therefore, “sacred significant ceremonies devised by man are to be reckoned among those images forbidden in the second commandment.”- Gillespie, Part 2, pp. 118, 84; cf. 86.
Some Sects Held Fast The Truth even in the Modern Day
Even with the avalanche of liberalism and evangelical ecumenicity, Christmas has not gone unchallenged in twentieth century Presbyterianism. In 1962, the Synod of the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland issued a “Statement of Differences Between the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland and the Other Presbyterian Churches.” One point of difference concerns the observance of holidays, which are tolerated in the theologically liberal Church of Scotland. The Free Presbyterian Church rejects the modern custom becoming so prevalent in the Church of Scotland, of observing Christmas and Easter. It regards the observance of these days as symptomatic of the trend in the Church of Scotland towards closer relations with Episcopacy. At the time of the Reformation in Scotland all these festivals were cast out of the Church as things that were not only unnecessary but unscriptural.- History of the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland (1893-1970) (Compiled by a Committee Appointed by the Synod of the Free Presbyterian Church; Inverness: Publications Committee, Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland, n.d.), p. 383.
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Georgie Porgie
Note the ploy of a diabolical false teacher!
Note how this thread starts! It sounds good right? Sounds as though an upliftment of the Lord is to follow, something profitanble something true, then read from paragraph #3—- BARE BOVINE EXCREMENT!
“No book ever written holds such beautiful allegorical and symbolic language, meaning and truth as does THE BIBLE! Type meets antitype; prophets validate Apostles; line is given over to precept; seals are followed by trumpets; vials portend approaching destruction and what was in the Beginning emerges in the End.
The sole purpose of The Bible is to reveal the person of Jesus The Christ. He was in the Beginning and He is definitely going to be there at the End. We can disagree over the how, why, when, where and all the other age-old questions – one thing is SURE*, Jesus is either who He is or we can disregard Him at our own peril.”
BTW note that prophets DON’T validate Apostles. Instead the apostles and Christ validated and explained the prophetic writings. Types don’t meet antitypes. Rather Antitypes reveal the truths that the presentation of the types prefigured.
THE OT IS IN THE NT REVEALED
THE NT IS I THE OLD CONCEALED
CANT REALLY UNDERSTAND ONE WITH OUT THE OTHER.
If a person TRULY believes that “The sole purpose of The Bible is to reveal the person of Jesus The Christ”, then in their writings, that purpose would present THE TRUTHS ABOUT JESUS as I have done consistently and continuously in my posts.
A person that understands the BIBLE DWELLS ON THE ESSENTIALS concerning the WORK & WORDS OF CHRIST, not on his denominational dogma!
If a person TRULY believes that “The sole purpose of The Bible is to reveal the person of Jesus The Christ”, then in their writings, that persom would STRESS THE CHRIST OF CHRISTMAS.
Call it what you like, there was a time when Christ was born. TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT TIME IS TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE OT PROPHECIES ABOUT HIS FIRST COMING AS WELL AS TO LOOK FOWARD TO THE FULFILLMENT OF HIS SECOND COMING
NOTE THAT IN SEVERAL OT PREDICTIONS OF HIS FIRST COMING THAT A PROMISE OF HIS HIS SECOND COMING IS CLOSELY ATTACHED
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Georgie Porgie
ONLY GOD>>>>>>>>APPOINTS DAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How true!
Now note Colossians 2:16-17
16. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17. Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
SEEMS TO ME THAT GOD DEBUNKED THE SDA DOGMA LONG BEFORE IT CAME ABOUT! Ah lie?
CONTINUE TO READ
18. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19. And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
FRIENDS WE ARE COMMANDED TO UPHOLD THE HEAD!
THE FOLLOWING VERSES ARE SELF EXPLANATORY
20. Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21. (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22. Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
TRUE BELIEVERS ARE SAID TO BE DEAD WITH CHIST IN ROMANS 5 & 6 and RISEN WITH HIM in Colossians 1
So if you are dead in Christ YOU ARE NOT TO BE SUBJECT TO ORDINANCES AND RULES SET UP BY MEN OR THE SDA?
I was gonna say it’s that time of the year when preachers start preaching revelations / their biblical interpretations.. but it’s always armigeddon time on BU
I hope you have your winter coats ready, I hear this year you will be shivering…lol.
Happy holidays to you and family.
@ Zoe (yes, I said it.. ;)),Yardbroom, Hants, Chris H, ROK, Bonny, Zion, JC, AC, Pat, Straight Talk, Kiki, TB and the rest of the BU family… Seasons Greetings and all the best for 2011!!
@ David..all the best to you and yours and may BU continue to educate and enlighten in future as it has done in the past.
…Now….where is my winter coat…heading North with the old girl 😉
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Georgie Porgie
@Technician | December 21, 2010 at 1:59 PM |
Man GP….leave this man nuh.
l et him speak his word.
==========
NOT A CHANCE
his junk will be debunked PERSISTENTLY AND PERENNIALLY
I dont have any coats or cloaks .
it has indeed been colder this year like it was last year in central FL
Happy holidays to you and family TOO .
On Sunday, 16 November, 1550, an edict was issued concerning holidays; it was a decree “respecting the abrogation of all festivals, … ” This ban on festival days (including Christmas) caused an uproar in certain quarters, and Calvin was reproached as the instigator of the action.-Philip E. Hughes, ed. and trans., The Register of the Company of Pastors in the Time of Calvin(Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1966),p. 130.
Opposition to ecclesiastical holidays remained in American Presbyterianism through the latter half of the nineteenth century. Speaking of the South after the Civil War, one historian notes: There was, however, no recognition of either Christmas or Easter in any of the Protestant churches, except the Episcopal and Lutheran. For a full generation after the Civil War the religious journals of the South mentioned Christmas only to observe that there was no reason to believe that Jesus was actually born on December 25; it was not recognized as a day of any religious significance in the Presbyterian Church. “If the exact date were known, or if some day (as December 25) had been agreed upon by common consent in the absence of any certain knowledge, we would still object to the observance of Christmas as a holy day. We object for many reasons, but at present mention only this one that experience has shown that the institution of holy days by human authority, however pure the intention, has invariably led to the disregard of the Holy day the Sabbath instituted by God.” In the following decade [the 1880s] this same journal sorrowed to see “a growing tendency [to introduce church festivals into Protestant denominations], even in our own branch of the church. True, it is by no means general, and has not been carried very far, but it is enough to awaken our concern and to call for that least a word of warning that the observance of Easter and Christmas is increasing amongst us….”~ Ernest Trice Thompson, Presbyterians in the South (Richmond: John Knox Press, 1973), Vol. 2, p. 434. Thompson’s citations are from the Southern Presbyterian (December 22, 1870; January 3, 1884).
In 1899, the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Churches was overtured to give a “pronounced and explicit deliverance” against the recognition of “Christmas and Easter as religious days.” Even at this late date, the answer came back in a solid manner: There is no warrant in Scripture for the observance of Christmas and Easter as holydays, rather the contrary (see Gal. 4:9-11; Col. 2:16-21), and such observance is contrary to the principles of the Reformed faith, conducive to will-worship, and not in harmony with the simplicity of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.~Cited in Morton H. Smith, How is the Gold Become Dim (Jackson, Mississippi: Steering Committee for a Continuing Presbyterian Church, etc., 1973), p. 98.
“Hathor and Aphis, the cow and bull gods of Egypt, were representatives of sun worship. Their worship was just one stage in the long Egyptian history of solar veneration. The golden calf at Mount Sinai is more than sufficient evidence to prove that the feast proclaimed was related to sun worship. The event at Mount Sinai was just one episode in the Satanic apostasy which began at the tower of Babel. The celebration of December 25th, originally proclaimed in honor of the birth of the sun god Mithra, can only be one of the final events in the long continuing saga of Satanic sun worship.” ~(Richard Rives, Too Long in the Sun, pp.130-131)
“It began first to be celebrated in the Roman Church about 360, and from there it spread to the Orient,” After he has mentioned “Saturnalia,” the Roman feast of joy, which began the seventeenth and ended the twenty-fourth of December with the “Sigillaria,” he continues: “At last the so-called ‘Brumalia,’ or the winter solstice, was celebrated the twenty-fifth of December. It was also called ‘deus natalis invicti solis’ (the birth feast of the unconquered sun), because in that season when the short days are gone, the sun again comes forth victorious from the gloomy night to travel on its orbit like an unconquered hero.” (C.A. Cornelius, Ecclesiastical History, part 2, p.91)
“The third one of the great feasts of the church, Christmas, doesn’t seem to be kept during the first three centuries. In contrast to it a memorial of Christ’s baptism was celebrated in the Orient as a revelation of his Messiahship and glory of his divinity called Epiphania, the sixth of January. This festival was, in Egypt, also given the meaning as a memorial of Christ’s birth, and in that way they had in a certain sense a substitute for Christmas, which had not yet begun.” (C.A. Cornelius, Ecclesiastical History, part 1, p.139).
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de hood
@ GP
I apologise for being off topic for this.
Doc,
I see that BFP is taking a turn in Doc Sparman’s tail. Have you seen the blog they have on the Sparman/Ismael issue?
“Lighted candles are foreign to the worship of God in the church of the New Testament scriptures. Yet, they too had their place in the worship of the sun god of paganism and in Christmas today. ” -Alexander Hislop, THE TWO BABYLONS, Loizeaux Bros., Neptune, N.J., 1959, p. 94 and 97
“…the divine child born at the winter solstice was born as a new incarnation of the great god (after that god had been cut in pieces…on purpose to revenge his death upon his murderers.) Now the great god, cut off in the midst of his power and glory, was symbolised as a huge tree, stripped of all his branches, and cut down almost to the ground. But the great Serpent, the symbol of the life restoring Aesculapius, twists itself around the dead stock…and lo, at its side sprouts a young tree – a tree of an entirely different kind, that is never to be cut down by a hostile power -…and thus shadowed forth the perpetuity and everlasting nature of his power, how that after having fallen before his enemies, he has risen triumphant over them all. Therefore, the 25th of December, the day that was observed in Rome as the day when the victorious god reappeared on earth was held at the Natalis invicti solis, ‘The birthday of the unconquered Sun.” -The Two Babylons, p. 98.
“The wassailing-bowl of Christmas had its precise counterpart in the ‘Drunken Festival’ of Babylon; The candles, in some parts of England, lighted at Christmas eve and used so long as the festive season lasts, were equally lighted by the pagans on the eve of the festival of the Babylonian god, to do honor to him, for it was one of the distinguishing peculiarities of his worship to have lighted candles on his alters. The Christmas tree, now so common among us, was equally common in pagan Rome and pagan Egypt. In Egypt that tree was the palm tree; in Rome it was the fir; the palm tree denoted the pagan Messiah, as Baal-Tamar; the fir referring to him as Baal-Berith…. On Christmas day the continental Saxons offered a boar in sacrifice to the sun, to propitiate her. In Rome a similar observance had evidently existed; for a boar formed a great article of Saturn, as appears form the words form Martial, ‘That boar will make you a good Saturnalia.’ Hence the boar’s head is still a standing dish in England at the Christmas dinner, when the reason of it is long since forgotten. Yea, the ‘Christmas goose’ and ‘yule cake’ were essential articles in the worship of the Babylonian Messiah, as that worship was practiced both in Egypt and at Rome.” (Alexander Hislop, The Two Babylons, pages 97, 100, 101)
“The interchange of presents between friends is alike characteristic of Christmas and the Saturnalia, and MUST HAVE BEEN ADOPTED BY CHRISTIANS FROM THE PAGANS, as the admonition of Tertullian plainly shows.” (Emphasis added). -Bibliotheca Sacra (vol 12 pp 153-155)
We object to the observance of Christmas by the church, because we believe that its original appointment as a Christian festival was not only unauthorized but wicked. It was foisted in among the observances of religion, along with many other things, for which there can be imagined no reason but a willingness to make a compromise with heathenism. The facts were simply these. The sagacity of the Romish church was not long in making the discovery that the chief obstacle in the way of an easy and universal embrace of Christianity, was the world’s natural dislike of the simplicity and purity of its doctrines and practices. The old heathens of the Empire were very loath to abandon their voluptuous and flesh-pleasing system for one which offered so little in return to gratify their appetite for display and self-indulgence. To the ecclesiastical Solomons of that time the idea occurred, that the work of conversion might be facilitated by rendering Christianity more attractive in its form, and more agreeable to the popular tastes. In a word, by compromising the matter, and carrying the gospel at least half-way in the work of conformation, to meet the reluctant idolaters~Excerpt of article titled “CHRISTMAS” from the THE REFORMED PRESBYTERIAN MAGAZINE, January, 1851.
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Georgie Porgie
No need to apologize
I will probably learn more from following that discussion because we are dealing here with an intellectual dunce behaving like a stuck record
CAUSE EVERYBODY IS STILL GOING TO BE ENJOYING THIER CHRISTMAS NO MATTER HOW THEY CELEBRATE IT OR DONT CELEBRATE IT
Thanks to all for the well wishes. All the best to everyone as well.
Your contributions continue to make BU a virtual space where people can visit and enjoy for different reasons.
Let us do it better in 2011.
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Zoe
@Technician, thanks man, may you and yours be guided in the New Year by Jesus’ wisdom in all your endeavors.
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Pat
@Dr. GP and TB
You are both wrong! The Herod Kings and Queens were Jews. In reading your abstracts and links, I am told that they converted to Judaism. Are you telling me that a Moslem or a Jew who converts to Christianity is not a Christian? Or a Pagan, or agnostic or non-believer who converts to Christianity is NOT a Christian? Get off of it boys. You cant have it both ways to justify your positions. They were either Jews or they were not. The line of David were heriditary Kings, the Herods were elected. My High School Teacher in Form Six Modern Studies beat you Bibliophiles hands down.
Best Wishes to my favourite people here on BU Bonny ! Technician BAFBFP. Island gal ! De hood J! JC! Rok Sargeant ! Scout! Hants. I wish I could invited you all to my home. However you are in my heart !I hope you enjoyed this blessed holiday season.
To my oh so favourite GP and Zoe Merry Xmas !
To TB; Keep your submission coming. Sorry but I can’t wish you Merry Xmas . You don’t celebrate
Happy Kwanza: Kiki
David I have enjoyed Bu and the various comments during the year Thanks. Merry Xmas
PAT
I am sorry to tell you that your High School Teacher in Form Six Modern Studies was certainly ignorant about Jewish Kings.
And please don’t put my name in the same category of this non Bible scholar, TB thank you. I tend to sift opinion from not one source, but from the many reliable commentaries that have passed the test of time amongst true Bible students, not the internet cutting and pasting rubbish..
Note I did not submit any links to you, but all the worthy Bible Scholars of repute will tell you that Herod was an Edomite, and that he did not practice Judaism Any serious scholar who has studied the Interetestamental Period ( a definite must for entering this discussion) will tell you too that Herod was a puppet king, set over a particular province in Israel by Rome. This was the modus operandi that the Romans copied from the Assyrians, Babylonians etc who preceded them. You will see a great example of this in Esther
Herod was not interested in the Jews or their religion but only in maintaining his position as a Roman despot, If Herod had power, he would have disposed of Jesus when Pilate sought to wash his hands from executing an innocent man. It did not matter to Herod, because Jesus was no threat to him. All he wanted was some one to provide him with sport.
I think I prefer to be guided by the writings of the several eminent Bible Scholars and Jewish historians like Josephus and Ahoroni et all than of an errant obviously unlearned Bajan school teacher from the sixties who was consulting Royal Reader. But you can take your pick. Jewish leaders of old were usually selected by God and anointed – not elected. C.f Moses, Aaron, Joshua, Saul, David, Solomon, etc
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Georgie Porgie
Pat
Here is a little bibliography that may be useful on the subject
THE FOUR HUNDRED SILENT YEARS, MALACHI TO MATTHEW By Harry Ironside. Loizeaux Press, Neptune, NJ
Brush Up Your Bible by Michael Macrone
The Visualized Bible (KJV), Supplementary material by H.L Wilmington, Tyndale House Publishers, Inc. Wheaton Illinois.
Keller, Werner. The Bible As History. Bantam Books, NY, NY, 1996
Unger, Merrill F. Archaeology of The Old Testament. Zondervan Press, Grand Rapids, MI
Frank, Harry Thomas. Discovering The Biblical World. Maplewood, Hammond, 1988.
Gordon Cyrus and Rendsburg Gary, The Bible And The Ancient Near East Norton Press, New York, NY
Jensen, Irvin.L, Joshua, A Self- Study Guide
Ancient Iraq Georges, Roux, Penguin Books, New York, NY
Everyday Life in Babylonia and Assyria (1965; reissued 1987); James Wellard, Babylon (also published as By the Waters of Babylon, 1972); and D.J. Wiseman, Nebuchadrezzar and Babylon (1985).
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Georgie Porgie
Pat
Did your high school teacher at the Modern share this outline with you on the Herods and the Intertestamental period under review?
Roman Period (63 B.C. to 70 A.D.)
1. Antipater, the Idumean
a. He was appointed by Julius Caesar in 47 B.C.
b. He managed the political affairs of the country,
but Hyrcanus lit remained the ecclesiastical ruler
of the Jews.
c. The Jews hated Antipater even though he secured for them many privileges by playing it safe in politics.
He always went with the winning power.
d. Throughout all the civil wars of the Caesars,
Antipater and his son were loyal to the Roman
general who dominated the East.
2. Herod the Great
a. He married Mariamne, granddaughter of John Hyrcanus.
b. He was appointed king in 40 B.C.
c. He was king at the birth time of Jesus.
d. In 42 B.C., after the battle of Philippi, Herod
succeeded his father, Antipater, as governor of
Judea.
e. He had gained favor with Cassius and Brutus, but
they had been defeated by Anthony and Octavian.
f. Herod then had to go to Rome to show his allegiance to Anthony and Octavian
g. The Jews had no love for Herod because he was an
Idumean and he imposed heavy taxes on them.
h. He was disposed to permit the Sadducees to enjoy
secular power along with their ecclesiastical power.
1. On other occasions he favored the Pharisees
because they were more inclined to restrict them-
selves to religious affairs and leave politics
alone.
j. The Jews were displeased when Herod built a theater in Jerusalem and encouraged pagan worship in his kingdom.
k. He made provision for the reconstruction of the
Temple. The Jews thought this was a noble act.
3. Division among Herod’s Sons
a. At the death of Herod the Great, his territory was
divided among his three sons.
b. Archelaus
(1) He received Judea, Samaria, and Idumea and
bore the title, ethnarch.
(2) In 6 A.D. he was deposed.
c. Roman Procurators.
(1) From 6 A.D. on, with the exception of 41-44
A.D., when Herod Agrippa I was king, this
governed by Roman procurators.
(2) Herod Antipas
(a) He became the tetrarch of Galilee and
Perea.
(b) He was responsible for the death of John
the Baptist.
(c) During his rule, Jesus began and con-
tinued his Galilean ministry.
(d) When Emperor Caius Caligula appointed
Agrippa I, the brother of Antipas’ wife,
Herodius, as the sucessor to Herod Phillip,
he gave him the title of king.
(e) Herodius persuaded Antipas to seek the
same honor for himself. Antipas was than banished to Gaul in A.D. 39.
(3) Herod Agrippa I
The emperor awarded the region of Galilee
and Perea to Agrippa I.
(4) Herod Phillip
(a) His share of his father’s will included
Iturea, Trachmonitis, Gaulanitis,
Auranitis, and Panias.
(b) It was in Caesarea-Philippi that Jesus
came into the territory of Herod Philip.
(c) He died in A.D. 34.
E. A.D. 6 to A.D. (6
a. This period saw no less than 14 procurators over
the Jews.
b. Most were poor administrators and were cruel in
carrying out their assignments.
c. Some of these who come before us in the New
Testament are:
(1) Pontius Pilate (26—36 A.D.) before whom Jesus
was tried.
(2) Felix (51—60 A.D.) who judged Paul’s case.
(3) Porcius Festus (60—62 A.D.) the one before
whom Paul made his appeal to Rome.
F. Titus, Roman General
a. Reactionary groups of Jews increased in number and open revolt broke out in A.D. 66.
b. In A.D. 70, under the leadership of the Roman
general, Titus, Jerusalem and the Temple of Herod
were destroyed.
Sargeant
Thanks. That was refreshing. She can sing almost as good as I can. LOL
And to all the BU fam’blee; those I love, those I hate to love and those I love to hate, have a blessed n wonderful Yuletide Season.
(pour one fa ma).
Shalommmmmmm.
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Sargeant
AC
Thanks for the best wishes, I hope you and yours have a wonderful holiday season also.
David thank you for providing this soapbox so all of us can raise our voice on any subject under the sun.
To all the other BU regulars (you know who you are and I won’t use names lest I forget someone). I wish you a safe and sober Xmas and I hope that you have a pleasant time as you enjoy the company of friends and family.
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BAFBFP
Happy Christmas to all ah wanna … ALL AH WANNA
ac
I got a fire place in fromt ah me right now… an’ dey gun have snow pun Christmas day too…!
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